On Oct 13, 7:35 pm, "Giusi"  wrote:
> "Judith in France"
>
> Did you get my email recipe?

No!!!!!  Please send it again.

Judith

This week, I am about to embark on making this pastry, as my wife, who 
has made it 99% of our married life, is getting too involved with 
Scouting and I am missing my pastry.  :-(

Would I be right in thinking that the water is only there to bind the 
pastry? What happens if there is too much/too little water in it?

Dave

The message 
from Dave  contains these words:

> This week, I am about to embark on making this pastry, as my wife, who 
> has made it 99% of our married life, is getting too involved with 
> Scouting and I am missing my pastry.  :-(

> Would I be right in thinking that the water is only there to bind the 
> pastry? 

  Yes

>What happens if there is too much/

  The pastry surface will be slightly shiny; it will feel  sticky, or
even, slimey. It will stick to your hands, the surface you roll it on,
and the rolling pin;
as you lift it onto the dish, cursing,  it will probably tear. Then when
it cooks it will shrink, probably spilling sticky pie juices all over
the oven floor, where they will burn on....

  > too little water in it?
 
   it won't bind enough to roll out easily. 

 Too dry is better than too wet, because you can always add a little water. 

   

   Janet

Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message 
> from Dave  contains these words:
> 
>> This week, I am about to embark on making this pastry, as my wife, who 
>> has made it 99% of our married life, is getting too involved with 
>> Scouting and I am missing my pastry.  :-(
> 
>> Would I be right in thinking that the water is only there to bind the 
>> pastry? 
> 
>   Yes
> 
>> What happens if there is too much/
> 
>   The pastry surface will be slightly shiny; it will feel  sticky, or
> even, slimey. It will stick to your hands, the surface you roll it on,
> and the rolling pin;
> as you lift it onto the dish, cursing,  it will probably tear. Then when
> it cooks it will shrink, probably spilling sticky pie juices all over
> the oven floor, where they will burn on....
> 
>   > too little water in it?
>  
>    it won't bind enough to roll out easily. 
> 
>  Too dry is better than too wet, because you can always add a little water. 
> 
>    
> 
>    Janet

Thanks Janet. Read, printed and noted. I do have an idea of what the 
pastry should feel like, but it has been a long time since I have made 
it, due to my warm hands.

Dave

"Dave"

it has been a long time since I have made
> it, due to my warm hands.

Quit touching it!  Use the food processor to mix the flour and fat, then 
stir the water in with a fork until it just clings together,  then turn out 
onto a cling film and wrap up to form a ball and chill in the fridge 30 
minutes before rolling out on a slightly floured surface.  I use a Silpat 
actually, which is the best.

In message , Giusi 
 writes
>
>"Dave"
>
>it has been a long time since I have made
>> it, due to my warm hands.
>
>Quit touching it!  Use the food processor to mix the flour and fat, then
>stir the water in with a fork until it just clings together,  then turn out
>onto a cling film and wrap up to form a ball and chill in the fridge 30
>minutes before rolling out on a slightly floured surface.  I use a Silpat
>actually, which is the best.
>
>
You have to be careful using a food processor, as it tends to become too 
short and unmanageable if you over-work it.
-- 
June Hughes

In article ,
   Giusi  wrote:

> "Dave"

> it has been a long time since I have made
> > it, due to my warm hands.

> Quit touching it!  Use the food processor to mix the flour and fat, then 
> stir the water in with a fork until it just clings together,  then turn out 
> onto a cling film and wrap up to form a ball and chill in the fridge 30 
> minutes before rolling out on a slightly floured surface.  I use a Silpat 
> actually, which is the best. 

I get the best results using a pastry blender to work the fat into the
flour. If you're not familiar with them, Dave, look them up on, say,
Amazon. You can get them quite cheaply in most reasonable ironmongers.

 Chop the fat roughly (1-2cm) in the sieved flour with a knife and then
keep pushing the blender down through it until you get the breadcrumb
consistency. You'll probably have to scrape fat off the blender "wires"
from time to time with a knife until the granules get smaller.

Good luck
Jane

-- 

Jane Gillett   :   j.gillett@higherstert.co.uk   :   Totnes, Devon.

