On Dec 1, 8:37 pm, Robbie  wrote:
> melanie.fullw...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> > On 30 Nov, 22:56, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
> >> On 30 Nov, 21:19, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> >>>  wrote in message
> >>>news:057ddd5b-4ede-4451-9ebd-b05954a4d290@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com..> >>> On 30 Nov, 20:20, "Niteawk"  wrote:
> >>>>  wrote in message
> >>>>news:5086fc8b-fe87-4139-9a94-0606624c3c2b@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com> >>>> On 30 Nov, 15:54, "Niteawk"  wrote:
> >>>>>  wrote in message
> >>>>> Back when I started work, I could never have got a mortgage on my
> >>>>> starting wage either.
> >>>>> But a few years, and one promotion, later, managed to get a mortgage> >>>>> NMW is a starting wage, not an end wage.
> >>>>> Dont talk bollocks, its got fuck all to do with starting wage. The NMW
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> the average rate of pay offered for nearly all the jobs advertised in
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> JC, jobs that have no prospects other than to claim HB to make ends
> >>>>> meet.
> >>>>> Its a starting point all right, if you go back in time by 20 years, then
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> could live on todays NMW.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>> Its the minimum wage, which means it is the starting wage.
> >>>> Cobblers, its a rate of pay well below todays cost of living.
> >>>> I've been on thejobcentresite this week, checking for certain jobs.
> >>>> Most had starting pay well above NMW.
> >>>> But then again, I wasn't looking at burger bar or shelf stacker jobs.> >>>> Maybe you need to look beyond unskilled jobs.
> >>>> Yes, SKILLED jobs pay fairly reasonable rates but most people at the JC
> >>>> are
> >>>> unskilled and the way the JC operates, you are not allowed to get the> >>>> skills
> >>>> needed. Then theres the lack of availability of courses to contend with,
> >>>> cap
> >>>> that off with no little or no training being offered and you are well and
> >>>> truly screwed.
> >>>> Exactly what level would you have NMW set at? And would you mind
> >>>> paying increased costs or taxes to cover it?
> >>>> It does not matter what I think the NMW should be, I would be more than
> >>>> happy to pay hundreds of thousands in tax as long as I am left with enough
> >>>> to live on after deductions, it all relative.
> >>>> Now if you want a job that will allow you to buy a house........
> >>>> That would mean starting salary about £50K? Pretty sure NMW isn't
> >>>> going to become £30 an hour for a very long time.
> >>>> And this is why they need to do something otherwise there will be more
> >>>> than
> >>>> just housing bubbles bursting. You cant go on pricing more and more people
> >>>> out of the market and then expect them to work to maintain a lifestyle
> >>>> equivalent to being on the dole.
> >>>> PS You would need to earn a lot more than £30 an hour to actually earn 50k
> >>>> take home. You will be in the 40% tax bracket above 34k, 22% thereafter,
> >>>> then there is NI of 11% so even 50k basic is not that fantastic after the
> >>>> tax man gets hold of it. I think this is what the NMW should be ;)
> >>> Ummm.....mortgage calculations are done on gross. Not net.
> >>> So 40%, 11%, 12.8%, 22% etc don't apply.
> >>> Being able to afford repayments is another matter......
> >>> Fine saying the government need to do something. Yet when they do
> >>> something, people complain about it......
> >>> Northern Rock? Railtrack? Rover? Need I go on?
> >>> Yes we do complain because all they are doing is giving away billions of tax
> >>> payers money and plum contracts to their cronies in exchange for
> >>> contributions to their party. Cronies who then end up in the House of Lords
> >>> with peerages and honours having made millions in profit for running our
> >>> public services into the ground, like the underground for eg, and no one is
> >>> to blame for this of course. Need I go on?- Hide quoted text -
