MRSA in farm animals – ‘A new monster’ - coming to the UK soon?  
PRESS RELEASE

Research published today (25/6/07) by the Soil Association reveals
that a serious human-health threat already present in the Netherlands
and other European countries, could spread to the UK. [1] 

The 'superbug' methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) is
already a high-profile, persistent problem in many UK hospitals. Now a
new strain of MRSA has developed amongst intensively farmed pigs,
chickens and other livestock on the Continent. Farm-animal MRSA has
already transferred to farmers, farm-workers and their families in the
Netherlands, causing serious health impacts. 40% of Dutch pigs and 50%
of pig farmers have been found to carry farm-animal MRSA. [2]

In the Netherlands, farm-animal MRSA has been found in 20% of pork,
21% of chicken and 3% of beef on sale to the public. [3] It has not
yet been found in UK livestock or meat products, but neither the
government nor the Food Standards Agency are carrying out any surveys
of the most likely carriers, live pigs, chickens and imported meat.
[4] Replying to a Parliamentary Question on this issue, the minister
responsible, Ben Bradshaw, dismissed the Soil Association's concerns,
'…there is no current evidence that food-producing animals form a
reservoir of MRSA infection in the UK…'. [5]

The Dutch Minister for Agriculture, Dr C. P. Veerman thinks
differently, 
'It is very unlikely that 'animal-farming-related MRSA' only exists in
the Netherlands, considering the animal types where MRSA is found and
the many animal movements and comparable livestock farming methods in
other EU member states. So far, there are no hard facts about this. It
is important, for these reasons, that all Member States examine their
animals.' [3]

Dutch scientists and government officials blame this new strain of
MRSA in farm animals on the high levels of antibiotics used in
intensive livestock farming. [6] The UK government has committed
itself to reducing the amount of antibiotics used in UK farming, yet
overall levels remain high. Despite an EU-wide ban on growth-promoting
antibiotics added to animal feed, similar quantities of antibiotics
are simply being prescribed by vets for disease prevention. [7]
Additionally, the junior Minister, Ben Bradshaw MP, gave in to
lobbying by the farm-drugs industry to allow continued advertising of
prescription-only antibiotics to livestock farmers in defiance of an
EU Directive seeking to end this practice. Now these important
antibiotics are even being marketed for their growth-promoting
properties. [8]

Richard Young, Soil Association policy adviser said,
'This new type of MRSA is spreading like wildfire across Europe, and
we know it is transferring from farm animals to humans – with serious
health impacts. Concerned scientists have referred to this as 'a new
monster'. [9] Fortunately, it has not yet been found in UK livestock
or imported meat, but then neither the government nor the Food
Standards Agency are looking for it in live animals or meat. 

This is no time for official complacency, but a critical opportunity
to prevent farm-animal MRSA getting a hold in the UK - so reducing
risks to human health, costs to the NHS, already burdened by
hospital-acquired MRSA, and avoiding another potentially devastating
food-safety crisis.'

The Soil Association is calling on the government to: 
Urgently instigate a testing programme to establish the MRSA status of
UK livestock and meat on sale; 
Fully implement its claimed commitment to reducing use of veterinary
antibiotics – including banning advertising of all antibiotics to
farmers; 
Immediately prohibit the prophylactic and off-label use of all
antibiotics on farms that are defined as 'critically important' in
human medicine by the World Health Organisation; 
Screen all farm workers and vets coming into the UK from countries
where farm-animal MRSA has been found.
» Read a summary of the report [PDF, 548 KB]
» Read the full report [PDF, 1.5 MB]


Notes to Editors
1. MRSA in farm animals and meat, A new threat to human health, report
five in the series 'The use and misuse of antibiotics in UK
agriculture'. Soil Association, June 2007 Cóilín Nunan and Richard
Young Price £12 or free electronic copy from website ISBN 1 904665 21
7

2. Farm-animal MRSA was first identified in the Netherlands in July
2004. During routine screening, scientists found the bacteria on a
six-month-old baby girl admitted for surgery to a hospital in
Nijmegen. For several months the girl remained colonised by MRSA
despite repeated attempts to clear the bacteria. Tests revealed her
parents were also positive for MRSA. The family lived on a farm, and
raised pigs (Voss et al. 2005). This finding prompted further, more
extensive studies. Latest Dutch figures indicate 40% of pigs, 13% of
calves and a high proportion of chickens carry MRSA. 50% of Dutch pig
farmers also now carry MRSA. All people living on pig and cattle farms
are now considered to be at high risk of being MRSA carriers and are
isolated on admission to hospital.

