Folks


I need a power saw to cut up timber offcuts for a woodburner, and now and then logs.
The off cuts are often fairly hefty - old scaffolding timber etc. The saw will get a  lot of use.

I was going to buy a chainsaw but the guy in the shop directed me towards a recip saw instead as 
being safer and more appropriate for the job. I haven't used a chainsaw before, and I can see that a 
recip saw would be a lot safer.


Any opinions? Will a recip saw do this job?
What are the good makes? I don't want top spend a fortune but want something that will last.


TIA - Adam

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:45:45 +0100, Adam Lipscombe
 wrote:

>Folks
>
>
>I need a power saw to cut up timber offcuts for a woodburner, and now and then logs.
>The off cuts are often fairly hefty - old scaffolding timber etc. The saw will get a  lot of use.
>
>I was going to buy a chainsaw but the guy in the shop directed me towards a recip saw instead as 
>being safer and more appropriate for the job. I haven't used a chainsaw before, and I can see that a 
>recip saw would be a lot safer.
>
>
>Any opinions? Will a recip saw do this job?
>What are the good makes? I don't want top spend a fortune but want something that will last.
>
>
>TIA - Adam
>
With reciprocating saws you directly get what you pay for. My house is
full of Aldi tools because they do my jobs at budget prices. One of
these saws is not amongst them.

I would look at a Bosch if I were getting one.

On 2008-06-30 14:45:45 +0100, Adam Lipscombe  said:

> Folks
> 
> 
> I need a power saw to cut up timber offcuts for a woodburner, and now 
> and then logs.
> The off cuts are often fairly hefty - old scaffolding timber etc. The 
> saw will get a  lot of use.
> 
> I was going to buy a chainsaw but the guy in the shop directed me 
> towards a recip saw instead as being safer and more appropriate for the 
> job. I haven't used a chainsaw before, and I can see that a recip saw 
> would be a lot safer.
> 
> 
> Any opinions? Will a recip saw do this job?
> What are the good makes? I don't want top spend a fortune but want 
> something that will last.
> 
> 
> TIA - Adam

I think it really depends on what kind of sizes that you have, and what 
you mean by "lot of use".

I have a small chain saw that I mainly use for branch lopping, but 
probably wouldn't use for cutting up offcuts of (for example) small 
planed timber.      I would probably use a chop saw for that, but 
mainly because I have one and it's fast.

I have a Bosch reciprocating saw as well, which is pretty good, and I 
agree probably a bit safer than the chain saw, but  reciprocating saws 
are pretty slow.     I would say it would be reasonable for cutting up 
to about 50mm.   After that it's getting to be a bit of a PITA.

Adam Lipscombe  wrote:
 
> I need a power saw to cut up timber offcuts for a woodburner, and now and
> then logs. The off cuts are often fairly hefty - old scaffolding timber
> etc. The saw will get a  lot of use. I was going to buy a chainsaw but the
> guy in the shop directed me towards a recip saw instead as being safer and
> more appropriate for the job. I haven't used a chainsaw before, and I can
> see that a recip saw would be a lot safer.
> Any opinions? Will a recip saw do this job?

I've got a recip saw, and would never use it for cutting bit of logs
etc.
The main use I have it for is cutting through tree roots. It is a very
coarse thing to use - no way could you do an accurate cut with it, it is
there for chopping through things, not giving a clean cut. It is also
slow.
I've got a Ryobi 18" chainsaw which is an excellent bit of kit for the
£160 I paid for it. I have used it regularly to cut up firewood - old
pallets or tree branches. It is not unsafe to use, so long as you are
aware of its dangers.
If you only intend using it in your garden to cut up small(ish) bits,
than an electric chainsaw may be the right thing to go for.
Alan.



-- 
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Adam Lipscombe wrote:

> I was going to buy a chainsaw but the guy in the shop directed me 
> towards a recip saw instead as being safer and more appropriate for the 
> job. I haven't used a chainsaw before, and I can see that a recip saw 
> would be a lot safer.

Generally yes - less chance of kickback etc, and if you wreck a blade on 
a nail etc its far cheaper to replace. Get a decent one with an orbital 
action and they cut quite fast with coarse toothed blades (even the 
three for a couple of quid silverline "green wood blades" are pretty god 
for fast rough cutting). Makes less mess than a chainsaw as well (less 
sawdust)

> Any opinions? Will a recip saw do this job?
> What are the good makes? I don't want top spend a fortune but want 
> something that will last.

A cheap but sturdy one would be the Axminster "white" version. Plenty of 
power, but lacks orbital action and the blade change needs an allen key.

This looks good for a cheapie:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOSCH-Skilsaw-240V-Reciprocating-Sabre-Saw-4900_W0QQitemZ190230394769QQcmdZViewItem

If you are doing much of this I expect you would be better off with a 
"pro" level tool. Toolless blade change is well worth having, and for 
extended use, get one of the ones with anti vibration damping. Make sure 
you go for one that used standard blades and not proprietary ones:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/products.php?cat=Reciprocating%20Saws

But you are looking at £150+ for a good one there.


-- 
Cheers,

John.

