After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I begin 
to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.  Seeing a class 
of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing useful made 
me wonder what A4e get paid good money for.  Did anyone notice the young 
girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm and believing 
the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored and 
disillusioned.

It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

"Bill"  wrote in message 
news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
> After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I begin 
> to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.  Seeing a 
> class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing 
> useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for.  Did anyone notice 
> the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm and 
> believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored and 
> disillusioned.
>
> It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>

Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and utter 
banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some 
bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the building 
for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the course" 
shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks they set. 
The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.

They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for 
poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work there is 
let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do 
agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to the 
point of lying to get people to apply.

It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been 
through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously contemplated 
killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing that 
now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a bonus 
and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact they 
will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better for 
A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the fee 
with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e are 
exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term 
worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push 
people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant 
battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless 
fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks 
time.

On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
> "Bill"  wrote in message
>
> news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I begin
> > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.  Seeing a
> > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for.  Did anyone notice
> > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm and
> > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored and
> > disillusioned.
>
> > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and utter
> banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
> bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the building
> for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the course"
> shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks they set.
> The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.
>
> They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for
> poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work there is
> let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
> agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to the
> point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
> through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously contemplated
> killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing that
> now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a bonus
> and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact they
> will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better for
> A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus  the fee
> with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e are
> exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
> worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push
> people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
> battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless
> fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
> time.

Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
£300 net.
The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
Hours, distance and minimum salary.
When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
job better than the guy I ended up training.
Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
nice filler.
Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
unable to work.

Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
keep people they don't like.

Martin  <><

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:50:06 +0100, Bill wrote:

> After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
> begin to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. 
> Seeing a class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
> nothing useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for.  Did
> anyone notice the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full
> of enthusiasm and believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few
> days later bored and disillusioned.
> 
> It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

Some of the schemes are appalling.

Luckily there's some better schemes around, especially if you avoid the 
mandatory providers.

Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists, and 
these are very different to the a4e type service.

"onearm"  wrote in message 
news:%sSlm.19720$RV1.16052@newsfe26.ams2...
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:50:06 +0100, Bill wrote:
>
>> After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
>> begin to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
>> Seeing a class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
>> nothing useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for.  Did
>> anyone notice the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full
>> of enthusiasm and believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few
>> days later bored and disillusioned.
>>
>> It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> Some of the schemes are appalling.

I have been to 3 different providers and all of them are the same, Same 
format as A4e, same bonus driven goals. Same mindless exercises.


>
> Luckily there's some better schemes around, especially if you avoid the
> mandatory providers.


I have yet to see a scheme that is not mandatory. The mental health trust 
that keeps writing to me tells me that if I do not attend, it could affect 
my benefit. I have not been to Shaw Trust yet, and I do not intend to go.


>
> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists, and
> these are very different to the a4e type service.


Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to create 
jobs where there are none? Anyway you will see what they are like in next 
weeks episode of BB when they will be dealing with the sick, should be a 
right laugh.

wrote in message 
news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-1588ee6c9151@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
> "Bill"  wrote in message
>
> news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I 
> > begin
> > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
> > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone 
> > notice
> > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm 
> > and
> > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored 
> > and
> > disillusioned.
>
> > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and utter
> banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
> bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the 
> building
> for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the 
> course"
> shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks they 
> set.
> The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.
>
> They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for
> poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work there 
> is
> let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
> agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to 
> the
> point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
> through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously 
> contemplated
> killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing 
> that
> now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a 
> bonus
> and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact 
> they
> will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better 
> for
> A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the 
> fee
> with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e 
> are
> exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
> worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push
> people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
> battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless
> fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
> time.

Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
£300 net.
The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
Hours, distance and minimum salary.
When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
job better than the guy I ended up training.
Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
nice filler.
Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
unable to work.

Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
keep people they don't like.

Martin  <><

>>>>>>>>>>>
There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of 
shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical poisoning on 
a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you would 
find some excuse to keep sending them in.

On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-1588ee6c9151@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bill"  wrote in message
>
> >news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
> > > begin
> > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
> > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
> > > notice
> > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm
> > > and
> > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored
> > > and
> > > disillusioned.
>
> > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> > Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and utter
> > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
> > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
> > building
> > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
> > course"
> > shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks they
> > set.
> > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.
>
> > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for
> > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work there
> > is
> > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
> > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to
> > the
> > point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
> > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> > contemplated
> > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing
> > that
> > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
> > bonus
> > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
> > they
> > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better
> > for
> > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus  the
> > fee
> > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e
> > are
> > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
> > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push
> > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
> > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless
> > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
> > time.
>
> Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
> £300 net.
> The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
> Hours, distance and minimum salary.
> When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
> Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
> job better than the guy I ended up training.
> Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
> contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
> permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
> nice filler.
> Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
> didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
> travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
> at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
> unable to work.
>
> Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
> not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
>
> Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
> because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
> staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
> keep people they don't like.
>
> Martin  <><
>
>
>
> There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
> shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
> If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical poisoning on
> a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you would
> find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
unemployment.
Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
plentiful.

Have you not heard of people dying because of mine work? Mineworkers
compensation scheme was going for several years.

Martin  <><

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:

> "onearm"  wrote in message
> news:%sSlm.19720$RV1.16052@newsfe26.ams2...
> 
>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
> 
> 
> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
> create jobs where there are none?

They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the 
people paying for the service.  It's evidence based, and part of the 
evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.

The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says 
they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else 
says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has 
time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not 
fit the client into available jobs.

