On Dec 4, 11:35 am, Robbie  wrote:
> ghostwhist...@googlemail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 1, 8:37 pm, Robbie  wrote:
> >> melanie.fullw...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> >>> On 30 Nov, 22:56, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:> >>>> On 30 Nov, 21:19, "Niteawk"  wrote:
> >>>>>  wrote in message
> >>>>>news:057ddd5b-4ede-4451-9ebd-b05954a4d290@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> >>>>> On 30 Nov, 20:20, "Niteawk"  wrote:
> >>>>>>  wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:5086fc8b-fe87-4139-9a94-0606624c3c2b@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>>> On 30 Nov, 15:54, "Niteawk"  wrote:
> >>>>>>>  wrote in message
> >>>>>>> Back when I started work, I could never have got a mortgage on my
> >>>>>>> starting wage either.
> >>>>>>> But a few years, and one promotion, later, managed to get a mortgage.
> >>>>>>> NMW is a starting wage, not an end wage.
> >>>>>>> Dont talk bollocks, its got fuck all to do with starting wage. The NMW
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> the average rate of pay offered for nearly all the jobs advertised in
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> JC, jobs that have no prospects other than to claim HB to make ends
> >>>>>>> meet.
> >>>>>>> Its a starting point all right, if you go back in time by 20 years, then
> >>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>> could live on todays NMW.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>>>> Its the minimum wage, which means it is the starting wage.
> >>>>>> Cobblers, its a rate of pay well below todays cost of living.
> >>>>>> I've been on thejobcentresite this week, checking for certain jobs.> >>>>>> Most had starting pay well above NMW.
> >>>>>> But then again, I wasn't looking at burger bar or shelf stacker jobs.
> >>>>>> Maybe you need to look beyond unskilled jobs.
> >>>>>> Yes, SKILLED jobs pay fairly reasonable rates but most people at the JC
> >>>>>> are
> >>>>>> unskilled and the way the JC operates, you are not allowed to get the
> >>>>>> skills
> >>>>>> needed. Then theres the lack of availability of courses to contend with,
> >>>>>> cap
> >>>>>> that off with no little or no training being offered and you are well and
> >>>>>> truly screwed.
> >>>>>> Exactly what level would you have NMW set at? And would you mind
> >>>>>> paying increased costs or taxes to cover it?
> >>>>>> It does not matter what I think the NMW should be, I would be more than
> >>>>>> happy to pay hundreds of thousands in tax as long as I am left with enough
> >>>>>> to live on after deductions, it all relative.
> >>>>>> Now if you want a job that will allow you to buy a house........
> >>>>>> That would mean starting salary about £50K? Pretty sure NMW isn't> >>>>>> going to become £30 an hour for a very long time.
> >>>>>> And this is why they need to do something otherwise there will be more
> >>>>>> than
> >>>>>> just housing bubbles bursting. You cant go on pricing more and more people
> >>>>>> out of the market and then expect them to work to maintain a lifestyle
> >>>>>> equivalent to being on the dole.
> >>>>>> PS You would need to earn a lot more than £30 an hour to actually earn 50k
> >>>>>> take home. You will be in the 40% tax bracket above 34k, 22% thereafter,
> >>>>>> then there is NI of 11% so even 50k basic is not that fantastic after the
> >>>>>> tax man gets hold of it. I think this is what the NMW should be ;)
> >>>>> Ummm.....mortgage calculations are done on gross. Not net.
> >>>>> So 40%, 11%, 12.8%, 22% etc don't apply.
> >>>>> Being able to afford repayments is another matter......
> >>>>> Fine saying the government need to do something. Yet when they do
> >>>>> something, people complain about it......
> >>>>> Northern Rock? Railtrack? Rover? Need I go on?
> >>>>> Yes we do complain because all they are doing is giving away billions of tax
> >>>>> payers money and plum contracts to their cronies in exchange for
> >>>>> contributions to their party. Cronies who then end up in the House of Lords
> >>>>> with peerages and honours having made millions in profit for running our
> >>>>> public services into the ground, like the underground for eg, and no one is
> >>>>> to blame for this of course. Need I go on?- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>> Giving away billions, yes they do that. Spend it like it isn't their
> >>>> money.
> >>>> The contracts is a bit of an odd thing - EU tendering rules are a bit> >>>> of a bugger at the best of times. Hard to stop someone bidding for the
> >>>> work even when they make a mess elsewhere.
> >>>> Though pre-selection criteria can rule out some competitors.
> >>>> Once contracts are awarded however, they tend to be kept. Even if the> >>>> company is running at a loss to do it.
> >>>> Annoys hell out of some contractors, but some don't seem to understand
> >>>> their own costs to do work.
