Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?

Judith

Judith in France wrote:
> Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
> technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
> cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
> have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
> 

I have this book, and find it very useful, particularly the timing charts.

<http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pressure-Perfect-Lorna-Sass/dp/0060505346/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256058171&sr=1-1>

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:36:54 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
>shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
>technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
>cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
>have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
>identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?

If you look in UK second hand book shops there are often plenty of pressure
cooker cookery books usually buried under the microwave cookery books.

http://www.recipes4us.co.uk/Pressure%20Cooker%20Recipes.htm
http://allrecipes.co.uk/recipes/pressure-cooker-recipes.aspx
http://allrecipes.co.uk/recipes/searchresults.aspx?keywordGroup=8_Easy&keywordGroup=9_Pressure+cooker

Don't put too much liquid in it and it won't blow the safety valve.

Don't make too much pea soup at a time unless you want a green kitchen ceiling (
voice of experience)

Have you tried pressurising it? The seals might have reached the end of their
life.
-- 

Martin

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:36:54 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
>shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
>technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
>cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
>have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
>identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?

You might have some success if you write to the maker and ask for a recipe book.
I got one that way and a set of trivets free after buying a pressure cooker in
Holland and finding neither recipe book nor trivets. Afterwards I found that the
reason they were cheaper in Holland was the absence of recipe book and trivets.
Serves them right for not modifying the labeling on the box. :o)

Prestige are owned by Meyer you can contact them at
http://www.meyergroup.co.uk/contactus/contactus.html
-- 

Martin

"Judith in France"  wrote in message 
news:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
> technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
> cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
> have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>

Describe what it looks like.

I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years. 
If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for 
it too!

Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches 
high with a removable weight.  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I 
might not be able to help you much.
They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
And other things, of course!

Tina

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:56:07 +0100, "Christina Websell"
 wrote:

>
>"Judith in France"  wrote in message 
>news:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
>> shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
>> technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
>> cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
>> have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
>> identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>>
>
>Describe what it looks like.
>
>I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years. 
>If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for 
>it too!

The timing depends on the pressure, which depends on the weight on the safety
valve.

I'd guess one question to ask is - is it made of aluminium or stainless steel.

If it is aluminium like our two vintage Prestige cookers, ask - Am I bovvered if
it damages my brain?
If it is a modern stainless steel cooker it probably has something more subtle
than a  weight to set the pressure.
We currently use a Spanish made pressure cooker that we bought in Lidl. (where
else?)
>
>Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches 
>high with a removable weight.

Three nested weights. We have never used anything but all three at the same
time.

>  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I 
>might not be able to help you much.

The cooking times are the same

>They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
>And other things, of course!

including near instant Dutch pea soup and marmalade.
-- 

Martin

"Judith in France"  wrote 
in message 
news:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure 
> cooker from a charity
> shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was 
> tried by their
> technical staff and proclaimed safe for use. 
> However, I don't have a
> cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, 
> the timings etc?  I
> have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks 
> and I can't
> identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice? 
> Please?
>
> Judith

I have a Prestige Cooker and the paperback book I use 
is by Kathleen Broughton
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=kathleen+broughton&x=16&y=20

The smallest weight will give a temperature of 109C and 
using all 3 weights will give a temperature of 121C. A 
1.5 kg chicken will take about 25 mins at 121C. You 
start the timing the moment the cooker starts hissing - 
you then reduce the heat. Golden rule : make sure there 
is ample liquid in the cooker (water, wine, stock etc).

The Coq au vin recipe uses 5 fl oz red wine, button 
mushrooms, baby onions, glass brandy, butter, slice 
bacon, garlic, seasoning and lemon juice. The Southern 
chicken casserole recipe, uses 10 fl oz water and 5 fl 
oz chilli sauce. Enjoy.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:30:12 +0100, "Bertie Doe"  wrote:

>
>"Judith in France"  wrote 
>in message 
>news:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure 
>> cooker from a charity
>> shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was 
>> tried by their
>> technical staff and proclaimed safe for use. 
>> However, I don't have a
>> cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, 
>> the timings etc?  I
>> have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks 
>> and I can't
>> identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice? 
>> Please?
>>
>> Judith
>
>I have a Prestige Cooker and the paperback book I use 
>is by Kathleen Broughton
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=kathleen+broughton&x=16&y=20
>
>The smallest weight will give a temperature of 109C and 
>using all 3 weights will give a temperature of 121C. A 
>1.5 kg chicken will take about 25 mins at 121C. You 
>start the timing the moment the cooker starts hissing - 
>you then reduce the heat. Golden rule : make sure there 
>is ample liquid in the cooker (water, wine, stock etc).
>
>The Coq au vin recipe uses 5 fl oz red wine, button 
>mushrooms, baby onions, glass brandy, butter, slice 
>bacon, garlic, seasoning and lemon juice. The Southern 
>chicken casserole recipe, uses 10 fl oz water and 5 fl 
>oz chilli sauce. Enjoy.
>

Another useful tip is to cool the cooker at the end of cooking by putting it
under a cold tap briefly. DO NOT LIFT THE WEIGHT OFF UNTIL YOU HAVE COOLED OR
ALLOWED THE COOKER TO COOL.
-- 

Martin

Martin wrote:

> We currently use a Spanish made pressure cooker that we bought in Lidl. (where
> else?)

A Fagor?


> 
> including near instant Dutch pea soup and marmalade.

That's a combination I would never have thought of...

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:08:52 +0100, S Viemeister 
wrote:

>Martin wrote:
>
>> We currently use a Spanish made pressure cooker that we bought in Lidl. (where
>> else?)
>
>A Fagor?

Probably. It works well.

>
>
>> 
>> including near instant Dutch pea soup and marmalade.
>
>That's a combination I would never have thought of...

... similar to marmalade and kippers.

u.f&d.m the educational news group :o)
-- 

Martin

On Oct 20, 6:06 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:36:54 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>
>  wrote:
> >Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> >shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
> >technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
> >cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
> >have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> >identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>
> If you look in UK second hand book shops there are often plenty of pressure
> cooker cookery books usually buried under the microwave cookery books.
>
> http://www.recipes4us.co.uk/Pressure%20Cooker%20Recipes.htmhttp://allrecipes.co.uk/recipes/pressure-cooker-recipes.aspxhttp://allrecipes.co.uk/recipes/searchresults.aspx?keywordGroup=8_Eas...
>
> Don't put too much liquid in it and it won't blow the safety valve.
>
> Don't make too much pea soup at a time unless you want a green kitchen ceiling (
> voice of experience)
>
> Have you tried pressurising it? The seals might have reached the end of their
> life.
> --
>
> Martin

Thanks Martin, yes I did that last night just with water in it.  It
seemed to leak out of the sides for a long time, although when it
reached pressure it dribbled to a drip.  I'm not too sure about the
seal, it feels supple?

Judith

On Oct 20, 6:04 pm, S Viemeister  wrote:
> Judith in France wrote:
> > Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> > shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
> > technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
> > cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
> > have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> > identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>
> I have this book, and find it very useful, particularly the timing charts> <http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pressure-Perfect-Lorna-Sass/dp/0060505346/ref...Advice gratefully accepted, thanks Sheila.

Judith

On Oct 20, 6:15 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:36:54 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>
>  wrote:
> >Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> >shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
> >technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
> >cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
> >have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> >identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>
> You might have some success if you write to the maker and ask for a recipe book.
> I got one that way and a set of trivets free after buying a pressure cooker in
> Holland and finding neither recipe book nor trivets. Afterwards I found that the
> reason they were cheaper in Holland was the absence of recipe book and trivets.
> Serves them right for not modifying the labeling on the box. :o)
>
> Prestige are owned by Meyer you can contact them athttp://www.meyergroup.co.uk/contactus/contactus.html
> --
>
> Martin

Thanks Martin, that is very good information.

Judith

On Oct 20, 9:56 pm, "Christina Websell"
 wrote:
> "Judith in France"  wrote in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> > shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
> > technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
> > cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
> > have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> > identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>
> Describe what it looks like.
>
> I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years> If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for
> it too!
>
> Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
> high with a removable weight.  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
> might not be able to help you much.
> They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
> And other things, of course!
>
> Tina

Thanks Tina, mine is not a high dome, it is flat with a red timer on
it, when it goes off it releases the steam automatically.  For a
start, I am thinking of using it today to make a simple beef stew,
never done it in a pressure cooker before, would you be able to give
me any idea how to proceed with times?  I will make it to the same
principle that I usually do.

Judith

On Oct 20, 10:27 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:56:07 퍝, "Christina Websell"
>
>
>
>  wrote:
>
> >"Judith in France"  wrote in message
> >news:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com..> >> Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> >> shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
> >> technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
> >> cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
> >> have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> >> identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>
> >Describe what it looks like.
>
> >I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years.
> >If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for
> >it too!
>
> The timing depends on the pressure, which depends on the weight on the safety
> valve.
>
> I'd guess one question to ask is - is it made of aluminium or stainless steel.
>
> If it is aluminium like our two vintage Prestige cookers, ask - Am I bovvered if
> it damages my brain?
> If it is a modern stainless steel cooker it probably has something more subtle
> than a  weight to set the pressure.
> We currently use a Spanish made pressure cooker that we bought in Lidl. (where
> else?)
>
>
>
> >Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
> >high with a removable weight.
>
> Three nested weights. We have never used anything but all three at the same
> time.
>
> >  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
> >might not be able to help you much.
>
> The cooking times are the same
>
> >They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
> >And other things, of course!
>
> including near instant Dutch pea soup and marmalade.
> --
>
> Martin

Martin it is aluminium on the inside and shiny on the outside like SS
but inside it is definitely aluminium.  It has 3 weights.  I wonder if
I should just buy a new one?  If so how many litres would anyone
recommend?  In France they are all over 100-150 Euros, I haven't seen
them in Lidl.

Judith

On Oct 21, 12:30 am, "Bertie Doe"  wrote:
> "Judith in France"  wrote
> in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure
> > cooker from a charity
> > shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was
> > tried by their
> > technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.
> > However, I don't have a
> > cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it,
> > the timings etc?  I
> > have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks
> > and I can't
> > identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?
> > Please?
>
> > Judith
>
> I have a Prestige Cooker and the paperback book I use
> is by Kathleen Broughtonhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&fie...
>
> The smallest weight will give a temperature of 109C and
> using all 3 weights will give a temperature of 121C. A
> 1.5 kg chicken will take about 25 mins at 121C. You
> start the timing the moment the cooker starts hissing -
> you then reduce the heat. Golden rule : make sure there
> is ample liquid in the cooker (water, wine, stock etc).
>
> The Coq au vin recipe uses 5 fl oz red wine, button
> mushrooms, baby onions, glass brandy, butter, slice
> bacon, garlic, seasoning and lemon juice. The Southern
> chicken casserole recipe, uses 10 fl oz water and 5 fl
> oz chilli sauce. Enjoy.

I've printed this out Bertie, thanks, I will hold on a while about
ordering a cookbook until I am sure it is safe to use.

Judith

Martin wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:08:52 +0100, S Viemeister 
> wrote:
> 
>> Martin wrote:
>>
>>> We currently use a Spanish made pressure cooker that we bought in Lidl. (where
>>> else?)
>> A Fagor?
> 
> Probably. It works well.
> 
>>
>>> including near instant Dutch pea soup and marmalade.
>> That's a combination I would never have thought of...
> 
> ... similar to marmalade and kippers.
> 
> u.f&d.m the educational news group :o)

Ick.  I've never been able to tolerate kippers.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:44:22 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>On Oct 20, 6:06 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:36:54 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
>> >shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
>> >technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
>> >cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
>> >have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
>> >identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>>
>> If you look in UK second hand book shops there are often plenty of pressure
>> cooker cookery books usually buried under the microwave cookery books.
>>
>> http://www.recipes4us.co.uk/Pressure%20Cooker%20Recipes.htmhttp://allrecipes.co.uk/recipes/pressure-cooker-recipes.aspxhttp://allrecipes.co.uk/recipes/searchresults.aspx?keywordGroup=8_Eas...
>>
>> Don't put too much liquid in it and it won't blow the safety valve.
>>
>> Don't make too much pea soup at a time unless you want a green kitchen ceiling (
>> voice of experience)
>>
>> Have you tried pressurising it? The seals might have reached the end of their
>> life.
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>
>Thanks Martin, yes I did that last night just with water in it.  It
>seemed to leak out of the sides for a long time, although when it
>reached pressure it dribbled to a drip. 

That's fairly normal.

> I'm not too sure about the
>seal, it feels supple?

Give it a herring and a ball to play with if it gets frisky.
-- 

Martin

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:45:29 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>On Oct 20, 6:15 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:36:54 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
>> >shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
>> >technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
>> >cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
>> >have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
>> >identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>>
>> You might have some success if you write to the maker and ask for a recipe book.
>> I got one that way and a set of trivets free after buying a pressure cooker in
>> Holland and finding neither recipe book nor trivets. Afterwards I found that the
>> reason they were cheaper in Holland was the absence of recipe book and trivets.
>> Serves them right for not modifying the labeling on the box. :o)
>>
>> Prestige are owned by Meyer you can contact them at
http://www.meyergroup.co.uk/contactus/contactus.html

>Thanks Martin, that is very good information.

Meyer took over Prestige and made/marketed the stainless steel ones. Prestige
mainly sold aluminium pressure cookers. Prestige's attempt to make a stainless
steel pressure cooker was a bit of a disaster. When we wanted to buy a Prestige
stainless steel pressure cooker a shop in York that stocked them adviced us not
to buy one. Almost every one they had sold had been returned as defective and
they had refunded the customers.
-- 

Martin

"S Viemeister"  wrote in message 
news:7k81csF36oi9nU3@mid.individual.net...
> Martin wrote:
>
>> We currently use a Spanish made pressure cooker that we bought in Lidl. 
>> (where
>> else?)
>
> A Fagor?
>
>
>>
>> including near instant Dutch pea soup and marmalade.
>
> That's a combination I would never have thought of...

lol

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:03:35 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>On Oct 21, 12:30 am, "Bertie Doe"  wrote:
>> "Judith in France"  wrote
>> in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure
>> > cooker from a charity
>> > shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was
>> > tried by their
>> > technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.
>> > However, I don't have a
>> > cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it,
>> > the timings etc?  I
>> > have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks
>> > and I can't
>> > identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?
>> > Please?
>>
>> > Judith
>>
>> I have a Prestige Cooker and the paperback book I use
>> is by Kathleen Broughtonhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&fie...
>>
>> The smallest weight will give a temperature of 109C and
>> using all 3 weights will give a temperature of 121C. A
>> 1.5 kg chicken will take about 25 mins at 121C. You
>> start the timing the moment the cooker starts hissing -
>> you then reduce the heat. Golden rule : make sure there
>> is ample liquid in the cooker (water, wine, stock etc).
>>
>> The Coq au vin recipe uses 5 fl oz red wine, button
>> mushrooms, baby onions, glass brandy, butter, slice
>> bacon, garlic, seasoning and lemon juice. The Southern
>> chicken casserole recipe, uses 10 fl oz water and 5 fl
>> oz chilli sauce. Enjoy.
>
>I've printed this out Bertie, thanks, I will hold on a while about
>ordering a cookbook until I am sure it is safe to use.

They are always safe to use. The safety valve plug blows long before it can do
any damage.
-- 

Martin

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message 
news:673ud5dtg62q74qoghtd3obc395hnmjk7p@4ax.com...
>
>  The safety valve plug blows long before it can do
> any damage.
> -- 
>
> Martin
>

You would blow anyone's safety valve you slimy cunt.

-- 
Pete

On Oct 20, 9:56 pm, "Christina Websell"
 wrote:
> "Judith in France"  wrote in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> > shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
> > technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
> > cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
> > have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> > identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>
> Describe what it looks like.
>
> I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years> If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for
> it too!
>
> Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
> high with a removable weight.  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
> might not be able to help you much.
> They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
> And other things, of course!
>
> Tina

Here is a photo taken today, does this help identify the model?

http://i38.tinypic.com/vf9jcn.jpg

and another of the produce from my hens and garden:

http://i35.tinypic.com/rbihkn.jpg

Judith

In message 
, 
Judith in France  writes
>
Snip

I have only just seen this thread.

>Here is a photo taken today, does this help identify the model?
>
>http://i38.tinypic.com/vf9jcn.jpg
>
I have never seen one like that but recognise some of the features.  For 
starters, the little round black thing on the lid, directly in front of 
the handle, is the safety valve and you must make sure it is capable of 
popping out to release the pressure should the occasion arise. For 
safety's sake, that is very important.   If the round metal thing right 
in the middle of the lid has a little circular handle on it, it is the 
weight, which you put on when you have your food in the cooker, the lid 
is tightly twisted shut and there is steam gushing out of the hole where 
the metal weight fits.  If you are scared of it, you can use a steel (ie 
one for sharpening knives) or a carving fork to poke through the handle 
on the weight and stand at a distance to put it on.  (OK - I am a wimp). 
After you have put the weight on, you reduce the heat under the pan to 
low and leave it until the food is cooked.  You then plunge the cooker 
into a bowl of cold water in the sink until it stops hissing, when it is 
safe to remove the weight.  You know when that happens because the 
cooker gives a little sigh and weight is easy to remove.   I would 
suggest you try something like a stew for starters.  That will take 
around half an hour and the preparation beforehand is identical to that 
for a conventionally cooked stew.  You could then move on to steamed 
puddings.

It looks like quite an old cooker but that doesn't detract from its 
usefulness as long as you can obtain replacement safety valves and the 
rubber seal that fits in the lid.  You may be able to obtain Prestige 
seals etc that will fit.

