Petition by Angus Macmillan calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge
the Scottish Government to amend the National Parks (Scotland) Act
2000 to remove local authority powers from national park authorities
and establish them solely as advisory bodies and to remove such parts
of the act to ensure that residents within the park boundaries have
the same level of democracy as elsewhere in the country.


http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID=234




Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

In article , 
amacmil304@aol.com writes
>Petition by Angus Macmillan calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge
>the Scottish Government to amend the National Parks (Scotland) Act
>2000 to remove local authority powers from national park authorities
>and establish them solely as advisory bodies and to remove such parts
>of the act to ensure that residents within the park boundaries have
>the same level of democracy as elsewhere in the country.
>
>
>http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID=234
>
>
LOL!!

The weakness of your position is, of course, that as a resident within 
the National Park you are perfectly entitled to stand for election to 
the Board where you could exert some direct influence. But you've never 
done that, have you?

BTW, I think Ms Hudleston exhibited great patience :-)

-- 
Malcolm

On 1 Jun, 12:09, Malcolm  wrote:
> In article ,
> amacmil...@aol.com writes>Petition by Angus Macmillan calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge
> >the Scottish Government to amend the National Parks (Scotland) Act
> >2000 to remove local authority powers from national park authorities
> >and establish them solely as advisory bodies and to remove such parts
> >of the act to ensure that residents within the park boundaries have
> >the same level of democracy as elsewhere in the country.
>
> >http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID...
>
> LOL!!
>
> The weakness of your position is, of course, that as a resident within
> the National Park you are perfectly entitled to stand for election to
> the Board where you could exert some direct influence. But you've never
> done that, have you?
>
> BTW, I think Ms Hudleston exhibited great patience :-)
>
> --
> Malcolm

So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.

1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks, and
not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and perpetuate
this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.

2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex dwellings
for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in Snowdonia than
Scotland - you seem to have different planning policy there. Again its
sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained as a sheep ranched playground
for british bastards 1-2-3. Many empty derelicts, eco-conservation
permaculture designs could be enacted quite easily. Will you people
have either respect for this aewareness or the will to enact it? Of
course not. Why? Because you're a bunch of total and complete fuking
wankers who are permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a
police state. You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak
scum...in wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to
the exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic
Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.

PISS OFF

This might help clarrify all of your thoughts.

The Troll Hunters, NetNannies, NetKKKops and men with a mission aught
to be congratulated on their unrivaled success. The Trolls now own nearly
all of the uk.local newsgroups but sometimes have to share them with that
well know menagerie, the tripple seven knuckle draggers.

Not only did those wonderful plonkers with "milk monitor" mentality
report any and every "abuse" they boasted in the groups about it.
Where are they now? Some joined the Trolling Fraternity others
just disappeared whilst others joined other ng's (to protect them!).
Throwing down the gauntlet was not a good idea!!!! 

Caruthers Carstairs-MacKracken.

Lord High Troll.

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:09:23 +0100, Malcolm
 wrote:

>
>In article , 
>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>Petition by Angus Macmillan calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge
>>the Scottish Government to amend the National Parks (Scotland) Act
>>2000 to remove local authority powers from national park authorities
>>and establish them solely as advisory bodies and to remove such parts
>>of the act to ensure that residents within the park boundaries have
>>the same level of democracy as elsewhere in the country.
>>
>>
>>http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID=234
>>
>>
>LOL!!
>
>The weakness of your position is, of course, that as a resident within 
>the National Park you are perfectly entitled to stand for election to 
>the Board where you could exert some direct influence. But you've never 
>done that, have you?

Wrong.  Those elected  to a quango dominated by central government
contributes to the lack of local democracy

>
>BTW, I think Ms Hudleston exhibited great patience :-)

If she or anyone else had answered the question, "why are residents in
national parks not entitled to the same level of local democracy as
elsewhere in the country?" she and others would not have needed
"patience".


Undemocratic National Parks

In the year 2000, three years after devolution in Scotland, the
Scottish Parliament introduced the National Parks (Scotland) Act 2000
which discriminated against those residing in the Loch Lomond,
Trossachs and Cairngorm areas by removing a substantial amount of
power from the elected local authorities and placing it in the hands
of National Park Authorities (NPAs) which are non-departmental public
bodies (NDPBs) responsible to central government.   

This action brought about the anomaly that those residing within
national park boundaries do not enjoy the same level of local
democracy as elsewhere in the country, as the 25 NPA board members
dominated by central government appointees and board member electees,
"must work together with the purpose, as set out in the Act [section 9
(1)], of ensuring that the National Park aims are collectively
achieved in relation to the National Park in a coordinated way".

The political structure of NPA Boards is:

(a)	10 central government appointees.
 
