Hello,

I was reading the Calor Gas FAQ at:
http://www.calorgas.co.uk/faq/which-gas.htm

It makes the interesting point that butane boils at 0 degrees Celsius,
so butane cylinders won't work in the cold. 

It also says that propane should be used for barbeques and patio
heaters. Is this for the same reason or is propane cheaper to produce?
Surely no-one would want to be under a patio heater or be barbequing
when it is freezing? Why can't butane be used?

I thought I read somewhere on the same site that only butane can be
used and stored indoors and that propane can only be used indoors on a
temporary basis, e.g. a plumber's blow torch. Is there a safety reason
for this? Is propane inherently more dangerous? Why?

I presume that is why indoor heaters have to use butane? That can't be
helpful if the temperature drops to freezing! I guess you have to turn
the heater on before it gets that cold. That said, are such heaters
recommended? I thought that for domestic use they cause condensation
issues and didn't someone die from poisoning (carbon monoxide)?
Probably best to use a fan heater if possible?

Thanks in advance.

Stephen submitted this idea :
> Hello,
>
> I was reading the Calor Gas FAQ at:
> http://www.calorgas.co.uk/faq/which-gas.htm
>
> It makes the interesting point that butane boils at 0 degrees Celsius,
> so butane cylinders won't work in the cold.

It actually becomes unusable  a little above its boiling temperature, 
but as it boils to vapour it draws off some of its heat. Which is why 
you sometimes see ice forming on bottles which are in heavy use.

>
> It also says that propane should be used for barbeques and patio
> heaters. Is this for the same reason or is propane cheaper to produce?
> Surely no-one would want to be under a patio heater or be barbequing
> when it is freezing? Why can't butane be used?

See above.

>
> I thought I read somewhere on the same site that only butane can be
> used and stored indoors and that propane can only be used indoors on a
> temporary basis, e.g. a plumber's blow torch. Is there a safety reason
> for this? Is propane inherently more dangerous? Why?

Pass.

>
> I presume that is why indoor heaters have to use butane? That can't be
> helpful if the temperature drops to freezing! I guess you have to turn
> the heater on before it gets that cold. That said, are such heaters
> recommended? I thought that for domestic use they cause condensation
> issues and didn't someone die from poisoning (carbon monoxide)?

They need good ventilation and yes they do produce lots of vapour.

> Probably best to use a fan heater if possible?

Yes. Not much difference in price of fuel and you do not need good 
ventilation to use a fan heater - much safer.

-- 
Regards,
        Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:39:21 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

> They need good ventilation and yes they do produce lots of vapour.

Each kg of gas burnt produces a kg of water. But a kg of gas yields
quite a bit of energy. 10kW springs or there abouts springs to mind
so a fire running at a couple of kWhr output isn't a great generator
of moisture, a cup full/hour ish.

>> Probably best to use a fan heater if possible?
> 
> Yes. Not much difference in price of fuel and you do not need good 
> ventilation to use a fan heater - much safer.

Fan heaters don't work during a power cut... That is why we have a
portable gas fire.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

Stephen wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I was reading the Calor Gas FAQ at:
> http://www.calorgas.co.uk/faq/which-gas.htm
> 
> It makes the interesting point that butane boils at 0 degrees Celsius,
> so butane cylinders won't work in the cold. 
> 
> It also says that propane should be used for barbeques and patio
> heaters. Is this for the same reason or is propane cheaper to produce?
> Surely no-one would want to be under a patio heater or be barbequing
> when it is freezing? Why can't butane be used?

At high flows the cylinder will fall in temperature until there is 
insufficient boiler (hence pressure) to drive the supply of gas.

> I thought I read somewhere on the same site that only butane can be
> used and stored indoors and that propane can only be used indoors on a
> temporary basis, e.g. a plumber's blow torch. Is there a safety reason
> for this? Is propane inherently more dangerous? Why?

You need to take extra care with butane or propane. Both are heavier 
than air and hence can pool in low spaces rather than dispersing.

> I presume that is why indoor heaters have to use butane? That can't be
> helpful if the temperature drops to freezing! I guess you have to turn

Remember the latent heat of vaporisation that is required  to change the 
state from liquid to gas will consume significant energy. That has tom 
come from somewhere - typically the immediate surroundings of the 
cylinder. Hence it will get colder than ambient quite quickly.