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A recip saw is going to turn an hours work into a day's. Chains are
very fast. Chains have real safety issues though, its so easy for
things to go wrong, and when they do its nasty.

When I burnt wood my approach was to make the burner big enough to
take a high percentage of stuff whole, about 4' IIRC. Most of that
work then just disappears.


NT

John Rumm wrote:
> Adam Lipscombe wrote:
>
>> I was going to buy a chainsaw but the guy in the shop directed me
>> towards a recip saw instead as being safer and more appropriate for
>> the job. I haven't used a chainsaw before, and I can see that a
>> recip saw would be a lot safer.
>
> Generally yes - less chance of kickback etc, and if you wreck a blade
> on a nail etc its far cheaper to replace. Get a decent one with an
> orbital action and they cut quite fast with coarse toothed blades
> (even the three for a couple of quid silverline "green wood blades"
> are pretty god for fast rough cutting). Makes less mess than a
> chainsaw as well (less sawdust)
>
>> Any opinions? Will a recip saw do this job?
>> What are the good makes? I don't want top spend a fortune but want
>> something that will last.
>
> A cheap but sturdy one would be the Axminster "white" version. Plenty
> of power, but lacks orbital action and the blade change needs an
> allen key.

I've had a couple of real el cheapo reciprocating saws and found the blade 
holding mechanism is what fails first.  My latest is a SF Titan that was on 
offer dirt cheap, that has an allen key change - I consider it an advantage. 
Simple & the blade stays put.


-- 
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

When the guy in the shop says a reciprocating saw, he's not talking
about a Tyrannosaw, is he?  That has a reciprocating action (like a
powered bow saw) and would certainly do what you're talking about -
more safely than a chainsaw but more expensive to buy.

Have a Google for Tyrannosaw or Alligator Saw (DeWalt's name for it)
or maybe tandem saw.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:45:45 +0100, Adam Lipscombe wrote:

> Any opinions? Will a recip saw do this job?
> What are the good makes? I don't want top spend a fortune but want something that will last.

I used my £40 B&Q PP-brand reciprocating saw to cut up a load of
firewood for my mum: she had some (spruce?) logs of about 100 - 150mm
diameter which were too long for the fire. Worked well enough. I daresay
a chainsaw would have been quicker but a petrol one needs engine as well
as blade maintenance, blade maintenance on either petrol or electric is a
bit of work (a PITA from my experience a long time ago) whereas you just
chuck another cheap blade into a recip. Not to memtion possibility
of chopping yourself up :-). 

Suggest you get a reciprocating one first: it has other uses anyway
e.g. with a metal cutting blade it makes light work of even 50mm steel
pipe, water tanks etc. If you find it too slow after a while you can
always go for a chainsaw later.

-- 
John Stumbles

I forgot to take my amnesia medecine again

The Medway Handyman wrote:

>> A cheap but sturdy one would be the Axminster "white" version. Plenty
>> of power, but lacks orbital action and the blade change needs an
>> allen key.
> 
> I've had a couple of real el cheapo reciprocating saws and found the blade 
> holding mechanism is what fails first.  My latest is a SF Titan that was on 
> offer dirt cheap, that has an allen key change - I consider it an advantage. 
> Simple & the blade stays put.

The SDS systems used by Bosch and Makita etc are better still - they get 
a good grip on the blade and there is no risk of stripping the inside of 
the allen bolt etc.

I expect if I were buying again, I would go for a better one than since 
it has turned out to be quite useful for a number of applications.

-- 
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:
> The Medway Handyman wrote:
>
>>> A cheap but sturdy one would be the Axminster "white" version.
>>> Plenty of power, but lacks orbital action and the blade change
>>> needs an allen key.
>>
>> I've had a couple of real el cheapo reciprocating saws and found the
>> blade holding mechanism is what fails first.  My latest is a SF
>> Titan that was on offer dirt cheap, that has an allen key change - I
>> consider it an advantage. Simple & the blade stays put.
>
> The SDS systems used by Bosch and Makita etc are better still - they
> get a good grip on the blade and there is no risk of stripping the
> inside of the allen bolt etc.
>
> I expect if I were buying again, I would go for a better one than
> since it has turned out to be quite useful for a number of
> applications.

I rarely use mine, its only in the van as a problem solver.  Mainly tree 
roots & door frames etc.


-- 
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

wrote in message
news:710c3ab7-f20b-4e23-8445-b156e1e597c8@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> A recip saw is going to turn an hours work into a day's. Chains are
> very fast. Chains have real safety issues though, its so easy for
> things to go wrong, and when they do its nasty.
>


That would be my view on this as well.
I have had two people die in front of me due to chainsaw accidents, they
come top of the list for the most dangerous and lethal tool in inexperienced
hands.


-

On 2008-06-30 22:28:46 +0100, "Mark"  said:

> 
>  wrote in message
> news:710c3ab7-f20b-4e23-8445-b156e1e597c8@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> A recip saw is going to turn an hours work into a day's. Chains are
>> very fast. Chains have real safety issues though, its so easy for
>> things to go wrong, and when they do its nasty.
>> 
> 
> 
> That would be my view on this as well.
> I have had two people die in front of me due to chainsaw accidents, they
> come top of the list for the most dangerous and lethal tool in inexperienced
> hands.
> 
> 
> -

Crikey.  WHat do you do?  Tree surgery?

