Woke up this morning to the News (Radio 2) that John Reid is in favour of
providing drugs to paedophiles to diminish their sex drive as he's not in
favour of local communities being made aware of their whereabouts.

Well John, what about NAME AND SHAME, your government has said it will
publicly name and shame FATHERS simply because it is being frustrated in its
efforts to extort cash from them!

Oh I forgot we wouldn't want to shame child rapists now would we or god 
forbid name and shame them & certainly not let parents know anything about 
their whereabouts, No better to just have a voluntary, of course you 
wouldn't want to insist these child rapists take these drugs that would be 
paid for by the tax payer of course.

Now lets get back to the real evil  MEN in our society the ones that fail to 
pay the treasury, goddamit, what filthy criminals, oh how we must get them! 
Right, NAME AND SHAME THEM, tell the world who these people are, stigmatise 
them for life and who cares about their bloody kids possibly getting a 
ostracized at school. Who the hell are they to complain about the hundreds 
of pounds the treasury pockets from them every month in the child support 
swindle. Some of these men have two families so by god they'll pay for both 
families and give a huge chunk to the government too or else their lives 
will be made an utter hell.

Remove their driving licences and interfere with their abilities to get to 
and from work, maybe even make them unemployable like that Driver you Jailed 
in January and who cares if their kids rely heavily on dad transporting 
them, their only scrawny little kids, more meet for the child rapists if 
they have to walk!

Remove their passports. No more travel for these Fathers. Their will be no 
more immigration to escape paying the government.
In fact lets shackle them too, lets make sure we keep them locked up in 
their houses we don't want their kind on the streets do we.

As a government we don't mind potential child rapists walking around the 
neigherhood whether their taking their medicines or not but we are certainly 
not going to have debtor walking around that's for sure.

John just an idea but shouldn't the government just go the whole hog and 
start cutting of  hands or cutting out toungs ah hell! just make it a 
capital offence and string them up and dispense with the mock trials where 
the judge has to go through the motions, you know he's only a puppet, he's 
not allowed to really judge these cases properly anyway, the legislators 
sure seen to that and christ we really don't want the public to made aware 
of that little beauty do we so just issue C-MESS with lugars and they can 
then simply shoot the offending father in the head directly cutting out the 
middleman and the the child rapists roming the streets will soon sort out 
their kids for sure.

Oh sorry John, not your department I see well I'm sure their is no need to 
repeat all of this to that Idiot Hutton, he's got the big stick in his hand 
now hasn't he. He'll hound them, some off them to death I'm sure.

Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
child sex offenders are likewise published.

But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.

So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?

On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
> Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
> that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
> of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
> none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
> child sex offenders are likewise published.
>
> But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
> the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
> shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
> bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
> they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.
>
> So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
> wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
> by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
> sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?

Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
topic now....

There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
- non-paying NRPs.

Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
educational system has declined.......

I think the point that was being made was nothing to do with the actual 
killing of  Mr. Menendez and the issue of whether he should have run or not, 
are all irrelevant. The point is that when the government feel like changing 
the rules to suit them selves, they do just that. (now they want to exclude 
themseves from the freedom of information act) Any way you look at this the 
man was cold bloodedly murdered and not only is anyone being held to account 
but they are being shielded from identification yet at the same time our two 
faced government want to publicly name & shame men who are not even given 
opportunity to have actual debt in question dealt with by a court and found 
upon by a judge as the Judges are specifically excluded from any examination 
or even questioning any matters relating to the debt and if the defendant 
asks a judge to look into this he is simply told its out with the courts 
jurisdiction and he is referred back to his accusers. So in the case of 
murder the government will totally by pass the courts and protect identities 
but in cases where money is at stake they use bent and twisted laws and 
threats name and shame to ensure they squeeze this money from the defendant 
whether the amount it truly correct or even owed at all.

It stinks to high heaven and is a shocking disgrace to British Law and my 
friend that is what will be seen world wide.

Just add a footnote illustrating this government concern over money. USA 
wanted legal proceeding concerning BAE Systems bribes AND THE GOVERNMENT 
just stopped it!

How can we be expected to have any respect for any decisions such a twisted 
government makes?

We certainly cannot be expected to trust them never mind the WMD lies 
leading us into imperialistic invasion and contributing to the murder of 
thousands of women and children.

Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if nothing 
else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god we 
know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, cheating, 
lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still prattle 
on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181795028.193056.190710@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
>> Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
>> that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
>> of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
>> none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
>> child sex offenders are likewise published.
>>
>> But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
>> the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
>> shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
>> bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
>> they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.
>>
>> So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
>> wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
>> by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
>> sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?
>
> Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
> maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
> given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
> unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
> and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
> then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
> topic now....
>
> There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
> paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
> very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
> off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
> an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
> initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
> - non-paying NRPs.
>
> Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
> blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
> in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
> educational system has declined.......
>

On 14 Jun, 12:53, "Fletcher"  wrote:
>> Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if nothing
>> else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god we
>> know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, cheating,
>> lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still prattle
>> on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.


I'm not saying that I don't agree - to a certain extent.
There are parallells to be drawn from every sector of society - even
amongst the NRPs of this world..  even you cannot deny that there ARE
some - not many, but some - who fit the bill of the general picture
painted by the CSA of ALL NRPs.  ie  non-paying, malingering idiots
who don't give a rats arse about their bastard offspring and think
that the government should pick up the bill for them.
Yes, we all feel at times that all of the semi-literate, useless,
lying, cheating, cold hearted employees of the CSA are picking on us
personally..  oops - have I just cast an accurate description of a
very small minority across a whole group of people..  slapped wrists.
You know as well as I do, that the best thing for us to do is get off
of our arses, run for parliament and change the system from within..
hmm, maybe not.

Oh, and I work for BAE Systems on Tornado, so I must be as corrupted
as the rest of them.

Yes inevitably their are some who neither want anything to do with the 
children or to pay towards their upkeep

CSA would have you believe that every NRP is like that and must be 
threatened and hounded like an animal.

Again out of those who are like that a cursory examination of the 
circumstance can help us understand why. at the root of many of these cases 
is the "no child access" barrier, where mother is using the child as a 
weapon against the father. Understandable that he's not contributing to her 
lifestyle. Will the government make any changes that might assist access 
arrangements - No, just the big stick for non payment.

Among the remainder poverty is an issue. In some cases the mother and 
children live vast distance, so father has huge travelling bills and in many 
cases when he does see the children he needs to both feed cloth and provide 
overnight accommodation. Does the government consider any of his costs at 
all - No irrelevant

In other cases the father is almost but not quite a shared carer but she 
keeps the child benefit book so he should pay - Will the government consider 
splitting child benefit thus CSA responsibility - No

And their are many other scenarios.

Very few indeed are absolute dead beat dads.

