I have my 8 daughter every second weekend, and nearly every school holiday 
and always as X-Mas, Easter, Birthday, CSA have contacted me and have 
demanded details from me i.e. wage slips, bank details, place of work 
location but have not given me any forms to fill in or anything to state my 
side of the story.. all they said to me is that they are not interested in 
any outgoings I have i.e morgague, money to go to work etc. all they want is 
to know how much I earn and they want to take 15% of my net wages......can 
they do this? and what can I do to put in my posisiton as I really can't 
afford that amount


please help

mistrimagic

Mistrimagic wrote:
> I have my 8 daughter every second weekend, and nearly every school holiday 
> and always as X-Mas, Easter, Birthday, CSA have contacted me and have 
> demanded details from me i.e. wage slips, bank details, place of work 
> location but have not given me any forms to fill in or anything to state my 
> side of the story.. all they said to me is that they are not interested in 
> any outgoings I have i.e morgague, money to go to work etc. all they want is 
> to know how much I earn and they want to take 15% of my net wages......can 
> they do this? and what can I do to put in my posisiton as I really can't 
> afford that amount

Welcome to hell.

This is how the CSA operates. Chances are that your ex. will not even 
see the amount you pay. If your ex. is not on benefits, it will be in 
all your interests (yours, your daughters and your ex.) to come to an 
arrangement outside of the CSA. If your ex. is on benefits, they will 
take all they can from you and give her, I think, 5 quid per week.
   How that goes to support your daughter is anyones guess.
I'm suprised you have not had forms to fill in. That will be interesting 
when they start trying to get you for back pay - they should date it 
from when they first send the forms.

    Anything you can do?

1. Quit work, emigrate and lose contact with your daughter. Not really 
an option.
2. Quit work, claim dole. Not really going to benefit your daughter.
3. Go contracting. It depends on what your job is. Starting your own 
company and going contracting can work if you have people you can trust, 
ie. new wife, to be the shareholder and therefore share dividend 
recipient. This may attract the attention of HMG Inspector of Taxes, 
tread carefully.

Best thing to do would be to get your ex. into work. The CSA will not 
benefit her until she does and then the CSA would not be her best 
option! Try to get your ex. to agree to a settlement outside of the CSA. 
Unfortunately, quite a lot of exes see the numbers quoted by the CSA and 
get greedy. I don't know your ex. so I can't speak for her.

Good luck, and hope for a change in the CSA. Don't hold your breath.

Boggy.

They constantly lie, in this senario they will probably say they did send 
you the forms, probably years ago in which case you'll also be held 
responsible from that ficticious date they say the froms were mailed and so 
will have huge arears as well, as there is no proof of mailing its basically 
indefensable.

Let us know how all this works out.

Yes they have no interest in you or your childs welfare, your costs, 
expenses or otherwise, only your money, 15% of your net take home.



"Bogwitch"  wrote in message 
news:RXGzi.26113$Db6.17217@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
> Mistrimagic wrote:
>> I have my 8 daughter every second weekend, and nearly every school 
>> holiday and always as X-Mas, Easter, Birthday, CSA have contacted me and 
>> have demanded details from me i.e. wage slips, bank details, place of 
>> work location but have not given me any forms to fill in or anything to 
>> state my side of the story.. all they said to me is that they are not 
>> interested in any outgoings I have i.e morgague, money to go to work etc. 
>> all they want is to know how much I earn and they want to take 15% of my 
>> net wages......can they do this? and what can I do to put in my posisiton 
>> as I really can't afford that amount
>
> Welcome to hell.
>
> This is how the CSA operates. Chances are that your ex. will not even see 
> the amount you pay. If your ex. is not on benefits, it will be in all your 
> interests (yours, your daughters and your ex.) to come to an arrangement 
> outside of the CSA. If your ex. is on benefits, they will take all they 
> can from you and give her, I think, 5 quid per week.
>   How that goes to support your daughter is anyones guess.
> I'm suprised you have not had forms to fill in. That will be interesting 
> when they start trying to get you for back pay - they should date it from 
> when they first send the forms.
>
>    Anything you can do?
>
> 1. Quit work, emigrate and lose contact with your daughter. Not really an 
> option.
> 2. Quit work, claim dole. Not really going to benefit your daughter.
> 3. Go contracting. It depends on what your job is. Starting your own 
> company and going contracting can work if you have people you can trust, 
> ie. new wife, to be the shareholder and therefore share dividend 
> recipient. This may attract the attention of HMG Inspector of Taxes, tread 
> carefully.
>
> Best thing to do would be to get your ex. into work. The CSA will not 
> benefit her until she does and then the CSA would not be her best option! 
> Try to get your ex. to agree to a settlement outside of the CSA. 
> Unfortunately, quite a lot of exes see the numbers quoted by the CSA and 
> get greedy. I don't know your ex. so I can't speak for her.
>
> Good luck, and hope for a change in the CSA. Don't hold your breath.
>
> Boggy.

