x-no-archive:yes

Housing benefit (I receive as a disabled person)

Apparently from 02/04/2007 to 06/04/2008 (53 weeks)

Old rate £90.22 New rate £86.68 Difference £3.54

Total overpayment £187.62

"Payments to your rent account will be reduced by £9.15 / week from
07/04/2008 [the letter is dated 11/04/2008] until the overpayment has
been cleared"

Ok I am really moderating my anger here. Maybe someone can explain to
me why this happens? I am asking here because getting answers out of
the people I get through to at the DWP is like pulling teeth.

Why, with all the money they spend of "organisation" can't they just
nip next door (the landlord is in the same building!) and say "hey
bob, just checking if the rent on XXX xxx person has changed lately so
we can avoid f**king up?" or something to that effect. They could use
computers. Emails. Anything. Is it SO HARD? The Landlord department
and the benefit department are in the SAME TOWN HALL. Yet they have to
mail ME, so I can mail someone who sits next to them 9-5 Monday to
Friday.

What's more this "notification" that they will be "recovering" an
"overpayment" comes after I made a polite enquiry as to why the
Landlord keeps telling me I have to pay different rents. It's almost
like their reward for my interest is "hey, you're going to be £9 worse
off for the next 20 weeks".
Well gee thanks. And they wonder why I want to contact them as little
as possible.

If you read all the way through, thanks and I love you. I really had
to get this off my chest.

bornfree wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
> 
> Housing benefit (I receive as a disabled person)
> 
> Apparently from 02/04/2007 to 06/04/2008 (53 weeks)
> 
> Old rate £90.22 New rate £86.68 Difference £3.54
> 
> Total overpayment £187.62
> 
> "Payments to your rent account will be reduced by £9.15 / week from
> 07/04/2008 [the letter is dated 11/04/2008] until the overpayment has
> been cleared"
> 
> Ok I am really moderating my anger here. Maybe someone can explain to
> me why this happens? I am asking here because getting answers out of
> the people I get through to at the DWP is like pulling teeth.

Probably 'cos you should be talking to the HB dept of your local council?

Mike

On 26 Apr, 12:49, Mike 
wrote:
> bornfree wrote:
> > x-no-archive:yes
>
> > Housing benefit (I receive as a disabled person)
>
> > Apparently from 02/04/2007 to 06/04/2008 (53 weeks)
>
> > Old rate £90.22 New rate £86.68 Difference £3.54
>
> > Total overpayment £187.62
>
> > "Payments to your rent account will be reduced by £9.15 / week from
> > 07/04/2008 [the letter is dated 11/04/2008] until the overpayment has
> > been cleared"
>
> > Ok I am really moderating my anger here. Maybe someone can explain to
> > me why this happens? I am asking here because getting answers out of
> > the people I get through to at the DWP is like pulling teeth.
>
> Probably 'cos you should be talking to the HB dept of your local council?
>

That's what I meant. Smart alec.

bornfree wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
<content snipped to honour x-no-archive header>
> Housing benefit (I receive as a disabled person)
> 


You don't say exactly what the cause of the overpayment was, but it 
should say in your overpayment notification. I guess from the rest of 
your post that somehow the HB dept had too high a rent figure for you. 
This would have been a computer error in updating your rent at the 
beginning of 2007.
If this was higher then your total rent, then you don't need to worry as 
your rent account will be in credit by the same amount, and will now 
just drift down to the zero-line as the benefit is 'clawed-back'. In 
that case you wont need to pay any extra to the rents dept.

Having said that, is it that they actually treated your water rates as 
eligible for benefit? In that case, you should have been paying water 
rates in the past year, and the same will apply as above. If you weren't 
paying any water rates, you will now have to pay the water rates for 
this year as well as paying the extra £9.15 to prevent your rent account 
from going into arrears.

On a brighter note, if you were not getting full benefit (your total 
rent minus your water rates), then you can appeal arguing that this 
payment is unrecoverable, on the basis that it was local authority erro, 
and you could not reasonably have been expected to know that you were 
being overpaid. The reason it matters that you weren't getting full 
benefit is that if your benefit was more than your rent liability, then 
the council as landlord, and as a 'person affected' under the regs could 
reasonably have known that an overpayment was occuring, thus making the 
debt recoverable. In this scenarion though, I would say you have good 
grounds to make a complaint agains the council and ask for recompense in 
the form of a Discretionary Housing Payment to cover the overpaid amount.

If I have misunderstood, and the overpayment arose because your income 
changed, then post back, as any appeal should take a different line of 
attack.

