Hi:

I am looking for a tandoor clay oven that can be fueled by bituminous 
coals. I've looked at many shops on and off the net. I've not been able 
to find one that I'm sure is safe to use bituminous coals on. Some use 
charcoal but I don't know if its safe to use bituminous coals on these oven.

I feel gas and charcoal are too bland. They don't give the flavor I 
like. To my nose and taste buds, nothing is more pleasant than garlic 
naan cooked in a clay oven fueled by bituminous coals. The earthy aroma 
of the clay combined with that of the bituminous coal really gets me 
appetite going.

Also, what type of heat is mostly used in clay oven to cook food -- 
radiant, conductive, or convective?


Thanks,

Radium


P.S. I dream of eating some heavily-buttered garlic naan cooked in the 
above manner with some equally-delicious butter [makhni] tandoor chicken 
curry sauce.

>Also, what type of heat is mostly used in clay oven to cook food -- 
>radiant, conductive, or convective?

I've seen one in a local restaurant; because it's like a converted chip 
shop and I can see into the "kitchen" ...

a pool of red-hot charcoal sits at the bottom of an "oven" shaped like 
an amphora ... about 1 - 1.5M deep

food is skewered and lowered in, so the heat is *radiant* ...

naan bread is slapped on the upper walls directly ...


?is that helping?
-- 
Rex M F Smith

Rex  wrote  on Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:00:43 +0100:

>> Also, what type of heat is mostly used in clay oven to cook
>> food -- radiant, conductive, or convective?

> I've seen one in a local restaurant; because it's like a
> converted chip shop and I can see into the "kitchen" ...

> a pool of red-hot charcoal sits at the bottom of an "oven"
> shaped like an amphora ... about 1 - 1.5M deep

> food is skewered and lowered in, so the heat is *radiant* ...

> naan bread is slapped on the upper walls directly ...

> ?is that helping?

A Google Image search will probably bring up some pictures of the 
method. There are even modernized versions using gas eg., 
www.woodstonehome.com

I've never actually seen the cooking carried out and I have always 
wondered about how the charcoal at the bottom of the pot was lit or 
replenished.

-- 

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Green Xenon [Radium]"  wrote in message 
news:4859d3ad$0$7709$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Hi:
>
> I am looking for a tandoor clay oven that can be fueled by bituminous 
> coals. I've looked at many shops on and off the net. I've not been able to 
> find one that I'm sure is safe to use bituminous coals on. Some use 
> charcoal but I don't know if its safe to use bituminous coals on these 
> oven.
>
> I feel gas and charcoal are too bland. They don't give the flavor I like. 
> To my nose and taste buds, nothing is more pleasant than garlic naan 
> cooked in a clay oven fueled by bituminous coals. The earthy aroma of the 
> clay combined with that of the bituminous coal really gets me appetite 
> going.
>
> Also, what type of heat is mostly used in clay oven to cook food -- 
> radiant, conductive, or convective?

It seems to be a combination of radiant and convective.

I've seen electric tandor ovens in India that gave excellent results,  but 
they don't meet EC/UK electrical safety regs by a mile,  and I'm afraid that 
when I asked they said that they're not terribly interested in making them 
do so,  so I doubt they'll be available in the shops anywhere.

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Green Xenon [Radium] wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> I am looking for a tandoor clay oven that can be fueled by bituminous 
> coals. I've looked at many shops on and off the net. I've not been able 
> to find one that I'm sure is safe to use bituminous coals on. Some use 
> charcoal but I don't know if its safe to use bituminous coals on these 
> oven.
> 
> I feel gas and charcoal are too bland. They don't give the flavor I 
> like. To my nose and taste buds, nothing is more pleasant than garlic 
> naan cooked in a clay oven fueled by bituminous coals. The earthy aroma 
> of the clay combined with that of the bituminous coal really gets me 
> appetite going.
> 
> Also, what type of heat is mostly used in clay oven to cook food -- 
> radiant, conductive, or convective?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Radium
> 
> 
> P.S. I dream of eating some heavily-buttered garlic naan cooked in the 
> above manner with some equally-delicious butter [makhni] tandoor chicken 
> curry sauce.