As for your work, again the company and what is alleged is irrelevant. My 
point is that the government has two different standards, one for theirs and 
one for ours.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181827891.359303.211830@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 14 Jun, 12:53, "Fletcher"  wrote:
>>> Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if 
>>> nothing
>>> else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god 
>>> we
>>> know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, 
>>> cheating,
>>> lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still 
>>> prattle
>>> on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.
>
>
> I'm not saying that I don't agree - to a certain extent.
> There are parallells to be drawn from every sector of society - even
> amongst the NRPs of this world..  even you cannot deny that there ARE
> some - not many, but some - who fit the bill of the general picture
> painted by the CSA of ALL NRPs.  ie  non-paying, malingering idiots
> who don't give a rats arse about their bastard offspring and think
> that the government should pick up the bill for them.
> Yes, we all feel at times that all of the semi-literate, useless,
> lying, cheating, cold hearted employees of the CSA are picking on us
> personally..  oops - have I just cast an accurate description of a
> very small minority across a whole group of people..  slapped wrists.
> You know as well as I do, that the best thing for us to do is get off
> of our arses, run for parliament and change the system from within..
> hmm, maybe not.
>
> Oh, and I work for BAE Systems on Tornado, so I must be as corrupted
> as the rest of them.
>

The point is Fletch, that there ARE fathers (and mothers) out there
who couldn't give a shit about their offspring.  The don't care if
they ever see them and the fact that their ex is making it difficult,
if not downright impossible, for them to see the kids is a ready made
excuse.
99% of us do everything we can to try and see our kids.  I do 1200
miles a month to see mine.  I have no other reason to make the journey
and it costs me a fortyune, but I get no adjustment in my CSA payments
to allow for it.  It's another cost that I take on and lose out
somewhere else.  I also took on almost 30,000 of family debt, which I
am still paying off and will be for several more years to come.  I
left a house full of furniture, clothes, electrical good, luxuries etc
and never asked for any of it.  I had a nice gratuity from the
military for 25 years of service - all went to my ex..  35000 as a
payoff against my military pension, which, even after that she's still
getting almost 1/3 of.  I've been financially ripped apart by the CSA,
solicitors, laws on pensions, but still I fight to make every minute I
can get with my kids worth while.
There are a few - and I stress A FEW - NRPs out there who disappear
off of the face of the earth and don't WANT anything to do with their
kids - these are the people who should be suffering..  those of us who
are suffering now are doing it because we care about our kids.  I for
one don't have time for wallowing in self pity and banging on about
how unjust the whole system is.  Maybe I should, maybe I should risk
losing the contact I've fought so hard to maintain, but this will all
be over in just 3 short years.  At that point my kids will get what
THEY need from me WHEN they need it - I'll not be paying for my ex to
go away on holiday 3 times a year, spend a fortune on fags and the
next size up in clothes, etc etc..
My youngest will leave school in 3 years..  now that is when my ex
will suffer most - my (not too small) monthly payment to her through
the CSA will cease on the day my daughter leaves school.  Will I give
a damn about how much she suffers then?  Will I hell, I'll laugh
myself to sleep for weeks.

Oh, and finally.........
Naming and shaming of child rapists is a complete waste of money and
effort - just shoot them and be done with it.

I agree with you entirely, however I'm not going to sit quietly and say 
nothing about the injustices of this terrible system. It's wrong, very wrong 
we know it, they know it, and the dammed MP'S know it but still it continues 
exactly as it always has done.

After all the shouting in previous years this shitty government are 
attempting to lead everyone straight up the garden path by all this bullshit 
about enforcement and changing its name but essentially nothing is changing, 
its business as usual. Presumably they will continue to keep the difference 
between what they extort from the NRP and what they pay the PWC, while 
continuing to pay out millions in bonuses. How vile is that, when they 
deprive both sets of children?

The discrimination is all set to get worse as they introduce C-MESS 1 or as 
we know it CSA3

Some of us must strive to better this insane system as clearly the present 
government couldn't give a cuss about any of the injustices this agency 
carries out on a daily bases.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181845896.785767.115630@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> The point is Fletch, that there ARE fathers (and mothers) out there
> who couldn't give a shit about their offspring.  The don't care if
> they ever see them and the fact that their ex is making it difficult,
> if not downright impossible, for them to see the kids is a ready made
> excuse.
> 99% of us do everything we can to try and see our kids.  I do 1200
> miles a month to see mine.  I have no other reason to make the journey
> and it costs me a fortyune, but I get no adjustment in my CSA payments
> to allow for it.  It's another cost that I take on and lose out
> somewhere else.  I also took on almost 30,000 of family debt, which I
> am still paying off and will be for several more years to come.  I
> left a house full of furniture, clothes, electrical good, luxuries etc
> and never asked for any of it.  I had a nice gratuity from the
> military for 25 years of service - all went to my ex..  35000 as a
> payoff against my military pension, which, even after that she's still
> getting almost 1/3 of.  I've been financially ripped apart by the CSA,
> solicitors, laws on pensions, but still I fight to make every minute I
> can get with my kids worth while.
> There are a few - and I stress A FEW - NRPs out there who disappear
> off of the face of the earth and don't WANT anything to do with their
> kids - these are the people who should be suffering..  those of us who
> are suffering now are doing it because we care about our kids.  I for
> one don't have time for wallowing in self pity and banging on about
> how unjust the whole system is.  Maybe I should, maybe I should risk
> losing the contact I've fought so hard to maintain, but this will all
> be over in just 3 short years.  At that point my kids will get what
> THEY need from me WHEN they need it - I'll not be paying for my ex to
> go away on holiday 3 times a year, spend a fortune on fags and the
> next size up in clothes, etc etc..
> My youngest will leave school in 3 years..  now that is when my ex
> will suffer most - my (not too small) monthly payment to her through
> the CSA will cease on the day my daughter leaves school.  Will I give
> a damn about how much she suffers then?  Will I hell, I'll laugh
> myself to sleep for weeks.
>
> Oh, and finally.........
> Naming and shaming of child rapists is a complete waste of money and
> effort - just shoot them and be done with it.
>

On 14 Jun, 05:23, JMC  wrote:
> On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
> >
> Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
> maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
> given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
> unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
> and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
> then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
> topic now....
>
> There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
> paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
> very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
> off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
> an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
> initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
> - non-paying NRPs.
>
> Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
> blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
> in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
> educational system has declined.......- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


As Fletcher notes, the issue I raised was one of goverment
inconsistency.

My intention is not to 'spout off' but to add what I thought was a
relevant perspective by drawling parallels which highlight
inconsisitencies.   That said, I do not agree that simply running
makes someone fair game for the poilce.  Menendez was, as I understand
unarmed and shot on the floor of a tube train and the subsequent
enquiry such was deeply embarrasing.

If the goverment or courts have a genuine interest in Child welfare
and if naming and publically shaming fathers is supposed to
demonstrate their commitment to safeguarding child then the Government
and the courts would likewise name and shame the dead-beat mothers who
put two fingers up to the judges making Contact Orders rather turning
a blind eye to what many believe to be not just irresponsible but
tantamount to child abuse.  Is not the the enequal and highly
discriminatory treatment of mothers and fathers not the crux of this
issue?

You can absolutely bet your boots that if this damned agency name and shame 
just one single father website I proposed on the WARNING TO THE BRITISH 
GESTAPO!  thread will become a reality.

We are going to make these bastards regret they ever heard the words name 
and shame, you can count on it, infact we are discussing a tit for tat 
option even if they don't name and shame.