Could you go back to the shop with it and ask them to show you how it 
works?  They have tried it, so they should know.  HTH

>and another of the produce from my hens and garden:
>
>http://i35.tinypic.com/rbihkn.jpg
>
Love the pic.
-- 
June Hughes

On Oct 21, 6:17 pm, June Hughes 
wrote:
> In message
> ,
> Judith in France  writes
>
> Snip
>
> I have only just seen this thread.
>
> >Here is a photo taken today, does this help identify the model?
>
> >http://i38.tinypic.com/vf9jcn.jpg
>
> I have never seen one like that but recognise some of the features.  For
> starters, the little round black thing on the lid, directly in front of
> the handle, is the safety valve and you must make sure it is capable of
> popping out to release the pressure should the occasion arise. For
> safety's sake, that is very important.   If the round metal thing right
> in the middle of the lid has a little circular handle on it, it is the
> weight, which you put on when you have your food in the cooker, the lid
> is tightly twisted shut and there is steam gushing out of the hole where
> the metal weight fits.  If you are scared of it, you can use a steel (ie
> one for sharpening knives) or a carving fork to poke through the handle
> on the weight and stand at a distance to put it on.  (OK - I am a wimp)> After you have put the weight on, you reduce the heat under the pan to
> low and leave it until the food is cooked.  You then plunge the cooker
> into a bowl of cold water in the sink until it stops hissing, when it is
> safe to remove the weight.  You know when that happens because the
> cooker gives a little sigh and weight is easy to remove.   I would
> suggest you try something like a stew for starters.  That will take
> around half an hour and the preparation beforehand is identical to that
> for a conventionally cooked stew.  You could then move on to steamed
> puddings.
>
> It looks like quite an old cooker but that doesn't detract from its
> usefulness as long as you can obtain replacement safety valves and the
> rubber seal that fits in the lid.  You may be able to obtain Prestige
> seals etc that will fit.
>
> Could you go back to the shop with it and ask them to show you how it
> works?  They have tried it, so they should know.  HTH
>
> >and another of the produce from my hens and garden:
>
> >http://i35.tinypic.com/rbihkn.jpg
>
> Love the pic.
> --
> June Hughes

Thanks, unfortunately I can't take it back to Lyons as that would
involve driving across the Massif and back, a day's journey.  I only
paid a few Euros for it and I got an electric mincer as well, I love
Charity Shops.  Thanks for the info.

Judith

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:55:12 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>On Oct 20, 9:56 pm, "Christina Websell"
> wrote:
>> "Judith in France"  wrote in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
>> > shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
>> > technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
>> > cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
>> > have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
>> > identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>>
>> Describe what it looks like.
>>
>> I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years.
>> If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for
>> it too!
>>
>> Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
>> high with a removable weight.  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
>> might not be able to help you much.
>> They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
>> And other things, of course!
>>
>> Tina
>
>Here is a photo taken today, does this help identify the model?
>
>http://i38.tinypic.com/vf9jcn.jpg

It's one of the last real Prestige aluminium models. Is the red part a timer?
Our 1974 and 1980 versions have a higher top ( high dome) and no red plastic
bits.

>
>and another of the produce from my hens and garden:
>
>http://i35.tinypic.com/rbihkn.jpg

Yum!
-- 

Martin

On Oct 21, 11:16 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:55:12 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> >On Oct 20, 9:56 pm, "Christina Websell"
> > wrote:
> >> "Judith in France"  wrote in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> >> > shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
> >> > technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
> >> > cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
> >> > have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> >> > identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>
> >> Describe what it looks like.
>
> >> I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years.
> >> If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for
> >> it too!
>
> >> Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
> >> high with a removable weight.  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
> >> might not be able to help you much.
> >> They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
> >> And other things, of course!
>
> >> Tina
>
> >Here is a photo taken today, does this help identify the model?
>
> >http://i38.tinypic.com/vf9jcn.jpg
>
> It's one of the last real Prestige aluminium models. Is the red part a timer?
> Our 1974 and 1980 versions have a higher top ( high dome) and no red plastic
> bits.
>
>
>
> >and another of the produce from my hens and garden:
>
> >http://i35.tinypic.com/rbihkn.jpg
>
> Yum!
> --
>
> Martin

Yes it is a timer Martin, I'm considering buying a new one simply
because it's not SS what do you think?

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:44:50 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>On Oct 21, 6:17 pm, June Hughes 
>wrote:
>> In message
>> ,
>> Judith in France  writes
>>
>> Snip
>>
>> I have only just seen this thread.
>>
>> >Here is a photo taken today, does this help identify the model?
>>
>> >http://i38.tinypic.com/vf9jcn.jpg
>>
>> I have never seen one like that but recognise some of the features.  For
>> starters, the little round black thing on the lid, directly in front of
>> the handle, is the safety valve and you must make sure it is capable of
>> popping out to release the pressure should the occasion arise. For
>> safety's sake, that is very important.   If the round metal thing right
>> in the middle of the lid has a little circular handle on it, it is the
>> weight, which you put on when you have your food in the cooker, the lid
>> is tightly twisted shut and there is steam gushing out of the hole where
>> the metal weight fits.  If you are scared of it, you can use a steel (ie
>> one for sharpening knives) or a carving fork to poke through the handle
>> on the weight and stand at a distance to put it on.  (OK - I am a wimp).
>> After you have put the weight on, you reduce the heat under the pan to
>> low and leave it until the food is cooked.  You then plunge the cooker
>> into a bowl of cold water in the sink until it stops hissing, when it is
>> safe to remove the weight.  You know when that happens because the
>> cooker gives a little sigh and weight is easy to remove.   I would
>> suggest you try something like a stew for starters.  That will take
>> around half an hour and the preparation beforehand is identical to that
>> for a conventionally cooked stew.  You could then move on to steamed
>> puddings.
>>
>> It looks like quite an old cooker but that doesn't detract from its
>> usefulness as long as you can obtain replacement safety valves and the
>> rubber seal that fits in the lid.  You may be able to obtain Prestige
>> seals etc that will fit.
>>
>> Could you go back to the shop with it and ask them to show you how it
>> works?  They have tried it, so they should know.  HTH
>>
>> >and another of the produce from my hens and garden:
>>
>> >http://i35.tinypic.com/rbihkn.jpg
>>
>> Love the pic.
>> --
>> June Hughes
>
>Thanks, unfortunately I can't take it back to Lyons as that would
>involve driving across the Massif and back, a day's journey.  I only
>paid a few Euros for it and I got an electric mincer as well, I love
>Charity Shops.  Thanks for the info.

You can buy spares from here http://tinyurl.com/prestigeM
and from here http://www.vacuumcleanersparesuk.co.uk/acatalog/prestage.html
We've found cheap sets of Prestige spares in agricultural shops. Don't ask :o)

Maybe you can find something useful here.
http://pressurecookerrecipes22484.yuku.com/forums/68/t/Instruction-Manuals.html

I think the model you have is a Prestige Automatic. 
-- 

Martin

On Oct 21, 11:31 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:44:50 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> >On Oct 21, 6:17 pm, June Hughes 
> >wrote:
> >> In message
> >> ,
> >> Judith in France  writes
>
> >> Snip
>
> >> I have only just seen this thread.
>
> >> >Here is a photo taken today, does this help identify the model?
>
> >> >http://i38.tinypic.com/vf9jcn.jpg
>
> >> I have never seen one like that but recognise some of the features.  For
> >> starters, the little round black thing on the lid, directly in front of
> >> the handle, is the safety valve and you must make sure it is capable of
> >> popping out to release the pressure should the occasion arise. For
> >> safety's sake, that is very important.   If the round metal thing right
> >> in the middle of the lid has a little circular handle on it, it is the
> >> weight, which you put on when you have your food in the cooker, the lid
> >> is tightly twisted shut and there is steam gushing out of the hole where
> >> the metal weight fits.  If you are scared of it, you can use a steel (ie
> >> one for sharpening knives) or a carving fork to poke through the handle
> >> on the weight and stand at a distance to put it on.  (OK - I am a wimp).
> >> After you have put the weight on, you reduce the heat under the pan to
> >> low and leave it until the food is cooked.  You then plunge the cooker
> >> into a bowl of cold water in the sink until it stops hissing, when it is
> >> safe to remove the weight.  You know when that happens because the
> >> cooker gives a little sigh and weight is easy to remove.   I would
> >> suggest you try something like a stew for starters.  That will take
> >> around half an hour and the preparation beforehand is identical to that
> >> for a conventionally cooked stew.  You could then move on to steamed
> >> puddings.
>
> >> It looks like quite an old cooker but that doesn't detract from its
> >> usefulness as long as you can obtain replacement safety valves and the
> >> rubber seal that fits in the lid.  You may be able to obtain Prestige
> >> seals etc that will fit.
>
> >> Could you go back to the shop with it and ask them to show you how it
> >> works?  They have tried it, so they should know.  HTH
>
> >> >and another of the produce from my hens and garden:
>
> >> >http://i35.tinypic.com/rbihkn.jpg
>
> >> Love the pic.
> >> --
> >> June Hughes
>
> >Thanks, unfortunately I can't take it back to Lyons as that would
> >involve driving across the Massif and back, a day's journey.  I only
> >paid a few Euros for it and I got an electric mincer as well, I love
> >Charity Shops.  Thanks for the info.
>
> You can buy spares from herehttp://tinyurl.com/prestigeM
> and from herehttp://www.vacuumcleanersparesuk.co.uk/acatalog/prestage.html
> We've found cheap sets of Prestige spares in agricultural shops. Don't ask :o)
>
> Maybe you can find something useful here.http://pressurecookerrecipes22484.yuku.com/forums/68/t/Instruction-Ma...
>
> I think the model you have is a Prestige Automatic.
> --
>
> Martin

Matin, bisoux, what's that in The Netherlands?  What are you doing up,
it's late, I'm off to bed, goodnight.

Judith xx

On Oct 21, 11:16 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:55:12 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> >On Oct 20, 9:56 pm, "Christina Websell"
> > wrote:
> >> "Judith in France"  wrote in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> >> > shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
> >> > technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
> >> > cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
> >> > have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> >> > identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>
> >> Describe what it looks like.
>
> >> I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years.
> >> If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for
> >> it too!
>
> >> Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
> >> high with a removable weight.  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
> >> might not be able to help you much.
> >> They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
> >> And other things, of course!
>
> >> Tina
>
> >Here is a photo taken today, does this help identify the model?
>
> >http://i38.tinypic.com/vf9jcn.jpg
>
> It's one of the last real Prestige aluminium models. Is the red part a timer?
> Our 1974 and 1980 versions have a higher top ( high dome) and no red plastic
> bits.
>
>
>
> >and another of the produce from my hens and garden:
>
> >http://i35.tinypic.com/rbihkn.jpg
>
> Yum!
> --
>
> Martin

Sheesh!!!!   Fingers, in the Sign of the Cross, "step back from my
chucks"!!!!!!

Judith

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:28:37 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>On Oct 21, 11:16 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:55:12 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Oct 20, 9:56 pm, "Christina Websell"
>> > wrote:
>> >> "Judith in France"  wrote in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
>> >> > shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
>> >> > technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
>> >> > cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
>> >> > have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
>> >> > identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>>
>> >> Describe what it looks like.
>>
>> >> I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years.
>> >> If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for
>> >> it too!
>>
>> >> Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
>> >> high with a removable weight.  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
>> >> might not be able to help you much.
>> >> They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
>> >> And other things, of course!
>>
>> >> Tina
>>
>> >Here is a photo taken today, does this help identify the model?
>>
>> >http://i38.tinypic.com/vf9jcn.jpg
>>
>> It's one of the last real Prestige aluminium models. Is the red part a timer?
>> Our 1974 and 1980 versions have a higher top ( high dome) and no red plastic
>> bits.
>>
>>
>>
>> >and another of the produce from my hens and garden:
>>
>> >http://i35.tinypic.com/rbihkn.jpg
>>
>> Yum!
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>
>Yes it is a timer Martin, I'm considering buying a new one simply
>because it's not SS what do you think?

Wait until Lidl have a special offer Spanish stainless steel cooker. 

We switched to stainless steel long after aluminium had addled our brains :)

The Prestige stainless steel pressure cookers have a poor reputation.
-- 

Martin

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:37:30 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>On Oct 21, 11:16 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:55:12 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Oct 20, 9:56 pm, "Christina Websell"
>> > wrote:
>> >> "Judith in France"  wrote in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
>> >> > shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
>> >> > technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
>> >> > cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
>> >> > have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
>> >> > identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>>
>> >> Describe what it looks like.
>>
>> >> I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years.
>> >> If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for
>> >> it too!
>>
>> >> Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
>> >> high with a removable weight.  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
>> >> might not be able to help you much.
>> >> They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
>> >> And other things, of course!
>>
>> >> Tina
>>
>> >Here is a photo taken today, does this help identify the model?
>>
>> >http://i38.tinypic.com/vf9jcn.jpg
>>
>> It's one of the last real Prestige aluminium models. Is the red part a timer?
>> Our 1974 and 1980 versions have a higher top ( high dome) and no red plastic
>> bits.
>>
>>
>>
>> >and another of the produce from my hens and garden:
>>
>> >http://i35.tinypic.com/rbihkn.jpg
>>
>> Yum!
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>
>Sheesh!!!!   Fingers, in the Sign of the Cross, "step back from my
>chucks"!!!!!!

3 minutes!
-- 

Martin

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>
>
>Martin it is aluminium on the inside and shiny on the outside like SS
>but inside it is definitely aluminium. 

It is aluminium.  For a pressure cooker aluminium is preferable to
stainless steel as it conducts heat better and has fewer hot spots.
The Prestige pressure cooker was one of the best ever made.

> It has 3 weights. 

The weights are stamped L,.M and H and give pressures of 5, 10 and
15lbs per sq in (PSI).  15PSI is the one most often used (all three
weights together).

> I wonder if I should just buy a new one?  

You are unlikely to find a better one than the old heavy aluminium
Prestige one.  Spares are easy to get.  The large seal (gasket)
eventually hardens as does the rubber around the safety valve.  When
this happens they leak slightly. 

 The safety valve is both a pressure release (the metal bit pops out
at high pressure) and overheat device - it is made of a low melting
point alloy and if the pressure cooker runs dry and starts to overheat
will melt releasing the pressure.  In 30 years of using them I've
never had a safety valve operate!  

Beware of American recipes and American advice on pressure cookers.
The Americans produced some really dire spring controlled pressure
cookers in the early 1900's many of which exploded and gave the
pressure cooker a poor reputation.  American cookers tend to have
pressure dials and complicated clamps.   As a result of their early
experiences Americans tend to be very wary of pressure cookers and
have dire warnings about never using old or second hand ones.

The Prestige weight controlled ones are very simple, very safe and
such warnings are quite inappropriate for them.

One result is that  some pressure cookers on American markets are
often called "safety cookers" and operate at lower pressures (10 PSI
max)  than the Prestige with correspondingly longer cooking times.

Don't fill more than half full with liquids or 2/3 full with solids.
Minimum water to use is about 300-500ml.

Cooling can be either by turning the heat off and leaving it (takes
about 30 mins if half full of liquid) or by putting it in a sink and
running cold water over it until the pressure falls.  This only takes
a minute but with things like beans the rapid pressure drop can cause
some to split.  Cold water suits vegetables well as they have a very
short cooking time and would over cook if left to cool by themselves.

As a rough guide its best for things like stews which will take about
1/3rd of their normal cooking time.  It will cook dried beans very
well without the need for pre-soaking.  I've probably got a Prestige
book and timing chart somewhere I can copy if you like.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:37:54 +0100, Peter Parry  wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Martin it is aluminium on the inside and shiny on the outside like SS
>>but inside it is definitely aluminium. 
>
>It is aluminium.  For a pressure cooker aluminium is preferable to
>stainless steel as it conducts heat better and has fewer hot spots.

??? hot spots depend on the thickness of the base not just the material.

>The Prestige pressure cooker was one of the best ever made.
>
>> It has 3 weights. 
>
>The weights are stamped L,.M and H and give pressures of 5, 10 and
>15lbs per sq in (PSI).  15PSI is the one most often used (all three
>weights together).
>
>> I wonder if I should just buy a new one?  
>
>You are unlikely to find a better one than the old heavy aluminium
>Prestige one.  Spares are easy to get.  The large seal (gasket)
>eventually hardens as does the rubber around the safety valve.  When
>this happens they leak slightly. 
>
> The safety valve is both a pressure release (the metal bit pops out
>at high pressure) and overheat device - it is made of a low melting
>point alloy and if the pressure cooker runs dry and starts to overheat
>will melt releasing the pressure.  In 30 years of using them I've
>never had a safety valve operate!  
>
>Beware of American recipes and American advice on pressure cookers.
>The Americans produced some really dire spring controlled pressure
>cookers in the early 1900's many of which exploded and gave the
>pressure cooker a poor reputation.  American cookers tend to have
>pressure dials and complicated clamps.   As a result of their early
>experiences Americans tend to be very wary of pressure cookers and
>have dire warnings about never using old or second hand ones.
>
>The Prestige weight controlled ones are very simple, very safe and
>such warnings are quite inappropriate for them.
>
>One result is that  some pressure cookers on American markets are
>often called "safety cookers" and operate at lower pressures (10 PSI
>max)  than the Prestige with correspondingly longer cooking times.


About 30 years ago all pressure cookers, except the Prestige cooker, tested by
the CA in NL operated at too low a pressure to have any significant effect on
cooking times.

>
>Don't fill more than half full with liquids or 2/3 full with solids.
>Minimum water to use is about 300-500ml.
>
>Cooling can be either by turning the heat off and leaving it (takes
>about 30 mins if half full of liquid) or by putting it in a sink and
>running cold water over it until the pressure falls.  This only takes
>a minute but with things like beans the rapid pressure drop can cause
>some to split.  Cold water suits vegetables well as they have a very
>short cooking time and would over cook if left to cool by themselves.
>
>As a rough guide its best for things like stews which will take about
>1/3rd of their normal cooking time.  It will cook dried beans very
>well without the need for pre-soaking.  I've probably got a Prestige
>book and timing chart somewhere I can copy if you like.

Good information Peter!
>
Did you actually try an alternative to the Prestige aluminium pressure cooker?
The Spanish stainless steel pressure cooker we bought from Lidl is superior to
both of our much loved Prestige aluminium pressure cookers. 
Aluminium from pans is considered to contribute to dementia.
-- 

Martin

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:10:40 +0200, Martin wrote in post :
<news:4vqtd5prt03870m8as8p95d5pk5kkvh51n@4ax.com> :

>>Thanks Martin, yes I did that last night just with water in it.  It
>>seemed to leak out of the sides for a long time, although when it
>>reached pressure it dribbled to a drip. 
> 
> That's fairly normal.

The ring seal between base and lid? It's not normal for that to leak at all
- once at pressure - surely?  I've never seen it. Maybe it was just water
that had leaked out before dripping off?

The seals aren't expensive and for the peace of mind at least it can't hurt
to replace them. 

-- 
Tim C.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France wrote in post :
<news:9fd11593-f23f-48be-bd31-b53c224cccdf@m1g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> :

> .  I wonder if I should just buy a new one?

New ones are expensive, all makes. :-( 
You will need to adjust even the Prestige's own recipes a bit to your own
cooker, and so you can use any general pressure-cooker recipe book  ime.
You'll just have to try one or two simple recipes to get an idea of the
book's "high" and "low" settings and how they compare to your actual ones. 

Are you sure it's not brushed/matt SS on the inside? My (Fissler) ones are. 

-- 
Tim C.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:48:46 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France wrote in post :
<news:57f3e632-f87f-4877-9977-d207b849bac0@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> :

> On Oct 20, 9:56 pm, "Christina Websell"
>  wrote:
>> "Judith in France"  wrote in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
>>> shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
>>> technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
>>> cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
>>> have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
>>> identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>>
>> Describe what it looks like.
>>
>> I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years.
>> If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for
>> it too!
>>
>> Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
>> high with a removable weight.  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
>> might not be able to help you much.
>> They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
>> And other things, of course!
>>
>> Tina
> 
> Thanks Tina, mine is not a high dome, it is flat with a red timer on
> it, when it goes off it releases the steam automatically.  For a
> start, I am thinking of using it today to make a simple beef stew,
> never done it in a pressure cooker before, would you be able to give
> me any idea how to proceed with times?  I will make it to the same
> principle that I usually do.
> 
> Judith

About a 1/3 of the time you'd normally simmer it is a good starting point.
An Austrian gulasch takes about 90 minutes normally and in my PC is ready
in 20-30 minutes.  If it's not enough, just bung the lid on again and give
it another 5-10 minutes - it's already hot so won't take long to reach
pressure again. 
Don't use quite as much liquid as you otherwise would, as you don't lose as
much in evaporation. You can always boil it off at the end though, of
course.

-- 
Tim C.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:31:48 +0200, Martin wrote in post :
<news:fd2vd59907doc0t2kbhglheje0mhnlulpr@4ax.com> :

> We've found cheap sets of Prestige spares in agricultural shops. Don't ask :o)

You are a moonshiner! :-)

-- 
Tim C.

Martin wrote:

> 
> Wait until Lidl have a special offer Spanish stainless steel cooker. 
> 
The Spanish pressure cooker I have, has a very thick aluminium sandwich 
base - the rest is stainless.

> We switched to stainless steel long after aluminium had addled our brains :)
> 
> The Prestige stainless steel pressure cookers have a poor reputation.

"Martin"

> Aluminium from pans is considered to contribute to dementia.

No, that was an urban myth and has been disproved in many studies over thw 
last 15 years or so.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:05:09 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:37:54 +0100, Peter Parry  wrote:

>>It is aluminium.  For a pressure cooker aluminium is preferable to
>>stainless steel as it conducts heat better and has fewer hot spots.
>
>??? hot spots depend on the thickness of the base not just the material.

Of course, but aluminium is a far better thermal conductor of heat
than stainless steel.  Depending upon the steel type Aluminium has a
thermal conductivity 5 to 20 times better than SS).  A steel pan with
equal heat distribution will be far heavier as it will require a much
thicker base - hence the common use of aluminium bonded to the base of
stainless steel pans to improve heat spread.  This still leaves points
around the side where burning can occur on a stainless steel pan when
it would not with an aluminium pan of similar thickness.  As a
pressure cooker requires a strong vessel the aluminium pan is ideal as
it is both strong, light and conducts heat well.  Stainless steel
looks prettier but has no performance advantages.

>Did you actually try an alternative to the Prestige aluminium pressure cooker?
>The Spanish stainless steel pressure cooker we bought from Lidl is superior to
>both of our much loved Prestige aluminium pressure cookers. 

Yes, a rather expensive American one someone once gave us.  It
suffered from hot spots around the side just above the base.

>Aluminium from pans is considered to contribute to dementia.

There is no convincing evidence that aluminium increases a person's
risk of developing Alzheimer's disease.  In any event you get more
aluminium from drinking tea and eating cakes than from saucepans.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:57:09 +0100, S Viemeister 
wrote:

>Martin wrote:
>
>> 
>> Wait until Lidl have a special offer Spanish stainless steel cooker. 
>> 
>The Spanish pressure cooker I have, has a very thick aluminium sandwich 
>base - the rest is stainless.

The part in contact with the food is all stainless? 
I'll have a look and see if I can find the make of ours on it. 
-- 

Martin

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:53:52 +0100, Peter Parry  wrote:

>On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:05:09 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:37:54 +0100, Peter Parry  wrote:
>
>>>It is aluminium.  For a pressure cooker aluminium is preferable to
>>>stainless steel as it conducts heat better and has fewer hot spots.
>>
>>??? hot spots depend on the thickness of the base not just the material.
>
>Of course, but aluminium is a far better thermal conductor of heat
>than stainless steel.  Depending upon the steel type Aluminium has a
>thermal conductivity 5 to 20 times better than SS).  A steel pan with
>equal heat distribution will be far heavier as it will require a much
>thicker base - hence the common use of aluminium bonded to the base of
>stainless steel pans to improve heat spread.  This still leaves points
>around the side where burning can occur on a stainless steel pan when
>it would not with an aluminium pan of similar thickness.  As a
>pressure cooker requires a strong vessel the aluminium pan is ideal as
>it is both strong, light and conducts heat well.  Stainless steel
>looks prettier but has no performance advantages.
>
>>Did you actually try an alternative to the Prestige aluminium pressure cooker?
>>The Spanish stainless steel pressure cooker we bought from Lidl is superior to
>>both of our much loved Prestige aluminium pressure cookers. 
>
>Yes, a rather expensive American one someone once gave us.  It
>suffered from hot spots around the side just above the base.
>
>>Aluminium from pans is considered to contribute to dementia.
>
>There is no convincing evidence that aluminium increases a person's
>risk of developing Alzheimer's disease.  In any event you get more
>aluminium from drinking tea and eating cakes than from saucepans.

I don't drink tea, nor do I eat cakes from saucepans
-- 

Martin

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:43:07 +0200, "Tim C."  wrote:

>On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:31:48 +0200, Martin wrote in post :
><news:fd2vd59907doc0t2kbhglheje0mhnlulpr@4ax.com> :
>
>> We've found cheap sets of Prestige spares in agricultural shops. Don't ask :o)
>
>You are a moonshiner! :-)

Ssshhhhhhh!
-- 

Martin

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:08:33 +0200, "Giusi"  wrote:

>
>"Martin"
>
>> Aluminium from pans is considered to contribute to dementia.
>
>No, that was an urban myth and has been disproved in many studies over thw 
>last 15 years or so. 
>

It wasn't an urban myth it was the result of studies, whether the conclusions of
studies are wrong or right  often depends on who funds the studies.

The Alzheimer's Society says aluminium does not contribute to Alzheimer's
disease.

Gawd knows what the conclusion of this is
http://www.oxymega.com/alzheimers_dementia_aluminum.html

The pressure cooker we bought from Lidl was made by Fagor. All surfaces in
contact with food are stainless steel the cooker has a heat distributed
composite bottom.
I found the original 1973 recipe book for the Prestige. A chicken half covered
in water takes around 30 minutes. Most fresh veg 4-5 minutes. Dried veg/pulses
15-20 minutes. Fagor pressure cooking times are similar.
-- 

Martin

Martin wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:57:09 +0100, S Viemeister 
> wrote:
> 
>> Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Wait until Lidl have a special offer Spanish stainless steel cooker. 
>>>
>> The Spanish pressure cooker I have, has a very thick aluminium sandwich 
>> base - the rest is stainless.
> 
> The part in contact with the food is all stainless? 

Yes.  Yesterday, I used it to make a very thick lentil soup - no 
sticking, no scorching, easy clean-up.

> I'll have a look and see if I can find the make of ours on it. 

Fagor has a website - you could see if yours looks like any of theirs 
(they have a range of models).
Mine doesn't have weights - it's what they call a 'second generation' 
pressure cooker.

"Giusi"  wrote in message 
news:7kap94F38tl5iU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Martin"
>
>> Aluminium from pans is considered to contribute to dementia.
>
> No, that was an urban myth and has been disproved in many studies over thw 
> last 15 years or so.

Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week as the 
local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil of oregano 
instead of the flu shots.
Graham

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:07:10 -0600, graham wrote in post :
<news:Dy_Dm.43117$4E.1414@newsfe08.iad> :

> "Giusi"  wrote in message 
> news:7kap94F38tl5iU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Martin"
>>
>>> Aluminium from pans is considered to contribute to dementia.
>>
>> No, that was an urban myth and has been disproved in many studies over thw 
>> last 15 years or so.
> 
> Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week as the 
> local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil of oregano 
> instead of the flu shots.
> Graham

Mercury isn't so bad as long as it's not in an organic form. 
Not good in aeroplanes though, as it can eat through aluminium. :-)
-- 
Tim C.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:48:46 +0100, S Viemeister 
wrote:

>Martin wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:57:09 +0100, S Viemeister 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wait until Lidl have a special offer Spanish stainless steel cooker. 
>>>>
>>> The Spanish pressure cooker I have, has a very thick aluminium sandwich 
>>> base - the rest is stainless.
>> 
>> The part in contact with the food is all stainless? 
>
>Yes.  Yesterday, I used it to make a very thick lentil soup - no 
>sticking, no scorching, easy clean-up.
>
>> I'll have a look and see if I can find the make of ours on it. 
>
>Fagor has a website - you could see if yours looks like any of theirs 
>(they have a range of models).

www.fagoramerica.com/content/download/.../Express%20manual.pdf

>Mine doesn't have weights - it's what they call a 'second generation' 
>pressure cooker.

It is Fagor. It says so on the back of the instructions that came with it.
I think we have the same model. The model is "Splendid"

Happy pressure cookers are we. :o)

I did wonder about the instructions to cover the chicken with water when stewing
one. Prestige recommended half covering the chicken with water. 

For Judith - recipe library
http://www.fagoramerica.com/my_fagor/recipe_library/stove_top_pressure_cooker

and manual
http://www.fagoramerica.com/media/files/product_manuals/splendid_product_manual
-- 

Martin

graham  wrote:
> Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week as the 
> local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil of oregano 
> instead of the flu shots.

I would have expected it to be oil of garlic rather than oregano.  Maybe
just an extra helping of pizza will do ...

As it happens, I'm planning on refusing the flu jab if it's offered to
either me or the kids - as far as I can gather the whole thing is all
just a media frenzy of panic instigated by the producers of Tamiflu!
Of course, when we're all dying in a few weeks time, I'll accept the
obvious humble pie as a last meal ...

"Judith in France"  wrote in message 
news:9fd11593-f23f-48be-bd31-b53c224cccdf@m1g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 20, 10:27 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:56:07 +0100, "Christina Websell"
>
>
>
>  wrote:
>
> >"Judith in France"  wrote in message
> >news:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> >> Help!!! I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> >> shop that my friends help to run. The cooker was tried by their
> >> technical staff and proclaimed safe for use. However, I don't have a
> >> cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc? I
> >> have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> >> identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice? Please?
>
> >Describe what it looks like.
>
> >I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 
> >years.
> >If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook 
> >for
> >it too!
>
> The timing depends on the pressure, which depends on the weight on the 
> safety
> valve.
>
> I'd guess one question to ask is - is it made of aluminium or stainless 
> steel.
>
> If it is aluminium like our two vintage Prestige cookers, ask - Am I 
> bovvered if
> it damages my brain?
> If it is a modern stainless steel cooker it probably has something more 
> subtle
> than a weight to set the pressure.
> We currently use a Spanish made pressure cooker that we bought in Lidl. 
> (where
> else?)
>
>
>
> >Mine is a Hi-dome. Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
> >high with a removable weight.
>
> Three nested weights. We have never used anything but all three at the 
> same
> time.
>
> > If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
> >might not be able to help you much.
>
> The cooking times are the same
>
> >They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
> >And other things, of course!
>
> including near instant Dutch pea soup and marmalade.
> --
>
> Martin

Martin it is aluminium on the inside and shiny on the outside like SS
but inside it is definitely aluminium.  It has 3 weights.  I wonder if
I should just buy a new one?  If so how many litres would anyone
recommend?  In France they are all over 100-150 Euros, I haven't seen
them in Lidl.

----------
Don't even dream of getting rid of such a treasure!
You'll have to experiment with it a bit, in general things take about a 
third of usual time to cook.  Don't be afraid of it, it will not explode and 
blow up your house.
That said do not go away and leave it for hours and let it boil dry.  If you 
do the saucepan part will get a rounded bottom, and in effect is kn*ck*red 
as it won't sit on the stove - not to mention it will have blown all the 
gaskets it has ;-)
Prestige were very kind to me when I did that with my first one.  I wrote to 
them claiming stupidity and they sent me a new saucepan part for next to 
nothing.
As said upthread, if the gaskets are old, you can get spares.  You'll know 
if that's the case if when you bring it up to pressure, you see steam 
leaking out around the lid or around the pressure valve.
Steam should come out only through the top where the weights are.


Tina

wrote in message 
news:7kbbgcF384vatU2@mid.individual.net...
> graham  wrote:
>> Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week as 
>> the
>> local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil of 
>> oregano
>> instead of the flu shots.
>
> I would have expected it to be oil of garlic rather than oregano.  Maybe
> just an extra helping of pizza will do ...
>
> As it happens, I'm planning on refusing the flu jab if it's offered to
> either me or the kids - as far as I can gather the whole thing is all
> just a media frenzy of panic instigated by the producers of Tamiflu!
> Of course, when we're all dying in a few weeks time, I'll accept the
> obvious humble pie as a last meal ...
>
Well, I thought the same.
I started to feel ill last Thursday.  I went to work Thurs and Fri, not a 
well person, flu like symptoms and a higher temperature than normal.
Holed up over the weekend feeling very ill indeed.  Struggled to work on 
Monday and Tuesday. Wednesday gave it best and called in sick.
To find that so had my manager and two other colleagues, I hope I did not 
spread it to them.  I suspect I did.
I'm not saying I have swine flu, but how to know the difference?

Tina

Martin wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:48:46 +0100, S Viemeister 
> wrote:
>> Mine doesn't have weights - it's what they call a 'second generation' 
>> pressure cooker.
> 
> It is Fagor. It says so on the back of the instructions that came with it.
> I think we have the same model. The model is "Splendid"
> 
> Happy pressure cookers are we. :o)
> 
Mine has the bellied shape of the Rapida, but it's called the 'Express' 
- 6 litre capacity, and two pressure settings, 8 lb and 15 lb.  I've 
never used anything  but the 15 lb setting, though.

On Oct 22, 4:25 pm, "Christina Websell"
 wrote:
> "Judith in France"  wrote in messagenews:9fd11593-f23f-48be-bd31-b53c224cccdf@m1g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 20, 10:27 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:56:07 퍝, "Christina Websell"
>
> >  wrote:
>
> > >"Judith in France"  wrote in message
> > >news:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> > >> Help!!! I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> > >> shop that my friends help to run. The cooker was tried by their
> > >> technical staff and proclaimed safe for use. However, I don't have a
> > >> cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc? I
> > >> have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> > >> identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice? Please?
>
> > >Describe what it looks like.
>
> > >I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20
> > >years.
> > >If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook
> > >for
> > >it too!
>
> > The timing depends on the pressure, which depends on the weight on the
> > safety
> > valve.
>
> > I'd guess one question to ask is - is it made of aluminium or stainless
> > steel.
>
> > If it is aluminium like our two vintage Prestige cookers, ask - Am I
> > bovvered if
> > it damages my brain?
> > If it is a modern stainless steel cooker it probably has something more
> > subtle
> > than a weight to set the pressure.
> > We currently use a Spanish made pressure cooker that we bought in Lidl.
> > (where
> > else?)
>
> > >Mine is a Hi-dome. Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
> > >high with a removable weight.
>
> > Three nested weights. We have never used anything but all three at the
> > same
> > time.
>
> > > If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
> > >might not be able to help you much.
>
> > The cooking times are the same
>
> > >They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
> > >And other things, of course!
>
> > including near instant Dutch pea soup and marmalade.
> > --
>
> > Martin
>
> Martin it is aluminium on the inside and shiny on the outside like SS
> but inside it is definitely aluminium.  It has 3 weights.  I wonder if
> I should just buy a new one?  If so how many litres would anyone
> recommend?  In France they are all over 100-150 Euros, I haven't seen
> them in Lidl.
>
> ----------
> Don't even dream of getting rid of such a treasure!
> You'll have to experiment with it a bit, in general things take about a
> third of usual time to cook.  Don't be afraid of it, it will not explode and
> blow up your house.
> That said do not go away and leave it for hours and let it boil dry.  If you
> do the saucepan part will get a rounded bottom, and in effect is kn*ck*red
> as it won't sit on the stove - not to mention it will have blown all the
> gaskets it has ;-)
> Prestige were very kind to me when I did that with my first one.  I wrote to
> them claiming stupidity and they sent me a new saucepan part for next to
> nothing.
> As said upthread, if the gaskets are old, you can get spares.  You'll know
> if that's the case if when you bring it up to pressure, you see steam
> leaking out around the lid or around the pressure valve.
> Steam should come out only through the top where the weights are.
>
> Tina

Thank you Tina, I shall buy a new seal for the lid even though the old
one feels supple, it does leak.

Judith

On Oct 22, 10:40 am, "Tim C."  wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:48:46 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France wrote in post > <news:57f3e632-f87f-4877-9977-d207b849bac0@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> :
>
>
>
> > On Oct 20, 9:56 pm, "Christina Websell"
> >  wrote:
> >> "Judith in France"  wrote in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
> >>> shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
> >>> technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
> >>> cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
> >>> have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
> >>> identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>
> >> Describe what it looks like.
>
> >> I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years.
> >> If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for
> >> it too!
>
> >> Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
> >> high with a removable weight.  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
> >> might not be able to help you much.
> >> They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
> >> And other things, of course!
>
> >> Tina
>
> > Thanks Tina, mine is not a high dome, it is flat with a red timer on
> > it, when it goes off it releases the steam automatically.  For a
> > start, I am thinking of using it today to make a simple beef stew,
> > never done it in a pressure cooker before, would you be able to give
> > me any idea how to proceed with times?  I will make it to the same
> > principle that I usually do.
>
> > Judith
>
> About a 1/3 of the time you'd normally simmer it is a good starting point> An Austrian gulasch takes about 90 minutes normally and in my PC is ready
> in 20-30 minutes.  If it's not enough, just bung the lid on again and give
> it another 5-10 minutes - it's already hot so won't take long to reach
> pressure again.
> Don't use quite as much liquid as you otherwise would, as you don't lose as
> much in evaporation. You can always boil it off at the end though, of
> course.
>
> --
> Tim C.  

Thank you Tim, I have appreciated all the advice given here and I
certainly am going to give it a go.

Judith

On Oct 22, 2:48 pm, S Viemeister  wrote:
> Martin wrote:
> > On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:57:09 퍝, S Viemeister 
> > wrote:
>
> >> Martin wrote:
>
> >>> Wait until Lidl have a special offer Spanish stainless steel cooker.
>
> >> The Spanish pressure cooker I have, has a very thick aluminium sandwich
> >> base - the rest is stainless.
>
> > The part in contact with the food is all stainless?
>
> Yes.  Yesterday, I used it to make a very thick lentil soup - no
> sticking, no scorching, easy clean-up.
>
> > I'll have a look and see if I can find the make of ours on it.
>
> Fagor has a website - you could see if yours looks like any of theirs
> (they have a range of models).
> Mine doesn't have weights - it's what they call a 'second generation'
> pressure cooker.

I love lentil soup, can I have the recipe for the Pressure cooker way
of doing it, thanks.

Judith

Christina Websell wrote:
> Don't even dream of getting rid of such a treasure!
> You'll have to experiment with it a bit, in general things take about
> a third of usual time to cook.  Don't be afraid of it, it will not
> explode and blow up your house.
> That said do not go away and leave it for hours and let it boil dry. If
> you do the saucepan part will get a rounded bottom,


Many years ago, I did that to mine.  I sent it back and they 'reground' it!
I don't know if they would do that now.

Christina Websell wrote:
> Well, I thought the same.
> I started to feel ill last Thursday.  I went to work Thurs and Fri,
> not a well person, flu like symptoms and a higher temperature than
> normal. Holed up over the weekend feeling very ill indeed.  Struggled
> to work on Monday and Tuesday. Wednesday gave it best and called in
> sick. To find that so had my manager and two other colleagues, I hope
> I did not spread it to them.  I suspect I did.
> I'm not saying I have swine flu, but how to know the difference?


You don't unless they take swabs.  I was ill and received Tamiflu.  No
swabs:(  My doc now says I need the H1N1 vac. because we don't know if I did
have it.  I think I am starting to prefer not...

On Oct 21, 2:31 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:03:35 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> >On Oct 21, 12:30 am, "Bertie Doe"  wrote:
> >> "Judith in France"  wrote
> >> in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure
> >> > cooker from a charity
> >> > shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was
> >> > tried by their
> >> > technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.
> >> > However, I don't have a
> >> > cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it,
> >> > the timings etc?  I
> >> > have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks
> >> > and I can't
> >> > identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?
> >> > Please?
>
> >> > Judith
>
> >> I have a Prestige Cooker and the paperback book I use
> >> is by Kathleen Broughtonhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&fie...
>
> >> The smallest weight will give a temperature of 109C and
> >> using all 3 weights will give a temperature of 121C. A
> >> 1.5 kg chicken will take about 25 mins at 121C. You
> >> start the timing the moment the cooker starts hissing -
> >> you then reduce the heat. Golden rule : make sure there
> >> is ample liquid in the cooker (water, wine, stock etc).
>
> >> The Coq au vin recipe uses 5 fl oz red wine, button
> >> mushrooms, baby onions, glass brandy, butter, slice
> >> bacon, garlic, seasoning and lemon juice. The Southern
> >> chicken casserole recipe, uses 10 fl oz water and 5 fl
> >> oz chilli sauce. Enjoy.
>
> >I've printed this out Bertie, thanks, I will hold on a while about
> >ordering a cookbook until I am sure it is safe to use.
>
> They are always safe to use. The safety valve plug blows long before it can do
> any damage.
> --
>
> Martin

When I tested it with water, I have to admit I stood at the far end of
the room, it scared me as I just didn't know if it was faulty or not.
Apart from water coming off the lid, where the seal is, it seemed o.k.

Judith

On 22 Oct 2009 15:19:40 GMT,  wrote:

>graham  wrote:
>> Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week as the 
>> local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil of oregano 
>> instead of the flu shots.
>
>I would have expected it to be oil of garlic rather than oregano.  Maybe
>just an extra helping of pizza will do ...
>
>As it happens, I'm planning on refusing the flu jab if it's offered to
>either me or the kids - as far as I can gather the whole thing is all
>just a media frenzy of panic instigated by the producers of Tamiflu!

That's another media propagated story LOL

The vaccine is not  produced by Tamiflu is it?

>Of course, when we're all dying in a few weeks time, I'll accept the
>obvious humble pie as a last meal ...

Haven't more than 70 people died of swine flu in UK already?

MMR vaccine all over again?

In the Netherlands everybody over 59 gets a free vaccination in addition to the
normal flu vaccination. I think young & sick people get a free vaccination too.
We go for our first swine flu vaccination next week.
AFAIR the Dutch have bought enough vaccine for everybody in the population.
-- 

Martin

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:07:10 -0600, "graham"  wrote:

>
>"Giusi"  wrote in message 
>news:7kap94F38tl5iU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Martin"
>>
>>> Aluminium from pans is considered to contribute to dementia.
>>
>> No, that was an urban myth and has been disproved in many studies over thw 
>> last 15 years or so.
>
>Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week as the 
>local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil of oregano 
>instead of the flu shots.

Very on topic LOL
-- 

Martin

On Oct 22, 7:37 am, Peter Parry  wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>
>  wrote:
>
> >Martin it is aluminium on the inside and shiny on the outside like SS
> >but inside it is definitely aluminium.
>
> It is aluminium.  For a pressure cooker aluminium is preferable to
> stainless steel as it conducts heat better and has fewer hot spots.
> The Prestige pressure cooker was one of the best ever made.
>
> > It has 3 weights.
>
> The weights are stamped L,.M and H and give pressures of 5, 10 and
> 15lbs per sq in (PSI).  15PSI is the one most often used (all three
> weights together).
>
> > I wonder if I should just buy a new one?  
>
> You are unlikely to find a better one than the old heavy aluminium
> Prestige one.  Spares are easy to get.  The large seal (gasket)
> eventually hardens as does the rubber around the safety valve.  When
> this happens they leak slightly.
>
>  The safety valve is both a pressure release (the metal bit pops out
> at high pressure) and overheat device - it is made of a low melting
> point alloy and if the pressure cooker runs dry and starts to overheat
> will melt releasing the pressure.  In 30 years of using them I've
> never had a safety valve operate!  
>
> Beware of American recipes and American advice on pressure cookers.
> The Americans produced some really dire spring controlled pressure
> cookers in the early 1900's many of which exploded and gave the
> pressure cooker a poor reputation.  American cookers tend to have
> pressure dials and complicated clamps.   As a result of their early
> experiences Americans tend to be very wary of pressure cookers and
> have dire warnings about never using old or second hand ones.
>
> The Prestige weight controlled ones are very simple, very safe and
> such warnings are quite inappropriate for them.
>
> One result is that  some pressure cookers on American markets are
> often called "safety cookers" and operate at lower pressures (10 PSI
> max)  than the Prestige with correspondingly longer cooking times.
>
> Don't fill more than half full with liquids or 2/3 full with solids.
> Minimum water to use is about 300-500ml.
>
> Cooling can be either by turning the heat off and leaving it (takes
> about 30 mins if half full of liquid) or by putting it in a sink and
> running cold water over it until the pressure falls.  This only takes
> a minute but with things like beans the rapid pressure drop can cause
> some to split.  Cold water suits vegetables well as they have a very
> short cooking time and would over cook if left to cool by themselves.
>
> As a rough guide its best for things like stews which will take about
> 1/3rd of their normal cooking time.  It will cook dried beans very
> well without the need for pre-soaking.  I've probably got a Prestige
> book and timing chart somewhere I can copy if you like.

Thank you for all that information, it's very kind of you to offer to
copy the Prestige book, is it many pages as I wouldn't want to put you
to any trouble?

Judith

ha scritto nel messaggio
> graham  wrote:
>> Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week as 
>> the >> local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil 
>> of oregano
>> instead of the flu shots.
>
> As it happens, I'm planning on refusing the flu jab if it's offered to> 
> either me or the kids - as far as I can gather the whole thing is all> 
> just a media frenzy of panic instigated by the producers of Tamiflu!
> Of course, when we're all dying in a few weeks time, I'll accept the> 
> obvious humble pie as a last meal ...

Like polio, if everyone would just get immunized however it happens, the flu 
would not be a problem.  I've already had the regular flu jab, will get the 
other when it is available to people not working in the public sector.  I 
get a red and swollen arm that hurts and itches, but one of the older folks 
I am around could die.  I think some would like to, but I don't want to be 
the Typhoid Mary.

wrote in message 
news:7kbbgcF384vatU2@mid.individual.net...
> graham  wrote:
>> Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week as 
>> the
>> local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil of 
>> oregano
>> instead of the flu shots.
>
> I would have expected it to be oil of garlic rather than oregano.  Maybe
> just an extra helping of pizza will do ...
>
> As it happens, I'm planning on refusing the flu jab if it's offered to
> either me or the kids - as far as I can gather the whole thing is all
> just a media frenzy of panic instigated by the producers of Tamiflu!
> Of course, when we're all dying in a few weeks time, I'll accept the
> obvious humble pie as a last meal ...
>
I can't afford the "luxury" of taking time off for the flu at the moment. 
Therefore I'll get the jab when it becomes available next week.
Graham

"Peter Parry"  wrote in message 
news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>  wrote:
>
>>


I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the results 
were not that good.
In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought out a 
bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.

Graham

graham wrote:
> "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
> news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>
>
> I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
> results were not that good.
> In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
> out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.

Well I have to agree in my case.   I used to use a pressure cooker a lot 
when the children were young, for all kinds of things.  These days, I make 
things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much more.

Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I didn't have 
before.

"graham"  wrote in message 
news:Ju1Em.43669$4E.8743@newsfe08.iad...
>
>  wrote in message 
> news:7kbbgcF384vatU2@mid.individual.net...
>> graham  wrote:
>>> Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week as 
>>> the
>>> local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil of 
>>> oregano
>>> instead of the flu shots.
>>
>> I would have expected it to be oil of garlic rather than oregano.  Maybe
>> just an extra helping of pizza will do ...
>>
>> As it happens, I'm planning on refusing the flu jab if it's offered to
>> either me or the kids - as far as I can gather the whole thing is all
>> just a media frenzy of panic instigated by the producers of Tamiflu!
>> Of course, when we're all dying in a few weeks time, I'll accept the
>> obvious humble pie as a last meal ...
>>
> I can't afford the "luxury" of taking time off for the flu at the moment. 
> Therefore I'll get the jab when it becomes available next week.
> Graham
>
Oh the luxury of having the flu, feeling like dying and with a huge 
temperature.
Get the jab to avoid the luxury of that, Graham.  And don't take your health 
for granted and make fun of it.

Tina

Ophelia  wrote:
> You don't unless they take swabs.  I was ill and received Tamiflu.  No
> swabs:(  My doc now says I need the H1N1 vac. because we don't know if I did
> have it.  I think I am starting to prefer not...

I'm curious about the 'at risk' list that it's being offered to.
young children (how young?), NHS workers, carers, people with illnesses
(asthma, cancer, heart problems, etc?)

Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
> The vaccine is not  produced by Tamiflu is it?

Oops, good point.  But I think the point still stands, if the names are
a little different.  :-P

>>Of course, when we're all dying in a few weeks time, I'll accept the
>>obvious humble pie as a last meal ...
> Haven't more than 70 people died of swine flu in UK already?
> MMR vaccine all over again?

I don't think it's the same thing.  Measles had a devastating affect on
a lot of children over the years.  70 deaths from swine flu is probably
not much higher than normal 'seasonal' flu death toll.  And anyhow, it's
the opposite to the MMR scare - that was people saying not to take it,
now the media is all about taking it!

"Ophelia"  wrote in message 
news:7kbpsiF38qde3U1@mid.individual.net...
> graham wrote:
>> "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
>> news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
>> results were not that good.
>> In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
>> out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.
>
> Well I have to agree in my case.   I used to use a pressure cooker a lot 
> when the children were young, for all kinds of things.  These days, I make 
> things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much more.
>
> Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I didn't 
> have before.
My Mum's method was to let it simmer all day.  She had a pressure cooker but 
after a woman in the village was badly scalded when hers exploded, the top 
was never used again.  I tried to shorten the time for making it but it 
didn't work out.
Graham

"Christina Websell"  wrote in message 
news:7kbqpcF38eec2U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "graham"  wrote in message 
> news:Ju1Em.43669$4E.8743@newsfe08.iad...
>>
>>  wrote in message 
>> news:7kbbgcF384vatU2@mid.individual.net...
>>> graham  wrote:
>>>> Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week 
>>>> as the
>>>> local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil of 
>>>> oregano
>>>> instead of the flu shots.
>>>
>>> I would have expected it to be oil of garlic rather than oregano.  Maybe
>>> just an extra helping of pizza will do ...
>>>
>>> As it happens, I'm planning on refusing the flu jab if it's offered to
>>> either me or the kids - as far as I can gather the whole thing is all
>>> just a media frenzy of panic instigated by the producers of Tamiflu!
>>> Of course, when we're all dying in a few weeks time, I'll accept the
>>> obvious humble pie as a last meal ...
>>>
>> I can't afford the "luxury" of taking time off for the flu at the moment. 
>> Therefore I'll get the jab when it becomes available next week.
>> Graham
>>
> Oh the luxury of having the flu, feeling like dying and with a huge 
> temperature.
> Get the jab to avoid the luxury of that, Graham.  And don't take your 
> health for granted and make fun of it.
>
I don't have anybody to wait on me hand and foot, soo to speak.  Therefore 
it's no luxury{:-(
I had the Asian flu in the big epidemic in the late 50s and that wasn't at 
all pleasant.  Mum sent me back to school after 4 days - we must have been 
tougher then{;-)
Graham

On Oct 22, 9:39 pm, "graham"  wrote:
> "Ophelia"  wrote in message
>
> news:7kbpsiF38qde3U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > graham wrote:
> >> "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
> >>news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
> >>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> >>>  wrote:
>
> >> I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
> >> results were not that good.
> >> In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
> >> out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.
>
> > Well I have to agree in my case.   I used to use a pressure cooker a lot
> > when the children were young, for all kinds of things.  These days, I make
> > things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much more.
>
> > Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I didn't
> > have before.
>
> My Mum's method was to let it simmer all day.  She had a pressure cooker but
> after a woman in the village was badly scalded when hers exploded, the top
> was never used again.  I tried to shorten the time for making it but it
> didn't work out.
> Graham

Oh Lor, I am just going to bed, now I shall have nightmares about
exploding pressure cookers.

Judith

On Oct 22, 8:24 pm, "Ophelia"  wrote:
> graham wrote:
> > "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
> >news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> >>  wrote:
>
> > I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
> > results were not that good.
> > In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
> > out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.
>
> Well I have to agree in my case.   I used to use a pressure cooker a lot
> when the children were young, for all kinds of things.  These days, I mke
> things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much more> Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I didn't have
> before.

Strangely enough, I seem to have even less time since retirement.
Take today, we had to do some business stuff, I worked in the garden
for a few hours, essential cutting back work and taking down hanging
pots.  See to the chickens, i.e. clean them out, walk Lottie, prepare
a light early lunch then wash off the soil from my feet and change!
We didn't get home until around 5p.m. French time, then walk Lottie,
feed hens and throw together a supper of leftover soup and tourte.
This evening visit my elderly neighbour to ensure she is o.k. and
arrange to bring her dinner tomorrow.  Look at the ironing piling up
and sigh...  Now it is after midnight here, I still have to tale
Lottie out for 5 minutes and then shower and bed, I expect it will be
near 1.a.m. when I get there.  Tomorrow, we have some business to
attend to but before that all the usual walk Lottie, the hens...
Maybe I can find time to make an Irish stew in the PC if I have a
recipe, hint.

Judith

On 2009-10-22 21:42:42 +0100, "graham"  said:

> 
> "Christina Websell"  wrote in message
> news:7kbqpcF38eec2U1@mid.individual.net...
>> 
>> "graham"  wrote in message
>> news:Ju1Em.43669$4E.8743@newsfe08.iad...
>>> 
>>>  wrote in message
>>> news:7kbbgcF384vatU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>> graham  wrote:
>>>>> Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week
>>>>> as the
>>>>> local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil of
>>>>> oregano
>>>>> instead of the flu shots.
>>>> 
>>>> I would have expected it to be oil of garlic rather than oregano.  Maybe
>>>> just an extra helping of pizza will do ...
>>>> 
>>>> As it happens, I'm planning on refusing the flu jab if it's offered to
>>>> either me or the kids - as far as I can gather the whole thing is all
>>>> just a media frenzy of panic instigated by the producers of Tamiflu!
>>>> Of course, when we're all dying in a few weeks time, I'll accept the
>>>> obvious humble pie as a last meal ...
>>>> 
>>> I can't afford the "luxury" of taking time off for the flu at the moment.
>>> Therefore I'll get the jab when it becomes available next week.
>>> Graham
>>> 
>> Oh the luxury of having the flu, feeling like dying and with a huge
>> temperature.
>> Get the jab to avoid the luxury of that, Graham.  And don't take your
>> health for granted and make fun of it.
>> 
> I don't have anybody to wait on me hand and foot, soo to speak.  Therefore
> it's no luxury{:-(
> I had the Asian flu in the big epidemic in the late 50s and that wasn't at
> all pleasant.  Mum sent me back to school after 4 days - we must have been
> tougher then{;-)
> Graham

When I was a child the general rule in most families was that if you 
had no temperature you went to school.  If you'd been really ill *and* 
had a temperature you might get 24 hours without one before being sent 
back to school.
-- 
Sacha

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:05:00 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>On Oct 22, 9:39 pm, "graham"  wrote:
>> "Ophelia"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:7kbpsiF38qde3U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> > graham wrote:
>> >> "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
>> >>news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
>> >>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>> >>>  wrote:
>>
>> >> I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
>> >> results were not that good.
>> >> In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
>> >> out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.
>>
>> > Well I have to agree in my case.   I used to use a pressure cooker a lot
>> > when the children were young, for all kinds of things.  These days, I make
>> > things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much more.
>>
>> > Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I didn't
>> > have before.
>>
>> My Mum's method was to let it simmer all day.  She had a pressure cooker but
>> after a woman in the village was badly scalded when hers exploded, the top
>> was never used again.  I tried to shorten the time for making it but it
>> didn't work out.
>> Graham
>
>Oh Lor, I am just going to bed, now I shall have nightmares about
>exploding pressure cookers.

