Squirrel Massacre
Posted 29 January 2008

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/news_wildlife/ALL/1729//
Almost 12,000 grey squirrels have been poisoned to death or shot in
the past year in a ‘cull’ funded by the government. The killings took
place in Northumberland and were undertaken - it was said - to protect
the red squirrel. Grey squirrels are charged with driving reds from
their homes, infecting them with viruses and destroying woodlands.

In reality, red squirrels suffered badly from deforestation, severe
winters and epidemic diseases long before grey squirrels arrived in
the UK. Despite their decline to near extinction in the eighteenth
century, hundreds of thousands of red squirrels continued to be killed
by clubs for a bounty. The organised killing of reds continued until
the 1930s. Since then, fashions have changed and the red squirrel is
back in vogue.

It is interesting to note that main proponents of squirrel culls are
those with forestry interests, supporters of field sports or
gamekeepers.

Two years ago, Lord Plumb speaking in the House of Lords, called for a
cull of grey squirrels. He said: ‘Some 60 years ago the Ministry of
Agriculture started to encourage people to kill squirrels, offering—I
remember it only too clearly—a shilling a tail. I became a very
wealthy young man at that time, as we had a lot of grey squirrels in
the area and I did not need a lot of encouragement to do something
about them. When the government at that time had paid out some
£250,000, they decided that that was enough. There was no perceivable
difference to the squirrel population.’

On this final point, he is right. Culls of grey squirrels do not work.
Recent research found that culls actually may actually lead to an
increase in numbers and their recolonisation can spread any disease
they may be carrying further afield.

Lord Redesdale - promoter of the recent Northumberland cull - said
that the grey squirrels were killed ‘humanely’ through the use of
Warfarin or trapping and then shooting. In actual fact, Warfarin and
other blood-thinning drugs are described by the Pesticides and Safety
Directorate as ‘markedly inhumane’. These substances cause internal
haemorrhaging and death rarely occurs quickly. Live trapping animals
causes stress and suffering, while the animal waits hours - or perhaps
days - to be put out of his or her misery. Neither method is humane.

The squirrel cull is set to expand to County Durham.

Complain to the government 
mailto:hilary.benn@defra.gsi.gov.uk
Read Animal Aid’s report 
http://tinyurl.com/2jdnsm

On Feb 1, 1:54 pm, Adam Hart  wrote:
> Squirrel Massacre
> Posted 29 January 2008
>
> http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/news_wildlife/ALL/1729//
> Almost 12,000 grey squirrels have been poisoned to death or shot in
> the past year in a 'cull' funded by the government. The killings took
> place in Northumberland and were undertaken - it was said - to protect
> the red squirrel. Grey squirrels are charged with driving reds from
> their homes, infecting them with viruses and destroying woodlands.

The cull was done precisely for those reasons, and it is a good thing
to do.  Grow up.

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:54:52 +0000, Adam Hart 
wrote:

>Squirrel Massacre
>Posted 29 January 2008
>
>http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/news_wildlife/ALL/1729//
>Almost 12,000 grey squirrels have been poisoned to death or shot in
>the past year in a ‘cull’ funded by the government. The killings took
>place in Northumberland and were undertaken - it was said - to protect
>the red squirrel. Grey squirrels are charged with driving reds from
>their homes, infecting them with viruses and destroying woodlands.
>
>In reality, red squirrels suffered badly from deforestation, severe
>winters and epidemic diseases long before grey squirrels arrived in
>the UK. Despite their decline to near extinction in the eighteenth
>century, hundreds of thousands of red squirrels continued to be killed
>by clubs for a bounty. The organised killing of reds continued until
>the 1930s. Since then, fashions have changed and the red squirrel is
>back in vogue.
>
>It is interesting to note that main proponents of squirrel culls are
>those with forestry interests, supporters of field sports or
>gamekeepers.
>
>Two years ago, Lord Plumb speaking in the House of Lords, called for a
>cull of grey squirrels. He said: ‘Some 60 years ago the Ministry of
>Agriculture started to encourage people to kill squirrels, offering—I
>remember it only too clearly—a shilling a tail. I became a very
>wealthy young man at that time, as we had a lot of grey squirrels in
>the area and I did not need a lot of encouragement to do something
>about them. When the government at that time had paid out some
>£250,000, they decided that that was enough. There was no perceivable
>difference to the squirrel population.’
>
>On this final point, he is right. Culls of grey squirrels do not work.
>Recent research found that culls actually may actually lead to an
>increase in numbers and their recolonisation can spread any disease
>they may be carrying further afield.
>
>Lord Redesdale - promoter of the recent Northumberland cull - said
>that the grey squirrels were killed ‘humanely’ through the use of
>Warfarin or trapping and then shooting. In actual fact, Warfarin and
>other blood-thinning drugs are described by the Pesticides and Safety
>Directorate as ‘markedly inhumane’. These substances cause internal
>haemorrhaging and death rarely occurs quickly. Live trapping animals
>causes stress and suffering, while the animal waits hours - or perhaps
>days - to be put out of his or her misery. Neither method is humane.
>
>The squirrel cull is set to expand to County Durham.
>
>Complain to the government 
>mailto:hilary.benn@defra.gsi.gov.uk
>Read Animal Aid’s report 
>http://tinyurl.com/2jdnsm


