I receive Income support and DLA. Due to the severity of my mental
illnesses I am SERIOUSLY in debt. So much so I often wonder where my
next meal is coming from.
I have seen some job vanancies, which would allow me to work and make
enough money to pay off my debts. Hoever the jobcentre told me that if
I work for more than 16 hours I will lose my benefit,and will have to
fill in all the forms again.
You might ask if I'm able to work, why am I on benefits,and why don't
I just get a job? The reason is that I really am seriously mentally
ill, but can push myself to work for 2 weeks, to make enough money to
pay off my loans and overdraft.
Can anyone be helpful eough to think of a way around my predicament?
I can remember reading somerhwere that if you inform the jobcentre
before you start work,then you can restart your cliam without having
to fill in all the forms again,but only a short version of the
forms.However when I phoned the jobcentre they told me that no such
scheme existed.
I'm so desperate that it's making me even more depressed.
Thanks and bye.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 13:19:11 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
 wrote:

>I receive Income support and DLA. Due to the severity of my mental
>illnesses I am SERIOUSLY in debt. So much so I often wonder where my
>next meal is coming from.

You need debt advice.
See the CAB.


>I have seen some job vanancies, which would allow me to work and make
>enough money to pay off my debts. Hoever the jobcentre told me that if
>I work for more than 16 hours I will lose my benefit,and will have to
>fill in all the forms again.
>You might ask if I'm able to work, why am I on benefits,and why don't
>I just get a job? The reason is that I really am seriously mentally
>ill, but can push myself to work for 2 weeks, to make enough money to
>pay off my loans and overdraft.
>Can anyone be helpful eough to think of a way around my predicament?
>I can remember reading somerhwere that if you inform the jobcentre
>before you start work,then you can restart your cliam without having
>to fill in all the forms again,but only a short version of the
>forms.However when I phoned the jobcentre they told me that no such
>scheme existed.
>I'm so desperate that it's making me even more depressed.
>Thanks and bye.
-- 
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

On 12 May, 08:15, mogga  wrote:
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 13:19:11 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
>
>  wrote:
> >I receive Income support and DLA. Due to the severity of my mental
> >illnesses I am SERIOUSLY in debt. So much so I often wonder where my
> >next meal is coming from.
>
> You need debt advice.
> See the CAB.
>
>
>
>
>
> >I have seen some job vanancies, which would allow me to work and make
> >enough money to pay off my debts. Hoever the jobcentre told me that if
> >I work for more than 16 hours I will lose my benefit,and will have to
> >fill in all the forms again.
> >You might ask if I'm able to work, why am I on benefits,and why don't
> >I just get a job? The reason is that I really am seriously mentally
> >ill, but can push myself to work for 2 weeks, to make enough money to
> >pay off my loans and overdraft.
> >Can anyone be helpful eough to think of a way around my predicament?
> >I can remember reading somerhwere that if you inform the jobcentre
> >before you start work,then you can restart your cliam without having
> >to fill in all the forms again,but only a short version of the
> >forms.However when I phoned the jobcentre they told me that no such
> >scheme existed.
> >I'm so desperate that it's making me even more depressed.
> >Thanks and bye.
>
> --http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.ukhttp://www.holidayunder100.co.uk- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well,firstly thanks for your advice. But the ppl in the CAB will only
tell me to budget and not spend so much money on luxuires. This is
something I do already.
Can no one at all think of a way I can work for 2 weeks and then
somehow tell the Jobcentre that I've worked,without having to stop
receiving benefits?
Thanks and bye.

On 13 May, 19:33, Sal_55  wrote:
> On 12 May, 08:15, mogga  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 11 May 2008 13:19:11 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
>
> >  wrote:
> > >I receive Income support and DLA. Due to the severity of my mental
> > >illnesses I am SERIOUSLY in debt. So much so I often wonder where my
> > >next meal is coming from.
>
> > You need debt advice.
> > See the CAB.
>
> > >I have seen some job vanancies, which would allow me to work and make
> > >enough money to pay off my debts. Hoever the jobcentre told me that if
> > >I work for more than 16 hours I will lose my benefit,and will have to
> > >fill in all the forms again.
> > >You might ask if I'm able to work, why am I on benefits,and why don't
> > >I just get a job? The reason is that I really am seriously mentally
> > >ill, but can push myself to work for 2 weeks, to make enough money to
> > >pay off my loans and overdraft.
> > >Can anyone be helpful eough to think of a way around my predicament?
> > >I can remember reading somerhwere that if you inform the jobcentre
> > >before you start work,then you can restart your cliam without having
> > >to fill in all the forms again,but only a short version of the
> > >forms.However when I phoned the jobcentre they told me that no such
> > >scheme existed.
> > >I'm so desperate that it's making me even more depressed.
> > >Thanks and bye.
>
> > --http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.ukhttp://www.holidayunder100.co.uk-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Well,firstly thanks for your advice. But the ppl in the CAB will only
> tell me to budget and not spend so much money on luxuires. This is
> something I do already.
> Can no one at all think of a way I can work for 2 weeks and then
> somehow tell the Jobcentre that I've worked,without having to stop
> receiving benefits?
> Thanks and bye.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ummm...not sure the CAB would mention luxuries if they weren't in your
spending.
Budgeting is the best way out of debt, not always easy but even the
dimmest organisation you owe money to will recognise a budget.

You could just work for 2 weeks then tell the jobcentre. But can you
be certain, regardless of what you read on a newsgroup, that they
won't stop you receiving benefits?
Could make things worse for yourself.

Martin  <><

"Sal_55"  wrote in message 
news:0a469b8f-022b-427a-961f-e5fa68550953@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 12 May, 08:15, mogga  wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 May 2008 13:19:11 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >I receive Income support and DLA. Due to the severity of my mental
>> >illnesses I am SERIOUSLY in debt. So much so I often wonder where my
>> >next meal is coming from.
>>
>> You need debt advice.
>> See the CAB.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >I have seen some job vanancies, which would allow me to work and make
>> >enough money to pay off my debts. Hoever the jobcentre told me that if
>> >I work for more than 16 hours I will lose my benefit,and will have to
>> >fill in all the forms again.
>> >You might ask if I'm able to work, why am I on benefits,and why don't
>> >I just get a job? The reason is that I really am seriously mentally
>> >ill, but can push myself to work for 2 weeks, to make enough money to
>> >pay off my loans and overdraft.
>> >Can anyone be helpful eough to think of a way around my predicament?
>> >I can remember reading somerhwere that if you inform the jobcentre
>> >before you start work,then you can restart your cliam without having
>> >to fill in all the forms again,but only a short version of the
>> >forms.However when I phoned the jobcentre they told me that no such
>> >scheme existed.
>> >I'm so desperate that it's making me even more depressed.
>> >Thanks and bye.
>>
>> --http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.ukhttp://www.holidayunder100.co.uk- Hide 
>> quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Well,firstly thanks for your advice. But the ppl in the CAB will only
> tell me to budget and not spend so much money on luxuires. This is
> something I do already.
> Can no one at all think of a way I can work for 2 weeks and then
> somehow tell the Jobcentre that I've worked,without having to stop
> receiving benefits?
> Thanks and bye.