> >>> - Show quoted text -
> >> Giving away billions, yes they do that. Spend it like it isn't their
> >> money.
> >> The contracts is a bit of an odd thing - EU tendering rules are a bit
> >> of a bugger at the best of times. Hard to stop someone bidding for the
> >> work even when they make a mess elsewhere.
> >> Though pre-selection criteria can rule out some competitors.
>
> >> Once contracts are awarded however, they tend to be kept. Even if the
> >> company is running at a loss to do it.
> >> Annoys hell out of some contractors, but some don't seem to understand
> >> their own costs to do work.
>
> >> Be interesting to see where thenewinvestigation into donations
> >> goes.
>
> >> Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Does anyone in this discussion have any idea why the staff at the
> > Jobcentre Plus have such a bad attitude? Is it their stupid training?
> > They all have the same one line of thought, with on regard for
> > anything in between, or considered a different case. You are treated
> > like a battery hen - just passing through; then ending up in the broth
> > usually. Their attitude stinks and gets right up my nose! You feel you
> > are under police interrogation. Treated like muck on their shoes -
> > shocking. I've had to take a lot of crap and quite honestly I'm fed
> > up . Some compassion wouldn't go a miss - especially what I've been
> > through. Oh sorry, I'm not a human being with feelings; I'm a robot
> > identified by an NI number. Customer Care - my a*se! I could say worse
> > - but I won't stoop that low. Idiots!!!!!
>
> I don't know about Job Centres, but speaking as someone who has worked
> for the DWP in its various incarnations (though no longer working there)
> I found that most staff were pleasant enough though there was the odd
> one or two who were rude and unhelpful. However, the way that staff get
> spoken to by some customers wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else. In the
> office I worked at we had staff seriously assaulted, followed when going
> home, threatened, screens smashed, claimants smashing down doors to get
> into the staff areas, claimants fighting amongst each other, once with
> baseball bats, several bomb threats, someone walking in with an
> incendiary device, staff cars being smashed up and more and that wasn't
> untypical of the offices in the area. In fact some offices had it worse
> - Brixton office a few miles away had a car driven through the front
> window with claimants nearly killed. All because a giro didn't turn up.
> On top of that, being called a cunt and worse for the umpteenth time in
> a day gets to the point where it's difficult to always smile when the
> next person you see sits down in front of you. It does test the patience
> after a while and you are on your guard before the person in front of
> you speaks, In my office three colleagues had nervous breakdowns - and
> these occurred in the office in front of several staff - in the first
> year I worked there. I can tell you it's not a pleasant thing to witness.
>
> And as for excuses people come out with why they can't do something
> (mainly finding a job, though we didn't see as many as the equivalent of
> the old job centre dealt with that side of things), you hear it all
> within the first few months and the worst of it all is seeing the same
> few faces causing much of the disruption in reception and those same few
> people moaning that life dealt them a shit hand. Then attempting to
> cause as much disruption as possible in the office.
>
> Customer care should be a priority but on top of all the chaos coming
> from the public side of things you also have management changing
> priorities on a whim and targets being set that are just impossible to
> reach. Now there are massive staff cutbacks which has made the situation
> worse.
>
> That said, if someone isn't of a nervous disposition I would recommend
> working in a benefits office for six months - you soon learn about human
> nature though ultimately it can make you a more cynical person.
> --
> Robbie

