Just been changing all my rad valves for TRV's & new lock shields.  System 
has been in for 28 years + to my knowledge, rads in perfect condition, not a 
spot of rust anywhere.

Original plan was to use the existing rad tails (for the lock shields) and 
the existing nuts & olives on the supply/return pipework.

Couldn't use either.  The rad tails wouldn't fit the new lock shield valves, 
did up a few turns but you could feel they weren't 'right'.

Nuts & olives on the existing pipes were even worse, did up half a turn & 
stopped, no chance of sealing.

In the end I replaced all the rad tails & supply/return pipe connectors. 
Thank the Lord for olive pullers, large allen keys & percussive 
maintenance..

Once loose I tried the threads & they definitely weren't right.

Have they changed thread sizes/pitches in the last 28 years?


-- 
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
> Just been changing all my rad valves for TRV's & new lock shields. System 
> has been in for 28 years + to my knowledge, rads in perfect
> condition, not a spot of rust anywhere.
>
> Original plan was to use the existing rad tails (for the lock
> shields) and the existing nuts & olives on the supply/return pipework.
>
> Couldn't use either.  The rad tails wouldn't fit the new lock shield
> valves, did up a few turns but you could feel they weren't 'right'.
>
> Nuts & olives on the existing pipes were even worse, did up half a
> turn & stopped, no chance of sealing.
>
> In the end I replaced all the rad tails & supply/return pipe
> connectors. Thank the Lord for olive pullers, large allen keys &
> percussive maintenance..
>
> Once loose I tried the threads & they definitely weren't right.
>
> Have they changed thread sizes/pitches in the last 28 years?

Dave,

I seem to remeber that around that time there was a bit of a rumpus about 
going from the old *imperial* to the new fangled *metric* system - or are 
you way to young to remeber that? ;-)

(That included changing from BSP etc as well - for the purists amongst us. 
LOL

Tanner-'op

Tanner-'op wrote:
> The Medway Handyman wrote:
>> Just been changing all my rad valves for TRV's & new lock shields.
>> System has been in for 28 years + to my knowledge, rads in perfect
>> condition, not a spot of rust anywhere.
>>
>> Original plan was to use the existing rad tails (for the lock
>> shields) and the existing nuts & olives on the supply/return
>> pipework. Couldn't use either.  The rad tails wouldn't fit the new lock 
>> shield
>> valves, did up a few turns but you could feel they weren't 'right'.
>>
>> Nuts & olives on the existing pipes were even worse, did up half a
>> turn & stopped, no chance of sealing.
>>
>> In the end I replaced all the rad tails & supply/return pipe
>> connectors. Thank the Lord for olive pullers, large allen keys &
>> percussive maintenance..
>>
>> Once loose I tried the threads & they definitely weren't right.
>>
>> Have they changed thread sizes/pitches in the last 28 years?
>
> Dave,
>
> I seem to remeber that around that time there was a bit of a rumpus
> about going from the old *imperial* to the new fangled *metric*
> system - or are you way to young to remeber that? ;-)
>
> (That included changing from BSP etc as well - for the purists
> amongst us. LOL
>
> Tanner-'op

Damn,

I must learn how to spell *remember* --  
remember,remember,remember,remember - Ithink I have it now :-(

Tanner-'op

"The Medway Handyman"  wrote:

> Just been changing all my rad valves for TRV's & new lock shields.  System 
> has been in for 28 years + to my knowledge, rads in perfect condition,
> not a 
> spot of rust anywhere.

> Original plan was to use the existing rad tails (for the lock shields) and 
> the existing nuts & olives on the supply/return pipework.

> Couldn't use either.  The rad tails wouldn't fit the new lock shield
> valves, 
> did up a few turns but you could feel they weren't 'right'.

> Nuts & olives on the existing pipes were even worse, did up half a turn & 
> stopped, no chance of sealing.

> In the end I replaced all the rad tails & supply/return pipe connectors. 
> Thank the Lord for olive pullers, large allen keys & percussive 
> maintenance..

> Once loose I tried the threads & they definitely weren't right.

> Have they changed thread sizes/pitches in the last 28 years?

Very probably.  They've changed everything else...