On 5 May, 16:33, anthonyberet <nos...@me.invalid> wrote:
> bornfree wrote:
> > x-no-archive:yes
>
> <content snipped to honour x-no-archive header>
>
> > Housing benefit (I receive as a disabled person)
>
> You don't say exactly what the cause of the overpayment was, but it
> should say in your overpayment notification. I guess from the rest of
> your post that somehow the HB dept had too high a rent figure for you.
> This would have been a computer error in updating your rent at the
> beginning of 2007.
> If this was higher then your total rent, then you don't need to worry as
> your rent account will be in credit by the same amount, and will now
> just drift down to the zero-line as the benefit is 'clawed-back'. In
> that case you wont need to pay any extra to the rents dept.
>
> Having said that, is it that they actually treated your water rates as
> eligible for benefit? In that case, you should have been paying water
> rates in the past year, and the same will apply as above. If you weren't
> paying any water rates, you will now have to pay the water rates for
> this year as well as paying the extra £9.15 to prevent your rent account> from going into arrears.
>
> On a brighter note, if you were not getting full benefit (your total
> rent minus your water rates), then you can appeal arguing that this
> payment is unrecoverable, on the basis that it was local authority erro,
> and you could not reasonably have been expected to know that you were
> being overpaid. The reason it matters that you weren't getting full
> benefit is that if your benefit was more than your rent liability, then
> the council as landlord, and as a 'person affected' under the regs could
> reasonably have known that an overpayment was occuring, thus making the
> debt recoverable. In this scenarion though, I would say you have good
> grounds to make a complaint agains the council and ask for recompense in
> the form of a Discretionary Housing Payment to cover the overpaid amount.
>
> If I have misunderstood, and the overpayment arose because your income
> changed, then post back, as any appeal should take a different line of
> attack.

No, it was their fault. Who shall I contact to appeal?

On 6 May, 09:26, bornfree  wrote:
> On 5 May, 16:33, anthonyberet <nos...@me.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > bornfree wrote:
> > > x-no-archive:yes
>
> > <content snipped to honour x-no-archive header>
>
> > > Housing benefit (I receive as a disabled person)
>
> > You don't say exactly what the cause of the overpayment was, but it
> > should say in your overpayment notification. I guess from the rest of
> > your post that somehow the HB dept had too high a rent figure for you.
> > This would have been a computer error in updating your rent at the
> > beginning of 2007.
> > If this was higher then your total rent, then you don't need to worry as> > your rent account will be in credit by the same amount, and will now
> > just drift down to the zero-line as the benefit is 'clawed-back'. In
> > that case you wont need to pay any extra to the rents dept.
>
> > Having said that, is it that they actually treated your water rates as
> > eligible for benefit? In that case, you should have been paying water
> > rates in the past year, and the same will apply as above. If you weren't> > paying any water rates, you will now have to pay the water rates for
> > this year as well as paying the extra £9.15 to prevent your rent account
> > from going into arrears.
>
> > On a brighter note, if you were not getting full benefit (your total
> > rent minus your water rates), then you can appeal arguing that this
> > payment is unrecoverable, on the basis that it was local authority erro,> > and you could not reasonably have been expected to know that you were
> > being overpaid. The reason it matters that you weren't getting full
> > benefit is that if your benefit was more than your rent liability, then
> > the council as landlord, and as a 'person affected' under the regs could> > reasonably have known that an overpayment was occuring, thus making the
> > debt recoverable. In this scenarion though, I would say you have good
> > grounds to make a complaint agains the council and ask for recompense in> > the form of a Discretionary Housing Payment to cover the overpaid amount> > If I have misunderstood, and the overpayment arose because your income
> > changed, then post back, as any appeal should take a different line of
> > attack.
>
> No, it was their fault. Who shall I contact to appeal?- Hide quoted text -> - Show quoted text -

Just write back to the office that sent you the overpayment
notification.
It will be reviewed internally first (unless already done) and then
passed to an external appeal tribunal.
Make sure your letter mentions your wish to appeal.
Something like:
"I am not satisfied with your decision about (fill in blank)
Please review this decision.
If your review does not change the decision in my favour then please
accept this as a letter of appeal"

If I was being very thorough I would ask for the review, then wait for
the answer, then write back requesting an appeal if it doesn't go your
way.
There are time limits for the asking for a review, res[ponding to a
review, asking for an appeal.
Make sure you write and then respond promptly.