you report behaviour i daresay isn't the norm. it doesn't excuse the
sort of snide behaviour i've had to tolerate from the dwp and i have
never EVER been anything but polite and courteous to them. Why
shouldn't I? I'm not some lone nutter.

So please don't use these unacceptable and uncommon examples as yet
more ways to keep the unemployed down.

As for politeness, well let's just say you can kill with kindness.

wrote in message 
news:bcf3be7c-011a-49d6-b7af-90a27ed2cfdd@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On 4 Dec, 22:04, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>  wrote in message
>>
>> news:c34da2a1-ca68-4505-bc69-cb10ac61bdaa@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 4 Dec, 21:10, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>> >> "Robbie"  wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:5rlp78F12bnvfU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> >> > Niteawk wrote:
>>
>> >> >> "Robbie"  wrote in message
>> >> >>news:5rln4lF14uh77U1@mid.individual.net...
>> >> >>> Niteawk wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>> "Robbie"  wrote in message
>> >> >>>>news:5rlfmkF151r30U2@mid.individual.net...
>> >> >>>>> Niteawk wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>>>>  wrote in message >
>>
>> >> >>>>>>> Seems to be a fair bit of screw them on both sides.Plusa good
>> >> >>>>>>> chunk
>> >> >>>>>>> of trying to do the rigfht thing on each side too.
>>
>> >> >>>>>> I dont think so, a very high percentage will be signing on for 
>> >> >>>>>> the
>> >> >>>>>> first
>> >> >>>>>> time ever.Plusa fair percentage will not be out of work for 
>> >> >>>>>> long,
>> >> >>>>>> you
>> >> >>>>>> cant say these people have a screw them attitude. Maybe you 
>> >> >>>>>> can,
>> >> >>>>>> this
>> >> >>>>>> proves what some of us have been saying, you tar everyone with 
>> >> >>>>>> the
>> >> >>>>>> same
>> >> >>>>>> brush.
>>
>> >> >>>>> it does work both ways...
>>
>> >> >>>> Oh no it does not, there is a big difference, you lot make the 
>> >> >>>> rules
>> >> >>>> and call the tune, like I said before, its down to you and how 
>> >> >>>> you
>> >> >>>> treat people.
>>
>> >> >>> The staff don't make the rules. And as for "its down to you and 
>> >> >>> how
>> >> >>> you
>> >> >>> treat people" - how do you want to be treated when you eventually
>> >> >>> find a
>> >> >>> job? I bet you wouldn't want to be treated like shite? Why should 
>> >> >>> DWP
>> >> >>> staff be treated any different? Or are the DWP staff fair game?
>> >> >>> --
>>
>> >> >> Fair game when they deliver bullshit, there are no problems if you
>> >> >> treat
>> >> >> people fairly. As in life if you want respect you have to earn it,
>> >> >> muck
>> >> >> people about and suffer the consequences. You need to stop 
>> >> >> operating
>> >> >> at
>> >> >> idiot level, pretending to help people and then offering them dead 
>> >> >> end
>> >> >> low paid jobs, people are not the fools you think they are.
>>
>> >> > People turn up to do a job - whether it's working for the leccy 
>> >> > board,
>> >> > the
>> >> > Co-Op or the DWP. Do you think the DWP staff go home and plan the 
>> >> > next
>> >> > day? The staff work for the money - albeit it isn't much - then they
>> >> > leave
>> >> > the office and go home.
>> >> >The only people that care are the claimants!
>>
>> >> Ahh Mr Bond, at last you are making sense, thats why we dont need your 
>> >> ND
>> >> muppets pretending to care. We can do it for ourselves so butt out
>> >> anytime
>> >> soon and let us get on with sorting our own lives out. I would be in 
>> >> work
>> >> now if it wasnt for ND.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > I agree, I can do a better job search on my own. I mistakenly thought
>> > the New Deal was there to assist with your job search. I would be in
>> > work in now if it wasn't for all the messing about. Had a right job
>> > getting my travel fares reimbursed today. Begrudged - you'd think it
>> > was coming out of their pockets!
>>
>> Of course you can do a better job, you know what you want and how to get 
>> it.
>> What these muppets dont realise is they have created a system with rules
>> that you must follow instead of devoting your time to finding the job you
>> want, not some crap they keep chucking at you. Do this do that, be here, 
>> go
>> there, apply for this. You are left with no time to do anything except 
>> what
>> they tell you to do.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> But what makes you think benefit is tied to allowing you to find the
> job you want?
> Isn't it to finding a job, any job?
>

Its all I am geared up to do, my head is filled with crap that I must comply 
with. I have no time to think about anything else.