Yes, use telepathy to inform them you have worked and it will not affect 
your benefit.

On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:33:32 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
 wrote:

>On 12 May, 08:15, mogga  wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 May 2008 13:19:11 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >I receive Income support and DLA. Due to the severity of my mental
>> >illnesses I am SERIOUSLY in debt. So much so I often wonder where my
>> >next meal is coming from.
>>
>> You need debt advice.
>> See the CAB.
>>
>>

>
>Well,firstly thanks for your advice. But the ppl in the CAB will only
>tell me to budget and not spend so much money on luxuires. This is
>something I do already.
>Can no one at all think of a way I can work for 2 weeks and then
>somehow tell the Jobcentre that I've worked,without having to stop
>receiving benefits?
>Thanks and bye.


No, seriously you need debt advice. If all your money goes on
servincing debt you need something called an IVA or banruptcy. 

Please make an appointment to see them and see what help they can
offer you. You could probably ring one of the many IVA companies up
and have a chat immediately to see if you qualify for one.

-- 
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

mogga wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:33:32 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 12 May, 08:15, mogga  wrote:
>>> On Sun, 11 May 2008 13:19:11 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
>>>
>>>  wrote:
>>>> I receive Income support and DLA. Due to the severity of my mental
>>>> illnesses I am SERIOUSLY in debt. So much so I often wonder where my
>>>> next meal is coming from.
>>> You need debt advice.
>>> See the CAB.
>>>
>>>
> 
>> Well,firstly thanks for your advice. But the ppl in the CAB will only
>> tell me to budget and not spend so much money on luxuires. This is
>> something I do already.
>> Can no one at all think of a way I can work for 2 weeks and then
>> somehow tell the Jobcentre that I've worked,without having to stop
>> receiving benefits?
>> Thanks and bye.
> 
> 
> No, seriously you need debt advice. If all your money goes on
> servincing debt you need something called an IVA or banruptcy. 
> 
> Please make an appointment to see them and see what help they can
> offer you. You could probably ring one of the many IVA companies up
> and have a chat immediately to see if you qualify for one.
> 

An IVA can usually only be applied for where debt exceeds £15,000 and 
there are 3 or more creditors.

 From posts that the original poster has previously made here and 
elsewhere I honestly believe that there are more issues than just debt 
that need dealing with. Does the OP have a CPN? CPN's can help people 
access more than just mental health services. They usually can refer 
people to debt counsellors, outside of the CAB, as well as referring 
people to agencies who can maximise access to benefits and other welfare 
services.

-- 
Robbie

On 14 May, 09:23, Robbie  wrote:
> mogga wrote:
> > On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:33:32 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
> >  wrote:
>
> >> On 12 May, 08:15, mogga  wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 11 May 2008 13:19:11 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
>
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>> I receive Income support and DLA. Due to the severity of my mental
> >>>> illnesses I am SERIOUSLY in debt. So much so I often wonder where my
> >>>> next meal is coming from.
> >>> You need debt advice.
> >>> See the CAB.
>
> >> Well,firstly thanks for your advice. But the ppl in the CAB will only
> >> tell me to budget and not spend so much money on luxuires. This is
> >> something I do already.
> >> Can no one at all think of a way I can work for 2 weeks and then
> >> somehow tell the Jobcentre that I've worked,without having to stop
> >> receiving benefits?
> >> Thanks and bye.
>
> > No, seriously you need debt advice. If all your money goes on
> > servincing debt you need something called an IVA or banruptcy.
>
> > Please make an appointment to see them and see what help they can
> > offer you. You could probably ring one of the many IVA companies up
> > and have a chat immediately to see if you qualify for one.
>
> An IVA can usually only be applied for where debt exceeds £15,000 and
> there are 3 or more creditors.
>
>  From posts that the original poster has previously made here and
> elsewhere I honestly believe that there are more issues than just debt
> that need dealing with. Does the OP have a CPN? CPN's can help people
> access more than just mental health services. They usually can refer
> people to debt counsellors, outside of the CAB, as well as referring
> people to agencies who can maximise access to benefits and other welfare
> services.
>
> --
> Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

There is a good online/phone debt service called Consumer Credit
Counselling Service. Free to use, can draw up a budget plan, even pay
unsecured lenders for you using your money (ie you pay them £30 a
month and they split it between the debts and send one cheque per
lender with a list of accounts and amounts to credit).

No charge to customer, no commission, nothing extra payable.

Martin  <><

On 13 May, 21:45, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
> On 13 May, 19:33, Sal_55  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 12 May, 08:15, mogga  wrote:
>
> > > On Sun, 11 May 2008 13:19:11 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
>
> > >  wrote:
> > > >I receive Income support and DLA. Due to the severity of my mental
> > > >illnesses I am SERIOUSLY in debt. So much so I often wonder where my
> > > >next meal is coming from.
>
> > > You need debt advice.
> > > See the CAB.
>
> > > >I have seen some job vanancies, which would allow me to work and make> > > >enough money to pay off my debts. Hoever the jobcentre told me that if
> > > >I work for more than 16 hours I will lose my benefit,and will have to> > > >fill in all the forms again.
> > > >You might ask if I'm able to work, why am I on benefits,and why don't> > > >I just get a job? The reason is that I really am seriously mentally
> > > >ill, but can push myself to work for 2 weeks, to make enough money to> > > >pay off my loans and overdraft.
> > > >Can anyone be helpful eough to think of a way around my predicament?
> > > >I can remember reading somerhwere that if you inform the jobcentre
> > > >before you start work,then you can restart your cliam without having
> > > >to fill in all the forms again,but only a short version of the
> > > >forms.However when I phoned the jobcentre they told me that no such
> > > >scheme existed.
> > > >I'm so desperate that it's making me even more depressed.
> > > >Thanks and bye.
>
> > > --http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.ukhttp://www.holidayunder100.co.uk-Hidequoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Well,firstly thanks for your advice. But the ppl in the CAB will only
> > tell me to budget and not spend so much money on luxuires. This is
> > something I do already.
> > Can no one at all think of a way I can work for 2 weeks and then
> > somehow tell the Jobcentre that I've worked,without having to stop
> > receiving benefits?
> > Thanks and bye.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Ummm...not sure the CAB would mention luxuries if they weren't in your
> spending.
> Budgeting is the best way out of debt, not always easy but even the
> dimmest organisation you owe money to will recognise a budget.
>
> You could just work for 2 weeks then tell the jobcentre. But can you
> be certain, regardless of what you read on a newsgroup, that they
> won't stop you receiving benefits?
> Could make things worse for yourself.
>
> Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the Jobcentre
say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's just
for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for 2
weeks.
I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a loophole,where I
can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
Thanks again and bye.