> the heater on before it gets that cold. That said, are such heaters
> recommended? I thought that for domestic use they cause condensation
> issues and didn't someone die from poisoning (carbon monoxide)?
> Probably best to use a fan heater if possible?

Combustion of any hydro-carbon will produce water - so some ventilation 
is required. With an appropriate flue much of the water will be expelled 
with the flue gases.

CO production can happen with a gas heater where there is insufficient 
air for complete combustion (often recognised by a yellow flame). 
However this is not a reason to not use it - just a reason to make sure 
it is working and maintained correctly.

-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

Stephen wrote:

> Surely no-one would want to be under a patio heater or be barbequing
> when it is freezing?

We had a BBQ when it snowed if February...

Guy
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson@SMTP - gnues@cuillin.org.uk // ICBM - 6.15.16W 57.12.23N 986M
4.4>5.4 4.4>5.4 4.4>5.4 The Reality Check's in the Post! 4.4>5.4 4.4>5.4

On Oct 30, 12:19 am, "Dave Liquorice" 
wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:39:21 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> > They need good ventilation and yes they do produce lots of vapour.
>
> Each kg of gas burnt produces a kg of water.

Interesting, I hadn't thought of it like that. In fact, it makes more
than 1kg of water:

C3H8  5 O2 => 3 CO2  4 H2O

propane has Mol Wt. 44
4 H2O has   Mol Wt  4* 18 = 72

So 44 grams of propane make 72 grams of water

So 1kg propane makes 72/44 = 1.6 kg water

Robert

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:12:20 -0700 (PDT), RobertL wrote:

> Interesting, I hadn't thought of it like that. In fact, it makes more
> than 1kg of water:
> 
> C3H8 + 5 O2 => 3 CO2 + 4 H2O

Except most portable gas fires burn butane.  B-)

2C4H10 + 13 O2 -> 8 CO2 + 10 H2O

So produce 1.55kg water/kg butane.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 00:19:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
 wrote:

>Each kg of gas burnt produces a kg of water. But a kg of gas yields
>quite a bit of energy. 10kW springs or there abouts springs to mind
>so a fire running at a couple of kWhr output isn't a great generator
>of moisture, a cup full/hour ish.

Thanks. I've not got or used a butane heater, so my remarks about
condensation were based on what I had read. I thought that some old
posts here had said you needed to run them with the windows open to
provide the necessary ventilation to prevent condensation and
incomplete combustion, and if the window was open it defeated the
point of having a heater on. Perhaps concerns about condensation have
been exaggerated?

>Fan heaters don't work during a power cut... That is why we have a
>portable gas fire.

I was wondering about getting a gas fire for power cuts and I suppose
that's what started me reading up about this. However, I don't know if
we have power cuts often enough to justify this. But I thought that
the preferred method in this group was to hook the boiler up to a
generator or inverter?

Thanks.

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:25:51 +0000, John Rumm
 wrote:

>Combustion of any hydro-carbon will produce water - so some ventilation 
>is required. With an appropriate flue much of the water will be expelled 
>with the flue gases.

Sorry, I was thinking about portable heaters such as:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delonghi-Flame-Portable-Calor-Heater/dp/B001LS0QCC

which don't have a flue.

I'm still puzzled why these use butane and everything else used
propane though. Particularly if butane doesn't work at temperatures
around freezing, which is when you are most likely to need to use the
heater?

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:27:26 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> I thought that some old posts here had said you needed to run them with 
> the windows open to provide the necessary ventilation to prevent 
> condensation and incomplete combustion, 

Depends on how air tight your house is (tents/caravans I suspect are
not very airtight). A modern, heavyly insulated, double glazed, box
without a chimney and a room sealed boiler may benefit from having
all the trickle vents opened. But older properties, assuming they
don't suffer condensation normally, it's probably not a issue.

> I was wondering about getting a gas fire for power cuts and I suppose
> that's what started me reading up about this. However, I don't know if
> we have power cuts often enough to justify this. But I thought that
> the preferred method in this group was to hook the boiler up to a
> generator or inverter?