Giusi wrote:
> "Dave"
> 
> it has been a long time since I have made
>> it, due to my warm hands.
> 
> Quit touching it!  Use the food processor to mix the flour and fat, then 
> stir the water in with a fork until it just clings together,  then turn out 
> onto a cling film and wrap up to form a ball and chill in the fridge 30 
> minutes before rolling out on a slightly floured surface.  I use a Silpat 
> actually, which is the best. 

That is my intended way of making it. But isn't there a way of 
continuing this by adding water and killing the processor when the mix 
initially 'balls' up?

Dave

June Hughes wrote:
> In message , Giusi 
>  writes
>>
>> "Dave"
>>
>> it has been a long time since I have made
>>> it, due to my warm hands.
>>
>> Quit touching it!  Use the food processor to mix the flour and fat, then
>> stir the water in with a fork until it just clings together,  then 
>> turn out
>> onto a cling film and wrap up to form a ball and chill in the fridge 30
>> minutes before rolling out on a slightly floured surface.  I use a Silpat
>> actually, which is the best.
>>
>>
> You have to be careful using a food processor, as it tends to become too 
> short and unmanageable if you over-work it.

Now that raises another question. What is too short?

Dave

Jane Gillett wrote:
> In article ,
>    Giusi  wrote:
> 
>> "Dave"
> 
>> it has been a long time since I have made
>>> it, due to my warm hands.
> 
>> Quit touching it!  Use the food processor to mix the flour and fat, then 
>> stir the water in with a fork until it just clings together,  then turn out 
>> onto a cling film and wrap up to form a ball and chill in the fridge 30 
>> minutes before rolling out on a slightly floured surface.  I use a Silpat 
>> actually, which is the best. 
> 
> I get the best results using a pastry blender to work the fat into the
> flour. If you're not familiar with them, Dave, look them up on, say,
> Amazon. You can get them quite cheaply in most reasonable ironmongers.
> 
>  Chop the fat roughly (1-2cm) in the sieved flour with a knife and then
> keep pushing the blender down through it until you get the breadcrumb
> consistency. You'll probably have to scrape fat off the blender "wires"
> from time to time with a knife until the granules get smaller.
> 
> Good luck

I have looked at those in the past, but some posters on here have 
converted me to a processor, mainly Guisi. I am quite keen to try that.

Dave

In message , Dave 
 writes
>June Hughes wrote:
>> In message , Giusi 
>> writes
>>>
>>> "Dave"
>>>
>>> it has been a long time since I have made
>>>> it, due to my warm hands.
>>>
>>> Quit touching it!  Use the food processor to mix the flour and fat, then
>>> stir the water in with a fork until it just clings together,  then 
>>>turn out
>>> onto a cling film and wrap up to form a ball and chill in the fridge 30
>>> minutes before rolling out on a slightly floured surface.  I use a Silpat
>>> actually, which is the best.
>>>
>>>
>> You have to be careful using a food processor, as it tends to become 
>>too  short and unmanageable if you over-work it.
>
>Now that raises another question. What is too short?
>
Won't roll out and crumbly.  ie unmanageable.
-- 
June Hughes

"Dave"  ha scritto nel messaggio
> Giusi wrote:
>> "Dave"
>>
>> it has been a long time since I have made
>>> it, due to my warm hands.
>>
>> Quit touching it!  Use the food processor to mix the flour and fat, then 
>>  >> stir the water in with a fork until it just clings together,  then 
>> turn out >> onto a cling film and wrap up to form a ball and chill in the 
>> fridge 30 >> minutes before rolling out on a slightly floured surface.  I 
>> use a Silpat >> actually, which is the best.
>
> That is my intended way of making it. But isn't there a way of  continuing 
> this by adding water and killing the processor when the mix  initially 
> 'balls' up?

Yes, but it is very easy to overdo the water, so since you are lately 
inexperienced, I recommend you add the water with a fork.  It's extremely 
easy to overwork in the FP.  The less you work it, the better it will be 
when cooked.

