We moved into a 22yr old house about 6months ago.
Since moving in we've noticed various nasty smells in the bathroom,
cloakroom, utility and ensuite.
They come and go and are not always in all places at once.  They
mostly occur after a hot dry spell, followed by rain, but not always.

Tonight the smell was very bad in the bathroom while I was bathing the
kids.  It appeared to come from the toilet, and the waste pipe next to
it.  This goes into a boxing and then goes downstairs to the
cloakroom, and then down to the main sewer.  There is a similar setup
in the ensuite, which again has the waste pipe going into boxing and
downstairs again, to the utility this time.

I have checked in the loft space and the soil pipes do not continue
upwards into this space.  There appears to be no ventilation of the
soil pipes, unless this is inside the boxing, which has no access
panels I can look through.

The bathroom tonight had water in the traps on the bath and the sink,
and it still smelled, so I don't think the smell is coming from the
overflows due to dried out traps.  I am also reminded by the boss that
the toilet has been recently cleaned!

I can't see any leaks around the soil pipes themselves, so I am a bit
confused as to where the smell is actually coming from?  Does anyone
have any idea?
And how do I go about fixing this problem?  Some sort of vent pipe?

Thanks for reading.
Marc

"marc_ely"  wrote in message 
news:ad2b99fe-a71c-406f-96b5-9349541a10f3@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> We moved into a 22yr old house about 6months ago.
> Since moving in we've noticed various nasty smells in the bathroom,
> cloakroom, utility and ensuite.
> They come and go and are not always in all places at once.  They
> mostly occur after a hot dry spell, followed by rain, but not always.
>
> Tonight the smell was very bad in the bathroom while I was bathing the
> kids.  It appeared to come from the toilet, and the waste pipe next to
> it.  This goes into a boxing and then goes downstairs to the
> cloakroom, and then down to the main sewer.  There is a similar setup
> in the ensuite, which again has the waste pipe going into boxing and
> downstairs again, to the utility this time.
>
> I have checked in the loft space and the soil pipes do not continue
> upwards into this space.  There appears to be no ventilation of the
> soil pipes, unless this is inside the boxing, which has no access
> panels I can look through.
>
> The bathroom tonight had water in the traps on the bath and the sink,
> and it still smelled, so I don't think the smell is coming from the
> overflows due to dried out traps.  I am also reminded by the boss that
> the toilet has been recently cleaned!
>
> I can't see any leaks around the soil pipes themselves, so I am a bit
> confused as to where the smell is actually coming from?  Does anyone
> have any idea?
> And how do I go about fixing this problem?  Some sort of vent pipe?
>
> Thanks for reading.
> Marc

Probably a bad joint buried somewhere inside the boxing - but then you knew 
that already.
-- 
Dave Baker

marc_ely wrote:
> We moved into a 22yr old house about 6months ago.
> Since moving in we've noticed various nasty smells in the bathroom,
> cloakroom, utility and ensuite.
> They come and go and are not always in all places at once.  They
> mostly occur after a hot dry spell, followed by rain, but not always.
>
> Tonight the smell was very bad in the bathroom while I was bathing the
> kids.  It appeared to come from the toilet, and the waste pipe next to
> it.  This goes into a boxing and then goes downstairs to the
> cloakroom, and then down to the main sewer.  There is a similar setup
> in the ensuite, which again has the waste pipe going into boxing and
> downstairs again, to the utility this time.
>
> I have checked in the loft space and the soil pipes do not continue
> upwards into this space.  There appears to be no ventilation of the
> soil pipes, unless this is inside the boxing, which has no access
> panels I can look through.
>
> The bathroom tonight had water in the traps on the bath and the sink,
> and it still smelled, so I don't think the smell is coming from the
> overflows due to dried out traps.  I am also reminded by the boss that
> the toilet has been recently cleaned!

We had a mystery smell like this about our house for a while until we 
realised that the drains were backing up.  A partial blockage meant that 
pipes that should have been empty after flushing had toilet "residue" lying 
in them after use.

It wouldn't do any harm to lift any inspection covers that you have and 
check that things are flowing freely.  I must admit, I'd be surprised if 
your soil stack wasn't vented somewhere.

Tim

The message 
from marc_ely  contains these words:

> I have checked in the loft space and the soil pipes do not continue
> upwards into this space.  There appears to be no ventilation of the
> soil pipes, unless this is inside the boxing, which has no access
> panels I can look through.

If the top of the soil stack is open to the atmosphere then you are
bound to get smells in the house if the open end is boxed in rather than
outside the house. However your house should not have been built like
that. 