Sal_55 wrote:
> On 13 May, 21:45, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
>> On 13 May, 19:33, Sal_55  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 12 May, 08:15, mogga  wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 11 May 2008 13:19:11 -0700 (PDT), Sal_55
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> I receive Income support and DLA. Due to the severity of my mental
>>>>> illnesses I am SERIOUSLY in debt. So much so I often wonder where my
>>>>> next meal is coming from.
>>>> You need debt advice.
>>>> See the CAB.
>>>>> I have seen some job vanancies, which would allow me to work and make
>>>>> enough money to pay off my debts. Hoever the jobcentre told me that if
>>>>> I work for more than 16 hours I will lose my benefit,and will have to
>>>>> fill in all the forms again.
>>>>> You might ask if I'm able to work, why am I on benefits,and why don't
>>>>> I just get a job? The reason is that I really am seriously mentally
>>>>> ill, but can push myself to work for 2 weeks, to make enough money to
>>>>> pay off my loans and overdraft.
>>>>> Can anyone be helpful eough to think of a way around my predicament?
>>>>> I can remember reading somerhwere that if you inform the jobcentre
>>>>> before you start work,then you can restart your cliam without having
>>>>> to fill in all the forms again,but only a short version of the
>>>>> forms.However when I phoned the jobcentre they told me that no such
>>>>> scheme existed.
>>>>> I'm so desperate that it's making me even more depressed.
>>>>> Thanks and bye.
>>>> --http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.ukhttp://www.holidayunder100.co.uk-Hidequoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Well,firstly thanks for your advice. But the ppl in the CAB will only
>>> tell me to budget and not spend so much money on luxuires. This is
>>> something I do already.
>>> Can no one at all think of a way I can work for 2 weeks and then
>>> somehow tell the Jobcentre that I've worked,without having to stop
>>> receiving benefits?
>>> Thanks and bye.- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> Ummm...not sure the CAB would mention luxuries if they weren't in your
>> spending.
>> Budgeting is the best way out of debt, not always easy but even the
>> dimmest organisation you owe money to will recognise a budget.
>>
>> You could just work for 2 weeks then tell the jobcentre. But can you
>> be certain, regardless of what you read on a newsgroup, that they
>> won't stop you receiving benefits?
>> Could make things worse for yourself.
>>
>> Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the Jobcentre
> say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
> phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
> payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's just
> for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for 2
> weeks.
> I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a loophole,where I
> can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
> support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
> process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
> Thanks again and bye.

the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and Job 
Seekers Allowance) are:

1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for £. 
the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.

If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called for a 
medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are long 
term sick.

You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to solve.

Without being harsh, I have told you these fact in the past when you 
have asked similar questions about income and benefits.

-- 
Robbie

"Robbie"  wrote in message
news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
> > Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the
Jobcentre
> > say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
> > phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
> > payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's
just
> > for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
2
> > weeks.
> > I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
loophole,where I
> > can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
> > support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
> > process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
> > Thanks again and bye.
>
> the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and
Job
> Seekers Allowance) are:
>
> 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
> 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
£.
> the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>
> If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called
for a
> medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are
long
> term sick.
>
> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
solve.

Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a
job for too long.

I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to
him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's
done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he
couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him
having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't -
because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.

Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested
benefits?

--
Andy

Andy Pandy wrote:
> "Robbie"  wrote in message
> news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the
> Jobcentre
>>> say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
>>> phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
>>> payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's
> just
>>> for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
> 2
>>> weeks.
>>> I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
> loophole,where I
>>> can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
>>> support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
>>> process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
>>> Thanks again and bye.
>> the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and
> Job
>> Seekers Allowance) are:
>>
>> 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
>> 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
> £.
>> the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>>
>> If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called
> for a
>> medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are
> long
>> term sick.
>>
>> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
> solve.
> 
> Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
> People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
> Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a
> job for too long.
> 
> I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
> from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to
> him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's
> done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
> wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he
> couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him
> having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't -
> because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.
> 
> Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
> because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested
> benefits?
> 
> --
> Andy
> 
> 
> 
> 

What alternatives could you suggest though? Work is work, and if people 
claim they can't work... the benefit system can be a clunking, immovable 
machine but it can only react to how people behave and how they see 
their lives. If they say they can't work, then it has to accept they 
can't work. If they can, then they will fall outside it.

How would you change it? Politicians have been trying for at least a 
decade to change the way benefits can react to people who want to work 
but claim they can't. Is it so inflexible and are rules?

I know it is, but what about other people? And how would you change things?

-- 
Robbie

"Robbie"  wrote in message
news:690nhfF2vaiukU1@mid.individual.net...
> >> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying
to
> > solve.
> >
> > Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
> > People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
> > Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to
hold a
> > job for too long.
> >
> > I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
> > from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was
talking to
> > him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff -
he's
> > done loads of programming and web design just for something to do.
He
> > wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't
mean he
> > couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto
him
> > having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't -
> > because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.
> >
> > Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
> > because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means
tested
> > benefits?
> >
>
> What alternatives could you suggest though? Work is work, and if
people
> claim they can't work... the benefit system can be a clunking,
immovable
> machine but it can only react to how people behave and how they see
> their lives. If they say they can't work, then it has to accept they
> can't work. If they can, then they will fall outside it.
>
> How would you change it? Politicians have been trying for at least a
> decade to change the way benefits can react to people who want to
work
> but claim they can't. Is it so inflexible and are rules?
>
> I know it is, but what about other people? And how would you change
things?

Simple. No means testing! At all! Join up taxation and benefits
properly.

Think about it. The basic way benefits work (and I include tax credits
in benefits), is that when you have no income or capital, you get
benefits.

Then if you start earning 2 things happen. Your benefits get reduced,
and you start paying tax.

Now, think of income related benefit reduction as tax. It's
effectively the same thing, you get your benefits taken off you
increasingly as your income increases, just like you get income tax
taken off you increasingly as your income increases.

So have just ONE thing which happens as income increases. Taxation.

If you give everyone the benefits they'd get if they had zero income,
then set the tax rate at 100% for the first £3000 or so, then reducing
in several bands down to eventually 31%, then gradually increasing,
you end up with basically the same end result as now. People would be
no better or worse off.

But of course you wouldn't. You'd flatten the tax rate to the rate
required to make it financially neutral, so the poorest don't pay the
highest %.

There'd be no means testing, people who did any type of work would
simply pay a flat rate tax on that work and not have to tell the
benefits people. Reduced bureaucracy, less fraud etc. And a fairer
system - everyone would get enough to live on and everyone would
simply pay a percentage of the income they earn in excess of this.

You might not even need to make people seek work - as getting a low
paid job would be *much* more financially attractive than it is now.

--
Andy

On 14 May, 18:32, "Andy Pandy" <spam8ti...@wonderful.spam.invalid>
wrote:
> "Robbie"  wrote in message
>
> news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
> > > Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the
> Jobcentre
> > > say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
> > > phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
> > > payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's
> just
> > > for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
> 2
> > > weeks.
> > > I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
> loophole,where I
> > > can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
> > > support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
> > > process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
> > > Thanks again and bye.
>
> > the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and
> Job
> > Seekers Allowance) are:
>
> > 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
> > 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
> £.
> > the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>
> > If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called
> for a
> > medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are
> long
> > term sick.
>
> > You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
>
> solve.
>
> Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
> People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
> Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a
> job for too long.
>
> I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
> from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to
> him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's
> done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
> wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he
> couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him
> having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't -
> because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.
>
> Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
> because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested
> benefits?
>
> --
> Andy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Would rules more tailored to the individual rather than current broad
brush cost more in staff time and effort to do, with increased chance
of fraud too?
I for one would prefer a system with more leeway for the individual,
just not sure its viable. And definately at least as open to fraud as
current system.

