Dear all,

I am involved with a charity which does horse riding for disabled adults 
and children. They have around 15 horses and ponies which generates a 
fair amount of dirty rugs, saddle cloths etc. Currently these are washed 
in a domestic washing machine which outputs to a septic tank. The septic 
tanks also serves a rarely used toilet, shower and sink which are all 
located in a small prefab building. This septic tank has never worked 
well, and always smells when the washing machine pumps the waste water 
to it or if you flush the toilet. This is despite annual desludging.

Elsewhere on the site is a new building which is served by a biodisc 
sewage treatment plant. This works extremely well and has done for years 
as it has been in place to deal with the waste water from the stable 
block. We are thinking of moving the washing machine so that to a feed 
room in the stable block so that its waste water goes to the biodisc 
which we hope will be able to deal with it better.

The washing machine is used irregularly, some days not at all and then 
four or five loads in a day if horses have been out at competitions etc. 
I realise that this is a bad idea for the septic tank but it is rather 
difficult to ensure that loads are spread out as much of the washing is 
done by volunteers who are only there at certain times.

I am not sure what sort of detergent is safest for the septic tank, I 
have read that biologial detergents upset the biomass and also that the 
filler in powder sludges up the tank, is non bio liquid the best option?

Is this likely to upset the biodisc in the same way it has upset the 
other septic tank or will it cope better as it has the benefit of 
greater dilution?

Is any type of filter on the washing machine waste necessary as there is 
often a lot of horse hair on the items being washed which could clog up 
the ouflow from the biodisc? The washing machine has its own filter 
which is cleaned every few loads.

Any comments appreciated.

James
-- 
James Frayne

AFAIK most domestic users don't take any particular precautions with
washing machines - I certainly didn't with my old house using a
processing tank.

The only particular precaution is avoiding a lot of bleach - but
that's more a toilet issue.

It may be possible to have an aeration pump fitted to the old septic
tank. This is what I had to do with mine, as the drainage field was
clogged -I found a company specialising in these retrofits, though
can't remember their name.

James Frayne wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I am involved with a charity which does horse riding for disabled adults 
> and children. They have around 15 horses and ponies which generates a 
> fair amount of dirty rugs, saddle cloths etc. Currently these are washed 
> in a domestic washing machine which outputs to a septic tank. The septic 
> tanks also serves a rarely used toilet, shower and sink which are all 
> located in a small prefab building. This septic tank has never worked 
> well, and always smells when the washing machine pumps the waste water 
> to it or if you flush the toilet. This is despite annual desludging.
> 
> Elsewhere on the site is a new building which is served by a biodisc 
> sewage treatment plant. This works extremely well and has done for years 
> as it has been in place to deal with the waste water from the stable 
> block. We are thinking of moving the washing machine so that to a feed 
> room in the stable block so that its waste water goes to the biodisc 
> which we hope will be able to deal with it better.
> 
> The washing machine is used irregularly, some days not at all and then 
> four or five loads in a day if horses have been out at competitions etc. 
> I realise that this is a bad idea for the septic tank but it is rather 
> difficult to ensure that loads are spread out as much of the washing is 
> done by volunteers who are only there at certain times.
> 
> I am not sure what sort of detergent is safest for the septic tank, I 
> have read that biologial detergents upset the biomass and also that the 
> filler in powder sludges up the tank, is non bio liquid the best option?
> 
> Is this likely to upset the biodisc in the same way it has upset the 
> other septic tank or will it cope better as it has the benefit of 
> greater dilution?
> 
> Is any type of filter on the washing machine waste necessary as there is 
> often a lot of horse hair on the items being washed which could clog up 
> the ouflow from the biodisc? The washing machine has its own filter 
> which is cleaned every few loads.
> 
> Any comments appreciated.
> 
> James
I have shoved all manner of stuff including caustic down my drains to 
the biodisc: it has never smelt - except when the pulley fell of the 
motor shaft! A lot of water goes down it as well mind you.