(b)	10 further central government appointees nominated by local
councils that have a ward or part of a ward within the park
boundaries.  These are generally, but not necessarily, local
councilors who have been elected on mainstream issues but who are
required to represent their electorate differently, depending whether
or not their voters reside within national park boundaries. They are
also entitled to make decisions that affect constituencies they do not
represent.

(c)	5 board member electees who are solely concerned with national
park issues.  This is passed off as "democracy" but there is a world
of a difference between electing local councilors on the wide
political front and board member "electees" of quangos with a
single-issue remit.

The best way to illustrate the lack of local democracy within national
parks is to give an example of a hypothetical planning application in
the Argyll and Bute area of the Loch Lomond and the Trossachs National
Park. The following planning committee members would decide the
outcome this "planning application":

·	2 unelected central government appointees.
·	1 West Dunbartonshire Councillor appointee
·	2 Stirling Councillors appointees
·	4 NPA board member electees from outwith Argyll and Bute
·	1 NPA board member electee from within Argyll and Bute

No politically elected local government representatives from Argyle &
Bute Council would be involved and nine out of the ten board members
would not be from the Argyle & Bute area.  

This is only one example of how NPA Board Members from all over the
country are making decisions on a wide range of issues that affect
ordinary people who reside within national parks.

The National Parks (Scotland) Act 2000 is an act of discrimination
against a minority of the population based on where they reside.


Angus Macmillan
April 2008.



Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

In article , 
amacmil304@aol.com writes
>On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:09:23 +0100, Malcolm
> wrote:
>
>>
>>In article ,
>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>Petition by Angus Macmillan calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge
>>>the Scottish Government to amend the National Parks (Scotland) Act
>>>2000 to remove local authority powers from national park authorities
>>>and establish them solely as advisory bodies and to remove such parts
>>>of the act to ensure that residents within the park boundaries have
>>>the same level of democracy as elsewhere in the country.
>>>
>>>
>>>http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID=234
>>>
>>>
>>LOL!!
>>
>>The weakness of your position is, of course, that as a resident within
>>the National Park you are perfectly entitled to stand for election to
>>the Board where you could exert some direct influence. But you've never
>>done that, have you?
>
>Wrong.  Those elected  to a quango dominated by central government
>contributes to the lack of local democracy
>
Wrong. Those elected to the National Park Board are immediately in a 
position of influence. The fact that you don't appear to think that you, 
personally, could exert such influence is your problem, no-one else's.

>>
>>BTW, I think Ms Hudleston exhibited great patience :-)
>
>If she or anyone else had answered the question, "why are residents in
>national parks not entitled to the same level of local democracy as
>elsewhere in the country?" she and others would not have needed
>"patience".
>
>
snip the sort of repetition that got you absolutely nowhere, yet you 
don't seem able to understand why.

-- 
Malcolm

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 19:16:35 +0100, Malcolm
 wrote:

>
>In article , 
>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:09:23 +0100, Malcolm
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>In article ,
>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>Petition by Angus Macmillan calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge
>>>>the Scottish Government to amend the National Parks (Scotland) Act
>>>>2000 to remove local authority powers from national park authorities
>>>>and establish them solely as advisory bodies and to remove such parts
>>>>of the act to ensure that residents within the park boundaries have
>>>>the same level of democracy as elsewhere in the country.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID=234
>>>>
>>>>
>>>LOL!!
>>>
>>>The weakness of your position is, of course, that as a resident within
>>>the National Park you are perfectly entitled to stand for election to
>>>the Board where you could exert some direct influence. But you've never
>>>done that, have you?
>>
>>Wrong.  Those elected  to a quango dominated by central government
>>contributes to the lack of local democracy
>>
>Wrong. Those elected to the National Park Board are immediately in a 
>position of influence. The fact that you don't appear to think that you, 
>personally, could exert such influence is your problem, no-one else's.
>


Absolute nonsense!

The 25 NPA board members dominated by central government appointees
and board member electees, "must work together with the purpose, as
set out in the Act [section 9 (1)], of ensuring that the National Park
aims are collectively achieved in relation to the National Park in a
coordinated way".  That's not the same level of local democracy as
elsewhere in the country.

Perhaps so-called conservationists like yourself the prefer
dictatorship disguised as democracy - just as the Nazis did in the
1930/40s.   


>>>
>>>BTW, I think Ms Hudleston exhibited great patience :-)
>>
>>If she or anyone else had answered the question, "why are residents in
>>national parks not entitled to the same level of local democracy as
>>elsewhere in the country?" she and others would not have needed
>>"patience".
>>
>>
>snip the sort of repetition that got you absolutely nowhere, yet you 
>don't seem able to understand why.

Would you care to answer the question?

Why are residents in national parks not entitled to the same level of
local democracy as elsewhere in the country?