There are many grades of bituminous coal. Some are more noxious than 
others. All produce coal tar in the smoke, "known to cause cancer". If 
you must cook over open coal flame, use anthracite.

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

In message <g3do5m$844$1@registered.motzarella.org>, James Silverton
 writes

>I've never actually seen the cooking carried out
        I have ...

>I have always wondered about how the charcoal at the bottom of the pot
>was lit or replenished.
        Well, replenished ... they rake it out with a long metal tool

        Never seen one being *lit* ... have read elsewhere that once in
use you keep them going or they may split ...


        If I'm over there (rarely eat out nowadays) ... I'll ask (and
order a kebab from the oven :-) )
-- 
Rex M F Smith

William  wrote  on Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:10:16 +0100:


> "Green Xenon [Radium]"  wrote in message
> news:4859d3ad$0$7709$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> Hi:
>>
>> I am looking for a tandoor clay oven that can be fueled by
>> bituminous coals. I've looked at many shops on and off the
>> net. I've not been able to find one that I'm sure is safe to use 
>> bituminous coals on. Some use charcoal but I don't know
>> if its safe to use bituminous coals on these oven.
>>
>> I feel gas and charcoal are too bland. They don't give the
>> flavor I like. To my nose and taste buds, nothing is more
>> pleasant than garlic naan cooked in a clay oven fueled by
>> bituminous coals. The earthy aroma of the clay combined with that of 
>> the bituminous coal really gets me appetite going.
>>
>> Also, what type of heat is mostly used in clay oven to cook
>> food -- radiant, conductive, or convective?

> It seems to be a combination of radiant and convective.

> I've seen electric tandor ovens in India that gave excellent
> results,  but they don't meet EC/UK electrical safety regs by a mile, 
> and I'm afraid that when I asked they said that
> they're not terribly interested in making them do so,  so I
> doubt they'll be available in the shops anywhere.

I've never actually seen one used for cooking but the Mexican Chiminea, 
e.g.,   www.dancingfire.com  , may achieve a similar result and you 
could probably use coal if you wanted but I'm not sure if I'd want to 
eat something cooked in coal smoke. I believe people used to make their 
own chimineas from local clay in old Mexico.

-- 

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:34:20 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
 wrote:

>Hi:
>
>I am looking for a tandoor clay oven that can be fueled by bituminous 
>coals. I've looked at many shops on and off the net. I've not been able 
>to find one that I'm sure is safe to use bituminous coals on. Some use 
>charcoal but I don't know if its safe to use bituminous coals on these oven.
>

If you Google industriously, you will find references to coal fired
stoves made from ceramic materials, being pushed in Africa and other
benighted spots.

My advice on the use of Coal, is 'DON'T'. I suspect that the resulting
flavour would be be filfthy - I tried peat bricks just the once.

Don't Go There.  Just rehabilitate your taste buds.

JonH

wrote:

>My advice on the use of Coal, is 'DON'T'. I suspect that the resulting
>flavour would be be filfthy - I tried peat bricks just the once.

>Don't Go There.  Just rehabilitate your taste buds.

There's a well-known pizza place in Manhattan called John's
that makes coal-fired pizza.  The flavor is not bad at all.
Historically lots of New York City bakeries and pizzerias used coal,
but it's pretty uncommon now.

Steve

Steve  wrote  on Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:20:00 +0000 (UTC):

>> My advice on the use of Coal, is 'DON'T'. I suspect that the
>> resulting flavour would be be filfthy - I tried peat bricks
>> just the once.

>> Don't Go There.  Just rehabilitate your taste buds.

> There's a well-known pizza place in Manhattan called John's
> that makes coal-fired pizza.  The flavor is not bad at all.
> Historically lots of New York City bakeries and pizzerias used
> coal, but it's pretty uncommon now.