The words "urban legend" come to mind, again. :o) 

I did about the worst thing you can do with a pressure cooker I overfilled it
the safety valve popped out and the kitchen ceiling was sprayed with pea soup.
-- 

Martin

Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
> The words "urban legend" come to mind, again. :o) 
> 
> I did about the worst thing you can do with a pressure cooker I overfilled it
> the safety valve popped out and the kitchen ceiling was sprayed with pea soup.

I suppose if you'd been leaning over the pea soup at the time, you could 
have ended up a badly scalded woman ... (if you'd got the trajectory
just right)

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message 
news:iqo1e5dhpp2dvee1f2tjlaa765sehgt8i6@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:05:00 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>  wrote:
>
>>On Oct 22, 9:39 pm, "graham"  wrote:
>>> "Ophelia"  wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:7kbpsiF38qde3U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> > graham wrote:
>>> >> "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
>>> >>news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
>>> >>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>>> >>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> >> I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
>>> >> results were not that good.
>>> >> In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
>>> >> out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.
>>>
>>> > Well I have to agree in my case. I used to use a pressure cooker a lot
>>> > when the children were young, for all kinds of things. These days, I 
>>> > make
>>> > things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much 
>>> > more.
>>>
>>> > Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I 
>>> > didn't
>>> > have before.
>>>
>>> My Mum's method was to let it simmer all day. She had a pressure cooker 
>>> but
>>> after a woman in the village was badly scalded when hers exploded, the 
>>> top
>>> was never used again. I tried to shorten the time for making it but it
>>> didn't work out.
>>> Graham
>>
>>Oh Lor, I am just going to bed, now I shall have nightmares about
>>exploding pressure cookers.
>
> The words "urban legend" come to mind, again. :o)
>
Not an urban legend!  This happened in the kitchen of a farmouse on the 
outskirts of the village.  Not even a village legend!
Graham

The message 
from  contains these words:


> I'm curious about the 'at risk' list that it's being offered to.
> young children (how young?), NHS workers, carers, people with illnesses
> (asthma, cancer, heart problems, etc?)

   They are first in the queue .
   The plan is to vaccinate the entire population but its an enormous
undertaking ; so  it makes sense to offer vaccination to those at
highest risk first.

   Janet

The message 
from  contains these words:

> Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
> > The vaccine is not  produced by Tamiflu is it?

> Oops, good point.  But I think the point still stands, if the names are
> a little different.  :-P

> >>Of course, when we're all dying in a few weeks time, I'll accept the
> >>obvious humble pie as a last meal ...
> > Haven't more than 70 people died of swine flu in UK already?
> > MMR vaccine all over again?

> I don't think it's the same thing.  Measles had a devastating affect on
> a lot of children over the years.  70 deaths from swine flu is probably
> not much higher than normal 'seasonal' flu death toll. 

   The UK swine flu fatality figure is 128, not 70 . More than half,
were age below 45.  In Scotland today, four  died in one day.
   The number of  new swine flu cases  this week, is double  the number
last week.
   
  
    Janet

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:11:11 +0200, Martin wrote in post :
<news:8011e5hgpsm9qm39njdk3d45rv4irdu77o@4ax.com> :

> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:07:10 -0600, "graham"  wrote:
> 
>>
>>"Giusi"  wrote in message 
>>news:7kap94F38tl5iU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Martin"
>>>
>>>> Aluminium from pans is considered to contribute to dementia.
>>>
>>> No, that was an urban myth and has been disproved in many studies over thw 
>>> last 15 years or so.
>>
>>Along with mercury in vaccines.  That canard has resurfaced this week as the 
>>local "alternative medicine" nutcases are suggesting we take oil of oregano 
>>instead of the flu shots.
> 
> Very on topic LOL

Nuts and oregano, with blue cheese and port sauce.    :-)

-- 
Tim C.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:05:47 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France wrote in post :
<news:107f2942-cfa4-43ee-a71b-85d62ed822fd@r31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> :

> On Oct 22, 10:40 am, "Tim C."  wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:48:46 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France wrote in post :
>> <news:57f3e632-f87f-4877-9977-d207b849bac0@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> :
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 20, 9:56 pm, "Christina Websell"
>>>  wrote:
>>>> "Judith in France"  wrote in messagenews:770f8051-632f-498d-aec5-8a388fbe126b@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>> Help!!!  I bought a Prestige Automatic Pressure cooker from a charity
>>>>> shop that my friends help to run.  The cooker was tried by their
>>>>> technical staff and proclaimed safe for use.  However, I don't have a
>>>>> cookbook, I don't have the faintest how to use it, the timings etc?  I
>>>>> have Googled until my eyes are goggling out on stalks and I can't
>>>>> identify the model or find a cookbook, any advice?  Please?
>>
>>>> Describe what it looks like.
>>
>>>> I have a Prestige pressure cooker that I have loved and used for 20 years.
>>>> If yours is like mine, I can help you with timing and I have a cookbook for
>>>> it too!
>>
>>>> Mine is  a Hi-dome.   Very large saucepan and the lid is a couple of inches
>>>> high with a removable weight.  If yours is more modern with a flat lid I
>>>> might not be able to help you much.
>>>> They are brilliant for making stock from chicken carcases.
>>>> And other things, of course!
>>
>>>> Tina
>>
>>> Thanks Tina, mine is not a high dome, it is flat with a red timer on
>>> it, when it goes off it releases the steam automatically.  For a
>>> start, I am thinking of using it today to make a simple beef stew,
>>> never done it in a pressure cooker before, would you be able to give
>>> me any idea how to proceed with times?  I will make it to the same
>>> principle that I usually do.
>>
>>> Judith
>>
>> About a 1/3 of the time you'd normally simmer it is a good starting point.
>> An Austrian gulasch takes about 90 minutes normally and in my PC is ready
>> in 20-30 minutes.  If it's not enough, just bung the lid on again and give
>> it another 5-10 minutes - it's already hot so won't take long to reach
>> pressure again.
>> Don't use quite as much liquid as you otherwise would, as you don't lose as
>> much in evaporation. You can always boil it off at the end though, of
>> course.
>>
>> --
>> Tim C.  
> 
> Thank you Tim, I have appreciated all the advice given here and I
> certainly am going to give it a go.
> 
> Judith

I don't use it every day, but it's one of the things I wouldn't be without
in my kitchen. 

-- 
Tim C.

"Judith in France"  wrote in message 
news:612caf4f-1858-4000-9255-c1d16018bae8@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 22, 8:24 pm, "Ophelia"  wrote:
> graham wrote:
> > "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
> >news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> >>  wrote:
>
> > I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
> > results were not that good.
> > In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
> > out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.
>
> Well I have to agree in my case. I used to use a pressure cooker a lot
> when the children were young, for all kinds of things. These days, I mke
> things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much more.
>
> Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I didn't 
> have
> before.

Strangely enough, I seem to have even less time since retirement.
Take today, we had to do some business stuff, I worked in the garden
for a few hours, essential cutting back work and taking down hanging
pots.  See to the chickens, i.e. clean them out, walk Lottie, prepare
a light early lunch then wash off the soil from my feet and change!
We didn't get home until around 5p.m. French time, then walk Lottie,
feed hens and throw together a supper of leftover soup and tourte.
This evening visit my elderly neighbour to ensure she is o.k. and
arrange to bring her dinner tomorrow.  Look at the ironing piling up
and sigh...  Now it is after midnight here, I still have to tale
Lottie out for 5 minutes and then shower and bed, I expect it will be
near 1.a.m. when I get there.  Tomorrow, we have some business to
attend to but before that all the usual walk Lottie, the hens...
Maybe I can find time to make an Irish stew in the PC if I have a
recipe, hint.

    But, but, but one doesn't have to be in constant attendance when things 
are cooking very slowly......

Janet Baraclough  wrote:
>   The plan is to vaccinate the entire population 

Is it?  I hadn't realised.

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:35:16 +0100, "Ophelia"  wrote:

>
>"Judith in France"  wrote in message 
>news:612caf4f-1858-4000-9255-c1d16018bae8@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
>On Oct 22, 8:24 pm, "Ophelia"  wrote:
>> graham wrote:
>> > "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
>> >news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
>> >> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>> >>  wrote:
>>
>> > I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
>> > results were not that good.
>> > In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
>> > out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.
>>
>> Well I have to agree in my case. I used to use a pressure cooker a lot
>> when the children were young, for all kinds of things. These days, I mke
>> things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much more.
>>
>> Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I didn't 
>> have
>> before.
>
>Strangely enough, I seem to have even less time since retirement.
>Take today, we had to do some business stuff, I worked in the garden
>for a few hours, essential cutting back work and taking down hanging
>pots.  See to the chickens, i.e. clean them out, walk Lottie, prepare
>a light early lunch then wash off the soil from my feet and change!
>We didn't get home until around 5p.m. French time, then walk Lottie,
>feed hens and throw together a supper of leftover soup and tourte.
>This evening visit my elderly neighbour to ensure she is o.k. and
>arrange to bring her dinner tomorrow.  Look at the ironing piling up
>and sigh...  Now it is after midnight here, I still have to tale
>Lottie out for 5 minutes and then shower and bed, I expect it will be
>near 1.a.m. when I get there.  Tomorrow, we have some business to
>attend to but before that all the usual walk Lottie, the hens...
>Maybe I can find time to make an Irish stew in the PC if I have a
>recipe, hint.
>
>    But, but, but one doesn't have to be in constant attendance when things 
>are cooking very slowly...... 

What about if there is a virus in her PC?
-- 

Martin

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:2js2e5hvmmmte37jipvcbtk9sceha7jd23@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:35:16 +0100, "Ophelia" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Judith in France"  wrote in message
>>news:612caf4f-1858-4000-9255-c1d16018bae8@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
>>On Oct 22, 8:24 pm, "Ophelia"  wrote:
>>> graham wrote:
>>> > "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
>>> >news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
>>> >> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>>> >>  wrote:
>>>
>>> > I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
>>> > results were not that good.
>>> > In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
>>> > out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.
>>>
>>> Well I have to agree in my case. I used to use a pressure cooker a lot
>>> when the children were young, for all kinds of things. These days, I mke
>>> things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much
>>> more.
>>>
>>> Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I didn't
>>> have
>>> before.
>>
>>Strangely enough, I seem to have even less time since retirement.
>>Take today, we had to do some business stuff, I worked in the garden
>>for a few hours, essential cutting back work and taking down hanging
>>pots.  See to the chickens, i.e. clean them out, walk Lottie, prepare
>>a light early lunch then wash off the soil from my feet and change!
>>We didn't get home until around 5p.m. French time, then walk Lottie,
>>feed hens and throw together a supper of leftover soup and tourte.
>>This evening visit my elderly neighbour to ensure she is o.k. and
>>arrange to bring her dinner tomorrow.  Look at the ironing piling up
>>and sigh...  Now it is after midnight here, I still have to tale
>>Lottie out for 5 minutes and then shower and bed, I expect it will be
>>near 1.a.m. when I get there.  Tomorrow, we have some business to
>>attend to but before that all the usual walk Lottie, the hens...
>>Maybe I can find time to make an Irish stew in the PC if I have a
>>recipe, hint.
>>
>>    But, but, but one doesn't have to be in constant attendance when
>> things
>>are cooking very slowly......
>
> What about if there is a virus in her PC?

haha I missed that one..

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:35:16 +0100, Ophelia wrote in post :
<news:7kd6s9F39861kU1@mid.individual.net> :

> See to the chickens, i.e. clean them out, walk Lottie,

You walk your chickens?   8-o 
-- 
Tim C.

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:05:17 +0100, Ophelia wrote in post :
<news:7kddf7F37uf1bU1@mid.individual.net> :

> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
> news:2js2e5hvmmmte37jipvcbtk9sceha7jd23@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:35:16 +0100, "Ophelia" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Judith in France"  wrote in message
>>>news:612caf4f-1858-4000-9255-c1d16018bae8@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
>>>On Oct 22, 8:24 pm, "Ophelia"  wrote:
>>>> graham wrote:
>>>> > "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
>>>> >news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
>>>> >> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>>>> >>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
>>>> > results were not that good.
>>>> > In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
>>>> > out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.
>>>>
>>>> Well I have to agree in my case. I used to use a pressure cooker a lot
>>>> when the children were young, for all kinds of things. These days, I mke
>>>> things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much
>>>> more.
>>>>
>>>> Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I didn't
>>>> have
>>>> before.
>>>
>>>Strangely enough, I seem to have even less time since retirement.
>>>Take today, we had to do some business stuff, I worked in the garden
>>>for a few hours, essential cutting back work and taking down hanging
>>>pots.  See to the chickens, i.e. clean them out, walk Lottie, prepare
>>>a light early lunch then wash off the soil from my feet and change!
>>>We didn't get home until around 5p.m. French time, then walk Lottie,
>>>feed hens and throw together a supper of leftover soup and tourte.
>>>This evening visit my elderly neighbour to ensure she is o.k. and
>>>arrange to bring her dinner tomorrow.  Look at the ironing piling up
>>>and sigh...  Now it is after midnight here, I still have to tale
>>>Lottie out for 5 minutes and then shower and bed, I expect it will be
>>>near 1.a.m. when I get there.  Tomorrow, we have some business to
>>>attend to but before that all the usual walk Lottie, the hens...
>>>Maybe I can find time to make an Irish stew in the PC if I have a
>>>recipe, hint.
>>>
>>>    But, but, but one doesn't have to be in constant attendance when
>>> things
>>>are cooking very slowly......
>>
>> What about if there is a virus in her PC?
> 
> haha I missed that one..

The intense heat and pressure will kill it :-)
-- 
Tim C.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:05:00 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
 wrote:

>Oh Lor, I am just going to bed, now I shall have nightmares about
>exploding pressure cookers.

They don't explode.  The only ones which did were some dreadfully made
American ones in 1900-1930.  More recently, and again in America, a
number of complicated designs with over centre lid clamps have had
problems.  For some reason Americans seem to like designing
complicated and unreliable pressure cookers when simple and reliable
designs exist.

The Prestige design is beautifully simple.  Using weights rather than
springs is both more accurate and more reliable than spring controlled
pressure control.  The lid locks into place as the pressure increases
simply by designing the lip with several small ramps on the locking
lugs - as the pressure rises it pushes the lid up against these making
it impossible to remove the lid if the cooker is pressurised.  The top
and bottom handles line up when the lid is in the closed position.  It
is simple, elegant and hugely reliable design.

What does happen is that if you remove the weights while it is at
pressure the contents will boil violently.  This is because the raised
pressure has raised the boiling point of the liquid.  At 5PSI above
normal, water boils at about 110deg C, at 10PSI about 115deg C and at
15PSI about 120deg C.

If the liquid is at 110deg removing the weight reduces the pressure
and the liquid, still at 110deg all tries to turn to steam instantly
and boils violently.

This causes the contents to  spray straight upwards out of the central
weight support.  Gravy covered ceilings are very difficult to clean,
pea soup doesn't bear thinking about!

We managed to do this once.  It is very impressive.  The cats had a
vision of heaven and  happily sat on the floor with their tongues out
while beef stew rained down around them.

The rule is pretty simple - if anything goes wrong just turn off the
heat and leave it to settle down.  Don't ever take the weight off!

On Oct 23, 11:21 am, "Tim C."  wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:35:16 퍝, Ophelia wrote in post :
> <news:7kd6s9F39861kU1@mid.individual.net> :
>
> > See to the chickens, i.e. clean them out, walk Lottie,
>
> You walk your chickens?   8-o
> --
> Tim C.  

Lottie is my Cane Corso!  I moved the Eglu yesterday, only a few
feet.  When I checked last night, no chickens in bed, this morning not
a sight of them.  I'm hoping there are in the barn so it's time to go
out looking, I just hope the fox didn't get them.

Judith

On Oct 22, 10:36 am, "Tim C."  wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France wrote in post > <news:9fd11593-f23f-48be-bd31-b53c224cccdf@m1g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> :
>
> > .  I wonder if I should just buy a new one?
>
> New ones are expensive, all makes. :-(
> You will need to adjust even the Prestige's own recipes a bit to your own
> cooker, and so you can use any general pressure-cooker recipe book  ime> You'll just have to try one or two simple recipes to get an idea of the
> book's "high" and "low" settings and how they compare to your actual ones> Are you sure it's not brushed/matt SS on the inside? My (Fissler) ones are.
>
> --
> Tim C.  

No, it's definitely not SS.

Judith

The message 
from  contains these words:

> Janet Baraclough  wrote:
> >   The plan is to vaccinate the entire population 

> Is it?  I hadn't realised.


http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Swineflu/DG_177918

<quote>

Contracts have been signed with two manufacturers to supply enough
vaccine for the whole population. 
<endquote>

 
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Pandemic-flu/Pages/Vaccine.aspx

<quote>

The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) has advised
that the use of the vaccine in the wider healthy population should
depend on how the pandemic evolves and on emerging clinical data on the
use of the vaccine.

Enough vaccine has been ordered for the whole population, and its use
will be kept under review.

  <end quote>

  Janet.

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message 
news:iqo1e5dhpp2dvee1f2tjlaa765sehgt8i6@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:05:00 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>  wrote:
>
>>On Oct 22, 9:39 pm, "graham"  wrote:
>>> "Ophelia"  wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:7kbpsiF38qde3U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> > graham wrote:
>>> >> "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
>>> >>news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
>>> >>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>>> >>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> >> I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
>>> >> results were not that good.
>>> >> In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
>>> >> out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.
>>>
>>> > Well I have to agree in my case. I used to use a pressure cooker a lot
>>> > when the children were young, for all kinds of things. These days, I 
>>> > make
>>> > things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much 
>>> > more.
>>>
>>> > Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I 
>>> > didn't
>>> > have before.
>>>
>>> My Mum's method was to let it simmer all day. She had a pressure cooker 
>>> but
>>> after a woman in the village was badly scalded when hers exploded, the 
>>> top
>>> was never used again. I tried to shorten the time for making it but it
>>> didn't work out.
>>> Graham
>>
>>Oh Lor, I am just going to bed, now I shall have nightmares about
>>exploding pressure cookers.
>
> The words "urban legend" come to mind, again. :o)
>
> I did about the worst thing you can do with a pressure cooker I overfilled 
> it
> the safety valve popped out and the kitchen ceiling was sprayed with pea 
> soup.
> -- 

Operator error!
Pressure cookers are perfectly safe if you are sensible.  Don't overfill 
them with solids, don't underfill them with water, don't go out and leave 
them simmering away, they'll boil dry.
The safety valve on mine is there just to vent pressure in an emergency 
(like you forgot it and it boiled dry)   No pea soup could possibly come out 
of it, the vent hole is about 1mm.
Martin is having a joke with you, Judith.
Get a new gasket for the lid and enjoy your new pressure cooker ;-)

Even if you use it with a leaking lid gasket, it's still safe - it just 
means the food inside is not under so much pressure and will take longer to 
cook.

Tina

On 2009-10-23 16:09:27 +0100, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:

> On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:08:57 +0100, Janet Baraclough
>  wrote:
> 
>> The message 
>> from Martin <me@address.invalid> contains these words:
>> 
>>> It is strange how many claim to have caught it in UK and Germany and how few
>>> have caught it in The Netherlands.
>> 
>> According to the Dutch Institute of  Health
> 
> 
>> 
>> http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/dutch-teenager-dies-h1n1
>> 
>> <quote>
>> 
>> " In the past week the numbers of people being admitted to hospital with
>> H1N1 has doubled. Most of them are younger than 65. This week, the
>> incidence was highest among babies and toddlers. Previous weeks have
>> shown a peak in hospital admissions among 15 to 24 year-olds. However
>> the group most in need of intensive care were the 5 to 14-year-olds."
> 
> "An official epidemic is reported when doctors see more than 55 people in two
> consecutive weeks with the disease out of every 100,000 people in the
> Netherlands. Health institute Nivel, which helped compile the figures, says
> between 5 and 11 October doctors saw 69 cases per 100,000 people, and the same
> number in the next week."
> 
> http://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopics/Documents/091023_Influenza_AH1N1_Situation_Report_0900hrs.pdf
There 
> 
> are currently 24 patients with H1N1 in Dutch hopsitals including 4 in
> intensive care. The equivalent figure for England with around 3 times the
> population is 506 and 99.
> "Data includes all probable cases for England only. Does not include Scotland
> (380 cumulative hospitalisations), Wales (126) and Northern Ireland (346)."
> http://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopics/Documents/091023_Influenza_AH1N1_Situation_Report_0900hrs.pdf


In 
> 
> the summer when tens of thousands were supposed to have the flu in UK and
> Germany the figure in NL was a bit over a thousand I think that figure 
> was later
> greatly reduced.
> 
>> 
>>> In the NHS trust where a close relative works
>>> in England only one of the many claiming to have caught it actually had it.
>> 
>> The official figures in the UK , are cases diagnosed by doctors and
>> deaths certified by doctors.  Nothing to do with patients
>> self-diagnosis.
> 
> I thought that in UK there is a hotline for self diagnosis to avoid doctors
> being swamped by patients claiming to have the flu.
> I was referring to hospital staff in an NHS Trust, who claimed to have the flu.

There is such a hotline, manned, to some extent, by people who have no 
real medical background.  People ringing in have been told they have 
swine flu in some cases.  Who knows how many of those are correct or 
whether such 'diagnoses' are added to the statistics.
-- 
Sacha

On Oct 23, 6:14 pm, "Christina Websell"
 wrote:
> "Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:iqo1e5dhpp2dvee1f2tjlaa765sehgt8i6@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:05:00 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> >  wrote:
>
> >>On Oct 22, 9:39 pm, "graham"  wrote:
> >>> "Ophelia"  wrote in message
>
> >>>news:7kbpsiF38qde3U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> >>> > graham wrote:
> >>> >> "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
> >>> >>news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
> >>> >>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> >>> >>>  wrote:
>
> >>> >> I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, the
> >>> >> results were not that good.
> >>> >> In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it brought
> >>> >> out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after that.
>
> >>> > Well I have to agree in my case. I used to use a pressure cooker a lot
> >>> > when the children were young, for all kinds of things. These days, I
> >>> > make
> >>> > things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much
> >>> > more.
>
> >>> > Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I
> >>> > didn't
> >>> > have before.
>
> >>> My Mum's method was to let it simmer all day. She had a pressure cooker
> >>> but
> >>> after a woman in the village was badly scalded when hers exploded, the
> >>> top
> >>> was never used again. I tried to shorten the time for making it but it
> >>> didn't work out.
> >>> Graham
>
> >>Oh Lor, I am just going to bed, now I shall have nightmares about
> >>exploding pressure cookers.
>
> > The words "urban legend" come to mind, again. :o)
>
> > I did about the worst thing you can do with a pressure cooker I overfilled
> > it
> > the safety valve popped out and the kitchen ceiling was sprayed with pea
> > soup.
> > --
>
> Operator error!
> Pressure cookers are perfectly safe if you are sensible.  Don't overfill
> them with solids, don't underfill them with water, don't go out and leave
> them simmering away, they'll boil dry.
> The safety valve on mine is there just to vent pressure in an emergency
> (like you forgot it and it boiled dry)   No pea soup could possibly come out
> of it, the vent hole is about 1mm.
> Martin is having a joke with you, Judith.
> Get a new gasket for the lid and enjoy your new pressure cooker ;-)
>
> Even if you use it with a leaking lid gasket, it's still safe - it just
> means the food inside is not under so much pressure and will take longer to
> cook.
>
> Tina

I used it today to make green tomato chutney, I was impressed how
quickly it softened the fruit.  It does leak, slightly.  I will go off
to the nearest town and take the lid with me to ensure a good fit for
the new seal.  I am wondering, please don't sigh... is the gasket the
metal thingy which hisses or the safety thing; or the rubber seal
round the rim?

Judith

"Judith in France"  wrote in message 
news:e418f3a4-4055-4854-bc5f-8adf53191248@a6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 23, 6:14 pm, "Christina Websell"
 wrote:
> "Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:iqo1e5dhpp2dvee1f2tjlaa765sehgt8i6@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:05:00 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> >  wrote:
>
> >>On Oct 22, 9:39 pm, "graham"  wrote:
> >>> "Ophelia"  wrote in message
>
> >>>news:7kbpsiF38qde3U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> >>> > graham wrote:
> >>> >> "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
> >>> >>news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
> >>> >>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> >>> >>>  wrote:
>
> >>> >> I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, 
> >>> >> the
> >>> >> results were not that good.
> >>> >> In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it 
> >>> >> brought
> >>> >> out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after 
> >>> >> that.
>
> >>> > Well I have to agree in my case. I used to use a pressure cooker a 
> >>> > lot
> >>> > when the children were young, for all kinds of things. These days, I
> >>> > make
> >>> > things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much
> >>> > more.
>
> >>> > Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I
> >>> > didn't
> >>> > have before.
>
> >>> My Mum's method was to let it simmer all day. She had a pressure 
> >>> cooker
> >>> but
> >>> after a woman in the village was badly scalded when hers exploded, the
> >>> top
> >>> was never used again. I tried to shorten the time for making it but it
> >>> didn't work out.
> >>> Graham
>
> >>Oh Lor, I am just going to bed, now I shall have nightmares about
> >>exploding pressure cookers.
>
> > The words "urban legend" come to mind, again. :o)
>
> > I did about the worst thing you can do with a pressure cooker I 
> > overfilled
> > it
> > the safety valve popped out and the kitchen ceiling was sprayed with pea
> > soup.
> > --
>
> Operator error!
> Pressure cookers are perfectly safe if you are sensible. Don't overfill
> them with solids, don't underfill them with water, don't go out and leave
> them simmering away, they'll boil dry.
> The safety valve on mine is there just to vent pressure in an emergency
> (like you forgot it and it boiled dry) No pea soup could possibly come out
> of it, the vent hole is about 1mm.
> Martin is having a joke with you, Judith.
> Get a new gasket for the lid and enjoy your new pressure cooker ;-)
>
> Even if you use it with a leaking lid gasket, it's still safe - it just
> means the food inside is not under so much pressure and will take longer 
> to
> cook.
>
> Tina

I used it today to make green tomato chutney, I was impressed how
quickly it softened the fruit.  It does leak, slightly.  I will go off
to the nearest town and take the lid with me to ensure a good fit for
the new seal.  I am wondering, please don't sigh... is the gasket the
metal thingy which hisses or the safety thing; or the rubber seal
round the rim?

    The rubber seal thingy:)

"Judith in France"  wrote in message 
news:e418f3a4-4055-4854-bc5f-8adf53191248@a6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 23, 6:14 pm, "Christina Websell"
 wrote:
> "Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:iqo1e5dhpp2dvee1f2tjlaa765sehgt8i6@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:05:00 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> >  wrote:
>
> >>On Oct 22, 9:39 pm, "graham"  wrote:
> >>> "Ophelia"  wrote in message
>
> >>>news:7kbpsiF38qde3U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> >>> > graham wrote:
> >>> >> "Peter Parry"  wrote in message
> >>> >>news:t1tvd514olqoeob0ommh7bb2grdibb5c06@4ax.com...
> >>> >>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> >>> >>>  wrote:
>
> >>> >> I used to have one many years ago but found that in some dishes, 
> >>> >> the
> >>> >> results were not that good.
> >>> >> In particular, I remember using it to make pork cheese and it 
> >>> >> brought
> >>> >> out a bitter note in the flavour so I never used it much after 
> >>> >> that.
>
> >>> > Well I have to agree in my case. I used to use a pressure cooker a 
> >>> > lot
> >>> > when the children were young, for all kinds of things. These days, I
> >>> > make
> >>> > things slowly and it seems to bring out the flavour and texture much
> >>> > more.
>
> >>> > Still, I have the time these days, so perhaps that is a luxury I
> >>> > didn't
> >>> > have before.
>
> >>> My Mum's method was to let it simmer all day. She had a pressure 
> >>> cooker
> >>> but
> >>> after a woman in the village was badly scalded when hers exploded, the
> >>> top
> >>> was never used again. I tried to shorten the time for making it but it
> >>> didn't work out.
> >>> Graham
>
> >>Oh Lor, I am just going to bed, now I shall have nightmares about
> >>exploding pressure cookers.
>
> > The words "urban legend" come to mind, again. :o)
>
> > I did about the worst thing you can do with a pressure cooker I 
> > overfilled
> > it
> > the safety valve popped out and the kitchen ceiling was sprayed with pea
> > soup.
> > --
>
> Operator error!
> Pressure cookers are perfectly safe if you are sensible. Don't overfill
> them with solids, don't underfill them with water, don't go out and leave
> them simmering away, they'll boil dry.
> The safety valve on mine is there just to vent pressure in an emergency
> (like you forgot it and it boiled dry) No pea soup could possibly come out
> of it, the vent hole is about 1mm.
> Martin is having a joke with you, Judith.
> Get a new gasket for the lid and enjoy your new pressure cooker ;-)
>
> Even if you use it with a leaking lid gasket, it's still safe - it just
> means the food inside is not under so much pressure and will take longer 
> to
> cook.
>
> Tina

I used it today to make green tomato chutney, I was impressed how
quickly it softened the fruit.  It does leak, slightly.  I will go off
to the nearest town and take the lid with me to ensure a good fit for
the new seal.  I am wondering, please don't sigh... is the gasket the
metal thingy which hisses or the safety thing; or the rubber seal
round the rim?

---
It's the rubber seal round the rim.  You have to replace them occasionally, 
that's normal with pressure cookers.  Another gasket is around the safety 
thing, that can need replacing now and again but normally they last years.
Some people get rid of their pressure cooker when it starts to leak (sounds 
like how you got this one)   Silly, when a new gasket will return it to 
perfect.

Tina

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message 
news:673ud5dtg62q74qoghtd3obc395hnmjk7p@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:03:35 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>  wrote:
>
> They are always safe to use. The safety valve plug blows long before it 
> can do
> any damage.
> -- 
Yet still the myth persists that a pressure cooker will blow up in our 
kitchens.
Why?
I've used a pressure cooker now and again for 20 years.  It has failed to 
explode until now and it's unlikely to do so tomorrow.
Who started this ridiculous idea that pressure cookers were dangerous?

Tina

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:07:50 +0100, "Christina Websell"
 wrote:

>Who started this ridiculous idea that pressure cookers were dangerous?

The Americans.  However to be fair theirs were very dangerous 100
years ago.  They were popular for home canning so very large ones were
made for domestic use.  These were equipped with a single spring
loaded control valve and no overpressure release.  The control valves
were adjusted by reference to a pressure dial on the lid and apt to
clog.  If they did the often poorly made pans split explosively.

The message 
from "Christina Websell"  contains
these words:


> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:673ud5dtg62q74qoghtd3obc395hnmjk7p@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:03:35 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> >  wrote:
> >
> > They are always safe to use. The safety valve plug blows long before it 
> > can do
> > any damage.
> > -- 
> Yet still the myth persists that a pressure cooker will blow up in our 
> kitchens.
> Why?
> I've used a pressure cooker now and again for 20 years.  It has failed to 
> explode until now and it's unlikely to do so tomorrow.
> Who started this ridiculous idea that pressure cookers were dangerous?

   Do people never read the thread?  The answer has been provided at
least twice.

   In the USA, where a completely different design was used, there were
problems.
   So Americans think their pressure cookers are dangerous.

   In the UK, that design wasn't used, the problem  didn't arise, and
pressure cookers are well regarded.
   I've never had any problems with mine (only 40 years experience) and
neither has anyone I know.

   Janet

Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message 
> from  contains these words:
> 
>> Janet Baraclough  wrote:
>>>   The plan is to vaccinate the entire population 
> 
>> Is it?  I hadn't realised.
> 
> 
> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Swineflu/DG_177918
> 
> <quote>
> 
> Contracts have been signed with two manufacturers to supply enough
> vaccine for the whole population. 
> <endquote>
> 
>  
> http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Pandemic-flu/Pages/Vaccine.aspx
> 
> <quote>
> 
> The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) has advised
> that the use of the vaccine in the wider healthy population should
> depend on how the pandemic evolves and on emerging clinical data on the
> use of the vaccine.
> 
> Enough vaccine has been ordered for the whole population, and its use
> will be kept under review.
> 
>   <end quote>

Under this government, I won't be offering my arm to a needle. I don't 
trust them, or their 'advisors'  :-((

Dave

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:07:50 +0100, "Christina Websell"
 wrote:

>
>"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message 
>news:673ud5dtg62q74qoghtd3obc395hnmjk7p@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:03:35 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
>>  wrote:
>>
>> They are always safe to use. The safety valve plug blows long before it 
>> can do
>> any damage.
>> -- 
>Yet still the myth persists that a pressure cooker will blow up in our 
>kitchens.
>Why?
>I've used a pressure cooker now and again for 20 years.  It has failed to 
>explode until now and it's unlikely to do so tomorrow.
>Who started this ridiculous idea that pressure cookers were dangerous?

I think before the war there were designs that did blow up and were dangerous.
My parents generation all seemed to be convinced that pressure cookers were
dangerous. 
-- 

Martin

In message , Dave 
 writes
>Janet Baraclough wrote:
>> The message 
>> from  contains these words:
>>
>>> Janet Baraclough  wrote:
>>>>   The plan is to vaccinate the entire population
>>
>>> Is it?  I hadn't realised.
>>   http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Swineflu/DG_177918
>>  <quote>
>>  Contracts have been signed with two manufacturers to supply enough
>> vaccine for the whole population.  <endquote>
>>    http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Pandemic-flu/Pages/Vaccine.aspx
>>  <quote>
>>  The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) has 
>>advised
>> that the use of the vaccine in the wider healthy population should
>> depend on how the pandemic evolves and on emerging clinical data on the
>> use of the vaccine.
>>  Enough vaccine has been ordered for the whole population, and its 
>>use
>> will be kept under review.
>>    <end quote>
>
>Under this government, I won't be offering my arm to a needle. I don't 
>trust them, or their 'advisors'  :-((
>
>Dave

You are not old enough to have the jab anyway, are you Dave?