My conclusion is, these are rugged tolerant beasties.

If i ever get a property with a three chamber tank again, I will 
immediately replace it with a biodisc.

On 2008-07-19 06:07:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>> 
> I have shoved all manner of stuff including caustic down my drains to 
> the biodisc: it has never smelt - except when the pulley fell of the 
> motor shaft! A lot of water goes down it as well mind you.
> 
> My conclusion is, these are rugged tolerant beasties.
> 
> If i ever get a property with a three chamber tank again, I will 
> immediately replace it with a biodisc.

What's a biodisc?  Some kind of stirring and oxygenation mechanism?

Andy Hall wrote:
> On 2008-07-19 06:07:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>>>
>> I have shoved all manner of stuff including caustic down my drains to 
>> the biodisc: it has never smelt - except when the pulley fell of the 
>> motor shaft! A lot of water goes down it as well mind you.
>>
>> My conclusion is, these are rugged tolerant beasties.
>>
>> If i ever get a property with a three chamber tank again, I will 
>> immediately replace it with a biodisc.
> 
> What's a biodisc?  Some kind of stirring and oxygenation mechanism?
> 
> 
> 
Er..yes. Exactly that. Gosh Andy, we've had lots of threads on them.

It may actually be a trademark of Klargester..anyway a google of 
'Klargester' should net you more info than you ever wanted.


If you have a 3 chamber type that isn't doing too well, they cost 
between £5k and £10k to install, depending on who does it, and how big 
you need.

Can't recommend them enough. You also save on water rates.

On 2008-07-19 08:29:01 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:

> Andy Hall wrote:
>> On 2008-07-19 06:07:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>>>> 
>>> I have shoved all manner of stuff including caustic down my drains to 
>>> the biodisc: it has never smelt - except when the pulley fell of the 
>>> motor shaft! A lot of water goes down it as well mind you.
>>> 
>>> My conclusion is, these are rugged tolerant beasties.
>>> 
>>> If i ever get a property with a three chamber tank again, I will 
>>> immediately replace it with a biodisc.
>> 
>> What's a biodisc?  Some kind of stirring and oxygenation mechanism?
>> 
>> 
>> 
> Er..yes. Exactly that. Gosh Andy, we've had lots of threads on them.
> 
> It may actually be a trademark of Klargester..anyway a google of 
> 'Klargester' should net you more info than you ever wanted.

Ah right.  Do you think that this might also make them more tolerant to 
chemical additions?



> 
> 
> If you have a 3 chamber type that isn't doing too well, they cost 
> between £5k and £10k to install, depending on who does it, and how big 
> you need.
> 
> Can't recommend them enough. You also save on water rates.

Because less water used or do you mean the output is less toxic or ??

Andy Hall wrote:
> On 2008-07-19 08:29:01 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
> 
>> Andy Hall wrote:
>>> On 2008-07-19 06:07:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>>>>>
>>>> I have shoved all manner of stuff including caustic down my drains 
>>>> to the biodisc: it has never smelt - except when the pulley fell of 
>>>> the motor shaft! A lot of water goes down it as well mind you.
>>>>
>>>> My conclusion is, these are rugged tolerant beasties.
>>>>
>>>> If i ever get a property with a three chamber tank again, I will 
>>>> immediately replace it with a biodisc.
>>>
>>> What's a biodisc?  Some kind of stirring and oxygenation mechanism?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Er..yes. Exactly that. Gosh Andy, we've had lots of threads on them.
>>
>> It may actually be a trademark of Klargester..anyway a google of 
>> 'Klargester' should net you more info than you ever wanted.
> 
> Ah right.  Do you think that this might also make them more tolerant to 
> chemical additions?
> 
> 
> 
>>
>>
>> If you have a 3 chamber type that isn't doing too well, they cost 
>> between £5k and £10k to install, depending on who does it, and how big 
>> you need.
>>
>> Can't recommend them enough. You also save on water rates.
> 
> Because less water used or do you mean the output is less toxic or ??
> 
> 
> 
output just doesn't smell!