There's no reason (apart from pollution considerations) not to heat an 
oven with coal. After all, many were less than half a century ago but 
the food was not exposed to the smoke.

-- 

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

James Silverton <not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not> wrote:

> Steve  wrote  on Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:20:00 +0000 (UTC):

>> There's a well-known pizza place in Manhattan called John's
>> that makes coal-fired pizza.  The flavor is not bad at all.
>> Historically lots of New York City bakeries and pizzerias used
>> coal, but it's pretty uncommon now.

>There's no reason (apart from pollution considerations) not to heat an 
>oven with coal. After all, many were less than half a century ago but 
>the food was not exposed to the smoke.

Well, the coal-fired pizza mentioned above definitely tastes
of coal smoke.

It probably has toxic substances in it, but so probably does wood smoke.

Steve

JonH@Underthewagon.net wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:34:20 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
>  wrote:
> 
>> Hi:
>>
>> I am looking for a tandoor clay oven that can be fueled by bituminous 
>> coals. I've looked at many shops on and off the net. I've not been able 
>> to find one that I'm sure is safe to use bituminous coals on. Some use 
>> charcoal but I don't know if its safe to use bituminous coals on these oven.
>>
> 
> If you Google industriously, you will find references to coal fired
> stoves made from ceramic materials, being pushed in Africa and other
> benighted spots.
> 
> My advice on the use of Coal, is 'DON'T'. I suspect that the resulting
> flavour would be be filfthy - I tried peat bricks just the once.
> 
> Don't Go There.  Just rehabilitate your taste buds.

Coke --especially coke made from anthracite-- works fairly well.

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Jerry Avins wrote:


> Green Xenon [Radium] wrote:
>> Hi:
>>
>> I am looking for a tandoor clay oven that can be fueled by bituminous 
>> coals. I've looked at many shops on and off the net. I've not been 
>> able to find one that I'm sure is safe to use bituminous coals on. 
>> Some use charcoal but I don't know if its safe to use bituminous coals 
>> on these oven.
>>
>> I feel gas and charcoal are too bland. They don't give the flavor I 
>> like. To my nose and taste buds, nothing is more pleasant than garlic 
>> naan cooked in a clay oven fueled by bituminous coals. The earthy 
>> aroma of the clay combined with that of the bituminous coal really 
>> gets me appetite going.
>>
>> Also, what type of heat is mostly used in clay oven to cook food -- 
>> radiant, conductive, or convective?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Radium
>>
>>
>> P.S. I dream of eating some heavily-buttered garlic naan cooked in the 
>> above manner with some equally-delicious butter [makhni] tandoor 
>> chicken curry sauce.


> 
> There are many grades of bituminous coal. Some are more noxious than 
> others. All produce coal tar in the smoke, "known to cause cancer". If 
> you must cook over open coal flame, use anthracite.


Bituminous coal has a stronger aroma than anthracite and from the 
responses I got from other posters, I doubt any open flame is used. 
Simply hot smoking coals to cook food.

Rex M F Smith wrote:
>> Also, what type of heat is mostly used in clay oven to cook food -- 
>> radiant, conductive, or convective?


> 
> I've seen one in a local restaurant; because it's like a converted chip 
> shop and I can see into the "kitchen" ...
> 
> a pool of red-hot charcoal sits at the bottom of an "oven" shaped like 
> an amphora ... about 1 - 1.5M deep
> 
> food is skewered and lowered in, so the heat is *radiant* ...
> 
> naan bread is slapped on the upper walls directly ...
> 
> 


About the coals. If the bituminous coals is heated in an environment 
with little/no oxygen, would the aroma be stronger? AFAIK, too much 
oxygen will oxidize the organic compounds of the bituminous coal and 
eliminate the coal's natural flavors.

Just curious.


> ?is that helping?


Yes.