"onearm"  wrote in message 
news:Z6Ylm.10390$Lm6.9352@newsfe21.ams2...
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:
>
>> "onearm"  wrote in message
>> news:%sSlm.19720$RV1.16052@newsfe26.ams2...
>>
>>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
>>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
>>
>>
>> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
>> create jobs where there are none?
>
> They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
> people paying for the service.  It's evidence based, and part of the
> evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.
>
> The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
> they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
> says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
> time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
> fit the client into available jobs.


Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out there? 
Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters from Shaw 
Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first appointment. 
They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers. "Work Focused 
Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that you participate". 
Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make money out of me. It 
goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored, personal support available 
to you, and to avoid any possible reduction in benefit". The same old 
bullshit threats you get from all course providers. "Because you did not 
attend, we are required to notify the benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.

This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they are 
well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they use, there 
is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New Deal. They 
want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of them.

Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those fuckers write a report saying 
you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are actually 
the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you will find 
yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.

wrote in message 
news:a1ea58e5-7adb-4c04-9816-9319539e95a9@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-1588ee6c9151@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bill"  wrote in message
>
> >news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
> > > begin
> > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
> > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
> > > notice
> > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm
> > > and
> > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored
> > > and
> > > disillusioned.
>
> > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> > Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and utter
> > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
> > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
> > building
> > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
> > course"
> > shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks they
> > set.
> > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.
>
> > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply 
> > for
> > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work 
> > there
> > is
> > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
> > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to
> > the
> > point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
> > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> > contemplated
> > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing
> > that
> > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
> > bonus
> > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
> > they
> > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better
> > for
> > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the
> > fee
> > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e
> > are
> > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
> > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they 
> > push
> > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
> > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and 
> > endless
> > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
> > time.
>
> Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
> £300 net.
> The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
> Hours, distance and minimum salary.
> When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
> Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
> job better than the guy I ended up training.
> Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
> contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
> permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
> nice filler.
> Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
> didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
> travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
> at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
> unable to work.
>
> Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
> not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
>
> Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
> because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
> staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
> keep people they don't like.
>
> Martin <><
>
>
>
> There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
> shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
> If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical poisoning 
> on
> a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you would
> find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
unemployment.
Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
plentiful.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit 
Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5 year 
contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.

On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:a1ea58e5-7adb-4c04-9816-9319539e95a9@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >  wrote in message
>
> >news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-1588ee6c9151@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com..> > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > > "Bill"  wrote in message
>
> > >news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
> > > > begin
> > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
> > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
> > > > notice
> > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm
> > > > and
> > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored
> > > > and
> > > > disillusioned.
>
> > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> > > Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and utter
> > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
> > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
> > > building
> > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
> > > course"
> > > shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks they
> > > set.
> > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.
>
> > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply
> > > for
> > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
> > > there
> > > is
> > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
> > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to
> > > the
> > > point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
> > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> > > contemplated
> > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing
> > > that
> > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
> > > bonus
> > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
> > > they
> > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better
> > > for
> > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus  the
> > > fee
> > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e
> > > are
> > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
> > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
> > > push
> > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
> > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
> > > endless
> > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
> > > time.
>
> > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
> > £300 net.
> > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
> > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
> > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
> > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
> > job better than the guy I ended up training.
> > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
> > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
> > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
> > nice filler.
> > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
> > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
> > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
> > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
> > unable to work.
>
> > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
> > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
>
> > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
> > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
> > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
> > keep people they don't like.
>
> > Martin <><
>
> > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
> > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
> > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical poisoning
> > on
> > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you would
> > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
> finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
> unemployment.
> Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
> plentiful.
>
>
>
> How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
> Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5 year
> contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
have been so many years without one.
Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
is hand you a perfect job.

I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
merely want some help but make the effort myself.

Martin  <><

wrote in message 
news:a7a86eac-e457-426c-a29f-2afa453f61d7@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:a1ea58e5-7adb-4c04-9816-9319539e95a9@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >  wrote in message
>
> >news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-1588ee6c9151@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > > "Bill"  wrote in message
>
> > >news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
> > > > begin
> > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing 
> > > > a
> > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
> > > > notice
> > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of 
> > > > enthusiasm
> > > > and
> > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later 
> > > > bored
> > > > and
> > > > disillusioned.
>
> > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> > > Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and 
> > > utter
> > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. 
> > > Some
> > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
> > > building
> > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
> > > course"
> > > shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks 
> > > they
> > > set.
> > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose 
> > > JSA.
>
> > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply
> > > for
> > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
> > > there
> > > is
> > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
> > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, 
> > > to
> > > the
> > > point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever 
> > > been
> > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> > > contemplated
> > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about 
> > > doing
> > > that
> > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
> > > bonus
> > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
> > > they
> > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is 
> > > better
> > > for
> > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + 
> > > the
> > > fee
> > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. 
> > > A4e
> > > are
> > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
> > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
> > > push
> > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
> > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
> > > endless
> > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 
> > > weeks
> > > time.
>
> > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
> > £300 net.
> > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
> > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
> > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
> > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
> > job better than the guy I ended up training.
> > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
> > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
> > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
> > nice filler.
> > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
> > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
> > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
> > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
> > unable to work.
>
> > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
> > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
>
> > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
> > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
> > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
> > keep people they don't like.
>
> > Martin <><
>
> > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
> > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
> > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical 
> > poisoning
> > on
> > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you 
> > would
> > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
> finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
> unemployment.
> Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
> plentiful.
>
>
>
> How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
> Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5 year
> contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
have been so many years without one.
Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
is hand you a perfect job.

I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
merely want some help but make the effort myself.

Martin  <><

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid 
hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?

The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for work, 
everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently Shaw 
Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job 
vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am between 
courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as 
opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to. that 
would be nice for a change.