I don't really want to avoid paying money ( after all she's my baby) but my 
problem is on a real level my ESSENTIAL outgoings will surpass my incomming, 
I really don't want to give up work and definately don't want to sell my 
house. What is the appeals procedure like and do they really take into 
consideration that this may destroy a life (namely mine)

apart from going round there and venting bottled up anger ( which I suppose 
won't help, but sure would feel good) ...enough dreaming!!!!!!......where do 
I stand???



"Fletcher"  wrote in message 
news:P_-dnRFtAJFIuk3b4p2dnAA@giganews.com...
> They constantly lie, in this senario they will probably say they did send 
> you the forms, probably years ago in which case you'll also be held 
> responsible from that ficticious date they say the froms were mailed and 
> so will have huge arears as well, as there is no proof of mailing its 
> basically indefensable.
>
> Let us know how all this works out.
>
> Yes they have no interest in you or your childs welfare, your costs, 
> expenses or otherwise, only your money, 15% of your net take home.
>
>
>
> "Bogwitch"  wrote in message 
> news:RXGzi.26113$Db6.17217@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
>> Mistrimagic wrote:
>>> I have my 8 daughter every second weekend, and nearly every school 
>>> holiday and always as X-Mas, Easter, Birthday, CSA have contacted me and 
>>> have demanded details from me i.e. wage slips, bank details, place of 
>>> work location but have not given me any forms to fill in or anything to 
>>> state my side of the story.. all they said to me is that they are not 
>>> interested in any outgoings I have i.e morgague, money to go to work 
>>> etc. all they want is to know how much I earn and they want to take 15% 
>>> of my net wages......can they do this? and what can I do to put in my 
>>> posisiton as I really can't afford that amount
>>
>> Welcome to hell.
>>
>> This is how the CSA operates. Chances are that your ex. will not even see 
>> the amount you pay. If your ex. is not on benefits, it will be in all 
>> your interests (yours, your daughters and your ex.) to come to an 
>> arrangement outside of the CSA. If your ex. is on benefits, they will 
>> take all they can from you and give her, I think, 5 quid per week.
>>   How that goes to support your daughter is anyones guess.
>> I'm suprised you have not had forms to fill in. That will be interesting 
>> when they start trying to get you for back pay - they should date it from 
>> when they first send the forms.
>>
>>    Anything you can do?
>>
>> 1. Quit work, emigrate and lose contact with your daughter. Not really an 
>> option.
>> 2. Quit work, claim dole. Not really going to benefit your daughter.
>> 3. Go contracting. It depends on what your job is. Starting your own 
>> company and going contracting can work if you have people you can trust, 
>> ie. new wife, to be the shareholder and therefore share dividend 
>> recipient. This may attract the attention of HMG Inspector of Taxes, 
>> tread carefully.
>>
>> Best thing to do would be to get your ex. into work. The CSA will not 
>> benefit her until she does and then the CSA would not be her best option! 
>> Try to get your ex. to agree to a settlement outside of the CSA. 
>> Unfortunately, quite a lot of exes see the numbers quoted by the CSA and 
>> get greedy. I don't know your ex. so I can't speak for her.
>>
>> Good luck, and hope for a change in the CSA. Don't hold your breath.
>>
>> Boggy.
>
>