Dutch patients with farm-animal MRSA have developed skin infections,
endocarditis (a heart infection) and osteomyelitis (a bone infection).
The same strain of MRSA has caused blood poisoning and other
deep-seated infections in Belgium and it has caused infections in
Denmark. In Germany, this MRSA strain has also caused pneumonia in
seven inpatients.

3. Letter from Dr C. P. Veerman to Dutch Parliament, 18 December 2006
(translation provided as an Appendix to report)

4. Although the UK imports no live pigs from the Netherlands, Denmark
or Germany where farm-animal MRSA has been confirmed, we do import
live chicks and turkey poults from several countries including the
Netherlands. Also, 60% of the pork we consume is imported. 87% of
imported bacon comes from the Netherlands or Denmark. 63% of imported
pork and 57% of imported processed pig meat comes from Denmark, the
Netherlands or Germany.

5. In December 2006, the Conservative frontbench spokesman, "Laurence
Robertson MP asked the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and
Rural Affairs, 'what assessment he has made of the presence of MRSA in
pigs in the UK and in imported pork'. The junior environment Minister,
Ben Bradshaw MP replied that the Government had set up an MRSA
sub-group 'in response to increased interest in this area' and was
testing milk for the presence of MRSA, but said it was not testing
pigs because it 'is not generally considered to be a major pathogen of
livestock species other than cattle' (Hansard 2006).

6. In human medicine, Dutch antibiotic use is the lowest in Western
Europe, at least for outpatients (Ferech et al. 2006). However, total
farm antibiotic use in 2004 was 508 tonnes of active ingredient
(exclusive of growth-promoter use and the use of antibiotics to
control the disease coccidiosis) (FIDIN 2006). This compares with 446
tonnes in UK agriculture in 2005. While the Netherlands has over twice
as many pigs as the UK, it has little more than half the number of
chickens, around a quarter of the number of cattle and nearly 30 times
fewer sheep (MARAN 2005, Goodyear 2006). Dutch veterinary antibiotic
sales statistics show that consumption of antibiotics has been on an
upward trend since 1998, and increased by 29% between 2003 and 2005.

7. Veterinary use of antibiotics used for therapy or disease
prevention in UK food animals has increased by 3.5%, from 405 tonnes
in 1999 to 419 tonnes in 2005, despite a fall in overall livestock
numbers. In the UK, over 90% of veterinary antibiotics are used in pig
or poultry production (Goodyear 2006).

8. EU Directive 2004/28/EC, required member states to ban the
advertising of prescription-only medicines to 'members of the general
public', bringing veterinary medicines into line with human medicines.
Advertising to farmers could no longer be permitted and the Directive
only made exceptions to the prohibition for veterinary surgeons and
pharmacists. The National Office of Animal Health (NOAH), the body
which represents the pharmaceutical industry, strongly lobbied against
this and succeeded in getting these advertising restrictions dropped.

9. British scientist, Dr Andrew Waller called MRSA in farm animals and
pets 'the creation of a new monster'. (Waller 2005)

References

Ferech M., Coenen S., Malhotra-Kumar S., Dvorakova K., Hendrickx E.,
Suetens C. and Goossens H. on behalf of the ESAC Project Group, 2006.
European Surveillance of Antimicrobial Consumption (ESAC): outpatient
antibiotic use in Europe, Journal of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy, 58:
401-407

FIDIN, 2006. Antibioticarapportage 2005, opgested door de FIDIN
Werkgroep Antibioticumbeleid, August 2006, Den Haag

Goodyear K., 2006. Sales of antimicrobial products authorized for use
as veterinary medicines, antiprotozoals, antifungals, growth promoters
and coccidiostats, in the UK 2005, Veterinary Medicines Directorate

Hansard, 2006. Pig industry, written answers to questions 18 December
2006,
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmhansrd/cm061218/text/61218w0002.htm

MARAN, 2005. MARAN 2004 – Monitoring of antimicrobial resistance and
antibiotic usage in animals in the Netherlands in 2004

Voss A., Loeffen F., Bakker J., Klaassen C. and Wulf M., 2005.
Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus in pig farming, Emerging
Infectious Diseases, 11: 1965-1966

Waller A., 2005. The creation of a new monster: MRSA and
MRSI--important emerging veterinary and zoonotic diseases, Veterinary
Journal, 169: 315-316

Document information:

Title: MRSA in farm animals – ‘A new monster’ - coming to the UK soon?