wrote in message 
news:92e913d6-5a3d-4bc2-b0ae-aa0320a69736@j44g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 5, 3:19 am, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>> "Robbie"  wrote in message >>
>>
>> > I've lived on the dole and I found a job easy to get - like clicking a
>> > finger. Anyone who whinges about how life hard is on the dole is 
>> > wasting
>> > their life away. Get some backbone and stop farting about with New Deal
>> > and that shite - ND is there to remind you that you need to get a job,
>> > it's not there to keep you on benefits for another six months.
>>
>> > --
>>
>> Never a truer word spoken in jest, I am clicking my fingers right now and
>> fuck all is happening, I must be doing it wrong.
>> Hang on, there is a job to do, time for another cuppa.
>
> clearly you need some training in clicking your fingers!
>

I only got as far as table tapping, they were going to train us up on door 
bells graduating to full intercom use within 6 months. I completed the job 
advert recognition module with flying colours, there might be a vacancy for 
the finger clicking course, it depends on how well I do at identifying fire 
exits, fire alarms and fire extinguishers, its a tough course but I think I 
can handle it. I am sure I saw a fire extinguisher once, although they said 
it could have been a mirage.

wrote in message
>
> End result: employer says person didn't apply JC naturally sides with
> them (and that's my expeience) and loses all benefit straight away.
>

Like I say they tried it with me, cant prove it beyond reasonable doubt so 
there is nothing they can do.

wrote in message news:9e6a0b8c-c82b-40f8-8cfe-

>> - Show quoted text -
>
> There are 190,000 real charities. Only a small percentage have any
> paid staff at all.
> Funding tends to dictate how many staff are on the payroll - that
> first, before even any need for more people to do the work.
>
> Did you ask to go and work for a charity? Or were you pushed into it?
>

Ordered to go of course, they never ask you to do anything, they gave me a 
choice of 5 placements to choose from a list of about 20 placements, guess 
what, all the worthwhile placements were gone, I say they did not exist in 
the first place, it was done like that to make you think you have a choice.
When I asked about the other 15 or so possibilities on the list, they were 
gone also, the only ones they had were for charities.

wrote in message 
news:5f942d1f-4138-4c0f-8cd7-72195faff4f4@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 5, 6:49 pm, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>  wrote in message
>> > what use are free stamps when employers don't receive or properly
>> > record the arrival of an application? Then you get your benefit
>> > stopped ebcause you have no proof you applied.
>>
>> This has happened to me on more than one occasion, the twats were 
>> contacting
>> employers up to 6 months after I applied and then accused me of failing 
>> to
>> apply. The only reason I remember applying is I always apply for the jobs
>> they gave because they are recorded on the system and they do check
>> At the end of the day they cant justify leaving it that long and expect
>> employers to remember one single application from 6 months earlier, 
>> unless
>> they keep records, which they dont, there is no way they can know with 
>> any
>> certanty. Hundreds if not thousands of people could have applied. They 
>> try
>> it on to see if they can catch you out but nothing ever came of it. They
>> cant really prove this anyway as long as you maintain you applied.
>
> Unfortunately what happens is they tell you a 'doubt has arisen as to
> your claim to jsa'. Then, regardless of what actually happened, your
> money is immediately stopped. Right then your life is basically
> screwed.

I can only speak for myself, its up to you how you deal with this type of 
situation.
I suppose they will stop your money if you sit back and say nothing.
As this had happened to me on at least 3 occasions, my money wasnt stopped. 
It could have been if I didnt defend myself.

After that, say they gave me a work instruction, ie apply for a vacancy. As 
soon as I had applied, I told them in the JC on my next signing on day and 
insisted that my adviser check it, which she did. There was no excuse for 
them after that.

They are always thinking of ways to get rid of you, likewise you have to 
keep thinking of ways to prevent that from happening.

Signing on nowadays is a full time job ;)