On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:37:46 +0000, Julie  wrote:

>On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:44:24 -0000, "Jill"
> wrote:
>
>>"Campaign for Fresh Air"  wrote in message 
>>news:lo1rt3p6mm9mn1r3f62irbji94rpp29rbg@4ax.com...
>>
>>>>
>>>>Battery units are birds, selected with great refinement over the past 50
>>>>years to have highly efficient productivity in the most efficient
>>>>conditions.
>>>
>>> Only someone in that vile trade could claim such bullshit.
>>
>>They are carefully selected.
>
>To be abused at the cheapest possible price.
>
>>They are efficient.
>>They are productive.
>>Its simple fact.
>
>What's that got to do with a vile, cruel trade in suffering?
>
>>Emotion is something else.
>
>Could only be said  by someone devoid of such traits.
>
>> Its not the way I have chosen to keep birds,
>
>Playing God should never be a choice for people like you. If you
>thought you could get away with it you'd be treating humans the same.
>You already have a penchant for bullying people.
>
>> but 
>>making birds live outside in most parts of the UK is not easy for them 
>>either.
>
>It is for a normal bird, maybe not for the Frankenstein breeds we see
>today bred for battery cages.
>
>You obviously don't know that much about chickens despite your
>business, or perhaps that's because you are just lying?
>
>http://www.hsus.org/farm/resources/animals/chickens/
>
>>Its a much more complex situation than you will ever understand.
>
>Nothing complex about understanding the cruel vile trade in battery
>chickens that you are so keen to support.
>
>>How are you to feed the ever increasingly demanding  and growing population 
>>cheaply and effectively.
>>Affordable eggs are not a luxury but an essential.
>
>Gosh that is a real diversionary tactic and has no place in the
>Western World.
>
>>> In reality
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2mfzuo
>>> Egg-laying hen welfare
>>> The battery cage system is an industrial farming system in which
>>> laying hens spend their short lives confined in small wire cages with
>>> several other hens. Under EU law, each hen has an allotted floor space
>>> allowance of 550cm² - less than an A4 sheet of paper. The conditions
>>> cause the hens immense psychological and physical suffering.
>>
>>Except that stressed hens do not lay and these ones out produce any free 
>>range birds.
>
>Stressed hens in battery cages have no choice. Not to be confused with
>the stress of giving the chickens a kicking.
>
>As someone who makes a living from pretending to be a decent chicken
>farmer your attitude & contempt for the birds is quite revealing.
>
>>And the environmental factors of free range birds cause immense 
>>physiological, psychological and physical and clinical suffering to birds.
>
>I get it now. So what your sating is we need to put chickens in
>battery cages within factory farms for their own good? Now why didn't
>we think of that!"
>
>>- chickens are really nasty to each other when they get a chance
>>- wild birds carry lots of diseases
>>- the climate is not friendly to them
>>- ranging makes them use up energy that is not being used for egg laying
>>- breeding for high efficiency means loss of vigour - eg feathering, 
>>immunity.
>
>Keep talking Jill you're doing yourself and your business a great
>favour!
>
>>> Preventing natural behaviour
>>> Hens have a strong biological drive to perform the survival behaviours
>>> that their ancestors evolved over thousands of years. It is essential
>>> for good welfare that hens are able to perform these natural
>>> behaviours.
>>
>>And strong selection has modified these behaviours. Not removed them but 
>>very definately modified them.
>
>I see so as an example 
>" Caged cruelty - Caged hens can suffer greatly from: 
>Damage to their feet and claws from standing on thin wire sloping
>floors. Severe restriction on movement and most normal behaviors
>leading to fragile bones and suffering. Unable to escape aggression
>from other birds. The RSPCA is calling for all cage systems to be
>banned and replaced with either free-range or barn systems. "
>
>Is good for the birds. My how we are being mislead by our consciences.
>
>>> A happy hen is a bird free to forage, take exercise, dust-bathe, take
>>> refuge on a perch whenever she feels vulnerable and build a nest in
>>> which to lay her eggs. None of these behaviours are possible in the
>>> barren battery cage.
>>
>>A happy hen is also one that is not wet, blown inside out, challenged by 
>>diseases from wild birds, bullied by other birds,
>
>A happy hen is one that doesn't suffer at the hands of terrible people
>like yourself.
>
>>And NO chicken BUILDS a nest to lay their daily egg -- that is total TOSH --  
>>it is only broody birds who MAKE a nest.
>
>So chickens make a nest then! Their natural inclination is to nest,
>like most birds given the opportunity. Just because they lay eggs
>regardless of you depriving them of nesting sites because it's more
