On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:38:00 -0800 (PST), "mart2306@hotmail.com"
 wrote:

>
>And how would the government tackle the cost of housing?
>Most properties are not owned by them. Most rents are not set by
>council or government.
>
>Martin  <><


Fair rents should be enforced.
For my street it's 85 quid a week decided by the rent officer. Council
charges 75 and private landlords who keep buying the houses round here
charge 135-160.

If rents were set and fixed at a more sensible level then house prices
would not have risen massively and caused the boom and bust senario
we're about to see.
-- 
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk

wrote in message 
news:52df76d0-ba8c-4a91-8542-22df308d2697@w40g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On 30 Nov, 13:43, melanie.fullw...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On 30 Nov, 09:36, mogga  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:38:00 -0800 (PST), "mart2...@hotmail.com"
>
> >  wrote:
>
> > >And how would the government tackle the cost of housing?
> > >Most properties are not owned by them. Most rents are not set by
> > >council or government.
>
> > >Martin  <><
>
> > Fair rents should be enforced.
> > For my street it's 85 quid a week decided by the rent officer. Council
> > charges 75 and private landlords who keep buying the houses round here
> > charge 135-160.
>
> > If rents were set and fixed at a more sensible level then house prices
> > would not have risen massively and caused the boom and bust senario
> > we're about to see.
> > --http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
>
> I'd never be able to get a mortgage on NMW! I couldn't afford to rent
> privately either - have to rent a council/housing association. I think
> it costs about £35 per person a week on food alone, and then there's
> the cost of running a car................nightmare!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Back when I started work, I could never have got a mortgage on my
starting wage either.
But a few years, and one promotion, later, managed to get a mortgage.
NMW is a starting wage, not an end wage.

Dont talk bollocks, its got fuck all to do with starting wage. The NMW is 
the average rate of pay offered for nearly all the jobs advertised in the 
JC, jobs that have no prospects other than to claim HB to make ends meet.

Its a starting point all right, if you go back in time by 20 years, then you 
could live on todays NMW.

"mogga"  wrote in message 
news:0amvk3hj4gktbhf9n92rg4f970qaifqqci@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:38:00 -0800 (PST), "mart2306@hotmail.com"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>And how would the government tackle the cost of housing?
>>Most properties are not owned by them. Most rents are not set by
>>council or government.
>>
>>Martin  <><
>
>
> Fair rents should be enforced.
> For my street it's 85 quid a week decided by the rent officer. Council
> charges 75 and private landlords who keep buying the houses round here
> charge 135-160.
>
> If rents were set and fixed at a more sensible level then house prices
> would not have risen massively and caused the boom and bust senario
> we're about to see.
> -- 

You should dispute that with the rent officer, they are supposed to pay rent 
according to the market value, this is taken between the highest and lowest 
rent for property in the area, so if the average is 135 - 160, with most 
costing say 145 then they should pay at least 145, that is the average.

Basically the RDO can see there is a problem with the cost of housing and 
keep looking for ways to get out of paying current market rents, you can 
appeal against an RDO decision. How this works, I dont know, its never got 
that far for me. What you do is show them a few price lists from local 
estate agents, and the latest property section from local news papers, then 
its up to them to justify their decision by showing you a list of properties 
that are cheaper in the area where you want / have to rent, obviously they 
cant so they pay up.

If there is private property for rent in your area at 85 pw then they should 
provide you with a list to prove that, and I am not talking about a single 
room within a house, but a list of private houses, you must ask for this the 
next time you see them, I think you will find that you stand more chance of 
getting to see the Rosetta stone than a list of property at their prices :)

wrote in message 
news:5086fc8b-fe87-4139-9a94-0606624c3c2b@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On 30 Nov, 15:54, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
> Back when I started work, I could never have got a mortgage on my
> starting wage either.
> But a few years, and one promotion, later, managed to get a mortgage.
> NMW is a starting wage, not an end wage.
>
> Dont talk bollocks, its got fuck all to do with starting wage. The NMW is
> the average rate of pay offered for nearly all the jobs advertised in the
> JC, jobs that have no prospects other than to claim HB to make ends meet.
>
> Its a starting point all right, if you go back in time by 20 years, then 
> you
> could live on todays NMW.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Its the minimum wage, which means it is the starting wage.

Cobblers, its a rate of pay well below todays cost of living.






I've been on the jobcentre site this week, checking for certain jobs.
Most had starting pay well above NMW.

But then again, I wasn't looking at burger bar or shelf stacker jobs.
Maybe you need to look beyond unskilled jobs.


Yes, SKILLED jobs pay fairly reasonable rates but most people at the JC are 
unskilled and the way the JC operates, you are not allowed to get the skills 
needed. Then theres the lack of availability of courses to contend with, cap 
that off with no little or no training being offered and you are well and 
truly screwed.





Exactly what level would you have NMW set at? And would you mind
paying increased costs or taxes to cover it?


It does not matter what I think the NMW should be, I would be more than 
happy to pay hundreds of thousands in tax as long as I am left with enough 
to live on after deductions, it all relative.





Now if you want a job that will allow you to buy a house........
That would mean starting salary about £50K? Pretty sure NMW isn't
going to become £30 an hour for a very long time.

And this is why they need to do something otherwise there will be more than 
just housing bubbles bursting. You cant go on pricing more and more people 
out of the market and then expect them to work to maintain a lifestyle 
equivalent to being on the dole.