If you can, perhaps you could let Mike Russell MSP know.  He couldn't
even answer it after Annabelle Goldie MSP asked him on my behalf.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

In article , 
amacmil304@aol.com writes
>On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 19:16:35 +0100, Malcolm
> wrote:
>
>>
>>In article ,
>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:09:23 +0100, Malcolm
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>In article ,
>>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>>Petition by Angus Macmillan calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge
>>>>>the Scottish Government to amend the National Parks (Scotland) Act
>>>>>2000 to remove local authority powers from national park authorities
>>>>>and establish them solely as advisory bodies and to remove such parts
>>>>>of the act to ensure that residents within the park boundaries have
>>>>>the same level of democracy as elsewhere in the country.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID=234
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>LOL!!
>>>>
>>>>The weakness of your position is, of course, that as a resident within
>>>>the National Park you are perfectly entitled to stand for election to
>>>>the Board where you could exert some direct influence. But you've never
>>>>done that, have you?
>>>
>>>Wrong.  Those elected  to a quango dominated by central government
>>>contributes to the lack of local democracy
>>>
>>Wrong. Those elected to the National Park Board are immediately in a
>>position of influence. The fact that you don't appear to think that you,
>>personally, could exert such influence is your problem, no-one else's.
>>
>
>
>Absolute nonsense!
>
No, Angus, it isn't. You obviously have no experience to draw on. Why 
don't you contact the existing elected board members and see what they 
think?

>The 25 NPA board members dominated by central government appointees
>and board member electees, "must work together with the purpose, as
>set out in the Act [section 9 (1)], of ensuring that the National Park
>aims are collectively achieved in relation to the National Park in a
>coordinated way".  That's not the same level of local democracy as
>elsewhere in the country.
>
You seem to think that there is just the one level of local democracy 
throughout the rest of the country. Where did you get that idea from? 
You need to get out more.

>Perhaps so-called conservationists like yourself the prefer
>dictatorship disguised as democracy - just as the Nazis did in the
>1930/40s.
>
Oh dear.  Your obsession with the Nazis is getting stronger and stronger 
:-(


>
>>>>
>>>>BTW, I think Ms Hudleston exhibited great patience :-)
>>>
>>>If she or anyone else had answered the question, "why are residents in
>>>national parks not entitled to the same level of local democracy as
>>>elsewhere in the country?" she and others would not have needed
>>>"patience".
>>>
>>>
>>snip the sort of repetition that got you absolutely nowhere, yet you
>>don't seem able to understand why.
>
>Would you care to answer the question?
>
>Why are residents in national parks not entitled to the same level of
>local democracy as elsewhere in the country?
>
See above about your lack of understanding of local democracy elsewhere 
in the country.

>If you can, perhaps you could let Mike Russell MSP know.  He couldn't
>even answer it after Annabelle Goldie MSP asked him on my behalf.
>
And were you satisfied with Annabelle Goldie's answer to your question?

-- 
Malcolm

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 21:26:31 +0100, Malcolm
 wrote:

>
>In article , 
>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 19:16:35 +0100, Malcolm
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>In article ,
>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:09:23 +0100, Malcolm
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In article ,
>>>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>>>Petition by Angus Macmillan calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge
>>>>>>the Scottish Government to amend the National Parks (Scotland) Act
>>>>>>2000 to remove local authority powers from national park authorities
>>>>>>and establish them solely as advisory bodies and to remove such parts
>>>>>>of the act to ensure that residents within the park boundaries have
>>>>>>the same level of democracy as elsewhere in the country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID=234
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>LOL!!
>>>>>
>>>>>The weakness of your position is, of course, that as a resident within
>>>>>the National Park you are perfectly entitled to stand for election to
>>>>>the Board where you could exert some direct influence. But you've never
>>>>>done that, have you?
>>>>
>>>>Wrong.  Those elected  to a quango dominated by central government
>>>>contributes to the lack of local democracy
>>>>
>>>Wrong. Those elected to the National Park Board are immediately in a
>>>position of influence. The fact that you don't appear to think that you,
>>>personally, could exert such influence is your problem, no-one else's.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Absolute nonsense!
>>
>No, Angus, it isn't. You obviously have no experience to draw on. Why 
>don't you contact the existing elected board members and see what they 
>think?

I have but naturally they support what pays them £186 a meeting.

>
>>The 25 NPA board members dominated by central government appointees
>>and board member electees, "must work together with the purpose, as
>>set out in the Act [section 9 (1)], of ensuring that the National Park
>>aims are collectively achieved in relation to the National Park in a
>>coordinated way".  That's not the same level of local democracy as
>>elsewhere in the country.
>>
>You seem to think that there is just the one level of local democracy 
>throughout the rest of the country. Where did you get that idea from? 
>You need to get out more.

Where else has local authority powers been handed to a single issue
quango?

