As this NG is still fairly quiet I thought I would stir up a bit more 
activity

There is a report in the Halifax Courier that the Editors of the Good Pub 
Guide 2009 have received a record number of complaints from readers about 
visits to their local watering hole being spoilt by badly behaved children. 
Feedback revealed that unchecked children were increasingly disturbing the 
experiences of pubgoers across the UK.


The full text is readable but not easily printable (not here anyway) at 
http://www.goodguides.co.uk/



Comments anyone?

Paul Rigg wrote:
> Aha  found a better copy of it
> 
> http://www.thegoodpubguide.co.uk/eng/VIEWS

>> Comments anyone?

Like it says in the article, the fault is with the parents, not the 
kids. If they're not taught how to behave, they never will do, hence 
today's gangs of feral youth.
I feel sorry for the parents of well-mannered kids. How are they 
expected to uphold standards when their children see others running 
amok without a word of reprimand from their so-called parents who 
choose to completely ignore them and their behaviour?

-- 
KeithS.

In article ,
   Paul Rigg  wrote:
> As this NG is still fairly quiet I thought I would stir up a bit more 
> activity

> There is a report in the Halifax Courier that the Editors of the Good Pub 
> Guide 2009 have received a record number of complaints from readers about 
> visits to their local watering hole being spoilt by badly behaved children. 
> Feedback revealed that unchecked children were increasingly disturbing the 
> experiences of pubgoers across the UK.


> The full text is readable but not easily printable (not here anyway) at 
> http://www.goodguides.co.uk/



> Comments anyone?

Well it was bad enough during the 1990s when I lived and went in pubs in
Yorkshire. If it's got worse since then thank god I don't go in pubs
regularly!




>

-- 
Christine Pampling
www.pandorasboxhealing.com

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:01:29 +0100, "Paul Rigg"
 wrote:

>As this NG is still fairly quiet I thought I would stir up a bit more 
>activity
>
>There is a report in the Halifax Courier that the Editors of the Good Pub 
>Guide 2009 have received a record number of complaints from readers about 
>visits to their local watering hole being spoilt by badly behaved children. 
>Feedback revealed that unchecked children were increasingly disturbing the 
>experiences of pubgoers across the UK.
>
>
>The full text is readable but not easily printable (not here anyway) at 
>http://www.goodguides.co.uk/
>
>
>
>Comments anyone?

Hi

Wait till the little Bast##ds are running at full speed up and down
the bar, then "accidentally" stretch your legs out in front of them.
That normally stops them in their tracks (literally) - especially on a
tiled floor.

The most amazing anti-social behaviour I personally ever saw, was a
young woman blocking at least half the bar with a full size pram -
despite a notice saying "no children at the bar".  Although there were
complaints from other customers, nothing was said by the bar staff.

Regards


KGB

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:30:03 +0100, Christine
 wrote:
> thank god I don't go in pubs
> regularly!
>
Sounds like you're the perfect sort of person to organise a beer
festival  ; )

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:01:29 +0100, Paul Rigg wrote:

<snipped>

> Comments anyone?

It's one  of the main reasons [1] why I rarely visit pubs these days. Pubs
used to be nice places to have a quiet drink and a quiet chat. Not anymore
- they try to be all things to all people. I refuse to pay for listening to
noisy children and therefore don't use pubs anymore :-(

Come back the old days (please) !

[1] Other reasons - loud music and TV - almost as bad as noisy children :-(

-- 
Regards,

Hugh Jampton

Paul Rigg wrote:
> As this NG is still fairly quiet I thought I would stir up a bit more 
> activity
> 
> There is a report in the Halifax Courier that the Editors of the Good 
> Pub Guide 2009 have received a record number of complaints from readers 
> about visits to their local watering hole being spoilt by badly behaved 
> children. Feedback revealed that unchecked children were increasingly 
> disturbing the experiences of pubgoers across the UK.

It was in one of the London free rags as well. Smells rather like a 
press release has been sent out to get some free publicity for their 
products.

-- 
Arthur Figgis               Surrey, UK

In article ,
   M Platting wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:30:03 +0100, Christine
>  wrote:
> > thank god I don't go in pubs
> > regularly!
> >
> Sounds like you're the perfect sort of person to organise a beer
> festival  ; )

I don't do that any more either!