PS You would need to earn a lot more than £30 an hour to actually earn 50k 
take home. You will be in the 40% tax bracket above 34k, 22% thereafter, 
then there is NI of 11% so even 50k basic is not that fantastic after the 
tax man gets hold of it. I think this is what the NMW should be ;)

wrote in message 
news:057ddd5b-4ede-4451-9ebd-b05954a4d290@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On 30 Nov, 20:20, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:5086fc8b-fe87-4139-9a94-0606624c3c2b@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 30 Nov, 15:54, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>
> >  wrote in message
> > Back when I started work, I could never have got a mortgage on my
> > starting wage either.
> > But a few years, and one promotion, later, managed to get a mortgage.
> > NMW is a starting wage, not an end wage.
>
> > Dont talk bollocks, its got fuck all to do with starting wage. The NMW 
> > is
> > the average rate of pay offered for nearly all the jobs advertised in 
> > the
> > JC, jobs that have no prospects other than to claim HB to make ends 
> > meet.
>
> > Its a starting point all right, if you go back in time by 20 years, then
> > you
> > could live on todays NMW.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Its the minimum wage, which means it is the starting wage.
>
> Cobblers, its a rate of pay well below todays cost of living.
>
> I've been on the jobcentre site this week, checking for certain jobs.
> Most had starting pay well above NMW.
>
> But then again, I wasn't looking at burger bar or shelf stacker jobs.
> Maybe you need to look beyond unskilled jobs.
>
> Yes, SKILLED jobs pay fairly reasonable rates but most people at the JC 
> are
> unskilled and the way the JC operates, you are not allowed to get the 
> skills
> needed. Then theres the lack of availability of courses to contend with, 
> cap
> that off with no little or no training being offered and you are well and
> truly screwed.
>
> Exactly what level would you have NMW set at? And would you mind
> paying increased costs or taxes to cover it?
>
> It does not matter what I think the NMW should be, I would be more than
> happy to pay hundreds of thousands in tax as long as I am left with enough
> to live on after deductions, it all relative.
>
> Now if you want a job that will allow you to buy a house........
> That would mean starting salary about £50K? Pretty sure NMW isn't
> going to become £30 an hour for a very long time.
>
> And this is why they need to do something otherwise there will be more 
> than
> just housing bubbles bursting. You cant go on pricing more and more people
> out of the market and then expect them to work to maintain a lifestyle
> equivalent to being on the dole.
>
> PS You would need to earn a lot more than £30 an hour to actually earn 50k
> take home. You will be in the 40% tax bracket above 34k, 22% thereafter,
> then there is NI of 11% so even 50k basic is not that fantastic after the
> tax man gets hold of it. I think this is what the NMW should be ;)

Ummm.....mortgage calculations are done on gross. Not net.
So 40%, 11%, 12.8%, 22% etc don't apply.
Being able to afford repayments is another matter......

Fine saying the government need to do something. Yet when they do
something, people complain about it......
Northern Rock? Railtrack? Rover? Need I go on?


Yes we do complain because all they are doing is giving away billions of tax 
payers money and plum contracts to their cronies in exchange for 
contributions to their party. Cronies who then end up in the House of Lords 
with peerages and honours having made millions in profit for running our 
public services into the ground, like the underground for eg, and no one is 
to blame for this of course. Need I go on?

melanie.fullwood@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On 30 Nov, 22:56, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
>> On 30 Nov, 21:19, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>  wrote in message
>>> news:057ddd5b-4ede-4451-9ebd-b05954a4d290@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>> On 30 Nov, 20:20, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>>>  wrote in message
>>>> news:5086fc8b-fe87-4139-9a94-0606624c3c2b@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On 30 Nov, 15:54, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>>>>  wrote in message
>>>>> Back when I started work, I could never have got a mortgage on my
>>>>> starting wage either.
>>>>> But a few years, and one promotion, later, managed to get a mortgage.
>>>>> NMW is a starting wage, not an end wage.
>>>>> Dont talk bollocks, its got fuck all to do with starting wage. The NMW
>>>>> is
>>>>> the average rate of pay offered for nearly all the jobs advertised in
>>>>> the
>>>>> JC, jobs that have no prospects other than to claim HB to make ends
>>>>> meet.
>>>>> Its a starting point all right, if you go back in time by 20 years, then
>>>>> you
>>>>> could live on todays NMW.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> Its the minimum wage, which means it is the starting wage.
>>>> Cobblers, its a rate of pay well below todays cost of living.
>>>> I've been on thejobcentresite this week, checking for certain jobs.
>>>> Most had starting pay well above NMW.
>>>> But then again, I wasn't looking at burger bar or shelf stacker jobs.
>>>> Maybe you need to look beyond unskilled jobs.
>>>> Yes, SKILLED jobs pay fairly reasonable rates but most people at the JC
>>>> are
>>>> unskilled and the way the JC operates, you are not allowed to get the
>>>> skills
>>>> needed. Then theres the lack of availability of courses to contend with,
>>>> cap
>>>> that off with no little or no training being offered and you are well and
>>>> truly screwed.
>>>> Exactly what level would you have NMW set at? And would you mind
>>>> paying increased costs or taxes to cover it?
>>>> It does not matter what I think the NMW should be, I would be more than
>>>> happy to pay hundreds of thousands in tax as long as I am left with enough
>>>> to live on after deductions, it all relative.
>>>> Now if you want a job that will allow you to buy a house........
>>>> That would mean starting salary about £50K? Pretty sure NMW isn't
>>>> going to become £30 an hour for a very long time.
>>>> And this is why they need to do something otherwise there will be more
>>>> than
>>>> just housing bubbles bursting. You cant go on pricing more and more people
>>>> out of the market and then expect them to work to maintain a lifestyle
>>>> equivalent to being on the dole.
>>>> PS You would need to earn a lot more than £30 an hour to actually earn 50k
>>>> take home. You will be in the 40% tax bracket above 34k, 22% thereafter,
>>>> then there is NI of 11% so even 50k basic is not that fantastic after the
>>>> tax man gets hold of it. I think this is what the NMW should be ;)
>>> Ummm.....mortgage calculations are done on gross. Not net.
>>> So 40%, 11%, 12.8%, 22% etc don't apply.
>>> Being able to afford repayments is another matter......
>>> Fine saying the government need to do something. Yet when they do
>>> something, people complain about it......
>>> Northern Rock? Railtrack? Rover? Need I go on?
>>> Yes we do complain because all they are doing is giving away billions of tax
>>> payers money and plum contracts to their cronies in exchange for
>>> contributions to their party. Cronies who then end up in the House of Lords
>>> with peerages and honours having made millions in profit for running our
>>> public services into the ground, like the underground for eg, and no one is
>>> to blame for this of course. Need I go on?- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> Giving away billions, yes they do that. Spend it like it isn't their
>> money.
>> The contracts is a bit of an odd thing - EU tendering rules are a bit
>> of a bugger at the best of times. Hard to stop someone bidding for the
>> work even when they make a mess elsewhere.
>> Though pre-selection criteria can rule out some competitors.
>>
>> Once contracts are awarded however, they tend to be kept. Even if the
>> company is running at a loss to do it.
>> Annoys hell out of some contractors, but some don't seem to understand
>> their own costs to do work.
>>
>> Be interesting to see where thenewinvestigation into donations
>> goes.
>>
>> Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Does anyone in this discussion have any idea why the staff at the
> Jobcentre Plus have such a bad attitude? Is it their stupid training?
> They all have the same one line of thought, with on regard for
> anything in between, or considered a different case. You are treated
> like a battery hen - just passing through; then ending up in the broth
> usually. Their attitude stinks and gets right up my nose! You feel you
> are under police interrogation. Treated like muck on their shoes -
> shocking. I've had to take a lot of crap and quite honestly I'm fed
> up . Some compassion wouldn't go a miss - especially what I've been
> through. Oh sorry, I'm not a human being with feelings; I'm a robot
> identified by an NI number. Customer Care - my a*se! I could say worse
> - but I won't stoop that low. Idiots!!!!!