For example every now and again some Father gets it in the neck from these 
bastards like the guy they nailed in January, he gets his fifteen minutes of 
infamy, gets his name spattered all over the internet because he won't part 
with - wait for it about 90% of his monthly income and they fucking jail 
him!

Well we don't think that's very nice or very fair or very proper or very 
just at all so why not post up details of one of these shitty bastards that 
work for this godforsaken scumbag agency, they certainly aren't bloody 
angels.

So like for like everytime we see a fathers name dropped in the shite by 
these bastards we give the world the low-down on one of them a csa worker 
and if the fathers picture goes on a news site, or his wife or his kids we 
post up the CSA shitheads picture to go with the story, giving one of them 
their fifteen minutes of fame.

I'm just totally disgusted by these filthy bastards and the useless MPs and 
the fact that the actual issues that could resolve much of this are 
constantly ignored in favour of the treasury raking in the cash.

They commission reports, the report slates them and their shity practices 
into the ground, it tells it all, the government condemn them saying its not 
fit for purpose they announce it's to close, they say it'll change then all 
we hear is how they are going to beat the crap out of you to get your 
fucking cash and we'll name and shame bullshit but NOTHING actually changes 
at all it just goes on as before, no worse we are told all emphisis is on 
getting cash in.

It's just not on.

 wrote in message 
news:1181904292.516321.99100@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On 14 Jun, 05:23, JMC  wrote:
>> On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
>> >
>> Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
>> maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
>> given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
>> unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
>> and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
>> then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
>> topic now....
>>
>> There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
>> paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
>> very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
>> off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
>> an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
>> initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
>> - non-paying NRPs.
>>
>> Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
>> blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
>> in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
>> educational system has declined.......- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
> As Fletcher notes, the issue I raised was one of goverment
> inconsistency.
>
> My intention is not to 'spout off' but to add what I thought was a
> relevant perspective by drawling parallels which highlight
> inconsisitencies.   That said, I do not agree that simply running
> makes someone fair game for the poilce.  Menendez was, as I understand
> unarmed and shot on the floor of a tube train and the subsequent
> enquiry such was deeply embarrasing.
>
> If the goverment or courts have a genuine interest in Child welfare
> and if naming and publically shaming fathers is supposed to
> demonstrate their commitment to safeguarding child then the Government
> and the courts would likewise name and shame the dead-beat mothers who
> put two fingers up to the judges making Contact Orders rather turning
> a blind eye to what many believe to be not just irresponsible but
> tantamount to child abuse.  Is not the the enequal and highly
> discriminatory treatment of mothers and fathers not the crux of this
> issue?
>
>
>
>

Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
child sex offenders are likewise published.

But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.

So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?

On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
> Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
> that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
> of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
> none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
> child sex offenders are likewise published.
>
> But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
> the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
> shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
> bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
> they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.
>
> So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
> wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
> by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
> sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?

Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
topic now....

There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
- non-paying NRPs.

Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
educational system has declined.......

I think the point that was being made was nothing to do with the actual 
killing of  Mr. Menendez and the issue of whether he should have run or not, 
are all irrelevant. The point is that when the government feel like changing 
the rules to suit them selves, they do just that. (now they want to exclude 
themseves from the freedom of information act) Any way you look at this the 
man was cold bloodedly murdered and not only is anyone being held to account 
but they are being shielded from identification yet at the same time our two 
faced government want to publicly name & shame men who are not even given 
opportunity to have actual debt in question dealt with by a court and found 
upon by a judge as the Judges are specifically excluded from any examination 
or even questioning any matters relating to the debt and if the defendant 
asks a judge to look into this he is simply told its out with the courts 
jurisdiction and he is referred back to his accusers. So in the case of 
murder the government will totally by pass the courts and protect identities 
but in cases where money is at stake they use bent and twisted laws and 
threats name and shame to ensure they squeeze this money from the defendant 
whether the amount it truly correct or even owed at all.

It stinks to high heaven and is a shocking disgrace to British Law and my 
friend that is what will be seen world wide.

Just add a footnote illustrating this government concern over money. USA 
wanted legal proceeding concerning BAE Systems bribes AND THE GOVERNMENT 
just stopped it!

How can we be expected to have any respect for any decisions such a twisted 
government makes?

We certainly cannot be expected to trust them never mind the WMD lies 
leading us into imperialistic invasion and contributing to the murder of 
thousands of women and children.

Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if nothing 
else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god we 
know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, cheating, 
lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still prattle 
on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181795028.193056.190710@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
>> Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
>> that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
>> of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
>> none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
>> child sex offenders are likewise published.
>>
>> But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
>> the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
>> shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
>> bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
>> they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.
>>
>> So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
>> wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
>> by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
>> sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?
>
> Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
> maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
> given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
> unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
> and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
> then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
> topic now....
>
> There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
> paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
> very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
> off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
> an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
> initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
> - non-paying NRPs.
>
> Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
> blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
> in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
> educational system has declined.......
>

On 14 Jun, 12:53, "Fletcher"  wrote:
>> Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if nothing
>> else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god we
>> know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, cheating,
>> lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still prattle
>> on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.


I'm not saying that I don't agree - to a certain extent.
There are parallells to be drawn from every sector of society - even
amongst the NRPs of this world..  even you cannot deny that there ARE
some - not many, but some - who fit the bill of the general picture
painted by the CSA of ALL NRPs.  ie  non-paying, malingering idiots
who don't give a rats arse about their bastard offspring and think
that the government should pick up the bill for them.
Yes, we all feel at times that all of the semi-literate, useless,
lying, cheating, cold hearted employees of the CSA are picking on us
personally..  oops - have I just cast an accurate description of a
very small minority across a whole group of people..  slapped wrists.
You know as well as I do, that the best thing for us to do is get off
of our arses, run for parliament and change the system from within..
hmm, maybe not.

Oh, and I work for BAE Systems on Tornado, so I must be as corrupted
as the rest of them.

Yes inevitably their are some who neither want anything to do with the 
children or to pay towards their upkeep

CSA would have you believe that every NRP is like that and must be 
threatened and hounded like an animal.

Again out of those who are like that a cursory examination of the 
circumstance can help us understand why. at the root of many of these cases 
is the "no child access" barrier, where mother is using the child as a 
weapon against the father. Understandable that he's not contributing to her 
lifestyle. Will the government make any changes that might assist access 
arrangements - No, just the big stick for non payment.

Among the remainder poverty is an issue. In some cases the mother and 
children live vast distance, so father has huge travelling bills and in many 
cases when he does see the children he needs to both feed cloth and provide 
overnight accommodation. Does the government consider any of his costs at 
all - No irrelevant

In other cases the father is almost but not quite a shared carer but she 
keeps the child benefit book so he should pay - Will the government consider 
splitting child benefit thus CSA responsibility - No

And their are many other scenarios.

Very few indeed are absolute dead beat dads.