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:28:46 GMT, "Mark"  wrote:

>
> wrote in message
>news:710c3ab7-f20b-4e23-8445-b156e1e597c8@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> A recip saw is going to turn an hours work into a day's. Chains are
>> very fast. Chains have real safety issues though, its so easy for
>> things to go wrong, and when they do its nasty.
>>
>
>
>That would be my view on this as well.
>I have had two people die in front of me due to chainsaw accidents, they
>come top of the list for the most dangerous and lethal tool in inexperienced
>hands.

:-(

So, our daughter is due to start a career in Arbory so inevitably will
be using said beast in her work.

So, assuming she has all the right training (and puts it into
practice) and wears the right gear etc, how dangerous are they in
experienced hands do you think Mark?

All the best ..

T i m

The Medway Handyman wrote:

>> I expect if I were buying again, I would go for a better one than
>> since it has turned out to be quite useful for a number of
>> applications.
> 
> I rarely use mine, its only in the van as a problem solver.  Mainly tree 
> roots & door frames etc.

Which is kind of what I meant - it does things that would be hard to do 
by other methods. Not bad at pruning and lopping either.

-- 
Cheers,

John.

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Andy Hall <andyh@hall.nospam> wrote in message news:486956ff@qaanaaq...
> On 2008-06-30 22:28:46 +0100, "Mark"  said:
>
> >
> >  wrote in message
> >
news:710c3ab7-f20b-4e23-8445-b156e1e597c8@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >> A recip saw is going to turn an hours work into a day's. Chains are
> >> very fast. Chains have real safety issues though, its so easy for
> >> things to go wrong, and when they do its nasty.
> >>
> >
> >
> > That would be my view on this as well.
> > I have had two people die in front of me due to chainsaw accidents, they
> > come top of the list for the most dangerous and lethal tool in
inexperienced
> > hands.
> >
> >
>
> Crikey.  WHat do you do?  Tree surgery?
>

 No, just in the right place at the wrong time.
The first fatality was during the storm of 1987 our village was completely
cut off, the roads were blocked with fallen trees, power and telephone
cables.
An elderly chap was cutting a fallen tree in his garden slipped or tripped
and partially severed his right leg he was bleeding profusely.
We carried him on a door someone had ripped off his house the two miles
across country to the main road in the hope this was open and we could get
him to a hospital.
 Regrettably he didn't make it, and died in our arms halfway there.
The second was even worse for me as I was on my own, I was delivering eggs,
as I drove into this chaps driveway he was up a 20ft ladder pruning a branch
right in front of his face.
I stopped dead thinking Jesus Christ, at which point he turned around and
looked at me, the chainsaw kicked back and hit him full in the face, he fell
from the ladder to his death.

I have used many potentially dangerous powered tools for many years, the
chainsaw is the only one I still stop and think carefully about what I am
about to do before even starting it.


-

T i m  wrote in message
news:ojoi6452qk2msrf2ommdu0hsgehbi76c9p@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:28:46 GMT, "Mark"  wrote:
>
> >
> > wrote in message
> >news:710c3ab7-f20b-4e23-8445-b156e1e597c8@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >> A recip saw is going to turn an hours work into a day's. Chains are
> >> very fast. Chains have real safety issues though, its so easy for
> >> things to go wrong, and when they do its nasty.
> >>
> >
> >
> >That would be my view on this as well.
> >I have had two people die in front of me due to chainsaw accidents, they
> >come top of the list for the most dangerous and lethal tool in
inexperienced
> >hands.
>
> :-(
>
> So, our daughter is due to start a career in Arbory so inevitably will
> be using said beast in her work.
>
> So, assuming she has all the right training (and puts it into
> practice) and wears the right gear etc, how dangerous are they in
> experienced hands do you think Mark?
>

See my reply to AH
Its not the tool that causes the accident but the person using it.


-

On 2008-07-01 00:29:22 +0100, "Mark"  said:

> 
> Andy Hall <andyh@hall.nospam> wrote in message news:486956ff@qaanaaq...
>> On 2008-06-30 22:28:46 +0100, "Mark"  said:
>>> 
>>> That would be my view on this as well.
>>> I have had two people die in front of me due to chainsaw accidents, they
>>> come top of the list for the most dangerous and lethal tool in
> inexperienced
>>> hands.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Crikey.  WHat do you do?  Tree surgery?
>> 
> 
>  No, just in the right place at the wrong time.
> The first fatality was during the storm of 1987 our village was completely
> cut off, the roads were blocked with fallen trees, power and telephone
> cables.
> An elderly chap was cutting a fallen tree in his garden slipped or tripped
> and partially severed his right leg he was bleeding profusely.
> We carried him on a door someone had ripped off his house the two miles
> across country to the main road in the hope this was open and we could get
> him to a hospital.
>  Regrettably he didn't make it, and died in our arms halfway there.
> The second was even worse for me as I was on my own, I was delivering eggs,
> as I drove into this chaps driveway he was up a 20ft ladder pruning a branch
> right in front of his face.
> I stopped dead thinking Jesus Christ, at which point he turned around and
> looked at me, the chainsaw kicked back and hit him full in the face, he fell
> from the ladder to his death.
> 
> I have used many potentially dangerous powered tools for many years, the
> chainsaw is the only one I still stop and think carefully about what I am
> about to do before even starting it.
> 
> 
> -

After those experiences I'm surprised that you are able to write about 
it, let alone use a chainsaw..   There isn't much that can be said 
after that,

T i m wrote:

> So, our daughter is due to start a career in Arbory so inevitably will
> be using said beast in her work.
> 
> So, assuming she has all the right training (and puts it into
> practice) and wears the right gear etc, how dangerous are they in
> experienced hands do you think Mark?