An absolute disgrace that our government is funding this.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Straightforward discussion of the issue at:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-should-animals-that-have-died-out-in-britain-be-reintroduced-into-the-wild-776727.html

should any of you have missed it.

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 02:45:12 -0800 (PST), "John M."
 wrote:

>Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>
>http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-should-animals-that-have-died-out-in-britain-be-reintroduced-into-the-wild-776727.html
>
>should any of you have missed it.


I had missed it.

There does seem to be some blatant errors here.

Red Squirrels were introduced to Scotland about 100 years ago. and
most of the reds in England are not indigenous.  Cumbria tried to say
their's were but is was shown to be wrong.


Anyway thanks for the tip.  I've sent her a copy of "Not so native
introductions"



 
Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

"John M."  wrote in message 
news:87bc9eda-a356-4b24-81a4-09676d1595cc@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>
> http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-should-animals-that-have-died-out-in-britain-be-reintroduced-into-the-wild-776727.html
>
> should any of you have missed it.

As you say, a straightforward discussion of a complex issue. Personally, I 
think it would be an excellent idea to reintroduce reindeer, lynx, wolves, 
wolverines, beavers and brown bears into the wild in Scotland - as long as 
they stayed there, that is :-)

On Feb 2, 4:19 pm, "BAC"  wrote:
> "John M."  wrote in message
>
> news:87bc9eda-a356-4b24-81a4-09676d1595cc@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>
> >http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-shou...
>
> > should any of you have missed it.
>
> As you say, a straightforward discussion of a complex issue. Personally, I
> think it would be an excellent idea to reintroduce reindeer, lynx, wolves,
> wolverines, beavers and brown bears into the wild in Scotland - as long as
> they stayed there, that is :-)

I think there are already Reindeer there, but existing like those in
Lappland - semi-feral.

Was Wolverine ever a UK mammal in historic times? If it died out prior
to the arrival of humans it would be impossible to argue a sensible
case for re-introduction, which IMO is all about making good the
damage that people and development have caused.

Wolves could only be brought back after lots of positive spin. They
have to be made cuddly, and demonstrably not prone to eating grannies.

Rebuilding Hadrian's wall ,Israeli style, might be enough to keep them
in Scotland;-)  But determined swimmers among them could still get
into England.

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 08:05:18 -0800 (PST), "John M."
 wrote:

>On Feb 2, 4:19 pm, "BAC"  wrote:
>> "John M."  wrote in message
>>
>> news:87bc9eda-a356-4b24-81a4-09676d1595cc@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>>
>> >http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-shou...
>>
>> > should any of you have missed it.
>>
>> As you say, a straightforward discussion of a complex issue. Personally, I
>> think it would be an excellent idea to reintroduce reindeer, lynx, wolves,
>> wolverines, beavers and brown bears into the wild in Scotland - as long as
>> they stayed there, that is :-)
>
>I think there are already Reindeer there, but existing like those in
>Lappland - semi-feral.
>
>Was Wolverine ever a UK mammal in historic times? If it died out prior
>to the arrival of humans it would be impossible to argue a sensible
>case for re-introduction, which IMO is all about making good the
>damage that people and development have caused.
>
>Wolves could only be brought back after lots of positive spin. They
>have to be made cuddly, and demonstrably not prone to eating grannies.
>
>Rebuilding Hadrian's wall ,Israeli style, might be enough to keep them
>in Scotland;-)  But determined swimmers among them could still get
>into England.