Martin  <><

On 14 May, 18:58, Robbie  wrote:
> Andy Pandy wrote:
> > "Robbie"  wrote in message
> >news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
> >>> Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the
> > Jobcentre
> >>> say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
> >>> phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
> >>> payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's
> > just
> >>> for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
> > 2
> >>> weeks.
> >>> I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
> > loophole,where I
> >>> can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
> >>> support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
> >>> process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
> >>> Thanks again and bye.
> >> the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and
> > Job
> >> Seekers Allowance) are:
>
> >> 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
> >> 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
> > £.
> >> the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>
> >> If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called
> > for a
> >> medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are
> > long
> >> term sick.
>
> >> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
> > solve.
>
> > Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
> > People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
> > Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a
> > job for too long.
>
> > I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
> > from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to
> > him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's
> > done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
> > wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he
> > couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him
> > having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't -
> > because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.
>
> > Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
> > because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested
> > benefits?
>
> > --
> > Andy
>
> What alternatives could you suggest though? Work is work, and if people
> claim they can't work... the benefit system can be a clunking, immovable
> machine but it can only react to how people behave and how they see
> their lives. If they say they can't work, then it has to accept they
> can't work. If they can, then they will fall outside it.
>
> How would you change it? Politicians have been trying for at least a
> decade to change the way benefits can react to people who want to work
> but claim they can't. Is it so inflexible and are rules?
>
> I know it is, but what about other people? And how would you change things> Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Robbie. Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
easily.
Depressed people lack confidence,and maybe allowing them short periods
of employment whilst on benefits will help increase some of thier self-
esteem?
Lastly, if I wanted to tell a politican to change the rules regarding
allowing people to work for a short period of time,without losing
their benefits entriely,how would I do it? Should I email the
Department of Work? Should I start an online petition at the 10
Downing Street website? ( I'm feeling quite depressed today,if anyone
can be kind enough to do either of the 2 above for me,I'd be fiarly
grateful. Thanks).

Sal_55 wrote:
> On 14 May, 18:58, Robbie  wrote:
>> Andy Pandy wrote:
>>> "Robbie"  wrote in message
>>> news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the
>>> Jobcentre
>>>>> say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
>>>>> phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
>>>>> payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's
>>> just
>>>>> for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
>>> 2
>>>>> weeks.
>>>>> I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
>>> loophole,where I
>>>>> can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
>>>>> support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
>>>>> process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
>>>>> Thanks again and bye.
>>>> the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and
>>> Job
>>>> Seekers Allowance) are:
>>>> 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
>>>> 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
>>> £.
>>>> the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>>>> If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called
>>> for a
>>>> medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are
>>> long
>>>> term sick.
>>>> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
>>> solve.
>>> Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
>>> People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
>>> Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a
>>> job for too long.
>>> I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
>>> from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to
>>> him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's
>>> done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
>>> wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he
>>> couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him
>>> having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't -
>>> because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.
>>> Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
>>> because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested
>>> benefits?
>>> --
>>> Andy
>> What alternatives could you suggest though? Work is work, and if people
>> claim they can't work... the benefit system can be a clunking, immovable
>> machine but it can only react to how people behave and how they see
>> their lives. If they say they can't work, then it has to accept they
>> can't work. If they can, then they will fall outside it.
>>
>> How would you change it? Politicians have been trying for at least a
>> decade to change the way benefits can react to people who want to work
>> but claim they can't. Is it so inflexible and are rules?
>>
>> I know it is, but what about other people? And how would you change things?
>>
>> --
>> Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Hi Robbie. Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
> 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> easily.
> Depressed people lack confidence,and maybe allowing them short periods
> of employment whilst on benefits will help increase some of thier self-
> esteem?
> Lastly, if I wanted to tell a politican to change the rules regarding
> allowing people to work for a short period of time,without losing
> their benefits entriely,how would I do it? Should I email the
> Department of Work? Should I start an online petition at the 10
> Downing Street website? ( I'm feeling quite depressed today,if anyone
> can be kind enough to do either of the 2 above for me,I'd be fiarly
> grateful. Thanks).

Hi sal

If 9 days benefit was deducted it wouldn't help people who need to 
better themselves. The rules will always pull them back and make them 
worse off. The rules are too harsh about people trying to better themselves.

I know you are trying to make yourself more financially secure, 
unfortunately the rules won't allow it.

-- 
Robbie

"Sal_55"  wrote in message
news:b26bb843-ec5c-4a22-b3d7-991865e6b569@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Robbie. Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works
for
> 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> easily.
> Depressed people lack confidence,and maybe allowing them short
periods
> of employment whilst on benefits will help increase some of thier
self-
> esteem?
> Lastly, if I wanted to tell a politican to change the rules
regarding
> allowing people to work for a short period of time,without losing
> their benefits entriely,how would I do it? Should I email the
> Department of Work? Should I start an online petition at the 10
> Downing Street website? ( I'm feeling quite depressed today,if
anyone
> can be kind enough to do either of the 2 above for me,I'd be fiarly
> grateful. Thanks).

The online petitions probably wouldn't work - even those getting
hundred of thousands of signatures get ignored and I doubt anywhere
near that number would be interested enough (or understand enough) to
support you.

You could write to your MP, or possibly to Frank Field who is one of
the few politicians who actually understands these sort of issues and
is prepared to stand up to the government.

http://www.frankfield.com/type3.asp?id=3&type=3

--
Andy

On 14 May, 19:50, Sal_55  wrote:
> On 14 May, 18:58, Robbie  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Andy Pandy wrote:
> > > "Robbie"  wrote in message
> > >news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
> > >>> Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the
> > > Jobcentre
> > >>> say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
> > >>> phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
> > >>> payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's
> > > just
> > >>> for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
> > > 2
> > >>> weeks.
> > >>> I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
> > > loophole,where I
> > >>> can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
> > >>> support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
> > >>> process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
> > >>> Thanks again and bye.
> > >> the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and
> > > Job
> > >> Seekers Allowance) are:
>
> > >> 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
> > >> 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
> > > £.
> > >> the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>
> > >> If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called
> > > for a
> > >> medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are
> > > long
> > >> term sick.
>
> > >> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
> > > solve.
>
> > > Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
> > > People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
> > > Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a> > > job for too long.
>
> > > I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
> > > from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to> > > him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's
> > > done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
> > > wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he> > > couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him> > > having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't -
> > > because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.
>
> > > Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
> > > because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested> > > benefits?
>
> > > --
> > > Andy
>
> > What alternatives could you suggest though? Work is work, and if people
> > claim they can't work... the benefit system can be a clunking, immovable> > machine but it can only react to how people behave and how they see
> > their lives. If they say they can't work, then it has to accept they
> > can't work. If they can, then they will fall outside it.
>
> > How would you change it? Politicians have been trying for at least a
> > decade to change the way benefits can react to people who want to work
> > but claim they can't. Is it so inflexible and are rules?
>
> > I know it is, but what about other people? And how would you change things?
>
> > --
> > Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Robbie. Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
> 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> easily.
> Depressed people lack confidence,and maybe allowing them short periods
> of employment whilst on benefits will help increase some of thier self-
> esteem?
> Lastly, if I wanted to tell a politican to change the rules regarding
> allowing people to work for a short period of time,without losing
> their benefits entriely,how would I do it? Should I email the
> Department of Work? Should I start an online petition at the 10
> Downing Street website? ( I'm feeling quite depressed today,if anyone
> can be kind enough to do either of the 2 above for me,I'd be fiarly
> grateful. Thanks).- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Not all depressed people lack confidence.  :)
Many of us have great confidence, ability to work long hours and so
on. Different impact on different people, differing reasons for
depression and different severity.

"Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
> 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> easily."


Part of the trouble I suspect is that its not computers making
decisions. Its an act of parliament made law.
Change the law, change the decision making and the computer program
anyway.

If you want to tell a politician something, simplest solution is tell
that person something. In writing, in person, whatever.
Not pass it through a bunch of people who won't pass it on. Not even
an online petition, which is a nice way of making people think their
views matter (read some sometime, some quite opposite ones at times
for the government to ignore).
A 20,000 written petition delivered to Downing Street about something
seems to carry more weight for some reason....   :)
Seeing your local MP is a start - they all have regular surgeries
though can be useful a couple of weeks in advance to write to their
secretary in Parliament about the issue so the MP is aware. Then go
into more detail in person.

Martin  <><

On 14 May, 22:10, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
> On 14 May, 19:50, Sal_55  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 14 May, 18:58, Robbie  wrote:
>
> > > Andy Pandy wrote:
> > > > "Robbie"  wrote in message
> > > >news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
> > > >>> Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the
> > > > Jobcentre
> > > >>> say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
> > > >>> phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
> > > >>> payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's
> > > > just
> > > >>> for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
> > > > 2
> > > >>> weeks.
> > > >>> I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
> > > > loophole,where I
> > > >>> can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
> > > >>> support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
> > > >>> process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
> > > >>> Thanks again and bye.
> > > >> the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and> > > > Job
> > > >> Seekers Allowance) are:
>
> > > >> 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
> > > >> 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
> > > > £.
> > > >> the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>
> > > >> If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called
> > > > for a
> > > >> medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are> > > > long
> > > >> term sick.
>
> > > >> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
> > > > solve.
>
> > > > Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
> > > > People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
> > > > Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a
> > > > job for too long.
>
> > > > I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
> > > > from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to
> > > > him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's> > > > done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
> > > > wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he
> > > > couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him
> > > > having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't -
> > > > because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.
>
> > > > Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
> > > > because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested
> > > > benefits?
>
> > > > --
> > > > Andy
>
> > > What alternatives could you suggest though? Work is work, and if people
> > > claim they can't work... the benefit system can be a clunking, immovable
> > > machine but it can only react to how people behave and how they see
> > > their lives. If they say they can't work, then it has to accept they
> > > can't work. If they can, then they will fall outside it.
>
> > > How would you change it? Politicians have been trying for at least a
> > > decade to change the way benefits can react to people who want to work> > > but claim they can't. Is it so inflexible and are rules?
>
> > > I know it is, but what about other people? And how would you change things?
>
> > > --
> > > Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Hi Robbie. Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
> > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > easily.
> > Depressed people lack confidence,and maybe allowing them short periods
> > of employment whilst on benefits will help increase some of thier self-
> > esteem?
> > Lastly, if I wanted to tell a politican to change the rules regarding
> > allowing people to work for a short period of time,without losing
> > their benefits entriely,how would I do it? Should I email the
> > Department of Work? Should I start an online petition at the 10
> > Downing Street website? ( I'm feeling quite depressed today,if anyone
> > can be kind enough to do either of the 2 above for me,I'd be fiarly
> > grateful. Thanks).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Not all depressed people lack confidence.  :)
> Many of us have great confidence, ability to work long hours and so
> on. Different impact on different people, differing reasons for
> depression and different severity.
>
> "Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
>
> > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > easily."
>
> Part of the trouble I suspect is that its not computers making
> decisions. Its an act of parliament made law.
> Change the law, change the decision making and the computer program
> anyway.
>
> If you want to tell a politician something, simplest solution is tell
> that person something. In writing, in person, whatever.
> Not pass it through a bunch of people who won't pass it on. Not even
> an online petition, which is a nice way of making people think their
> views matter (read some sometime, some quite opposite ones at times
> for the government to ignore).
> A 20,000 written petition delivered to Downing Street about something
> seems to carry more weight for some reason....   :)
> Seeing your local MP is a start - they all have regular surgeries
> though can be useful a couple of weeks in advance to write to their
> secretary in Parliament about the issue so the MP is aware. Then go
> into more detail in person.
>
> Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The only loophole I can think of right now, is if I was to get
employment outside the UK. Would I still lose my benefits? Although
the cost of travelling abroad just to work is probably going to be
prohibitive.

On 15 May, 19:31, Sal_55  wrote:
> On 14 May, 22:10, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 14 May, 19:50, Sal_55  wrote:
>
> > > On 14 May, 18:58, Robbie  wrote:
>
> > > > Andy Pandy wrote:
> > > > > "Robbie"  wrote in message
> > > > >news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
> > > > >>> Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the
> > > > > Jobcentre
> > > > >>> say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I> > > > >>> phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
> > > > >>> payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's> > > > > just
> > > > >>> for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
> > > > > 2
> > > > >>> weeks.
> > > > >>> I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
> > > > > loophole,where I
> > > > >>> can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
> > > > >>> support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
> > > > >>> process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
> > > > >>> Thanks again and bye.
> > > > >> the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and
> > > > > Job
> > > > >> Seekers Allowance) are:
>
> > > > >> 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
> > > > >> 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
> > > > > £.
> > > > >> the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>
> > > > >> If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called> > > > > for a
> > > > >> medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are
> > > > > long
> > > > >> term sick.
>
> > > > >> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
> > > > > solve.
>
> > > > > Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.> > > > > People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.> > > > > Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a
> > > > > job for too long.
>
> > > > > I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers> > > > > from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to
> > > > > him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's
> > > > > done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
> > > > > wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he
> > > > > couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him
> > > > > having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't -
> > > > > because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.
>
> > > > > Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
> > > > > because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested
> > > > > benefits?
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Andy
>
> > > > What alternatives could you suggest though? Work is work, and if people
> > > > claim they can't work... the benefit system can be a clunking, immovable
> > > > machine but it can only react to how people behave and how they see
> > > > their lives. If they say they can't work, then it has to accept they> > > > can't work. If they can, then they will fall outside it.
>
> > > > How would you change it? Politicians have been trying for at least a> > > > decade to change the way benefits can react to people who want to work
> > > > but claim they can't. Is it so inflexible and are rules?
>
> > > > I know it is, but what about other people? And how would you change things?
>
> > > > --
> > > > Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Hi Robbie. Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
> > > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > > easily.
> > > Depressed people lack confidence,and maybe allowing them short periods> > > of employment whilst on benefits will help increase some of thier self> > > esteem?
> > > Lastly, if I wanted to tell a politican to change the rules regarding
> > > allowing people to work for a short period of time,without losing
> > > their benefits entriely,how would I do it? Should I email the
> > > Department of Work? Should I start an online petition at the 10
> > > Downing Street website? ( I'm feeling quite depressed today,if anyone
> > > can be kind enough to do either of the 2 above for me,I'd be fiarly
> > > grateful. Thanks).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Not all depressed people lack confidence.  :)
> > Many of us have great confidence, ability to work long hours and so
> > on. Different impact on different people, differing reasons for
> > depression and different severity.
>
> > "Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
>
> > > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > > easily."
>
> > Part of the trouble I suspect is that its not computers making
> > decisions. Its an act of parliament made law.
> > Change the law, change the decision making and the computer program
> > anyway.
>
> > If you want to tell a politician something, simplest solution is tell
> > that person something. In writing, in person, whatever.
> > Not pass it through a bunch of people who won't pass it on. Not even
> > an online petition, which is a nice way of making people think their
> > views matter (read some sometime, some quite opposite ones at times
> > for the government to ignore).
> > A 20,000 written petition delivered to Downing Street about something
> > seems to carry more weight for some reason....   :)
> > Seeing your local MP is a start - they all have regular surgeries
> > though can be useful a couple of weeks in advance to write to their
> > secretary in Parliament about the issue so the MP is aware. Then go
> > into more detail in person.
>
> > Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The only loophole I can think of right now, is if I was to get
> employment outside the UK. Would I still lose my benefits? Although
> the cost of travelling abroad just to work is probably going to be
> prohibitive.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Depends on the job. £5k for a week's work in Denver can be OK (tax
return on that is fun), £50 for a week's work in Paris won't be much
use to you.

