Would you risk the life of your child by going to visit a bird
reserve?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7181384.stm


" It's all a big shock. No-one expected it to come round here"
said  John Houston, Abbotsbury Swannery.


"Staff entering the site were wearing protective suits, and removing
them and disinfecting themselves on leaving." 


This could happen at any bird reserve in the country.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

In article , 
amacmil304@aol.com writes
>Would you risk the life of your child by going to visit a bird
>reserve?
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7181384.stm
>
>
>" It's all a big shock. No-one expected it to come round here"
>said  John Houston, Abbotsbury Swannery.
>
>
>"Staff entering the site were wearing protective suits, and removing
>them and disinfecting themselves on leaving."
>
>
>This could happen at any bird reserve in the country.
>
>
Yawn, yawn, yawn

Angus is off again, raising hares where none exist, telling people to 
stay away from bird reserves, not for any altruistic reason but solely 
as part of his anti-conservation vendetta.

Last time he tried this on, he had to be told that there was far more 
contact between people and birds, especially wildfowl, in town parks 
throughout the country than ever there is at bird reserves. However, the 
truth didn't suit his agenda, so he has, predictably, ignored it in 
favour of his scaremongering fiction.

Just how dishonest can this man get?


-- 
Malcolm

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:56:01 +0000, Malcolm
 wrote:

>
>In article , 
>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>Would you risk the life of your child by going to visit a bird
>>reserve?
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7181384.stm
>>
>>
>>" It's all a big shock. No-one expected it to come round here"
>>said  John Houston, Abbotsbury Swannery.
>>
>>
>>"Staff entering the site were wearing protective suits, and removing
>>them and disinfecting themselves on leaving."
>>
>>
>>This could happen at any bird reserve in the country.
>>
>>
>Yawn, yawn, yawn
>
>Angus is off again, raising hares where none exist, telling people to 
>stay away from bird reserves, not for any altruistic reason but solely 
>as part of his anti-conservation vendetta.

So you don't care about the safety of the public?  That figures. You
have opposed fences at steep drops where kids can get killed

>
>Last time he tried this on, he had to be told that there was far more 
>contact between people and birds, especially wildfowl, in town parks 
>throughout the country than ever there is at bird reserves. However, the 
>truth didn't suit his agenda, so he has, predictably, ignored it in 
>favour of his scaremongering fiction.

Many in parks are resident birds but the incoming wildfowl in reserves
can be tens of thousands if not more.

The more birds the greater the risk.

And these guys are all running about in white suits at a reserve which
was open to the public a couple of days ago.  Perhaps you can tell us
where H5N1 is going to strike next?

>
>Just how dishonest can this man get?

It's you who's dishonest.  Money before safety:-((






Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

In article , 
amacmil304@aol.com writes
>On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:56:01 +0000, Malcolm
> wrote:
>
>>
>>In article ,
>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>Would you risk the life of your child by going to visit a bird
>>>reserve?
>>>
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7181384.stm
>>>
>>>
>>>" It's all a big shock. No-one expected it to come round here"
>>>said  John Houston, Abbotsbury Swannery.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Staff entering the site were wearing protective suits, and removing
>>>them and disinfecting themselves on leaving."
>>>
>>>
>>>This could happen at any bird reserve in the country.
>>>
>>>
>>Yawn, yawn, yawn
>>
>>Angus is off again, raising hares where none exist, telling people to
>>stay away from bird reserves, not for any altruistic reason but solely
>>as part of his anti-conservation vendetta.
>
>So you don't care about the safety of the public?  That figures.

And you have consistently refused to warn the public not to take their 
children into public paths where they can feed birds by hand and walk on 
the grass among their droppings. And you haven't for the sole reason 
that they are not bird reserves and therefore fall outside your 
obsession with conservation organisations. You therefore don't care 
about the safety of the public.

> You
>have opposed fences at steep drops where kids can get killed
>
That's because your ideas about fences are totally impractical and come 
solely from your obsession with conservation organisations.

>>
>>Last time he tried this on, he had to be told that there was far more
>>contact between people and birds, especially wildfowl, in town parks
>>throughout the country than ever there is at bird reserves. However, the
>>truth didn't suit his agenda, so he has, predictably, ignored it in
>>favour of his scaremongering fiction.
>
>Many in parks are resident birds but the incoming wildfowl in reserves
>can be tens of thousands if not more.
>
But not in close contact with people.

>The more birds the greater the risk.
>
Utter nonsense because the birds are not in close contact with people. 
You know perfectly well that the only way avian flu can be transmitted 
to humans is by *close* contact.