I don't know about Job Centres, but speaking as someone who has worked 
for the DWP in its various incarnations (though no longer working there) 
I found that most staff were pleasant enough though there was the odd 
one or two who were rude and unhelpful. However, the way that staff get 
spoken to by some customers wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else. In the 
office I worked at we had staff seriously assaulted, followed when going 
home, threatened, screens smashed, claimants smashing down doors to get 
into the staff areas, claimants fighting amongst each other, once with 
baseball bats, several bomb threats, someone walking in with an 
incendiary device, staff cars being smashed up and more and that wasn't 
untypical of the offices in the area. In fact some offices had it worse 
- Brixton office a few miles away had a car driven through the front 
window with claimants nearly killed. All because a giro didn't turn up. 
On top of that, being called a cunt and worse for the umpteenth time in 
a day gets to the point where it's difficult to always smile when the 
next person you see sits down in front of you. It does test the patience 
after a while and you are on your guard before the person in front of 
you speaks, In my office three colleagues had nervous breakdowns - and 
these occurred in the office in front of several staff - in the first 
year I worked there. I can tell you it's not a pleasant thing to witness.

And as for excuses people come out with why they can't do something 
(mainly finding a job, though we didn't see as many as the equivalent of 
the old job centre dealt with that side of things), you hear it all 
within the first few months and the worst of it all is seeing the same 
few faces causing much of the disruption in reception and those same few 
people moaning that life dealt them a shit hand. Then attempting to 
cause as much disruption as possible in the office.

Customer care should be a priority but on top of all the chaos coming 
from the public side of things you also have management changing 
priorities on a whim and targets being set that are just impossible to 
reach. Now there are massive staff cutbacks which has made the situation 
worse.

That said, if someone isn't of a nervous disposition I would recommend 
working in a benefits office for six months - you soon learn about human 
nature though ultimately it can make you a more cynical person.
-- 
Robbie

"Robbie"  wrote in message 
news:5rduvlF1444i8U1@mid.individual.net...
> melanie.fullwood@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>> On 30 Nov, 22:56, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
>>> On 30 Nov, 21:19, "Niteawk"  wrote:

>
> I don't know about Job Centres, but speaking as someone who has worked for 
> the DWP in its various incarnations (though no longer working there) I 
> found that most staff were pleasant enough though there was the odd one or 
> two who were rude and unhelpful. However, the way that staff get spoken to 
> by some customers wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else. In the office I 
> worked at we had staff seriously assaulted, followed when going home, 
> threatened, screens smashed, claimants smashing down doors to get into the 
> staff areas, claimants fighting amongst each other, once with baseball 
> bats, several bomb threats, someone walking in with an incendiary device, 
> staff cars being smashed up and more and that wasn't untypical of the 
> offices in the area. In fact some offices had it worse - Brixton office a 
> few miles away had a car driven through the front window with claimants 
> nearly killed. All because a giro didn't turn up. On top of that, being 
> called a cunt and worse for the umpteenth time in a day gets to the point 
> where it's difficult to always smile when the next person you see sits 
> down in front of you. It does test the patience after a while and you are 
> on your guard before the person in front of you speaks, In my office three 
> colleagues had nervous breakdowns - and these occurred in the office in 
> front of several staff - in the first year I worked there. I can tell you 
> it's not a pleasant thing to witness.
>
> And as for excuses people come out with why they can't do something 
> (mainly finding a job, though we didn't see as many as the equivalent of 
> the old job centre dealt with that side of things), you hear it all within 
> the first few months and the worst of it all is seeing the same few faces 
> causing much of the disruption in reception and those same few people 
> moaning that life dealt them a shit hand. Then attempting to cause as much 
> disruption as possible in the office.

I have seen the problems you speak of, they are only ever caused by people 
complaining that their giro has not arrived. I was in Victoria, London a few 
years back and mob attacked the DSS office and wrecked it, why? no giros 
again. I think it was the second or third week of no payments that caused it 
to kick off.

Given the amount of and type people you deal with, it surprises me that 
staff have never learned to read the danger signs or how to moderate 
themselves when dealing with such people. There are some people you just do 
not argue with called nutcases - they start off by screaming and shouting 
"wheres my fucking giro" this is a big clue - by now it should be fairly 
obvious to any lame ass JC/ND/DSS that this must be why they are out of work 
and cant get a job, as soon as something is not right they will try to kill 
you, they are dysfunctional plain and simple - the solution in this scenario 
is just give them their giro or say its being processed and to collect it a 
3.00pm. Easy enough isnt it. Your average raving lunatic will be happy with 
that and calm is restored immediately. No need for nervous breakdowns if you 
know how to deal with people.

But then I think some of your JC/ND/DSS like to take advantage of people 
like this and deliberately wind them up, ah its ok, I am perfectly safe 
behind my bandit screen, the security guards have been called, he cant get 
me.........dont bank on it. ;)


>
> Customer care should be a priority but on top of all the chaos coming from 
> the public side of things you also have management changing priorities on 
> a whim and targets being set that are just impossible to reach. Now there 
> are massive staff cutbacks which has made the situation worse.

There does not seem to be any shortage of staff where I am, they call me in 
so often I have asked them if they would like me to move in permanently, the 
ND staff have the easiest job of all. They only have 7 or 8 appointments a 
day, one customer per hour leaving them plenty of room to take it easy, very 
often my appointments last for a matter of minutes, yet I know they booked 
an hour slot for me. The whole thing is pointless because the ask the same 
questions as the JC staff. They could save time by saying hello and good 
bye. It would make no difference, thats how useful they are. Doing a job 
that has already been done.