-- 
AnneJ

Tanner-'op wrote:

> I seem to remeber that around that time there was a bit of a rumpus about 
> going from the old *imperial* to the new fangled *metric* system - or are 
> you way to young to remeber that? ;-)


Yeah but, plumbing fitting threads are still BSP...


-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

John Rumm wrote:
> Tanner-'op wrote:
>
>> I seem to remeber that around that time there was a bit of a rumpus
>> about going from the old *imperial* to the new fangled *metric*
>> system - or are you way to young to remeber that? ;-)
>
>
> Yeah but, plumbing fitting threads are still BSP...
>
>
>
> /=================================================================\
>>          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------|
>>        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
> \=================================================================/

You're right there John, it is still used in plumbing and pipe-fitting if I 
remember correctly - not having a good night tonight though, I can't ruddy 
spell and earlier on, I erroneously 'securely' deleted a folder with around 
8 years worth of work in it - ah well, that's life, time to 'hunt' around 
for the back up floppies and CDs!

Tanner-'op

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:26:57 +0100, John Rumm
 wrote:

>Tanner-'op wrote:
>
>> I seem to remeber that around that time there was a bit of a rumpus about 
>> going from the old *imperial* to the new fangled *metric* system - or are 
>> you way to young to remeber that? ;-)
>
>
>Yeah but, plumbing fitting threads are still BSP...

Yes but usually made "abroad" and they don't to seem to understand
what BSP actually is when it comes to making the threads.

I know exactly what he means by "but you could feel they weren't
'right'."

"Tanner-'op" <tannerop@i......nvalid.com> wrote in message 
news:6h3o6dFiedg1U1@mid.individual.net...
> John Rumm wrote:
> You're right there John, it is still used in plumbing and pipe-fitting if 
> I remember correctly - not having a good night tonight though, I can't 
> ruddy spell and earlier on, I erroneously 'securely' deleted a folder with 
> around 8 years worth of work in it - ah well, that's life, time to 'hunt' 
> around for the back up floppies and CDs!
>

Ouch !
Can I suggest an external hard drive and a program such as Karen's 
Replicator that allows you to schedule copying folders to the backup.

Other programs exist, but this has a light footprint and does a straight 
file copy so you don't need to 'run' anything to get the backups back.

"The Medway Handyman"  wrote in message 
news:Wo0rk.45766$E41.14612@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> Just been changing all my rad valves for TRV's & new lock shields.  System 
> has been in for 28 years + to my knowledge, rads in perfect condition, not 
> a spot of rust anywhere.
>
> Original plan was to use the existing rad tails (for the lock shields) and 
> the existing nuts & olives on the supply/return pipework.
>
> Couldn't use either.  The rad tails wouldn't fit the new lock shield 
> valves, did up a few turns but you could feel they weren't 'right'.
>
> Nuts & olives on the existing pipes were even worse, did up half a turn & 
> stopped, no chance of sealing.
>
> In the end I replaced all the rad tails & supply/return pipe connectors. 
> Thank the Lord for olive pullers, large allen keys & percussive 
> maintenance..
>
> Once loose I tried the threads & they definitely weren't right.
>
> Have they changed thread sizes/pitches in the last 28 years?
>

About 15-20 years ago there were compression fittings about with different 
threads and you couldn't guarantee that one make would fit another - I know 
because I bought both at the time - grrr. This no longer seems to be the 
case. You would have to be unlucky (I have just been doing the same job on 
30-40 year old valves and the new ones fit to the same olive/nut). As others 
have said, for the iron fittings, BSP has been retained


-- 
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not

In article <Wo0rk.45766$E41.14612@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
   The Medway Handyman  wrote:
> Have they changed thread sizes/pitches in the last 28 years?

Forget the last 28 years - I find 'nuts' from one make won't necessarily
fit another properly.

-- 
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 21 Aug,  
     John Rumm  wrote:

> Tanner-'op wrote:
> 
> > I seem to remeber that around that time there was a bit of a rumpus about
> > going from the old *imperial* to the new fangled *metric* system - or are
> > you way to young to remeber that? ;-)
> 
> 
> Yeah but, plumbing fitting threads are still BSP...
>
There are some that are a finer thread, the connections to my boiler, and the
Danfoss zone valves in my system are 22mm compression, but not BSP, the
thread is about 50% more TPI. 