We have a gen set as well.  B-)  Our power is pretty good but if it
does go off for more than a second or two it may well be off for 6
hours or longer. We are also on our own 11kV spur and our own
transformer. Some of the poles that support the line are at
"interesting" angles. If one of those, or the line, took a fall
during a storm I suspect we would be at the bottom of the list to get
repaired and back on grid being just a single customer. 

The gen set is mainly to keep the freezers and fridges running though
the power to the CH/HW system does go through a 13A plug (3A fuse) so
it can be powered from the generator if required.

> I'm still puzzled why these use butane and everything else used
> propane though. Particularly if butane doesn't work at temperatures
> around freezing, which is when you are most likely to need to use the
> heater?

You must be rather hardier than us if you can live in a house
approaching freezing... The bedrooms can get down to 12C during a
windy night middle of winter and that is cool enough thank you. Our
normal living room temp of 18C is more than warm enough to vaporise
butane fast enough to drive a fire.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

Stephen wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:25:51 +0000, John Rumm
>  wrote:
> 
>> Combustion of any hydro-carbon will produce water - so some ventilation 
>> is required. With an appropriate flue much of the water will be expelled 
>> with the flue gases.
> 
> Sorry, I was thinking about portable heaters such as:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delonghi-Flame-Portable-Calor-Heater/dp/B001LS0QCC
> 
> which don't have a flue.

The power output is low enough for it not to be a major hazard as long 
as the room has ventilation.

> I'm still puzzled why these use butane and everything else used
> propane though. Particularly if butane doesn't work at temperatures
> around freezing, which is when you are most likely to need to use the
> heater?

Presumably you use it before it gets to freezing, and a warmish room 
should provide enough heat to keep the butane boiling. I have not 
checked, but you may find butane is cheaper as well (being lower heat 
output and less flexible in use due to the higher boiling point)


-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

"Stephen"  wrote in message 
news:5a8ke51ktj2kr67kvidia31rvtgtttnrkh@4ax.com...
> Hello,
>
> I was reading the Calor Gas FAQ at:
> http://www.calorgas.co.uk/faq/which-gas.htm
>
> It makes the interesting point that butane boils at 0 degrees Celsius,
> so butane cylinders won't work in the cold.
>
> It also says that propane should be used for barbeques and patio
> heaters. Is this for the same reason or is propane cheaper to produce?
> Surely no-one would want to be under a patio heater or be barbequing
> when it is freezing? Why can't butane be used?

As others have explained butane becomes ineffectice well before the ambient 
air reaches 0C as the state change from liquid to gas consumes energy so the 
liquid cools below the temperature of the ambient air.

> I thought I read somewhere on the same site that only butane can be
> used and stored indoors and that propane can only be used indoors on a
> temporary basis, e.g. a plumber's blow torch. Is there a safety reason
> for this? Is propane inherently more dangerous? Why?

Yes.  Propane has a higher vapour pressure so is more likely to 
leak/decompress at a given temperature.  That's a particularly important 
consideration when using gas in say a camper van where it might be subjected 
to extreemes of temperature.

> I presume that is why indoor heaters have to use butane? That can't be
> helpful if the temperature drops to freezing! I guess you have to turn
> the heater on before it gets that cold. That said, are such heaters
> recommended? I thought that for domestic use they cause condensation
> issues and didn't someone die from poisoning (carbon monoxide)?
> Probably best to use a fan heater if possible?
>

I recall once camping in South Wales in December with a university canoeing 
club where the butane cylinders we were using were only producing a tiny 
flame.  We balanced one on top of the other to heat it up and make it 
useful...

I remember reading that burning propane yields 21,000 BTU 
per pound. Not sure about butane. Much the same, I'd guess.

-- 
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  www.lds.org
.


"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in 
message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.ksbat80.pminews@srv1.howhill.co.uk...

Each kg of gas burnt produces a kg of water. But a kg of gas 
yields
quite a bit of energy. 10kW springs or there abouts springs 
to mind
so a fire running at a couple of kWhr output isn't a great 
generator
of moisture, a cup full/hour ish.

The generator makes more noise, and attracts attention. The 
inverter, well, if you have a good supply of lead acid 
batteries, can work. I'm guessing a portable heater and a 
couple canister of gas are less money than the generator. 
Also doesn't need to call a worker to do the wiring.

-- 
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  www.lds.org
.