>
> That said, if someone isn't of a nervous disposition I would recommend 
> working in a benefits office for six months - you soon learn about human 
> nature though ultimately it can make you a more cynical person.


If only they did learn about human nature, the problems you speak of would 
easily be avoided.

wrote in message 
news:6dc38dc4-77e6-4f9d-8980-c4b343d38bcb@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> I agree with you that sometimes it seems as though the staff are
> winding you up for the fun of it. Maybe to make their dull lives
> exciting perhaps? I do sympathise about the abuse that some of them
> have to take; and it shouldn't be.

Why? the only time they get abuse is when they screw up and fail to 
recognise or ignore who they are dealing with. You leave a man with 3 
children to feed without money for food and see what happens, I have seen it 
;) you are asking for trouble. Like any job you can make life easy or hard 
for yourself. If I worked for the DWP, I would make sure that people I dealt 
with got paid, thats all you have to do to avoid any unpleasantness. Its of 
no interest to me why they are out of work or what they are doing to find 
work, all I have to do is verify their details so I can access their claim 
and sort it. Its a very easy job to do isnt it, a trained chimp could do it.

But you are always going to come into contact with some jobsworth who wants 
to humiliate you and deals with claimants in a manner like its their money 
and they are paying you out of their own pocket. They are the ones who cause 
the trouble, so be it on their heads. They deserve all the hassle they get 
IMO.





.

Niteawk wrote:
> 
>  wrote in message 
> news:6dc38dc4-77e6-4f9d-8980-c4b343d38bcb@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> I agree with you that sometimes it seems as though the staff are
>> winding you up for the fun of it. Maybe to make their dull lives
>> exciting perhaps? I do sympathise about the abuse that some of them
>> have to take; and it shouldn't be.
> 
> Why? the only time they get abuse is when they screw up and fail to 
> recognise or ignore who they are dealing with. You leave a man with 3 
> children to feed without money for food and see what happens, I have 
> seen it ;) you are asking for trouble. Like any job you can make life 
> easy or hard for yourself. If I worked for the DWP, I would make sure 
> that people I dealt with got paid, thats all you have to do to avoid any 
> unpleasantness. Its of no interest to me why they are out of work or 
> what they are doing to find work, all I have to do is verify their 
> details so I can access their claim and sort it. Its a very easy job to 
> do isnt it, a trained chimp could do it.
> 
> But you are always going to come into contact with some jobsworth who 
> wants to humiliate you and deals with claimants in a manner like its 
> their money and they are paying you out of their own pocket. They are 
> the ones who cause the trouble, so be it on their heads. They deserve 
> all the hassle they get IMO.
> 

If only the trouble was always because a payment hadn't been made...

Why don't you get a job at a JC+ if you think it is so easy?

Though for a start you'd find a pay a little on the low side...

-- 
Robbie

wrote in message
news:f27450d6-e223-4739-88f8-ef242d23fd01@y43g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...

Be interesting to see where the new investigation into donations
goes.

Martin  <><


Are you that naive, the investigation as you call it, (I call it a circus
act) will lead nowhere as usual. They are not going to arrest the PM and his
minsters for fraud.
Its a propaganda exercise, oh look the police are investigating us and they
will prove we are honest people. Its done for show so people think something
is being done when anyone with any intelligence knows nothing is being done
as usual. Its another example of how to waste tax payers money to achieve
nothing

"Robbie"  wrote in message 
news:5rgbr5F1413mpU1@mid.individual.net...
> Niteawk wrote:
>>
>>  wrote in message 
>> news:6dc38dc4-77e6-4f9d-8980-c4b343d38bcb@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> I agree with you that sometimes it seems as though the staff are
>>> winding you up for the fun of it. Maybe to make their dull lives
>>> exciting perhaps? I do sympathise about the abuse that some of them
>>> have to take; and it shouldn't be.
>>
>> Why? the only time they get abuse is when they screw up and fail to 
>> recognise or ignore who they are dealing with. You leave a man with 3 
>> children to feed without money for food and see what happens, I have seen 
>> it ;) you are asking for trouble. Like any job you can make life easy or 
>> hard for yourself. If I worked for the DWP, I would make sure that people 
>> I dealt with got paid, thats all you have to do to avoid any 
>> unpleasantness. Its of no interest to me why they are out of work or what 
>> they are doing to find work, all I have to do is verify their details so 
>> I can access their claim and sort it. Its a very easy job to do isnt it, 
>> a trained chimp could do it.
>>
>> But you are always going to come into contact with some jobsworth who 
>> wants to humiliate you and deals with claimants in a manner like its 
>> their money and they are paying you out of their own pocket. They are the 
>> ones who cause the trouble, so be it on their heads. They deserve all the 
>> hassle they get IMO.
>>
>
> If only the trouble was always because a payment hadn't been made...


True, you lose peoples details before they even get started, some people 
have to make several claims before they can get benefit.


>
> Why don't you get a job at a JC+ if you think it is so easy?


I have applied for a Revenues and Benefits assessor post, will they give me 
the job? no I dont think so, most if not all of these jobs are filled 
internally or given to a friend of a friend. ;)

>
> Though for a start you'd find a pay a little on the low side...
>

The top line is not bad, it all depends on how long it takes them to get 
there.

wrote in message 
news:2f9cc94d-63dc-48e0-9028-414567017a10@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 2 Dec, 18:31, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>  wrote in message
>>
>> news:f27450d6-e223-4739-88f8-ef242d23fd01@y43g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Be interesting to see where the new investigation into donations
>> goes.
>>
>> Martin  <><
>>
>> Are you that naive, the investigation as you call it, (I call it a circus
>> act) will lead nowhere as usual. They are not going to arrest the PM and 
>> his
>> minsters for fraud.
>> Its a propaganda exercise, oh look the police are investigating us and 
>> they
>> will prove we are honest people. Its done for show so people think 
>> something
>> is being done when anyone with any intelligence knows nothing is being 
>> done
>> as usual. Its another example of how to waste tax payers money to achieve
>> nothing
>
> Even getting nowhere is a result in itself. Like the last
> investigation.
>