>
>>Perhaps so-called conservationists like yourself the prefer
>>dictatorship disguised as democracy - just as the Nazis did in the
>>1930/40s.
>>
>Oh dear.  Your obsession with the Nazis is getting stronger and stronger 
>:-(
>
>

Not me.  The fake conservationists.


>>
>>>>>
>>>>>BTW, I think Ms Hudleston exhibited great patience :-)
>>>>
>>>>If she or anyone else had answered the question, "why are residents in
>>>>national parks not entitled to the same level of local democracy as
>>>>elsewhere in the country?" she and others would not have needed
>>>>"patience".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>snip the sort of repetition that got you absolutely nowhere, yet you
>>>don't seem able to understand why.
>>
>>Would you care to answer the question?
>>
>>Why are residents in national parks not entitled to the same level of
>>local democracy as elsewhere in the country?
>>
>See above about your lack of understanding of local democracy elsewhere 
>in the country.

That's not answering the question.

>
>>If you can, perhaps you could let Mike Russell MSP know.  He couldn't
>>even answer it after Annabelle Goldie MSP asked him on my behalf.
>>
>And were you satisfied with Annabelle Goldie's answer to your question?

Read what I wrote.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

"OM SHIVA!108"  wrote in
news:1d3bbe4d-d66c-4f8e-be02-e9063f55de41
@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
 
> So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.
> 
> 1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks,
> and not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
> Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
> basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and
> perpetuate this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.
> 
> 2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex
> dwellings for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in
> Snowdonia than Scotland - you seem to have different planning
> policy there. Again its sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained
> as a sheep ranched playground for british bastards 1-2-3. Many
> empty derelicts, eco-conservation permaculture designs could be
> enacted quite easily. Will you people have either respect for this
> aewareness or the will to enact it? Of course not. Why? Because
> you're a bunch of total and complete fuking wankers who are
> permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a police state.
> You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak scum...in
> wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to the
> exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic 
> Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.
> 
> PISS OFF
> 

Unfortunately, since most "local" people won't go in for 
permaculture even if they say they will, your 2 would most likely 
make your 1 rather ineffective.  


-- 
Percy Picacity

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:03:05 +0000 (UTC), Percy Picacity
<key@under.the.invalid> wrote:

>"OM SHIVA!108"  wrote in
>news:1d3bbe4d-d66c-4f8e-be02-e9063f55de41
>@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
> 
>> So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.
>> 
>> 1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks,
>> and not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
>> Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
>> basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and
>> perpetuate this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.
>> 
>> 2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex
>> dwellings for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in
>> Snowdonia than Scotland - you seem to have different planning
>> policy there. Again its sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained
>> as a sheep ranched playground for british bastards 1-2-3. Many
>> empty derelicts, eco-conservation permaculture designs could be
>> enacted quite easily. Will you people have either respect for this
>> aewareness or the will to enact it? Of course not. Why? Because
>> you're a bunch of total and complete fuking wankers who are
>> permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a police state.
>> You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak scum...in
>> wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to the
>> exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic 
>> Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.
>> 
>> PISS OFF
>> 
>
>Unfortunately, since most "local" people won't go in for 
>permaculture even if they say they will, your 2 would most likely 
>make your 1 rather ineffective.  

Please don't confuse the troglodytes.

In article , 
amacmil304@aol.com writes
>On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 21:26:31 +0100, Malcolm
> wrote:
>
>>
>>In article ,
>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 19:16:35 +0100, Malcolm
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>In article ,
>>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>>On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:09:23 +0100, Malcolm
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In article ,
>>>>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>>>>Petition by Angus Macmillan calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge
>>>>>>>the Scottish Government to amend the National Parks (Scotland) Act
>>>>>>>2000 to remove local authority powers from national park authorities
>>>>>>>and establish them solely as advisory bodies and to remove such parts
>>>>>>>of the act to ensure that residents within the park boundaries have
>>>>>>>the same level of democracy as elsewhere in the country.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID=234
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>LOL!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The weakness of your position is, of course, that as a resident within
>>>>>>the National Park you are perfectly entitled to stand for election to
>>>>>>the Board where you could exert some direct influence. But you've never
>>>>>>done that, have you?
>>>>>
>>>>>Wrong.  Those elected  to a quango dominated by central government
>>>>>contributes to the lack of local democracy
>>>>>
>>>>Wrong. Those elected to the National Park Board are immediately in a
>>>>position of influence. The fact that you don't appear to think that you,
>>>>personally, could exert such influence is your problem, no-one else's.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Absolute nonsense!
>>>
>>No, Angus, it isn't. You obviously have no experience to draw on. Why
>>don't you contact the existing elected board members and see what they
>>think?
>
>I have but naturally they support what pays them £186 a meeting.
>
What a typical remark of yours :-(

>>
>>>The 25 NPA board members dominated by central government appointees
>>>and board member electees, "must work together with the purpose, as
>>>set out in the Act [section 9 (1)], of ensuring that the National Park
>>>aims are collectively achieved in relation to the National Park in a
>>>coordinated way".  That's not the same level of local democracy as
>>>elsewhere in the country.
>>>
>>You seem to think that there is just the one level of local democracy
>>throughout the rest of the country. Where did you get that idea from?
>>You need to get out more.
>
>Where else has local authority powers been handed to a single issue
>quango?
>
Other National Parks, of course.