As Mark mentioned, thinking through exactly what you are doing first is 
vital - working out what could go wrong and how you are going prevent it 
being a major issue if it does.

Wearing the right safety gear will also make a massive difference to the 
impact or many of the common accidents.  A full face visor and helmet, 
and ballistic nylon/kevlar trousers, overshoes, and gloves are a basic 
minimum.

Chain contact injuries tend to be leg and foot injuries caused by 
following through after a cut. Kickback tends to cause more face, head 
and other upper body. Falling logs, trees etc, and just plain falling 
mop up most of the remainder.


-- 
Cheers,

John.

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On 2008-07-01 05:00:39 +0100, John Rumm  said:
> 
> Chain contact injuries tend to be leg and foot injuries caused by 
> following through after a cut. Kickback tends to cause more face, head 
> and other upper body. Falling logs, trees etc, and just plain falling 
> mop up most of the remainder.

Falling mop up?


I've head of tits up.....

.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:37:17 GMT, "Mark"  wrote:

>> So, assuming she has all the right training (and puts it into
>> practice) and wears the right gear etc, how dangerous are they in
>> experienced hands do you think Mark?
>>
>
>See my reply to AH
>Its not the tool that causes the accident but the person using it.

Understood, like "guns don't kill people, people kill people"
(especially those carrying guns). ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:00:39 +0100, John Rumm
 wrote:

>T i m wrote:
>
>> So, our daughter is due to start a career in Arbory so inevitably will
>> be using said beast in her work.
>> 
>> So, assuming she has all the right training (and puts it into
>> practice) and wears the right gear etc, how dangerous are they in
>> experienced hands do you think Mark?
>
>As Mark mentioned, thinking through exactly what you are doing first is 
>vital - working out what could go wrong and how you are going prevent it 
>being a major issue if it does.

Understood.
>
>Wearing the right safety gear will also make a massive difference to the 
>impact or many of the common accidents.  A full face visor and helmet, 
>and ballistic nylon/kevlar trousers, overshoes, and gloves are a basic 
>minimum.

Well she's already got a Petzl Vertex Vent Arb helmet (with integrated
face guard and ear defenders) and we have checked out the sizes on
trousers and the Stihl Hi Flex in small seem a good fit in her (and
are Type _C  although only 6 layers?) if / when she gets that far.

Because she's 'small' (compared with yer typical Male Tree Surgeon)
she found the new Petzl Sequoia SRT harness more comfortable than
alternatives (partly because as she mentioned "she has hips") ;-)

There was no point getting the harness without the Marlow Gecko
climbing rope and carabina. ;-)

CS boots are also on the list and I think I remember someone saying
that generally only the left glove would have CS protection as the
right hand is always on the throttle?
>
>Chain contact injuries tend to be leg and foot injuries caused by 
>following through after a cut.

Ah.

> Kickback tends to cause more face, head 
>and other upper body.

And when does that typically occur please do you think John? She was
telling me one is supposed to use the spikes at the route of the blade
and rotate the saw into the work and I believe that is supposed to
resist kickback (I've never used a cs so I'm not sure what the feel
is)?

The guys she's been working with have at least 3 chainsaw sizes. The
smallest is used mainly one handed and often at arm length so seems
the least dangerous? The middle size looks like it could be the most
dangerous (and in the size most likely to catch the unwary /
untrained) as the longer one seems sufficiently long that it would
move fairly slowly in a 'kickback' situation (and was more likely to
cut down the next tree by mistake than hit you!)?

> Falling logs, trees etc, and just plain falling 
>mop up most of the remainder.

;-)

It's funny, as a parent you would think I would be against her getting
into this field (or on a motorbike), but as a motorcyclist and long
term user of all sorts of power tools (with associated near misses) I
believe with the right training and equipment she is as likely to be
as safe doing either as walking on the pavement in a big city *these
days*? :-(


All the best and thanks for the feedback.

T i m

p.s. I have a Bosch Saber saw and have found it very useful. Jenny and
I cut up our old sofa with it the other day as used it to remove an
old shrub before that (as has been mentioned is good for cutting
through reasonably sized branches and roots). Now I want a Tyrannosaw!

OK thanks for the the input.

What are the pros and cons of alligator/tyrannosaw vs. conventional reciprocating?
Speed?


One thing that occurs to me is that the thicker blade on the alligator type saw is more likely to 
get stuck in green wood, and be more expensive to replace. Is that right?