PS  If you think this government is bad, wait until we have the next.
-- 
June Hughes

On 2009-10-25 13:19:04 +0000, Jane Gillett  said:

> <snip>Being over 60, I am among the group with some residual resistance so that
> puts me lower down the list to be vaccinated. OTOH, being diabetic puts me
> up the list for most things so I dunno whether I'll be amongst the early
> ones. If I'm "called", I'll have it but I shall not worry if I'm not.
> 
> Cheers
> Jane

Jane, we go to the surgery in Buckfastleigh and Ray went there on 
Saturday for his 'ordinary' flu jab.  Although he's 76 and has Type 2 
diabetes, he was told that first in line for available vaccines will be 
pregnant women, health care workers and young children. People over 70, 
as he is, are right at the back of the queue.
-- 
Sacha

On 2009-10-26 13:34:18 +0000, "graham"  said:

> 
> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ca8be5d4pmu265990okb7gqs1sqtg66g8s@4ax.com...
>> On 26 Oct 2009 12:53:22 GMT,  wrote:
>> 
>>> Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> Yes, I do.  My reasons are probably not valid.  When I worked in a
>>>>> hospital, we were offered the routine flu vaccine every year.  I
>>>>> refused to have it and I did have pressure put on me which I resisted.
>>>>> I was told that I had to protect the patients etc.  I have deep set
>>>>> fears which may be totally irrational but I won't put a virus, albeit
>>>>> a dead one, into my body.
>>>> 
>>>> Will you be giving up breathing, eating and drinking soon too?
>>> 
>>> Everyone does, eventually.  Allegedly.
>> 
>> Hopefully not *soon*.
>> 
>> I had polio when I was a kid before polio vaccine was available.
>> If people had the same attitude to vaccination as Judith and a few Dutch
>> religious nutters, people would still be catching polio.
>> --
> And smallpox!
> AIUI, "vaccinate" is a word specifically for smallpox.  "Inoculate" is for
> all the other diseases.  Funny how language developes.
> Graham

I wonder if that's because the original smallpox vaccine came from 
cowpox inoculations.  Isn't the Latin for 'cow' vacca, or something 
similar?
-- 
Sacha

"Sacha"  wrote in message 
news:7klpniF38bv9pU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 2009-10-26 13:34:18 +0000, "graham"  said:
>
>>
>> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:ca8be5d4pmu265990okb7gqs1sqtg66g8s@4ax.com...
>>> On 26 Oct 2009 12:53:22 GMT,  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, I do.  My reasons are probably not valid.  When I worked in a
>>>>>> hospital, we were offered the routine flu vaccine every year.  I
>>>>>> refused to have it and I did have pressure put on me which I 
>>>>>> resisted.
>>>>>> I was told that I had to protect the patients etc.  I have deep set
>>>>>> fears which may be totally irrational but I won't put a virus, albeit
>>>>>> a dead one, into my body.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will you be giving up breathing, eating and drinking soon too?
>>>>
>>>> Everyone does, eventually.  Allegedly.
>>>
>>> Hopefully not *soon*.
>>>
>>> I had polio when I was a kid before polio vaccine was available.
>>> If people had the same attitude to vaccination as Judith and a few Dutch
>>> religious nutters, people would still be catching polio.
>>> --
>> And smallpox!
>> AIUI, "vaccinate" is a word specifically for smallpox.  "Inoculate" is 
>> for
>> all the other diseases.  Funny how language developes.
>> Graham
>
> I wonder if that's because the original smallpox vaccine came from cowpox 
> inoculations.  Isn't the Latin for 'cow' vacca, or something similar?
> -- 
Yes!  That's the origin of the word.
Graham

On 2009-10-26 14:47:15 +0000, "graham"  said:

> 
> "Sacha"  wrote in message
> news:7klpniF38bv9pU1@mid.individual.net...
>> On 2009-10-26 13:34:18 +0000, "graham"  said:
>> 
>>> 
>>> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:ca8be5d4pmu265990okb7gqs1sqtg66g8s@4ax.com...
>>>> On 26 Oct 2009 12:53:22 GMT,  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, I do.  My reasons are probably not valid.  When I worked in a
>>>>>>> hospital, we were offered the routine flu vaccine every year.  I
>>>>>>> refused to have it and I did have pressure put on me which I
>>>>>>> resisted.
>>>>>>> I was told that I had to protect the patients etc.  I have deep set
>>>>>>> fears which may be totally irrational but I won't put a virus, albeit
>>>>>>> a dead one, into my body.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Will you be giving up breathing, eating and drinking soon too?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Everyone does, eventually.  Allegedly.
>>>> 
>>>> Hopefully not *soon*.
>>>> 
>>>> I had polio when I was a kid before polio vaccine was available.
>>>> If people had the same attitude to vaccination as Judith and a few Dutch
>>>> religious nutters, people would still be catching polio.
>>>> --
>>> And smallpox!
>>> AIUI, "vaccinate" is a word specifically for smallpox.  "Inoculate" is
>>> for
>>> all the other diseases.  Funny how language developes.
>>> Graham
>> 
>> I wonder if that's because the original smallpox vaccine came from cowpox
>> inoculations.  Isn't the Latin for 'cow' vacca, or something similar?
>> --
> Yes!  That's the origin of the word.
> Graham

Now you say it, it makes sense but I'd never even considered it before.
-- 
Sacha

On 2009-10-26 17:05:07 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:

> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:23:46 +0000, Sacha  wrote:
> 
>> On 2009-10-26 13:34:18 +0000, "graham"  said:
>> 
>>> 
>>> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:ca8be5d4pmu265990okb7gqs1sqtg66g8s@4ax.com...
>>>> On 26 Oct 2009 12:53:22 GMT,  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, I do.  My reasons are probably not valid.  When I worked in a
>>>>>>> hospital, we were offered the routine flu vaccine every year.  I
>>>>>>> refused to have it and I did have pressure put on me which I resisted.
>>>>>>> I was told that I had to protect the patients etc.  I have deep set
>>>>>>> fears which may be totally irrational but I won't put a virus, albeit
>>>>>>> a dead one, into my body.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Will you be giving up breathing, eating and drinking soon too?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Everyone does, eventually.  Allegedly.
>>>> 
>>>> Hopefully not *soon*.
>>>> 
>>>> I had polio when I was a kid before polio vaccine was available.
>>>> If people had the same attitude to vaccination as Judith and a few Dutch
>>>> religious nutters, people would still be catching polio.
>>>> --
>>> And smallpox!
>>> AIUI, "vaccinate" is a word specifically for smallpox.  "Inoculate" is for
>>> all the other diseases.  Funny how language developes.
>>> Graham
>> 
>> I wonder if that's because the original smallpox vaccine came from
>> cowpox inoculations.  Isn't the Latin for 'cow' vacca, or something
>> similar?
> 
> It's "inent" in Dutch dunno why though.

Which is 'inent'?  Cow or vaccination?
-- 
Sacha

On 2009-10-26 17:39:23 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:

> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:31:58 +0000, Sacha  wrote:
> 
>> On 2009-10-26 17:05:07 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:23:46 +0000, Sacha  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2009-10-26 13:34:18 +0000, "graham"  said:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ca8be5d4pmu265990okb7gqs1sqtg66g8s@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2009 12:53:22 GMT,  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I do.  My reasons are probably not valid.  When I worked in a
>>>>>>>>> hospital, we were offered the routine flu vaccine every year.  I
>>>>>>>>> refused to have it and I did have pressure put on me which I resisted.
>>>>>>>>> I was told that I had to protect the patients etc.  I have deep set
>>>>>>>>> fears which may be totally irrational but I won't put a virus, albeit
>>>>>>>>> a dead one, into my body.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Will you be giving up breathing, eating and drinking soon too?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Everyone does, eventually.  Allegedly.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hopefully not *soon*.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I had polio when I was a kid before polio vaccine was available.
>>>>>> If people had the same attitude to vaccination as Judith and a few Dutch
>>>>>> religious nutters, people would still be catching polio.
>>>>>> --
>>>>> And smallpox!
>>>>> AIUI, "vaccinate" is a word specifically for smallpox.  "Inoculate" is for
>>>>> all the other diseases.  Funny how language developes.
>>>>> Graham
>>>> 
>>>> I wonder if that's because the original smallpox vaccine came from
>>>> cowpox inoculations.  Isn't the Latin for 'cow' vacca, or something
>>>> similar?
>>> 
>>> It's "inent" in Dutch dunno why though.
>> 
>> Which is 'inent'?  Cow or vaccination?
> 
> All of them, except moo moos en koeien :o)

Well, if you can't tell a cow from a hypodermic I'm certainly not 
getting injections in Holland!
-- 
Sacha

"Sacha"  wrote in message 
news:7km82cF3aenmoU3@mid.individual.net...
> On 2009-10-26 17:39:23 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:31:58 +0000, Sacha  wrote:
>>
>>> On 2009-10-26 17:05:07 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:23:46 +0000, Sacha  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2009-10-26 13:34:18 +0000, "graham"  said:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ca8be5d4pmu265990okb7gqs1sqtg66g8s@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2009 12:53:22 GMT,  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I do.  My reasons are probably not valid.  When I worked in 
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> hospital, we were offered the routine flu vaccine every year.  I
>>>>>>>>>> refused to have it and I did have pressure put on me which I 
>>>>>>>>>> resisted.
>>>>>>>>>> I was told that I had to protect the patients etc.  I have deep 
>>>>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>>>>> fears which may be totally irrational but I won't put a virus, 
>>>>>>>>>> albeit
>>>>>>>>>> a dead one, into my body.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Will you be giving up breathing, eating and drinking soon too?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Everyone does, eventually.  Allegedly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hopefully not *soon*.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had polio when I was a kid before polio vaccine was available.
>>>>>>> If people had the same attitude to vaccination as Judith and a few 
>>>>>>> Dutch
>>>>>>> religious nutters, people would still be catching polio.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>> And smallpox!
>>>>>> AIUI, "vaccinate" is a word specifically for smallpox.  "Inoculate" 
>>>>>> is for
>>>>>> all the other diseases.  Funny how language developes.
>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if that's because the original smallpox vaccine came from
>>>>> cowpox inoculations.  Isn't the Latin for 'cow' vacca, or something
>>>>> similar?
>>>>
>>>> It's "inent" in Dutch dunno why though.
>>>
>>> Which is 'inent'?  Cow or vaccination?
>>
>> All of them, except moo moos en koeien :o)
>
> Well, if you can't tell a cow from a hypodermic I'm certainly not getting 
> injections in Holland!

lol

On 2009-10-26 21:36:26 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:

> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:28:28 +0000, Sacha  wrote:
> 
>> On 2009-10-26 17:39:23 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:31:58 +0000, Sacha  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2009-10-26 17:05:07 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:23:46 +0000, Sacha  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2009-10-26 13:34:18 +0000, "graham"  said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:ca8be5d4pmu265990okb7gqs1sqtg66g8s@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2009 12:53:22 GMT,  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I do.  My reasons are probably not valid.  When I worked in a
>>>>>>>>>>> hospital, we were offered the routine flu vaccine every year.  I
>>>>>>>>>>> refused to have it and I did have pressure put on me which I resisted.
>>>>>>>>>>> I was told that I had to protect the patients etc.  I have deep set
>>>>>>>>>>> fears which may be totally irrational but I won't put a virus, albeit
>>>>>>>>>>> a dead one, into my body.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Will you be giving up breathing, eating and drinking soon too?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Everyone does, eventually.  Allegedly.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hopefully not *soon*.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I had polio when I was a kid before polio vaccine was available.
>>>>>>>> If people had the same attitude to vaccination as Judith and a few Dutch
>>>>>>>> religious nutters, people would still be catching polio.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> And smallpox!
>>>>>>> AIUI, "vaccinate" is a word specifically for smallpox.  "Inoculate" is for
>>>>>>> all the other diseases.  Funny how language developes.
>>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I wonder if that's because the original smallpox vaccine came from
>>>>>> cowpox inoculations.  Isn't the Latin for 'cow' vacca, or something
>>>>>> similar?
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's "inent" in Dutch dunno why though.
>>>> 
>>>> Which is 'inent'?  Cow or vaccination?
>>> 
>>> All of them, except moo moos en koeien :o)
>> 
>> Well, if you can't tell a cow from a hypodermic I'm certainly not
>> getting injections in Holland!
> 
> All Creatures Great and Small comes to mind.

Yours, maybe.  It's not coming anywhere near me!
-- 
Sacha

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:48:49 +0100, Martin wrote in post :
<news:o3nee5hgf8r35vn29f87f84bqdk8vv8lae@4ax.com> :

> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:02:56 +0100, "Tim C."  wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:07:50 +0100, Christina Websell wrote in post :
>><news:7ke9p6F39eo31U1@mid.individual.net> :
>>
>>> Yet still the myth persists that a pressure cooker will blow up in our 
>>> kitchens.
>>> Why?
>>
>>Because they can make a lot of frightening noises to the uninitiated, I
>>think.
> 
> Cats can make frightening noises but they don't blow up unless they find
> themselves being used to make a bagpipe.

eewwww! 
-- 
Tim C.

On 2009-10-29 07:39:19 +0000, Jane Gillett  said:

> In article ,
>    Giusi  wrote:
> 
>> "CP"  ha scritto nel messaggio
> 
> 
>> http://www.profitableharm.com/Swine%20Flu%20Paper%20Janak.html
> 
>> That reads from word one as crackpot.  Bibliography?  Factual backup.
>> Quotation marks are not enough proof.
> 
>> What evidence shows that H1N1 is a product of biowarfare engineering?  Where
>> would they come by such evidence?  If it's true then we really DO need to
>> stop it.
>> Why would it be in the interests of countries strapped for cash by huge
>> financial crisis to invent a health crisis that they have to step up to
>> fight?  Is it just pure mean-minded cruelty practiced on the population for
>> fun?
>> So they tell me that death rates are not higher than rates for seasonal
>> flus, exceot that IT IS NOT YET FLU SEASON and we already have experienced a
>> normal deathrate from this flu.
> 
> No idea whether H1N1 is germ warfare - why should it be?
> 
> However, on the topic of flu, I've just been listening to a GP on Radio
> Devon complaining that with winter approaching, swine flu, vomiting
> infections and the normal higher winter hospital use a local hospital has
> just taken 7 beds out of use for a few months. For "deep cleaning". As
> somebody said, would deep cleaning be needed if the "normal cleaning" had
> been adequate and why do it at time of peak calls for beds? We've had the
> CHief Exec (I think) (non-medic) on the radio; I was unconvinced.
> 
> Cheers
> Jane

If it's any sort of comfort, Jane, one member of the family is ill and 
is going to have a visit at home today from our GP. They don't live 
here but a few minutes away.  But he says that swine flu cases are 
comparatively small in number down here *at the moment*.  However, this 
person has just been in London and has visited museums and galleries, 
so he's going for the cautious approach.
-- 
Sacha

On 2009-11-05 11:19:44 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:

> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:09:42 +0000 (GMT), Jane Gillett
>  wrote:
> <snip>I find
>> it hard to believe that a rundown of the NHS funding will convince me that
>> half a million spent carting a boatload of Arctic rocks around the SW coast
>> is better use of money than financing more hospital cleaning however other
>> money is spent. I agree that knowledge of NHS funds may tell me how much
>> <is> spent on cleaning; it will not, however, tell me how much <should be>
>> spent unless I have the technical knowledge to analyse exactly how much
>> that lack of cleaning will cost in dealing with the resulting infection
>> outbreaks.
> 
> If you had taken the advice given to you, by now you would know that Arctic
> rocks are not funded by the NHS budget. I'd say that you are getting 
> out of your
> depth.

Oh please!  That isn't what Jane said and it's really desperate even to 
suggest that she did.  Given that she is always polite and reasonable 
in the face of some quite insulting and patronising treatment, I'd say 
these responses suggest she's too close for comfort.
-- 
Sacha

On 2009-11-05 12:19:08 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:

> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:03:38 +0000, Sacha  wrote:
> 
>> On 2009-11-05 11:19:44 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:
>> 
>>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:09:42 +0000 (GMT), Jane Gillett
>>>  wrote:
>>> <snip>I find
>>>> it hard to believe that a rundown of the NHS funding will convince me that
>>>> half a million spent carting a boatload of Arctic rocks around the SW coast
>>>> is better use of money than financing more hospital cleaning however other
>>>> money is spent. I agree that knowledge of NHS funds may tell me how much
>>>> <is> spent on cleaning; it will not, however, tell me how much <should be>
>>>> spent unless I have the technical knowledge to analyse exactly how much
>>>> that lack of cleaning will cost in dealing with the resulting infection
>>>> outbreaks.
>>> 
>>> If you had taken the advice given to you, by now you would know that Arctic
>>> rocks are not funded by the NHS budget. I'd say that you are getting
>>> out of your
>>> depth.
>> 
>> Oh please!  That isn't what Jane said and it's really desperate even to
>> suggest that she did.
> 
> Janet told Jane everything Jane wants to know is available on the web and that
> Jane could participate in the activities of her local NHS trust AFAIR.

That's what I mean by patronising.  Jane is clearly a woman of 
intelligence who probably has at least as good a grasp of local 
politics as anywhere here and probably better, given that she lives in 
England and Janet doesn't.  Do you?
> 
>> Given that she is always polite and reasonable
>> in the face of some quite insulting and patronising treatment, I'd say
>> these responses suggest she's too close for comfort.
> 
> Count the number of times she has mentioned the Arctic rocks in this 
> discussion.
> 
> Do you find Arctic rocks relevant to a discussion on NHS funding or this group
> the place to ask for a detailed explanation in how government funding works?

I find the patronising-verging-on-insulting remarks, comments and 
answers to be unnecessary and inappropriate.  But not, given the 
sources, unusual.  As you are one of those extending this discussion, 
presumably you consider this to be a suitable place to do so.  If you 
don't, perhaps you had better say so and withdraw, lest you be 
considered hypocritical.
-- 
Sacha

On 2009-11-05 15:42:18 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:

> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:13:57 +0000, Sacha  wrote:
> 
>> On 2009-11-05 12:19:08 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:
>> 
>>> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:03:38 +0000, Sacha  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2009-11-05 11:19:44 +0000, Martin <me@address.invalid> said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:09:42 +0000 (GMT), Jane Gillett
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> <snip>I find
>>>>>> it hard to believe that a rundown of the NHS funding will convince me that
>>>>>> half a million spent carting a boatload of Arctic rocks around the SW coast
>>>>>> is better use of money than financing more hospital cleaning however other
>>>>>> money is spent. I agree that knowledge of NHS funds may tell me how much
>>>>>> <is> spent on cleaning; it will not, however, tell me how much <should be>
>>>>>> spent unless I have the technical knowledge to analyse exactly how much
>>>>>> that lack of cleaning will cost in dealing with the resulting infection
>>>>>> outbreaks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you had taken the advice given to you, by now you would know that Arctic
>>>>> rocks are not funded by the NHS budget. I'd say that you are getting
>>>>> out of your
>>>>> depth.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh please!  That isn't what Jane said and it's really desperate even to
>>>> suggest that she did.
>>> 
>>> Janet told Jane everything Jane wants to know is available on the web and that
>>> Jane could participate in the activities of her local NHS trust AFAIR.
>> 
>> That's what I mean by patronising.
> 
> I didn't see it as being patronising. I may have had differences with Janet in
> the past, but in this case I thought she gave good advice.