Version: 1 

Last updated: 25/06/2007

Categories:
Animal health, Antibiotics, Health, Press Releases 2007 

Address of this document:
http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/saweb.nsf/librarytitles/NT00024E06.html

© Soil Association 2000-2008

Hi

Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
doves.
We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
and it's not a good long-term solution.

How can we stop it?


Ship
Shiperton Henethe

P.S. My granny used to have 60 similar birds, and we think sparrow
hawk at the entire lot!

P.S. Has anyone tried feeding them something weird (like kippers??) to
make their flesh taste horrible?

ship wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
> doves.
> We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
> and it's not a good long-term solution.
> 
> How can we stop it?

Keep Peregrines instead.

Cheers,

Phil

On Jun 2, 5:42 pm, "Phil Wilson"  wrote:
> ship wrote:
> > Hi
>
> > Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
> > doves.
> > We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
> > and it's not a good long-term solution.
>
> > How can we stop it?
>
> Keep Peregrines instead.

Are you serious?
Would keeping a peregrine scare off other peregrines?

What about sticking a stuffed peregrine on the roof of the house?
Or having a loud speaker broadcasting peregrine calls at rather large
volume?


Ship

ship wrote:
> P.S. Has anyone tried feeding them something weird (like kippers??) to
> make their flesh taste horrible?

1) You might get Ospreys eating them instead (they're fish eaters)! ;-)

2) Birds aren't generally considered not to have much sense of taste, so may 
not be effective.

Breed sacrificial rabbits as well/instead?

Mike.
-- 
If reply address is invalid, remove spurious "@" and substitute "plus"
where needed.

ship wrote:
> On Jun 2, 5:42 pm, "Phil Wilson"  wrote:
>> ship wrote:
>>> Hi
>>
>>> Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
>>> doves.
>>> We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much 
>>> room
>>> and it's not a good long-term solution.
>>
>>> How can we stop it?
>>
>> Keep Peregrines instead.
>
> Are you serious?

Half-so. This is an insoluble problem. If you let doves fly free you 
are ringing the dinner bell for any wild predator capable of taking 
them.

The following doesn't refer to you at all, but is just my general take 
on things.

As it happens I prefer Peregrines to domestic pigeons. Short of a 
practical solution to prevent any wild raptor taking a bird (netting 
etc) you just have to accept that in our society there's a balance to 
be struck between some people's desire to preserve wild Peregrines and 
Sparrowhawks, and others equally legitimate (though more 
'interventionist') desire to keep ornamental domestic birds. All I can 
say is that my solution (ignore any losses) is less interventionist 
than some others' (persecute wild raptors).  Anyway Peregrines are 
mostly confined to less-populated areas (that the opposite impression 
is sometimes got is because those that aren't become newsworthy). The 
numbers overall lost to Peregrines of pigeons from lofts will 
therefore be relatively tiny, compared with the pigeon population as a 
whole (most Peregrines don't feed exclusively on domestic birds). I 
know this is not likely to make you feel any better, but it doesn't 
make me feel a lot worse.

What I do feel is wrong is that human gambling (which, though pigeon 
fanciers claim to be 'fond' of their birds, could be carried out in 
any particular form) should cause our native wildlife to disappear. 
This approach seems lacking in that balance that I was talking about.

But, as I say, it's often an impasse between two mutually exclusive 
points of view.

The serious half of my half-joke was that I can't understand why 
people like 'keeping' birds, anyway. If you don't race them for momey, 
sorry...sport,, what do you get from them, that you couldn't get from 
a wild bird? I just don't understand the need to 'possess' living 
things, unless you're going to kill them and eat them afterward. I 
can't understand the whole 'pets' thing anyway. It's one thing to have 
animals about, quite another to want to live with them, talk to them 
and provide them with 'personalities they neither have nor could have. 
Some people talk to dogs as if they were human.

Does that make things any clearer?

Cheers,

Phil

"ship"  wrote in message 
news:9e89e947-7f90-4033-a9fc-0bf1e934f6b1@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 2, 5:42 pm, "Phil Wilson"  wrote:
> ship wrote:
> > Hi
>
> > Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
> > doves.
> > We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
> > and it's not a good long-term solution.
>
> > How can we stop it?
>
> Keep Peregrines instead.