Thanks - Adam






John Stumbles wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:45:45 +0100, Adam Lipscombe wrote:
> 
>> Any opinions? Will a recip saw do this job?
>> What are the good makes? I don't want top spend a fortune but want something that will last.
> 
> I used my £40 B&Q PP-brand reciprocating saw to cut up a load of
> firewood for my mum: she had some (spruce?) logs of about 100 - 150mm
> diameter which were too long for the fire. Worked well enough. I daresay
> a chainsaw would have been quicker but a petrol one needs engine as well
> as blade maintenance, blade maintenance on either petrol or electric is a
> bit of work (a PITA from my experience a long time ago) whereas you just
> chuck another cheap blade into a recip. Not to memtion possibility
> of chopping yourself up :-). 
> 
> Suggest you get a reciprocating one first: it has other uses anyway
> e.g. with a metal cutting blade it makes light work of even 50mm steel
> pipe, water tanks etc. If you find it too slow after a while you can
> always go for a chainsaw later.
>

On 30 Jun, 14:45, Adam Lipscombe  wrote:
> Folks
>
> I need a power saw to cut up timber offcuts for a woodburner, and now and then logs.
> The off cuts are often fairly hefty - old scaffolding timber etc. The saw will get a  lot of use.
>
> I was going to buy a chainsaw but the guy in the shop directed me towards a recip saw instead as
> being safer and more appropriate for the job. I haven't used a chainsaw before, and I can see that a
> recip saw would be a lot safer.
>
> Any opinions? Will a recip saw do this job?
> What are the good makes? I don't want top spend a fortune but want something that will last.
>
> TIA - Adam

I know a tree surgeon, and he has a very lightweight, almost "mini"
electric chainsaw which seems to have a lot less kick and danger due
to the reduced inertia whilst weilding the thing. He said it was
around 30 quid (!). A bit slower than a "real" chainsaw, but seems
safer. He uses it without any safety gear, which may be daft, but he
seems sensible - always push it away from you, make sure if the chain
kicks, it would pull away, etc.
Simon.

T i m wrote:

> Well she's already got a Petzl Vertex Vent Arb helmet (with integrated
> face guard and ear defenders) and we have checked out the sizes on
> trousers and the Stihl Hi Flex in small seem a good fit in her (and
> are Type _C  although only 6 layers?) if / when she gets that far.

A quick search of youtube will turn up some demos of chainsaw meets 
protective gear encounters. Quite enlightening (especially when compared 
to the chainsaw meets simulated leg wearing only jeans) demo.

>> Kickback tends to cause more face, head 
>> and other upper body.
> 
> And when does that typically occur please do you think John? She was

Usually when you allow something to make contact with the top half of 
the nose of the saw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoyyjuG0K-A

It then flicks rapidly upwards.

> telling me one is supposed to use the spikes at the route of the blade
> and rotate the saw into the work and I believe that is supposed to
> resist kickback (I've never used a cs so I'm not sure what the feel
> is)?

Yup. It is far less likely to get problems when just making straight 
cuts with the body of the bar in the wood, but the nose clear of 
anything. What can catch (pun intended) is where you pull the machine so 
that the end of the bar is drawn into the cut. A bit like with a 
circular saw you only need the wrong bit of the blade to get pinched and 
it pushes the whole thing in an unexpected direction.

Part of the thinking through exercise is working out where the arc of 
the blade is going to go if it kicks, and making sure you (or anyone 
else) is not in the potential path. Needless to say cutting through a 
branch right in front of your face while up a ladder is asking for head 
like a klingon.

> The guys she's been working with have at least 3 chainsaw sizes. The
> smallest is used mainly one handed and often at arm length so seems

You also have less control at arms length, so still needs respect. 
Usually when I have watched guys using these they have them on a longish 
lanyard - so if anything unexpected happens they just drop it, leaving 
both hands free to deal with whatever situation arises.

> the least dangerous? The middle size looks like it could be the most
> dangerous (and in the size most likely to catch the unwary /
> untrained) as the longer one seems sufficiently long that it would
> move fairly slowly in a 'kickback' situation (and was more likely to
> cut down the next tree by mistake than hit you!)?

There is also less chance of needing to do a plunge cut[1] with a longer 
bar.

[1] Which needs to be done right to reduce the otherwise likely kickback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB243WXwVcw&NR=1


>> Falling logs, trees etc, and just plain falling 
>> mop up most of the remainder.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> It's funny, as a parent you would think I would be against her getting
> into this field (or on a motorbike), but as a motorcyclist and long
> term user of all sorts of power tools (with associated near misses) I
> believe with the right training and equipment she is as likely to be
> as safe doing either as walking on the pavement in a big city *these
> days*? :-(

Not much point in trying to keep them away from all these dangers, since 
you ultimately have no control over what they will try in the future. So 
it is probably better to introduce her to the dangers with proper advice 
and tuition rather than let her work it out by herself.

Having said that, it does not stop you worrying all the same! I had 
seven year old daughter (bit of a thrill seeker, and has always been 
fascinated by ladders) say "Can I go up the ladder daddy?" yesterday. 
This would be the three section one I have at some 25+ foot extension 
leaning against the top of a chimney stack (reattaching wobbly chimney 
pots and installing a new aerial). I figured probably better while I am 
standing there explaining how to do it safely.