I can't getr too worked up about dumping organic laden water into the 
groundwater, as the counytryside here is covered in bird crap, dog crap, 
cat crap. miuse crap, rabbit crap,  bee crap, fox crap, deer crap..you 
name it, we have it, and two humans crap isn't going to make a deal of 
difference IMHO.


But I have abused mine remorselessly and it still works. Plaater and 
cement dust..caustic...hydrochloric etc.

It uses what water you put down it and allegedly produces potable water 
at the far end.

On 2008-07-19 11:31:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>> 
> output just doesn't smell!
> 
> I can't getr too worked up about dumping organic laden water into the 
> groundwater, as the counytryside here is covered in bird crap, dog 
> crap, cat crap. miuse crap, rabbit crap,  bee crap, fox crap, deer 
> crap..you name it, we have it, and two humans crap isn't going to make 
> a deal of difference IMHO.
> 
> 
> But I have abused mine remorselessly and it still works. Plaater and 
> cement dust..caustic...hydrochloric etc.
> 
> It uses what water you put down it and allegedly produces potable water 
> at the far end.

So do you get reduced charges as a result of better purity of effluent?

Andy Hall wrote:
> On 2008-07-19 11:31:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>>>
>> output just doesn't smell!
>>
>> I can't getr too worked up about dumping organic laden water into the 
>> groundwater, as the counytryside here is covered in bird crap, dog 
>> crap, cat crap. miuse crap, rabbit crap,  bee crap, fox crap, deer 
>> crap..you name it, we have it, and two humans crap isn't going to make 
>> a deal of difference IMHO.
>>
>>
>> But I have abused mine remorselessly and it still works. Plaater and 
>> cement dust..caustic...hydrochloric etc.
>>
>> It uses what water you put down it and allegedly produces potable 
>> water at the far end.
> 
> So do you get reduced charges as a result of better purity of effluent?
> 
> 
You get reduced charges for not using the council supplied sewage 
services at ALL.

On 19 Jul, 11:40, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:
> Andy Hall wrote:
> > On 2008-07-19 11:31:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> said:
>
> >> output just doesn't smell!
>
> >> I can't getr too worked up about dumping organic laden water into the
> >> groundwater, as the counytryside here is covered in bird crap, dog
> >> crap, cat crap. miuse crap, rabbit crap,  bee crap, fox crap, deer
> >> crap..you name it, we have it, and two humans crap isn't going to make
> >> a deal of difference IMHO.
>
> >> But I have abused mine remorselessly and it still works. Plaater and
> >> cement dust..caustic...hydrochloric etc.
>
> >> It uses what water you put down it and allegedly produces potable
> >> water at the far end.
>
> > So do you get reduced charges as a result of better purity of effluent?
>
> You get reduced charges for not using the council supplied sewage
> services at ALL.

hi
It seems we may be missing a trick here with our septic tank system  -
care to elaborate on the reduced charges for not using council
services bit?
ta
Jim

On 2008-07-19 11:40:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:

> Andy Hall wrote:
>> On 2008-07-19 11:31:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>>>> 
>>> output just doesn't smell!
>>> 
>>> I can't getr too worked up about dumping organic laden water into the 
>>> groundwater, as the counytryside here is covered in bird crap, dog 
>>> crap, cat crap. miuse crap, rabbit crap,  bee crap, fox crap, deer 
>>> crap..you name it, we have it, and two humans crap isn't going to make 
>>> a deal of difference IMHO.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But I have abused mine remorselessly and it still works. Plaater and 
>>> cement dust..caustic...hydrochloric etc.
>>> 
>>> It uses what water you put down it and allegedly produces potable water 
>>> at the far end.
>> 
>> So do you get reduced charges as a result of better purity of effluent?
>> 
>> 
> You get reduced charges for not using the council supplied sewage 
> services at ALL.

