On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:57:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
wrote:

>Stephen Howard wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:12:26 +0000, Stephen Howard
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> You can have Stanley Jordan then...even more effort!
>> 
>> http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=baDM3_6w8-E
>> 
>> Oh yeah!!
>> 
>Like most modern jazz, incredibly skillful and clever, and leaves me 
>totally cold..

For  sure, it's not Kenny Ball or Acker Bilk - and often has the same
effect that, say, a good red wine or a fine cheese has on many a
coarse palate.

Regards,



-- 
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Stephen Howard wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:57:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
> wrote:
> 
>> Stephen Howard wrote:
>>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:12:26 +0000, Stephen Howard
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> You can have Stanley Jordan then...even more effort!
>>> http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=baDM3_6w8-E
>>>
>>> Oh yeah!!
>>>
>> Like most modern jazz, incredibly skillful and clever, and leaves me 
>> totally cold..
> 
> For  sure, it's not Kenny Ball or Acker Bilk - and often has the same
> effect that, say, a good red wine or a fine cheese has on many a
> coarse palate.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
why make a perjorative remark?: I merely expressed a personal opinion, 
and made no comment about others..

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:18:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
wrote:

>Stephen Howard wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:57:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Stephen Howard wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:12:26 +0000, Stephen Howard
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You can have Stanley Jordan then...even more effort!
>>>> http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=baDM3_6w8-E
>>>>
>>>> Oh yeah!!
>>>>
>>> Like most modern jazz, incredibly skillful and clever, and leaves me 
>>> totally cold..
>> 
>> For  sure, it's not Kenny Ball or Acker Bilk - and often has the same
>> effect that, say, a good red wine or a fine cheese has on many a
>> coarse palate.
>> 
>> 
>why make a perjorative remark?: I merely expressed a personal opinion, 
>and made no comment about others..

Nothing pejorative about it - it's well-known that more advanced forms
of music require a degree of, for want of a better word, education.
First time I heard Charlie Parker I thought it was nothing more than
some geezer making squeaky noises on an alto - but with a significant
number of excellent players speaking in terms of 'genius' etc. I made
the effort to find out why I couldn't appreciate the music.
I understand it now, and appreciate it for its staggering beauty - and
better still it opened the door to even more exciting artists.

Regards,



-- 
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Stephen Howard wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:18:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
> wrote:
> 
>> Stephen Howard wrote:
>>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:57:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stephen Howard wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:12:26 +0000, Stephen Howard
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You can have Stanley Jordan then...even more effort!
>>>>> http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=baDM3_6w8-E
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh yeah!!
>>>>>
>>>> Like most modern jazz, incredibly skillful and clever, and leaves me 
>>>> totally cold..
>>> For  sure, it's not Kenny Ball or Acker Bilk - and often has the same
>>> effect that, say, a good red wine or a fine cheese has on many a
>>> coarse palate.
>>>
>>>
>> why make a perjorative remark?: I merely expressed a personal opinion, 
>> and made no comment about others..
> 
> Nothing pejorative about it - it's well-known that more advanced forms
> of music require a degree of, for want of a better word, education.
> First time I heard Charlie Parker I thought it was nothing more than
> some geezer making squeaky noises on an alto - but with a significant
> number of excellent players speaking in terms of 'genius' etc. I made
> the effort to find out why I couldn't appreciate the music.
> I understand it now, and appreciate it for its staggering beauty - and
> better still it opened the door to even more exciting artists.
> 

Well I suppose that you could say that being fairly clued up as am 
engieer,the  sound of a Mclraren F1 car has a certain sort of beauty, 
but frankly I wouldn't wander around with my nose in the air telling 
people its high Art./

It's Engineering.

Jazz like that is technique, but its not what I call Art.

I can appreciate it, but I wouldn't want to have it playing in my room, 
any more than i  would a Mclaren F1 car..

All skill, no creativity.