Are you serious?
Would keeping a peregrine scare off other peregrines?

What about sticking a stuffed peregrine on the roof of the house?
Or having a loud speaker broadcasting peregrine calls at rather large
volume?


That would probably scare away any wild pigeons, perhaps making the falcons 
more likely to prey on the domesticated doves.

On Jun 2, 7:51 pm, "BAC"  wrote:
> "ship"  wrote in message
>
> news:9e89e947-7f90-4033-a9fc-0bf1e934f6b1@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 2, 5:42 pm, "Phil Wilson"  wrote:
>
> > ship wrote:
> > > Hi
>
> > > Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
> > > doves.
> > > We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
> > > and it's not a good long-term solution.
>
> > > How can we stop it?
>
> > Keep Peregrines instead.
>
> Are you serious?
> Would keeping a peregrine scare off other peregrines?
>
> What about sticking a stuffed peregrine on the roof of the house?
> Or having a loud speaker broadcasting peregrine calls at rather large
> volume?
>
> That would probably scare away any wild pigeons, perhaps making the falcons
> more likely to prey on the domesticated doves.

I'm not completely convinced by any of the arguments here.
One thing I should explain is that the doves live in a courtyard
and are quite tame. Therein could lie their one chance. The peregrines
are extremely shy - albeit determined. Hence something like loud
speakers
might well scare off the peregrines. Afterall the peregrine nest is a
few miles away
and there would be plenty other food nearer them.

Also have you ever tried eating chickens that have been fed kippers?
They and their eggs taste disgusting - so I reckon it's worth a shot.
A long-shot I agree. But all these doves are very distinctive - and if
the peregrine came to associate white doves with rather a nasty
breakfast you never know - it might encourage it to better tasting
food.

As to the ideas that peregrines have poor taste - does anyone here
KNOW this for a fact? I do know that they die if they eat just rabbit.
Perhaps someone from alt.falconry could comment...

Ship

Phil Wilson wrote:
> The serious half of my half-joke was that I can't understand why
> people like 'keeping' birds, anyway. If you don't race them for momey,
> sorry...sport,, what do you get from them, that you couldn't get from
> a wild bird? I just don't understand the need to 'possess' living
> things, unless you're going to kill them and eat them afterward. I
> can't understand the whole 'pets' thing anyway. It's one thing to have
> animals about, quite another to want to live with them, talk to them
> and provide them with 'personalities they neither have nor could have.
> Some people talk to dogs as if they were human.

I remember being quite fond of our family budgie, cantankerous sod though it 
was. It certainly couldn't be "petted", though it was prepared to be social 
on its own terms.

And I gather that it is well established that pettable creatures are good 
for people especially if solitary or handicapped in some way. (Sorry, that's 
the people not the pets!) So dogs are taken into hospitals. I know people 
that keep decorative fish, but suspect that they would be equally happy with 
an HD animation on their TV...

Talking to animals is cathartic, too. I find it quite natural to chat to 
"my" Robin while dishing out its mealworms. Sad?

Mike.
-- 
If reply address is invalid, remove spurious "@" and substitute "plus"
where needed.

"ship"  wrote in message 
news:de4065be-3478-4989-ba2e-677a236a0688@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> Hi
>
> Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
> doves.
> We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
> and it's not a good long-term solution.
>
> How can we stop it?

I don't think you can, unless your brother builds an aviary for them and 
keeps them in there for a while.  Maybe if he did it for a few months the 
peregrines might stop coming for an easy meal and he could try letting them 
out again.
It's a very similar scenario when a fox discovers free range chickens.  They 
just come back and back and back until they are all gone, and why wouldn't 
they?   Beats bothering their ar** to hunt anyday.  It's about easy 
targets..
I don't have quite as much of a problem here about fox/chickens as I can 
legally kill foxes should I choose to, but peregrines/doves is an entirely 
different thing because of it being illegal to kill peregrines.

I hope your brother finds a solution.