As for your work, again the company and what is alleged is irrelevant. My 
point is that the government has two different standards, one for theirs and 
one for ours.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181827891.359303.211830@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 14 Jun, 12:53, "Fletcher"  wrote:
>>> Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if 
>>> nothing
>>> else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god 
>>> we
>>> know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, 
>>> cheating,
>>> lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still 
>>> prattle
>>> on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.
>
>
> I'm not saying that I don't agree - to a certain extent.
> There are parallells to be drawn from every sector of society - even
> amongst the NRPs of this world..  even you cannot deny that there ARE
> some - not many, but some - who fit the bill of the general picture
> painted by the CSA of ALL NRPs.  ie  non-paying, malingering idiots
> who don't give a rats arse about their bastard offspring and think
> that the government should pick up the bill for them.
> Yes, we all feel at times that all of the semi-literate, useless,
> lying, cheating, cold hearted employees of the CSA are picking on us
> personally..  oops - have I just cast an accurate description of a
> very small minority across a whole group of people..  slapped wrists.
> You know as well as I do, that the best thing for us to do is get off
> of our arses, run for parliament and change the system from within..
> hmm, maybe not.
>
> Oh, and I work for BAE Systems on Tornado, so I must be as corrupted
> as the rest of them.
>

The point is Fletch, that there ARE fathers (and mothers) out there
who couldn't give a shit about their offspring.  The don't care if
they ever see them and the fact that their ex is making it difficult,
if not downright impossible, for them to see the kids is a ready made
excuse.
99% of us do everything we can to try and see our kids.  I do 1200
miles a month to see mine.  I have no other reason to make the journey
and it costs me a fortyune, but I get no adjustment in my CSA payments
to allow for it.  It's another cost that I take on and lose out
somewhere else.  I also took on almost 30,000 of family debt, which I
am still paying off and will be for several more years to come.  I
left a house full of furniture, clothes, electrical good, luxuries etc
and never asked for any of it.  I had a nice gratuity from the
military for 25 years of service - all went to my ex..  35000 as a
payoff against my military pension, which, even after that she's still
getting almost 1/3 of.  I've been financially ripped apart by the CSA,
solicitors, laws on pensions, but still I fight to make every minute I
can get with my kids worth while.
There are a few - and I stress A FEW - NRPs out there who disappear
off of the face of the earth and don't WANT anything to do with their
kids - these are the people who should be suffering..  those of us who
are suffering now are doing it because we care about our kids.  I for
one don't have time for wallowing in self pity and banging on about
how unjust the whole system is.  Maybe I should, maybe I should risk
losing the contact I've fought so hard to maintain, but this will all
be over in just 3 short years.  At that point my kids will get what
THEY need from me WHEN they need it - I'll not be paying for my ex to
go away on holiday 3 times a year, spend a fortune on fags and the
next size up in clothes, etc etc..
My youngest will leave school in 3 years..  now that is when my ex
will suffer most - my (not too small) monthly payment to her through
the CSA will cease on the day my daughter leaves school.  Will I give
a damn about how much she suffers then?  Will I hell, I'll laugh
myself to sleep for weeks.

Oh, and finally.........
Naming and shaming of child rapists is a complete waste of money and
effort - just shoot them and be done with it.

I agree with you entirely, however I'm not going to sit quietly and say 
nothing about the injustices of this terrible system. It's wrong, very wrong 
we know it, they know it, and the dammed MP'S know it but still it continues 
exactly as it always has done.

After all the shouting in previous years this shitty government are 
attempting to lead everyone straight up the garden path by all this bullshit 
about enforcement and changing its name but essentially nothing is changing, 
its business as usual. Presumably they will continue to keep the difference 
between what they extort from the NRP and what they pay the PWC, while 
continuing to pay out millions in bonuses. How vile is that, when they 
deprive both sets of children?

The discrimination is all set to get worse as they introduce C-MESS 1 or as 
we know it CSA3

Some of us must strive to better this insane system as clearly the present 
government couldn't give a cuss about any of the injustices this agency 
carries out on a daily bases.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181845896.785767.115630@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> The point is Fletch, that there ARE fathers (and mothers) out there
> who couldn't give a shit about their offspring.  The don't care if
> they ever see them and the fact that their ex is making it difficult,
> if not downright impossible, for them to see the kids is a ready made
> excuse.
> 99% of us do everything we can to try and see our kids.  I do 1200
> miles a month to see mine.  I have no other reason to make the journey
> and it costs me a fortyune, but I get no adjustment in my CSA payments
> to allow for it.  It's another cost that I take on and lose out
> somewhere else.  I also took on almost 30,000 of family debt, which I
> am still paying off and will be for several more years to come.  I
> left a house full of furniture, clothes, electrical good, luxuries etc
> and never asked for any of it.  I had a nice gratuity from the
> military for 25 years of service - all went to my ex..  35000 as a
> payoff against my military pension, which, even after that she's still
> getting almost 1/3 of.  I've been financially ripped apart by the CSA,
> solicitors, laws on pensions, but still I fight to make every minute I
> can get with my kids worth while.
> There are a few - and I stress A FEW - NRPs out there who disappear
> off of the face of the earth and don't WANT anything to do with their
> kids - these are the people who should be suffering..  those of us who
> are suffering now are doing it because we care about our kids.  I for
> one don't have time for wallowing in self pity and banging on about
> how unjust the whole system is.  Maybe I should, maybe I should risk
> losing the contact I've fought so hard to maintain, but this will all
> be over in just 3 short years.  At that point my kids will get what
> THEY need from me WHEN they need it - I'll not be paying for my ex to
> go away on holiday 3 times a year, spend a fortune on fags and the
> next size up in clothes, etc etc..
> My youngest will leave school in 3 years..  now that is when my ex
> will suffer most - my (not too small) monthly payment to her through
> the CSA will cease on the day my daughter leaves school.  Will I give
> a damn about how much she suffers then?  Will I hell, I'll laugh
> myself to sleep for weeks.
>
> Oh, and finally.........
> Naming and shaming of child rapists is a complete waste of money and
> effort - just shoot them and be done with it.
>

On 14 Jun, 05:23, JMC  wrote:
> On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
> >
> Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
> maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
> given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
> unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
> and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
> then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
> topic now....
>
> There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
> paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
> very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
> off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
> an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
> initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
> - non-paying NRPs.
>
> Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
> blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
> in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
> educational system has declined.......- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


As Fletcher notes, the issue I raised was one of goverment
inconsistency.

My intention is not to 'spout off' but to add what I thought was a
relevant perspective by drawling parallels which highlight
inconsisitencies.   That said, I do not agree that simply running
makes someone fair game for the poilce.  Menendez was, as I understand
unarmed and shot on the floor of a tube train and the subsequent
enquiry such was deeply embarrasing.

If the goverment or courts have a genuine interest in Child welfare
and if naming and publically shaming fathers is supposed to
demonstrate their commitment to safeguarding child then the Government
and the courts would likewise name and shame the dead-beat mothers who
put two fingers up to the judges making Contact Orders rather turning
a blind eye to what many believe to be not just irresponsible but
tantamount to child abuse.  Is not the the enequal and highly
discriminatory treatment of mothers and fathers not the crux of this
issue?

You can absolutely bet your boots that if this damned agency name and shame 
just one single father website I proposed on the WARNING TO THE BRITISH 
GESTAPO!  thread will become a reality.

We are going to make these bastards regret they ever heard the words name 
and shame, you can count on it, infact we are discussing a tit for tat 
option even if they don't name and shame.