On 29 Aug, 17:43, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:a7a86eac-e457-426c-a29f-2afa453f61d7@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >  wrote in message
>
> >news:a1ea58e5-7adb-4c04-9816-9319539e95a9@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com..> > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > >  wrote in message
>
> > >news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-1588ee6c9151@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > > > "Bill"  wrote in message
>
> > > >news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
> > > > > begin
> > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing
> > > > > a
> > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
> > > > > notice
> > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of
> > > > > enthusiasm
> > > > > and
> > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later
> > > > > bored
> > > > > and
> > > > > disillusioned.
>
> > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> > > > Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and
> > > > utter
> > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together.
> > > > Some
> > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
> > > > building
> > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
> > > > course"
> > > > shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks
> > > > they
> > > > set.
> > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose
> > > > JSA.
>
> > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply
> > > > for
> > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
> > > > there
> > > > is
> > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
> > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering> > > > to
> > > > the
> > > > point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever
> > > > been
> > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> > > > contemplated
> > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about
> > > > doing
> > > > that
> > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
> > > > bonus
> > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
> > > > they
> > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is
> > > > better
> > > > for
> > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus 
> > > > the
> > > > fee
> > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job.
> > > > A4e
> > > > are
> > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
> > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
> > > > push
> > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
> > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
> > > > endless
> > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4
> > > > weeks
> > > > time.
>
> > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
> > > £300 net.
> > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
> > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
> > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
> > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
> > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
> > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
> > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
> > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
> > > nice filler.
> > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
> > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
> > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
> > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
> > > unable to work.
>
> > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
> > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
>
> > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
> > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
> > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
> > > keep people they don't like.
>
> > > Martin <><
>
> > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
> > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
> > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical
> > > poisoning
> > > on
> > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you
> > > would
> > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
> > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
> > unemployment.
> > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
> > plentiful.
>
> > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
> > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5 year
> > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
> have been so many years without one.
> Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
> being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
> is hand you a perfect job.
>
> I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
> merely want some help but make the effort myself.
>
> Martin  <><
>
>
>
> And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid
> hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?
>
> The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for work> everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently Shaw
> Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job
> vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am between
> courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as
> opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to. that
> would be nice for a change.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

LOL. You really believe you have no say in looking for work?

With that belief, you'll always be under government schemes such as
A4e, jobcentre and benefits.
Then onto retirement pension when you reach retirement age, and you
can then complain about lack of money and lack of help for
pensioners.  :)

Martin  <><

wrote in message 
news:2638f13c-2659-4afe-bfef-470ffbc83446@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
On 29 Aug, 17:43, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:a7a86eac-e457-426c-a29f-2afa453f61d7@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >  wrote in message
>
> >news:a1ea58e5-7adb-4c04-9816-9319539e95a9@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > >  wrote in message
>
> > >news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-1588ee6c9151@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > > > "Bill"  wrote in message
>
> > > >news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters 
> > > > > I
> > > > > begin
> > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. 
> > > > > Seeing
> > > > > a
> > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing 
> > > > > nothing
> > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
> > > > > notice
> > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of
> > > > > enthusiasm
> > > > > and
> > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later
> > > > > bored
> > > > > and
> > > > > disillusioned.
>
> > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> > > > Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and
> > > > utter
> > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together.
> > > > Some
> > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
> > > > building
> > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
> > > > course"
> > > > shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks
> > > > they
> > > > set.
> > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose
> > > > JSA.
>
> > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to 
> > > > apply
> > > > for
> > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
> > > > there
> > > > is
> > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to 
> > > > do
> > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering,
> > > > to
> > > > the
> > > > point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever
> > > > been
> > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> > > > contemplated
> > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about
> > > > doing
> > > > that
> > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get 
> > > > a
> > > > bonus
> > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In 
> > > > fact
> > > > they
> > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is
> > > > better
> > > > for
> > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus +
> > > > the
> > > > fee
> > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job.
> > > > A4e
> > > > are
> > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long 
> > > > term
> > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
> > > > push
> > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a 
> > > > constant
> > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
> > > > endless
> > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4
> > > > weeks
> > > > time.
>
> > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
> > > £300 net.
> > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
> > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
> > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
> > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
> > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
> > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
> > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
> > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
> > > nice filler.
> > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
> > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
> > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
> > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
> > > unable to work.
>
> > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
> > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
>
> > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
> > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
> > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
> > > keep people they don't like.
>
> > > Martin <><
>
> > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile 
> > > of
> > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
> > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical
> > > poisoning
> > > on
> > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you
> > > would
> > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
> > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
> > unemployment.
> > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
> > plentiful.
>
> > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
> > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5 
> > year
> > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
> have been so many years without one.
> Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
> being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
> is hand you a perfect job.
>
> I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
> merely want some help but make the effort myself.
>
> Martin <><
>
>
>
> And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid
> hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?
>
> The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for work,
> everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently 
> Shaw
> Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job
> vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am between
> courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as
> opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to. that
> would be nice for a change.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

LOL. You really believe you have no say in looking for work?

With that belief, you'll always be under government schemes such as
A4e, jobcentre and benefits.
Martin  <><


>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What are you saying, you mean they might not find me a job ever, not even 
charity work! Christ on a bike, this sounds serious, all my sellotaping 
skills gone to waste, "for nowt" as they say in Hull. There must be someone 
out there who needs a skilled sellotaper.