The chances are that the interior soil stack terminates in an air
admittance valve which could have failed. Seems to me that you have no
option but to dismantle the boxing in in the vicinity of the top of the
pipe.

Another possibility is that one of the waste pipes has become partially
detached from the soil pipe and no long makes an airtight joint but
again you need to remove the cladding to see what is what.

-- 
Roger Chapman

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 22:51:56 +0100, Roger 
wrote:

>The message 
>from marc_ely  contains these words:
>
>> I have checked in the loft space and the soil pipes do not continue
>> upwards into this space.  There appears to be no ventilation of the
>> soil pipes, unless this is inside the boxing, which has no access
>> panels I can look through.
>
>If the top of the soil stack is open to the atmosphere then you are
>bound to get smells in the house if the open end is boxed in rather than
>outside the house. However your house should not have been built like
>that. 
>
>The chances are that the interior soil stack terminates in an air
>admittance valve which could have failed.

That reminds me - I have a brand new AAV stashed in the loft (ISTR). I
bought it years ago as part of a bathroom revamp, but changed the
plans.
The idea was to do away with the internal soil stack above bath level,
having difficulty getting a short enough bath to accomodate both.
Letting the end of the new bath into a studding wall a little bit at
the other end solved the problem.

-- 
Frank Erskine

marc_ely wrote:
<>
> 
> I can't see any leaks around the soil pipes themselves, so I am a bit
> confused as to where the smell is actually coming from?  Does anyone
> have any idea?
> And how do I go about fixing this problem?  Some sort of vent pipe?
> 

Hepworths produce a product called HepVO - which is a sort of trap. The 
documentation for this (linked below) shows, on page 4, 10 different 
ways in which conventional traps can fail, thus allowing foul air into 
the building. I am not trying to get you to change traps - but it does 
have nice little pictures/explanations and is readily accessible.

<http://content.wavin.com/WAXHW.NSF/pages/PDF_HepVOTechDesignEN/$FILE/HepvOTDG.pdf>

-- 
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious 
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

In message 
, 
marc_ely  writes
>We moved into a 22yr old house about 6months ago.
>Since moving in we've noticed various nasty smells in the bathroom,
>cloakroom, utility and ensuite.
>They come and go and are not always in all places at once.  They
>mostly occur after a hot dry spell, followed by rain, but not always.

Umm...

Following major building works here, some 15 years ago, we had 
*offensive effluvia* coinciding with spells of dry/wet weather.

Invariably foul water had backed up in the drains and was readily 
cleared by rodding. The pong would subside after a week or two.

I am reasonably sure that the builders accidentally lost something like 
a half brick which is gradually being shifted through the system towards 
the sewage receptor (about 50m to go).

Fiddling with air admittance valves had no useful effect. After several 
repeats, it percolated through to my brain that there must be a leak 
such that backed up sewage could find its way under the house.

Sure enough, where a new connection had been made in the existing 
system, the new plastic shoe was not fully sealed to the old benching. 
With the new discharge above the existing this only became a problem 
when the system backed up!

On the wet/dry link, my theory is that our pipe work is *geographically* 
uphill from the house. Clearly the drain has a fall but the trench back 
filled with free draining shingle, may actually be collecting subsurface 
water and directing it back under the house.

Luckily, the inspection pit was large enough for even a portly farmer to 
fix. No smells since but the real test will be how to recognise a back 
up without the accompanying pong:-)

regards

-- 
Tim Lamb

"Tim Lamb"  wrote in message 
news:tgHoUEDZxIbIFwlW@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk...
> In message 
> , 
> marc_ely  writes
>>We moved into a 22yr old house about 6months ago.
>>Since moving in we've noticed various nasty smells in the bathroom,
>>cloakroom, utility and ensuite.
>>They come and go and are not always in all places at once.  They
>>mostly occur after a hot dry spell, followed by rain, but not always.
>
> Umm...
>
> Following major building works here, some 15 years ago, we had *offensive 
> effluvia* coinciding with spells of dry/wet weather.
>
> Invariably foul water had backed up in the drains and was readily cleared 
> by rodding. The pong would subside after a week or two.
>
> I am reasonably sure that the builders accidentally lost something like a 
> half brick which is gradually being shifted through the system towards the 
> sewage receptor (about 50m to go).
>
> Fiddling with air admittance valves had no useful effect. After several 
> repeats, it percolated through to my brain that there must be a leak such 
> that backed up sewage could find its way under the house.
>
> Sure enough, where a new connection had been made in the existing system, 
> the new plastic shoe was not fully sealed to the old benching. With the 
> new discharge above the existing this only became a problem when the 
> system backed up!
>
> On the wet/dry link, my theory is that our pipe work is *geographically* 
> uphill from the house. Clearly the drain has a fall but the trench back 
> filled with free draining shingle, may actually be collecting subsurface 
> water and directing it back under the house.
>
> Luckily, the inspection pit was large enough for even a portly farmer to 
> fix. No smells since but the real test will be how to recognise a back up 
> without the accompanying pong:-)
>
> regards
>
> -- 
> Tim Lamb

OP mentions the toilet had been recently cleaned! Is this enough? I ensure 
enough Domestos (not cheap smelly stuff) is put into the trap at night 
several time a week.