>>
>>>Perhaps so-called conservationists like yourself the prefer
>>>dictatorship disguised as democracy - just as the Nazis did in the
>>>1930/40s.
>>>
>>Oh dear.  Your obsession with the Nazis is getting stronger and stronger
>>:-(
>>
>>
>
>Not me.  The fake conservationists.
>
Oh dear. I didn't think it would be long before you introduced your 
imaginary friends.
>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>BTW, I think Ms Hudleston exhibited great patience :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>If she or anyone else had answered the question, "why are residents in
>>>>>national parks not entitled to the same level of local democracy as
>>>>>elsewhere in the country?" she and others would not have needed
>>>>>"patience".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>snip the sort of repetition that got you absolutely nowhere, yet you
>>>>don't seem able to understand why.
>>>
>>>Would you care to answer the question?
>>>
>>>Why are residents in national parks not entitled to the same level of
>>>local democracy as elsewhere in the country?
>>>
>>See above about your lack of understanding of local democracy elsewhere
>>in the country.
>
>That's not answering the question.
>
See above.

>>
>>>If you can, perhaps you could let Mike Russell MSP know.  He couldn't
>>>even answer it after Annabelle Goldie MSP asked him on my behalf.
>>>
>>And were you satisfied with Annabelle Goldie's answer to your question?
>
>Read what I wrote.
>
I did, but I kept falling asleep at the endless repetition :-)

Still, you have been educated about the FOI Act, which is good.

-- 
Malcolm

On Jun 2, 7:03 am, Percy Picacity <k...@under.the.invalid> wrote:
> "OM SHIVA!108"  wrote in
> news:1d3bbe4d-d66c-4f8e-be02-e9063f55de41
> @m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> > So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.
>
> > 1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks,
> > and not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
> > Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
> > basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and
> > perpetuate this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.
>
> > 2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex
> > dwellings for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in
> > Snowdonia than Scotland - you seem to have different planning
> > policy there. Again its sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained
> > as a sheep ranched playground for british bastards 1-2-3. Many
> > empty derelicts, eco-conservation permaculture designs could be
> > enacted quite easily. Will you people have either respect for this
> > aewareness or the will to enact it? Of course not. Why? Because
> > you're a bunch of total and complete fuking wankers who are
> > permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a police state.
> > You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak scum...in
> > wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to the
> > exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic
> > Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.
>
> > PISS OFF
>
> Unfortunately, since most "local" people won't go in for
> permaculture even if they say they will, your 2 would most likely
> make your 1 rather ineffective.
>
> --
> Percy Picacity

Lets be positive eh? They don't know about it, nor do you more than
likely. The ALF creep (Old Codger) probably does, but only in a
strictly veganic context. Grey Squirrel meat can be part of a
permaculture system for sure. Just ask Bill Mollison, I'm sure that he
would approve and tell the ALF loony to piss off in no uncertain terms.

On Jun 2, 8:03 am, Old Codger  wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:03:05 +0000 (UTC), Percy Picacity
>
>
>
> <k...@under.the.invalid> wrote:
> >"OM SHIVA!108"  wrote in
> >news:1d3bbe4d-d66c-4f8e-be02-e9063f55de41
> >@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
>
> >> So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.
>
> >> 1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks,
> >> and not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
> >> Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
> >> basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and
> >> perpetuate this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.
>
> >> 2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex
> >> dwellings for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in
> >> Snowdonia than Scotland - you seem to have different planning
> >> policy there. Again its sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained
> >> as a sheep ranched playground for british bastards 1-2-3. Many
> >> empty derelicts, eco-conservation permaculture designs could be
> >> enacted quite easily. Will you people have either respect for this
> >> aewareness or the will to enact it? Of course not. Why? Because
> >> you're a bunch of total and complete fuking wankers who are
> >> permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a police state.
> >> You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak scum...in
> >> wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to the
> >> exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic
> >> Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.
>
> >> PISS OFF
>
> >Unfortunately, since most "local" people won't go in for
> >permaculture even if they say they will, your 2 would most likely
> >make your 1 rather ineffective.
>
> Please don't confuse the troglodytes.

Its you thats trolling, cross posting and spamming, ALF wierdo.