"Stephen"  wrote in message 
news:l61me5pb48i1ulhvesbjbig2gr4ctg296p@4ax.com...

I was wondering about getting a gas fire for power cuts and 
I suppose
that's what started me reading up about this. However, I 
don't know if
we have power cuts often enough to justify this. But I 
thought that
the preferred method in this group was to hook the boiler up 
to a
generator or inverter?

Thanks.

Some mysteries will never be answered. Freezing 
temperatures, and butane not working. Seasickness pills that 
get soggy when stored on a life boat. Who can tell?

-- 
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  www.lds.org
.


"Stephen"  wrote in message 
news:hf1me5t41pr5pch7avo3955gthbmmdqie4@4ax.com...

I'm still puzzled why these use butane and everything else 
used
propane though. Particularly if butane doesn't work at 
temperatures
around freezing, which is when you are most likely to need 
to use the
heater?

"Calvin Sambrook"  wrote in message 
news:hcfk2s$gdv$1@news.eternal-september.org...

> I recall once camping in South Wales in December with a university 
> canoeing club where the butane cylinders we were using were only producing 
> a tiny flame.  We balanced one on top of the other to heat it up and make 
> it useful...

For the tiny camping ones, putting the cylinder in the pan of water you're 
boiling works well. And aren't lots of them propane/butane mix these days? 
'course a petrol stove works whatever temperature :-)

I remember similar games with butane cylinders in static caravans (cheap 
caving accomodation) - fortunately they had an electric kettle, so boiling 
water on the cylinder was used to great effect.

In message <hcftrd$i1d$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Stormin Mormon 
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> writes

Top posting jesus mong ...

You put your reply, including sig sep above the previous post, so it 
disappears from the reply

Go look at the alpha course, and partake in the survey

http://uk.alpha.org/



>The generator makes more noise, and attracts attention. The
>inverter, well, if you have a good supply of lead acid
>batteries, can work. I'm guessing a portable heater and a
>couple canister of gas are less money than the generator.
>Also doesn't need to call a worker to do the wiring.
>
-- 
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
   www.lds.org
.


"Stephen"  wrote in message
news:l61me5pb48i1ulhvesbjbig2gr4ctg296p@4ax.com...

I was wondering about getting a gas fire for power cuts and
I suppose
that's what started me reading up about this. However, I
don't know if
we have power cuts often enough to justify this. But I
thought that
the preferred method in this group was to hook the boiler up
to a
generator or inverter?

Thanks.

-- 
geoff

In message <hcftrf$i1d$2@news.eternal-september.org>, Stormin Mormon 
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> writes
>Some mysteries will never be answered. Freezing
>temperatures, and butane not working. Seasickness pills that
>get soggy when stored on a life boat. Who can tell?
>

Who is this clueless twat ?


-- 
geoff

Calvin Sambrook :
>I recall once camping in South Wales in December with a university
>canoeing club where the butane cylinders we were using were only
>producing a tiny flame.  We balanced one on top of the other to heat it
>up and make it useful...

Sounds familiar. I remember camping in Scotland and keeping the butane
cylinder in the bottom of my sleeping bag to ensure a hot cup of tea in
the morning. Even so it was a bit slow, so I placed the (large, hose-
connected) cylinder on top of the pan.

-- 
Mike Barnes

On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:47:58 -0000, Clive George wrote:

> "Calvin Sambrook"  wrote in message 
> news:hcfk2s$gdv$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> 
>> I recall once camping in South Wales in December with a university 
>> canoeing club where the butane cylinders we were using were only producing 
>> a tiny flame.  We balanced one on top of the other to heat it up and make 
>> it useful...
> 
> For the tiny camping ones, putting the cylinder in the pan of water you're 
> boiling works well. And aren't lots of them propane/butane mix these days? 
> 'course a petrol stove works whatever temperature :-)
> 
> I remember similar games with butane cylinders in static caravans (cheap 
> caving accomodation) - fortunately they had an electric kettle, so boiling 
> water on the cylinder was used to great effect.

In our hut near Capel Curig we were cooking breakfast on 1 burner with the
butane cylinder on the other burner (I put it there). Some alarm re.
possible explosion until I pointed out that the ice on the side meant that
the cylinder might be cool.
-- 
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

Don't need the survey. I've been an atheist, and now I'm a 
Christian.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  www.lds.org
.