> >>>> Be interesting to see where thenewinvestigation into donations
> >>>> goes.
> >>>> Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> Does anyone in this discussion have any idea why the staff at the
> >>> Jobcentre Plus have such a bad attitude? Is it their stupid training?
> >>> They all have the same one line of thought, with on regard for
> >>> anything in between, or considered a different case. You are treated
> >>> like a battery hen - just passing through; then ending up in the broth> >>> usually. Their attitude stinks and gets right up my nose! You feel you> >>> are under police interrogation. Treated like muck on their shoes -
> >>> shocking. I've had to take a lot of crap and quite honestly I'm fed
> >>> up . Some compassion wouldn't go a miss - especially what I've been
> >>> through. Oh sorry, I'm not a human being with feelings; I'm a robot
> >>> identified by an NI number. Customer Care - my a*se! I could say worse> >>> - but I won't stoop that low. Idiots!!!!!
> >> I don't know about Job Centres, but speaking as someone who has worked
> >> for the DWP in its various incarnations (though no longer working there> >> I found that most staff were pleasant enough though there was the odd
> >> one or two who were rude and unhelpful. However, the way that staff get> >> spoken to by some customers wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else. In the> >> office I worked at we had staff seriously assaulted, followed when going
> >> home, threatened, screens smashed, claimants smashing down doors to get> >> into the staff areas, claimants fighting amongst each other, once with
> >> baseball bats, several bomb threats, someone walking in with an
> >> incendiary device, staff cars being smashed up and more and that wasn't> >> untypical of the offices in the area. In fact some offices had it worse> >> - Brixton office a few miles away had a car driven through the front
> >> window with claimants nearly killed. All because a giro didn't turn up.> >> On top of that, being called a cunt and worse for the umpteenth time in> >> a day gets to the point where it's difficult to always smile when the
> >> next person you see sits down in front of you. It does test the patience
> >> after a while and you are on your guard before the person in front of
> >> you speaks, In my office three colleagues had nervous breakdowns - and
> >> these occurred in the office in front of several staff - in the first
> >> year I worked there. I can tell you it's not a pleasant thing to witness.
>
> >> And as for excuses people come out with why they can't do something
> >> (mainly finding a job, though we didn't see as many as the equivalent of
> >> the old job centre dealt with that side of things), you hear it all
> >> within the first few months and the worst of it all is seeing the same
> >> few faces causing much of the disruption in reception and those same few
> >> people moaning that life dealt them a shit hand. Then attempting to
> >> cause as much disruption as possible in the office.
>
> >> Customer care should be a priority but on top of all the chaos coming
> >> from the public side of things you also have management changing
> >> priorities on a whim and targets being set that are just impossible to
> >> reach. Now there are massive staff cutbacks which has made the situation
> >> worse.
>
> >> That said, if someone isn't of a nervous disposition I would recommend
> >> working in a benefits office for six months - you soon learn about human
> >> nature though ultimately it can make you a more cynical person.
> >> --
> >> Robbie
>
> > you report behaviour i daresay isn't the norm. it doesn't excuse the
> > sort of snide behaviour i've had to tolerate from the dwp and i have
> > never EVER been anything but polite and courteous to them. Why
> > shouldn't I? I'm not some lone nutter.
>
> > So please don't use these unacceptable and uncommon examples as yet
> > more ways to keep the unemployed down.
>
> > As for politeness, well let's just say you can kill with kindness.
>
> These are uncommon examples - almost every day there was an incident in
> the reception area and at least once a week we had a screen smashed. I
> could give you a list of incidents at offices up and down the country of
> assaults and violence.
>
> No other worker would put up with the way that DWP staff get talked to.
> I know the claimants are often in a precarious position, often with no
> money and deeply in debt but that doesn't make it ant less palpable when
> you're getting ready for work to think you've got a day ahead where you
> may be getting called worse than shit - most companies would ban such a
> customer but at the DWP you can't (obviously). But staff have to put up
> with it.
>
> No, it's not uncommon. And how does me pointing this out keep the
> unemployed down? And how is it unacceptable? Plus realise, there's more
> to the DWP than just the unemployed - they form less than 20% of the
> customers.
>
> --
> Robbie