-- 
Christine Pampling
www.pandorasboxhealing.com

Arthur Figgis wrote:
> Paul Rigg wrote:
>> As this NG is still fairly quiet I thought I would stir up a bit more
>> activity
>>
>> There is a report in the Halifax Courier that the Editors of the Good
>> Pub Guide 2009 have received a record number of complaints from
>> readers about visits to their local watering hole being spoilt by
>> badly behaved children. Feedback revealed that unchecked children were
>> increasingly disturbing the experiences of pubgoers across the UK.
> 
> It was in one of the London free rags as well. Smells rather like a
> press release has been sent out to get some free publicity for their
> products.

I doubt that.

When our kids were young we regularly took them to pubs. It's hard to
control hyperactive - and possibly tired - children, and we have been
rebuked by landlords for "not controlling our children". We were not
irresponsible parents, and did our best to keep them under control.

This contrasts sharply with our experience in France, where children are
accepted in bars and such as the norm, and their behaviour - albeit not
always perfect - is tolerated. Perhaps part of the problem here is that
children are not regarded as a normal part of the family, but rather as
unwanted intrusions. In France they love to have children around.

-- 
Brian

BrianW wrote:
> Arthur Figgis wrote:
>> Paul Rigg wrote:
>>> As this NG is still fairly quiet I thought I would stir up a bit more
>>> activity
>>>
>>> There is a report in the Halifax Courier that the Editors of the Good
>>> Pub Guide 2009 have received a record number of complaints from
>>> readers about visits to their local watering hole being spoilt by
>>> badly behaved children. Feedback revealed that unchecked children were
>>> increasingly disturbing the experiences of pubgoers across the UK.
>> It was in one of the London free rags as well. Smells rather like a
>> press release has been sent out to get some free publicity for their
>> products.
> 
> I doubt that.
> 
> When our kids were young we regularly took them to pubs. It's hard to
> control hyperactive - and possibly tired - children, and we have been
> rebuked by landlords for "not controlling our children". We were not
> irresponsible parents, and did our best to keep them under control.

The problem is that when some little brat is tripping you up, kicking 
you or screaming, being told "it's not his fault" doesn't really help. 
It never /is/ the fault of any kid or parent anywhere.

No doubt society forced them to take a tired or hyperactive kid to a 
pub, rather than bed or the park....

> This contrasts sharply with our experience in France, where children are
> accepted in bars and such as the norm, and their behaviour - albeit not
> always perfect - is tolerated. Perhaps part of the problem here is that
> children are not regarded as a normal part of the family, but rather as
> unwanted intrusions.

Well people drinking beer would probably be considered unwanted 
intrusions in many places for kids, so why not!

 > In France they love to have children around.

Though compared to .uk, people in France are perhaps more likely to be 
sat at individual tables with minimal contact with anyone other than the 
people they had gone into the bar with, and won't be carrying drinks around.

-- 
Arthur Figgis               Surrey, UK

In message <eQtJk.54098$5A6.31573@newsfe09.ams2>, BrianW 
 wrote
>Arthur Figgis wrote:
>> Paul Rigg wrote:
>>> As this NG is still fairly quiet I thought I would stir up a bit more
>>> activity
>>>
>>> There is a report in the Halifax Courier that the Editors of the Good
>>> Pub Guide 2009 have received a record number of complaints from
>>> readers about visits to their local watering hole being spoilt by
>>> badly behaved children. Feedback revealed that unchecked children were
>>> increasingly disturbing the experiences of pubgoers across the UK.
>>
>> It was in one of the London free rags as well. Smells rather like a
>> press release has been sent out to get some free publicity for their
>> products.
>
>I doubt that.
>
>When our kids were young we regularly took them to pubs. It's hard to
>control hyperactive - and possibly tired - children, and we have been
>rebuked by landlords for "not controlling our children". We were not
>irresponsible parents, and did our best to keep them under control.

Your kids are like that because you don't hit them hard enough when they 
misbehaved.  For the rest of the custom in the pub your out of control 
children were no different to the out of control children brought up by 
totally irresponsible parents.

>This contrasts sharply with our experience in France, where children are
>accepted in bars and such as the norm, and their behaviour - albeit not
>always perfect - is tolerated.

