On 4 Dec, 11:35, Robbie  wrote:
> ghostwhist...@googlemail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 1, 8:37 pm, Robbie  wrote:
> >> melanie.fullw...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> >>> On 30 Nov, 22:56, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:> >>>> On 30 Nov, 21:19, "Niteawk"  wrote:
> >>>>>  wrote in message
> >>>>>news:057ddd5b-4ede-4451-9ebd-b05954a4d290@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> >>>>> On 30 Nov, 20:20, "Niteawk"  wrote:
> >>>>>>  wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:5086fc8b-fe87-4139-9a94-0606624c3c2b@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>>> On 30 Nov, 15:54, "Niteawk"  wrote:
> >>>>>>>  wrote in message
> >>>>>>> Back when I started work, I could never have got a mortgage on my
> >>>>>>> starting wage either.
> >>>>>>> But a few years, and one promotion, later, managed to get a mortgage.
> >>>>>>> NMW is a starting wage, not an end wage.
> >>>>>>> Dont talk bollocks, its got fuck all to do with starting wage. The NMW
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> the average rate of pay offered for nearly all the jobs advertised in
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> JC, jobs that have no prospects other than to claim HB to make ends
> >>>>>>> meet.
> >>>>>>> Its a starting point all right, if you go back in time by 20 years, then
> >>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>> could live on todays NMW.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>>>> Its the minimum wage, which means it is the starting wage.
> >>>>>> Cobblers, its a rate of pay well below todays cost of living.
> >>>>>> I've been on thejobcentresite this week, checking for certain jobs.> >>>>>> Most had starting pay well above NMW.
> >>>>>> But then again, I wasn't looking at burger bar or shelf stacker jobs.
> >>>>>> Maybe you need to look beyond unskilled jobs.
> >>>>>> Yes, SKILLED jobs pay fairly reasonable rates but most people at the JC
> >>>>>> are
> >>>>>> unskilled and the way the JC operates, you are not allowed to get the
> >>>>>> skills
> >>>>>> needed. Then theres the lack of availability of courses to contend with,
> >>>>>> cap
> >>>>>> that off with no little or no training being offered and you are well and
> >>>>>> truly screwed.
> >>>>>> Exactly what level would you have NMW set at? And would you mind
> >>>>>> paying increased costs or taxes to cover it?
> >>>>>> It does not matter what I think the NMW should be, I would be more than
> >>>>>> happy to pay hundreds of thousands in tax as long as I am left with enough
> >>>>>> to live on after deductions, it all relative.
> >>>>>> Now if you want a job that will allow you to buy a house........
> >>>>>> That would mean starting salary about £50K? Pretty sure NMW isn't> >>>>>> going to become £30 an hour for a very long time.
> >>>>>> And this is why they need to do something otherwise there will be more
> >>>>>> than
> >>>>>> just housing bubbles bursting. You cant go on pricing more and more people
> >>>>>> out of the market and then expect them to work to maintain a lifestyle
> >>>>>> equivalent to being on the dole.
> >>>>>> PS You would need to earn a lot more than £30 an hour to actually earn 50k
> >>>>>> take home. You will be in the 40% tax bracket above 34k, 22% thereafter,
> >>>>>> then there is NI of 11% so even 50k basic is not that fantastic after the
> >>>>>> tax man gets hold of it. I think this is what the NMW should be ;)
> >>>>> Ummm.....mortgage calculations are done on gross. Not net.
> >>>>> So 40%, 11%, 12.8%, 22% etc don't apply.
> >>>>> Being able to afford repayments is another matter......
> >>>>> Fine saying the government need to do something. Yet when they do
> >>>>> something, people complain about it......
> >>>>> Northern Rock? Railtrack? Rover? Need I go on?
> >>>>> Yes we do complain because all they are doing is giving away billions of tax
> >>>>> payers money and plum contracts to their cronies in exchange for
> >>>>> contributions to their party. Cronies who then end up in the House of Lords
> >>>>> with peerages and honours having made millions in profit for running our
> >>>>> public services into the ground, like the underground for eg, and no one is
> >>>>> to blame for this of course. Need I go on?- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>> Giving away billions, yes they do that. Spend it like it isn't their
> >>>> money.
> >>>> The contracts is a bit of an odd thing - EU tendering rules are a bit> >>>> of a bugger at the best of times. Hard to stop someone bidding for the
> >>>> work even when they make a mess elsewhere.
> >>>> Though pre-selection criteria can rule out some competitors.
> >>>> Once contracts are awarded however, they tend to be kept. Even if the> >>>> company is running at a loss to do it.
> >>>> Annoys hell out of some contractors, but some don't seem to understand
> >>>> their own costs to do work.