Giusi wrote:
> "Dave"  ha scritto nel messaggio
>> Giusi wrote:
>>> "Dave"
>>>
>>> it has been a long time since I have made
>>>> it, due to my warm hands.
>>> Quit touching it!  Use the food processor to mix the flour and fat, then 
>>>  >> stir the water in with a fork until it just clings together,  then 
>>> turn out >> onto a cling film and wrap up to form a ball and chill in the 
>>> fridge 30 >> minutes before rolling out on a slightly floured surface.  I 
>>> use a Silpat >> actually, which is the best.
>> That is my intended way of making it. But isn't there a way of  continuing 
>> this by adding water and killing the processor when the mix  initially 
>> 'balls' up?
> 
> Yes, but it is very easy to overdo the water, so since you are lately 
> inexperienced, I recommend you add the water with a fork.  It's extremely 
> easy to overwork in the FP.  The less you work it, the better it will be 
> when cooked. 

I had visions of trying to scoop up the water with a fork when I started 
to read this.   :-(

OK Giusi, I'll do it that way until a get the feel of it. It looks like 
it will be next week before I try making it now. I have had a lot of 
work repairing video tapes this week.

Thanks

Dave

Dave  wrote:
>>  Too dry is better than too wet, because you can always add a little water. 

Make it too wet and you can add a handful of flour, IME.

> Thanks Janet. Read, printed and noted. I do have an idea of what the 
> pastry should feel like, but it has been a long time since I have made 
> it, due to my warm hands.

Try keeping a bowl of iced water next to you and dunk your
hands in every now and then.  Good pastry making tends to
run in the family along with bad circulation.  :-)
(I now have a granite chopping board specifically to make
 pastry on,w hich is a shame, cos I don't make it nearly as
 much as I should!  But I did make relatively successful
 rough puff pastry for sausage rolls in the summer for the
 first time)

vicky@dinky.vm.bytemark.co.uk wrote:
> Dave  wrote:
>>>  Too dry is better than too wet, because you can always add a little water. 
> 
> Make it too wet and you can add a handful of flour, IME.
> 
>> Thanks Janet. Read, printed and noted. I do have an idea of what the 
>> pastry should feel like, but it has been a long time since I have made 
>> it, due to my warm hands.
> 
> Try keeping a bowl of iced water next to you and dunk your
> hands in every now and then.

Even then, my hands are too warm. I sometimes think that I am a woman's 
friend.

> Good pastry making tends to
> run in the family along with bad circulation.  :-)

Unfortunately, I always have warm hands.

> (I now have a granite chopping board specifically to make
>  pastry on,w hich is a shame, cos I don't make it nearly as
>  much as I should!  But I did make relatively successful
>  rough puff pastry for sausage rolls in the summer for the
>  first time)

Do you store it in a fridge cold place?
If you don't, it will be too warm to make pastry on.
>

Dave  wrote:
> Do you store it in a fridge cold place?
> If you don't, it will be too warm to make pastry on.

Hmm, I don't, but it seems to have improved my pastry being
kept at room temperature.  It's probably just better than 
what I had previously been using.  (which was probably just
a plasticky work surface!  So definitely colder to the touch
than that)

My nan used to have a really neat hollow glass rolling pin
which she filled up with ice, iirc.  I just about remember
when she used to make really nice pastry.  Unfortunately
old age seems to have robbed her of that particular talent.
(I don't remember when she used to have a pie shop, but
 apparently she did)

wrote in message 
news:7jsh2lF376nukU4@mid.individual.net...
> My nan used to have a really neat hollow glass rolling pin
> which she filled up with ice, iirc.  I just about remember
> when she used to make really nice pastry.  Unfortunately
> old age seems to have robbed her of that particular talent.
> (I don't remember when she used to have a pie shop, but
> apparently she did)

What lovely history:)  Did she tell you all about it?

BTW you can buy hollow rolling pins now:)  I saw some in Lakeland the other 
week.

In article ,
   Dave  wrote:
> Giusi wrote:
> > "Dave"  ha scritto nel messaggio
> >> Giusi wrote:
> >>> "Dave"
> >>>
> >>> it has been a long time since I have made
> >>>> it, due to my warm hands.
> >>> Quit touching it!  Use the food processor to mix the flour and fat, then 
> >>>  >> stir the water in with a fork until it just clings together,  then 
> >>> turn out >> onto a cling film and wrap up to form a ball and chill in the 
> >>> fridge 30 >> minutes before rolling out on a slightly floured surface.  I 
> >>> use a Silpat >> actually, which is the best.
> >> That is my intended way of making it. But isn't there a way of  continuing 
> >> this by adding water and killing the processor when the mix  initially 
> >> 'balls' up?
> > 
> > Yes, but it is very easy to overdo the water, so since you are lately 
> > inexperienced, I recommend you add the water with a fork.  It's extremely 
> > easy to overwork in the FP.  The less you work it, the better it will be 
> > when cooked. 