On 29 Aug, 18:23, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:2638f13c-2659-4afe-bfef-470ffbc83446@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
> On 29 Aug, 17:43, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >  wrote in message
>
> >news:a7a86eac-e457-426c-a29f-2afa453f61d7@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> > On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > >  wrote in message
>
> > >news:a1ea58e5-7adb-4c04-9816-9319539e95a9@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> > > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > > >  wrote in message
>
> > > >news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-1588ee6c9151@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > > > > "Bill"  wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > begin
> > > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
> > > > > > Seeing
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
> > > > > > nothing
> > > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
> > > > > > notice
> > > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of
> > > > > > enthusiasm
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later
> > > > > > bored
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > disillusioned.
>
> > > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> > > > > Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and
> > > > > utter
> > > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together> > > > > Some
> > > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
> > > > > building
> > > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
> > > > > course"
> > > > > shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks
> > > > > they
> > > > > set.
> > > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose
> > > > > JSA.
>
> > > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to
> > > > > apply
> > > > > for
> > > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
> > > > > there
> > > > > is
> > > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> > > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to
> > > > > do
> > > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering,
> > > > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> > > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever
> > > > > been
> > > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> > > > > contemplated
> > > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about
> > > > > doing
> > > > > that
> > > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> > > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get
> > > > > a
> > > > > bonus
> > > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In
> > > > > fact
> > > > > they
> > > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is
> > > > > better
> > > > > for
> > > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus> > > > > the
> > > > > fee
> > > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job.
> > > > > A4e
> > > > > are
> > > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long
> > > > > term
> > > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
> > > > > push
> > > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a
> > > > > constant
> > > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
> > > > > endless
> > > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4
> > > > > weeks
> > > > > time.
>
> > > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
> > > > £300 net.
> > > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
> > > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
> > > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
> > > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
> > > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
> > > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
> > > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
> > > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
> > > > nice filler.
> > > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
> > > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
> > > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
> > > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
> > > > unable to work.
>
> > > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
> > > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
>
> > > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
> > > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
> > > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
> > > > keep people they don't like.
>
> > > > Martin <><
>
> > > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile
> > > > of
> > > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
> > > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical
> > > > poisoning
> > > > on
> > > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you
> > > > would
> > > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
> > > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
> > > unemployment.
> > > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
> > > plentiful.
>
> > > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
> > > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5
> > > year
> > > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
> > have been so many years without one.
> > Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
> > being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
> > is hand you a perfect job.
>
> > I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
> > merely want some help but make the effort myself.
>
> > Martin <><
>
> > And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid
> > hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?
>
> > The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for work,
> > everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently
> > Shaw
> > Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job
> > vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am between
> > courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as
> > opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to. that
> > would be nice for a change.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> LOL. You really believe you have no say in looking for work?
>
> With that belief, you'll always be under government schemes such as
> A4e, jobcentre and benefits.
> Martin  <><
>
>
>
> What are you saying, you mean they might not find me a job ever, not even
> charity work! Christ on a bike, this sounds serious, all my sellotaping
> skills gone to waste, "for nowt" as they say in Hull. There must be someone
> out there who needs a skilled sellotaper.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, they might never find you a job you will take at all.
And for some insane reason, charities tend to want people willing to
work as employees......

Martin  <><

Niteawk wrote:
> 
> "onearm"  wrote in message 
> news:Z6Ylm.10390$Lm6.9352@newsfe21.ams2...
>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:
>>
>>> "onearm"  wrote in message
>>> news:%sSlm.19720$RV1.16052@newsfe26.ams2...
>>>
>>>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
>>>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
>>>
>>>
>>> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
>>> create jobs where there are none?
>>
>> They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
>> people paying for the service.  It's evidence based, and part of the
>> evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.
>>
>> The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
>> they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
>> says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
>> time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
>> fit the client into available jobs.
> 
> 
> Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out 
> there? Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters 
> from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first 
> appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers. 
> "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that 
> you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make 
> money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored, 
> personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction 
> in benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course 
> providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the 
> benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.
> 
> This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they 
> are well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they 
> use, there is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New 
> Deal. They want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of 
> them.
> 
> Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those fuckers write a report 
> saying you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are 
> actually the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you 
> will find yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.

Unfortunately Shaw Trust seem to have come on board the Golden Dream of 
the Government and are now providing services they weren't set up to 
provide. They have been a long time provider of help to people with 
disabilities, both physical and mental, and have done this well in the 
past but now have been lured by the promise of £££s of Government 
funding. They have sold out, in a way, and that is a sad situation.

I hope they go back to their roots and help less people but in a more 
individual way.

"Robbie"  wrote in message 
news:7fte27F2ngnkcU1@mid.individual.net...
> Niteawk wrote:
>>
>> "onearm"  wrote in message 
>> news:Z6Ylm.10390$Lm6.9352@newsfe21.ams2...
>>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:
>>>
>>>> "onearm"  wrote in message
>>>> news:%sSlm.19720$RV1.16052@newsfe26.ams2...
>>>>
>>>>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
>>>>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
>>>> create jobs where there are none?
>>>
>>> They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
>>> people paying for the service.  It's evidence based, and part of the
>>> evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.
>>>
>>> The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
>>> they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
>>> says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
>>> time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
>>> fit the client into available jobs.
>>
>>
>> Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out 
>> there? Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters 
>> from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first 
>> appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers. 
>> "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that 
>> you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make 
>> money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored, 
>> personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction in 
>> benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course 
>> providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the 
>> benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.
>>
>> This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they are 
>> well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they use, 
>> there is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New Deal. 
>> They want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of them.
>>
>> Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those fuckers write a report saying 
>> you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are actually 
>> the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you will find 
>> yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.
>
> Unfortunately Shaw Trust seem to have come on board the Golden Dream of 
> the Government and are now providing services they weren't set up to 
> provide. They have been a long time provider of help to people with 
> disabilities, both physical and mental, and have done this well in the 
> past but now have been lured by the promise of £££s of Government funding. 
> They have sold out, in a way, and that is a sad situation.