> p.s. I have a Bosch Saber saw and have found it very useful. Jenny and
> I cut up our old sofa with it the other day as used it to remove an
> old shrub before that (as has been mentioned is good for cutting
> through reasonably sized branches and roots). Now I want a Tyrannosaw!

Only problem with them is the non standard blades...


-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

"John Rumm"  wrote in message 
news:B82dnYX9A89xNvTVnZ2dnUVZ8tLinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>T i m wrote:
>
>> So, our daughter is due to start a career in Arbory so inevitably will
>> be using said beast in her work.
>>
>> So, assuming she has all the right training (and puts it into
>> practice) and wears the right gear etc, how dangerous are they in
>> experienced hands do you think Mark?
>
> As Mark mentioned, thinking through exactly what you are doing first is 
> vital - working out what could go wrong and how you are going prevent it 
> being a major issue if it does.
>
> Wearing the right safety gear will also make a massive difference to the 
> impact or many of the common accidents.  A full face visor and helmet, and 
> ballistic nylon/kevlar trousers, overshoes, and gloves are a basic 
> minimum.
>

I remember a Tomorrows World program showing the nylon/kevlar trousers back 
in c.1987. They work on the same principal a friend and I found out the 
night before the program was broadcast.

We were trying to drill some large holes in the door of a mark II escort for 
some speakers. The problem was that the insulating material behind the 
plastic interior stopped the drill working as it wrapped around the hole 
cutter.

Adam

On Jul 1, 10:03 am, Adam Lipscombe  wrote:

> What are the pros and cons of alligator/tyrannosaw vs. conventional reciprocating?
> Speed?

Certainly speed.  Would have though that for stuff like scaffold
boards and logs the tyrannosaw would roar through it.  I cut up a load
of 2x2  and 2x3 once with a recipro saw and it's not a fast process.
For taking out window frames, tree roots etc it can be a great problem
solver but it's not a workhorse for logging.


> One thing that occurs to me is that the thicker blade on the alligator type saw is more likely to
> get stuck in green wood, and be more expensive to replace. Is that right?

Yes, more expensive, but there're two blades and I wouldn't expect
they'd get stuck.

Adam Lipscombe  wrote in message
news:1214902986.6771.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
> OK thanks for the the input.
>
> What are the pros and cons of alligator/tyrannosaw vs. conventional
reciprocating?
> Speed?
>
>
> One thing that occurs to me is that the thicker blade on the alligator
type saw is more likely to
> get stuck in green wood, and be more expensive to replace. Is that right?
>
>
> Thanks - Adam

Really don't be put off,
 the chainsaw is the correct tool for the job.
You just have to mindful that it is potentially far more dangerous then most
other power tools if not correctly used, but is entirely safe if used
correctly.
Make yourself a sawtable that will hold the wood to be cut securely don't
even think of cutting branches or anything loose or held with your foot on
the ground.
Make sure pets kids or anyone can't come within 10ft of you when you are
using the saw, but don't use the saw if you are alone at home.
Make sure all wood is stacked behind the sawtable and there are no offcuts
under your feet that may cause a trip hazard where you are working.

T i m  wrote in message
news:j6jj64hjl7q5udts8eclckjaunclrd8n4s@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:37:17 GMT, "Mark"  wrote:
>
> >> So, assuming she has all the right training (and puts it into
> >> practice) and wears the right gear etc, how dangerous are they in
> >> experienced hands do you think Mark?
> >>
> >
> >See my reply to AH
> >Its not the tool that causes the accident but the person using it.
>
> Understood, like "guns don't kill people, people kill people"

I can understand your concern for your daughter's safety, but with proper
training equipment and attitude she will be fine.

You can never protect against the freak accident no matter what you do for a
living, people have managed to kill themselves with a pencil,
 and im embarrassed to admit that I was very nearly one of them. ;(



-

T i m  wrote in message
news:6ajj64h7lpm0l01k9q1bl32f1vp3h3q8cr@4ax.com...

>
> The guys she's been working with have at least 3 chainsaw sizes. The
> smallest is used mainly one handed and often at arm length so seems
> the least dangerous?

Christ NO
( just in case anyone should read this at a later date with a Single-handed
chainsaws in their hand)

Single-handed chainsaws are the most dangerous of all
(IMO a tool so dangerous it should not be made)
They are considered so risky, you need a NPTC Certificate to be able to
legally purchase a new one in the UK.
IMHO you also need to be a cat, with a clean slate

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:38:22 GMT, "Mark"  wrote:

>
>T i m  wrote in message
>news:j6jj64hjl7q5udts8eclckjaunclrd8n4s@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:37:17 GMT, "Mark"  wrote:
>>
>> >> So, assuming she has all the right training (and puts it into
>> >> practice) and wears the right gear etc, how dangerous are they in
>> >> experienced hands do you think Mark?
>> >>
>> >
>> >See my reply to AH
>> >Its not the tool that causes the accident but the person using it.
>>
>> Understood, like "guns don't kill people, people kill people"
>
>I can understand your concern for your daughter's safety, but with proper
>training equipment and attitude she will be fine.

Thanks. Luckily she is one of those people who take note when we say
"careful, that's dangerous". She asks why and want's to know all the
wrinkles. Her big sister on the other hand would often go straight out
and test our warnings! :-(
>
>You can never protect against the freak accident no matter what you do for a
>living, people have managed to kill themselves with a pencil,
> and im embarrassed to admit that I was very nearly one of them. ;(

 :-( indeed!

All the best ..

T i m

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:48:49 GMT, "Mark"  wrote:

>
>T i m  wrote in message
>news:6ajj64h7lpm0l01k9q1bl32f1vp3h3q8cr@4ax.com...
>
>>
>> The guys she's been working with have at least 3 chainsaw sizes. The
>> smallest is used mainly one handed and often at arm length so seems
>> the least dangerous?
>
>Christ NO
>( just in case anyone should read this at a later date with a Single-handed
>chainsaws in their hand)

Like they might .. ;-)
>
>Single-handed chainsaws are the most dangerous of all

Oh?

>(IMO a tool so dangerous it should not be made)

Cripes?

>They are considered so risky, you need a NPTC Certificate to be able to
>legally purchase a new one in the UK.

What *just* the littuns Mark?

>IMHO you also need to be a cat, with a clean slate

Ah. Ok, thanks for the heads up <puts new 12" Stihl back in box>.
<weg>

All the best ...

T i m

On 2008-07-01 22:38:22 +0100, "Mark"  said:

> 
> T i m  wrote in message
> news:j6jj64hjl7q5udts8eclckjaunclrd8n4s@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:37:17 GMT, "Mark"  wrote:
>> 
>>>> So, assuming she has all the right training (and puts it into
>>>> practice) and wears the right gear etc, how dangerous are they in
>>>> experienced hands do you think Mark?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> See my reply to AH
>>> Its not the tool that causes the accident but the person using it.
>> 
>> Understood, like "guns don't kill people, people kill people"
> 
> I can understand your concern for your daughter's safety, but with proper
> training equipment and attitude she will be fine.
> 
> You can never protect against the freak accident no matter what you do for a
> living, people have managed to kill themselves with a pencil,
>  and im embarrassed to admit that I was very nearly one of them. ;(
> 
> 
> 
> -

OK, I'll buy it.  How?    went up nose?

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:08:33 +0000, ARWadworth wrote:

> We were trying to drill some large holes in the door of a mark II escort
> for some speakers. The problem was that the insulating material behind
> the plastic interior stopped the drill working as it wrapped around the
> hole cutter.

Which is what happens if you use this new eco-fleece glass-fibre/rockwool
replacement stuff to line a stud wall, and get a wisp of it in contact
with a drywall screw when you're fixing your plasterboard.

-- 
John Stumbles

Fundamentalist agnostic

Mark wrote:
> Adam Lipscombe  wrote in message
> news:1214902986.6771.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
>> OK thanks for the the input.
>>
>> What are the pros and cons of alligator/tyrannosaw vs. conventional
> reciprocating?
>> Speed?
>>
>>
>> One thing that occurs to me is that the thicker blade on the alligator
> type saw is more likely to
>> get stuck in green wood, and be more expensive to replace. Is that right?
>>
>>
>> Thanks - Adam
> 
> Really don't be put off,
>  the chainsaw is the correct tool for the job.
> You just have to mindful that it is potentially far more dangerous then most
> other power tools if not correctly used, but is entirely safe if used
> correctly.
> Make yourself a sawtable that will hold the wood to be cut securely don't
> even think of cutting branches or anything loose or held with your foot on
> the ground.
> Make sure pets kids or anyone can't come within 10ft of you when you are
> using the saw, but don't use the saw if you are alone at home.
> Make sure all wood is stacked behind the sawtable and there are no offcuts
> under your feet that may cause a trip hazard where you are working.
> 
> 

I agree with all of that but would like to add one piece of safety advice.

Don't move your feet without putting the chain brake on first.

The best, if you have an agricultural college that is reachable, is to 
have a chainsaw course. You will not only learn how to use one safely 
but will also learn how to maintain it and, very importantly, learn how 
to sharpen the cutters. The courses can be expensive but at least some 
of that cost will be offset by you being able to service your own saw.

-- 
Howard Neil

"Howard Neil"  wrote in message 
news:lJWdncxeleRd9vbVnZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
> Mark wrote:
>> Adam Lipscombe  wrote in message
>> news:1214902986.6771.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
>>> OK thanks for the the input.
>>>
>>> What are the pros and cons of alligator/tyrannosaw vs. conventional
>> reciprocating?
>>> Speed?
>>>
>>>
>>> One thing that occurs to me is that the thicker blade on the alligator
>> type saw is more likely to
>>> get stuck in green wood, and be more expensive to replace. Is that 
>>> right?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks - Adam
>>
>> Really don't be put off,
>>  the chainsaw is the correct tool for the job.
>> You just have to mindful that it is potentially far more dangerous then 
>> most
>> other power tools if not correctly used, but is entirely safe if used
>> correctly.
>> Make yourself a sawtable that will hold the wood to be cut securely don't
>> even think of cutting branches or anything loose or held with your foot 
>> on
>> the ground.
>> Make sure pets kids or anyone can't come within 10ft of you when you are
>> using the saw, but don't use the saw if you are alone at home.
>> Make sure all wood is stacked behind the sawtable and there are no 
>> offcuts
>> under your feet that may cause a trip hazard where you are working.
>>
>>
>
> I agree with all of that but would like to add one piece of safety advice.
>
> Don't move your feet without putting the chain brake on first.
>