Not quite, there is the propaganda side to consider, they will be able to 
say at the end of it how honest they all are which is the whole point of 
this sham investigation. We are not fiddling lying bastards after all.

wrote in message 
news:93d20bcd-8ed3-492d-b057-0f498bf7645c@o6g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On 2 Dec, 17:58, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>  wrote in message
>>
>> news:6dc38dc4-77e6-4f9d-8980-c4b343d38bcb@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > I agree with you that sometimes it seems as though the staff are
>> > winding you up for the fun of it. Maybe to make their dull lives
>> > exciting perhaps? I do sympathise about the abuse that some of them
>> > have to take; and it shouldn't be.
>>
>> Why? the only time they get abuse is when they screw up and fail to
>> recognise or ignore who they are dealing with. You leave a man with 3
>> children to feed without money for food and see what happens, I have seen 
>> it
>> ;) you are asking for trouble. Like any job you can make life easy or 
>> hard
>> for yourself. If I worked for the DWP, I would make sure that people I 
>> dealt
>> with got paid, thats all you have to do to avoid any unpleasantness. Its 
>> of
>> no interest to me why they are out of work or what they are doing to find
>> work, all I have to do is verify their details so I can access their 
>> claim
>> and sort it. Its a very easy job to do isnt it, a trained chimp could do 
>> it.
>>
>> But you are always going to come into contact with some jobsworth who 
>> wants
>> to humiliate you and deals with claimants in a manner like its their 
>> money
>> and they are paying you out of their own pocket. They are the ones who 
>> cause
>> the trouble, so be it on their heads. They deserve all the hassle they 
>> get
>> IMO.
>>
>> .
>
> They also get abuse when they don't do what people want. Even when
> they cannot do what people want.
>
> For every jobsworth there's also going to be someone who insists on
> having things done their way.


Which brings us back to where we started. People like that should not be on 
JSA but they are stuck with it by ignorant JC/ND staff. This is just another 
example of how the system fails people, dealing with mentally ill people 
when they should not be on JSA at all. Put them on disability and get rid, 
thats what should happen. If you think you can get people like that into 
work then you are crazier than they are.

ghostwhistler@googlemail.com wrote:
> On Dec 1, 8:37 pm, Robbie  wrote:
>> melanie.fullw...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>>> On 30 Nov, 22:56, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
>>>> On 30 Nov, 21:19, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>>>>  wrote in message
>>>>> news:057ddd5b-4ede-4451-9ebd-b05954a4d290@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On 30 Nov, 20:20, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>>>>>  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:5086fc8b-fe87-4139-9a94-0606624c3c2b@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> On 30 Nov, 15:54, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>>>>>>  wrote in message
>>>>>>> Back when I started work, I could never have got a mortgage on my
>>>>>>> starting wage either.
>>>>>>> But a few years, and one promotion, later, managed to get a mortgage.
>>>>>>> NMW is a starting wage, not an end wage.
>>>>>>> Dont talk bollocks, its got fuck all to do with starting wage. The NMW
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> the average rate of pay offered for nearly all the jobs advertised in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> JC, jobs that have no prospects other than to claim HB to make ends
>>>>>>> meet.
>>>>>>> Its a starting point all right, if you go back in time by 20 years, then
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> could live on todays NMW.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>> Its the minimum wage, which means it is the starting wage.
>>>>>> Cobblers, its a rate of pay well below todays cost of living.
>>>>>> I've been on thejobcentresite this week, checking for certain jobs.
>>>>>> Most had starting pay well above NMW.
>>>>>> But then again, I wasn't looking at burger bar or shelf stacker jobs.
>>>>>> Maybe you need to look beyond unskilled jobs.
>>>>>> Yes, SKILLED jobs pay fairly reasonable rates but most people at the JC
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> unskilled and the way the JC operates, you are not allowed to get the
>>>>>> skills
>>>>>> needed. Then theres the lack of availability of courses to contend with,
>>>>>> cap
>>>>>> that off with no little or no training being offered and you are well and
>>>>>> truly screwed.
>>>>>> Exactly what level would you have NMW set at? And would you mind
>>>>>> paying increased costs or taxes to cover it?
>>>>>> It does not matter what I think the NMW should be, I would be more than
>>>>>> happy to pay hundreds of thousands in tax as long as I am left with enough
>>>>>> to live on after deductions, it all relative.
>>>>>> Now if you want a job that will allow you to buy a house........
>>>>>> That would mean starting salary about £50K? Pretty sure NMW isn't
>>>>>> going to become £30 an hour for a very long time.
>>>>>> And this is why they need to do something otherwise there will be more
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> just housing bubbles bursting. You cant go on pricing more and more people
>>>>>> out of the market and then expect them to work to maintain a lifestyle
>>>>>> equivalent to being on the dole.
>>>>>> PS You would need to earn a lot more than £30 an hour to actually earn 50k
>>>>>> take home. You will be in the 40% tax bracket above 34k, 22% thereafter,
>>>>>> then there is NI of 11% so even 50k basic is not that fantastic after the
>>>>>> tax man gets hold of it. I think this is what the NMW should be ;)
>>>>> Ummm.....mortgage calculations are done on gross. Not net.
>>>>> So 40%, 11%, 12.8%, 22% etc don't apply.
>>>>> Being able to afford repayments is another matter......
>>>>> Fine saying the government need to do something. Yet when they do
>>>>> something, people complain about it......
>>>>> Northern Rock? Railtrack? Rover? Need I go on?
>>>>> Yes we do complain because all they are doing is giving away billions of tax
>>>>> payers money and plum contracts to their cronies in exchange for
>>>>> contributions to their party. Cronies who then end up in the House of Lords
>>>>> with peerages and honours having made millions in profit for running our
>>>>> public services into the ground, like the underground for eg, and no one is
>>>>> to blame for this of course. Need I go on?- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> Giving away billions, yes they do that. Spend it like it isn't their
>>>> money.
>>>> The contracts is a bit of an odd thing - EU tendering rules are a bit
>>>> of a bugger at the best of times. Hard to stop someone bidding for the
>>>> work even when they make a mess elsewhere.
>>>> Though pre-selection criteria can rule out some competitors.
>>>> Once contracts are awarded however, they tend to be kept. Even if the
>>>> company is running at a loss to do it.
>>>> Annoys hell out of some contractors, but some don't seem to understand
>>>> their own costs to do work.
>>>> Be interesting to see where thenewinvestigation into donations
>>>> goes.
>>>> Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Does anyone in this discussion have any idea why the staff at the
>>> Jobcentre Plus have such a bad attitude? Is it their stupid training?
>>> They all have the same one line of thought, with on regard for
>>> anything in between, or considered a different case. You are treated
>>> like a battery hen - just passing through; then ending up in the broth
>>> usually. Their attitude stinks and gets right up my nose! You feel you
>>> are under police interrogation. Treated like muck on their shoes -
>>> shocking. I've had to take a lot of crap and quite honestly I'm fed
>>> up . Some compassion wouldn't go a miss - especially what I've been
>>> through. Oh sorry, I'm not a human being with feelings; I'm a robot
>>> identified by an NI number. Customer Care - my a*se! I could say worse
>>> - but I won't stoop that low. Idiots!!!!!
>> I don't know about Job Centres, but speaking as someone who has worked
>> for the DWP in its various incarnations (though no longer working there)
>> I found that most staff were pleasant enough though there was the odd
>> one or two who were rude and unhelpful. However, the way that staff get
>> spoken to by some customers wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else. In the
>> office I worked at we had staff seriously assaulted, followed when going
>> home, threatened, screens smashed, claimants smashing down doors to get
>> into the staff areas, claimants fighting amongst each other, once with
>> baseball bats, several bomb threats, someone walking in with an
>> incendiary device, staff cars being smashed up and more and that wasn't
>> untypical of the offices in the area. In fact some offices had it worse
>> - Brixton office a few miles away had a car driven through the front
>> window with claimants nearly killed. All because a giro didn't turn up.
>> On top of that, being called a cunt and worse for the umpteenth time in
>> a day gets to the point where it's difficult to always smile when the
>> next person you see sits down in front of you. It does test the patience
>> after a while and you are on your guard before the person in front of
>> you speaks, In my office three colleagues had nervous breakdowns - and
>> these occurred in the office in front of several staff - in the first
>> year I worked there. I can tell you it's not a pleasant thing to witness.
>>
>> And as for excuses people come out with why they can't do something
>> (mainly finding a job, though we didn't see as many as the equivalent of
>> the old job centre dealt with that side of things), you hear it all
>> within the first few months and the worst of it all is seeing the same
>> few faces causing much of the disruption in reception and those same few
>> people moaning that life dealt them a shit hand. Then attempting to
>> cause as much disruption as possible in the office.
>>
>> Customer care should be a priority but on top of all the chaos coming
>> from the public side of things you also have management changing
>> priorities on a whim and targets being set that are just impossible to
>> reach. Now there are massive staff cutbacks which has made the situation
>> worse.
>>
>> That said, if someone isn't of a nervous disposition I would recommend
>> working in a benefits office for six months - you soon learn about human
>> nature though ultimately it can make you a more cynical person.
>> --
>> Robbie
> 
> you report behaviour i daresay isn't the norm. it doesn't excuse the
> sort of snide behaviour i've had to tolerate from the dwp and i have
> never EVER been anything but polite and courteous to them. Why
> shouldn't I? I'm not some lone nutter.
> 
> So please don't use these unacceptable and uncommon examples as yet
> more ways to keep the unemployed down.
> 
> As for politeness, well let's just say you can kill with kindness.