Tina

"Mike Coon" <Mike@@mjcoon.+.com> wrote in message 
news:AaCdnXalVcCL5dnVnZ2dnUVZ8u-dnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> Phil Wilson wrote:
>> The serious half of my half-joke was that I can't understand why
>> people like 'keeping' birds, anyway. If you don't race them for momey,

<snip>

I know people
> that keep decorative fish, but suspect that they would be equally happy 
> with an HD animation on their TV...
>
> Talking to animals is cathartic, too. I find it quite natural to chat to 
> "my" Robin while dishing out its mealworms. Sad?
>
> Mike.
> -- 
> If reply address is invalid, remove spurious "@" and substitute "plus"
> where needed.

Talking of decorative fish, one of my friends had a large pond with 
beautiful Koi carp.  Some were valued at over £200.  He lost the lot when an 
otter (or two) feasted on them all one night.  I've heard of herons 
attacking garden ponds but this was a 'first' for me.

Cheers,

Dave.

--
"It is very strange, and very melancholy, that the paucity of human
pleasures should persuade us ever to call hunting one of them."
Samuel Johnson.
http://www.daviv.com  Webcam & videos of badgers and foxes on our patio
and bluetits in their nestbox.

"ship"  wrote in message 
news:8175eee6-9ae3-4af9-b1d8-d379e8101fae@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 2, 7:51 pm, "BAC"  wrote:
> "ship"  wrote in message
>
> news:9e89e947-7f90-4033-a9fc-0bf1e934f6b1@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 2, 5:42 pm, "Phil Wilson"  wrote:
>
<snip>

>Also have you ever tried eating chickens that have been fed kippers?
>They and their eggs taste disgusting - so I reckon it's worth a shot.
>A long-shot I agree. But all these doves are very distinctive - and if
>the peregrine came to associate white doves with rather a nasty
>breakfast you never know - it might encourage it to better tasting
>food.

>As to the ideas that peregrines have poor taste - does anyone here
>KNOW this for a fact? I do know that they die if they eat just rabbit.
>Perhaps someone from alt.falconry could comment...


I don't know whether peregrines have a poor sense of taste, but I do know 
they do not feed exclusively on pigeons, nor even on birds. They have even 
been reported to have scavenged dead fish carcasses, so, if they're hungry 
enough, I doubt whether a taste of kipper would put them off.

Nevertheless, I understand the UK Raptor Working Group was working on 
evaluating means of deterrence of peregrines and sparrowhawks in the 
vicinity of pigeon lofts, but I don't know whether the 'kipper' method has 
been under investigation.

There was consideration of the effectiveness of various means of 'loft' 
deterrents published in

http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/PIGEONS_RAPTORS_REPORT.pdf

(an interesting read in its own right)

but I regret I don't believe you will find the 'results' very encouraging.

Mike Coon wrote:
> Phil Wilson wrote:
>> The serious half of my half-joke was that I can't understand why
>> people like 'keeping' birds, anyway. If you don't race them for
>> momey, sorry...sport,, what do you get from them, that you couldn't
>> get from a wild bird? I just don't understand the need to 'possess'
>> living things, unless you're going to kill them and eat them
>> afterward. I can't understand the whole 'pets' thing anyway. It's
>> one thing to have animals about, quite another to want to live with
>> them, talk to them and provide them with 'personalities they 
>> neither
>> have nor could have. Some people talk to dogs as if they were 
>> human.
>
> I remember being quite fond of our family budgie, cantankerous sod
> though it was. It certainly couldn't be "petted", though it was
> prepared to be social on its own terms.
>
> And I gather that it is well established that pettable creatures are
> good for people especially if solitary or handicapped in some way.
> (Sorry, that's the people not the pets!) So dogs are taken into
> hospitals. I know people that keep decorative fish, but suspect that
> they would be equally happy with an HD animation on their TV...

How do people (of a social species) become 'solitary'? What was once a 
bohemian choice available to the (generally wealthy and or religious) 
few (and by no means universally regarded as a desirable objective) is 
now the norm, but usually as 'loneliness', not 'solitude'..

> Talking to animals is cathartic, too. I find it quite natural to 
> chat
> to "my" Robin while dishing out its mealworms. Sad?

Not at all, as long as you don't start imagining it's talking back to 
you by way of conversation. You know the saying: 'If a lion could 
talk, it wouldn't be a lion.'

Cheers,

Phil

Phil Wilson wrote:
> Not at all, as long as you don't start imagining it's talking back 
> to
> you by way of conversation. You know the saying: 'If a lion could
> talk, it wouldn't be a lion.'