Are you sure that it is tolerated in a 'nice' way? When you left with 
your out of control kids the locals probably said 'thank god those 
ignorant English have left.'

>Perhaps part of the problem here is that
>children are not regarded as a normal part of the family, but rather as
>unwanted intrusions. In France they love to have children around.
>

The ONLY problem is that parents don't control their children. It's no 
use you trying to blame the rest of us for your lack of parental 
control.

-- 
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In article <eQtJk.54098$5A6.31573@newsfe09.ams2>, BrianW
 wrote:
> > It was in one of the London free rags as well. Smells rather like
> > a press release has been sent out to get some free publicity for
> > their products.

> I doubt that.

I think AF is right.

It was in our evening paper the night before last.

-- 
Chris de Cordova (West Cumbria & Western Lakes) www.westcumbriacamra.org.uk
Whitehaven Beer Festival: 21st & 22nd Nov 2008 (www.whitehavenbeerfestival.co.uk)
www.cumbrianbreweries.org.uk for good craic on our beers!

When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.

In article <eQtJk.54098$5A6.31573@newsfe09.ams2>, BrianW
 wrote:
> When our kids were young we regularly took them to pubs. It's hard
> to control hyperactive - and possibly tired - children, and we have
> been rebuked by landlords for "not controlling our children". We
> were not irresponsible parents, and did our best to keep them under
> control.

When your kids are that state you should absolutely *not* be taking
them into pubs.

When OUR kids were young, we regularly took them into pubs - together
with pencils, crayons, books, etc, to keep them occupied. When we
felt they might be annoying others, we took them home.

I have been accused of being a hypocrite because I can't stand other
people's kids being in pubs now, when I am aware of them. If I am not
aware of them, I don't mind. But the thing is, when we took ours in,
we made sure others did not really notice them. We made sure they
stayed on their seats, kept them in a corner as far away from others
as possible, and made sure they kept their voices down.

-- 
Chris de Cordova (West Cumbria & Western Lakes) www.westcumbriacamra.org.uk
Whitehaven Beer Festival: 21st & 22nd Nov 2008 (www.whitehavenbeerfestival.co.uk)
www.cumbrianbreweries.org.uk for good craic on our beers!

For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:07:05 +0100, BrianW  wrote:


>
>When our kids were young we regularly took them to pubs. It's hard to
>control hyperactive - and possibly tired - children, and we have been
>rebuked by landlords for "not controlling our children". We were not
>irresponsible parents, and did our best to keep them under control.

Hi

Out of curiosity, what would your attitude be if you were in a pub and
your child was bitten by a customer's dog, the owner of which then
merely shrugged his shoulders and said, "He is young, hyperactive and
tired and doesn't like being poked by uncontrolled children. I am not
an irresponsible dog owner, I am doing my best to keep it under
control"

Regards
P.S.  A friend of mine once asked a bookshop owner, "Is it OK if I
bring my dog into your shop?".  He received the reply, "Dogs are fine,
children are most definitely not allowed."


KGB

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:07:05 +0100, BrianW  wrote:

>When our kids were young we regularly took them to pubs. It's hard to
>control hyperactive - and possibly tired - children, and we have been
>rebuked by landlords for "not controlling our children". We were not
>irresponsible parents, and did our best to keep them under control.

I'm probably going to get slated for this, but if your kids are
hyperactive and/or tired then you should not be taking them into pubs.

"Lord Summerisle" <summerisle@blackhole.invalid> wrote in message 
news:eveef4hl1ne2h5eotv1itcfjvjt486m7dv@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:07:05 +0100, BrianW  wrote:
>
>>When our kids were young we regularly took them to pubs. It's hard to
>>control hyperactive - and possibly tired - children, and we have been
>>rebuked by landlords for "not controlling our children". We were not
>>irresponsible parents, and did our best to keep them under control.
>
> I'm probably going to get slated for this, but if your kids are
> hyperactive and/or tired then you should not be taking them into pubs.
>

if the kids are hyperactive and tired that's when you need a drink most:-)

Andy R

Lord Summerisle wrote:

> I'm probably going to get slated for this, but if your kids are
> hyperactive and/or tired then you should not be taking them into pubs.