And Jane answered her and was taken up wrongly.
> 
>> Jane is clearly a woman of
>> intelligence who probably has at least as good a grasp of local
>> politics as anywhere here and probably better, given that she lives in
>> England and Janet doesn't.  Do you?
> 
> Do I what? I understand that British government ministries are each given
> budgets and that the NHS probably gets a lot more than most. I don't see any
> connection between "Arctic rocks" and the NHS. The NHS is not funded by the
> local authority.

That was not Jane's point, AIUI.
> 
>>> 
>>>> Given that she is always polite and reasonable
>>>> in the face of some quite insulting and patronising treatment, I'd say
>>>> these responses suggest she's too close for comfort.
>>> 
>>> Count the number of times she has mentioned the Arctic rocks in this
>>> discussion.
>>> 
>>> Do you find Arctic rocks relevant to a discussion on NHS funding or this group
>>> the place to ask for a detailed explanation in how government funding works?
>> 
>> I find the patronising-verging-on-insulting remarks, comments and
>> answers to be unnecessary and inappropriate.  But not, given the
>> sources, unusual.  As you are one of those extending this discussion,
>> presumably you consider this to be a suitable place to do so.  If you
>> don't, perhaps you had better say so and withdraw, lest you be
>> considered hypocritical.
> 
> I tried to bow out of this discussion several days ago. Maybe I was being
> patronising in suggesting that this wasn't the right group. It wasn't my
> intention.

How nice.

-- 
Sacha

On 2009-11-06 19:01:16 +0000, Janet Baraclough 
 said:

> The message 
> from Jane Gillett  contains these words:
> 
>> In article ,
>> Janet Baraclough  wrote:
>>> The message 
>>> from Jane Gillett  contains these words:
> 
>>> I agree that knowledge of NHS funds may tell me how much
>>>> <is> spent on cleaning; it will not, however, tell me how much
>>>> <should be>
>>>> spent unless I have the technical knowledge to analyse exactly how much
>>>> that lack of cleaning will cost in dealing with the resulting infection
>>>> outbreaks.
>>> 
>>> Obviously you haven't  bothered to look it up.  Devon PCT's
>>> allocation and management  of budget and beds, is  based upon exactly
>>> such calculations and risk analysis.
> 
>> I've <now> looked and not found any such allocation figures in sufficient
>> details to be able to identify individual <figures> for broad areas such as
>> cleaning (maybe I am not recognising the particular name used)
>  let alone
>> risk analyses; only major funding allocations - on the level of, eg,
>> "Dentistry", "pharmacy" - without headings to say what <is> spent or to be
>> spent on cleaning let alone the implications of spending less or more.
> 
>   Pity you so rudely dismissed the information offered earlier.

Much as you've invited such a response, nobody has been rude to you.
> 
>> Please can you give us some ref url(s) for these analyses.
> 
>   But you would have to read it for yourself, and you have shown
> yourself unwilling or unable.
> 
>   When  I provide information, I'm accused of being either a know-all or
> a know-nothing.
> 
>  Sacha claims you are an intelligent politically aware person , and that
> people who live in England must be better informed than
> I . You both  live in Devon so are ideally qualified.. Or, you could ask
> Judith lea, who has described herself as a senior NHS Manager.(before
> retirement)
> and  educated in googling.
> 
>    Good luck.
> 
>    Janet
> 
> 

IOW - no wish to debate, only to dominate and now left with nowhere to go.
-- 
Sacha

The message 
from Sacha  contains these words:


> IOW - no wish to debate, only to dominate and now left with nowhere to go.

   Perhaps you should have read the thread before wading in and making a
fool of yourself, again.
   I provided information which Jane declined to follow up.
   It's not me, who declined to look up or discuss facts;  or tried to
dominate the thread with crazed ranting.

   Now, why are you not encouraging Judith to tell  Jane all about NHS
management? Could it be, that someone 
has pretended to an expertise they don't possess? 

     Janet

On Nov 6, 11:47 pm, Janet Baraclough 
wrote:
> The message 
> from Sacha  contains these words:
>
> > IOW - no wish to debate, only to dominate and now left with nowhere to go.
>
>    Perhaps you should have read the thread before wading in and making a
> fool of yourself, again.
>    I provided information which Jane declined to follow up.
>    It's not me, who declined to look up or discuss facts;  or tried to
> dominate the thread with crazed ranting.
>
>    Now, why are you not encouraging Judith to tell  Jane all about NHS
> management? Could it be, that someone
> has pretended to an expertise they don't possess?
>
>      Janet

I think your attempts to cause trouble here will not be appreciated, I
would go to bed if I were you, you may feel a bit better in the
morning.

>>
>>    Now, why are you not encouraging Judith to tell  Jane all about NHS
>> management? Could it be, that someone
>> has pretended to an expertise they don't possess?
>>
>>      Janet
> 
> I think your attempts to cause trouble here will not be appreciated, I
> would go to bed if I were you, you may feel a bit better in the
> morning.

I wasn't too happy about you causing trouble by lying about tampered 
posts, not once but several times. That you were so ashamed of your own 
words that you felt the need to suggest they had been tempered with is 
adding insult to injury.
It was only too obvious that your attempts  at a little muck spreading, 
were not appreciated and you were told so in no uncertain terms.

Bobbie

On Nov 7, 9:39 am, Bobbie  wrote:
> >>    Now, why are you not encouraging Judith to tell  Jane all about NHS
> >> management? Could it be, that someone
> >> has pretended to an expertise they don't possess?
>
> >>      Janet
>
> > I think your attempts to cause trouble here will not be appreciated, I
> > would go to bed if I were you, you may feel a bit better in the
> > morning.
>
> I wasn't too happy about you causing trouble by lying about tampered
> posts, not once but several times. That you were so ashamed of your own
> words that you felt the need to suggest they had been tempered with is
> adding insult to injury.
> It was only too obvious that your attempts  at a little muck spreading,
> were not appreciated and you were told so in no uncertain terms.
>
> Bobbie

Bobbie it is pretty obvious what you and your friend Janet Baraclough
are up to, no further replies will be made to you or Janet as I
consider both of you to be not well to behave like this.

Judith in France wrote:
> On Nov 7, 9:39 am, Bobbie  wrote:
>>>>    Now, why are you not encouraging Judith to tell  Jane all about NHS
>>>> management? Could it be, that someone
>>>> has pretended to an expertise they don't possess?
>>>>      Janet
>>> I think your attempts to cause trouble here will not be appreciated, I
>>> would go to bed if I were you, you may feel a bit better in the
>>> morning.
>> I wasn't too happy about you causing trouble by lying about tampered
>> posts, not once but several times. That you were so ashamed of your own
>> words that you felt the need to suggest they had been tempered with is
>> adding insult to injury.
>> It was only too obvious that your attempts  at a little muck spreading,
>> were not appreciated and you were told so in no uncertain terms.
>>
>> Bobbie
> 
> Bobbie it is pretty obvious what you and your friend Janet Baraclough
> are up to, no further replies will be made to you or Janet as I
> consider both of you to be not well to behave like this.

WYWST
-- 
http://thingamabobs.co.uk/imagesofcanfordheath7.html

The message

from Judith in France  contains these words:


> I think your attempts to cause trouble here will not be appreciated

    I give other group members credit for being able to  recognise who
does that.

   The longterm  regulars here will remember that you've been caught
before on ukfdm,  lying  through your teeth to discredit
 other posters here and trying to split the group. 

   Janet.

In article ,
   Sacha  wrote:
> On 2009-11-06 19:01:16 +0000, Janet Baraclough 
>  said:

> > The message 
> > from Jane Gillett  contains these words:
> > 
> >> In article ,
> >> Janet Baraclough  wrote:
> >>> The message 
> >>> from Jane Gillett  contains these words:
> > 
> >>> I agree that knowledge of NHS funds may tell me how much
> >>>> <is> spent on cleaning; it will not, however, tell me how much
> >>>> <should be>
> >>>> spent unless I have the technical knowledge to analyse exactly how much
> >>>> that lack of cleaning will cost in dealing with the resulting infection
> >>>> outbreaks.
> >>> 
> >>> Obviously you haven't  bothered to look it up.  Devon PCT's
> >>> allocation and management  of budget and beds, is  based upon exactly
> >>> such calculations and risk analysis.
> > 
> >> I've <now> looked and not found any such allocation figures in sufficient
> >> details to be able to identify individual <figures> for broad areas such as
> >> cleaning (maybe I am not recognising the particular name used)
> >  let alone
> >> risk analyses; only major funding allocations - on the level of, eg,
> >> "Dentistry", "pharmacy" - without headings to say what <is> spent or to be
> >> spent on cleaning let alone the implications of spending less or more.
> > 
> >   Pity you so rudely dismissed the information offered earlier.

> Much as you've invited such a response, nobody has been rude to you.

Thankyou Sacha. I'm relieved that one person thinks I have not been rude as
rudeness is out of place and undesirable as it gets in the way of
understanding of a topic. 

If Janet does not want to answer my question it's a pity but we are all
entitled to ignore questions or advice.

 Sometimes websites are written in such a way that it is difficult for the
lay person to find their way around, paticularly when they are written for
a particular "professional" market and sometimes they are simply badly
written. For the reader, the requirements of everyday life and its 
responsibilities can mean that you do not have time to "plough your way
through" an area which does not "signpost" the particular info that you are
looking for, a description I would use for the websites I looked at. If I
had time to read them all I might find internal links which would take me
to the information in question but unfortunately the headings did not.

I usually consider it constructive to give a brief resume of what the
correspondent will find when I refer to a site, including a summary of a
summary of conclusions it gives in respect of the topic. I would have found
that helpful in this case.
> > 
> >> Please can you give us some ref url(s) for these analyses.
> > 
> >   But you would have to read it for yourself, and you have shown
> > yourself unwilling or unable.

Unwilling when they require more time,for searching for the info than I
have available within my normal life commitments, yes. Unable? I don't
know? I certainly was unable to find the information you said was there and
if it's a matter of being mentally unable to process it when I found it I
think that unlikely although obviously I would not have any
profession-specific expertise it may assume.
> > 
> >   When  I provide information, I'm accused of being either a know-all or
> > a know-nothing.

IMV it's not worth worrying about how people may label you; they can ignore
you if they choose. When they constructively disagree with my arguments I
consider and reply as constructively as I can. When I feel their response
is purely denegration of me as a person then I ignore that response as it
does not contribute anything to the discussion. Occasionally I make an
exception. However, that's just as I see it and you are entitled to see it
otherwise if you choose to although that would be a pity because  we lose
the contribution you can make in moving the discussion forward which is
presumably what we are here for.
> > 
> >  Sacha claims you are an intelligent politically aware person , and that
> > people who live in England must be better informed than
> > I . You both  live in Devon so are ideally qualified.. Or, you could ask
> > Judith lea, who has described herself as a senior NHS Manager.(before
> > retirement)
> > and  educated in googling.

Judith (L), if you are one of the readers of this group - one of our
"Judiths" - do you know where to find the anaysis Janet has described,
please? A url would be valuable.
> > 
> >    Good luck.

Thankyou.
Jane
> > 
> >    Janet
> > 
> > 

> IOW - no wish to debate, only to dominate and now left with nowhere to go.

-- 

Jane Gillett   :   j.gillett@higherstert.co.uk   :   Totnes, Devon.

"Jane Gillett"  wrote in message
news:50b66dcde4j.gillett@higherstert.co.uk...
> Thankyou Sacha. I'm relieved that one person thinks I have not been rude
> as
> rudeness is out of place and undesirable as it gets in the way of
> understanding of a topic.

Not just one person, Jane.  I have never seen you be rude to anyone!

On Nov 8, 8:43 am, "Ophelia"  wrote:
> "Jane Gillett"  wrote in message
>
> news:50b66dcde4j.gillett@higherstert.co.uk...
>
> > Thankyou Sacha. I'm relieved that one person thinks I have not been rude
> > as
> > rudeness is out of place and undesirable as it gets in the way of
> > understanding of a topic.
>
> Not just one person, Jane.  I have never seen you be rude to anyone!

Jane is one of those whose posts I always read.  At times we may not
have the same viewpoint but she puts her point across in a civilized
and reasoned manner, she does not resort to name calling, insult or
rudeness.

Judith

On Nov 7, 10:58 am, Jane Gillett  wrote:
> In article ,
>    Sacha  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 2009-11-06 19:01:16 퍍, Janet Baraclough
> >  said:
> > > The message 
> > > from Jane Gillett  contains these words:
>
> > >> In article ,
> > >> Janet Baraclough  wrote:
> > >>> The message 
> > >>> from Jane Gillett  contains these words:
>
> > >>> I agree that knowledge of NHS funds may tell me how much
> > >>>> <is> spent on cleaning; it will not, however, tell me how much
> > >>>> <should be>
> > >>>> spent unless I have the technical knowledge to analyse exactly how much
> > >>>> that lack of cleaning will cost in dealing with the resulting infection
> > >>>> outbreaks.
>
> > >>> Obviously you haven't  bothered to look it up.  Devon PCT's
> > >>> allocation and management  of budget and beds, is  based upon exactly
> > >>> such calculations and risk analysis.
>
> > >> I've <now> looked and not found any such allocation figures in sufficient
> > >> details to be able to identify individual <figures> for broad areas such as
> > >> cleaning (maybe I am not recognising the particular name used)
> > >  let alone
> > >> risk analyses; only major funding allocations - on the level of, eg,
> > >> "Dentistry", "pharmacy" - without headings to say what <is> spent or to be
> > >> spent on cleaning let alone the implications of spending less or more.
>
> > >   Pity you so rudely dismissed the information offered earlier.
> > Much as you've invited such a response, nobody has been rude to you.
>
> Thankyou Sacha. I'm relieved that one person thinks I have not been rude as
> rudeness is out of place and undesirable as it gets in the way of
> understanding of a topic.
>
> If Janet does not want to answer my question it's a pity but we are all
> entitled to ignore questions or advice.
>
>  Sometimes websites are written in such a way that it is difficult for the
> lay person to find their way around, paticularly when they are written for
> a particular "professional" market and sometimes they are simply badly
> written. For the reader, the requirements of everyday life and its
> responsibilities can mean that you do not have time to "plough your way
> through" an area which does not "signpost" the particular info that you are
> looking for, a description I would use for the websites I looked at. If I
> had time to read them all I might find internal links which would take me
> to the information in question but unfortunately the headings did not.
>
> I usually consider it constructive to give a brief resume of what the
> correspondent will find when I refer to a site, including a summary of a
> summary of conclusions it gives in respect of the topic. I would have found
> that helpful in this case.
>
>
>
> > >> Please can you give us some ref url(s) for these analyses.
>
> > >   But you would have to read it for yourself, and you have shown
> > > yourself unwilling or unable.
>
> Unwilling when they require more time,for searching for the info than I
> have available within my normal life commitments, yes. Unable? I don't
> know? I certainly was unable to find the information you said was there and
> if it's a matter of being mentally unable to process it when I found it I
> think that unlikely although obviously I would not have any
> profession-specific expertise it may assume.
>
>
>
> > >   When  I provide information, I'm accused of being either a know-all or
> > > a know-nothing.
>
> IMV it's not worth worrying about how people may label you; they can ignore
> you if they choose. When they constructively disagree with my arguments I
> consider and reply as constructively as I can. When I feel their response
> is purely denegration of me as a person then I ignore that response as it
> does not contribute anything to the discussion. Occasionally I make an
> exception. However, that's just as I see it and you are entitled to see it
> otherwise if you choose to although that would be a pity because  we lose
> the contribution you can make in moving the discussion forward which is
> presumably what we are here for.
>
>
>
> > >  Sacha claims you are an intelligent politically aware person , and that
> > > people who live in England must be better informed than
> > > I . You both  live in Devon so are ideally qualified.. Or, you could ask
> > > Judith lea, who has described herself as a senior NHS Manager.(before
> > > retirement)
> > > and  educated in googling.
>
> Judith (L), if you are one of the readers of this group - one of our
> "Judiths" - do you know where to find the anaysis Janet has described,
> please? A url would be valuable.
>
>
>
> > >    Good luck.
>
> Thankyou.
> Jane
>
>
>
> > >    Janet
>
> > IOW - no wish to debate, only to dominate and now left with nowhere to go.
>
> --
>
> Jane Gillett   :   j.gill...@higherstert.co.uk   :   Totnes, Devon.

I have been following the thread Jane, I am in agreement with you, I
cannot find any urls to support Janet's supposition.  I could send it
to a former colleague, also a Senior Manager but I wouldn't hold out
hope of a swift reply, the annual bug is sweeping through the hospital
affecting staff and patients alike.

Now if you would like a bit of info on how to make a salmon mousse, I
can give you that, I am a Cordon Bleu cook you know :-))

Seriously without publications to back up these figures, one just has
to file it for future reference.

Judith

On 2009-11-08 11:11:13 +0000, Judith in France 
 said:

> On Nov 8, 8:43 am, "Ophelia"  wrote:
>> "Jane Gillett"  wrote in message
>> 
>> news:50b66dcde4j.gillett@higherstert.co.uk...
>> 
>>> Thankyou Sacha. I'm relieved that one person thinks I have not been rud
> e
>>> as
>>> rudeness is out of place and undesirable as it gets in the way of
>>> understanding of a topic.
>> 
>> Not just one person, Jane.  I have never seen you be rude to anyone!
> 
> Jane is one of those whose posts I always read.  At times we may not
> have the same viewpoint but she puts her point across in a civilized
> and reasoned manner, she does not resort to name calling, insult or
> rudeness.
> 
> Judith

Or brow-beating and calling people 'stupid' who happen to hold a 
different pov.  This is a newsgroup, not an interrogation chamber.
-- 
Sacha

The message

from Judith in France  contains these words:


> I have been following the thread Jane, 
> Seriously without publications to back up these figures, 

   The only figures mentioned, were supplied by Jane. I posted links to
a number of statements by Devon PCT explaining
where and how the money was used and their policy on the topic she raised. 
 
   I  also referred her to  the online records of  Devon PCT where their
entire budget is available.
 Jane  replied she did not need to see NHS budgets  to understand  the 
issue .

    Had you  read or comprehended the thread you would know that. 

You would also, have seen Martin's  responses to Jane and Sacha. 

   
   
    Janet

The message 
from Sacha  contains these words:

  This is a newsgroup, not an interrogation chamber.

   As Martin had already pointed out to Jane, though rather more
politely than you.
  

   Janet