Seek specialist advice to assist in your appeal.
(CAB advisor, welfare rights advisor etc)

Marvin wrote:
> On 6 May, 09:26, bornfree  wrote:
>> On 5 May, 16:33, anthonyberet <nos...@me.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> bornfree wrote:
>>>> x-no-archive:yes
>>> <content snipped to honour x-no-archive header>
>>>> Housing benefit (I receive as a disabled person)
>>> You don't say exactly what the cause of the overpayment was, but it
>>> should say in your overpayment notification. I guess from the rest of
>>> your post that somehow the HB dept had too high a rent figure for you.
>>> This would have been a computer error in updating your rent at the
>>> beginning of 2007.
>>> If this was higher then your total rent, then you don't need to worry as
>>> your rent account will be in credit by the same amount, and will now
>>> just drift down to the zero-line as the benefit is 'clawed-back'. In
>>> that case you wont need to pay any extra to the rents dept.
>>> Having said that, is it that they actually treated your water rates as
>>> eligible for benefit? In that case, you should have been paying water
>>> rates in the past year, and the same will apply as above. If you weren't
>>> paying any water rates, you will now have to pay the water rates for
>>> this year as well as paying the extra £9.15 to prevent your rent account
>>> from going into arrears.
>>> On a brighter note, if you were not getting full benefit (your total
>>> rent minus your water rates), then you can appeal arguing that this
>>> payment is unrecoverable, on the basis that it was local authority erro,
>>> and you could not reasonably have been expected to know that you were
>>> being overpaid. The reason it matters that you weren't getting full
>>> benefit is that if your benefit was more than your rent liability, then
>>> the council as landlord, and as a 'person affected' under the regs could
>>> reasonably have known that an overpayment was occuring, thus making the
>>> debt recoverable. In this scenarion though, I would say you have good
>>> grounds to make a complaint agains the council and ask for recompense in
>>> the form of a Discretionary Housing Payment to cover the overpaid amount.
>>> If I have misunderstood, and the overpayment arose because your income
>>> changed, then post back, as any appeal should take a different line of
>>> attack.
>> No, it was their fault. Who shall I contact to appeal?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Just write back to the office that sent you the overpayment
> notification.
> It will be reviewed internally first (unless already done) and then
> passed to an external appeal tribunal.
> Make sure your letter mentions your wish to appeal.
> Something like:
> "I am not satisfied with your decision about (fill in blank)
> Please review this decision.
> If your review does not change the decision in my favour then please
> accept this as a letter of appeal"
> 
> If I was being very thorough I would ask for the review, then wait for
> the answer, then write back requesting an appeal if it doesn't go your
> way.
> There are time limits for the asking for a review, res[ponding to a
> review, asking for an appeal.
> Make sure you write and then respond promptly.
> 
> Seek specialist advice to assist in your appeal.
> (CAB advisor, welfare rights advisor etc)
> 

Asking for a review then waiting before appealing can be dangerous as 
there is only 28 days from a decision in which to appeal.

far better to write at the bottom of the letter something along the lines:

I ask for a review of the decision of (date). If after a review the 
decision is unchanged then I ask that this letter be treated as an 
appeal against that decision.

-- 
Robbie

Thanks for your encouragement all, especially Anthony. I found someone
to work on my appeal at my boroughs housing advice service.

Robbie wrote:
> Marvin wrote:
>> On 6 May, 09:26, bornfree  wrote:
>>> On 5 May, 16:33, anthonyberet <nos...@me.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> bornfree wrote:
>>>>> x-no-archive:yes
>>>> <content snipped to honour x-no-archive header>
>>>>> Housing benefit (I receive as a disabled person)
>>>> You don't say exactly what the cause of the overpayment was, but it
>>>> should say in your overpayment notification. I guess from the rest of
>>>> your post that somehow the HB dept had too high a rent figure for you.
>>>> This would have been a computer error in updating your rent at the
>>>> beginning of 2007.
>>>> If this was higher then your total rent, then you don't need to 
>>>> worry as
>>>> your rent account will be in credit by the same amount, and will now
>>>> just drift down to the zero-line as the benefit is 'clawed-back'. In
>>>> that case you wont need to pay any extra to the rents dept.
>>>> Having said that, is it that they actually treated your water rates as
>>>> eligible for benefit? In that case, you should have been paying water
>>>> rates in the past year, and the same will apply as above. If you 
>>>> weren't
>>>> paying any water rates, you will now have to pay the water rates for
>>>> this year as well as paying the extra £9.15 to prevent your rent 
>>>> account
>>>> from going into arrears.
>>>> On a brighter note, if you were not getting full benefit (your total
>>>> rent minus your water rates), then you can appeal arguing that this
>>>> payment is unrecoverable, on the basis that it was local authority 
>>>> erro,
>>>> and you could not reasonably have been expected to know that you were
>>>> being overpaid. The reason it matters that you weren't getting full
>>>> benefit is that if your benefit was more than your rent liability, then
>>>> the council as landlord, and as a 'person affected' under the regs 
>>>> could
>>>> reasonably have known that an overpayment was occuring, thus making the
>>>> debt recoverable. In this scenarion though, I would say you have good
>>>> grounds to make a complaint agains the council and ask for 
>>>> recompense in
>>>> the form of a Discretionary Housing Payment to cover the overpaid 
>>>> amount.
>>>> If I have misunderstood, and the overpayment arose because your income
>>>> changed, then post back, as any appeal should take a different line of
>>>> attack.
>>> No, it was their fault. Who shall I contact to appeal?- Hide quoted 
>>> text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Just write back to the office that sent you the overpayment
>> notification.
>> It will be reviewed internally first (unless already done) and then
>> passed to an external appeal tribunal.
>> Make sure your letter mentions your wish to appeal.
>> Something like:
>> "I am not satisfied with your decision about (fill in blank)
>> Please review this decision.
>> If your review does not change the decision in my favour then please
>> accept this as a letter of appeal"
>>
>> If I was being very thorough I would ask for the review, then wait for
>> the answer, then write back requesting an appeal if it doesn't go your
>> way.
>> There are time limits for the asking for a review, res[ponding to a
>> review, asking for an appeal.
>> Make sure you write and then respond promptly.
>>
>> Seek specialist advice to assist in your appeal.
>> (CAB advisor, welfare rights advisor etc)
>>
> 
> Asking for a review then waiting before appealing can be dangerous as 
> there is only 28 days from a decision in which to appeal.
> 
> far better to write at the bottom of the letter something along the lines:
> 
> I ask for a review of the decision of (date). If after a review the 
> decision is unchanged then I ask that this letter be treated as an 
> appeal against that decision.
> 
The appeals process actually requires that the LA look again at the 
decision before sending any appeal to the tribunal, so you can skip the 
first step. Your wording would be fine though.

