VERY heavy. 233kg
http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/2-2130-2h-2-drawer.html#specification
It's fireproof, but god only knows what they put in it to get it to
that weight. Thank god I don't need a four-drawer one.

Two issues arise:

1) Can my floor stand it? It will be in the corner of a first floor
room with a conventional suspended floor. Victorian, so probably not
the heftiest of joists. The weight will be directly over three joists
very close to the point where they're attached to the brickwork
(rather than mid-span), and then I suppose spread to a lesser extent
over nearby joists by the floorboards. I'm thinking that it's only
like three people standing in the corner of the room, but am I fooling
myself?

2) Subject to being satisfied that it won't be taking the quick route
to the ground floor once I get it in, how the hell am I going to get
it up a flight of stairs? I reckon that would need four people, but I
doubt you could get four people around a quarter-tonne, two-drawer
filing cabinet while you all struggle up a not-particularly-wide
staircase. Anyone think a sack-barrow would help?

Cheers!

Martin

PS I know that website offers an upstairs delivery service, but I will
not be paying £929 to take advantage of it. I'm buying a bargain
secondhand one, hence the DIY issues.

Martin Pentreath wrote:

>VERY heavy. 233kg
>http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/2-2130-2h-2-drawer.html#specification
>It's fireproof, but god only knows what they put in it to get it to
>that weight. Thank god I don't need a four-drawer one.
>

>2) Subject to being satisfied that it won't be taking the quick route
>to the ground floor once I get it in, how the hell am I going to get
>it up a flight of stairs? I reckon that would need four people, but I
>doubt you could get four people around a quarter-tonne, two-drawer
>filing cabinet while you all struggle up a not-particularly-wide
>staircase. Anyone think a sack-barrow would help?
>
How about one of these?

http://www.hss.com/g/70493/Stair-Climber-vehicle-Loader.html

http://www.hss.com/g/70492/Powered-Stair-Climber-Battery.html

Chris
-- 
Chris J Dixon  Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk

Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"Chris J Dixon"  wrote in message 
news:79v1d4d44p626n4mek4d142ehmatd8bmu6@4ax.com...
> Martin Pentreath wrote:
>
>>VERY heavy. 233kg
>>http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/2-2130-2h-2-drawer.html#specification
>
> http://www.hss.com/g/70492/Powered-Stair-Climber-Battery.html
>

It is the stair case I would be worried about.  233 + 36 kg spread only on 
two wheels climbing up the leading edge of the stairs!  Once it is on its 
base the weight is spread out, but on a trolley the weight is concentrated 
on the two wheels.
M.

"Martin Pentreath"  wrote in message 
news:67ebcd57-3e18-4a8f-a4b2-ee0faf5c35b2@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> VERY heavy. 233kg
> http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/2-2130-2h-2-drawer.html#specification
> It's fireproof, but god only knows what they put in it to get it to
> that weight. Thank god I don't need a four-drawer one.
>
> Two issues arise:

Apart from the price!
>
> 1) Can my floor stand it? It will be in the corner of a first floor
> room with a conventional suspended floor. Victorian, so probably not
> the heftiest of joists. The weight will be directly over three joists
> very close to the point where they're attached to the brickwork
> (rather than mid-span), and then I suppose spread to a lesser extent
> over nearby joists by the floorboards. I'm thinking that it's only
> like three people standing in the corner of the room, but am I fooling
> myself?

I'd be concerned about how much more it will weigh when it's full. Paper 
weighs a LOT.
>
Mary

On 17 Sep, 15:08, "Mental"  wrote:
> It is the stair case I would be worried about.  233  36 kg spread only on
> two wheels climbing up the leading edge of the stairs!  Once it is on its

The one that Hannibal Lecter used in the film 'Hannibal' was slightly
different to the HSS ones was a better design imho! It had 3 wheels on
each side driven by a motor and a manual crank handle that Lecter
turned to raise Inspector Pazzi! Does anyone else remember it?

On 17 Sep, 13:54, Chris J Dixon  wrote:

> How about one of these?
>
> http://www.hss.com/g/70493/Stair-Climber-vehicle-Loader.html
>
> http://www.hss.com/g/70492/Powered-Stair-Climber-Battery.html

Thanks Chris, exactly what I need, but I'm not paying those prices!
I'm beginning to think that the whole idea is a non-starter and I
shall just have to let it all burn.

"Martin Pentreath"  wrote in message 
news:67ebcd57-3e18-4a8f-a4b2-ee0faf5c35b2@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> VERY heavy. 233kg
> http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/2-2130-2h-2-drawer.html#specification
> It's fireproof, but god only knows what they put in it to get it to
> that weight. Thank god I don't need a four-drawer one.
>
> Two issues arise:
>
> 1) Can my floor stand it? It will be in the corner of a first floor
> room with a conventional suspended floor. Victorian, so probably not
> the heftiest of joists.