Yes good point

A Youtube vid showing why

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ian-GvsKksQ&NR=1

and one showing the all important attitude to safety.... or not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoWWUQiGVwQ&NR=1





-

I'd get a chainsaw because they are so quick and efficient.
You do have to be very aware of the danger, and really safety
conscious.
Always arrange so that you are working above the job, so that if
something falls, it falls away from you.
Never use the saw in a cramped area.
Keep it at arms length, as far as is comfortable and manageable, so
that if it kicks, there is plenty of distance between it, and most of
you.
Make sure there's someone within shouting distance.

Many years ago, I was lucky to escape with a minor accident, cutting a
high branch, which fell badly,  fractured a bone in my hand.  I could
easily have been badly injured, but it made me think carefully about
safety ever since, with every tool I use.

I think that a chainsaw is safe, provided you respect it and are
constantly award of how dangerous it could be, and you always have
safety planning at the forefront of your mind.  The focus of the job
should not be 'how to cut the tree down'. It should be 'how to not get
hurt while working''.

Wear ear protection too.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:45:45 +0100, Adam Lipscombe wrote:

> Folks
> 
> 
> I need a power saw to cut up timber offcuts for a woodburner, and now
> and then logs. The off cuts are often fairly hefty - old scaffolding
> timber etc. The saw will get a  lot of use.
> 
> I was going to buy a chainsaw but the guy in the shop directed me
> towards a recip saw instead as being safer and more appropriate for the
> job. I haven't used a chainsaw before, and I can see that a recip saw
> would be a lot safer.
> 
> 
> Any opinions? Will a recip saw do this job? What are the good makes? I
> don't want top spend a fortune but want something that will last.
> 
> 
> TIA - Adam

Today I gave a sever pruning to a 8m high eucalyptus tree.  Using both a 
Bosch reciprocating saw and a 1700 Bosch electric chain saw.

The chain saw went through 250mm boughs like they were made of balsa. 
The reciprocating saw was better, nearly as quick and safer for twigs up 
to 25mm. 

The chain saw is a fearsome beast but had an instant stop feature so that 
as soon as your finger left the button the chain stopped dead. 

If you make up a proper sawing horse  then I would have thought the chain 
saw would not be too hazardous.

-- 
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk 
Gas fitting FAQ  http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On 2008-07-02 12:14:05 +0100, John Stumbles  said:

> <<Stuff>>


> John Stumbles
> 
> Fundamentalist agnostic
> 
> 


Is this similar to being a militant apathetic?

Andy Hall <andyh@hall.nospam> wrote in message news:486ac49a@qaanaaq...
> > You can never protect against the freak accident no matter what you do
for a
> > living, people have managed to kill themselves with a pencil,
> >  and im embarrassed to admit that I was very nearly one of them. ;(
> >
> >
> >
>
> OK, I'll buy it.  How?    went up nose?
>

I managed to stick 4ins of one in my neck.
Sitting at desk sharpening pencil to a really nice point,
 dropped sharpener on floor,
 transferred pencil to left hand with point up,
 left hand on side of desk I bent down quickly under desk to reach..OUCH


-

Mark wrote:
> "Howard Neil"  wrote in message 
> news:lJWdncxeleRd9vbVnZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>> Mark wrote:
>>> Adam Lipscombe  wrote in message
>>> news:1214902986.6771.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
>>>> OK thanks for the the input.
>>>>
>>>> What are the pros and cons of alligator/tyrannosaw vs. conventional
>>> reciprocating?
>>>> Speed?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One thing that occurs to me is that the thicker blade on the alligator
>>> type saw is more likely to
>>>> get stuck in green wood, and be more expensive to replace. Is that 
>>>> right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks - Adam
>>> Really don't be put off,
>>>  the chainsaw is the correct tool for the job.
>>> You just have to mindful that it is potentially far more dangerous then 
>>> most
>>> other power tools if not correctly used, but is entirely safe if used
>>> correctly.
>>> Make yourself a sawtable that will hold the wood to be cut securely don't
>>> even think of cutting branches or anything loose or held with your foot 
>>> on
>>> the ground.
>>> Make sure pets kids or anyone can't come within 10ft of you when you are
>>> using the saw, but don't use the saw if you are alone at home.
>>> Make sure all wood is stacked behind the sawtable and there are no 
>>> offcuts
>>> under your feet that may cause a trip hazard where you are working.
>>>
>>>
>> I agree with all of that but would like to add one piece of safety advice.
>>
>> Don't move your feet without putting the chain brake on first.
>>
> 
> Yes good point
> 
> A Youtube vid showing why
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ian-GvsKksQ&NR=1
> 
> and one showing the all important attitude to safety.... or not
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoWWUQiGVwQ&NR=1
> 

Perhaps this sums it up. It's much safer if someone else uses it ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKdRgRv0zyM&NR=1