-- 
  B Thumbs
  Change lycos to yahoo to reply

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:39:36 퍝, OG wrote:

> Ouch !

Quite I deleted an "unrecognised profile" a few months back which turnedout to be a current user... Managed to get a lot back with undelete tools 
but lost some mail folders (piggin OLE keeps everything in single files rather than a decent spread directories/single file structure).

> Can I suggest an external hard drive and a program such as Karen's 
> Replicator that allows you to schedule copying folders to the backup.

I now use SecondCopy to copy everything(*) new/changed below /Documents and Settings/<user> to that users home directory on the server when everthat user logs off. SecondCopy allows you to keep an archive as well so the server has the last two versions of everything as well. If SecondCopy 
encounters a problem it'll email the log to me. The server has two discsunder software RAID1 and that is backed up to another, dedicated, drive in 
a workstation (3 sets, fullback up once a week with daily increments). Ihope that I'm now pretty safe...

Can Karens Replicator be set to run a given set of instructions when a 
user logs off? Email someone if it has a problem? And keep multiple copies 
on the destination?

With these sort of copy programs and a NAS device costing less than £100 
it really does mean that there is no excuse for not having a decent backup 
system in place. Gone are the days of expensive or slow tape drives and multiple tapes and tape changing etc. The initial copy may take a while to 
run but after that it's normally only a few tens of seconds.

(*) With a few exceptions like "temporary internet files" etc.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

OG wrote:
> "Tanner-'op" <tannerop@i......nvalid.com> wrote in message
> news:6h3o6dFiedg1U1@mid.individual.net...
>> John Rumm wrote:
>> You're right there John, it is still used in plumbing and
>> pipe-fitting if I remember correctly - not having a good night
>> tonight though, I can't ruddy spell and earlier on, I erroneously
>> 'securely' deleted a folder with around 8 years worth of work in it
>> - ah well, that's life, time to 'hunt' around for the back up
>> floppies and CDs!
>
> Ouch !
> Can I suggest an external hard drive and a program such as Karen's
> Replicator that allows you to schedule copying folders to the backup.
>
> Other programs exist, but this has a light footprint and does a
> straight file copy so you don't need to 'run' anything to get the
> backups back.

Thanks OG,

I managed to find all the back-up disks that I have done, and recovered 
around 99.9999r% of the stuff - only losing what I have done over the last 
week.

It's lucky that this folder is viewed quite often, but only added to around 
every couple of months or so.

As for an external hard drive for backups, I have a couple of spare 
computers hanging around and I have been thinking of setting up a server in 
a RAID-1 format for a couple of months now as a back-up system - I think 
that this little error will spur me on to do that job.

Tanner-'op

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:55:02 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

> Just been changing all my rad valves for TRV's & new lock shields. 
> System has been in for 28 years + to my knowledge, rads in perfect
> condition, not a spot of rust anywhere.
> 
> Original plan was to use the existing rad tails (for the lock shields)
> and the existing nuts & olives on the supply/return pipework.
> 
> Couldn't use either.  The rad tails wouldn't fit the new lock shield
> valves, did up a few turns but you could feel they weren't 'right'.
> 
> Nuts & olives on the existing pipes were even worse, did up half a turn
> & stopped, no chance of sealing.
> 
> In the end I replaced all the rad tails & supply/return pipe connectors.
> Thank the Lord for olive pullers, large allen keys & percussive
> maintenance..
> 
> Once loose I tried the threads & they definitely weren't right.
> 
> Have they changed thread sizes/pitches in the last 28 years?

Where a joint seals on the thread itself then in all but some very 
unusually places the threads are BSP now internationalized as Rt and Rp 
threads.

Radiators are 1/2" and some older ones are bigger.

The back nuts for compression fittings to BS 864  (or equivalent EN) are 
1/2 BSP for 15mm stuff. 

The threads for other sizes are not BSP. 

Some compression fittings don't conform to the standard and the older the 
fitting the more likely this is to be true. Especially if the back nut is 
8-sided.

The main problem with inter-changeability of the backnut+olives is that 
some (usually older) fittings allowed a longer piece of the pipe to go 
into the fitting past the olive. 



