Another article for your comments....


[[image:Wallplugs 175-2.jpg|400px]]


==Plugs for solid masonry==
===Standard plug===
[[image:Basic wallplug 175-2.jpg|thumb]]
The standard moulded plastic wallplug is by far the most popular
option. These come with recommended hole and [[Screws|screw]] sizes,
and are simple to use.

Different sizes are often colour coded, but different brands don't all
follow the same colour code.

===Fibre plugs===
[[image:Fibre wallplug 175-2.jpg|thumb]]
Fibre plugs are straight sided compacted fibre plugs.

===Lipless plug===
[[image:Lipless wallplug 175-2.jpg|thumb]]
Plugs with no lip are good when using 2 moulded plugs in a hole.

===Sticks===
[[image:Image coming.jpg|thumb]]
Long sticks are no longer common, but are still available. This allows
you to cut a plug of any length. They come in plastic or fibre, about
a foot long.

===Sheet metal plugs===
These are made from contorted thin sheet metal, and are fire
resistant. In soft masonry they have a lower pullout rating than a
plastic plug.

===Metal expanding plug===
These use 2 cast halves of metal than expand when a bolt is [[Screws|
screwed]] in. Not suited to use with regular wood [[screws]]. These
put high forces on the masonry, so should not be used near edges.


==Plugs for hollow walls==

===Expanding plastic plug===
The cheapest type of hollow wall plug, these look similar to regular
plastic plugs, but expand behind the [[Sheet Materials|plasterboard]]
when [[Screws|screwed]] into. Some can be used with both solid and
[[Partition Wall|hollow walls]].

===Redidrive===
[[image:Redi wallplug 176-3.jpg|thumb]]
Available in metal and plastic, these [[Screws|screw]] into the
[[Sheet Materials|plasterboard]].

===Hammer in===
[[image:Hammer in wall plugs 176-3.jpg|thumb]]
2 sheet metal legs spread when [[Screws|screw]] inserted. No hole is
drilled, they're just [[Hammers|hammered]] into position, making work
fast. Load rating so-so.

===Spring & gravity toggle===
[[image:Toggle wallplugs 177-3.jpg|thumb]]
Both types of toggle use a metal bar behind the [[Sheet Materials|
plasterboard]] to take the load. Gives a fairly good load rating for
static loads. With dynamic loads, such as coathooks, these tend to
gradually eat through the plasterboard until they eventually fail.

===Lightweight things===
[[image:Lightweight expanding walplugs 176-3.jpg|thumb]]

===Expanding bolt===
[[image|These wallplugs 178-3.jpg|thumb]]



==Better than hollow wall plugs==
Hollow wall plug fixings are only ever as strong as the [[Sheet
Materials|plasterboard]]. Where greater strength is necessary:
* fix through to solid masonry behind the plasterboard, if there is
any
* fix to an upright or nogging on [[Partition Wall|frame walls]]
* Replace the [[Sheet Materials|plasterboard]] with [[Sheet
Materials#Plywood|plywood]], or fit ply to the surface
* Fix to floor instead







==Misnomers==
Rawlplug is a well known brand of wallplug.
'Raw plug' is often heard too.


==Methods==
The standard method is to drill the hole size recommended, blow dust
from the hole, insert the plug full depth, and use a [[Screws|screw]]
of the thickness recommended. Of course this isn't the only option.

===Other screw sizes===
Where grip is likely to be poor, a thicker than recommended [[Screws|
screw]] can increase compression on the plug and thus grip.

A thinner than recommneded [[Screws|screw]] can be used to ease
driving where the recommended size is too tight.

===Reduced hole size===
Soft masonry tends to produce a hoole bigger than the drill bit. A
drill bit half a mm smaller helps keep things tight.

===2 plugs===
For a stronger fixing, a deep hole & 2 plugs are used. This is
especially useful in soft masonry, and where the surface layer is
weak, eg crumbly plaster.

===Packing===
Uneven or oversize holes will need packing to make them work. This is
easiest done with matchsticks, but split wallplugs are also good.


==Troubles==
===It just keeps turning===
If a wallplug just turns instead of tightening, the following
sometimes work:

* Blow dust out and reinsert plug
* Use a bigger plug that fits tighter
* Fill hole with filler, and when set re-drill
* Pack something round the plug before reinserting
* [[Hammers|Hammer]] matchsticks into all available gaps. Matchsticks
leave a lot of gaps so you need to pack every avaailable gap. Insert
[[Screws|screw]], remove it again and hammer more matchsticsk in. Now
you'll get a good strong bite.
* Insert resin glue into hole, refit plug, let set.

===Hole is oversize or misshapen==
Either:
* Drill deeper and use 2 plugs to get a deep fixing.
* Blow all debris out of hole, fill with interior filler, try again
tomorrow.
* Use resin, with or without plug

===Hole keeps crumbling===
Blow all debris out of hole, fill with interior filler, try again
tomorrow.

