In article 
, John 
M.  writes
>On Feb 9, 12:34 am, amacmil...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:05:06 -0800 (PST), "John M."
>>
>>
>> There is a rational argument that shooting is cruel.  Even the BASC's
>> own survey and vets' evidence at the Burns Inquiry have confirmed
>> this.
>
>There is a consensus among rational people that kosher and halal
>butchery is cruel. There isn't a hope in hell of having it banned
>until you convince the religious bigots that carry it out of this. So
>it is with shooting. If BASC recognise it is cruel, but wish to
>continue to shoot, they should be in the forefront of any chance to
>change existing legislation with regard to the practice. Have you
>talked to them about it?
>
Just a thought, John, but as this is Angus making a claim about BASC's 
survey, the first thing you should ask for is the reference which shows 
that the survey did indeed confirm that "shooting is cruel".

-- 
Malcolm

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 07:26:36 +0000, Malcolm
 wrote:

>
>In article , 
>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 20:32:15 +0000, Malcolm
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>In article ,
>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 17:09:36 +0000, Malcolm
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In article ,
>>>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>>>On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 13:50:27 +0000, Malcolm
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article ,
>>>>>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>>>>>On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 12:19:28 +0000, Malcolm
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In article ,
>>>>>>>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>>>>>>>On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 10:05:04 +0000, Malcolm
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>In article
>>>>>>>>>>>, 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>M.  writes
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Feb 9, 12:34 am, amacmil...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:05:06 -0800 (PST), "John M."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a rational argument that shooting is cruel. Even 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> own survey and vets' evidence at the Burns Inquiry have confirmed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>There is a consensus among rational people that kosher and halal
>>>>>>>>>>>>butchery is cruel. There isn't a hope in hell of having it banned
>>>>>>>>>>>>until you convince the religious bigots that carry it out of this. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>it is with shooting. If BASC recognise it is cruel, but wish to
>>>>>>>>>>>>continue to shoot, they should be in the forefront of any chance to
>>>>>>>>>>>>change existing legislation with regard to the practice. Have you
>>>>>>>>>>>>talked to them about it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Just a thought, John, but as this is Angus making a claim about BASC's
>>>>>>>>>>>survey, the first thing you should ask for is the reference 
>>>>>>>>>>>which shows
>>>>>>>>>>>that the survey did indeed confirm that "shooting is cruel".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>No need.  The survey that was leaked showed that up to 40% of
>>>>>>>>>>gamebirds were injured rather than killed outright by shooters.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You claimed that "the BASC's own survey" confirmed that "shooting is
>>>>>>>>>cruel".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>They commissioned it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Do they use the phrase "shooting is cruel"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Up to 40% injured is cruel.  Their survey confirms this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>I see that, unsurprisingly, you have indulged in your usual habit of
>>>>>failing to answer a straightforward question, so I'll ask it again.
>>>>>
>>>>>Do BASC use the phrase "shooting is cruel", in their report.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Where did I say they did?   Read what I wrote.
>>>>
>>>You said that their survey confirmed that "shooting is cruel".
>>
>>Yes. It did.
>>
>>>
>>>As soon as I asked whether the survey even mentioned the word "cruel"
>>>you went into typical wriggling mode indicating that, clearly, it did
>>>not.
>>
>>Injuring birds is cruel.
>>
>>>
>>>Yet another example of Angus twisting words and meanings :-(
>>>
>>
>>Not at all.
>>
>Absolutely and deliberately.
>
>Thank you for this confirmation.

Rubbish. I haven't confirmed anything of the sort.  More sloppy
thinking from Malcolm.

Are you saying that injuring up to 40% of game birds is not cruel?


>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I suggested that you should be asked for the reference.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Typically, you have failed to produce it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It's in the public domain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Look it up yourself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So you don't know where it is. Thought not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Do your own research
>>>>>>
>>>>>So you don't know.
>>>>
>>>>Of course I do and so do you.
>>>>
>>>Another typical Angus response.
>>
>>Another typical Malcolm response.
>>
>>>
>>>He claims there is a report in the public domain, but when asked for the
>>>reference, fails to produce it.
>>
>>Look it up yourself like I did.
>>
>Thank you for this failure to produce a reference, Angus. It says a 
>great deal about you.

It says, "look it up yourself like I did"



Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)