Hmm, this seems to have been Wittgenstein's observation originally, 
being 'If a lion could talk, we could not understand him'. Which is 
debatable. My version which maybe should have read 'it would no longer 
be a lion.' I thnk derives from a biologist in the 1980s and strikes 
me as unquestionably true.

Cheers,

Phil

Phil Wilson wrote:
> Not at all, as long as you don't start imagining it's talking back to
> you by way of conversation. You know the saying: 'If a lion could
> talk, it wouldn't be a lion.'

I'm still sure that the Robin which tapped on my window last year right 
where I was sitting was attracting my attention to refresh its mealworm 
supply. Not a complex communication, but directed nevertheless.

Mike.
-- 
If reply address is invalid, remove spurious "@" and substitute "plus"
where needed.

Mike Coon wrote:
> Phil Wilson wrote:
>> Not at all, as long as you don't start imagining it's talking back 
>> to
>> you by way of conversation. You know the saying: 'If a lion could
>> talk, it wouldn't be a lion.'
>
> I'm still sure that the Robin which tapped on my window last year
> right where I was sitting was attracting my attention to refresh its
> mealworm supply. Not a complex communication, but directed
> nevertheless.

Oh yes. In semiotics, every movement of the body or sound of the voice 
is communication. Talking is more. This is what distinguishes our 
lives from those of animals, for whom there presumably can be no 
'might be', only 'what is'.

Cheers,

Phil

"ship"  wrote in message 
news:8175eee6-9ae3-4af9-b1d8-d379e8101fae@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 2, 7:51 pm, "BAC"  wrote:
> "ship"  wrote in message
>
> news:9e89e947-7f90-4033-a9fc-0bf1e934f6b1@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 2, 5:42 pm, "Phil Wilson"  wrote:
>
> > ship wrote:
> > > Hi
>
> > > Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
> > > doves.
> > > We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
> > > and it's not a good long-term solution.
>
> > > How can we stop it?
>
> > Keep Peregrines instead.
>
> Are you serious?
> Would keeping a peregrine scare off other peregrines?
>
> What about sticking a stuffed peregrine on the roof of the house?
> Or having a loud speaker broadcasting peregrine calls at rather large
> volume?
>
> That would probably scare away any wild pigeons, perhaps making the 
> falcons
> more likely to prey on the domesticated doves.

I'm not completely convinced by any of the arguments here.
One thing I should explain is that the doves live in a courtyard
and are quite tame. Therein could lie their one chance. The peregrines
are extremely shy - albeit determined. Hence something like loud
speakers
might well scare off the peregrines. Afterall the peregrine nest is a
few miles away
and there would be plenty other food nearer them.

Also have you ever tried eating chickens that have been fed kippers?
They and their eggs taste disgusting - so I reckon it's worth a shot.
A long-shot I agree. But all these doves are very distinctive - and if
the peregrine came to associate white doves with rather a nasty
breakfast you never know - it might encourage it to better tasting
food.

As to the ideas that peregrines have poor taste - does anyone here
KNOW this for a fact? I do know that they die if they eat just rabbit.
Perhaps someone from alt.falconry could comment...

Ship

I have a feeling that peregrines get to know where an easy pigeon meal can 
be had. There was a reliable old peregrine that could often be seen on the 
old crane by the SECC in Glasgow, plucking its latest hapless doo - snatched 
I think from the Central Station. As for flavour, well the diet of Glesgsae 
Doos contains a lot of fish suppers.

Duncan

On Jun 2, 5:10 pm, ship  wrote:
> Hi
>
> Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
> doves.
> We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
> and it's not a good long-term solution.
>
> How can we stop it?
>
> Ship
> Shiperton Henethe
>
> P.S. My granny used to have 60 similar birds, and we think sparrow
> hawk at the entire lot!

Try a large plastic owl. This past winter small birds got used to
resting in our small spruce and a small hawk would wait for them and
caught two of them before I put a large plastic owl next to the tree.
The little birds and the hawk stay away. I miss the little birds but
it is better this way.

In Colorado, (believe) seven people were arrested for killing hawks
that were killing their pigeons. They used traps, guns, and whatever.
One of the pigeon lovers was interviewed after his arrest and said
that he would do it again if he had to. Tough call.