>And these guys are all running about in white suits at a reserve which
>was open to the public a couple of days ago.

Wrong. Completely wrong. Nothing unusual coming from you, of course, but 
it does make one wonder whether it is an inability to read and absorb 
facts on your part or a deliberate lie. I know which I think it is.

As accurately stated in, e.g., the Daily Mail and several other sources:

It is a seasonal tourist attraction which closed to the public on 
October 28 last year and is due to reopen on March 15.

>  Perhaps you can tell us
>where H5N1 is going to strike next?
>
No. Nor can anyone.

>>
>>Just how dishonest can this man get?
>
>It's you who's dishonest.  Money before safety:-((
>
You gloat when someone dies in an accident. That is truly despicable.

-- 
Malcolm

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:58:45 +0000, Malcolm
 wrote:

>
>In article , 
>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:56:01 +0000, Malcolm
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>In article ,
>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>Would you risk the life of your child by going to visit a bird
>>>>reserve?
>>>>
>>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7181384.stm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>" It's all a big shock. No-one expected it to come round here"
>>>>said  John Houston, Abbotsbury Swannery.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Staff entering the site were wearing protective suits, and removing
>>>>them and disinfecting themselves on leaving."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This could happen at any bird reserve in the country.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Yawn, yawn, yawn
>>>
>>>Angus is off again, raising hares where none exist, telling people to
>>>stay away from bird reserves, not for any altruistic reason but solely
>>>as part of his anti-conservation vendetta.
>>
>>So you don't care about the safety of the public?  That figures.
>
>And you have consistently refused to warn the public not to take their 
>children into public paths where they can feed birds by hand and walk on 
>the grass among their droppings. And you haven't for the sole reason 
>that they are not bird reserves and therefore fall outside your 
>obsession with conservation organisations. You therefore don't care 
>about the safety of the public.
>

I thought you said birds didn't go on to paths on reserves. Do they
only go on to paths where you tell them?  

>> You
>>have opposed fences at steep drops where kids can get killed
>>
>That's because your ideas about fences are totally impractical and come 
>solely from your obsession with conservation organisations.
>

They're not totally impractical.  I'm sure I know a company that could
erect them wherever they're needed.

>>>
>>>Last time he tried this on, he had to be told that there was far more
>>>contact between people and birds, especially wildfowl, in town parks
>>>throughout the country than ever there is at bird reserves. However, the
>>>truth didn't suit his agenda, so he has, predictably, ignored it in
>>>favour of his scaremongering fiction.
>>
>>Many in parks are resident birds but the incoming wildfowl in reserves
>>can be tens of thousands if not more.
>>
>But not in close contact with people.
>

Of course they can be.  They've closed the reserve to the public for
that very reason.

>>The more birds the greater the risk.
>>
>Utter nonsense because the birds are not in close contact with people. 
>You know perfectly well that the only way avian flu can be transmitted 
>to humans is by *close* contact.

Or dropping on pathways.


>
>>And these guys are all running about in white suits at a reserve which
>>was open to the public a couple of days ago.
>
>Wrong. Completely wrong. Nothing unusual coming from you, of course, but 
>it does make one wonder whether it is an inability to read and absorb 
>facts on your part or a deliberate lie. I know which I think it is.
>

No Malcolm. If you buy a season ticket, it enables you to visit the
swannery over 12 months.

And:  "staff entering the site were wearing protective suits, and
removing them and disinfecting themselves on leaving"

So there must be a risk.. 



>As accurately stated in, e.g., the Daily Mail and several other sources:
>
>It is a seasonal tourist attraction which closed to the public on 
>October 28 last year and is due to reopen on March 15.
>

See above.  And you tell ME not to believe what's in the papers.


>>  Perhaps you can tell us
>>where H5N1 is going to strike next?
>>
>No. Nor can anyone.
>

Quite.


>>>
>>>Just how dishonest can this man get?
>>
>>It's you who's dishonest.  Money before safety:-((
>>
>You gloat when someone dies in an accident. That is truly despicable.

Not at all.  I think something should be done about safety by those
who invite the public into areas that have steep drops.

What's truly despicable is that you don't want money spent that can
save lives.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident. 
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

In message , 
amacmil304@aol.com writes
>Would you risk the life of your child by going to visit a bird
>reserve?
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7181384.stm
>
>
>" It's all a big shock. No-one expected it to come round here"
>said  John Houston, Abbotsbury Swannery.
>
>
>"Staff entering the site were wearing protective suits, and removing
>them and disinfecting themselves on leaving."
>
>
>This could happen at any bird reserve in the country.
>
Casual readers please note Angus has no concept of what reserves are 
like.  He has been told many times that for a human to catch avian flu 
they need to be in **very** close contact for prolonged periods.