On 26 Aug, 15:52, "Mistrimagic" 
wrote:
> I don't really want to avoid paying money ( after all she's my baby) but my
> problem is on a real level my ESSENTIAL outgoings will surpass my incomming,
> I really don't want to give up work and definately don't want to sell my
> house. What is the appeals procedure like and do they really take into
> consideration that this may destroy a life (namely mine)
>
> apart from going round there and venting bottled up anger ( which I suppose
> won't help, but sure would feel good) ...enough dreaming!!!!!!......where do
> I stand???
>
> "Fletcher"  wrote in message
>
> news:P_-dnRFtAJFIuk3b4p2dnAA@giganews.com...
>
>
>
> > They constantly lie, in this senario they will probably say they did send
> > you the forms, probably years ago in which case you'll also be held
> > responsible from that ficticious date they say the froms were mailed and
> > so will have huge arears as well, as there is no proof of mailing its
> > basically indefensable.
>
> > Let us know how all this works out.
>
> > Yes they have no interest in you or your childs welfare, your costs,
> > expenses or otherwise, only your money, 15% of your net take home.
>
> > "Bogwitch"  wrote in message
> >news:RXGzi.26113$Db6.17217@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
> >> Mistrimagic wrote:
> >>> I have my 8 daughter every second weekend, and nearly every school
> >>> holiday and always as X-Mas, Easter, Birthday, CSA have contacted me and
> >>> have demanded details from me i.e. wage slips, bank details, place of
> >>> work location but have not given me any forms to fill in or anything to
> >>> state my side of the story.. all they said to me is that they are not
> >>> interested in any outgoings I have i.e morgague, money to go to work
> >>> etc. all they want is to know how much I earn and they want to take 15%
> >>> of my net wages......can they do this? and what can I do to put in my
> >>> posisiton as I really can't afford that amount
>
> >> Welcome to hell.
>
> >> This is how the CSA operates. Chances are that your ex. will not even see
> >> the amount you pay. If your ex. is not on benefits, it will be in all
> >> your interests (yours, your daughters and your ex.) to come to an
> >> arrangement outside of the CSA. If your ex. is on benefits, they will
> >> take all they can from you and give her, I think, 5 quid per week.
> >>   How that goes to support your daughter is anyones guess.
> >> I'm suprised you have not had forms to fill in. That will be interesting
> >> when they start trying to get you for back pay - they should date it from
> >> when they first send the forms.
>
> >>    Anything you can do?
>
> >> 1. Quit work, emigrate and lose contact with your daughter. Not really an
> >> option.
> >> 2. Quit work, claim dole. Not really going to benefit your daughter.
> >> 3. Go contracting. It depends on what your job is. Starting your own
> >> company and going contracting can work if you have people you can trust,
> >> ie. new wife, to be the shareholder and therefore share dividend
> >> recipient. This may attract the attention of HMG Inspector of Taxes,
> >> tread carefully.
>
> >> Best thing to do would be to get your ex. into work. The CSA will not
> >> benefit her until she does and then the CSA would not be her best option!
> >> Try to get your ex. to agree to a settlement outside of the CSA.
> >> Unfortunately, quite a lot of exes see the numbers quoted by the CSA and
> >> get greedy. I don't know your ex. so I can't speak for her.
>
> >> Good luck, and hope for a change in the CSA. Don't hold your breath.
>
> >> Boggy.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If it is 15% consider yourself lucky. If, say, you take home £300 per
week this will work at at around £45. It's still a lot of money, but
if they do ask for that you might consider just paying it to get them
off your back.

Your problems may however by twofold. Firstly, if your daughter is 8
and the CSA have ever been contacted in the past, this will count as
an 'old' case. Under the old CSA rules the percentage they can take
from net income is, I think (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) a
whopping 35%.

Secondly, the 15% only applies to the weekly maintenance amount. If,
as often happens, they hit you with a backdated arrears bill, they can
and will make weekly deductions for this also. It is not uncommon for
NRPs to be hit with bills for tens of thousands out of the blue. If
this happens to you, and it is very likely to, then they can deduct up
to 40% from your net income in total in order to claw back the
arrears. This applies whether you are deemed to be under the new or
old system.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but brace yourself for worst case
scenario. It could be that they try to get so much money from you that
you'll be left in poverty. This happened to me.

The reason the CSA don't want to know about mortgage/bills etc. is
because (under the new system) they do not take any of this into
consideration when making the assessment. They don't care whether or
not you can any longer afford to live, the formula is a very rigid
calculation based on a simple percentage of net income.

The number of nights per week you have your daughter does make some
difference under the new system, although it makes a miserly reduction
which doen't reflect the actual cost of this to you. As the law
doesn't recognise the concept of shared care, you'll be hammered for
money even if she stays with you six nights out of seven. As far as
they are concerned, you are the absent parent, even though you're
obviously not absent from your daughters life at all..

Best thing to do? Personally, I think we should all refuse to pay. The
whole thing would collapse overnight.

Otherwise, your best bet is to come to a personal agreement with the
ex and avoid the CSA at all costs. This won't be an option though if
she's claiming benefits.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Gary.