On 16 Jun, 13:05, PigeonRescue  wrote:
> On Jun 2, 5:10 pm, ship  wrote:
>
> > Hi
>
> > Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
> > doves.
> > We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
> > and it's not a good long-term solution.
>
> > How can we stop it?
>
> > Ship
> > Shiperton Henethe
>
> > P.S. My granny used to have 60 similar birds, and we think sparrow
> > hawk at the entire lot!
>
> Try a large plastic owl. This past winter small birds got used to
> resting in our small spruce and a small hawk would wait for them and
> caught two of them before I put a large plastic owl next to the tree.
> The little birds and the hawk stay away. I miss the little birds but
> it is better this way.
>
> In Colorado, (believe) seven people were arrested for killing hawks
> that were killing their pigeons. They used traps, guns, and whatever.
> One of the pigeon lovers was interviewed after his arrest and said
> that he would do it again if he had to. Tough call.

Hmm, interesting discussion.  I know that when we were losing eggs to
magpies, we took to blowing out a couple of those that survived,
replacing the contents with English mustard and replacing them in the
nest boxes.  It certainly deterred them.

Unfortuately, we are no longer able to keep hens due to the
intervention of our neighbourhood goshawk.  About the only thing I can
think might deter said visitor is running a flock of geese with a
territorial gander with the hens but we haven't tried this yet.
Failing that, I think an old breed turkey stag but I'm afraid I could
be prosecuted if the two got into a fight - I'm pretty sure, based on
past experience, that the hawk would come off second best.

Might it be worth leaving some bait for the peregrines - maybe a dead
dove or a pigeon from the market liberally smeared with mustard and
tabasco?  Just a suggestion - though you might be prosecuted under the
terrorism act for WMD possession and attempted bioterrorism...

PigeonRescue wrote:
> In Colorado, (believe) seven people were arrested for killing hawks
> that were killing their pigeons. They used traps, guns, and 
> whatever.
> One of the pigeon lovers was interviewed after his arrest and said
> that he would do it again if he had to. Tough call.

Not a tough call at all, at least in the UK. KIlling Peregrines is 
breaking the law. Get the law changed, or leave hawks alone is the 
right call, at the moment. Or suffer any legal consequences.

Cheers,

Phil

"Gwyddno"  wrote in message
news:477b465a-bbce-4da4-a97d-a7c089c5d8dd@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On 16 Jun, 13:05, PigeonRescue  wrote:
>> On Jun 2, 5:10 pm, ship  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi
>>
>> > Yikes - Peregrines are eating all my brothers white (fantailed?)
>> > doves.
>> > We could shut them indoors for a few days, but there isnt much room
>> > and it's not a good long-term solution.
>>
>> > How can we stop it?
>>
>> > Ship
>> > Shiperton Henethe
>>
>> > P.S. My granny used to have 60 similar birds, and we think sparrow
>> > hawk at the entire lot!
>>
>> Try a large plastic owl. This past winter small birds got used to
>> resting in our small spruce and a small hawk would wait for them and
>> caught two of them before I put a large plastic owl next to the tree.
>> The little birds and the hawk stay away. I miss the little birds but
>> it is better this way.
>>
>> In Colorado, (believe) seven people were arrested for killing hawks
>> that were killing their pigeons. They used traps, guns, and whatever.
>> One of the pigeon lovers was interviewed after his arrest and said
>> that he would do it again if he had to. Tough call.
>
> Hmm, interesting discussion.  I know that when we were losing eggs to
> magpies, we took to blowing out a couple of those that survived,
> replacing the contents with English mustard and replacing them in the
> nest boxes.  It certainly deterred them.
>
> Unfortuately, we are no longer able to keep hens due to the
> intervention of our neighbourhood goshawk.  About the only thing I can
> think might deter said visitor is running a flock of geese with a
> territorial gander with the hens but we haven't tried this yet.
> Failing that, I think an old breed turkey stag but I'm afraid I could
> be prosecuted if the two got into a fight - I'm pretty sure, based on
> past experience, that the hawk would come off second best.
>
> Might it be worth leaving some bait for the peregrines - maybe a dead
> dove or a pigeon from the market liberally smeared with mustard and
> tabasco?  Just a suggestion - though you might be prosecuted under the
> terrorism act for WMD possession and attempted bioterrorism...

Isn't tabasco made from chillies? Birds lack the nociceptor that detects the
heat. That is why mammals (except humans!) avoid eating chillies, but birds
eat them. Red canaries used to be fed cayenne pepper to improve their 
colour.
A peregrine probably wouldn't be deterred by tabasco.

Can a peregrine be trapped and rehomed, or is that illegal?

Geopelia