IME the Victorians were good at over-engineering things. However, IIRC as 
general rule, floors built for domestic use were considred able to take a 
distribute load of 40-50lbs / sq ft, while offices were generally rated at 
80lbs/sq ft. That thing runs to 117 lbs/sq ft empty.

Colin Bignell

On 17 Sep, 18:02, "nightjar" <cpb@<insert my surname here>.me.uk>
wrote:

> IME the Victorians were good at over-engineering things. However, IIRC as
> general rule, floors built for domestic use were considred able to take a
> distribute load of 40-50lbs / sq ft, while offices were generally rated at
> 80lbs/sq ft. That thing runs to 117 lbs/sq ft empty.
>
> Colin Bignell

Hi Colin, thanks for the figures. A quick calculation puts me at over
150lbs /sq ft, I think I'll confine myself to the cellar.

Martin Pentreath wrote:
> Thanks Chris, exactly what I need, but I'm not paying those prices!
> I'm beginning to think that the whole idea is a non-starter and I
> shall just have to let it all burn.

Do you have anything that can't be scanned/photographed and stored on 
CDROM elsewhere?

Yes, I know it's not the same as having the originals.

Owain

Martin Pentreath wrote:
> VERY heavy. 233kg
> http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/2-2130-2h-2-drawer.html#specification
> It's fireproof, but god only knows what they put in it to get it to
> that weight. Thank god I don't need a four-drawer one.
> 
> Two issues arise:
> 
> 1) Can my floor stand it? It will be in the corner of a first floor
> room with a conventional suspended floor. Victorian, so probably not
> the heftiest of joists. The weight will be directly over three joists
> very close to the point where they're attached to the brickwork
> (rather than mid-span), and then I suppose spread to a lesser extent
> over nearby joists by the floorboards. I'm thinking that it's only
> like three people standing in the corner of the room, but am I fooling
> myself?
> 
> 2) Subject to being satisfied that it won't be taking the quick route
> to the ground floor once I get it in, how the hell am I going to get
> it up a flight of stairs? I reckon that would need four people, but I
> doubt you could get four people around a quarter-tonne, two-drawer
> filing cabinet while you all struggle up a not-particularly-wide
> staircase. Anyone think a sack-barrow would help?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Martin
Sackbarrow not what you want. A winch and runners is OK for straight stairs.

250kg is about ten times elfin safety limits for one person*, so you 
aint gonna lift it without mechanical aid.its about 5 cwt innit?

If it were me, I'd hire one of those hand winch jobbies, and lay some 
scaffolding planks up the stairs, and put it on a board and winch it up.

With levers, you should be able to 'walk' it across the room to where it 
needs to go. Use more boards to prevent carpet damage.

250kg is no bigger than a 250 liter water tank. If the joists are sound 
and its at a room edge. it shouldn't be too bad, but deflections as ou 
cross the center of the room - if you need to - will be 'interesting'

However 5cwt is only 40 stone. and thats about 3-4 people ..so if your 
room can take that, it can take the safe..safely.;-)



*35kg these days..

"Martin Pentreath"  wrote in message 
news:98e583e2-54ba-4c9d-a07a-201c85d4b641@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On 17 Sep, 18:02, "nightjar" <cpb@<insert my surname here>.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> IME the Victorians were good at over-engineering things. However, IIRC as
>> general rule, floors built for domestic use were considred able to take a
>> distribute load of 40-50lbs / sq ft, while offices were generally rated 
>> at
>> 80lbs/sq ft. That thing runs to 117 lbs/sq ft empty.
>>
>> Colin Bignell
>
> Hi Colin, thanks for the figures. A quick calculation puts me at over
> 150lbs /sq ft, I think I'll confine myself to the cellar.

I suspect you could end up there, even if you started on the first floor :-)

One advantage of the cellar is that the safe only has to protect the 
contents from falling debris, not survive dropping through a couple of 
burning floors first.

Colin Bignell

On 17 Sep, 20:29, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:

> Sackbarrow not what you want. A winch and runners is OK for straight stairs.
>
> 250kg is about ten times elfin safety limits for one person*, so you
> aint gonna lift it without mechanical aid.its about 5 cwt innit?
>
> If it were me, I'd hire one of those hand winch jobbies, and lay some
> scaffolding planks up the stairs, and put it on a board and winch it up.
>
> With levers, you should be able to 'walk' it across the room to where it
> needs to go. Use more boards to prevent carpet damage.
>
> 250kg is no bigger than a 250 liter water tank. If the joists are sound
> and its at a room edge. it shouldn't be too bad, but deflections as ou
> cross the center of the room - if you need to - will be 'interesting'
>
> However 5cwt is only 40 stone. and thats about 3-4 people ..so if your
> room can take that, it can take the safe..safely.;-)
>
> *35kg these days..