For example every now and again some Father gets it in the neck from these 
bastards like the guy they nailed in January, he gets his fifteen minutes of 
infamy, gets his name spattered all over the internet because he won't part 
with - wait for it about 90% of his monthly income and they fucking jail 
him!

Well we don't think that's very nice or very fair or very proper or very 
just at all so why not post up details of one of these shitty bastards that 
work for this godforsaken scumbag agency, they certainly aren't bloody 
angels.

So like for like everytime we see a fathers name dropped in the shite by 
these bastards we give the world the low-down on one of them a csa worker 
and if the fathers picture goes on a news site, or his wife or his kids we 
post up the CSA shitheads picture to go with the story, giving one of them 
their fifteen minutes of fame.

I'm just totally disgusted by these filthy bastards and the useless MPs and 
the fact that the actual issues that could resolve much of this are 
constantly ignored in favour of the treasury raking in the cash.

They commission reports, the report slates them and their shity practices 
into the ground, it tells it all, the government condemn them saying its not 
fit for purpose they announce it's to close, they say it'll change then all 
we hear is how they are going to beat the crap out of you to get your 
fucking cash and we'll name and shame bullshit but NOTHING actually changes 
at all it just goes on as before, no worse we are told all emphisis is on 
getting cash in.

It's just not on.

 wrote in message 
news:1181904292.516321.99100@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On 14 Jun, 05:23, JMC  wrote:
>> On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
>> >
>> Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
>> maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
>> given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
>> unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
>> and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
>> then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
>> topic now....
>>
>> There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
>> paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
>> very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
>> off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
>> an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
>> initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
>> - non-paying NRPs.
>>
>> Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
>> blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
>> in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
>> educational system has declined.......- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
> As Fletcher notes, the issue I raised was one of goverment
> inconsistency.
>
> My intention is not to 'spout off' but to add what I thought was a
> relevant perspective by drawling parallels which highlight
> inconsisitencies.   That said, I do not agree that simply running
> makes someone fair game for the poilce.  Menendez was, as I understand
> unarmed and shot on the floor of a tube train and the subsequent
> enquiry such was deeply embarrasing.
>
> If the goverment or courts have a genuine interest in Child welfare
> and if naming and publically shaming fathers is supposed to
> demonstrate their commitment to safeguarding child then the Government
> and the courts would likewise name and shame the dead-beat mothers who
> put two fingers up to the judges making Contact Orders rather turning
> a blind eye to what many believe to be not just irresponsible but
> tantamount to child abuse.  Is not the the enequal and highly
> discriminatory treatment of mothers and fathers not the crux of this
> issue?
>
>
>
>

Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
child sex offenders are likewise published.

But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.

So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?

On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
> Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
> that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
> of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
> none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
> child sex offenders are likewise published.
>
> But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
> the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
> shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
> bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
> they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.
>
> So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
> wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
> by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
> sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?

Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
topic now....

There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
- non-paying NRPs.

Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
educational system has declined.......

I think the point that was being made was nothing to do with the actual 
killing of  Mr. Menendez and the issue of whether he should have run or not, 
are all irrelevant. The point is that when the government feel like changing 
the rules to suit them selves, they do just that. (now they want to exclude 
themseves from the freedom of information act) Any way you look at this the 
man was cold bloodedly murdered and not only is anyone being held to account 
but they are being shielded from identification yet at the same time our two 
faced government want to publicly name & shame men who are not even given 
opportunity to have actual debt in question dealt with by a court and found 
upon by a judge as the Judges are specifically excluded from any examination 
or even questioning any matters relating to the debt and if the defendant 
asks a judge to look into this he is simply told its out with the courts 
jurisdiction and he is referred back to his accusers. So in the case of 
murder the government will totally by pass the courts and protect identities 
but in cases where money is at stake they use bent and twisted laws and 
threats name and shame to ensure they squeeze this money from the defendant 
whether the amount it truly correct or even owed at all.

It stinks to high heaven and is a shocking disgrace to British Law and my 
friend that is what will be seen world wide.

Just add a footnote illustrating this government concern over money. USA 
wanted legal proceeding concerning BAE Systems bribes AND THE GOVERNMENT 
just stopped it!

How can we be expected to have any respect for any decisions such a twisted 
government makes?

We certainly cannot be expected to trust them never mind the WMD lies 
leading us into imperialistic invasion and contributing to the murder of 
thousands of women and children.

Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if nothing 
else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god we 
know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, cheating, 
lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still prattle 
on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181795028.193056.190710@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
>> Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
>> that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
>> of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
>> none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
>> child sex offenders are likewise published.
>>
>> But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
>> the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
>> shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
>> bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
>> they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.
>>
>> So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
>> wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
>> by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
>> sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?
>
> Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
> maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
> given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
> unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
> and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
> then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
> topic now....
>
> There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
> paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
> very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
> off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
> an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
> initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
> - non-paying NRPs.
>
> Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
> blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
> in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
> educational system has declined.......
>

On 14 Jun, 12:53, "Fletcher"  wrote:
>> Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if nothing
>> else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god we
>> know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, cheating,
>> lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still prattle
>> on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.


I'm not saying that I don't agree - to a certain extent.
There are parallells to be drawn from every sector of society - even
amongst the NRPs of this world..  even you cannot deny that there ARE
some - not many, but some - who fit the bill of the general picture
painted by the CSA of ALL NRPs.  ie  non-paying, malingering idiots
who don't give a rats arse about their bastard offspring and think
that the government should pick up the bill for them.
Yes, we all feel at times that all of the semi-literate, useless,
lying, cheating, cold hearted employees of the CSA are picking on us
personally..  oops - have I just cast an accurate description of a
very small minority across a whole group of people..  slapped wrists.
You know as well as I do, that the best thing for us to do is get off
of our arses, run for parliament and change the system from within..
hmm, maybe not.

Oh, and I work for BAE Systems on Tornado, so I must be as corrupted
as the rest of them.

Yes inevitably their are some who neither want anything to do with the 
children or to pay towards their upkeep

CSA would have you believe that every NRP is like that and must be 
threatened and hounded like an animal.

Again out of those who are like that a cursory examination of the 
circumstance can help us understand why. at the root of many of these cases 
is the "no child access" barrier, where mother is using the child as a 
weapon against the father. Understandable that he's not contributing to her 
lifestyle. Will the government make any changes that might assist access 
arrangements - No, just the big stick for non payment.

Among the remainder poverty is an issue. In some cases the mother and 
children live vast distance, so father has huge travelling bills and in many 
cases when he does see the children he needs to both feed cloth and provide 
overnight accommodation. Does the government consider any of his costs at 
all - No irrelevant

In other cases the father is almost but not quite a shared carer but she 
keeps the child benefit book so he should pay - Will the government consider 
splitting child benefit thus CSA responsibility - No

And their are many other scenarios.

Very few indeed are absolute dead beat dads.