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:14:54 -0700 (PDT), "OM SHIVA!108"
 wrote:

>On Jun 2, 8:03 am, Old Codger  wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:03:05 +0000 (UTC), Percy Picacity
>>
>>
>>
>> <k...@under.the.invalid> wrote:
>> >"OM SHIVA!108"  wrote in
>> >news:1d3bbe4d-d66c-4f8e-be02-e9063f55de41
>> >@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
>>
>> >> So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.
>>
>> >> 1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks,
>> >> and not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
>> >> Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
>> >> basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and
>> >> perpetuate this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.
>>
>> >> 2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex
>> >> dwellings for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in
>> >> Snowdonia than Scotland - you seem to have different planning
>> >> policy there. Again its sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained
>> >> as a sheep ranched playground for british bastards 1-2-3. Many
>> >> empty derelicts, eco-conservation permaculture designs could be
>> >> enacted quite easily. Will you people have either respect for this
>> >> aewareness or the will to enact it? Of course not. Why? Because
>> >> you're a bunch of total and complete fuking wankers who are
>> >> permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a police state.
>> >> You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak scum...in
>> >> wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to the
>> >> exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic
>> >> Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.
>>
>> >> PISS OFF
>>
>> >Unfortunately, since most "local" people won't go in for
>> >permaculture even if they say they will, your 2 would most likely
>> >make your 1 rather ineffective.
>>
>> Please don't confuse the troglodytes.
>
>Its you thats trolling, cross posting and spamming, ALF wierdo.

You could do with educating you gnome!

On Jun 2, 10:14 am, Old Codger  wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:14:54 -0700 (PDT), "OM SHIVA!108"
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> >On Jun 2, 8:03 am, Old Codger  wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:03:05 +0000 (UTC), Percy Picacity
>
> >> <k...@under.the.invalid> wrote:
> >> >"OM SHIVA!108"  wrote in
> >> >news:1d3bbe4d-d66c-4f8e-be02-e9063f55de41
> >> >@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
>
> >> >> So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.
>
> >> >> 1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks,
> >> >> and not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
> >> >> Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
> >> >> basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and
> >> >> perpetuate this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.
>
> >> >> 2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex
> >> >> dwellings for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in
> >> >> Snowdonia than Scotland - you seem to have different planning
> >> >> policy there. Again its sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained
> >> >> as a sheep ranched playground for british bastards 1-2-3. Many
> >> >> empty derelicts, eco-conservation permaculture designs could be
> >> >> enacted quite easily. Will you people have either respect for this
> >> >> aewareness or the will to enact it? Of course not. Why? Because
> >> >> you're a bunch of total and complete fuking wankers who are
> >> >> permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a police state.
> >> >> You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak scum...in
> >> >> wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to the
> >> >> exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic
> >> >> Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.
>
> >> >> PISS OFF
>
> >> >Unfortunately, since most "local" people won't go in for
> >> >permaculture even if they say they will, your 2 would most likely
> >> >make your 1 rather ineffective.
>
> >> Please don't confuse the troglodytes.
>
> >Its you thats trolling, cross posting and spamming, ALF wierdo.
>
> You could do with educating you gnome!

Taking to yourself egoiser.

On 2 Jun, 13:23, "OM SHIVA!108"  wrote:
> On Jun 2, 10:14 am, Old Codger  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:14:54 -0700 (PDT), "OM SHIVA!108"
>
> >  wrote:
> > >On Jun 2, 8:03 am, Old Codger  wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:03:05 +0000 (UTC), Percy Picacity
>
> > >> <k...@under.the.invalid> wrote:
> > >> >"OM SHIVA!108"  wrote in
> > >> >news:1d3bbe4d-d66c-4f8e-be02-e9063f55de41
> > >> >@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
>
> > >> >> So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.
>
> > >> >> 1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks,
> > >> >> and not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
> > >> >> Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
> > >> >> basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and
> > >> >> perpetuate this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.
>
> > >> >> 2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex
> > >> >> dwellings for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in
> > >> >> Snowdonia than Scotland - you seem to have different planning
> > >> >> policy there. Again its sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained
> > >> >> as a sheep ranched playground for british bastards 1-2-3. Many
> > >> >> empty derelicts, eco-conservation permaculture designs could be
> > >> >> enacted quite easily. Will you people have either respect for this
> > >> >> aewareness or the will to enact it? Of course not. Why? Because
> > >> >> you're a bunch of total and complete fuking wankers who are
> > >> >> permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a police state.
> > >> >> You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak scum...in
> > >> >> wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to the
> > >> >> exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic
> > >> >> Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.
>
> > >> >> PISS OFF
>
> > >> >Unfortunately, since most "local" people won't go in for
> > >> >permaculture even if they say they will, your 2 would most likely
> > >> >make your 1 rather ineffective.
>
> > >> Please don't confuse the troglodytes.
>
> > >Its you thats trolling, cross posting and spamming, ALF wierdo.
>
> > You could do with educating you gnome!
>
> Taking to yourself egoiser.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The Makah Tribe have the right to hunt whale. Have some respect you
silly fuking white prick.

In message , Old Codger 
 writes
>On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:14:54 -0700 (PDT), "OM SHIVA!108"
> wrote:
>
>>On Jun 2, 8:03 am, Old Codger  wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:03:05 +0000 (UTC), Percy Picacity
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <k...@under.the.invalid> wrote:
>>> >"OM SHIVA!108"  wrote in
>>> >news:1d3bbe4d-d66c-4f8e-be02-e9063f55de41
>>> >@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> >> So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.
>>>
>>> >> 1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks,
>>> >> and not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
>>> >> Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
>>> >> basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and
>>> >> perpetuate this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.
>>>
>>> >> 2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex
>>> >> dwellings for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in
>>> >> Snowdonia than Scotland - you seem to have different planning
>>> >> policy there. Again its sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained
>>> >> as a sheep ranched playground for british bastards 1-2-3. Many
>>> >> empty derelicts, eco-conservation permaculture designs could be
>>> >> enacted quite easily. Will you people have either respect for this
>>> >> aewareness or the will to enact it? Of course not. Why? Because
>>> >> you're a bunch of total and complete fuking wankers who are
>>> >> permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a police state.
>>> >> You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak scum...in
>>> >> wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to the
>>> >> exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic
>>> >> Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.
>>>
>>> >> PISS OFF
>>>
>>> >Unfortunately, since most "local" people won't go in for
>>> >permaculture even if they say they will, your 2 would most likely
>>> >make your 1 rather ineffective.
>>>
>>> Please don't confuse the troglodytes.
>>
>>Its you thats trolling, cross posting and spamming, ALF wierdo.
>
>You could do with educating you gnome!
>
It's a sad testament of the failure of his educators as well as 
demonstrably poor parenting. Sympathy, not condemnation, should perhaps 
be the watchword.

It's times like this that my wholehearted opposition to genetic 
engineering is undermined - maybe after all  there are (head)cases where 
it's appropriate.

As well as believing that "grammar" is the another name for a 
gramophone, finding a coherent argument (or even a single coherent 
thought) in that immense vacuum between his ears is rather like looking 
for a rabbit in the middle of the Irish Sea.

Sorry... it's not a vacuum - rather it's a depository for senseless 
babbling invective.

-- 
Zillion

In message 
, OM 
SHIVA!108  writes
>On Jun 2, 10:14 am, Old Codger  wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:14:54 -0700 (PDT), "OM SHIVA!108"
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Jun 2, 8:03 am, Old Codger  wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:03:05 +0000 (UTC), Percy Picacity
>>
>> >> <k...@under.the.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >"OM SHIVA!108"  wrote in
>> >> >news:1d3bbe4d-d66c-4f8e-be02-e9063f55de41
>> >> >@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
>>
>> >> >> So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.
>>
>> >> >> 1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks,
>> >> >> and not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
>> >> >> Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
>> >> >> basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and
>> >> >> perpetuate this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.
>>
>> >> >> 2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex
>> >> >> dwellings for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in
>> >> >> Snowdonia than Scotland - you seem to have different planning
>> >> >> policy there. Again its sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained
>> >> >> as a sheep ranched playground for british bastards 1-2-3. Many
>> >> >> empty derelicts, eco-conservation permaculture designs could be
>> >> >> enacted quite easily. Will you people have either respect for this
>> >> >> aewareness or the will to enact it? Of course not. Why? Because
>> >> >> you're a bunch of total and complete fuking wankers who are
>> >> >> permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a police state.
>> >> >> You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak scum...in
>> >> >> wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to the
>> >> >> exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic
>> >> >> Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.
>>
>> >> >> PISS OFF
>>
>> >> >Unfortunately, since most "local" people won't go in for
>> >> >permaculture even if they say they will, your 2 would most likely
>> >> >make your 1 rather ineffective.
>>
>> >> Please don't confuse the troglodytes.
>>
>> >Its you thats trolling, cross posting and spamming, ALF wierdo.
>>
>> You could do with educating you gnome!
>
>Taking to yourself egoiser.

What a erudite response.......

Poor thing, he thinks that inventing new words compensates for his 
abysmal grasp of language, as well as the complete absence of a single 
coherent thought.

If Matt Lucas and David Walliams had have met this guy, he would have 
been a star on a TV sketch.