> I had visions of trying to scoop up the water with a fork when I started 
> to read this.   :-(

> OK Giusi, I'll do it that way until a get the feel of it. It looks like 
> it will be next week before I try making it now. I have had a lot of 
> work repairing video tapes this week.

IME I actually get better results with the pastry blender; takes a little
longer than using the food processor but worth it for the result.

However, I do agree about not handling the pastry. I have warm hands like
you and I touch it very little:
. Blender then stir cold water in with a knife.
. Gather it together lightly with a knife, finishing by hand if necessary,
and put into the fridge to rest - about 15 mins, I guess - not critical.
. On to a floured surface (I just use the kitchen table), quick push by
hand into a round ball and roll out <once>. Pick the sheet of pastry up by
rolling it on to the rolling pin** to get more flour underneath if needed
and to transfer to the dish to be used.

Cheers
Jane

**Hold the rolling pin over one edge of the pastry. Lift that edge and hold
in contact with the rolling pin while you roll enough up to get it to grip
on to the pin; I find a little will be enough just to put flour underneath
while you'll probably need to roll most of it up to transfer it to a dish;
put it back down where you want it.

> Thanks

> Dave

-- 

Jane Gillett   :   j.gillett@higherstert.co.uk   :   Totnes, Devon.

Jane Gillett wrote:
> In article ,
>    Dave  wrote:
>> Giusi wrote:
>>> "Dave"  ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>> Giusi wrote:
>>>>> "Dave"
>>>>>
>>>>> it has been a long time since I have made
>>>>>> it, due to my warm hands.
>>>>> Quit touching it!  Use the food processor to mix the flour and fat, then 
>>>>>  >> stir the water in with a fork until it just clings together,  then 
>>>>> turn out >> onto a cling film and wrap up to form a ball and chill in the 
>>>>> fridge 30 >> minutes before rolling out on a slightly floured surface.  I 
>>>>> use a Silpat >> actually, which is the best.
>>>> That is my intended way of making it. But isn't there a way of  continuing 
>>>> this by adding water and killing the processor when the mix  initially 
>>>> 'balls' up?
>>> Yes, but it is very easy to overdo the water, so since you are lately 
>>> inexperienced, I recommend you add the water with a fork.  It's extremely 
>>> easy to overwork in the FP.  The less you work it, the better it will be 
>>> when cooked. 
> 
>> I had visions of trying to scoop up the water with a fork when I started 
>> to read this.   :-(
> 
>> OK Giusi, I'll do it that way until a get the feel of it. It looks like 
>> it will be next week before I try making it now. I have had a lot of 
>> work repairing video tapes this week.
> 
> IME I actually get better results with the pastry blender; takes a little
> longer than using the food processor but worth it for the result.

So I have to go back to the drawing board again  :-)

I'll try Giusis way first, if you don't mind, then your way, if I am not 
satisfied with the end product.

> However, I do agree about not handling the pastry. I have warm hands like
> you and I touch it very little:
> . Blender then stir cold water in with a knife.
> . Gather it together lightly with a knife, finishing by hand if necessary,
> and put into the fridge to rest - about 15 mins, I guess - not critical.
> . On to a floured surface (I just use the kitchen table)

We have a marble pastry board, but nowhere cold to keep it  :-(
It is too large for the small fridge we have.

> quick push by
> hand into a round ball and roll out <once>. Pick the sheet of pastry up by
> rolling it on to the rolling pin** to get more flour underneath if needed
> and to transfer to the dish to be used.

Yes, I have seen my mother and wife do that, it has just been the warm 
hands that have stopped me from making any pastry for the best part of 
nearly 40 years.


Thanks for all the help, I'll post on how I get on. Don't hold your 
breath, as I have an arm injury that has not gone away yet. It is still 
painful to even use the keyboard.


Dave

"Dave"

> We have a marble pastry board, but nowhere cold to keep it  :-(> It is too 
> large for the small fridge we have.

My work counters are marble.  They never go into the fridge but they are 
still always cold enough for pastry!  I believe it is ordinarily warmer here 
than waaay up there!