As for your work, again the company and what is alleged is irrelevant. My 
point is that the government has two different standards, one for theirs and 
one for ours.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181827891.359303.211830@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 14 Jun, 12:53, "Fletcher"  wrote:
>>> Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if 
>>> nothing
>>> else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god 
>>> we
>>> know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, 
>>> cheating,
>>> lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still 
>>> prattle
>>> on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.
>
>
> I'm not saying that I don't agree - to a certain extent.
> There are parallells to be drawn from every sector of society - even
> amongst the NRPs of this world..  even you cannot deny that there ARE
> some - not many, but some - who fit the bill of the general picture
> painted by the CSA of ALL NRPs.  ie  non-paying, malingering idiots
> who don't give a rats arse about their bastard offspring and think
> that the government should pick up the bill for them.
> Yes, we all feel at times that all of the semi-literate, useless,
> lying, cheating, cold hearted employees of the CSA are picking on us
> personally..  oops - have I just cast an accurate description of a
> very small minority across a whole group of people..  slapped wrists.
> You know as well as I do, that the best thing for us to do is get off
> of our arses, run for parliament and change the system from within..
> hmm, maybe not.
>
> Oh, and I work for BAE Systems on Tornado, so I must be as corrupted
> as the rest of them.
>

The point is Fletch, that there ARE fathers (and mothers) out there
who couldn't give a shit about their offspring.  The don't care if
they ever see them and the fact that their ex is making it difficult,
if not downright impossible, for them to see the kids is a ready made
excuse.
99% of us do everything we can to try and see our kids.  I do 1200
miles a month to see mine.  I have no other reason to make the journey
and it costs me a fortyune, but I get no adjustment in my CSA payments
to allow for it.  It's another cost that I take on and lose out
somewhere else.  I also took on almost 30,000 of family debt, which I
am still paying off and will be for several more years to come.  I
left a house full of furniture, clothes, electrical good, luxuries etc
and never asked for any of it.  I had a nice gratuity from the
military for 25 years of service - all went to my ex..  35000 as a
payoff against my military pension, which, even after that she's still
getting almost 1/3 of.  I've been financially ripped apart by the CSA,
solicitors, laws on pensions, but still I fight to make every minute I
can get with my kids worth while.
There are a few - and I stress A FEW - NRPs out there who disappear
off of the face of the earth and don't WANT anything to do with their
kids - these are the people who should be suffering..  those of us who
are suffering now are doing it because we care about our kids.  I for
one don't have time for wallowing in self pity and banging on about
how unjust the whole system is.  Maybe I should, maybe I should risk
losing the contact I've fought so hard to maintain, but this will all
be over in just 3 short years.  At that point my kids will get what
THEY need from me WHEN they need it - I'll not be paying for my ex to
go away on holiday 3 times a year, spend a fortune on fags and the
next size up in clothes, etc etc..
My youngest will leave school in 3 years..  now that is when my ex
will suffer most - my (not too small) monthly payment to her through
the CSA will cease on the day my daughter leaves school.  Will I give
a damn about how much she suffers then?  Will I hell, I'll laugh
myself to sleep for weeks.

Oh, and finally.........
Naming and shaming of child rapists is a complete waste of money and
effort - just shoot them and be done with it.

I agree with you entirely, however I'm not going to sit quietly and say 
nothing about the injustices of this terrible system. It's wrong, very wrong 
we know it, they know it, and the dammed MP'S know it but still it continues 
exactly as it always has done.

After all the shouting in previous years this shitty government are 
attempting to lead everyone straight up the garden path by all this bullshit 
about enforcement and changing its name but essentially nothing is changing, 
its business as usual. Presumably they will continue to keep the difference 
between what they extort from the NRP and what they pay the PWC, while 
continuing to pay out millions in bonuses. How vile is that, when they 
deprive both sets of children?

The discrimination is all set to get worse as they introduce C-MESS 1 or as 
we know it CSA3

Some of us must strive to better this insane system as clearly the present 
government couldn't give a cuss about any of the injustices this agency 
carries out on a daily bases.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181845896.785767.115630@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> The point is Fletch, that there ARE fathers (and mothers) out there
> who couldn't give a shit about their offspring.  The don't care if
> they ever see them and the fact that their ex is making it difficult,
> if not downright impossible, for them to see the kids is a ready made
> excuse.
> 99% of us do everything we can to try and see our kids.  I do 1200
> miles a month to see mine.  I have no other reason to make the journey
> and it costs me a fortyune, but I get no adjustment in my CSA payments
> to allow for it.  It's another cost that I take on and lose out
> somewhere else.  I also took on almost 30,000 of family debt, which I
> am still paying off and will be for several more years to come.  I
> left a house full of furniture, clothes, electrical good, luxuries etc
> and never asked for any of it.  I had a nice gratuity from the
> military for 25 years of service - all went to my ex..  35000 as a
> payoff against my military pension, which, even after that she's still
> getting almost 1/3 of.  I've been financially ripped apart by the CSA,
> solicitors, laws on pensions, but still I fight to make every minute I
> can get with my kids worth while.
> There are a few - and I stress A FEW - NRPs out there who disappear
> off of the face of the earth and don't WANT anything to do with their
> kids - these are the people who should be suffering..  those of us who
> are suffering now are doing it because we care about our kids.  I for
> one don't have time for wallowing in self pity and banging on about
> how unjust the whole system is.  Maybe I should, maybe I should risk
> losing the contact I've fought so hard to maintain, but this will all
> be over in just 3 short years.  At that point my kids will get what
> THEY need from me WHEN they need it - I'll not be paying for my ex to
> go away on holiday 3 times a year, spend a fortune on fags and the
> next size up in clothes, etc etc..
> My youngest will leave school in 3 years..  now that is when my ex
> will suffer most - my (not too small) monthly payment to her through
> the CSA will cease on the day my daughter leaves school.  Will I give
> a damn about how much she suffers then?  Will I hell, I'll laugh
> myself to sleep for weeks.
>
> Oh, and finally.........
> Naming and shaming of child rapists is a complete waste of money and
> effort - just shoot them and be done with it.
>

On 14 Jun, 05:23, JMC  wrote:
> On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
> >
> Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
> maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
> given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
> unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
> and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
> then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
> topic now....
>
> There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
> paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
> very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
> off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
> an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
> initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
> - non-paying NRPs.
>
> Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
> blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
> in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
> educational system has declined.......- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


As Fletcher notes, the issue I raised was one of goverment
inconsistency.

My intention is not to 'spout off' but to add what I thought was a
relevant perspective by drawling parallels which highlight
inconsisitencies.   That said, I do not agree that simply running
makes someone fair game for the poilce.  Menendez was, as I understand
unarmed and shot on the floor of a tube train and the subsequent
enquiry such was deeply embarrasing.

If the goverment or courts have a genuine interest in Child welfare
and if naming and publically shaming fathers is supposed to
demonstrate their commitment to safeguarding child then the Government
and the courts would likewise name and shame the dead-beat mothers who
put two fingers up to the judges making Contact Orders rather turning
a blind eye to what many believe to be not just irresponsible but
tantamount to child abuse.  Is not the the enequal and highly
discriminatory treatment of mothers and fathers not the crux of this
issue?

You can absolutely bet your boots that if this damned agency name and shame 
just one single father website I proposed on the WARNING TO THE BRITISH 
GESTAPO!  thread will become a reality.