-- 
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk 
Gas fitting FAQ  http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Euch, what is it with some users that they cause OE to lose the correct 
indents when replying ?


> 
> On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:39:36 +0100, OG wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ouch !
> 
> 
> Quite I deleted an "unrecognised profile" a few months back which turned 
> out to be a current user... Managed to get a lot back with undelete tools 
> but lost some mail folders (piggin OLE keeps everything in single files 
> rather than a decent spread directories/single file structure).
> 

>>Can I suggest an external hard drive and a program such as Karen's 
>>Replicator that allows you to schedule copying folders to the backup.
> 
> 
> I now use SecondCopy to copy everything(*) new/changed below /Documents 
> and Settings/<user> to that users home directory on the server when ever 
> that user logs off. SecondCopy allows you to keep an archive as well so 
> the server has the last two versions of everything as well. If SecondCopy 
> encounters a problem it'll email the log to me. The server has two discs 
> under software RAID1 and that is backed up to another, dedicated, drive in 
> a workstation (3 sets, fullback up once a week with daily increments). I 
> hope that I'm now pretty safe...

Can I say that it sounds lovely, but it's probably more than most people 
need.


> Can Karens Replicator be set to run a given set of instructions when a 
> user logs off? Email someone if it has a problem? And keep multiple copies 
> on the destination?

No, but if you want users' actions to be 'replicated' when they log off, 
you do tend to complete the deletion process rather sooner than may be 
really desirable. Tho the 2 'back copies' may be useful for a couple of 
days.


> With these sort of copy programs and a NAS device costing less than £100 
> it really does mean that there is no excuse for not having a decent backup 
> system in place. Gone are the days of expensive or slow tape drives and 
> multiple tapes and tape changing etc. The initial copy may take a while to 
> run but after that it's normally only a few tens of seconds.


Jolly good.

"OG"  wrote in message 
news:6h6egeFjhnf5U1@mid.individual.net...
> Dave Liquorice wrote:
>


>> I now use SecondCopy to copy everything(*) new/changed below /Documents 
>> and Settings/<user> to that users home directory on the server when ever 
>> that user logs off. SecondCopy allows you to keep an archive as well so 
>> the server has the last two versions of everything as well. If SecondCopy 
>> encounters a problem it'll email the log to me. The server has two discs 
>> under software RAID1 and that is backed up to another, dedicated, drive 
>> in a workstation (3 sets, fullback up once a week with daily increments). 
>> I hope that I'm now pretty safe...
>
> Can I say that it sounds lovely, but it's probably more than most people 
> need.

yes, I'd agree it depends how important your data is.
I doubt the home user needs such  intense backups.
Time machine (Apple) does incremental backups every hour
for 24 hours then every day for a week or month then every week for a month
or something like that. I'm not sure what I could create in under an hour 
that
would be impossible to recreate, perhaps a high game score. ;-)



>> With these sort of copy programs and a NAS device costing less than £100 
>> it really does mean that there is no excuse for not having a decent 
>> backup system in place.
depending on what you do of course.

 >Gone are the days of expensive or slow tape drives and
>> multiple tapes and tape changing etc.

And the floppy. That disapeared for us Mac uses before this millennium 
started ;-)

>> The initial copy may take a while to run but after that it's normally 
>> only a few tens of seconds.

Provided you don't do much of course.

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:31:51 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

>> Can I say that it sounds lovely, but it's probably more than most 
>> people need.
> 
> yes, I'd agree it depends how important your data is. I doubt the home 
> user needs such intense backups.

Well if your only using a PC for playing games or watching youtube I guess 
so but once you start to write letters on it, use email or usenet, 
maintain the home finances etc the the data becomes very important. Most 
people don't realise how important until they want it, perhaps some 
considerable time after it was lost.

A decent backup scheme is not to protect from the accidental deletion of 
something, that can be rescued from the trash can. But from a hard disc 
failure be that a head crash or the machine being nicked.

>> Gone are the days of expensive or slow tape drives and multiple tapes 
>> and tape changing etc.
> 
> And the floppy. That disapeared for us Mac uses before this millennium 
> started ;-)

Never backed up to floppy, the stack kept falling over after 50... I did 
venture into floppy based tape drives but they were very slow and you had 
to change tapes and rotate them in ways I could never quite get my head 
around so backups never really happened. Decent sized and fast tape drives 
where (and still are) fing expensive.