So where do the effluent solids go?

Andy Hall wrote:
> On 2008-07-19 11:40:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
> 
>> Andy Hall wrote:
>>> On 2008-07-19 11:31:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>>>>>
>>>> output just doesn't smell!
>>>>
>>>> I can't getr too worked up about dumping organic laden water into 
>>>> the groundwater, as the counytryside here is covered in bird crap, 
>>>> dog crap, cat crap. miuse crap, rabbit crap,  bee crap, fox crap, 
>>>> deer crap..you name it, we have it, and two humans crap isn't going 
>>>> to make a deal of difference IMHO.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But I have abused mine remorselessly and it still works. Plaater and 
>>>> cement dust..caustic...hydrochloric etc.
>>>>
>>>> It uses what water you put down it and allegedly produces potable 
>>>> water at the far end.
>>>
>>> So do you get reduced charges as a result of better purity of effluent?
>>>
>>>
>> You get reduced charges for not using the council supplied sewage 
>> services at ALL.
> 
> So where do the effluent solids go?
> 
> 
every 3-4 years you pay a 100 quid for a tanker to suck teh bitch dry..;-0

Or put it on your garden I suppose. Good compost..

jim wrote:
> On 19 Jul, 11:40, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:
>> Andy Hall wrote:
>>> On 2008-07-19 11:31:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> said:
>>>> output just doesn't smell!
>>>> I can't getr too worked up about dumping organic laden water into the
>>>> groundwater, as the counytryside here is covered in bird crap, dog
>>>> crap, cat crap. miuse crap, rabbit crap,  bee crap, fox crap, deer
>>>> crap..you name it, we have it, and two humans crap isn't going to make
>>>> a deal of difference IMHO.
>>>> But I have abused mine remorselessly and it still works. Plaater and
>>>> cement dust..caustic...hydrochloric etc.
>>>> It uses what water you put down it and allegedly produces potable
>>>> water at the far end.
>>> So do you get reduced charges as a result of better purity of effluent?
>> You get reduced charges for not using the council supplied sewage
>> services at ALL.
> 
> hi
> It seems we may be missing a trick here with our septic tank system  -
> care to elaborate on the reduced charges for not using council
> services bit?
> ta
> Jim
http://www.restormel.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=4715&detailid=&articleaction=print

contact whoever you pay the water rates to, and inform them you are not 
connected to their sewage system.

On 2008-07-19 12:21:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:

> Andy Hall wrote:
>> On 2008-07-19 11:40:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>> 
>>> Andy Hall wrote:
>>>> On 2008-07-19 11:31:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>> output just doesn't smell!
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can't getr too worked up about dumping organic laden water into the 
>>>>> groundwater, as the counytryside here is covered in bird crap, dog 
>>>>> crap, cat crap. miuse crap, rabbit crap,  bee crap, fox crap, deer 
>>>>> crap..you name it, we have it, and two humans crap isn't going to make 
>>>>> a deal of difference IMHO.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> But I have abused mine remorselessly and it still works. Plaater and 
>>>>> cement dust..caustic...hydrochloric etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It uses what water you put down it and allegedly produces potable water 
>>>>> at the far end.
>>>> 
>>>> So do you get reduced charges as a result of better purity of effluent?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> You get reduced charges for not using the council supplied sewage 
>>> services at ALL.
>> 
>> So where do the effluent solids go?
>> 
>> 
> every 3-4 years you pay a 100 quid for a tanker to suck teh bitch dry..;-0

As it were

> 
> Or put it on your garden I suppose. Good compost..

I didn't think that that was legal, or is the effluent from a septic 
tank where it's not allowed?