Might be simpler to look for ways to enhance benefit money. Sell
something on ebay. Rent a space at a car boot or jumble sale and sell
some stuff.

Martin  <><

On 15 May, 21:40, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
> On 15 May, 19:31, Sal_55  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 14 May, 22:10, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
>
> > > On 14 May, 19:50, Sal_55  wrote:
>
> > > > On 14 May, 18:58, Robbie  wrote:
>
> > > > > Andy Pandy wrote:
> > > > > > "Robbie"  wrote in message
> > > > > >news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
> > > > > >>> Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the
> > > > > > Jobcentre
> > > > > >>> say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
> > > > > >>> phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
> > > > > >>> payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's
> > > > > > just
> > > > > >>> for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
> > > > > > 2
> > > > > >>> weeks.
> > > > > >>> I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
> > > > > > loophole,where I
> > > > > >>> can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
> > > > > >>> support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
> > > > > >>> process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
> > > > > >>> Thanks again and bye.
> > > > > >> the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and
> > > > > > Job
> > > > > >> Seekers Allowance) are:
>
> > > > > >> 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
> > > > > >> 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
> > > > > > £.
> > > > > >> the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>
> > > > > >> If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called
> > > > > > for a
> > > > > >> medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are
> > > > > > long
> > > > > >> term sick.
>
> > > > > >> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
> > > > > > solve.
>
> > > > > > Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
> > > > > > People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
> > > > > > Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a
> > > > > > job for too long.
>
> > > > > > I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
> > > > > > from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to
> > > > > > him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's
> > > > > > done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
> > > > > > wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he
> > > > > > couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him
> > > > > > having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't -
> > > > > > because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.> > > > > > Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
> > > > > > because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested
> > > > > > benefits?
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Andy
>
> > > > > What alternatives could you suggest though? Work is work, and if people
> > > > > claim they can't work... the benefit system can be a clunking, immovable
> > > > > machine but it can only react to how people behave and how they see
> > > > > their lives. If they say they can't work, then it has to accept they
> > > > > can't work. If they can, then they will fall outside it.
>
> > > > > How would you change it? Politicians have been trying for at least a
> > > > > decade to change the way benefits can react to people who want to work
> > > > > but claim they can't. Is it so inflexible and are rules?
>
> > > > > I know it is, but what about other people? And how would you change things?
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Hi Robbie. Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
> > > > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > > > easily.
> > > > Depressed people lack confidence,and maybe allowing them short periods
> > > > of employment whilst on benefits will help increase some of thier self-
> > > > esteem?
> > > > Lastly, if I wanted to tell a politican to change the rules regarding
> > > > allowing people to work for a short period of time,without losing
> > > > their benefits entriely,how would I do it? Should I email the
> > > > Department of Work? Should I start an online petition at the 10
> > > > Downing Street website? ( I'm feeling quite depressed today,if anyone
> > > > can be kind enough to do either of the 2 above for me,I'd be fiarly
> > > > grateful. Thanks).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Not all depressed people lack confidence.  :)
> > > Many of us have great confidence, ability to work long hours and so
> > > on. Different impact on different people, differing reasons for
> > > depression and different severity.
>
> > > "Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
>
> > > > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > > > easily."
>
> > > Part of the trouble I suspect is that its not computers making
> > > decisions. Its an act of parliament made law.
> > > Change the law, change the decision making and the computer program
> > > anyway.
>
> > > If you want to tell a politician something, simplest solution is tell
> > > that person something. In writing, in person, whatever.
> > > Not pass it through a bunch of people who won't pass it on. Not even
> > > an online petition, which is a nice way of making people think their
> > > views matter (read some sometime, some quite opposite ones at times
> > > for the government to ignore).
> > > A 20,000 written petition delivered to Downing Street about something
> > > seems to carry more weight for some reason....   :)
> > > Seeing your local MP is a start - they all have regular surgeries
> > > though can be useful a couple of weeks in advance to write to their
> > > secretary in Parliament about the issue so the MP is aware. Then go
> > > into more detail in person.
>
> > > Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > The only loophole I can think of right now, is if I was to get
> > employment outside the UK. Would I still lose my benefits? Although
> > the cost of travelling abroad just to work is probably going to be
> > prohibitive.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Depends on the job. £5k for a week's work in Denver can be OK (tax
> return on that is fun), £50 for a week's work in Paris won't be much
> use to you.
>
> Might be simpler to look for ways to enhance benefit money. Sell
> something on ebay. Rent a space at a car boot or jumble sale and sell
> some stuff.
>
> Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Martin, are you really saying that I can work abroad without having to
declare it to the Jobcentre? I can see the logic, in that I'm not
technically defrauding the UK taxpayer,as I'm working in another
country,but something tells me that this is not allowed.