I thought it was permissible for several properties to omit a vent pipe - as 
long as something like one every 5th house has one. Can anyone correct this?

In article
,
   marc_ely  wrote:
> Tonight the smell was very bad in the bathroom while I was bathing the
> kids.  It appeared to come from the toilet, and the waste pipe next to
> it.  This goes into a boxing and then goes downstairs to the
> cloakroom, and then down to the main sewer.  There is a similar setup
> in the ensuite, which again has the waste pipe going into boxing and
> downstairs again, to the utility this time.

I had this which turned out to be a failed toilet pan outlet seal. Didn't
leak but allowed fumes to escape. They came up from the drains rather than
being produced locally - so worse on a hot day. Of course any leak on the
stack might do this. I'm afraid you'll have to unbox things and inspect.
It will be the last bit you look at...

-- 
*Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:43:43 +0100, Rod 
wrote:

>marc_ely wrote:
><>
>> 
>> I can't see any leaks around the soil pipes themselves, so I am a bit
>> confused as to where the smell is actually coming from?  Does anyone
>> have any idea?
>> And how do I go about fixing this problem?  Some sort of vent pipe?
>> 
>
>Hepworths produce a product called HepVO - which is a sort of trap. The 
>documentation for this (linked below) shows, on page 4, 10 different 
>ways in which conventional traps can fail, thus allowing foul air into 
>the building. I am not trying to get you to change traps - but it does 
>have nice little pictures/explanations and is readily accessible.
>
><http://content.wavin.com/WAXHW.NSF/pages/PDF_HepVOTechDesignEN/$FILE/HepvOTDG.pdf>

We had one like that (I can't be sure it was exactly the same) and it
did not work (it let smells through) so was replaced with a
conventional trap.

-- 
(\__/)  M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there.  If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

"marc_ely"  wrote in message 
news:ad2b99fe-a71c-406f-96b5-9349541a10f3@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> We moved into a 22yr old house about 6months ago.
> Since moving in we've noticed various nasty smells in the bathroom,
> cloakroom, utility and ensuite.
> They come and go and are not always in all places at once.  They
> mostly occur after a hot dry spell, followed by rain, but not always.
>
> Tonight the smell was very bad in the bathroom while I was bathing the
> kids.  It appeared to come from the toilet, and the waste pipe next to
> it.  This goes into a boxing and then goes downstairs to the
> cloakroom, and then down to the main sewer.  There is a similar setup
> in the ensuite, which again has the waste pipe going into boxing and
> downstairs again, to the utility this time.
>
> I have checked in the loft space and the soil pipes do not continue
> upwards into this space.  There appears to be no ventilation of the
> soil pipes, unless this is inside the boxing, which has no access
> panels I can look through.
>
> The bathroom tonight had water in the traps on the bath and the sink,
> and it still smelled, so I don't think the smell is coming from the
> overflows due to dried out traps.  I am also reminded by the boss that
> the toilet has been recently cleaned!
>
> I can't see any leaks around the soil pipes themselves, so I am a bit
> confused as to where the smell is actually coming from?  Does anyone
> have any idea?
> And how do I go about fixing this problem?  Some sort of vent pipe?
A friend had a similar problem where the toilet cistern overflow had been 
incorrectly been plumbed directly into the soil pipe (via a bodged mess of 
silicone), this was venting the soil stack into the cistern. Was only a 
problem at certain times when there was positive pressure in the stack.

Fixed by routing the overflow through an external wall as per normal and 
sealing teh stack hole.

Stopped the smell.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:34:55 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, "John"
 randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

>I thought it was permissible for several properties to omit a vent pipe - as 
>long as something like one every 5th house has one. Can anyone correct this?

Or even confirm it. Provided all stacks are fitted with air-admittance
valves, then a drain can have up to five stacks without an open vent.
More than this, and up to x stacks, and there must be at least one
open vent.  There must be at least one open vent for every y stacks
above x.

'x' and 'y' being numbers ICBA to look up.
-- 
Hugo Nebula
  "If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
   just how far from the pack have you strayed?"