The HB regs don't allow a person to voluntarily terminate their HB claim 
in order to make a new claim and thus switch to the new LHA rates.

However, after a lengthy and complicated debate amongst LAs, the DWP has 
issued new guidance that certain commisioners decisions apply, and that 
claimants can withdraw their claims in this situation. (commisioners are 
the next step-up after appeals heard by The Tribunals Service).

I personally think this guidance is incorrect, and that the commisioners 
decisions shouldn't be applied to these cases, but this does mean that 
many (not all) councils are following the advice and allowing people to 
end their HB and claim LHA. Some are insisting on a weeks gap, some aren't.

Here is the relevant DWP circular (page 4 of the pdf).

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/housingbenefit/news/newsletter/bulletins/2008/g10-2008.pdf

anthonyberet wrote:
> The HB regs don't allow a person to voluntarily terminate their HB claim 
> in order to make a new claim and thus switch to the new LHA rates.
> 
> However, after a lengthy and complicated debate amongst LAs, the DWP has 
> issued new guidance that certain commisioners decisions apply, and that 
> claimants can withdraw their claims in this situation. (commisioners are 
> the next step-up after appeals heard by The Tribunals Service).
> 
> I personally think this guidance is incorrect, and that the commisioners 
> decisions shouldn't be applied to these cases, but this does mean that 
> many (not all) councils are following the advice and allowing people to 
> end their HB and claim LHA. Some are insisting on a weeks gap, some aren't.
> 
> Here is the relevant DWP circular (page 4 of the pdf).
> 
> http://www.dwp.gov.uk/housingbenefit/news/newsletter/bulletins/2008/g10-2008.pdf 
> 

The DWP guidance seems sensible though. In my council area the 
difference between the old HB normally paid for a one bedroom flat and 
that allowed under the LHA differs by £22, not a small sum given that 
the old HB rate was £70 and the LHA is £92 and most flats start at £80 a 
week. Quite a % difference in fact.

What has happened here is that people are moving to another one bedroom 
flat owned by the same landlord just to trigger a break in claim. There 
is a bit of a flat merry-go-round happening with claimants swapping 
flats and in some cases, once LHA is in payment, moving back! Quite 
silly that people have to do this just to get more money.

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:24:56 +0100, Robbie 
wrote:

>anthonyberet wrote:
>> The HB regs don't allow a person to voluntarily terminate their HB claim 
>> in order to make a new claim and thus switch to the new LHA rates.
>> 
>> However, after a lengthy and complicated debate amongst LAs, the DWP has 
>> issued new guidance that certain commisioners decisions apply, and that 
>> claimants can withdraw their claims in this situation. (commisioners are 
>> the next step-up after appeals heard by The Tribunals Service).
>> 
>> I personally think this guidance is incorrect, and that the commisioners 
>> decisions shouldn't be applied to these cases, but this does mean that 
>> many (not all) councils are following the advice and allowing people to 
>> end their HB and claim LHA. Some are insisting on a weeks gap, some aren't.
>> 
>> Here is the relevant DWP circular (page 4 of the pdf).
>> 
>> http://www.dwp.gov.uk/housingbenefit/news/newsletter/bulletins/2008/g10-2008.pdf 
>> 
>
>The DWP guidance seems sensible though. In my council area the 
>difference between the old HB normally paid for a one bedroom flat and 
>that allowed under the LHA differs by £22, not a small sum given that 
>the old HB rate was £70 and the LHA is £92 and most flats start at £80 a 
>week. Quite a % difference in fact.
>
>What has happened here is that people are moving to another one bedroom 
>flat owned by the same landlord just to trigger a break in claim. There 
>is a bit of a flat merry-go-round happening with claimants swapping 
>flats and in some cases, once LHA is in payment, moving back! Quite 
>silly that people have to do this just to get more money.


So was the system designed to increase private landlord's profits?
-- 
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

mogga wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:24:56 +0100, Robbie 
> wrote:
> 
>> anthonyberet wrote:
>>> The HB regs don't allow a person to voluntarily terminate their HB claim 
>>> in order to make a new claim and thus switch to the new LHA rates.
>>>
>>> However, after a lengthy and complicated debate amongst LAs, the DWP has 
>>> issued new guidance that certain commisioners decisions apply, and that 
>>> claimants can withdraw their claims in this situation. (commisioners are 
>>> the next step-up after appeals heard by The Tribunals Service).
>>>
>>> I personally think this guidance is incorrect, and that the commisioners 
>>> decisions shouldn't be applied to these cases, but this does mean that 
>>> many (not all) councils are following the advice and allowing people to 
>>> end their HB and claim LHA. Some are insisting on a weeks gap, some aren't.
>>>
>>> Here is the relevant DWP circular (page 4 of the pdf).
>>>
>>> http://www.dwp.gov.uk/housingbenefit/news/newsletter/bulletins/2008/g10-2008.pdf 
>>>
>> The DWP guidance seems sensible though. In my council area the 
>> difference between the old HB normally paid for a one bedroom flat and 
>> that allowed under the LHA differs by £22, not a small sum given that 
>> the old HB rate was £70 and the LHA is £92 and most flats start at £80 a 
>> week. Quite a % difference in fact.
>>
>> What has happened here is that people are moving to another one bedroom 
>> flat owned by the same landlord just to trigger a break in claim. There 
>> is a bit of a flat merry-go-round happening with claimants swapping 
>> flats and in some cases, once LHA is in payment, moving back! Quite 
>> silly that people have to do this just to get more money.
> 
> 
> So was the system designed to increase private landlord's profits?

The old system or the new system?

the new system is a little more generous around here but soon enough 
landlords will just increase rents and the person claiming HB will be no 
better off.