-- 
Zillion

In message 
, OM 
SHIVA!108  writes
>On Jun 2, 7:03 am, Percy Picacity <k...@under.the.invalid> wrote:
>> "OM SHIVA!108"  wrote in
>> news:1d3bbe4d-d66c-4f8e-be02-e9063f55de41
>> @m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> > So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.
>>
>> > 1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks,
>> > and not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
>> > Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
>> > basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and
>> > perpetuate this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.
>>
>> > 2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex
>> > dwellings for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in
>> > Snowdonia than Scotland - you seem to have different planning
>> > policy there. Again its sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained
>> > as a sheep ranched playground for british bastards 1-2-3. Many
>> > empty derelicts, eco-conservation permaculture designs could be
>> > enacted quite easily. Will you people have either respect for this
>> > aewareness or the will to enact it? Of course not. Why? Because
>> > you're a bunch of total and complete fuking wankers who are
>> > permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a police state.
>> > You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak scum...in
>> > wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to the
>> > exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic
>> > Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.
>>
>> > PISS OFF
>>
>> Unfortunately, since most "local" people won't go in for
>> permaculture even if they say they will, your 2 would most likely
>> make your 1 rather ineffective.
>>
>> --
>> Percy Picacity
>
>Lets be positive eh? They don't know about it, nor do you more than
>likely. The ALF creep (Old Codger) probably does, but only in a
>strictly veganic context. Grey Squirrel meat can be part of a
>permaculture system for sure. Just ask Bill Mollison, I'm sure that he
>would approve and tell the ALF loony to piss off in no uncertain terms.

Vaganic?

Is that some sort of vaginal mechanic?

For Gods sake - stop showing yourself up as a complete and utter dumbo.

Do you talk like this in the real world? If you do, it's no wonder that 
you're such a sad and friendless person.
-- 
Zillion

On Jun 2, 9:51 pm, TonyMorgan  wrote:
> In message
> , OM
> SHIVA!108  writes
>
>
>
> >On Jun 2, 10:14 am, Old Codger  wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:14:54 -0700 (PDT), "OM SHIVA!108"
>
> >>  wrote:
> >> >On Jun 2, 8:03 am, Old Codger  wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:03:05 +0000 (UTC), Percy Picacity
>
> >> >> <k...@under.the.invalid> wrote:
> >> >> >"OM SHIVA!108"  wrote in
> >> >> >news:1d3bbe4d-d66c-4f8e-be02-e9063f55de41
> >> >> >@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com
>
> >> >> >> So its an elected dicatorship - changes are needed.
>
> >> >> >> 1/ Bias towards wilderness/natural biodiversity in national parks,
> >> >> >> and not he maintainance of sheep raches and deer parks...think of
> >> >> >> Snowdonia for example - a scappy waste, a shithole - a disgrace
> >> >> >> basically. Deeply boring wankers make these decisions, and
> >> >> >> perpetuate this sort of complete and total fuking rubbish.
>
> >> >> >> 2/ Change to planning regs to allow the redevelopment of ex
> >> >> >> dwellings for local occupancy - again more of a serious issue in
> >> >> >> Snowdonia than Scotland - you seem to have different planning
> >> >> >> policy there. Again its sick and sad to sea Snowdonia maintained
> >> >> >> as a sheep ranched playground for british bastards 1-2-3. Many
> >> >> >> empty derelicts, eco-conservation permaculture designs could be
> >> >> >> enacted quite easily. Will you people have either respect for this
> >> >> >> aewareness or the will to enact it? Of course not. Why? Because
> >> >> >> you're a bunch of total and complete fuking wankers who are
> >> >> >> permitting these war criminal perverts to enact a police state.
> >> >> >> You kowtow to their sick order. You are worthless weak scum...in
> >> >> >> wales, north wales, they are obsessed with language issue to the
> >> >> >> exclusion of just about everything else. Its (you are) pathetic
> >> >> >> Welsh. Sentimental weak creeps.
>
> >> >> >> PISS OFF
>
> >> >> >Unfortunately, since most "local" people won't go in for
> >> >> >permaculture even if they say they will, your 2 would most likely
> >> >> >make your 1 rather ineffective.
>
> >> >> Please don't confuse the troglodytes.
>
> >> >Its you thats trolling, cross posting and spamming, ALF wierdo.
>
> >> You could do with educating you gnome!
>
> >Taking to yourself egoiser.
>
> What a erudite response.......
>
> Poor thing, he thinks that inventing new words compensates for his
> abysmal grasp of language, as well as the complete absence of a single
> coherent thought.
>
> If Matt Lucas and David Walliams had have met this guy, he would have
> been a star on a TV sketch.

This guy (Morgan) hates me 'cos of what I said about his friends in
North Wales Police (in particular the ritual child abuser Shwartz) -
so now he allies himself with the Animal Liberation Front headcase.
Thats the kinda friends you have Old Codger/ALF etc in your campaign
of harrasment against the Makah Tribe. i.e. very very nasty and pervy
scum like Morgan. Think about it fuking morons.