The reports they write are used in evidence to deny IB/ESA. That is what 
they are getting paid for. Whores that would sell their own mothers 
basically.



>
> I hope they go back to their roots and help less people but in a more 
> individual way.

As you say, they have sold out. All this crap is not about helping. If it 
was, they would simply let people choose for themselves. I cant go out and 
demand that someone does something for me, threaten them with some form of 
BS penalty, and then claim I am helping them, but that is what those looney 
bastards are doing.

I hope I never have to help them out, somehow I dont think they would like 
it ;)

wrote in message 
news:a7cbf8dd-86f8-40fc-b2cb-e5fa962c9f4b@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
On 29 Aug, 18:23, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:2638f13c-2659-4afe-bfef-470ffbc83446@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
> On 29 Aug, 17:43, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >  wrote in message
>
> >news:a7a86eac-e457-426c-a29f-2afa453f61d7@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> > On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > >  wrote in message
>
> > >news:a1ea58e5-7adb-4c04-9816-9319539e95a9@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> > > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > > >  wrote in message
>
> > > >news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-1588ee6c9151@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > > > > "Bill"  wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit 
> > > > > > Busters
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > begin
> > > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
> > > > > > Seeing
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
> > > > > > nothing
> > > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did 
> > > > > > anyone
> > > > > > notice
> > > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of
> > > > > > enthusiasm
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later
> > > > > > bored
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > disillusioned.
>
> > > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> > > > > Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and
> > > > > utter
> > > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together.
> > > > > Some
> > > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving 
> > > > > the
> > > > > building
> > > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off 
> > > > > the
> > > > > course"
> > > > > shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks
> > > > > they
> > > > > set.
> > > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose
> > > > > JSA.
>
> > > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to
> > > > > apply
> > > > > for
> > > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours 
> > > > > work
> > > > > there
> > > > > is
> > > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> > > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes 
> > > > > to
> > > > > do
> > > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in 
> > > > > offering,
> > > > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> > > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever
> > > > > been
> > > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> > > > > contemplated
> > > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about
> > > > > doing
> > > > > that
> > > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> > > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will 
> > > > > get
> > > > > a
> > > > > bonus
> > > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In
> > > > > fact
> > > > > they
> > > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is
> > > > > better
> > > > > for
> > > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus 
> > > > > +
> > > > > the
> > > > > fee
> > > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp 
> > > > > job.
> > > > > A4e
> > > > > are
> > > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long
> > > > > term
> > > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why 
> > > > > they
> > > > > push
> > > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a
> > > > > constant
> > > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
> > > > > endless
> > > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4
> > > > > weeks
> > > > > time.
>
> > > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to 
> > > > earn
> > > > £300 net.
> > > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
> > > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
> > > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
> > > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing 
> > > > the
> > > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
> > > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
> > > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
> > > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
> > > > nice filler.
> > > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
> > > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
> > > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
> > > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
> > > > unable to work.
>
> > > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. 
> > > > If
> > > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
>
> > > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
> > > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
> > > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have 
> > > > to
> > > > keep people they don't like.
>
> > > > Martin <><
>
> > > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a 
> > > > pile
> > > > of
> > > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
> > > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical
> > > > poisoning
> > > > on
> > > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you
> > > > would
> > > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
> > > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
> > > unemployment.
> > > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
> > > plentiful.
>
> > > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch 
> > > Benefit
> > > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5
> > > year
> > > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
> > have been so many years without one.
> > Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
> > being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
> > is hand you a perfect job.
>
> > I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
> > merely want some help but make the effort myself.
>
> > Martin <><
>
> > And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid
> > hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?
>
> > The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for 
> > work,
> > everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently
> > Shaw
> > Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job
> > vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am 
> > between
> > courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as
> > opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to. 
> > that
> > would be nice for a change.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> LOL. You really believe you have no say in looking for work?
>
> With that belief, you'll always be under government schemes such as
> A4e, jobcentre and benefits.
> Martin <><
>
>
>
> What are you saying, you mean they might not find me a job ever, not even
> charity work! Christ on a bike, this sounds serious, all my sellotaping
> skills gone to waste, "for nowt" as they say in Hull. There must be 
> someone
> out there who needs a skilled sellotaper.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, they might never find you a job you will take at all.
And for some insane reason, charities tend to want people willing to
work as employees......

Martin  <><

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The only reason they want people regardless is, they are making a fortune 
out of the unemployed for doing fuck all.

On 29 Aug, 20:32, Robbie  wrote:
> Niteawk wrote:
>
> > "onearm"  wrote in message
> >news:Z6Ylm.10390$Lm6.9352@newsfe21.ams2...
> >> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 퍝, Niteawk wrote:
>
> >>> "onearm"  wrote in message
> >>>news:%sSlm.19720$RV1.16052@newsfe26.ams2...
>
> >>>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
> >>>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
>
> >>> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
> >>> create jobs where there are none?
>
> >> They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
> >> people paying for the service.  It's evidence based, and part of the
> >> evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.
>
> >> The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
> >> they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
> >> says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
> >> time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
> >> fit the client into available jobs.
>
> > Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out
> > there? Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters
> > from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first
> > appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers.
> > "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that
> > you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make
> > money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored,
> > personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction
> > in benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course
> > providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the
> > benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.
>
> > This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they
> > are well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they
> > use, there is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New
> > Deal. They want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of
> > them.
>
> > Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those fuckers write a report
> > saying you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are
> > actually the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you
> > will find yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.
>
> Unfortunately Shaw Trust seem to have come on board the Golden Dream of
> the Government and are now providing services they weren't set up to
> provide. They have been a long time provider of help to people with
> disabilities, both physical and mental, and have done this well in the
> past but now have been lured by the promise of £££s of Government
> funding. They have sold out, in a way, and that is a sad situation.
>
> I hope they go back to their roots and help less people but in a more
> individual way.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Government funding is a funny thing. You either meet all the criteria
and do what the contract says. Or you simply don't have the money.
If necessary they can subsidise the government with the contract (all
charities can) in order to produce service beyond the minimum needed.
Though always limited funds for doing that.
I rather like them, even now. Then again, they helped me a lot. And
continue to help local disabled people in my area.