On 19 Jul, 12:25, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:
> jim wrote:
> > On 19 Jul, 11:40, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> wrote:
> >> Andy Hall wrote:
> >>> On 2008-07-19 11:31:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a...@b.c> said:
> >>>> output just doesn't smell!
> >>>> I can't getr too worked up about dumping organic laden water into the
> >>>> groundwater, as the counytryside here is covered in bird crap, dog
> >>>> crap, cat crap. miuse crap, rabbit crap,  bee crap, fox crap, deer
> >>>> crap..you name it, we have it, and two humans crap isn't going to make
> >>>> a deal of difference IMHO.
> >>>> But I have abused mine remorselessly and it still works. Plaater and
> >>>> cement dust..caustic...hydrochloric etc.
> >>>> It uses what water you put down it and allegedly produces potable
> >>>> water at the far end.
> >>> So do you get reduced charges as a result of better purity of effluent?
> >> You get reduced charges for not using the council supplied sewage
> >> services at ALL.
>
> > hi
> > It seems we may be missing a trick here with our septic tank system  -
> > care to elaborate on the reduced charges for not using council
> > services bit?
> > ta
> > Jim
>
> http://www.restormel.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=4715&detailid=&articl...
>
> contact whoever you pay the water rates to, and inform them you are not
> connected to their sewage system.

ah.. ok not the local council then.. ta for clarifying
jim

Andy Hall wrote:
> On 2008-07-19 12:21:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
> 
>> Andy Hall wrote:
>>> On 2008-07-19 11:40:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>>>
>>>> Andy Hall wrote:
>>>>> On 2008-07-19 11:31:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> output just doesn't smell!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't getr too worked up about dumping organic laden water into 
>>>>>> the groundwater, as the counytryside here is covered in bird crap, 
>>>>>> dog crap, cat crap. miuse crap, rabbit crap,  bee crap, fox crap, 
>>>>>> deer crap..you name it, we have it, and two humans crap isn't 
>>>>>> going to make a deal of difference IMHO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I have abused mine remorselessly and it still works. Plaater 
>>>>>> and cement dust..caustic...hydrochloric etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It uses what water you put down it and allegedly produces potable 
>>>>>> water at the far end.
>>>>>
>>>>> So do you get reduced charges as a result of better purity of 
>>>>> effluent?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> You get reduced charges for not using the council supplied sewage 
>>>> services at ALL.
>>>
>>> So where do the effluent solids go?
>>>
>>>
>> every 3-4 years you pay a 100 quid for a tanker to suck teh bitch 
>> dry..;-0
> 
> As it were
> 
>>
>> Or put it on your garden I suppose. Good compost..
> 
> I didn't think that that was legal, or is the effluent from a septic 
> tank where it's not allowed?
> 
> 
I don't suppose it is legal, at that.


Since it takes a policeman about 2 days to get here, I cant see that 
being much of an issue though.

On 2008-07-19 16:29:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
> 
> 
> Since it takes a policeman about 2 days to get here, I cant see that 
> being much of an issue though.

I thought you had roads in Suffolk now :-)

Andy Hall wrote:
> On 2008-07-19 16:29:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>>
>>
>> Since it takes a policeman about 2 days to get here, I cant see that 
>> being much of an issue though.
> 
> I thought you had roads in Suffolk now :-)
> 
> 
I've scanned through this thread and no one seems to have mentioned 
biological washing powder/liquid.  It is important not to use biological 
as that kills the beneficial bacteria that break down the effluent. 
incidentally a good septic tank rarely needs emptying if it is installed 
correctly, the solids break down under biological action. During the war 
my parents tank was not emptied, in fact it was well into the 50s from 
1936 before it was. when you get it emptied you should get a certificate 
from the company stating that it was correctly disposed of. The local 
farmer will do ours for a mere £20 cheaper, then dumps it on his fields, 
not a good idea.