We are going to make these bastards regret they ever heard the words name 
and shame, you can count on it, infact we are discussing a tit for tat 
option even if they don't name and shame.

For example every now and again some Father gets it in the neck from these 
bastards like the guy they nailed in January, he gets his fifteen minutes of 
infamy, gets his name spattered all over the internet because he won't part 
with - wait for it about 90% of his monthly income and they fucking jail 
him!

Well we don't think that's very nice or very fair or very proper or very 
just at all so why not post up details of one of these shitty bastards that 
work for this godforsaken scumbag agency, they certainly aren't bloody 
angels.

So like for like everytime we see a fathers name dropped in the shite by 
these bastards we give the world the low-down on one of them a csa worker 
and if the fathers picture goes on a news site, or his wife or his kids we 
post up the CSA shitheads picture to go with the story, giving one of them 
their fifteen minutes of fame.

I'm just totally disgusted by these filthy bastards and the useless MPs and 
the fact that the actual issues that could resolve much of this are 
constantly ignored in favour of the treasury raking in the cash.

They commission reports, the report slates them and their shity practices 
into the ground, it tells it all, the government condemn them saying its not 
fit for purpose they announce it's to close, they say it'll change then all 
we hear is how they are going to beat the crap out of you to get your 
fucking cash and we'll name and shame bullshit but NOTHING actually changes 
at all it just goes on as before, no worse we are told all emphisis is on 
getting cash in.

It's just not on.

 wrote in message 
news:1181904292.516321.99100@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On 14 Jun, 05:23, JMC  wrote:
>> On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
>> >
>> Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
>> maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
>> given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
>> unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
>> and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
>> then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
>> topic now....
>>
>> There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
>> paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
>> very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
>> off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
>> an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
>> initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
>> - non-paying NRPs.
>>
>> Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
>> blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
>> in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
>> educational system has declined.......- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
> As Fletcher notes, the issue I raised was one of goverment
> inconsistency.
>
> My intention is not to 'spout off' but to add what I thought was a
> relevant perspective by drawling parallels which highlight
> inconsisitencies.   That said, I do not agree that simply running
> makes someone fair game for the poilce.  Menendez was, as I understand
> unarmed and shot on the floor of a tube train and the subsequent
> enquiry such was deeply embarrasing.
>
> If the goverment or courts have a genuine interest in Child welfare
> and if naming and publically shaming fathers is supposed to
> demonstrate their commitment to safeguarding child then the Government
> and the courts would likewise name and shame the dead-beat mothers who
> put two fingers up to the judges making Contact Orders rather turning
> a blind eye to what many believe to be not just irresponsible but
> tantamount to child abuse.  Is not the the enequal and highly
> discriminatory treatment of mothers and fathers not the crux of this
> issue?
>
>
>
>

Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
child sex offenders are likewise published.

But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.

So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?

On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
> Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
> that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
> of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
> none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
> child sex offenders are likewise published.
>
> But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
> the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
> shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
> bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
> they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.
>
> So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
> wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
> by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
> sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?

Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
topic now....

There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
- non-paying NRPs.

Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
educational system has declined.......

I think the point that was being made was nothing to do with the actual 
killing of  Mr. Menendez and the issue of whether he should have run or not, 
are all irrelevant. The point is that when the government feel like changing 
the rules to suit them selves, they do just that. (now they want to exclude 
themseves from the freedom of information act) Any way you look at this the 
man was cold bloodedly murdered and not only is anyone being held to account 
but they are being shielded from identification yet at the same time our two 
faced government want to publicly name & shame men who are not even given 
opportunity to have actual debt in question dealt with by a court and found 
upon by a judge as the Judges are specifically excluded from any examination 
or even questioning any matters relating to the debt and if the defendant 
asks a judge to look into this he is simply told its out with the courts 
jurisdiction and he is referred back to his accusers. So in the case of 
murder the government will totally by pass the courts and protect identities 
but in cases where money is at stake they use bent and twisted laws and 
threats name and shame to ensure they squeeze this money from the defendant 
whether the amount it truly correct or even owed at all.

It stinks to high heaven and is a shocking disgrace to British Law and my 
friend that is what will be seen world wide.

Just add a footnote illustrating this government concern over money. USA 
wanted legal proceeding concerning BAE Systems bribes AND THE GOVERNMENT 
just stopped it!

How can we be expected to have any respect for any decisions such a twisted 
government makes?

We certainly cannot be expected to trust them never mind the WMD lies 
leading us into imperialistic invasion and contributing to the murder of 
thousands of women and children.

Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if nothing 
else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god we 
know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, cheating, 
lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still prattle 
on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181795028.193056.190710@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 13 Jun, 11:57, csad...@fsmail.net wrote:
>> Something of a consistency issue here - it appears it is important
>> that the public know the names and addresses of fathers falling foul
>> of the CSA, (a goverment department whose incompetence is second to
>> none), but it is not appropriate that similar details of convicted
>> child sex offenders are likewise published.
>>
>> But this is not the only glaring amomily. For example, there is also
>> the issue of police officers who were responsible for the wrongful
>> shooting of people like Charles Menendez, an innocent unarmed
>> bystander pinned down and shot by police on the tube.   Not only are
>> they not prosecuted but their names remain secret.
>>
>> So who are the public most in danger from, gun touting police who
>> wrongfully shoot people, or fathers, singled out as an easy pay bonus
>> by goverment employees, who are the victims of incomprensible, unfair,
>> sexist legislation and the Ministry of Incompetence?
>
> Oh come on...  gun touting police shooting innocent bystanders??  Ok,
> maybe this time the guy was innocent, but he was bloody stupid to run
> given what had been going on around the time...  what about the
> unarmed cops killed trying to keep the real criminals off the streets
> and away from you and me - unless of course you are an armed criminal,
> then of course they ARE out to get you..  but this is WAAAAAY off
> topic now....
>
> There are massive anomalies with the governments treatment of non-
> paying NRPs (mothers also fall into this category, although admittedly
> very few).  Just for the record though, before you start spouting
> off ..  I'm a NRP and have been pushed from pillar to post by the CSA,
> an organisation (?maybe a conflict of terms here?) which was formed
> initially to get the very people it doesn't give a damn about catching
> - non-paying NRPs.
>
> Yes, we can all be pissed off for whatever reasons we want, but
> blindly throwing accusations and relating every bad thing that happens
> in our country to the CSA is just showing the world how much the UK's
> educational system has declined.......
>

On 14 Jun, 12:53, "Fletcher"  wrote:
>> Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if nothing
>> else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god we
>> know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, cheating,
>> lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still prattle
>> on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.


I'm not saying that I don't agree - to a certain extent.
There are parallells to be drawn from every sector of society - even
amongst the NRPs of this world..  even you cannot deny that there ARE
some - not many, but some - who fit the bill of the general picture
painted by the CSA of ALL NRPs.  ie  non-paying, malingering idiots
who don't give a rats arse about their bastard offspring and think
that the government should pick up the bill for them.
Yes, we all feel at times that all of the semi-literate, useless,
lying, cheating, cold hearted employees of the CSA are picking on us
personally..  oops - have I just cast an accurate description of a
very small minority across a whole group of people..  slapped wrists.
You know as well as I do, that the best thing for us to do is get off
of our arses, run for parliament and change the system from within..
hmm, maybe not.