Martin  <><

On 29 Aug, 23:34, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:a7cbf8dd-86f8-40fc-b2cb-e5fa962c9f4b@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
> On 29 Aug, 18:23, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >  wrote in message
>
> >news:2638f13c-2659-4afe-bfef-470ffbc83446@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com..> > On 29 Aug, 17:43, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > >  wrote in message
>
> > >news:a7a86eac-e457-426c-a29f-2afa453f61d7@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com.> > > On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > > >  wrote in message
>
> > > >news:a1ea58e5-7adb-4c04-9816-9319539e95a9@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > > > >  wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-1588ee6c9151@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> > > > > > "Bill"  wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:7fq240F2lv84aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit
> > > > > > > Busters
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > begin
> > > > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
> > > > > > > Seeing
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
> > > > > > > nothing
> > > > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did
> > > > > > > anyone
> > > > > > > notice
> > > > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of
> > > > > > > enthusiasm
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later
> > > > > > > bored
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > disillusioned.
>
> > > > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> > > > > > Thats right, although edited to fuck, you could see the sheer and
> > > > > > utter
> > > > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together.
> > > > > > Some
> > > > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > building
> > > > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > course"
> > > > > > shit if you do not act like a cunt and complete the childish tasks
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > set.
> > > > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose
> > > > > > JSA.
>
> > > > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to
> > > > > > apply
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours
> > > > > > work
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> > > > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in
> > > > > > offering,
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> > > > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> > > > > > contemplated
> > > > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about
> > > > > > doing
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> > > > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > bonus
> > > > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In
> > > > > > fact
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is
> > > > > > better
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > fee
> > > > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp
> > > > > > job.
> > > > > > A4e
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long
> > > > > > term
> > > > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > push
> > > > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a
> > > > > > constant
> > > > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
> > > > > > endless
> > > > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4
> > > > > > weeks
> > > > > > time.
>
> > > > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to
> > > > > earn
> > > > > £300 net.
> > > > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
> > > > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
> > > > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
> > > > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing
> > > > > the
> > > > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
> > > > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
> > > > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
> > > > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
> > > > > nice filler.
> > > > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
> > > > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
> > > > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
> > > > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
> > > > > unable to work.
>
> > > > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies> > > > > If
> > > > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
>
> > > > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
> > > > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
> > > > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have
> > > > > to
> > > > > keep people they don't like.
>
> > > > > Martin <><
>
> > > > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a
> > > > > pile
> > > > > of
> > > > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
> > > > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical
> > > > > poisoning
> > > > > on
> > > > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you
> > > > > would
> > > > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
> > > > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
> > > > unemployment.
> > > > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
> > > > plentiful.
>
> > > > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch
> > > > Benefit
> > > > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5
> > > > year
> > > > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
> > > have been so many years without one.
> > > Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
> > > being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
> > > is hand you a perfect job.
>
> > > I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
> > > merely want some help but make the effort myself.
>
> > > Martin <><
>
> > > And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid
> > > hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?
>
> > > The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for
> > > work,
> > > everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently
> > > Shaw
> > > Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job
> > > vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am
> > > between
> > > courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as
> > > opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to.
> > > that
> > > would be nice for a change.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > LOL. You really believe you have no say in looking for work?
>
> > With that belief, you'll always be under government schemes such as
> > A4e, jobcentre and benefits.
> > Martin <><
>
> > What are you saying, you mean they might not find me a job ever, not even
> > charity work! Christ on a bike, this sounds serious, all my sellotaping
> > skills gone to waste, "for nowt" as they say in Hull. There must be
> > someone
> > out there who needs a skilled sellotaper.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> No, they might never find you a job you will take at all.
> And for some insane reason, charities tend to want people willing to
> work as employees......
>
> Martin  <><
>
>
>
> The only reason they want people regardless is, they are making a fortune
> out of the unemployed for doing fuck all.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

LOL.
Thats besides the costs in training, criminal checks (charity has to
pay for) and lack of government money. Some of these charities are
getting £30 a person for over £100 in costs!

Martin  <><

mart2306@hotmail.com wrote:
> On 29 Aug, 20:32, Robbie  wrote:
>> Niteawk wrote:
>>
>>> "onearm"  wrote in message
>>> news:Z6Ylm.10390$Lm6.9352@newsfe21.ams2...
>>>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:
>>>>> "onearm"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:%sSlm.19720$RV1.16052@newsfe26.ams2...
>>>>>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
>>>>>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
>>>>> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
>>>>> create jobs where there are none?
>>>> They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
>>>> people paying for the service.  It's evidence based, and part of the
>>>> evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.
>>>> The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
>>>> they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
>>>> says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
>>>> time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
>>>> fit the client into available jobs.
>>> Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out
>>> there? Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters
>>> from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first
>>> appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers.
>>> "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that
>>> you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make
>>> money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored,
>>> personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction
>>> in benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course
>>> providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the
>>> benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.
>>> This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they
>>> are well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they
>>> use, there is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New
>>> Deal. They want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of
>>> them.
>>> Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those fuckers write a report
>>> saying you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are
>>> actually the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you
>>> will find yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.
>> Unfortunately Shaw Trust seem to have come on board the Golden Dream of
>> the Government and are now providing services they weren't set up to
>> provide. They have been a long time provider of help to people with
>> disabilities, both physical and mental, and have done this well in the
>> past but now have been lured by the promise of £££s of Government
>> funding. They have sold out, in a way, and that is a sad situation.
>>
>> I hope they go back to their roots and help less people but in a more
>> individual way.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Government funding is a funny thing. You either meet all the criteria
> and do what the contract says. Or you simply don't have the money.
> If necessary they can subsidise the government with the contract (all
> charities can) in order to produce service beyond the minimum needed.
> Though always limited funds for doing that.
> I rather like them, even now. Then again, they helped me a lot. And
> continue to help local disabled people in my area.
> 
> Martin  <><