It's not the public they need be afraid of, it's the CONservation
hooligans and their partners that will be slaughtering them, as they
do foxes and other wildlife now.

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 15:19:21 -0000, "BAC" 
wrote:

>
>"John M."  wrote in message 
>news:87bc9eda-a356-4b24-81a4-09676d1595cc@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>>
>> http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-should-animals-that-have-died-out-in-britain-be-reintroduced-into-the-wild-776727.html
>>
>> should any of you have missed it.
>
>As you say, a straightforward discussion of a complex issue. Personally, I 
>think it would be an excellent idea to reintroduce reindeer, lynx, wolves, 
>wolverines, beavers and brown bears into the wild in Scotland - as long as 
>they stayed there, that is :-) 
>

I wouldn't mind as long as it was a hanging offence to kill them.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

On Feb 2, 2:22 pm, amacmil...@aol.com wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 02:45:12 -0800 (PST), "John M."
>
>  wrote:
> >Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>
> >http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-shou...
>
> >should any of you have missed it.
>
> I had missed it.
>
> There does seem to be some blatant errors here.

I'm not the expert in these matters that you obviously are.

> Red Squirrels were introduced to Scotland about 100 years ago. and
> most of the reds in England are not indigenous.  Cumbria tried to say
> their's were but is was shown to be wrong.

You've obviously researched these matters far more deeply than Defra
scientists, who believe that Red Squirrel is native. Use your
exceptional scholarship in British natural history to write in and put
them right. Posterity will thank you for ever.

> Anyway thanks for the tip.  I've sent her a copy of "Not so native
> introductions"

I fear she may be too blinkered to appreciate the thousands of hours
of tedious, mind-numbing literature searching you must have undertaken
to produce such a seminal work.

In article , BAC 
 writes
>
>"John M."  wrote in message
>news:87bc9eda-a356-4b24-81a4-09676d1595cc@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>>
>> 
>>http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-should
>>-animals-that-have-died-out-in-britain-be-reintroduced-into-the-wild-77
>>6727.html
>>
>> should any of you have missed it.
>
>As you say, a straightforward discussion of a complex issue. Personally, I
>think it would be an excellent idea to reintroduce reindeer, lynx, wolves,
>wolverines, beavers and brown bears into the wild in Scotland - as long as
>they stayed there, that is :-)
>
>
I can't recall his name, but several years ago there used to be someone 
very keen indeed on introducing wolves to Scotland - always writing to 
the press about it - who lived in Oxfordshire(1), which I always thought 
could be regarded as a nice safe distance :-))

(1) He may still do - he ran some kind of Wolf reintroduction society, I 
think.

-- 
Malcolm

In article , 
amacmil304@aol.com writes
>On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 15:19:21 -0000, "BAC" 
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"John M."  wrote in message
>>news:87bc9eda-a356-4b24-81a4-09676d1595cc@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>>>
>>> 
>>>http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-shoul
>>>d-animals-that-have-died-out-in-britain-be-reintroduced-into-the-wild-
>>>776727.html
>>>
>>> should any of you have missed it.
>>
>>As you say, a straightforward discussion of a complex issue. Personally, I
>>think it would be an excellent idea to reintroduce reindeer, lynx, wolves,
>>wolverines, beavers and brown bears into the wild in Scotland - as long as
>>they stayed there, that is :-)
>>
>
>I wouldn't mind as long as it was a hanging offence to kill them.
>
Do you advocate hanging for people who kill people or only for people 
who kill animals?

And do you stop at making killing reindeer, lynx, wolves, wolverines, 
beavers and brown bears a hanging offence, or would you include, e.g., 
squirrels, deer, rabbits, rats and mosquitos?

-- 
Malcolm

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 17:54:29 +0000, Malcolm
 wrote:

>
>In article , 
>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 15:19:21 -0000, "BAC" 
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"John M."  wrote in message
>>>news:87bc9eda-a356-4b24-81a4-09676d1595cc@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-shoul
>>>>d-animals-that-have-died-out-in-britain-be-reintroduced-into-the-wild-
>>>>776727.html
>>>>
>>>> should any of you have missed it.
>>>
>>>As you say, a straightforward discussion of a complex issue. Personally, I
>>>think it would be an excellent idea to reintroduce reindeer, lynx, wolves,
>>>wolverines, beavers and brown bears into the wild in Scotland - as long as
>>>they stayed there, that is :-)
>>>
>>
>>I wouldn't mind as long as it was a hanging offence to kill them.
>>
>Do you advocate hanging for people who kill people or only for people 
>who kill animals?