Hence the fact the staff at a swannery have to take precautions. 
However visitors to ordinary reserves have no more to fear than they do 
in their own garden or the local park.
-- 
Malcolm Kane

In message , 
amacmil304@aol.com writes
>On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:56:01 +0000, Malcolm
> wrote:
>
>>
>>In article ,
>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>Would you risk the life of your child by going to visit a bird
>>>reserve?
>>>
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7181384.stm
>>>
>>>
>>>" It's all a big shock. No-one expected it to come round here"
>>>said  John Houston, Abbotsbury Swannery.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Staff entering the site were wearing protective suits, and removing
>>>them and disinfecting themselves on leaving."
>>>
>>>
>>>This could happen at any bird reserve in the country.
>>>
>>>
>>Yawn, yawn, yawn
>>
>>Angus is off again, raising hares where none exist, telling people to
>>stay away from bird reserves, not for any altruistic reason but solely
>>as part of his anti-conservation vendetta.
>
>So you don't care about the safety of the public?  That figures. You
>have opposed fences at steep drops where kids can get killed

This for the casual reader show Angus pushing his vendetta using false 
statements and disinformation.  Anyone can search the Internet and see 
that to catch the disease you need prolonged close contact with birds. 
Something you don't get on a reserve.

Angus carefully ignores all the information which is pointed out to him 
and tries this panic mongering every time avian flu is in the news.

It is all part of his mindless vendetta against conservation.  The 
hatred he has for conservation seems to blind him to the facts every 
time.

>
>>
>>Last time he tried this on, he had to be told that there was far more
>>contact between people and birds, especially wildfowl, in town parks
>>throughout the country than ever there is at bird reserves. However, the
>>truth didn't suit his agenda, so he has, predictably, ignored it in
>>favour of his scaremongering fiction.
>
>Many in parks are resident birds but the incoming wildfowl in reserves
>can be tens of thousands if not more.

This is exactly what I am drawing your attention casual reader.  Angus 
in his blinkered vendetta seems to think that all the birds on the local 
pond park are resident not migrant.

I am not sure how he explains the 18 Barnacle Geese which appeared on 
the Caldbeck pond one winter (in the centre of the village).

>
>The more birds the greater the risk.

The loser and more prolonged the contact the greater the risk.

Angus is unable to admit that in your local park you are nearer to birds 
for longer than you are on a reserve.

Consider when you last saw a toddler using a telescope or binoculars to 
see the ducks they were feeding in the park   :-))))))

>
>And these guys are all running about in white suits at a reserve which
>was open to the public a couple of days ago.  Perhaps you can tell us
>where H5N1 is going to strike next?

You can watch how Angus carefully omits detail and twists things.  Of 
course the staff are protecting themselves they have close and prolonged 
contact with the birds.

Closing the infected reserve is a sensible precaution however there is 
no need to avoid reserves as the public do not get prolonged close 
contact.

>
>>
>>Just how dishonest can this man get?
>
>It's you who's dishonest.  Money before safety:-((
>
In view of the facts above I will allow casual readers to make up their 
own minds about the honesty of Angus and for that matter Malcolm.  Just 
take a few minutes to google about avian flu and read a little of the 
facts.
-- 
Malcolm Kane

In message , Malcolm 
 writes
>
>In article , 
>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>Would you risk the life of your child by going to visit a bird
>>reserve?
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7181384.stm
>>
>>
>>" It's all a big shock. No-one expected it to come round here"
>>said  John Houston, Abbotsbury Swannery.
>>
>>
>>"Staff entering the site were wearing protective suits, and removing
>>them and disinfecting themselves on leaving."
>>
>>
>>This could happen at any bird reserve in the country.
>>
>>
>Yawn, yawn, yawn
>
>Angus is off again, raising hares where none exist, telling people to 
>stay away from bird reserves, not for any altruistic reason but solely 
>as part of his anti-conservation vendetta.
>
>Last time he tried this on, he had to be told that there was far more 
>contact between people and birds, especially wildfowl, in town parks 
>throughout the country than ever there is at bird reserves. However, 
>the truth didn't suit his agenda, so he has, predictably, ignored it in 
>favour of his scaremongering fiction.
>
>Just how dishonest can this man get?
>
>
Come on Malcolm you know that Angus will take any chance he gets to 
invent something to try to push his vendetta against conservation.
-- 
Malcolm Kane