I depends what the help is for. For the lowest common denominator (ie 
the cheapest - the long term unemployed who are single or married 
without kids) it will be to just provide X results in Y time. It's 
highly unlikely the schemes will be any good. A4e will have targets to 
reach but those targets will simply be connected to getting numbers off 
the dole.

On 30 Aug, 10:50, Robbie  wrote:
> mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On 29 Aug, 20:32, Robbie  wrote:
> >> Niteawk wrote:
>
> >>> "onearm"  wrote in message
> >>>news:Z6Ylm.10390$Lm6.9352@newsfe21.ams2...
> >>>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 퍝, Niteawk wrote:
> >>>>> "onearm"  wrote in message
> >>>>>news:%sSlm.19720$RV1.16052@newsfe26.ams2...
> >>>>>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
> >>>>>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
> >>>>> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
> >>>>> create jobs where there are none?
> >>>> They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
> >>>> people paying for the service.  It's evidence based, and part of the
> >>>> evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.
> >>>> The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
> >>>> they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
> >>>> says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
> >>>> time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
> >>>> fit the client into available jobs.
> >>> Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out
> >>> there? Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters
> >>> from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first
> >>> appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers.
> >>> "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that
> >>> you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make
> >>> money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored,
> >>> personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction
> >>> in benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course
> >>> providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the
> >>> benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.
> >>> This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they
> >>> are well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they
> >>> use, there is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New
> >>> Deal. They want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of
> >>> them.
> >>> Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those fuckers write a report
> >>> saying you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are
> >>> actually the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you
> >>> will find yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.
> >> Unfortunately Shaw Trust seem to have come on board the Golden Dream of
> >> the Government and are now providing services they weren't set up to
> >> provide. They have been a long time provider of help to people with
> >> disabilities, both physical and mental, and have done this well in the
> >> past but now have been lured by the promise of £££s of Government
> >> funding. They have sold out, in a way, and that is a sad situation.
>
> >> I hope they go back to their roots and help less people but in a more
> >> individual way.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Government funding is a funny thing. You either meet all the criteria
> > and do what the contract says. Or you simply don't have the money.
> > If necessary they can subsidise the government with the contract (all
> > charities can) in order to produce service beyond the minimum needed.
> > Though always limited funds for doing that.
> > I rather like them, even now. Then again, they helped me a lot. And
> > continue to help local disabled people in my area.
>
> > Martin  <><
>
> I depends what the help is for. For the lowest common denominator (ie
> the cheapest - the long term unemployed who are single or married
> without kids) it will be to just provide X results in Y time. It's
> highly unlikely the schemes will be any good. A4e will have targets to
> reach but those targets will simply be connected to getting numbers off
> the dole.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Off the dole figures until after the next election may be the best
target for the government. After that, doesn't matter to them for a
few years more. And if they lose, can be used as a club against the
new government for a while.

One scheme that springs to mind is the Future Jobs Fund. Announced in
the last budget as I recall, it guarantees work or training for all
18-24 year olds (about 150,000 expected on the scheme) who have been
unemployed more than a certain time (12 months?).
They get a wage from the government for 6 months, minimum being NMW
for minimum of 25 hours as I recall (can be more, there is budget for
more). Hours dependant on the companies and charities taking on the
'recruits'.
I put in for 3 full timers as part of my local council's submission
for the fund.

6 months is maybe enough time to get money to extend employment. Or
maybe not.

The scheme starts rollout in October. Figure 6 months from then, if
people stay in the placement for the full 6 months, brings us to
sometime in April 2010. Which could then be too late for these 150,000
youngsters to be counted on the published unemployment figures before
the next election.