OK, I like the winch idea, I guess a tirfor winch would be the sort of
thing:
http://www.hss.com/g/69706/Tirfor-Winch-800-1200kg.html

The only problem is what to fix it to. It would need one hell of an
anchor point to take the weight, and I don't fancy fixing some
enormous ugly bolt into the wall at the top of the stairs.

The message

from Martin Pentreath  contains these words:

> VERY heavy. 233kg
> http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/2-2130-2h-2-drawer.html#specification
> It's fireproof, but god only knows what they put in it to get it to
> that weight. Thank god I don't need a four-drawer one.

> Two issues arise:

> 1) Can my floor stand it? It will be in the corner of a first floor
> room with a conventional suspended floor. Victorian, so probably not
> the heftiest of joists. The weight will be directly over three joists
> very close to the point where they're attached to the brickwork
> (rather than mid-span), and then I suppose spread to a lesser extent
> over nearby joists by the floorboards. I'm thinking that it's only
> like three people standing in the corner of the room, but am I fooling
> myself?

> 2) Subject to being satisfied that it won't be taking the quick route
> to the ground floor once I get it in, how the hell am I going to get
> it up a flight of stairs? I reckon that would need four people, but I
> doubt you could get four people around a quarter-tonne, two-drawer
> filing cabinet while you all struggle up a not-particularly-wide
> staircase. Anyone think a sack-barrow would help?

> Cheers!

> Martin

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt (with a 3-drawer Chubb model)

There's a very surprising amount of weight in the drawers.  Remove them
and you'll be surprised at the difference it makes.  Beware, though,
these drawers are a two-person lift. Thankfully mine is on a concrete
floor at ground level.  Rolled into final position on a couple of
rollers cut from an old rake handle -- and left on them.  And no, it
doesn't roll anywhere when you pull out a drawer.

Martin Pentreath wrote:
> VERY heavy. 233kg
>
http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/2-2130-2h-2-drawer.html#specification
> It's fireproof, but god only knows what they put in it to get it to
> that weight.

They are normally concrete between the inner and outer walls.

"PM" <pm@m_.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:XY2dnT46UJCdmU_VnZ2dnUVZ8sednZ2d@pipex.net...
> Martin Pentreath wrote:
>> VERY heavy. 233kg
>>
> http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/2-2130-2h-2-drawer.html#specification
>> It's fireproof, but god only knows what they put in it to get it to
>> that weight.
>
> They are normally concrete between the inner and outer walls.
>
For a fire safe they would use insulating material rather than concrete. 
With an inner wall and outer wall of 5mm steel plus drawers runners and 
bracing, I could get the weight to ~233kg from the dimensions


-- 
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not) >

"nightjar" <cpb@<insert my surname here>.me.uk> wrote:

> One advantage of the cellar is that the safe only has to protect the 
> contents from falling debris, not survive dropping through a couple of 
> burning floors first.

But may also get water-logged.

-- 
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Martin Pentreath wrote:
> On 17 Sep, 20:29, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:
> 
>> Sackbarrow not what you want. A winch and runners is OK for straight stairs.
>>
>> 250kg is about ten times elfin safety limits for one person*, so you
>> aint gonna lift it without mechanical aid.its about 5 cwt innit?
>>
>> If it were me, I'd hire one of those hand winch jobbies, and lay some
>> scaffolding planks up the stairs, and put it on a board and winch it up.
>>
>> With levers, you should be able to 'walk' it across the room to where it
>> needs to go. Use more boards to prevent carpet damage.
>>
>> 250kg is no bigger than a 250 liter water tank. If the joists are sound
>> and its at a room edge. it shouldn't be too bad, but deflections as ou
>> cross the center of the room - if you need to - will be 'interesting'
>>
>> However 5cwt is only 40 stone. and thats about 3-4 people ..so if your
>> room can take that, it can take the safe..safely.;-)
>>
>> *35kg these days..
> 
> OK, I like the winch idea, I guess a tirfor winch would be the sort of
> thing:
> http://www.hss.com/g/69706/Tirfor-Winch-800-1200kg.html
> 
> The only problem is what to fix it to. It would need one hell of an
> anchor point to take the weight, and I don't fancy fixing some
> enormous ugly bolt into the wall at the top of the stairs.

What you do is use a lump of timber and something like a doorway or 
window frame, and rope that as an anchor to wherever the winch needs to go.

As long as you can prop the load safely when you need to relocate the 
winch, progress will be slow, but sure.

Use lots of padding around all ropes otherwise they will cut into 
anything they touch.