bornfree wrote:
> On 5 May, 16:33, anthonyberet <nos...@me.invalid> wrote:
>> bornfree wrote:
>>> x-no-archive:yes
>> <content snipped to honour x-no-archive header>
>>
>>> Housing benefit (I receive as a disabled person)
>> You don't say exactly what the cause of the overpayment was, but it
>> should say in your overpayment notification. I guess from the rest of
>> your post that somehow the HB dept had too high a rent figure for you.
>> This would have been a computer error in updating your rent at the
>> beginning of 2007.
>> If this was higher then your total rent, then you don't need to worry as
>> your rent account will be in credit by the same amount, and will now
>> just drift down to the zero-line as the benefit is 'clawed-back'. In
>> that case you wont need to pay any extra to the rents dept.
>>
>> Having said that, is it that they actually treated your water rates as
>> eligible for benefit? In that case, you should have been paying water
>> rates in the past year, and the same will apply as above. If you weren't
>> paying any water rates, you will now have to pay the water rates for
>> this year as well as paying the extra £9.15 to prevent your rent account
>> from going into arrears.
>>
>> On a brighter note, if you were not getting full benefit (your total
>> rent minus your water rates), then you can appeal arguing that this
>> payment is unrecoverable, on the basis that it was local authority erro,
>> and you could not reasonably have been expected to know that you were
>> being overpaid. The reason it matters that you weren't getting full
>> benefit is that if your benefit was more than your rent liability, then
>> the council as landlord, and as a 'person affected' under the regs could
>> reasonably have known that an overpayment was occuring, thus making the
>> debt recoverable. In this scenarion though, I would say you have good
>> grounds to make a complaint agains the council and ask for recompense in
>> the form of a Discretionary Housing Payment to cover the overpaid amount.
>>
>> If I have misunderstood, and the overpayment arose because your income
>> changed, then post back, as any appeal should take a different line of
>> attack.
> 
> No, it was their fault. Who shall I contact to appeal?

You contact the council to appeal, and they look at their decision 
again, before passing it to the tribunals service if they think they 
were right.

To clarify though, I was asking what was the change that brought the 
overpayment about, not whose fault it was. This will affect the line of 
attack you take in your appeal. Was it that they treated your rent as 
higher than it actually was?

On 15 May, 00:30, anthonyberet <nos...@me.invalid> wrote:
>
> To clarify though, I was asking what was the change that brought the
> overpayment about, not whose fault it was. This will affect the line of
> attack you take in your appeal. Was it that they treated your rent as
> higher than it actually was?

Yes, that's how it sounds from the letter.

bornfree wrote:
> On 15 May, 00:30, anthonyberet <nos...@me.invalid> wrote:
>> To clarify though, I was asking what was the change that brought the
>> overpayment about, not whose fault it was. This will affect the line of
>> attack you take in your appeal. Was it that they treated your rent as
>> higher than it actually was?
> 
> Yes, that's how it sounds from the letter.

Ok, then there is no point in appealing as the new award is correct. 
(unless by weirdness they now have too low a figure for you).
The overpayment is recoverable, as even though it was the council's 
benefits dept's fault, they as landlord could reasonably have been 
expected to know that the overpayment was occuring.

It wont matter though, as your rent account will be in credit by the 
same amount, the the recovery of the overpayment will just level it out.