Martin  <><

mart2306@hotmail.com wrote:
> On 30 Aug, 10:50, Robbie  wrote:
>> mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On 29 Aug, 20:32, Robbie  wrote:
>>>> Niteawk wrote:
>>>>> "onearm"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:Z6Ylm.10390$Lm6.9352@newsfe21.ams2...
>>>>>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:
>>>>>>> "onearm"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:%sSlm.19720$RV1.16052@newsfe26.ams2...
>>>>>>>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
>>>>>>>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
>>>>>>> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
>>>>>>> create jobs where there are none?
>>>>>> They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
>>>>>> people paying for the service.  It's evidence based, and part of the
>>>>>> evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.
>>>>>> The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
>>>>>> they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
>>>>>> says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
>>>>>> time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
>>>>>> fit the client into available jobs.
>>>>> Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out
>>>>> there? Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters
>>>>> from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first
>>>>> appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers.
>>>>> "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that
>>>>> you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make
>>>>> money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored,
>>>>> personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction
>>>>> in benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course
>>>>> providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the
>>>>> benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.
>>>>> This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they
>>>>> are well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they
>>>>> use, there is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New
>>>>> Deal. They want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of
>>>>> them.
>>>>> Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those fuckers write a report
>>>>> saying you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are
>>>>> actually the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you
>>>>> will find yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.
>>>> Unfortunately Shaw Trust seem to have come on board the Golden Dream of
>>>> the Government and are now providing services they weren't set up to
>>>> provide. They have been a long time provider of help to people with
>>>> disabilities, both physical and mental, and have done this well in the
>>>> past but now have been lured by the promise of £££s of Government
>>>> funding. They have sold out, in a way, and that is a sad situation.
>>>> I hope they go back to their roots and help less people but in a more
>>>> individual way.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Government funding is a funny thing. You either meet all the criteria
>>> and do what the contract says. Or you simply don't have the money.
>>> If necessary they can subsidise the government with the contract (all
>>> charities can) in order to produce service beyond the minimum needed.
>>> Though always limited funds for doing that.
>>> I rather like them, even now. Then again, they helped me a lot. And
>>> continue to help local disabled people in my area.
>>> Martin  <><
>> I depends what the help is for. For the lowest common denominator (ie
>> the cheapest - the long term unemployed who are single or married
>> without kids) it will be to just provide X results in Y time. It's
>> highly unlikely the schemes will be any good. A4e will have targets to
>> reach but those targets will simply be connected to getting numbers off
>> the dole.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Off the dole figures until after the next election may be the best
> target for the government. After that, doesn't matter to them for a
> few years more. And if they lose, can be used as a club against the
> new government for a while.
> 
> One scheme that springs to mind is the Future Jobs Fund. Announced in
> the last budget as I recall, it guarantees work or training for all
> 18-24 year olds (about 150,000 expected on the scheme) who have been
> unemployed more than a certain time (12 months?).
> They get a wage from the government for 6 months, minimum being NMW
> for minimum of 25 hours as I recall (can be more, there is budget for
> more). Hours dependant on the companies and charities taking on the
> 'recruits'.
> I put in for 3 full timers as part of my local council's submission
> for the fund.
> 
> 6 months is maybe enough time to get money to extend employment. Or
> maybe not.
> 
> The scheme starts rollout in October. Figure 6 months from then, if
> people stay in the placement for the full 6 months, brings us to
> sometime in April 2010. Which could then be too late for these 150,000
> youngsters to be counted on the published unemployment figures before
> the next election.
> 
> Martin  <><

as unemployment will probably be a million more this time next year it 
may be too little, too late...

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:15:00 +0100, Niteawk wrote:

> Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it,

I'm specifically talking about NHS mental health trusts - specialist 
providers of secondary health care to people with severe or enduring 
mental health problems. 

> Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters
> from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first
> appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers.
> "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that
> you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make
> money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored,
> personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction
> in benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course
> providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the
> benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.

That doesn't sound good.  You could, if you were at all interested, ask 
them if they were working the IPS model as specified by the Sainsbury 
Centre?  (The website has a lot of useful information.  The IPS model is 
pretty strict about not forcing people into schemes, and only helping 
people if they ask for it. (It's also strict that anyone who asks is 
allowed on the scheme.  A person is ready when that person says they're 
ready, not before and not after.))

"onearm"  wrote in message 
news:5vVmm.42281$tD4.40382@newsfe07.ams2...
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:15:00 +0100, Niteawk wrote:
>
>> Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it,
>
> I'm specifically talking about NHS mental health trusts - specialist
> providers of secondary health care to people with severe or enduring
> mental health problems.
>
>> Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters
>> from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first
>> appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers.
>> "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that
>> you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make
>> money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored,
>> personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction
>> in benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course
>> providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the
>> benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.
>
> That doesn't sound good.  You could, if you were at all interested, ask
> them if they were working the IPS model as specified by the Sainsbury
> Centre?  (The website has a lot of useful information.  The IPS model is
> pretty strict about not forcing people into schemes, and only helping
> people if they ask for it. (It's also strict that anyone who asks is
> allowed on the scheme.  A person is ready when that person says they're
> ready, not before and not after.))

Well I did not ask for their help. I might have gone along if they sent a 
letter saying we are here if you need us, call and make an appointment when 
and if you feel up to it. What I got was letters threatening me with 
bullshit if I did not attend etc. Fuck them, I have been signed off by my 
GP, and there is fuck all they can do about it.

What I would like to know is, how Shaw Trust got my details in the first 
place? I think the JC must have contacted them.

On 31 Aug, 22:59, "Niteawk"  wrote:
> "onearm"  wrote in message
>
> news:5vVmm.42281$tD4.40382@newsfe07.ams2...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:15:00 퍝, Niteawk wrote:
>
> >> Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it,
>
> > I'm specifically talking about NHS mental health trusts - specialist
> > providers of secondary health care to people with severe or enduring
> > mental health problems.
>
> >> Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters
> >> from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first
> >> appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers.
> >> "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that
> >> you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make
> >> money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored,
> >> personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction
> >> in benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course
> >> providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the
> >> benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.
>
> > That doesn't sound good.  You could, if you were at all interested, ask
> > them if they were working the IPS model as specified by the Sainsbury
> > Centre?  (The website has a lot of useful information.  The IPS model is
> > pretty strict about not forcing people into schemes, and only helping
> > people if they ask for it. (It's also strict that anyone who asks is
> > allowed on the scheme.  A person is ready when that person says they're
> > ready, not before and not after.))
>
> Well I did not ask for their help. I might have gone along if they sent a
> letter saying we are here if you need us, call and make an appointment when
> and if you feel up to it. What I got was letters threatening me with
> bullshit if I did not attend etc. Fuck them, I have been signed off by my
> GP, and there is fuck all they can do about it.
>
> What I would like to know is, how Shaw Trust got my details in the first
> place? I think the JC must have contacted them.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, JC will have contacted them. The Shaw Trust are acting under a
contract with the JC so will be able to be informed of your details.
As you say, fuck all they can do about the fact you've been signed off
by your GP. Until the tribunal decision. Or unless the law allows them
to impose sanctions.

Martin  <><