These are uncommon examples - almost every day there was an incident in 
the reception area and at least once a week we had a screen smashed. I 
could give you a list of incidents at offices up and down the country of 
assaults and violence.

No other worker would put up with the way that DWP staff get talked to. 
I know the claimants are often in a precarious position, often with no 
money and deeply in debt but that doesn't make it ant less palpable when 
you're getting ready for work to think you've got a day ahead where you 
may be getting called worse than shit - most companies would ban such a 
customer but at the DWP you can't (obviously). But staff have to put up 
with it.

No, it's not uncommon. And how does me pointing this out keep the 
unemployed down? And how is it unacceptable? Plus realise, there's more 
to the DWP than just the unemployed - they form less than 20% of the 
customers.

-- 
Robbie

ghostwhistler@googlemail.com wrote:
> On Dec 4, 11:35 am, Robbie  wrote:
>> ghostwhist...@googlemail.com wrote:
>>> On Dec 1, 8:37 pm, Robbie  wrote:
>>>> melanie.fullw...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 30 Nov, 22:56, "mart2...@hotmail.com"  wrote:
>>>>>> On 30 Nov, 21:19, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>>>>>>  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:057ddd5b-4ede-4451-9ebd-b05954a4d290@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> On 30 Nov, 20:20, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:5086fc8b-fe87-4139-9a94-0606624c3c2b@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>> On 30 Nov, 15:54, "Niteawk"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> Back when I started work, I could never have got a mortgage on my
>>>>>>>>> starting wage either.
>>>>>>>>> But a few years, and one promotion, later, managed to get a mortgage.
>>>>>>>>> NMW is a starting wage, not an end wage.
>>>>>>>>> Dont talk bollocks, its got fuck all to do with starting wage. The NMW
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> the average rate of pay offered for nearly all the jobs advertised in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> JC, jobs that have no prospects other than to claim HB to make ends
>>>>>>>>> meet.
>>>>>>>>> Its a starting point all right, if you go back in time by 20 years, then
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> could live on todays NMW.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>> Its the minimum wage, which means it is the starting wage.
>>>>>>>> Cobblers, its a rate of pay well below todays cost of living.
>>>>>>>> I've been on thejobcentresite this week, checking for certain jobs.
>>>>>>>> Most had starting pay well above NMW.
>>>>>>>> But then again, I wasn't looking at burger bar or shelf stacker jobs.
>>>>>>>> Maybe you need to look beyond unskilled jobs.
>>>>>>>> Yes, SKILLED jobs pay fairly reasonable rates but most people at the JC
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> unskilled and the way the JC operates, you are not allowed to get the
>>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>>> needed. Then theres the lack of availability of courses to contend with,
>>>>>>>> cap
>>>>>>>> that off with no little or no training being offered and you are well and
>>>>>>>> truly screwed.
>>>>>>>> Exactly what level would you have NMW set at? And would you mind
>>>>>>>> paying increased costs or taxes to cover it?
>>>>>>>> It does not matter what I think the NMW should be, I would be more than
>>>>>>>> happy to pay hundreds of thousands in tax as long as I am left with enough
>>>>>>>> to live on after deductions, it all relative.
>>>>>>>> Now if you want a job that will allow you to buy a house........
>>>>>>>> That would mean starting salary about £50K? Pretty sure NMW isn't
>>>>>>>> going to become £30 an hour for a very long time.
>>>>>>>> And this is why they need to do something otherwise there will be more
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> just housing bubbles bursting. You cant go on pricing more and more people
>>>>>>>> out of the market and then expect them to work to maintain a lifestyle
>>>>>>>> equivalent to being on the dole.
>>>>>>>> PS You would need to earn a lot more than £30 an hour to actually earn 50k
>>>>>>>> take home. You will be in the 40% tax bracket above 34k, 22% thereafter,
>>>>>>>> then there is NI of 11% so even 50k basic is not that fantastic after the
>>>>>>>> tax man gets hold of it. I think this is what the NMW should be ;)
>>>>>>> Ummm.....mortgage calculations are done on gross. Not net.
>>>>>>> So 40%, 11%, 12.8%, 22% etc don't apply.
>>>>>>> Being able to afford repayments is another matter......
>>>>>>> Fine saying the government need to do something. Yet when they do
>>>>>>> something, people complain about it......
>>>>>>> Northern Rock? Railtrack? Rover? Need I go on?
>>>>>>> Yes we do complain because all they are doing is giving away billions of tax
>>>>>>> payers money and plum contracts to their cronies in exchange for
>>>>>>> contributions to their party. Cronies who then end up in the House of Lords
>>>>>>> with peerages and honours having made millions in profit for running our
>>>>>>> public services into the ground, like the underground for eg, and no one is
>>>>>>> to blame for this of course. Need I go on?- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>> Giving away billions, yes they do that. Spend it like it isn't their
>>>>>> money.
>>>>>> The contracts is a bit of an odd thing - EU tendering rules are a bit
>>>>>> of a bugger at the best of times. Hard to stop someone bidding for the
>>>>>> work even when they make a mess elsewhere.
>>>>>> Though pre-selection criteria can rule out some competitors.
>>>>>> Once contracts are awarded however, they tend to be kept. Even if the
>>>>>> company is running at a loss to do it.
>>>>>> Annoys hell out of some contractors, but some don't seem to understand