===Plug & screw pulls out===
If the whole fixing pulls out after the [[Screws|screw]] is in, then
the plug & screw are too small for the hole.
* Pack the plug
* Use a much thicker screw
* Use a thicker plug if it'll fit
* fill the hole and retry once set
* Use resin

===Screw jams===
[[Screws|Screw]] too thick for plug & hole. Use a thinner screw, or
possibly a thinner plug or slightly increased hole size.

===Hollow wall plug pulled out===
That's life, [[Sheet Materials|plasterboard]] isn't very strong. Some
hollow plugs grip more area of plasterboard than others, but if these
aren't tough enough you'll need to fix to something stronger than
plasterboard. That could be
* solid masonry behind a gap behind the plasterboard
* [[Partition Wall|wood or metal frame]]
* [[Sheet Materials#Plywood|sheet ply]] on the wall
* fix to the floor
* in extremis build a wood frame fixed to floor & ceiling, and fix to
that.
* or use a free standing appliance instead


==When plugs don't work==
There are a couple of wall materials where plugs won't work no matter
what. These include earth & straw walls. In these cases another fixing
method altogether is needed, normally one where the load is supported
by the floor instead of the wall.

In some cases using a timber frame fixed to floor and ceiling is about
the only safe option. This is true for example of a large screen TV
mounted to the wall.


==Plug Material==
Plastic is most popular and the cheapest. Plastics are vulnerable to
heat, and in a fire all plastic plugged fixings can be exected to
collapse. Plastics aren't affteced by water, making them good for
outdoor use.

Nylon plugs are tougher than lower cost plastic, and support a greater
load.

Metal plugs have much better fire resistance, but are vulnerable to
rust outdoors. They give a weaker fixing than plastic in soft masonry,
and a stronger fixing than plastic in high strength masonry.

Wood plugs have better fire resistance than plastic. They're
vulnerable to [[Wood Rot|rot]] if they get wet, so not good for
outdoor use.

Fibre plugs are tougher than plastic



==Wallplug substitutes==
===Commercial===
Dowel

===Ad hoc===
Bit of wood split off. [[Hammers|Hammer]] more slivers of wood into
any gaps.

Matchsticks - [[Hammers|hammer]] in & snap off. Pack them tight,
[[Screws|screw]] in, remove screw and repack.

Rolled paper - not a great performer but can work.

Card - folded card works if packed well enough.

Bits of plastic - another poor performer but can work if packed tight
enough, ie they need to be [[Hammers|hammered]] in.




==Alternatives==
* Frame fixings
* [[Screws|Masonry screw]]
* [[Nails|Masonry nail]]
* Plastic aerated concrete nail
* [[Adhesive|Resin]] fixing - higher load rating than any plug type
* Wedge (remove some mortar from between bricks,
* [[Hammers|hammer]] in wooden wedge)
* In extremis, fix to floor or ceiling instead.


==See Also==
* [[Special:Allpages|Wiki Contents]]
* [[Special:Categories|Wiki Subject Categories]]



[[Category:Fixings]]


NT

meow2222@care2.com wrote:
> Another article for your comments....
> 
<>

Suggest:

If putting up a lightweight thing on a very crumbly wall, I usually 
paint PVA onto the damaged part of the wall and down the hole and, if 
feasible, let it dry, before even inserting the plug.

When using matchsticks, I usually coat with PVA. Sometimes leave that to 
dry before inserting screw. Especially sensible if the screw is likely 
to be removed/reinserted in the future. Might be obvious, but remove 
heads...

Polyurethane is easy to use, seems to work well and is more likely to be 
lying around than 'resin'. See my post in previous thread.

Always use zinc plated (or better, e.g. tropicalised) screws. Others 
will rust in most situations - in time.

Alternatives perhaps should include adhesives for sticking something 
directly to the wall and these might include foam pads and 3M command 
products.

-- 
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious 
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

"Rod"  wrote in message 
news:6e32r2F52jmaU1@mid.individual.net...
> meow2222@care2.com wrote:
>> Another article for your comments....
>>
> <>
>
> Suggest:
>
> If putting up a lightweight thing on a very crumbly wall, I usually paint 
> PVA onto the damaged part of the wall and down the hole and, if feasible, 
> let it dry, before even inserting the plug.
>
> When using matchsticks, I usually coat with PVA. Sometimes leave that to 
> dry before inserting screw. Especially sensible if the screw is likely to 
> be removed/reinserted in the future. Might be obvious, but remove heads...
>
> Polyurethane is easy to use, seems to work well and is more likely to be 
> lying around than 'resin'. See my post in previous thread.
>
> Always use zinc plated (or better, e.g. tropicalised) screws. Others will 
> rust in most situations - in time.
>
> Alternatives perhaps should include adhesives for sticking something 
> directly to the wall and these might include foam pads and 3M command 
> products.
>
> -- 
> Rod
>
> Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious 
> onset.
> Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
> <www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

Useful article. For what its worth I have sometimes found that the old 
fashioned woodscrew was more successful as it had more of a tapered form to 
force open the wallplug - whereas a modern type of screw tends to self tap a 
thread into the plug and as the root diameter is fairly parallel it does not 
increase the tightness of the plug as it goes further into it (if you see 
what I mean).