> >>>> Be interesting to see where thenewinvestigation into donations
> >>>> goes.
> >>>> Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> Does anyone in this discussion have any idea why the staff at the
> >>> Jobcentre Plus have such a bad attitude? Is it their stupid training?
> >>> They all have the same one line of thought, with on regard for
> >>> anything in between, or considered a different case. You are treated
> >>> like a battery hen - just passing through; then ending up in the broth> >>> usually. Their attitude stinks and gets right up my nose! You feel you> >>> are under police interrogation. Treated like muck on their shoes -
> >>> shocking. I've had to take a lot of crap and quite honestly I'm fed
> >>> up . Some compassion wouldn't go a miss - especially what I've been
> >>> through. Oh sorry, I'm not a human being with feelings; I'm a robot
> >>> identified by an NI number. Customer Care - my a*se! I could say worse> >>> - but I won't stoop that low. Idiots!!!!!
> >> I don't know about Job Centres, but speaking as someone who has worked
> >> for the DWP in its various incarnations (though no longer working there> >> I found that most staff were pleasant enough though there was the odd
> >> one or two who were rude and unhelpful. However, the way that staff get> >> spoken to by some customers wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else. In the> >> office I worked at we had staff seriously assaulted, followed when going
> >> home, threatened, screens smashed, claimants smashing down doors to get> >> into the staff areas, claimants fighting amongst each other, once with
> >> baseball bats, several bomb threats, someone walking in with an
> >> incendiary device, staff cars being smashed up and more and that wasn't> >> untypical of the offices in the area. In fact some offices had it worse> >> - Brixton office a few miles away had a car driven through the front
> >> window with claimants nearly killed. All because a giro didn't turn up.> >> On top of that, being called a cunt and worse for the umpteenth time in> >> a day gets to the point where it's difficult to always smile when the
> >> next person you see sits down in front of you. It does test the patience
> >> after a while and you are on your guard before the person in front of
> >> you speaks, In my office three colleagues had nervous breakdowns - and
> >> these occurred in the office in front of several staff - in the first
> >> year I worked there. I can tell you it's not a pleasant thing to witness.
>
> >> And as for excuses people come out with why they can't do something
> >> (mainly finding a job, though we didn't see as many as the equivalent of
> >> the old job centre dealt with that side of things), you hear it all
> >> within the first few months and the worst of it all is seeing the same
> >> few faces causing much of the disruption in reception and those same few
> >> people moaning that life dealt them a shit hand. Then attempting to
> >> cause as much disruption as possible in the office.
>
> >> Customer care should be a priority but on top of all the chaos coming
> >> from the public side of things you also have management changing
> >> priorities on a whim and targets being set that are just impossible to
> >> reach. Now there are massive staff cutbacks which has made the situation
> >> worse.
>
> >> That said, if someone isn't of a nervous disposition I would recommend
> >> working in a benefits office for six months - you soon learn about human
> >> nature though ultimately it can make you a more cynical person.
> >> --
> >> Robbie
>
> > you report behaviour i daresay isn't the norm. it doesn't excuse the
> > sort of snide behaviour i've had to tolerate from the dwp and i have
> > never EVER been anything but polite and courteous to them. Why
> > shouldn't I? I'm not some lone nutter.
>
> > So please don't use these unacceptable and uncommon examples as yet
> > more ways to keep the unemployed down.
>
> > As for politeness, well let's just say you can kill with kindness.
>
> These are uncommon examples - almost every day there was an incident in
> the reception area and at least once a week we had a screen smashed. I
> could give you a list of incidents at offices up and down the country of
> assaults and violence.
>
> No other worker would put up with the way that DWP staff get talked to.
> I know the claimants are often in a precarious position, often with no
> money and deeply in debt but that doesn't make it ant less palpable when
> you're getting ready for work to think you've got a day ahead where you
> may be getting called worse than shit - most companies would ban such a
> customer but at the DWP you can't (obviously). But staff have to put up
> with it.
>
> No, it's not uncommon. And how does me pointing this out keep the
> unemployed down? And how is it unacceptable? Plus realise, there's more
> to the DWP than just the unemployed - they form less than 20% of the
> customers.
>
> --
> Robbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Few other large organisations accept abuse of staff. Some even take a
zero tolerance stance.
Yet DWP does tend to bend over backwards rather than ban people from
the offices (that can include staff).

Funny really, the exact same people that give local authority, social
services and DWP so much trouble are just fine with the staff I work
with.
Possibly because we treat them as adults, with respect and don't talk
down to them. They also don't have a reason to come into the building
annoyed at the staff, which helps.  :)

Martin  <><