>>>>>> their own costs to do work.
>>>>>> Be interesting to see where thenewinvestigation into donations
>>>>>> goes.
>>>>>> Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>> Does anyone in this discussion have any idea why the staff at the
>>>>> Jobcentre Plus have such a bad attitude? Is it their stupid training?
>>>>> They all have the same one line of thought, with on regard for
>>>>> anything in between, or considered a different case. You are treated
>>>>> like a battery hen - just passing through; then ending up in the broth
>>>>> usually. Their attitude stinks and gets right up my nose! You feel you
>>>>> are under police interrogation. Treated like muck on their shoes -
>>>>> shocking. I've had to take a lot of crap and quite honestly I'm fed
>>>>> up . Some compassion wouldn't go a miss - especially what I've been
>>>>> through. Oh sorry, I'm not a human being with feelings; I'm a robot
>>>>> identified by an NI number. Customer Care - my a*se! I could say worse
>>>>> - but I won't stoop that low. Idiots!!!!!
>>>> I don't know about Job Centres, but speaking as someone who has worked
>>>> for the DWP in its various incarnations (though no longer working there)
>>>> I found that most staff were pleasant enough though there was the odd
>>>> one or two who were rude and unhelpful. However, the way that staff get
>>>> spoken to by some customers wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else. In the
>>>> office I worked at we had staff seriously assaulted, followed when going
>>>> home, threatened, screens smashed, claimants smashing down doors to get
>>>> into the staff areas, claimants fighting amongst each other, once with
>>>> baseball bats, several bomb threats, someone walking in with an
>>>> incendiary device, staff cars being smashed up and more and that wasn't
>>>> untypical of the offices in the area. In fact some offices had it worse
>>>> - Brixton office a few miles away had a car driven through the front
>>>> window with claimants nearly killed. All because a giro didn't turn up.
>>>> On top of that, being called a cunt and worse for the umpteenth time in
>>>> a day gets to the point where it's difficult to always smile when the
>>>> next person you see sits down in front of you. It does test the patience
>>>> after a while and you are on your guard before the person in front of
>>>> you speaks, In my office three colleagues had nervous breakdowns - and
>>>> these occurred in the office in front of several staff - in the first
>>>> year I worked there. I can tell you it's not a pleasant thing to witness.
>>>> And as for excuses people come out with why they can't do something
>>>> (mainly finding a job, though we didn't see as many as the equivalent of
>>>> the old job centre dealt with that side of things), you hear it all
>>>> within the first few months and the worst of it all is seeing the same
>>>> few faces causing much of the disruption in reception and those same few
>>>> people moaning that life dealt them a shit hand. Then attempting to
>>>> cause as much disruption as possible in the office.
>>>> Customer care should be a priority but on top of all the chaos coming
>>>> from the public side of things you also have management changing
>>>> priorities on a whim and targets being set that are just impossible to
>>>> reach. Now there are massive staff cutbacks which has made the situation
>>>> worse.
>>>> That said, if someone isn't of a nervous disposition I would recommend
>>>> working in a benefits office for six months - you soon learn about human
>>>> nature though ultimately it can make you a more cynical person.
>>>> --
>>>> Robbie
>>> you report behaviour i daresay isn't the norm. it doesn't excuse the
>>> sort of snide behaviour i've had to tolerate from the dwp and i have
>>> never EVER been anything but polite and courteous to them. Why
>>> shouldn't I? I'm not some lone nutter.
>>> So please don't use these unacceptable and uncommon examples as yet
>>> more ways to keep the unemployed down.
>>> As for politeness, well let's just say you can kill with kindness.
>> These are uncommon examples - almost every day there was an incident in
>> the reception area and at least once a week we had a screen smashed. I
>> could give you a list of incidents at offices up and down the country of
>> assaults and violence.
>>
>> No other worker would put up with the way that DWP staff get talked to.
>> I know the claimants are often in a precarious position, often with no
>> money and deeply in debt but that doesn't make it ant less palpable when
>> you're getting ready for work to think you've got a day ahead where you
>> may be getting called worse than shit - most companies would ban such a
>> customer but at the DWP you can't (obviously). But staff have to put up
>> with it.
>>
>> No, it's not uncommon. And how does me pointing this out keep the
>> unemployed down? And how is it unacceptable? Plus realise, there's more
>> to the DWP than just the unemployed - they form less than 20% of the
>> customers.
>>
>> --
>> Robbie
> 
> I think it's uncommon overall; you just happened to get the place
> where it always kicked off - not that there's anexcuse for it. Anymore
> than there is for JC staff to treat their 'customers' like crap
> either. But then we the customers don't have the recourse that you lot
> do; we have to lump it. So while I don't remotely condone the
> behaviour of idiots i have very little sympathy for staff.
> 
> Pointing it out keeps us down because it's another way the JC tar
> everyone with the same brush; society looks down its nose at the
> unemployed and there are fewer sections of the community so roundly
> reviled. Pointing out the unacceptable behaviour of the few does
> little for the rest of us, people like me who are sick and tired of
> getting the shit end of the stick from staff who are little more than
> cunts. Sorry.