"geoff"  wrote in message 
news:+Z6sAbZdm46KFwFZ@demon.co.uk...
In message <hcftrd$i1d$1@news.eternal-september.org>, 
Stormin Mormon

Top posting jesus mong ...

You put your reply, including sig sep above the previous 
post, so it
disappears from the reply

Go look at the alpha course, and partake in the survey

http://uk.alpha.org/

You English have such fine manners.

-- 
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  www.lds.org
.


"geoff"  wrote in message 
news:252uI8Zvn46KFwmX@demon.co.uk...
In message <hcftrf$i1d$2@news.eternal-september.org>, 
Stormin Mormon
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> writes
>Some mysteries will never be answered. Freezing
>temperatures, and butane not working. Seasickness pills 
>that
>get soggy when stored on a life boat. Who can tell?
>

Who is this clueless twat ?


-- 
geoff

In message <hcid1s$aqv$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Stormin Mormon 
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> writes
>Don't need the survey. I've been an atheist, and now I'm a
>Christian.
>



You're a top poster

And they all go to hell


>
>

-- 
geoff

Right next to people who install Gatsos?

-- 
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  www.lds.org
.


"geoff"  wrote in message 
news:VLMGkyfDnL7KFwYj@demon.co.uk...
In message <hcid1s$aqv$1@news.eternal-september.org>, 
Stormin Mormon
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> writes
>Don't need the survey. I've been an atheist, and now I'm a
>Christian.
>



You're a top poster

And they all go to hell


>
>

-- 
geoff

Don't wind geoff up about Gatsos, its much better if they are Specs or 
mobile police speed vans that aren't marked.
And don't top post as it upsets him more.

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:hcii0v$ger$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Right next to people who install Gatsos?
>
> -- 
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
>  www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> "geoff"  wrote in message
> news:VLMGkyfDnL7KFwYj@demon.co.uk...
> In message <hcid1s$aqv$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Stormin Mormon
> <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> writes
>>Don't need the survey. I've been an atheist, and now I'm a
>>Christian.
>>
>
>
>
> You're a top poster
>
> And they all go to hell
>
>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> geoff
>
>

In message <hcii0v$ger$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Stormin Mormon 
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> writes
>Right next to people who install Gatsos?

No - forced to sit inbetween drivel and dennis for eternity




>
>--
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn more about Jesus
>  www.lds.org
>.
>
>
>"geoff"  wrote in message
>news:VLMGkyfDnL7KFwYj@demon.co.uk...
>In message <hcid1s$aqv$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
>Stormin Mormon
><cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> writes
>>Don't need the survey. I've been an atheist, and now I'm a
>>Christian.
>>
>
>
>
>You're a top poster
>
>And they all go to hell
>
>
>>
>>
>

-- 
geoff

On 31 Oct, 23:59, "dennis@home"  wrote:
> Don't wind geoff up about Gatsos, its much better if they are Specs or
> mobile police speed vans that aren't marked.
> And don't top post as it upsets him more.
so what!! thestuped cunt only mend's fans for a living what dus he
fuckin nkow.fukintwat
>
> > "geoff"  wrote in message
> >news:VLMGkyfDnL7KFwYj@demon.co.uk...
> > In message <hcid1s$aq...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > Stormin Mormon
> > <cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> writes
> >>Don't need the survey. I've been an atheist, and now I'm a
> >>Christian.
>
> > You're a top poster
>
> > And they all go to hell
>
> > --
> > geoff

In message 
, 
chas  writes
>On 31 Oct, 23:59, "dennis@home"  wrote:
>> Don't wind geoff up about Gatsos, its much better if they are Specs or
>> mobile police speed vans that aren't marked.
>> And don't top post as it upsets him more.
>so what!! thestuped cunt only mend's fans for a living what dus he
>fuckin nkow.fukintwat

'Kinell - Shakespear's alive and kicking

do fuck off you clueless  retard


>>
>> > "geoff"  wrote in message
>> >news:VLMGkyfDnL7KFwYj@demon.co.uk...
>> > In message <hcid1s$aq...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> > Stormin Mormon
>> > <cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> writes
>> >>Don't need the survey. I've been an atheist, and now I'm a
>> >>Christian.
>>
>> > You're a top poster
>>
>> > And they all go to hell
>>
>> > --
>> > geoff
>