>> Alternatives perhaps should include adhesives for sticking something
>> directly to the wall and these might include foam pads and 3M command
>> products.

Re "Uneven or oversize holes"

After all these years I suppose it is not worth adding something along 
the lines of "And if you find any Rawlplastic in the back of a cupboard, 
cherish it.  It is no longer sold (because it contains asbestos).  But 
it was wonderful stuff as it dealt with oversize holes, holes where the 
drill had wandered, .........."

More seriously, do the gurus here know a current equivalent (and car 
body filler ain't as you need to drill it)?

-- 
Robin

neverwas wrote:

> Re "Uneven or oversize holes"
> 
> [...] Rawlplastic [...]
> 
> More seriously, do the gurus here know a current equivalent (and car 
> body filler ain't as you need to drill it)?

Plug & repair:
http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=69&Itemid=34

-- 
Andy

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:41:50 GMT, "neverwas"  wrote:

>>> Alternatives perhaps should include adhesives for sticking something
>>> directly to the wall and these might include foam pads and 3M command
>>> products.
>
>Re "Uneven or oversize holes"
>
>After all these years I suppose it is not worth adding something along 
>the lines of "And if you find any Rawlplastic in the back of a cupboard, 
>cherish it.  It is no longer sold (because it contains asbestos).  But 
>it was wonderful stuff as it dealt with oversize holes, holes where the 
>drill had wandered, .........."
>
ISTR that later versions of Rawlplastic/Philplug were (allegedly)
asbestos-free.

-- 
Frank Erskine

>> More seriously, do the gurus here know a current equivalent (and car
>> body filler ain't as you need to drill it)?
>
> Plug & repair:
> http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=69&Itemid=34

Thanks.  I'll try some (if only because a 15-20 minutes break is always 
welcome).   But I hope I'll not really need to "Ensure all surfaces are 
clean
and free from grease and dust".  I liked the way rawlplastic coped with 
dust - perhaps because it went in wet.

-- 
Robin

neverwas wrote:
>>> More seriously, do the gurus here know a current equivalent (and car
>>> body filler ain't as you need to drill it)?
>> Plug & repair:
>> http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=69&Itemid=34
> 
> Thanks.  I'll try some (if only because a 15-20 minutes break is always 
> welcome).   But I hope I'll not really need to "Ensure all surfaces are 
> clean
> and free from grease and dust".  I liked the way rawlplastic coped with 
> dust - perhaps because it went in wet.
> 

Embrace the car body filler concept. You know it makes sense :-)

neverwas wrote:
>>> Alternatives perhaps should include adhesives for sticking something
>>> directly to the wall and these might include foam pads and 3M
>>> command products.
>
> Re "Uneven or oversize holes"
>
> After all these years I suppose it is not worth adding something along
> the lines of "And if you find any Rawlplastic in the back of a
> cupboard, cherish it.  It is no longer sold (because it contains
> asbestos).  But it was wonderful stuff as it dealt with oversize
> holes, holes where the drill had wandered, .........."
>
> More seriously, do the gurus here know a current equivalent (and car
> body filler ain't as you need to drill it)?

Fischer Wet N Fix.


-- 
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Andy Wade wrote:
> neverwas wrote:
> 
>> Re "Uneven or oversize holes"
>>
>> [...] Rawlplastic [...]
>>
>> More seriously, do the gurus here know a current equivalent (and car 
>> body filler ain't as you need to drill it)?
> 
> Plug & repair:
> http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=69&Itemid=34 
> 
> 
You dont need to drill CBF if you put the screws in just before its gone 
off..or poke a bit of rod down it at the same time.