"Mistrimagic"  wrote in message 
news:7a2dnUBtMfxSDkzbnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@pipex.net...
>I don't really want to avoid paying money ( after all she's my baby) but my 
>problem is on a real level my ESSENTIAL outgoings will surpass my 
>incomming, I really don't want to give up work and definately don't want to 
>sell my house. What is the appeals procedure like and do they really take 
>into consideration that this may destroy a life (namely mine)
>
> apart from going round there and venting bottled up anger ( which I 
> suppose won't help, but sure would feel good) ...enough 
> dreaming!!!!!!......where do I stand???

Been through it, still going through it.


On top for a month of working shifts £1800
after tax and csa                               £1050


this is despite appeals etc etc. They did give me £50 for their mistakes. 
LOL.   C*NTS

They will lie at every turn about not receiving letters, info, phone calls 
off you.
They denied I had informed them of a change of circumstance, which was being 
made redundant. AS IF I WOULD KEEP THAT FROM THEM!!  Biggest mistake I made 
was getting another job straight away, I should have waited till the 
ars*holes  had finished jerking my assesment around. The b*stards raised a 
court order against me and I was never informed. I only found out when I got 
pay slip.

Good luck, you'll need it.

">I don't really want to avoid paying money ( after all she's my baby) but 
my
> problem is on a real level my ESSENTIAL outgoings will surpass my 
> incomming, I really don't want to give up work and definately don't want 
> to sell my house. What is the appeals procedure like and do they really 
> take into consideration that this may destroy a life (namely mine)

Regarding an appeal, they will look at the same law which the assessment 
people will look at. They will not take anything else into account. So 
saying to the appeals people that "It will destroy my life" will make no 
differents at all.

The CSA tried to take into account "Essential" outgoings under CSA1 - which 
people didn't like so they are now on CSA2 - which just takes 15% (for 1 
child).

I think you have to regard it like Tax you can not go to the tax man and 
reduce the amount of tax you are paying - it is a set amount.

Some other countries look at the cost it takes to bring up a child - How 
much do you think it would cost? A bit more then £45 a week!

It looks like you might have a slight reduction if your sared care is at 
least 1/7 of the time. Try and work out how many nights she stays with you 
and if on average it is 1 night in 7 then there will be a slight reduction.

I'm sorry for the one to tell you this but you need to go and look at your 
"Essential" outgoing and see what is "Essential".

Mark

On 28 Aug, 11:34, "Mark Dixon"  wrote:

> Regarding an appeal, they will look at the same law which the assessment
> people will look at. They will not take anything else into account. So
> saying to the appeals people that "It will destroy my life" will make no
> differents at all.

Absolutely right. The CSA don't care if they are 'destroying peoples
lives'.

> I think you have to regard it like Tax you can not go to the tax man and
> reduce the amount of tax you are paying - it is a set amount.

It is not a tax and should not be regarded as such, for the following
reasons:

1) Tax by definition is based upon ability to pay, CSA deductions take
no account of this.
2) Tax is deducted by a competent govermental department, the CSA is
run by an incompetent and immoral ragtag of minimum wage beourocrats.
3) You have redress in the courts to defend yourself against unfair
taxation practises, yet you have no legal rights or protection against
the CSA and their ridiculous practises.
4)Tax exists and is necessary for the functioning of a social
infrastructure. The CSA serves no purpose except to extort ridiculous
amount of money from fathers, and furthermore inflicts immeserable
damage to families.

>The CSA tried to take into account "Essential" outgoings under CSA1 - which
>people didn't like so they are now on CSA2 - which just takes 15% (for 1
>child).

Bullshit. The CSA has NEVER attempted to take essential outgoings into
account.

> Some other countries look at the cost it takes to bring up a child - How
> much do you think it would cost? A bit more then £45 a week!

Which countries are you refering to? No country in the world takes so
much money from the absent parent that they are forced into poverty.
Most countries recognise the concept of shared care and make their
child maintenance calculations accordingly.

And why should the absent parent bear the TOTAL cost of bringing up a
child? There are two people involved here, why should the absent
parent foot all the costs?

> It looks like you might have a slight reduction if your sared care is at
> least 1/7 of the time. Try and work out how many nights she stays with you
> and if on average it is 1 night in 7 then there will be a slight reduction.
>
> I'm sorry for the one to tell you this but you need to go and look at your
> "Essential" outgoing and see what is "Essential".

A staggeringly patronising statement obviously made by somebody who
has never been on the receiving end of the CSA.

Do you seriously think that the choice most absent parents have is to
give up the Mercedes or cut down the weekly champagne and cocaine
bills?

Speaking for myself, the assessment made on me would have left me
without the means to pay the rent and buy groceries. So what
essentials do you suggest I give up? Eating or a roof over my head?


Gary.