-- 
geoff

In message 
, 
chas  writes
>On 31 Oct, 23:59, "dennis@home"  wrote:
>> Don't wind geoff up about Gatsos, its much better if they are Specs or
>> mobile police speed vans that aren't marked.
>> And don't top post as it upsets him more.
>so what!! thestuped cunt only mend's fans for a living what dus he
>fuckin nkow.fukintwat
>>

I'd be really interested to know, given that your command of English is 
on par with a 12 year old

are you at school, unemployed or do you actually have a job ?

-- 
geoff

On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 02:19:32 +0000, geoff wrote:

> In message 
> , 
> chas  writes
>>On 31 Oct, 23:59, "dennis@home"  wrote:
>>> Don't wind geoff up about Gatsos, its much better if they are Specs or
>>> mobile police speed vans that aren't marked.
>>> And don't top post as it upsets him more.
>>so what!! thestuped cunt only mend's fans for a living what dus he
>>fuckin nkow.fukintwat
>>>
> 
> I'd be really interested to know, given that your command of English is 
> on par with a 12 year old
> 
> are you at school, unemployed or do you actually have a job ?

Please Geoff! That's an unwarranted insult to any 'normal' child over the
age of conception.

(@ chas: apologies for using polysyllabic words).
-- 
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

I've noticed that the English are so, totally courteous in 
all situations. Sets a good example for the world, what?

-- 
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  www.lds.org
.


"chas"  wrote in message 
news:8fcb5346-4b32-403c-a560-5f8631f01055@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

so what!! thestuped cunt only mend's fans for a living what 
dus he
fuckin nkow.fukintwat

-- 
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  www.lds.org
.


"dennis@home"  wrote in 
message news:hcij0g$kgc$1@news.datemas.de...
Don't wind geoff up about Gatsos, its much better if they 
are Specs or
mobile police speed vans that aren't marked.
And don't top post as it upsets him more.

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote 
in message
news:hcii0v$ger$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Right next to people who install Gatsos?
>
> -- 
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
>  www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> "geoff"  wrote in message
> news:VLMGkyfDnL7KFwYj@demon.co.uk...
> In message <hcid1s$aqv$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Stormin Mormon
> <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> writes
>>Don't need the survey. I've been an atheist, and now I'm a
>>Christian.
>>
>
>
>
> You're a top poster
>
> And they all go to hell
>
>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> geoff
>
>
Oops! This any better?

Eh, what? Blimey, and before tea even?

-- 
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  www.lds.org
.


"geoff"  wrote in message 
news:FCNS2SuHvO7KFwKw@demon.co.uk...

>> And don't top post as it upsets him more.
>so what!! thestuped cunt only mend's fans for a living what 
>dus he
>fuckin nkow.fukintwat

'Kinell - Shakespear's alive and kicking

do fuck off you clueless  retard

In message <hckamp$191$3@news.eternal-september.org>, Stormin Mormon 
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> writes
>Eh, what? Blimey, and before tea even?
>
And you , steaminmoron - your top posting puts everything else below you 
sig sep the "dash dash space" and so it gets deleted from future posts 
^^^ as above

learn to post properly



-- 
geoff

In message <hckamo$191$2@news.eternal-september.org>, Stormin Mormon 
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> writes
>
>


 >
 > You're a top poster
 >
 > And they all go to hell
 >

 > geoff
 >
 >
Oops! This any better?



No - because you now posted below MY sig sep

I've had to copy and paste your reply otherwise it would not show up

The place to post is either after someone's post (or interspersed if you 
are replying to specific points) and above the dash dash space which is 
the sig separator - its designed to snip what is posted beneath it so 
that a post doesn't accumulate personal crap which is part of the 
signature (like "jesus loves me" or whatever)


-- 

geoff

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> saying something like:

>The generator makes more noise, and attracts attention. The 
>inverter, well, if you have a good supply of lead acid 
>batteries, can work.

Or, just as I have done for several hours today because of a planned
maintenance outage, hook it up to a running vehicle and power the basic
essentials - TV, PC, etc.