On 15 May, 21:40, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
> On 15 May, 19:31, Sal_55  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 14 May, 22:10, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
>
> > > On 14 May, 19:50, Sal_55  wrote:
>
> > > > On 14 May, 18:58, Robbie  wrote:
>
> > > > > Andy Pandy wrote:
> > > > > > "Robbie"  wrote in message
> > > > > >news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
> > > > > >>> Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the
> > > > > > Jobcentre
> > > > > >>> say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
> > > > > >>> phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
> > > > > >>> payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's
> > > > > > just
> > > > > >>> for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
> > > > > > 2
> > > > > >>> weeks.
> > > > > >>> I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
> > > > > > loophole,where I
> > > > > >>> can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
> > > > > >>> support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
> > > > > >>> process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
> > > > > >>> Thanks again and bye.
> > > > > >> the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and
> > > > > > Job
> > > > > >> Seekers Allowance) are:
>
> > > > > >> 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
> > > > > >> 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
> > > > > > £.
> > > > > >> the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>
> > > > > >> If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called
> > > > > > for a
> > > > > >> medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are
> > > > > > long
> > > > > >> term sick.
>
> > > > > >> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
> > > > > > solve.
>
> > > > > > Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
> > > > > > People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
> > > > > > Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a
> > > > > > job for too long.
>
> > > > > > I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
> > > > > > from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to
> > > > > > him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's
> > > > > > done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
> > > > > > wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he
> > > > > > couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him
> > > > > > having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't -
> > > > > > because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.> > > > > > Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
> > > > > > because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested
> > > > > > benefits?
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Andy
>
> > > > > What alternatives could you suggest though? Work is work, and if people
> > > > > claim they can't work... the benefit system can be a clunking, immovable
> > > > > machine but it can only react to how people behave and how they see
> > > > > their lives. If they say they can't work, then it has to accept they
> > > > > can't work. If they can, then they will fall outside it.
>
> > > > > How would you change it? Politicians have been trying for at least a
> > > > > decade to change the way benefits can react to people who want to work
> > > > > but claim they can't. Is it so inflexible and are rules?
>
> > > > > I know it is, but what about other people? And how would you change things?
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Hi Robbie. Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
> > > > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > > > easily.
> > > > Depressed people lack confidence,and maybe allowing them short periods
> > > > of employment whilst on benefits will help increase some of thier self-
> > > > esteem?
> > > > Lastly, if I wanted to tell a politican to change the rules regarding
> > > > allowing people to work for a short period of time,without losing
> > > > their benefits entriely,how would I do it? Should I email the
> > > > Department of Work? Should I start an online petition at the 10
> > > > Downing Street website? ( I'm feeling quite depressed today,if anyone
> > > > can be kind enough to do either of the 2 above for me,I'd be fiarly
> > > > grateful. Thanks).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Not all depressed people lack confidence.  :)
> > > Many of us have great confidence, ability to work long hours and so
> > > on. Different impact on different people, differing reasons for
> > > depression and different severity.
>
> > > "Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
>
> > > > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > > > easily."
>
> > > Part of the trouble I suspect is that its not computers making
> > > decisions. Its an act of parliament made law.
> > > Change the law, change the decision making and the computer program
> > > anyway.
>
> > > If you want to tell a politician something, simplest solution is tell
> > > that person something. In writing, in person, whatever.
> > > Not pass it through a bunch of people who won't pass it on. Not even
> > > an online petition, which is a nice way of making people think their
> > > views matter (read some sometime, some quite opposite ones at times
> > > for the government to ignore).
> > > A 20,000 written petition delivered to Downing Street about something
> > > seems to carry more weight for some reason....   :)
> > > Seeing your local MP is a start - they all have regular surgeries
> > > though can be useful a couple of weeks in advance to write to their
> > > secretary in Parliament about the issue so the MP is aware. Then go
> > > into more detail in person.
>
> > > Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > The only loophole I can think of right now, is if I was to get
> > employment outside the UK. Would I still lose my benefits? Although
> > the cost of travelling abroad just to work is probably going to be
> > prohibitive.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Depends on the job. £5k for a week's work in Denver can be OK (tax
> return on that is fun), £50 for a week's work in Paris won't be much
> use to you.
>
> Might be simpler to look for ways to enhance benefit money. Sell
> something on ebay. Rent a space at a car boot or jumble sale and sell
> some stuff.
>
> Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

50 quid for work in Paris is not much at all,but at least you can
enjoy some sightseeing once the work is over.

On 15 May, 23:22, Sal_55  wrote:
> On 15 May, 21:40, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 15 May, 19:31, Sal_55  wrote:
>
> > > On 14 May, 22:10, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:> > > > On 14 May, 19:50, Sal_55  wrote:
>
> > > > > On 14 May, 18:58, Robbie  wrote:
>
> > > > > > Andy Pandy wrote:
> > > > > > > "Robbie"  wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
> > > > > > >>> Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the> > > > > > > Jobcentre
> > > > > > >>> say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
> > > > > > >>> phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
> > > > > > >>> payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > >>> for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
> > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > >>> weeks.
> > > > > > >>> I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
> > > > > > > loophole,where I
> > > > > > >>> can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
> > > > > > >>> support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
> > > > > > >>> process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
> > > > > > >>> Thanks again and bye.
> > > > > > >> the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and
> > > > > > > Job
> > > > > > >> Seekers Allowance) are:
>
> > > > > > >> 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
> > > > > > >> 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
> > > > > > > £.
> > > > > > >> the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>
> > > > > > >> If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called
> > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > >> medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are
> > > > > > > long
> > > > > > >> term sick.
>
> > > > > > >> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
> > > > > > > solve.
>
> > > > > > > Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
> > > > > > > People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
> > > > > > > Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a
> > > > > > > job for too long.
>
> > > > > > > I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
> > > > > > > from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to
> > > > > > > him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's
> > > > > > > done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
> > > > > > > wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he
> > > > > > > couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him
> > > > > > > having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't > > > > > > > because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.
>
> > > > > > > Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
> > > > > > > because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested
> > > > > > > benefits?
>
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Andy
>
> > > > > > What alternatives could you suggest though? Work is work, and if people
> > > > > > claim they can't work... the benefit system can be a clunking, immovable
> > > > > > machine but it can only react to how people behave and how they see
> > > > > > their lives. If they say they can't work, then it has to accept they
> > > > > > can't work. If they can, then they will fall outside it.
>
> > > > > > How would you change it? Politicians have been trying for at least a
> > > > > > decade to change the way benefits can react to people who want to work
> > > > > > but claim they can't. Is it so inflexible and are rules?
>
> > > > > > I know it is, but what about other people? And how would you change things?
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > Hi Robbie. Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
> > > > > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > > > > easily.
> > > > > Depressed people lack confidence,and maybe allowing them short periods
> > > > > of employment whilst on benefits will help increase some of thier self-
> > > > > esteem?
> > > > > Lastly, if I wanted to tell a politican to change the rules regarding
> > > > > allowing people to work for a short period of time,without losing
> > > > > their benefits entriely,how would I do it? Should I email the
> > > > > Department of Work? Should I start an online petition at the 10
> > > > > Downing Street website? ( I'm feeling quite depressed today,if anyone
> > > > > can be kind enough to do either of the 2 above for me,I'd be fiarly
> > > > > grateful. Thanks).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Not all depressed people lack confidence.  :)
> > > > Many of us have great confidence, ability to work long hours and so
> > > > on. Different impact on different people, differing reasons for
> > > > depression and different severity.
>
> > > > "Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
>
> > > > > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > > > > easily."
>
> > > > Part of the trouble I suspect is that its not computers making
> > > > decisions. Its an act of parliament made law.
> > > > Change the law, change the decision making and the computer program
> > > > anyway.
>
> > > > If you want to tell a politician something, simplest solution is tell
> > > > that person something. In writing, in person, whatever.
> > > > Not pass it through a bunch of people who won't pass it on. Not even> > > > an online petition, which is a nice way of making people think their> > > > views matter (read some sometime, some quite opposite ones at times
> > > > for the government to ignore).
> > > > A 20,000 written petition delivered to Downing Street about something
> > > > seems to carry more weight for some reason....   :)
> > > > Seeing your local MP is a start - they all have regular surgeries
> > > > though can be useful a couple of weeks in advance to write to their
> > > > secretary in Parliament about the issue so the MP is aware. Then go
> > > > into more detail in person.
>
> > > > Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > The only loophole I can think of right now, is if I was to get
> > > employment outside the UK. Would I still lose my benefits? Although
> > > the cost of travelling abroad just to work is probably going to be
> > > prohibitive.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Depends on the job. £5k for a week's work in Denver can be OK (tax
> > return on that is fun), £50 for a week's work in Paris won't be much
> > use to you.
>
> > Might be simpler to look for ways to enhance benefit money. Sell
> > something on ebay. Rent a space at a car boot or jumble sale and sell
> > some stuff.
>
> > Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> 50 quid for work in Paris is not much at all,but at least you can
> enjoy some sightseeing once the work is over.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, I suppose you can. And sleep on the streets or in some hostel,
hitchhike around and so on.