> Regards,
> 
> 
>

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:02:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
wrote:

>Stephen Howard wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:18:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
>> wrote:
<snip>
>>> why make a perjorative remark?: I merely expressed a personal opinion, 
>>> and made no comment about others..
>> 
>> Nothing pejorative about it - it's well-known that more advanced forms
>> of music require a degree of, for want of a better word, education.
>> First time I heard Charlie Parker I thought it was nothing more than
>> some geezer making squeaky noises on an alto - but with a significant
>> number of excellent players speaking in terms of 'genius' etc. I made
>> the effort to find out why I couldn't appreciate the music.
>> I understand it now, and appreciate it for its staggering beauty - and
>> better still it opened the door to even more exciting artists.
>> 
>
>Well I suppose that you could say that being fairly clued up as am 
>engieer,the  sound of a Mclraren F1 car has a certain sort of beauty, 
>but frankly I wouldn't wander around with my nose in the air telling 
>people its high Art./
>
>It's Engineering.
>
>Jazz like that is technique, but its not what I call Art.
>
>I can appreciate it, but I wouldn't want to have it playing in my room, 
>any more than i  would a Mclaren F1 car..
>
>All skill, no creativity.
>
You've already made it clear you don't understand it - not much point
your trying to critique it when you haven't got a clue what's going
on.

Regards,



-- 
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Stephen Howard wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:02:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
> wrote:
> 
>> Stephen Howard wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:18:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
>>> wrote:
> <snip>
>>>> why make a perjorative remark?: I merely expressed a personal opinion, 
>>>> and made no comment about others..
>>> Nothing pejorative about it - it's well-known that more advanced forms
>>> of music require a degree of, for want of a better word, education.
>>> First time I heard Charlie Parker I thought it was nothing more than
>>> some geezer making squeaky noises on an alto - but with a significant
>>> number of excellent players speaking in terms of 'genius' etc. I made
>>> the effort to find out why I couldn't appreciate the music.
>>> I understand it now, and appreciate it for its staggering beauty - and
>>> better still it opened the door to even more exciting artists.
>>>
>> Well I suppose that you could say that being fairly clued up as am 
>> engieer,the  sound of a Mclraren F1 car has a certain sort of beauty, 
>> but frankly I wouldn't wander around with my nose in the air telling 
>> people its high Art./
>>
>> It's Engineering.
>>
>> Jazz like that is technique, but its not what I call Art.
>>
>> I can appreciate it, but I wouldn't want to have it playing in my room, 
>> any more than i  would a Mclaren F1 car..
>>
>> All skill, no creativity.
>>
> You've already made it clear you don't understand it - not much point
> your trying to critique it when you haven't got a clue what's going
> on.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 

Weird this jazz thing. It never actually dies, but it's been on the 
verge of it for the last 50 years. Can't fill the back room of a pub for 
a jazz gig these days.
I was shocked to see Tal Farlow playing in the corner of a pub in Oxford 
with no one listening, and that was 20 years ago.

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:06:33 +0100, stuart noble
 wrote:

<snip>
>> 
>> 
>
>Weird this jazz thing. It never actually dies, but it's been on the 
>verge of it for the last 50 years. Can't fill the back room of a pub for 
>a jazz gig these days.
>I was shocked to see Tal Farlow playing in the corner of a pub in Oxford 
>with no one listening, and that was 20 years ago.

It's like most forms of specialised music, it's under-funded and
under-promoted.
Practically any form of non-mainstream music suffers in the same way -
even esoteric rock or the just plain not fashionable.

On the whole, jazz fans tend to prefer going to specialist venues -
and with good reason. I once went to see the great Eddie Thompson play
in a bar in Essex...and there was a guy shoving coins in a fruit
machine for half the first set. The landlord refused to switch the
machine off.

Should be interesting over the next decade or so, with the influx of
decent and extremely cheap instruments from China.