No you're right of course. We have two small children and one older one
and we have learnt not to take the young ones into situations where it's
unrealistic to expect them to be quiet. With the older one we went out a
lot but regularly had to retrieve him from places such as restaurant
kitchens (and once the pilot's cockpit in a plane).

In fact it's far more stressful for us. I couldn't enjoy a pint if I see
our twins crawling under tables. But nice big pub gardens with a few
swings etc are great.

E.

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:01:29 +0100, in the Year of Our Lord, Paul
Rigg, Beloved Prophet of the Lord said:

> As this NG is still fairly quiet I thought I would stir up a bit more 
> activity
> 
> There is a report in the Halifax Courier that the Editors of the Good Pub 
> Guide 2009 have received a record number of complaints from readers about 
> visits to their local watering hole being spoilt by badly behaved children. 
> Feedback revealed that unchecked children were increasingly disturbing the 
> experiences of pubgoers across the UK.
> 
> 
> The full text is readable but not easily printable (not here anyway) at 
> http://www.goodguides.co.uk/
> 
> 
> 
> Comments anyone?

Exagerated if you ask me. Probably the usual anorak crowd
doing their usual.

Kevin

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:01:29 +0100, "Paul Rigg"
 wrote:

>As this NG is still fairly quiet I thought I would stir up a bit more 
>activity
>
>There is a report in the Halifax Courier that the Editors of the Good Pub 
>Guide 2009 have received a record number of complaints from readers about 
>visits to their local watering hole being spoilt by badly behaved children. 
>Feedback revealed that unchecked children were increasingly disturbing the 
>experiences of pubgoers across the UK.
>
>
>The full text is readable but not easily printable (not here anyway) at 
>http://www.goodguides.co.uk/
>
>
>
>Comments anyone?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
We regularly took our children to pubs. They were very well behaved
(we pointed out to them that if they were good they would end up going
to a lot more interesting places) and usually made welcome by the
staff. At one pub the lanlord always came to us and sat the boys down
in his kitchen with a bag of crisps and a glass of orange.

>At one pub the lanlord always came to us and sat the boys down
>in his kitchen with a bag of crisps and a glass of orange.

Hi

Which pub was that?

Grubby children in the place where customers' food is prepared is a
very good reason to avoid eating there - apart from it probably being
against every health and safety regulation you can think of!!!!.

Regards
KGB

"KGB (KGB)"  wrote in message 
news:48f9b5d2.10761578@news.enta.net...
> >At one pub the lanlord always came to us and sat the boys down
>>in his kitchen with a bag of crisps and a glass of orange.
>
> Hi
>
> Which pub was that?
>
> Grubby children in the place where customers' food is prepared is a
> very good reason to avoid eating there

Do you think that is the worst thing that happens in a food preparation 
area? Naive!

On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 10:41:45 GMT, "gavin"
 wrote:

>
>"KGB (KGB)"  wrote in message 
>news:48f9b5d2.10761578@news.enta.net...
>> >At one pub the lanlord always came to us and sat the boys down
>>>in his kitchen with a bag of crisps and a glass of orange.
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Which pub was that?
>>
>> Grubby children in the place where customers' food is prepared is a
>> very good reason to avoid eating there
>
>Do you think that is the worst thing that happens in a food preparation 
>area? Naive! 

Hi

Of course I don't!!  But what the eye doesn't see, etc...

Regards

KGB

"KGB (KGB)"  wrote in message 
news:48f9c4c7.14590812@news.enta.net...
> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 10:41:45 GMT, "gavin"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"KGB (KGB)"  wrote in message
>>news:48f9b5d2.10761578@news.enta.net...
>>> >At one pub the lanlord always came to us and sat the boys down
>>>>in his kitchen with a bag of crisps and a glass of orange.
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Which pub was that?
>>>
>>> Grubby children in the place where customers' food is prepared is a
>>> very good reason to avoid eating there
>>
>>Do you think that is the worst thing that happens in a food preparation
>>area? Naive!
>
> Hi
>
> Of course I don't!!  But what the eye doesn't see, etc...