I think it's uncommon overall; you just happened to get the place
where it always kicked off - not that there's anexcuse for it. Anymore
than there is for JC staff to treat their 'customers' like crap
either. But then we the customers don't have the recourse that you lot
do; we have to lump it. So while I don't remotely condone the
behaviour of idiots i have very little sympathy for staff.

Pointing it out keeps us down because it's another way the JC tar
everyone with the same brush; society looks down its nose at the
unemployed and there are fewer sections of the community so roundly
reviled. Pointing out the unacceptable behaviour of the few does
little for the rest of us, people like me who are sick and tired of
getting the shit end of the stick from staff who are little more than
cunts. Sorry.

wrote in message 
news:bee116d9-b131-4401-9cad-a94c4f1ced02@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 6 Dec, 09:58, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>  wrote in message
>>
>> news:5f942d1f-4138-4c0f-8cd7-72195faff4f4@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 5, 6:49 pm, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>> >>  wrote in message
>> >> > what use are free stamps when employers don't receive or properly
>> >> > record the arrival of an application? Then you get your benefit
>> >> > stopped ebcause you have no proof you applied.
>>
>> >> This has happened to me on more than one occasion, the twats were
>> >> contacting
>> >> employers up to 6 months after I applied and then accused me of 
>> >> failing
>> >> to
>> >> apply. The only reason I remember applying is I always apply for the 
>> >> jobs
>> >> they gave because they are recorded on the system and they do check
>> >> At the end of the day they cant justify leaving it that long and 
>> >> expect
>> >> employers to remember one single application from 6 months earlier,
>> >> unless
>> >> they keep records, which they dont, there is no way they can know with
>> >> any
>> >> certanty. Hundreds if not thousands of people could have applied. They
>> >> try
>> >> it on to see if they can catch you out but nothing ever came of it. 
>> >> They
>> >> cant really prove this anyway as long as you maintain you applied.
>>
>> > Unfortunately what happens is they tell you a 'doubt has arisen as to
>> > your claim to jsa'. Then, regardless of what actually happened, your
>> > money is immediately stopped. Right then your life is basically
>> > screwed.
>>
>> I can only speak for myself, its up to you how youdealwith this type of
>> situation.
>> I suppose they will stop your money if you sit back and say nothing.
>> As this had happened to me on at least 3 occasions, my money wasnt 
>> stopped.
>> It could have been if I didnt defend myself.
>>
>> After that, say they gave me a work instruction, ie apply for a vacancy. 
>> As
>> soon as I had applied, I told them in the JC on my next signing on day 
>> and
>> insisted that my adviser check it, which she did. There was no excuse for
>> them after that.
>>
>> They are always thinking of ways to get rid of you, likewise you have to
>> keep thinking of ways to prevent that from happening.
>>
>> Signing on nowadays is a full time job ;)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! I'VE GOT A JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And it wasnt from the JC i'll wager.

Niteawk wrote:
> 
>  wrote in message 
> news:bee116d9-b131-4401-9cad-a94c4f1ced02@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On 6 Dec, 09:58, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>>  wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:5f942d1f-4138-4c0f-8cd7-72195faff4f4@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com... 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Dec 5, 6:49 pm, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>> >>  wrote in message
>>> >> > what use are free stamps when employers don't receive or properly
>>> >> > record the arrival of an application? Then you get your benefit
>>> >> > stopped ebcause you have no proof you applied.
>>>
>>> >> This has happened to me on more than one occasion, the twats were
>>> >> contacting
>>> >> employers up to 6 months after I applied and then accused me of >> 
>>> failing
>>> >> to
>>> >> apply. The only reason I remember applying is I always apply for 
>>> the >> jobs
>>> >> they gave because they are recorded on the system and they do check
>>> >> At the end of the day they cant justify leaving it that long and 
>>> >> expect
>>> >> employers to remember one single application from 6 months earlier,
>>> >> unless
>>> >> they keep records, which they dont, there is no way they can know 
>>> with
>>> >> any
>>> >> certanty. Hundreds if not thousands of people could have applied. 
>>> They
>>> >> try
>>> >> it on to see if they can catch you out but nothing ever came of 
>>> it. >> They
>>> >> cant really prove this anyway as long as you maintain you applied.
>>>
>>> > Unfortunately what happens is they tell you a 'doubt has arisen as to
>>> > your claim to jsa'. Then, regardless of what actually happened, your
>>> > money is immediately stopped. Right then your life is basically
>>> > screwed.
>>>
>>> I can only speak for myself, its up to you how youdealwith this type of
>>> situation.
>>> I suppose they will stop your money if you sit back and say nothing.
>>> As this had happened to me on at least 3 occasions, my money wasnt 
>>> stopped.
>>> It could have been if I didnt defend myself.
>>>
>>> After that, say they gave me a work instruction, ie apply for a 
>>> vacancy. As
>>> soon as I had applied, I told them in the JC on my next signing on 
>>> day and
>>> insisted that my adviser check it, which she did. There was no excuse 
>>> for
>>> them after that.
>>>
>>> They are always thinking of ways to get rid of you, likewise you have to
>>> keep thinking of ways to prevent that from happening.
>>>
>>> Signing on nowadays is a full time job ;)- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! I'VE GOT A JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> And it wasnt from the JC i'll wager.

Does it matter? You're supposed to say "well done" not find another 
reason to be sarcastic about the JC!

-- 
Robbie

"Robbie"  wrote in message 
news:5s7sm7F17p6l7U1@mid.individual.net...
> Niteawk wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! I'VE GOT A JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> And it wasnt from the JC i'll wager.
>
> Does it matter? You're supposed to say "well done" not find another reason 
> to be sarcastic about the JC!
>

It does matter, if she got that job through the JC then I will have to 
adjust my stats to read 0.000000001 Why am I supposed to say well done, is 
that in the rules? of course I wish her well, that goes without saying. I 
can get a job anytime I like in the charity sector. Plenty of jobs around if 
you dont mind working for nothing ;)