In message , 
amacmil304@aol.com writes
>On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:58:45 +0000, Malcolm
> wrote:
>
>>
>>In article ,
>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:56:01 +0000, Malcolm
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>In article ,
>>>>amacmil304@aol.com writes
>>>>>Would you risk the life of your child by going to visit a bird
>>>>>reserve?
>>>>>
>>>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7181384.stm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>" It's all a big shock. No-one expected it to come round here"
>>>>>said  John Houston, Abbotsbury Swannery.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Staff entering the site were wearing protective suits, and removing
>>>>>them and disinfecting themselves on leaving."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>This could happen at any bird reserve in the country.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Yawn, yawn, yawn
>>>>
>>>>Angus is off again, raising hares where none exist, telling people to
>>>>stay away from bird reserves, not for any altruistic reason but solely
>>>>as part of his anti-conservation vendetta.
>>>
>>>So you don't care about the safety of the public?  That figures.
>>
>>And you have consistently refused to warn the public not to take their
>>children into public paths where they can feed birds by hand and walk on
>>the grass among their droppings. And you haven't for the sole reason
>>that they are not bird reserves and therefore fall outside your
>>obsession with conservation organisations. You therefore don't care
>>about the safety of the public.
>>
>
>I thought you said birds didn't go on to paths on reserves. Do they
>only go on to paths where you tell them?


Yet another example of the ignorance of the fact Angus can show. Anyone 
who has visited a reserve knows that in the cast majority of cases the 
waterfowl (which is what has always been the type of bird under 
discussion) tend to not get chance to go onto paths as they are screened 
and tend to be quite narrow.
>
>>> You
>>>have opposed fences at steep drops where kids can get killed
>>>
>>That's because your ideas about fences are totally impractical and come
>>solely from your obsession with conservation organisations.
>>
>
>They're not totally impractical.  I'm sure I know a company that could
>erect them wherever they're needed.

Angus would you like to get them to quote for fencing every crag in 
England and Wales.  Then you might get some idea of how impractical it 
is.

Oh sorry I forgot you won't realise that in an area like the Lakes the 
public wander at will all over the fells.

>
>>>>
>>>>Last time he tried this on, he had to be told that there was far more
>>>>contact between people and birds, especially wildfowl, in town parks
>>>>throughout the country than ever there is at bird reserves. However, the
>>>>truth didn't suit his agenda, so he has, predictably, ignored it in
>>>>favour of his scaremongering fiction.
>>>
>>>Many in parks are resident birds but the incoming wildfowl in reserves
>>>can be tens of thousands if not more.
>>>
>>But not in close contact with people.
>>
>
>Of course they can be.  They've closed the reserve to the public for
>that very reason.

NO they have closed the reserve for a number of reasons.  One is so that 
panic monger like you can't wet their knickers in panic.  There is also 
the risk that public might spread the virus to other places ***NOT*** 
that they personally might catch the disease.

Notice if you challenge Anus as to where he got the fact that the 
reserve is closed because the birds come in close contact with the 
birds.

The answer you will get is not a reference to a news item or a statement 
from the authorities but the statement "Its self evident".

This roughly translated means I don't have any evidence and to admit it
would weaken my argument.

>
>>>The more birds the greater the risk.
>>>
>>Utter nonsense because the birds are not in close contact with people.
>>You know perfectly well that the only way avian flu can be transmitted
>>to humans is by *close* contact.
>
>Or dropping on pathways.

Notice if Anus is genuinely concerned about droppings on pathways he 
would be warning people that they were most likely to come in contact 
with droppings in parks and round public ponds.

>
>
>>
>>>And these guys are all running about in white suits at a reserve which
>>>was open to the public a couple of days ago.
>>
>>Wrong. Completely wrong. Nothing unusual coming from you, of course, but
>>it does make one wonder whether it is an inability to read and absorb
>>facts on your part or a deliberate lie. I know which I think it is.
>>
>
>No Malcolm. If you buy a season ticket, it enables you to visit the
>swannery over 12 months.
>
>And:  "staff entering the site were wearing protective suits, and
>removing them and disinfecting themselves on leaving"
>
>So there must be a risk..

What a clever boy.  If he wasn't in total denial about the facts he 
would know that they are in close prolonged contact which even members 
of the public with year tickets could get.  So yes there is a risk - to 
the staff not the public.


-- 
Malcolm Kane