Regards,



-- 
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Stephen Howard wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:06:33 +0100, stuart noble
>  wrote:
> 
> <snip>
>>>
>> Weird this jazz thing. It never actually dies, but it's been on the 
>> verge of it for the last 50 years. Can't fill the back room of a pub for 
>> a jazz gig these days.
>> I was shocked to see Tal Farlow playing in the corner of a pub in Oxford 
>> with no one listening, and that was 20 years ago.
> 
> It's like most forms of specialised music, it's under-funded and
> under-promoted.
> Practically any form of non-mainstream music suffers in the same way -
> even esoteric rock or the just plain not fashionable.
> 
> On the whole, jazz fans tend to prefer going to specialist venues -
> and with good reason. I once went to see the great Eddie Thompson play
> in a bar in Essex...and there was a guy shoving coins in a fruit
> machine for half the first set. The landlord refused to switch the
> machine off.
> 
> Should be interesting over the next decade or so, with the influx of
> decent and extremely cheap instruments from China.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 

The only semi-serious jazz venues in London seem to be The Vortex and 
The 606.  Ronnie's has become the typical corporate night club, which I 
guess was inevitable, and the pizza houses don't do it for me. Hovering 
waiters etc.
I think young British players are perhaps trying too hard to be 
innovative and have forgotten how to enjoy themselves.

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:01:31 +0100, stuart noble
 wrote:

>Stephen Howard wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:06:33 +0100, stuart noble
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> <snip>

>> 
>> On the whole, jazz fans tend to prefer going to specialist venues -
>> and with good reason. I once went to see the great Eddie Thompson play
>> in a bar in Essex...and there was a guy shoving coins in a fruit
>> machine for half the first set. The landlord refused to switch the
>> machine off.
>> 
>> Should be interesting over the next decade or so, with the influx of
>> decent and extremely cheap instruments from China.

>
>The only semi-serious jazz venues in London seem to be The Vortex and 
>The 606.  Ronnie's has become the typical corporate night club, which I 
>guess was inevitable, and the pizza houses don't do it for me. Hovering 
>waiters etc.
>I think young British players are perhaps trying too hard to be 
>innovative and have forgotten how to enjoy themselves.

Depends what you mean by 'serious'. In 'big name' terms, perhaps - but
there are some very seriously good players to be seen at places like
the legendary Bull's Head, Dover St. Wine Bar, Jazz Cafe etc.

I'd disagree with your statement about young British jazzers, mostly
on the basis that I get to meet or hear about a lot of them ( as you
might imagine ), and they seem to be thoroughly enjoying themselves.
Check out someone like Paul Booth or Dunstan Coulber, for instance.

Regards,



-- 
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

In article <ZBatk.129308$Ft5.93548@newsfe29.ams2>,
   stuart noble  wrote:
> Weird this jazz thing. It never actually dies, but it's been on the 
> verge of it for the last 50 years. Can't fill the back room of a pub for 
> a jazz gig these days.

The Bulls Head Barnes manages - at least when I go there.

-- 
Small asylum seeker wanted as mud flap, must be flexible and willing to travel

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:39:09 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
 wrote:

>In article <ZBatk.129308$Ft5.93548@newsfe29.ams2>,
>   stuart noble  wrote:
>> Weird this jazz thing. It never actually dies, but it's been on the 
>> verge of it for the last 50 years. Can't fill the back room of a pub for 
>> a jazz gig these days.
>
>The Bulls Head Barnes manages - at least when I go there.

I used to work with a chap called Archie, a jazz bassist, and when I
mentioned I was going to the Bull's Head for the very first time he
told me to be sure to buy the barman a drink - he gave no reason, but
said I should not forget to do so and that I would find out why.

So, I pitched up at the pub about 30 minutes before the gig started,
bought a pint and duly asked the barman if he'd have one himself.

The place began to fill up, so I grabbed a seat and settled down to
listen to the band.
Come half time and barely before the cymbals had come to rest, the bar
was packed solid with punters trying to get a drink. I stood at the
back of a considerable crush...and then to my complete surprise a hand
appeared above the melee and a loud ( Scottish ) voice said "Here you
go, Sir" and the crowd parted as the barman held out my pint.

Regards,



-- 
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk