Is there a 'magic' drill for this kind of thing?
Is 10mm microbore worth bothering with?

fred wrote:
> Is there a 'magic' drill for this kind of thing?
> Is 10mm microbore worth bothering with?

You need an SDS drill.  The Makita 
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/99908/Power-Tools/SDS-Drills/Makita-240V-2kg-HR2470-2-SDS-Plus-Drill 
is an example of a top quality tool, you can buy cheapo's from the sheds.


-- 
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Bought one of these last week. Expensive, but excellent quality large
diameter sds bits (Reisser branded). Straight through 400mm solid
masonry.

http://www.screwfix.com/cats/A337720/Drill-Bits/SDS-Plus/SDS-Plus-Drill-Bits

"The Medway Handyman"  wrote in message
news:KMLnk.40527$E41.17935@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> fred wrote:
>> Is there a 'magic' drill for this kind of thing?
>> Is 10mm microbore worth bothering with?
>
> You need an SDS drill.  The Makita
> http://www.screwfix.com/prods/99908/Power-Tools/SDS-Drills/Makita-240V-2kg-HR2470-2-SDS-Plus-Drill
> is an example of a top quality tool, you can buy cheapo's from the sheds.
>
>
> -- 
> Dave - The Medway Handyman
> www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
>
>

I second that.  I've had one of these for several years.

For drilling big holes in masonry SDS is what you need, and this is a good 
drill.

A couple of years ago I purchased a set of 900mm long SDS masonry bits. 
Perfect for drilling holes through thick walls, and also dynamiting 
rock-faces.


D

On 11 Aug, 00:59, "fred"  wrote:
> Is there a 'magic' drill for this kind of thing?

There are two. 1" is about the size when I'd be unsure which to
recommend.

If you use a decent SDS drill with a 1" impact bit, then you can drill
this easily enough. A "decent" SDS drill (frequently discussed here)
is one with at least moderate power (you don't need much), _MUST_ have
a rotary stop, must have good low-power control on the trigger, should
have a hammer / chisel stop, should have a rotary lock, should have
multi-position rotary locks, should have an optional high-speed range
and should have interchangeable chucks rather than a chuck on an SDS
adapter.

With that much, you can batter a 1" hole through almost anything
sensible.

OTOH, the operative word is "batter". You might see a lot of breakout
damage on the far side. Is this going to be a problem for you?
Drilling in from either side first (and probably at reduced diameter)
might improve this. I'd probably put a 10mm hole clean through first
for alignment, then enlarge to 15mm, 20mm and 25mm in stages. My
smallest long drill is 8mm, but it doesn't clear dust very well.

If you want a neat hole, and in anything more than 1", then I'd look
at core drills instead. Your good SDS ought to be capable of driving
these, provided it has a hammer stop and good low-speed torque.
Otherwise buy / hire a real low-speed high-torque drill with a side-
handle (Kress from Wickes is the most affordable).

For 1", I think you could do it successfully either way. Any bigger
and I'd go with a core though.

If you have a house, you won't regret buying a decent SDS drill. My
AEG cost £200 some years ago and I regard it as one of my most
worthwhile tool purchases. You can get nearly as much for a whole lot
less these days.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 00:59:48 +0100, "fred"  wrote:


>Is there a 'magic' drill for this kind of thing?
>Is 10mm microbore worth bothering with?
>
I use a hammer drill and a long 10mm drill to go right throught the
brickwork so I get a guide. Then I get a hammer and long cold chisel
of the appropriate width and spend about 20* minutes cutting a hole.
Hit the chisel, rotate it 180 degrees,  hit it again. Repeat until
through. A star drill is better and the technique the same but they
seem rather hard to obtain nowadays.


Or you could buy a SDS thingy and 1inch drill for as little as £30 if
you shop around. 

* 20 minutes assumes a cavity wall and two bricks and someone who
isn't a physical wreck

"Alang"  wrote in message 
news:nl60a4pl9bpeh5ak43ph6f1t4api8d3b9r@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 00:59:48 +0100, "fred"  wrote:
>
>
>>Is there a 'magic' drill for this kind of thing?
>>Is 10mm microbore worth bothering with?
>>
> I use a hammer drill and a long 10mm drill to go right throught the
> brickwork so I get a guide. Then I get a hammer and long cold chisel
> of the appropriate width and spend about 20* minutes cutting a hole.
> Hit the chisel, rotate it 180 degrees,  hit it again. Repeat until
> through. A star drill is better and the technique the same but they
> seem rather hard to obtain nowadays.
>
>
> Or you could buy a SDS thingy and 1inch drill for as little as £30 if
> you shop around.
>

Maybe I'm too simple (!) I just use a 25mm bit with an undersized shaft in 
my hammer drill. Not had any problem with brick so far and it takes less 
than 20min.


-- 
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

In message , Vortex2 
 writes
>A couple of years ago I purchased a set of 900mm long SDS masonry bits.
>Perfect for drilling holes through thick walls, and also dynamiting
>rock-faces.
Which B&Q supplies the required stuff for that then?
>
>
>D
>
>
>

-- 
Clint Sharp

"fred"  wrote in message 
news:02ea7ba7$0$26410$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Is there a 'magic' drill for this kind of thing?
> Is 10mm microbore worth bothering with?

S/fix are seklling a Ryobi SDS for £38.  Then get the right sized drill bit.

Doctor Drivel wrote:
> "fred"  wrote in message
> news:02ea7ba7$0$26410$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>> Is there a 'magic' drill for this kind of thing?
>> Is 10mm microbore worth bothering with?
>
> S/fix are seklling a Ryobi SDS for £38.  Then get the right sized
> drill bit.

And a very nice piece of kit it is.  Only 2 function mind, but for £39 its 
great value.  I bought one to keep as a 'clean' SDS for use in posh houses 
when drilling for curtain poles above windows.


-- 
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:56:55 +0100, Bob Mannix wrote:

> Maybe I'm too simple (!) I just use a 25mm bit with an undersized shaft 
> in my hammer drill. Not had any problem with brick so far and it takes 
> less than 20min.

A lot depends on your bricks soft red ones will yield (slowly) to a normal 
hammer drill, hard ones you'll just end up with a blunt drill, deaf and 
hardly a mark on the brick.

By comparision and SDS would blast a 1" hole through a soft red brick in 
about 20 seconds. "Blast" being the operative word you have to ease off 
when coming to the far side other wise you will blast of the face of the 
brick a few inches in dia and up to half an inch deep.

I put a couple of 1" holes through the 18" thick stone walls here in 5 to 
10 mins each with my SDS drill. It would have been quicker but for some 
reason I didn't notice it was rotating the wrong way. I did wonder why 
there were no puffs of dust coming out of then hole though.  B-)

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:05:08 +0100, Clint Sharp wrote:

> In message , Vortex2 
>  writes
>>A couple of years ago I purchased a set of 900mm long SDS masonry bits.
>>Perfect for drilling holes through thick walls, and also dynamiting
>>rock-faces.
> Which B&Q supplies the required stuff for that then?

No, it might be misused for clearing drains




;-)

-- 
John Stumbles

Testiculate [v.t]
    To wave one's arms around while talking bollocks.

"Clint Sharp"  wrote in message 
news:HGrOctHUcEoIFwbE@clintsmc.demon.co.uk...
> In message , Vortex2 
>  writes
>>A couple of years ago I purchased a set of 900mm long SDS masonry bits.
>>Perfect for drilling holes through thick walls, and also dynamiting
>>rock-faces.
> Which B&Q supplies the required stuff for that then?
>>
>>
>>D
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Clint Sharp


DIY dynamite.  That would be fun.

I'm reluctant to google for such stuff because I expect it would result in 
attention from security services.

In my yoof did some experiments with Weedkiller and caster sugar.  Very 
exciting.

On 12 Aug, 09:02, "Vortex2" 
wrote:

> DIY dynamite.  That would be fun.

Try "Rockchop"

Not sure what the 22mm copper is for - water or gas?

SDS will go through fine.
Unfortunately it can cause spalling on the other side and the hole may
not be as straight as required for rigid piping. To stop the drill
wandering you need to hold the drill still (as with rawlplugs), but
you may still wander due to bricks varying from soft outer to
exceptionally hard centres, broken engineering brick re-used and wall
ties in the drills path. All enough to deflect it - requiring a larger
hole like 26-28mm to absorb the wander.

Diamond core will cut a near perfectly straight hole.
28mm in 300mm & 400mm diamond core is £15 on Ebay, 22mm & 25mm exist
but very rare/expensive in 300/400mm.
Do not let the bit chatter, particularly if the segments are well
spaced & brazed on as they can snap (rare).

If this is gas you need to sleeve the pipe - especially if the inner
wall is cinder block. That requires a larger hole anyway, sleeve it,
pipe thro hole, fire rated sealant on inside, outer left open to allow
any leak to vent, no join in the sleeve, sleeve angled down slightly
to drain.

If water you may want to sleeve with 25mm conduit (bore is probably
just over 22mm), might make replacement easier.

SDS are wonderful things, but for precise deep holes diamond cores can
do a better job.

In message , Vortex2 
 writes
>DIY dynamite.  That would be fun.
>
>I'm reluctant to google for such stuff because I expect it would result in
>attention from security services.
>
>In my yoof did some experiments with Weedkiller and caster sugar.  Very
>exciting.
>
>
Allegedly icing sugar was better. Of course ANFO is sooo easy as well.
-- 
Clint Sharp

On 11 aug, 02:32, "The Medway Handyman"
 wrote:
> fred wrote:
> > Is there a 'magic' drill for this kind of thing?
> > Is 10mm microbore worth bothering with?
>
> You need an SDS drill.  The Makitahttp://www.screwfix.com/prods/99908/Power-Tools/SDS-Drills/Makita-240...
> is an example of a top quality tool, you can buy cheapo's from the sheds.
>
> --
> Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

I have a supplementary question about terminology.
Is SDS the right description for these types of hammer drill?
I thought SDS was simply the way of fixing the drill bit into the
(SDS) chuck; a Bosch introduction IIRC.
The real feature of this class of drill is the way the hammer is
produced - electro-pneumatic, I believe?
I recently rented a Bosch one and there was no comparison with my
standard but powerful Hitachi hammer drill:
the tough, old concrete turned into proverbial butter.
So shouldn't we call them electro-pneumatic hammer drills?  (EPHD for
short?)
Can someone clarify this?

Rob wrote:
> On 11 aug, 02:32, "The Medway Handyman"
>  wrote:
>> fred wrote:
>>> Is there a 'magic' drill for this kind of thing?
>>> Is 10mm microbore worth bothering with?
>> You need an SDS drill.  The Makitahttp://www.screwfix.com/prods/99908/Power-Tools/SDS-Drills/Makita-240...
>> is an example of a top quality tool, you can buy cheapo's from the sheds.
>>
>> --
>> Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk
> 
> I have a supplementary question about terminology.
> Is SDS the right description for these types of hammer drill?
> I thought SDS was simply the way of fixing the drill bit into the
> (SDS) chuck; a Bosch introduction IIRC.
> The real feature of this class of drill is the way the hammer is
> produced - electro-pneumatic, I believe?
> I recently rented a Bosch one and there was no comparison with my
> standard but powerful Hitachi hammer drill:
> the tough, old concrete turned into proverbial butter.
> So shouldn't we call them electro-pneumatic hammer drills?  (EPHD for
> short?)
> Can someone clarify this?

AIUI:

The chuck fitting is the thing that should be called SDS.
They work as you suggest.
They cut through walls like butter - yes.
Maybe - *but* we would then need to call them EPHD(SDS+) and EPHD(SDS 
Max) - which is a pain. So I am happy to stick with SDS - context 
usually identifies whether it is drill/hammer or jigsaw.

Have you now got clarified butter?

-- 
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious 
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

On 13 Aug, 13:51, Rob  wrote:

> Is SDS the right description for these types of hammer drill?
> I thought SDS was simply the way of fixing the drill bit into the
> (SDS) chuck; a Bosch introduction IIRC.

It is. A drill bit firmly-clamped against rotation, but still allowing
the bit to slide axially for hammering. The "gimmick" here is that the
hammer can hit the drill bit without lost impulse and also that
because the chuck isn't being hammered as well, you can apply more
hammering force to the drillbit without shaking the chuck loose.

> The real feature of this class of drill is the way the hammer is
> produced - electro-pneumatic, I believe?

Not necessarily - and not covered (AFAIR) by the patent. It used to be
the popular way of doing things, less so now.

On 13 Aug, 13:51, Rob  wrote:

> I thought SDS was simply the way of fixing the drill bit into the
> (SDS) chuck; a Bosch introduction IIRC.

Here's the original 1978 patent for SDS (the USA one, as that has a
more readable record)
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US4123074&F=0

"A hammer drill has a chuck forming a tool receptacle defining a chuck
axis and provided with a tool-holding element radially displaceable
into a position protruding into the tool receptacle. The tool has a
shank defining a tool axis receivable axially in the receptacle. This
shank is formed with a radially outwardly open recess closed at both
of its axial ends and shaped to receive the tool-holding element, and
with an axially extending groove separate from the recess and open
axially at a free end of the shank. At least a section of the shank
has a conical shape decreasing in a direction towards the free end of
the shank. The shank may be provided with at least one cylindrical
guiding section located adjacent to the above conical section."

As for any well-drafted patents, its claims are simple and separate.
This patent is for a chuck, not a drill, not a particularly way of
generating hammer blows. No doubt Bosch do have patents on these other
things, but they'll be separate patents - that way it's not so easy to
dodge an SDS chuck patent by arguing that your implementation of the
chuck isn't electro-pneumatic, thus isn't covered and doesn't
infringe. The abstract doesn't clearly describe the use when
hammering, but it's in the description.

Bosch hold a _huge_ number of patents on slight variations of the SDS
idea. Here's one that's very similar, but the bits have ribs as well
as grooves.
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP2212005&F=0

Others used flats:
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=SK89896&F=0

Or ridges, grooves, threads or even 3-fold symmmetry so as to be
compatible with Jacobs chucks (I've used these - they're horrible. If
it slips a little, it lines up with the jaws and falls out!)

As to electro-pneumatic hammers, then take a look here
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB446939