>convenient for you is neither here nor there.
>
>>NO CHICKEN takes refuge on a perch when feeling vulnerable -- that is the 
>>biggest crap going, chickens will roost at night, birds will choose not to 
>>bother even when perches are available. They have ABSOLUTELY NOT ONE IOTA of 
>>concept of "running away" or "going somewhere when vulnerable"
>
>You're a blatant liar. Most chickens like most birds given the
>opportunity will perch!!! If you deprive them of that facility, and it
>sounds like you do then you are simply adding to the cruelty.
>
>>Day to day birds like a dark space and even in the old pure breeds, few even 
>>bother to work a hollow.
>>A bird that has had its behaviour modified by many generations of selection 
>>has few of the above in any strong traits.
>>They mooch about, desultorily dustbathe - not effectively for any parasite 
>>control, and sure as hell do neither of the others.
>
>That's why Frankenstein manipulation of species is wrong and cruel.
>Nothing to brag about Jill. No more so then breeding chickens and
>turkeys that cannot walk but provide large thighs for the shops is
>anything to brag about.
>
>>> Physical injuries
>>> Exacerbating the mental cruelties inflicted upon the caged egg-laying
>>> hen, the environment of the caged system also poses significant
>>> physical welfare concerns.
>>> Osteoporosis and fractured bones are common in caged hens because the
>>> high rate of egg production depletes the hens' calcium reserves.
>>
>>Those conditions are associated with the selection more than the housing.
>>The same birds put outside will have much more serious problems
>
>Then stop breeding deformed animals because it's more convenient for
>you factory chicken farmers..
>
>>> The wire floor causes problems for hens' feet as their claws can become
>>> twisted around the mesh.
>>
>>Free range units have slatted floors. The birds have no perches.
>>Keels become damaged.
>
>Only in the cruel free range systems which are akin to battery cage
>welfare where the chickens welfare doesn't even come in to it. They
>are purely to con the public. Yet another example of farming being
>destroyed by cruel business people who have no real interest in
>farming.
>
>>> Damaged legs and feet further reducing the
>>> hen's chances of exercise and sometimes preventing her from reaching
>>> the food and water supply.
>>
>>In which case she will stop laying, so a decent unit will sort this problem 
>>or cull preventing suffering.
>
>Interesting statement and it shows you have no interest in animal
>welfare. The rest of us would not even introduce an animal to such
>conditions in the first place.
>
>>> Because of their frustration, boredom and close proximity to each
>>> other, hens often peck their cage mates.
>>
>>Chickens do this anyway, chickens are often unpleasant to each other under 
>>any conditions.
>
>Of course they do, human prisoners are the same when forced
>confinement is the only choice.
>
>>> Pecking can result in
>>> cannibalism.
>>
>>Happens in chicks under one week old.
>
>So that's ok is it?
>
>>> In an attempt to stop the physical injuries of such
>>> anti-social behaviour, hens are often de-beaked, removing a third of
>>> the bird's beak using a red-hot blade - a case of treating the
>>> symptom, rather than treating the cause.
>>
>>Often happens to deal with the rearing problems than the latter stages of 
>>life. Young birds, barn reared to protect them from the elements,  are often 
>>the worse for this behaviour. DE-beaking is usually done at a very young 
>>age.
>
>So the statement stands.
>
>>None of this is typed in support or against the methods, simply in 
>>explanation for some of the content of your post.
>
>It shows the vile, cruel trade in reality. It also shows who you are
>in reality.
>
>>There is absolutely no simple solution to the situation. 
>
>No one forces you into your vile trade and you care little for animals
>or humanity so don't try and pull the wool over our eyes on that score
>either.
>

What's quite clear when you study Jill Bowis
www.kintaline.co.uk 
Kintaline Mill Farm, 
Benderloch, 
OBAN Argyll PA37 1QS 
Scotland
websites, of which there are over 50 (slippery or what) is that she
trades as someone purporting to care for chickens yet condemns
anything other than battery chicken farming with a vigour.

Her various websites avoid mentioning CARING for chickens and the fact
she is unable to comply with free range regulations and therefore
cannot claim she is a free range producer of either chickens or eggs.
Although she does go some way to try and divert attention from that
issue. But why would someone cut off their nose to spite their faces?

Despite the facade she is a factory farmer through and through and in
reality the welfare of the animals in her care means nothing.

Not very nice to be so dishonest Jill and with so many websites on the
go deceiving us it was only a matter of time before you tripped up.

x