Martin  <><

On 15 May, 21:46, Sal_55  wrote:
> On 15 May, 21:40, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 15 May, 19:31, Sal_55  wrote:
>
> > > On 14 May, 22:10, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:> > > > On 14 May, 19:50, Sal_55  wrote:
>
> > > > > On 14 May, 18:58, Robbie  wrote:
>
> > > > > > Andy Pandy wrote:
> > > > > > > "Robbie"  wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:68vu5lF2u279hU1@mid.individual.net...
> > > > > > >>> Thanks,and that is a real concern. If I recall correctly the> > > > > > > Jobcentre
> > > > > > >>> say that you're allowed to work for 15 hours or less. But when I
> > > > > > >>> phoned them they informed me that if I worked and send them the
> > > > > > >>> payslips,then they might completely stop my benefits! And that's
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > >>> for 15 hours, you can imagine their reaction if I was to work for
> > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > >>> weeks.
> > > > > > >>> I'm sorry to sound so desperate,but there has to be a
> > > > > > > loophole,where I
> > > > > > >>> can work for 2 weeks,and I don't mind losing those 2 weeks income
> > > > > > >>> support,so long as I don't have to go through the whole laborious
> > > > > > >>> process of filling in all the forms for a fresh claim.
> > > > > > >>> Thanks again and bye.
> > > > > > >> the rules for work and still receiving benefits (Income Support and
> > > > > > > Job
> > > > > > >> Seekers Allowance) are:
>
> > > > > > >> 1. work must be less than 16 hours per week
> > > > > > >> 2. any earnings over a small amount will be taken into account £ for
> > > > > > > £.
> > > > > > >> the small disregard is small - £15 maximum.
>
> > > > > > >> If you claim benefit for being long term sick you could be called
> > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > >> medical if you do any work, however small, depending on why you are
> > > > > > > long
> > > > > > >> term sick.
>
> > > > > > >> You would probably cause more problems than you would be trying to
> > > > > > > solve.
>
> > > > > > > Yes. This really does sum up the problem with the benefits system.
> > > > > > > People are incentivised *not* to cause problems by trying to work.
> > > > > > > Especially people with mental illness where they aren't able to hold a
> > > > > > > job for too long.
>
> > > > > > > I was talking to a neighbour's son at a party recently. He suffers
> > > > > > > from paranoia and claims the usual range of benefits. I was talking to
> > > > > > > him about web design, xml, asp.net etc and he knows his stuff - he's
> > > > > > > done loads of programming and web design just for something to do. He
> > > > > > > wouldn't be able to hold down a job for long, but that doesn't mean he
> > > > > > > couldn't do paid work on a casual basis - which may even lead onto him
> > > > > > > having the confidence to try a permantent job. But he doesn't > > > > > > > because of the effect on benefits and the hassle it would cause.
>
> > > > > > > Why are we wasting talent and throwing money down the drain, just
> > > > > > > because clueless politicians can't see any alternative to means tested
> > > > > > > benefits?
>
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Andy
>
> > > > > > What alternatives could you suggest though? Work is work, and if people
> > > > > > claim they can't work... the benefit system can be a clunking, immovable
> > > > > > machine but it can only react to how people behave and how they see
> > > > > > their lives. If they say they can't work, then it has to accept they
> > > > > > can't work. If they can, then they will fall outside it.
>
> > > > > > How would you change it? Politicians have been trying for at least a
> > > > > > decade to change the way benefits can react to people who want to work
> > > > > > but claim they can't. Is it so inflexible and are rules?
>
> > > > > > I know it is, but what about other people? And how would you change things?
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > Hi Robbie. Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
> > > > > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > > > > easily.
> > > > > Depressed people lack confidence,and maybe allowing them short periods
> > > > > of employment whilst on benefits will help increase some of thier self-
> > > > > esteem?
> > > > > Lastly, if I wanted to tell a politican to change the rules regarding
> > > > > allowing people to work for a short period of time,without losing
> > > > > their benefits entriely,how would I do it? Should I email the
> > > > > Department of Work? Should I start an online petition at the 10
> > > > > Downing Street website? ( I'm feeling quite depressed today,if anyone
> > > > > can be kind enough to do either of the 2 above for me,I'd be fiarly
> > > > > grateful. Thanks).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Not all depressed people lack confidence.  :)
> > > > Many of us have great confidence, ability to work long hours and so
> > > > on. Different impact on different people, differing reasons for
> > > > depression and different severity.
>
> > > > "Well nowadays you have computers,and if a person works for
>
> > > > > 9 days,then surely it would be possible to deduct 9 days benefit
> > > > > easily."
>
> > > > Part of the trouble I suspect is that its not computers making
> > > > decisions. Its an act of parliament made law.
> > > > Change the law, change the decision making and the computer program
> > > > anyway.
>
> > > > If you want to tell a politician something, simplest solution is tell
> > > > that person something. In writing, in person, whatever.
> > > > Not pass it through a bunch of people who won't pass it on. Not even> > > > an online petition, which is a nice way of making people think their> > > > views matter (read some sometime, some quite opposite ones at times
> > > > for the government to ignore).
> > > > A 20,000 written petition delivered to Downing Street about something
> > > > seems to carry more weight for some reason....   :)
> > > > Seeing your local MP is a start - they all have regular surgeries
> > > > though can be useful a couple of weeks in advance to write to their
> > > > secretary in Parliament about the issue so the MP is aware. Then go
> > > > into more detail in person.
>
> > > > Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > The only loophole I can think of right now, is if I was to get
> > > employment outside the UK. Would I still lose my benefits? Although
> > > the cost of travelling abroad just to work is probably going to be
> > > prohibitive.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Depends on the job. £5k for a week's work in Denver can be OK (tax
> > return on that is fun), £50 for a week's work in Paris won't be much
> > use to you.
>
> > Might be simpler to look for ways to enhance benefit money. Sell
> > something on ebay. Rent a space at a car boot or jumble sale and sell
> > some stuff.
>
> > Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Martin, are you really saying that I can work abroad without having to
> declare it to the Jobcentre? I can see the logic, in that I'm not
> technically defrauding the UK taxpayer,as I'm working in another
> country,but something tells me that this is not allowed.- Hide quoted text> - Show quoted text -

You would be defrauding the taxpayer if you had any income that wasn't
declared. If the jobcentre are paying you benefits for the same period
they would I suspect at lea