An alternative to a NAS is of course a multi giga byte USB memory stick 
and just copy to that. Has the advantage that you can carry it with you so 
it's also "off site".

>>> The initial copy may take a while to run but after that it's normally 
>>> only a few tens of seconds.
> 
> Provided you don't do much of course.

Well as OLE maintains it's mail folders in a few flat files just a single 
new email can make a change to a multi mega byte file. I'm looking at one 
users OLE directory ATM, comes to 61M and all the files where changed in 
that last users session. As I said it doesn't take more than a few tens of 
seconds to copy that lot and a couple of other identies as well, plus 
anything else that has been worked on.

Even if you do and you want the machine to shutdown after its finished you 
can set SecondCopy to do that (or restart or return to the login screen) 
so you don't have to hang around waiting for it.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "whisky-dave"
 saying something like:

>I'm not sure what I could create in under an hour 
>that would be impossible to recreate,

Oh, I dunno - imagine you've just transferred some bloody good image
files from your camera over to your hard drive and it goes toes up.

I'd think such a thing might happen relatively often these days.


-- 
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
 How much more suspenseful can you get?"
 - House

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:47:46 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

>> I'm not sure what I could create in under an hour that would be 
>> impossible to recreate,
> 
> Oh, I dunno - imagine you've just transferred some bloody good image
> files from your camera over to your hard drive and it goes toes up.

Thats why I habitually use "copy" rather than "move", the orginals are 
still on the source device...

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

"Tanner-'op" <tannerop@i......nvalid.com> wrote in message 
news:6h59f2Fj2i7gU1@mid.individual.net...
> OG wrote:
>> "Tanner-'op" <tannerop@i......nvalid.com> wrote in message
>> news:6h3o6dFiedg1U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> John Rumm wrote:
>>> You're right there John, it is still used in plumbing and
>>> pipe-fitting if I remember correctly - not having a good night
>>> tonight though, I can't ruddy spell and earlier on, I erroneously
>>> 'securely' deleted a folder with around 8 years worth of work in it
>>> - ah well, that's life, time to 'hunt' around for the back up
>>> floppies and CDs!
>>
>> Ouch !
>> Can I suggest an external hard drive and a program such as Karen's
>> Replicator that allows you to schedule copying folders to the backup.
>>
>> Other programs exist, but this has a light footprint and does a
>> straight file copy so you don't need to 'run' anything to get the
>> backups back.
>
> Thanks OG,
>
> I managed to find all the back-up disks that I have done, and recovered 
> around 99.9999r% of the stuff - only losing what I have done over the last 
> week.
>
> It's lucky that this folder is viewed quite often, but only added to 
> around every couple of months or so.
>
> As for an external hard drive for backups, I have a couple of spare 
> computers hanging around and I have been thinking of setting up a server 
> in a RAID-1 format for a couple of months now as a back-up system - I 
> think that this little error will spur me on to do that job.

Check out the cheap HP Proliant ML115 and ML110 servers doing the rounds at 
the moment, they come with RAID5 on the motherboard and cost about £115 
delivered.

"OG"  wrote in message
news:6h4gtfFj7s2jU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Tanner-'op" <tannerop@i......nvalid.com> wrote in message
> news:6h3o6dFiedg1U1@mid.individual.net...
> > John Rumm wrote:
> > You're right there John, it is still used in plumbing and pipe-fitting
if
> > I remember correctly - not having a good night tonight though, I can't
> > ruddy spell and earlier on, I erroneously 'securely' deleted a folder
with
> > around 8 years worth of work in it - ah well, that's life, time to
'hunt'
> > around for the back up floppies and CDs!
> >
>
> Ouch !
> Can I suggest an external hard drive and a program such as Karen's
> Replicator that allows you to schedule copying folders to the backup.
>
> Other programs exist, but this has a light footprint and does a straight
> file copy so you don't need to 'run' anything to get the backups back.
>
>
I have used Second Copy for years does the trick
http://www.secondcopy.com/

-- 
regards
dave batter
kitchenman
www.kitchenman.co.uk
Please note my new kitchenman mobile number
077 SX MITRES
http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/init?k_id5568652