According to the press, naturalised grey squirrels are being supplanted by 
'black' squirrels. See

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/26/endangeredspecies


Now, these are not the 'black squirrels' found in parts of Europe and Asia, 
which are variants of what we call red squirrels, but are, apparently, a 
mutant form of grey squirrels. As such, this phenotype is presumably 
genetically unique to these islands, and, arguably, evolved here. So is it 
'native' to England?

In article , BAC 
 writes
>According to the press, naturalised grey squirrels are being supplanted by
>'black' squirrels. See
>
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/26/endangeredspecies
>
>
>Now, these are not the 'black squirrels' found in parts of Europe and Asia,
>which are variants of what we call red squirrels, but are, apparently, a
>mutant form of grey squirrels. As such, this phenotype is presumably
>genetically unique to these islands, and, arguably, evolved here. So is it
>'native' to England?
>
>
:-))

Nice one, Brian, but if you go to:

http://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/fr/INFD-6HTK9B

you will discover that melanistic grey squirrels (which is what these 
'black squirrels' are) were introduced to England over 100 years ago 
along with the ordinary greys, so the phenotype is not genetically 
unique to Britain and so cannot be said to have "evolved here" Nor can 
they be described as "native" using the internationally accepted 
definition.

The original introduction site was Woburn Park, Bedfordshire, which 
explains the present distribution in Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and 
Hertfordshire

Note, also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Squirrel

"Black squirrels are a melanistic phase of the Eastern Grey Squirrel. 
They are common in Midwestern North America and, in some places, 
outnumber the grey squirrels by a ratio of about ten to one."

-- 
Malcolm

"Malcolm"  wrote in message 
news:WRWKWwGEeqHIFwBd@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>
> In article , BAC 
>  writes
>>According to the press, naturalised grey squirrels are being supplanted by
>>'black' squirrels. See
>>
>>http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/26/endangeredspecies
>>
>>
>>Now, these are not the 'black squirrels' found in parts of Europe and 
>>Asia,
>>which are variants of what we call red squirrels, but are, apparently, a
>>mutant form of grey squirrels. As such, this phenotype is presumably
>>genetically unique to these islands, and, arguably, evolved here. So is it
>>'native' to England?
>>
>>
> :-))
>
> Nice one, Brian, but if you go to:
>
> http://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/fr/INFD-6HTK9B
>
> you will discover that melanistic grey squirrels (which is what these 
> 'black squirrels' are) were introduced to England over 100 years ago along 
> with the ordinary greys, so the phenotype is not genetically unique to 
> Britain and so cannot be said to have "evolved here" Nor can they be 
> described as "native" using the internationally accepted definition.
>
> The original introduction site was Woburn Park, Bedfordshire, which 
> explains the present distribution in Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and 
> Hertfordshire
>
> Note, also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Squirrel
>
> "Black squirrels are a melanistic phase of the Eastern Grey Squirrel. They 
> are common in Midwestern North America and, in some places, outnumber the 
> grey squirrels by a ratio of about ten to one."
>

A reminder, if one were needed, not to believe what one reads in the Press, 
assuming the 'black squirrels' giving rise to the reports are indeed 
descendants of the Woburn Park introductions :-)

In article ,
   BAC  wrote:
> According to the press, naturalised grey squirrels are being supplanted by 
> 'black' squirrels. See

> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/26/endangeredspecies


> Now, these are not the 'black squirrels' found in parts of Europe and
> Asia, which are variants of what we call red squirrels, but are,
> apparently, a mutant form of grey squirrels. As such, this phenotype is
> presumably genetically unique to these islands, and, arguably, evolved
> here. So is it 'native' to England? 


AIUI they are variants of the Grey.

"Robert Seago"  wrote in message 
news:4f9adda344rjseago@zetnet.co.uk...
> In article ,
>   BAC  wrote:
>> According to the press, naturalised grey squirrels are being supplanted 
>> by
>> 'black' squirrels. See
>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/26/endangeredspecies
>
>
>> Now, these are not the 'black squirrels' found in parts of Europe and
>> Asia, which are variants of what we call red squirrels, but are,
>> apparently, a mutant form of grey squirrels. As such, this phenotype is
>> presumably genetically unique to these islands, and, arguably, evolved
>> here. So is it 'native' to England?
>
>
> AIUI they are variants of the Grey.
>

That may well be the case, especially in view of Malcolm's earlier reply, 
but if, for the sake of argument, they were a variant which had developed 
here and were genetically distinct and unique, wouldn't that make them 
'native' (as opposed to 'naturalised')?

In article , BAC 
 writes
>
>"Robert Seago"  wrote in message
>news:4f9adda344rjseago@zetnet.co.uk...
>> In article ,
>>   BAC  wrote:
>>> According to the press, naturalised grey squirrels are being supplanted
>>> by
>>> 'black' squirrels. See
>>
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/26/endangeredspecies
>>
>>
>>> Now, these are not the 'black squirrels' found in parts of Europe and
>>> Asia, which are variants of what we call red squirrels, but are,
>>> apparently, a mutant form of grey squirrels. As such, this phenotype is
>>> presumably genetically unique to these islands, and, arguably, evolved
>>> here. So is it 'native' to England?
>>
>>
>> AIUI they are variants of the Grey.
>>
>
>That may well be the case, especially in view of Malcolm's earlier reply,
>but if, for the sake of argument, they were a variant which had developed
>here and were genetically distinct and unique, wouldn't that make them
>'native' (as opposed to 'naturalised')?
>
No, because they have not evolved into a new species. Note that the 
genetic difference involved in colour phases in animals is often as 
little as a single allele.

-- 
Malcolm