I have always supported capital punishment for murder and I would
extend that to animals.  The poachers who kill elephants and tigers
are little different from those who go out with the intention of
killing other wildlife.


>
>And do you stop at making killing reindeer, lynx, wolves, wolverines, 
>beavers and brown bears a hanging offence, or would you include, e.g., 
>squirrels, deer, rabbits, rats and mosquitos?

I would not stop at any sentient animals that did not require to be
killed in self defence of the person.

There is no need whatsoever to kill wildlife.

And before you put humans on a pedestal above other animals just
remember our present government is responsible for the killing of tens
of thousands of innocent people in Iraq and they did it on the premise
of lies.

Human life is cheap even in Britain when it's not near to home.



Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

On Feb 2, 6:51 pm, Malcolm  wrote:
> In article , BAC
>  writes
>
>
>
> >"John M."  wrote in message
> >news:87bc9eda-a356-4b24-81a4-09676d1595cc@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >> Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>
> >>http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-should
> >>-animals-that-have-died-out-in-britain-be-reintroduced-into-the-wild-77
> >>6727.html
>
> >> should any of you have missed it.
>
> >As you say, a straightforward discussion of a complex issue. Personally, I
> >think it would be an excellent idea to reintroduce reindeer, lynx, wolves,
> >wolverines, beavers and brown bears into the wild in Scotland - as long as
> >they stayed there, that is :-)
>
> I can't recall his name, but several years ago there used to be someone
> very keen indeed on introducing wolves to Scotland - always writing to
> the press about it - who lived in Oxfordshire(1), which I always thought
> could be regarded as a nice safe distance :-))

Did you not read Farley Mowatt on the nature of the wolves that he
spent a summer living next to? His account would suggest that threats
to people are minimal - you've probably a better chance of being
killed by a hungry Range Rover ;-)

> (1) He may still do - he ran some kind of Wolf reintroduction society, I
> think.

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 17:51:28 +0000, Malcolm
 wrote:

>
>In article , BAC 
> writes
>>
>>"John M."  wrote in message
>>news:87bc9eda-a356-4b24-81a4-09676d1595cc@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>>>
>>> 
>>>http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-should
>>>-animals-that-have-died-out-in-britain-be-reintroduced-into-the-wild-77
>>>6727.html
>>>
>>> should any of you have missed it.
>>
>>As you say, a straightforward discussion of a complex issue. Personally, I
>>think it would be an excellent idea to reintroduce reindeer, lynx, wolves,
>>wolverines, beavers and brown bears into the wild in Scotland - as long as
>>they stayed there, that is :-)
>>
>>
>I can't recall his name, but several years ago there used to be someone 
>very keen indeed on introducing wolves to Scotland - always writing to 
>the press about it - who lived in Oxfordshire(1), which I always thought 
>could be regarded as a nice safe distance :-))
>
>(1) He may still do - he ran some kind of Wolf reintroduction society, I 
>think.


Over twenty years ago there was someone in Argyll  breeding wolves and
had a large enclosure for them.  However, someone cut the fences and
they escaped and were shot.

At least that was what I was told.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

"Malcolm"  wrote in message 
news:Xmpnjtkg2KpHFwPI@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>
> In article , BAC 
>  writes
>>
>>"John M."  wrote in message
>>news:87bc9eda-a356-4b24-81a4-09676d1595cc@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> Straightforward discussion of the issue at:
>>>
>>> http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-big-question-should
>>>-animals-that-have-died-out-in-britain-be-reintroduced-into-the-wild-77
>>>6727.html
>>>
>>> should any of you have missed it.
>>
>>As you say, a straightforward discussion of a complex issue. Personally, I
>>think it would be an excellent idea to reintroduce reindeer, lynx, wolves,
>>wolverines, beavers and brown bears into the wild in Scotland - as long as
>>they stayed there, that is :-)
>>
>>
> I can't recall his name, but several years ago there used to be someone 
> very keen indeed on introducing wolves to Scotland - always writing to the 
> press about it - who lived in Oxfordshire(1), which I always thought could 
> be regarded as a nice safe distance :-))
>
> (1) He may still do - he ran some kind of Wolf reintroduction society, I 
> think.
>

Do you mean the late Roger Palmer? I thought he used to be based in 
Berkshire ...