"The Medway Handyman"  wrote in message 
news:l27fk.27429$E41.17304@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> neverwas wrote:
>>>> Alternatives perhaps should include adhesives for sticking something
>>>> directly to the wall and these might include foam pads and 3M
>>>> command products.
>>
>> Re "Uneven or oversize holes"
>>
>> After all these years I suppose it is not worth adding something along
>> the lines of "And if you find any Rawlplastic in the back of a
>> cupboard, cherish it.  It is no longer sold (because it contains
>> asbestos).  But it was wonderful stuff as it dealt with oversize
>> holes, holes where the drill had wandered, .........."
>>
>> More seriously, do the gurus here know a current equivalent (and car
>> body filler ain't as you need to drill it)?
>
> Fischer Wet N Fix.
>
>
> -- 
> Dave - The Medway Handyman
> www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
>
>


Surely the key requirement of a wallplug is for it to expand as the screw is 
driven in - and not just to stay in the hole. On this basis CBF with a hole 
poked in may not be ideal - unless it was to crack open and therefore wedge 
itself tightly into the hole.
Likewise - parallel (self tapping type) screws are not as effective as the 
old (No8 / No10) tapered woodscrews.

In all cases the quality of the hole is so important - I watched someone who 
waggled the drill as he removed it. I asked him why and he said he didn't 
know but he always did it - I persuaded him to keep the drill in better 
alignment and he immediately saw an improvement in his fixings.

On 2008-07-16 10:28:47 +0100, "John"  said:

> 
> "The Medway Handyman"  wrote in message
> news:l27fk.27429$E41.17304@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>> neverwas wrote:
>>>>> Alternatives perhaps should include adhesives for sticking something
>>>>> directly to the wall and these might include foam pads and 3M
>>>>> command products.
>>> 
>>> Re "Uneven or oversize holes"
>>> 
>>> After all these years I suppose it is not worth adding something along
>>> the lines of "And if you find any Rawlplastic in the back of a
>>> cupboard, cherish it.  It is no longer sold (because it contains
>>> asbestos).  But it was wonderful stuff as it dealt with oversize
>>> holes, holes where the drill had wandered, .........."
>>> 
>>> More seriously, do the gurus here know a current equivalent (and car
>>> body filler ain't as you need to drill it)?
>> 
>> Fischer Wet N Fix.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dave - The Medway Handyman
>> www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Surely the key requirement of a wallplug is for it to expand as the screw is 
> driven in - and not just to stay in the hole. On this basis CBF with a hole 
> poked in may not be ideal - unless it was to crack open and therefore wedge 
> itself tightly into the hole.
> Likewise - parallel (self tapping type) screws are not as effective as the 
> old (No8 / No10) tapered woodscrews.
> 
> In all cases the quality of the hole is so important - I watched someone who 
> waggled the drill as he removed it. I asked him why and he said he didn't 
> know but he always did it - I persuaded him to keep the drill in better 
> alignment and he immediately saw an improvement in his fixings. 

Wet N Fix is just a pad impregnated with gypsum that is wetted and sets 
quickly.

I've found that the solution of using injection resin (or UWCBF if you 
must) into the hole and followed by the plug - a chunky one with 
knobbly sides is best - works very well in all kinds of grotty 
materials.

John wrote:
> "The Medway Handyman"  wrote in message 
> news:l27fk.27429$E41.17304@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>> neverwas wrote:
>>>>> Alternatives perhaps should include adhesives for sticking something
>>>>> directly to the wall and these might include foam pads and 3M
>>>>> command products.
>>> Re "Uneven or oversize holes"
>>>
>>> After all these years I suppose it is not worth adding something along
>>> the lines of "And if you find any Rawlplastic in the back of a
>>> cupboard, cherish it.  It is no longer sold (because it contains
>>> asbestos).  But it was wonderful stuff as it dealt with oversize
>>> holes, holes where the drill had wandered, .........."
>>>
>>> More seriously, do the gurus here know a current equivalent (and car
>>> body filler ain't as you need to drill it)?
>> Fischer Wet N Fix.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Dave - The Medway Handyman
>> www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Surely the key requirement of a wallplug is for it to expand as the screw is 
> driven in - and not just to stay in the hole. On this basis CBF with a hole 
> poked in may not be ideal - unless it was to crack open and therefore wedge 
> itself tightly into the hole.
> Likewise - parallel (self tapping type) screws are not as effective as the 
> old (No8 / No10) tapered woodscrews.
> 
> In all cases the quality of the hole is so important - I watched someone who 
> waggled the drill as he removed it. I asked him why and he said he didn't 
> know but he always did it - I persuaded him to keep the drill in better 
> alignment and he immediately saw an improvement in his fixings. 
> 
> 
Understand exactly what you say. But at least some plugs are clearly 
designed from the ground up to work with parallel threads. E.g. they 
have a 'lump' at the far end which is drawn towards the collar as you 
tighten - and that is what makes the plug splay out and work. I suspect 
this more likely to be true and work a) with recent designs; b) if 
decent makes; c) using sensible hole, screw and plug combination.

WRT the waggle. I can't help feeling that for many holes, drilled by 
many people, in many walls, it is best to drill undersize and then ream 
out to final size. It is much easier to keep the drill straight and true 
when it is only doing a little work. But I am equally sure that is not a 
universally appropriate technique.

-- 
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious 
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>