I realise what you mean - most people I saw were polite but not all 
staff are bad though. You have to admit that there is a "us versus them" 
mentality though - and that works both ways, sadly.

-- 
Robbie

"Robbie"  wrote in message 
news:5rl3gtF152ft0U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> I realise what you mean - most people I saw were polite but not all staff 
> are bad though. You have to admit that there is a "us versus them" 
> mentality though - and that works both ways, sadly.
>

The us v them mentality is created by the DWP, even the clowns that run new 
deal courses have the same developed the same attitude from dealing with the 
JC on a daily basis. The unemployed do not hold meetings every other day to 
to whip up hatred against JC/ND staff, most of them do not know each other, 
OTOH thats exactly what the JC/ND staff do, hold meetings to express their 
contempt for the unemployed.
At the end of the day you are dealing with individuals who have to deal with 
office staff that are all of the same mind set which is screw them. So how 
the hell can you say it works both ways?

Niteawk wrote:
> 
> "Robbie"  wrote in message 
> news:5rl3gtF152ft0U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> I realise what you mean - most people I saw were polite but not all 
>> staff are bad though. You have to admit that there is a "us versus 
>> them" mentality though - and that works both ways, sadly.
>>
> 
> The us v them mentality is created by the DWP, even the clowns that run 
> new deal courses have the same developed the same attitude from dealing 
> with the JC on a daily basis. The unemployed do not hold meetings every 
> other day to to whip up hatred against JC/ND staff, most of them do not 
> know each other, OTOH thats exactly what the JC/ND staff do, hold 
> meetings to express their contempt for the unemployed.

How do you know that staff hold these meeting (which they don't) and if 
they did what it is they talk about? I can tell you the staff have more 
interesting things to talk about - like paying the rent or the mortgage 
or where they will go after work or how their relationship is going. I 
can assure you the staff don't go into work thinking "how can I shaft an 
unemployed person today". After all, most of the staff were unemployed 
at one time.

> At the end of the day you are dealing with individuals who have to deal 
> with office staff that are all of the same mind set which is screw them. 
> So how the hell can you say it works both ways?

You missed the point I was making. Which was, some of the staff have the 
"us versus them" mentality. Which is wrong, of course. But they aren't 
ogres - as much as you would love to see them as being like that. They 
have a wife and kids too.


-- 
Robbie

"Robbie"  wrote in message 
news:5rlfjqF151r30U1@mid.individual.net...
> Niteawk wrote:
>>
>> "Robbie"  wrote in message 
>> news:5rl3gtF152ft0U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> I realise what you mean - most people I saw were polite but not all 
>>> staff are bad though. You have to admit that there is a "us versus them" 
>>> mentality though - and that works both ways, sadly.
>>>
>>
>> The us v them mentality is created by the DWP, even the clowns that run 
>> new deal courses have the same developed the same attitude from dealing 
>> with the JC on a daily basis. The unemployed do not hold meetings every 
>> other day to to whip up hatred against JC/ND staff, most of them do not 
>> know each other, OTOH thats exactly what the JC/ND staff do, hold 
>> meetings to express their contempt for the unemployed.
>
> How do you know that staff hold these meeting (which they don't) and if 
> they did what it is they talk about? I can tell you the staff have more 
> interesting things to talk about - like paying the rent or the mortgage or 
> where they will go after work or how their relationship is going. I can 
> assure you the staff don't go into work thinking "how can I shaft an 
> unemployed person today". After all, most of the staff were unemployed at 
> one time.

Fucking hell, shows what you know. I know they hold meetings at least 3 
times a week at my JC because they dont open until 9.30 some mornings. I 
have also had this confirmed by my ND adviser who is fond of making 
appointments for me anywhere in between opening and closing time.


>
>> At the end of the day you are dealing with individuals who have to deal 
>> with office staff that are all of the same mind set which is screw them. 
>> So how the hell can you say it works both ways?
>
> You missed the point I was making. Which was, some of the staff have the 
> "us versus them" mentality. Which is wrong, of course. But they aren't 
> ogres - as much as you would love to see them as being like that. They 
> have a wife and kids too.
>

Ogres? WTF! Speaking for myself and through personal experience, I have 
found some of them are positively evil and will go out of their way to make 
life as difficult as possible for you. Which is crazy when you consider that 
these people were total strangers to me in the beginning and left me 
wondering why they would try to fuck me up when I dont even know them 
personally. I wish they would see that I am just a number and move on and 
try to remember its not their money, they pretend that they are concerned 
that I am out of work when the truth is they really dont give a fuck, so why 
the pretence. Then they offer me a minimum wage temp vacancy which I am 
forced to apply for. I dont need this bullshit from two faced cunts like 
them. Lets have the training you bastards claim to offer so I can get a real 
job if you are really that concerned about helping me, training as 
advertised on direct.gov.uk Oh no we cant do that, well then dont tell 
people like me there are opportunities like this available, fuck off and 
leave me alone until you are ready to deliver as promised. Rant mode off ;)

OK I will grant you that there are some that are not all bad and 1 or 2 of 
them I would describe as nice, but the rest of them are a total pain, the 
proverbial mind set always looking for ways to fuck you up