On 20 Jul, 11:45, Broadback  wrote:

> The local
> farmer will do ours for a mere £20 cheaper, then dumps it on his fields> not a good idea.

but is there a decent logical reason why not though?
surely after 20 odd years the waste will indeed have broken down by
microbial action etc and simply require re-inserting into nature's
perpetual cycle? as the saying round here goes:- sh1te is sh1te after
all....

On 20 Jul, 11:45, Broadback  wrote:

> The local
> farmer will do ours for a mere £20 cheaper, then dumps it on his fields> not a good idea.

but is there a decent logical reason why not though?
surely after 20 odd years the waste will indeed have broken down by
microbial action etc and simply require re-inserting into nature's
perpetual cycle? as the saying round here goes:- sh1te is sh1te after
all....

"jim"  wrote in message 
news:d1ca112f-abad-4e7d-b36e-14f5d5b54167@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On 20 Jul, 11:45, Broadback  wrote:
>
>> The local
>> farmer will do ours for a mere £20 cheaper, then dumps it on his fields,
>> not a good idea.
>

> but is there a decent logical reason why not though?
> surely after 20 odd years the waste will indeed have broken down by
> microbial action etc and simply require re-inserting into nature's
> perpetual cycle? as the saying round here goes:- sh1te is sh1te after
> all....

Snowie have been doing it all over Scotland for years, they inject it into 
the soil, but same difference.


-- 
Keith 

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Broadback wrote:
> Andy Hall wrote:
>> On 2008-07-19 16:29:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> said:
>>>
>>>
>>> Since it takes a policeman about 2 days to get here, I cant see that 
>>> being much of an issue though.
>>
>> I thought you had roads in Suffolk now :-)
>>
>>
> I've scanned through this thread and no one seems to have mentioned 
> biological washing powder/liquid.  It is important not to use biological 
> as that kills the beneficial bacteria that break down the effluent. 

well my wife does, and it hasn't.

> incidentally a good septic tank rarely needs emptying if it is installed 
> correctly, the solids break down under biological action. During the war 
> my parents tank was not emptied, in fact it was well into the 50s from 
> 1936 before it was. when you get it emptied you should get a certificate 
> from the company stating that it was correctly disposed of. The local 
> farmer will do ours for a mere £20 cheaper, then dumps it on his fields, 
> not a good idea.

you are supposed to do it every year, but this one seems to be good for 
5 years at least.

On 2008-07-20, jim  wrote:
> On 20 Jul, 11:45, Broadback  wrote:
>
>> The local
>> farmer will do ours for a mere £20 cheaper, then dumps it on his fields,
>> not a good idea.
>
> but is there a decent logical reason why not though?

Particularly since the local water company have an arrangement with the farmer
whose farm I live on and they plough sewage sludge into the fields every 2 or 3
years. I can see (but not smell) a "heap" of the stuff - many hundreds of tonnes
- from where I'm sitting, waiting for the ploughing season in the autumn. It's a
tad whiffy when they spread it out, but stops as soon as it's ploughed under.


-- 
          "Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
                 and presumptuous desire for a second one."
               [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

Huge wrote:
> On 2008-07-20, jim  wrote:
>> On 20 Jul, 11:45, Broadback  wrote:
>>
>>> The local
>>> farmer will do ours for a mere £20 cheaper, then dumps it on his fields,
>>> not a good idea.
>> but is there a decent logical reason why not though?
> 
> Particularly since the local water company have an arrangement with the farmer
> whose farm I live on and they plough sewage sludge into the fields every 2 or 3
> years. I can see (but not smell) a "heap" of the stuff - many hundreds of tonnes
> - from where I'm sitting, waiting for the ploughing season in the autumn. It's a
> tad whiffy when they spread it out, but stops as soon as it's ploughed under.
> 
> 
When I had the old septic tank, going deep into the clay anywhere near 
its outfall with a spade was distinctly whiffy.


It's amazing how little smell the aerobic bacteria leave, as compared 
with the anaerobes.