The old system, in the 80s, was a landlords dream. Full rent (paid in 
advance, not arrears) was often covered by HB and rent in advance and 
deposits were often paid by the old DHSS as single payments of 
supplementary benefit to claimants who were on benefit. Obviously the 
introduction of the Social Fund limited the amount of money payable to 
claimants (for deposits) and reforms to HB in the 90s limited the amount 
of rent HB would cover. The new LHA is a bit more generous but rents 
will soon catch up and claimants will be making up shortfalls once again.

-- 
Robbie

On 24 Jun, 10:04, Robbie  wrote:
> mogga wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:24:56 퍝, Robbie 
> > wrote:
>
> >> anthonyberet wrote:
> >>> The HB regs don't allow a person to voluntarily terminate their HB claim
> >>> in order to make a new claim and thus switch to the new LHA rates.
>
> >>> However, after a lengthy and complicated debate amongst LAs, the DWP has
> >>> issued new guidance that certain commisioners decisions apply, and that
> >>> claimants can withdraw their claims in this situation. (commisioners are
> >>> the next step-up after appeals heard by The Tribunals Service).
>
> >>> I personally think this guidance is incorrect, and that the commisioners
> >>> decisions shouldn't be applied to these cases, but this does mean that
> >>> many (not all) councils are following the advice and allowing people to
> >>> end their HB and claim LHA. Some are insisting on a weeks gap, some aren't.
>
> >>> Here is the relevant DWP circular (page 4 of the pdf).
>
> >>>http://www.dwp.gov.uk/housingbenefit/news/newsletter/bulletins/2008/g.> >> The DWP guidance seems sensible though. In my council area the
> >> difference between the old HB normally paid for a one bedroom flat and
> >> that allowed under the LHA differs by £22, not a small sum given that
> >> the old HB rate was £70 and the LHA is £92 and most flats start at £80 a
> >> week. Quite a % difference in fact.
>
> >> What has happened here is that people are moving to another one bedroom
> >> flat owned by the same landlord just to trigger a break in claim. There
> >> is a bit of a flat merry-go-round happening with claimants swapping
> >> flats and in some cases, once LHA is in payment, moving back! Quite
> >> silly that people have to do this just to get more money.
>
> > So was the system designed to increase private landlord's profits?
>
> The old system or the new system?
>
> the new system is a little more generous around here but soon enough
> landlords will just increase rents and the person claiming HB will be no
> better off.
>
> The old system, in the 80s, was a landlords dream. Full rent (paid in
> advance, not arrears) was often covered by HB and rent in advance and
> deposits were often paid by the old DHSS as single payments of
> supplementary benefit to claimants who were on benefit. Obviously the
> introduction of the Social Fund limited the amount of money payable to
> claimants (for deposits) and reforms to HB in the 90s limited the amount
> of rent HB would cover. The new LHA is a bit more generous but rents
> will soon catch up and claimants will be making up shortfalls once again.
>
> --
> Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

There are plenty of unscrupulous landlords who charge the renter extra
on top of what HB are paying (usually £20 a week round here but one
pensioner is paying £90 a week). Tenants won't complain officially as
they are scared of losing their place.
LHA will increase landlord's return on investment (currently recent
purchases give a lower return than many savings accounts). Which does
make buy to let a little more attractive, so impacting on housing
market.  :)
Be interesting to see long term how its all going to be paid for. As
you say Robbie, quite an increase.

Martin  <><

Robbie wrote:
> anthonyberet wrote:
>> The HB regs don't allow a person to voluntarily terminate their HB 
>> claim in order to make a new claim and thus switch to the new LHA rates.
>>
>> However, after a lengthy and complicated debate amongst LAs, the DWP 
>> has issued new guidance that certain commisioners decisions apply, and 
>> that claimants can withdraw their claims in this situation. 
>> (commisioners are the next step-up after appeals heard by The 
>> Tribunals Service).
>>
>> I personally think this guidance is incorrect, and that the 
>> commisioners decisions shouldn't be applied to these cases, but this 
>> does mean that many (not all) councils are following the advice and 
>> allowing people to end their HB and claim LHA. Some are insisting on a 
>> weeks gap, some aren't.
>>
>> Here is the relevant DWP circular (page 4 of the pdf).
>>
>> http://www.dwp.gov.uk/housingbenefit/news/newsletter/bulletins/2008/g10-2008.pdf 
>>
> 
> The DWP guidance seems sensible though. 

It may be sensible, but the government's policy intention is that those 
on old-style HB should stay on it. The reasoning is a bit defective in 
my view. The govt felt that having a 'big-bang' where everyone changed 
to LHA in one go would be difficult from a software point of view (not 
really true), and that the turnover in claim caseloads would shift 
nearly all to LHA in a year anyway. This is also doubtful. Anyway, 
neither the DWP nor LAs should really be subverting the policy intention.

Furthermore, the HB regulations do not allow voluntary ending of 
entitlements, and the DWP should probably have amended the regs if they 
wanted this.

The commisioners decisons quoted say that a claimant may end their 
entitlement voluntarily, if they have a clear and genuine intention to 
stop claiming in future. This is my sticking-point, as I can't see that 
this is the case in this scenario.

There is also dispute about the need for a one-week gap in the benefit. 
To my mind, if the known intention to claim in future is discounted, I 
can't see why it can't overlap with the old-style HB, and so the request 
for termination and new claim could be made in the same week, making LHA 
begin immediately after the old-style HB ends.

Anyway, I expect that councils will be able to get subsidy for these 
change-overs, and so to not allow them would be unfair on the public. 
It's messy though. I have never seen such disagreement and confusion 
over a change to the regs.