Oh, and I work for BAE Systems on Tornado, so I must be as corrupted
as the rest of them.

Yes inevitably their are some who neither want anything to do with the 
children or to pay towards their upkeep

CSA would have you believe that every NRP is like that and must be 
threatened and hounded like an animal.

Again out of those who are like that a cursory examination of the 
circumstance can help us understand why. at the root of many of these cases 
is the "no child access" barrier, where mother is using the child as a 
weapon against the father. Understandable that he's not contributing to her 
lifestyle. Will the government make any changes that might assist access 
arrangements - No, just the big stick for non payment.

Among the remainder poverty is an issue. In some cases the mother and 
children live vast distance, so father has huge travelling bills and in many 
cases when he does see the children he needs to both feed cloth and provide 
overnight accommodation. Does the government consider any of his costs at 
all - No irrelevant

In other cases the father is almost but not quite a shared carer but she 
keeps the child benefit book so he should pay - Will the government consider 
splitting child benefit thus CSA responsibility - No

And their are many other scenarios.

Very few indeed are absolute dead beat dads.

As for your work, again the company and what is alleged is irrelevant. My 
point is that the government has two different standards, one for theirs and 
one for ours.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181827891.359303.211830@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 14 Jun, 12:53, "Fletcher"  wrote:
>>> Agreed all somewhat of topic but collectively it tells a tale and if 
>>> nothing
>>> else should serve to show that CSA is at the very least suspect and god 
>>> we
>>> know its riddled with errors, mal administration, dad training, 
>>> cheating,
>>> lying we have all of this documented yet the likes of Hutton still 
>>> prattle
>>> on about name and shame without being properly dealt with in court.
>
>
> I'm not saying that I don't agree - to a certain extent.
> There are parallells to be drawn from every sector of society - even
> amongst the NRPs of this world..  even you cannot deny that there ARE
> some - not many, but some - who fit the bill of the general picture
> painted by the CSA of ALL NRPs.  ie  non-paying, malingering idiots
> who don't give a rats arse about their bastard offspring and think
> that the government should pick up the bill for them.
> Yes, we all feel at times that all of the semi-literate, useless,
> lying, cheating, cold hearted employees of the CSA are picking on us
> personally..  oops - have I just cast an accurate description of a
> very small minority across a whole group of people..  slapped wrists.
> You know as well as I do, that the best thing for us to do is get off
> of our arses, run for parliament and change the system from within..
> hmm, maybe not.
>
> Oh, and I work for BAE Systems on Tornado, so I must be as corrupted
> as the rest of them.
>

The point is Fletch, that there ARE fathers (and mothers) out there
who couldn't give a shit about their offspring.  The don't care if
they ever see them and the fact that their ex is making it difficult,
if not downright impossible, for them to see the kids is a ready made
excuse.
99% of us do everything we can to try and see our kids.  I do 1200
miles a month to see mine.  I have no other reason to make the journey
and it costs me a fortyune, but I get no adjustment in my CSA payments
to allow for it.  It's another cost that I take on and lose out
somewhere else.  I also took on almost 30,000 of family debt, which I
am still paying off and will be for several more years to come.  I
left a house full of furniture, clothes, electrical good, luxuries etc
and never asked for any of it.  I had a nice gratuity from the
military for 25 years of service - all went to my ex..  35000 as a
payoff against my military pension, which, even after that she's still
getting almost 1/3 of.  I've been financially ripped apart by the CSA,
solicitors, laws on pensions, but still I fight to make every minute I
can get with my kids worth while.
There are a few - and I stress A FEW - NRPs out there who disappear
off of the face of the earth and don't WANT anything to do with their
kids - these are the people who should be suffering..  those of us who
are suffering now are doing it because we care about our kids.  I for
one don't have time for wallowing in self pity and banging on about
how unjust the whole system is.  Maybe I should, maybe I should risk
losing the contact I've fought so hard to maintain, but this will all
be over in just 3 short years.  At that point my kids will get what
THEY need from me WHEN they need it - I'll not be paying for my ex to
go away on holiday 3 times a year, spend a fortune on fags and the
next size up in clothes, etc etc..
My youngest will leave school in 3 years..  now that is when my ex
will suffer most - my (not too small) monthly payment to her through
the CSA will cease on the day my daughter leaves school.  Will I give
a damn about how much she suffers then?  Will I hell, I'll laugh
myself to sleep for weeks.

Oh, and finally.........
Naming and shaming of child rapists is a complete waste of money and
effort - just shoot them and be done with it.

I agree with you entirely, however I'm not going to sit quietly and say 
nothing about the injustices of this terrible system. It's wrong, very wrong 
we know it, they know it, and the dammed MP'S know it but still it continues 
exactly as it always has done.

After all the shouting in previous years this shitty government are 
attempting to lead everyone straight up the garden path by all this bullshit 
about enforcement and changing its name but essentially nothing is changing, 
its business as usual. Presumably they will continue to keep the difference 
between what they extort from the NRP and what they pay the PWC, while 
continuing to pay out millions in bonuses. How vile is that, when they 
deprive both sets of children?

The discrimination is all set to get worse as they introduce C-MESS 1 or as 
we know it CSA3

Some of us must strive to better this insane system as clearly the present 
government couldn't give a cuss about any of the injustices this agency 
carries out on a daily bases.

"JMC"  wrote in message 
news:1181845896.785767.115630@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> The point is Fletch, that there ARE fathers (and mothers) out there
> who couldn't give a shit about their offspring.  The don't care if
> they ever see them and the fact that their ex is making it difficult,
> if not downright impossible, for them to see the kids is a ready made
> excuse.
> 99% of us do everything we can to try and see our kids.  I do 1200
> miles a month to see mine.  I have no other reason to make the journey
> and it costs me a fortyune, but I get no adjustment in my CSA payments
> to allow for it.  It's another cost that I take on and lose out
> somewhere else.  I also took on almost 30,000 of family debt, which I
> am still paying off and will be for several more years to come.  I
> left a house full of furniture, clothes, electrical good, luxuries etc
> and never asked for any of it.  I had a nice gratuity from the
> military for 25 years of service - all went to my ex..  35000 as a
> payoff against my military pension, which, even after that she's still
> getting almost 1/3 of.  I've been financially ripped apart by the CSA,
> solicitors, laws on pensions, but still I fight to make every minute I
> can get with my kids worth while.
> There are a few - and I stress A FEW - NRPs out there who disappear
> off of the face of the earth and don't WANT anything to do with their
> kids - these are the people who should be suffering..  those of us who
> are suffering now are doing it because we care about our kids.  I for
> one don't have time for wallowing in self pity and banging on about
> how unjust the whole system is.  Maybe I should, maybe I should risk
> losing the contact I've fought so hard to maintain, but this will all
> be over in just 3 short years.  At that point my kids will get what
> THEY need from me WHEN they need it - I'll not be paying for my ex to
> go away on holiday 3 times a year, spend a fortune on fags and the
> next size up in clothes, etc etc..
> My youngest will leave school in 3 years..  now that is when my ex
> will suffer most - my (not