So unless you see any kids in the kitchen everything's dandy  :-)

On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 10:12:33 GMT, "KGB"
 (KGB) wrote:

>>At one pub the lanlord always came to us and sat the boys down
>>in his kitchen with a bag of crisps and a glass of orange.
>

>
>Grubby children in the place where customers' food is prepared is a
>very good reason to avoid eating there - apart from it probably being
>against every health and safety regulation you can think of!!!!.
>
>Regards
>KGB

Where does it say that this was a Kitchen from which meals were
prepared for customers? 

G.Harman

Arthur Figgis wrote:
> BrianW wrote:
>> Arthur Figgis wrote:
>>> Paul Rigg wrote:
>>>> As this NG is still fairly quiet I thought I would stir up a bit more
>>>> activity
>>>>
>>>> There is a report in the Halifax Courier that the Editors of the Good
>>>> Pub Guide 2009 have received a record number of complaints from
>>>> readers about visits to their local watering hole being spoilt by
>>>> badly behaved children. Feedback revealed that unchecked children were
>>>> increasingly disturbing the experiences of pubgoers across the UK.
>>> It was in one of the London free rags as well. Smells rather like a
>>> press release has been sent out to get some free publicity for their
>>> products.
>>
>> I doubt that.
>>
>> When our kids were young we regularly took them to pubs. It's hard to
>> control hyperactive - and possibly tired - children, and we have been
>> rebuked by landlords for "not controlling our children". We were not
>> irresponsible parents, and did our best to keep them under control.
> 
> The problem is that when some little brat is tripping you up, kicking
> you or screaming, being told "it's not his fault" doesn't really help.
> It never /is/ the fault of any kid or parent anywhere.
> 
> No doubt society forced them to take a tired or hyperactive kid to a
> pub, rather than bed or the park....
> 
>> This contrasts sharply with our experience in France, where children are
>> accepted in bars and such as the norm, and their behaviour - albeit not
>> always perfect - is tolerated. Perhaps part of the problem here is that
>> children are not regarded as a normal part of the family, but rather as
>> unwanted intrusions.
> 
> Well people drinking beer would probably be considered unwanted
> intrusions in many places for kids, so why not!
> 
>> In France they love to have children around.
> 
> Though compared to .uk, people in France are perhaps more likely to be
> sat at individual tables with minimal contact with anyone other than the
> people they had gone into the bar with, and won't be carrying drinks
> around.

IHTS this was one those "after the pub" posts, and I guess it deserved
the response it got! We were only ever rebuked once, and only because
our kids had decided to "explore" the restaurant area. We always made
sure that they didn't cause any inconvenience or annoyance to other
customers, and ate outside or in dedicated family areas wherever
possible. And I'm talking about when we were on holiday.  And even then
we never took our kids to pubs unless we were having a meal.

My comments on France were that their culture accepts children as part
of society, whereas ours tends to regard them as irritations that need
to to be kept out of the way where possible.

-- 
Brian

damduck-egg@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 10:12:33 GMT, "KGB"
>  (KGB) wrote:
> 
>>> At one pub the lanlord always came to us and sat the boys down
>>> in his kitchen with a bag of crisps and a glass of orange.
> 
>> Grubby children in the place where customers' food is prepared is a
>> very good reason to avoid eating there - apart from it probably being
>> against every health and safety regulation you can think of!!!!.
>>
>> Regards
>> KGB
> 
> Where does it say that this was a Kitchen from which meals were
> prepared for customers? 
> 
> G.Harman

That's the problem with this NG. People read things into posts that were
neither stated nor intended.

For the record we have been for many years regular reporters to the Good
Pub Guide - including which pubs were suitable for children - in terms
of facilities and welcome. When using the GPG for recommendations, we
never went to a pub with the kids unless it clearly stated "children
welcome".

Sadly (or should that be thankfully :-) ) our kids flew the nest a few
years ago.

-- 
Brian

On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 10:12:33 GMT, "KGB"
 (KGB) wrote:

>>At one pub the lanlord always came to us and sat the boys down
>>in his kitchen with a bag of crisps and a glass of orange.
>
>Hi
>
>Which pub was that?
>
>Grubby children in the place where customers' food is prepared is a
>very good reason to avoid eating there - apart from it probably being
>against every health and safety regulation you can think of!!!!.
>
>Regards
>KGB
It was the Red Lion in Stathern.The pub didn't serve food,the kitchen
was in the landlord's private area.And we wouldn't have taken them
anywhere in a grubby state.