Steve Pope wrote:
>  wrote:
> 
>> My advice on the use of Coal, is 'DON'T'. I suspect that the resulting
>> flavour would be be filfthy - I tried peat bricks just the once.
> 
>> Don't Go There.  Just rehabilitate your taste buds.
> 
> There's a well-known pizza place in Manhattan called John's
> that makes coal-fired pizza.  The flavor is not bad at all.
> Historically lots of New York City bakeries and pizzerias used coal,
> but it's pretty uncommon now.

Historically, New York used anthracite brought from the Pennsylvania 
coal fields by barge. The earlier route was across the Delaware on the 
Lackawaxen aqueduct bridge to the D&H Canal to Kingston and then down 
the Hudson River. Later, both a series of canals bypassing rapids on the 
Delaware to the D%R canal to Raritan Bay, and the Morris canal through 
Waterloo, NJ. Even after railroads superceded the canals, anthracite or 
hopper cars containing coal came by barge across the Hudson.

People also cook with dried dung, but it's done in covered vessels. I 
have cooked with a cross between peat and coal (can anyone tell me what 
it's called?) by encasing the joint of beef in clay first, then breaking 
the fired clay off when the cooking was finished. It was impossible to 
gauge doneness, and in my inexperience, I way overcooked it. Even so, it 
was still moist because of the encasement. "En croute" in spades!

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Green Xenon [Radium] wrote:
> Jerry Avins wrote:

   ...

>> There are many grades of bituminous coal. Some are more noxious than 
>> others. All produce coal tar in the smoke, "known to cause cancer". If 
>> you must cook over open coal flame, use anthracite.
> 
> 
> Bituminous coal has a stronger aroma than anthracite and from the 
> responses I got from other posters, I doubt any open flame is used. 
> Simply hot smoking coals to cook food.

Glowing coals are classified as open flame.

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

JonH@Underthewagon.net wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:34:20 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
>  wrote:
> 
>> Hi:
>>
>> I am looking for a tandoor clay oven that can be fueled by bituminous 
>> coals. I've looked at many shops on and off the net. I've not been able 
>> to find one that I'm sure is safe to use bituminous coals on. Some use 
>> charcoal but I don't know if its safe to use bituminous coals on these oven.
>>
> 
> If you Google industriously, you will find references to coal fired
> stoves made from ceramic materials, being pushed in Africa and other
> benighted spots.
> 
> My advice on the use of Coal, is 'DON'T'. I suspect that the resulting
> flavour would be be filfthy - I tried peat bricks just the once.
> 
> Don't Go There.  Just rehabilitate your taste buds.
> 
> JonH

There is a German mom & pop bakery in my little town in PA that has an 
anthracite coal fired oven they used for all of their baking. There is a 
another bakery in the next town over that does the same. They only make 
bread and rolls. Anthracite coal burns clean. There are pizza places in 
NYC that also have anthracite coal fired ovens.

George wrote:
> JonH@Underthewagon.net wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:34:20 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi:
>>>
>>> I am looking for a tandoor clay oven that can be fueled by bituminous 
>>> coals. I've looked at many shops on and off the net. I've not been 
>>> able to find one that I'm sure is safe to use bituminous coals on. 
>>> Some use charcoal but I don't know if its safe to use bituminous 
>>> coals on these oven.
>>>
>>
>> If you Google industriously, you will find references to coal fired
>> stoves made from ceramic materials, being pushed in Africa and other
>> benighted spots.
>>
>> My advice on the use of Coal, is 'DON'T'. I suspect that the resulting
>> flavour would be be filfthy - I tried peat bricks just the once.
>>
>> Don't Go There.  Just rehabilitate your taste buds.
>>
>> JonH
> 
> There is a German mom & pop bakery in my little town in PA that has an 
> anthracite coal fired oven they used for all of their baking. There is a 
> another bakery in the next town over that does the same. They only make 
> bread and rolls. Anthracite coal burns clean. There are pizza places in 
> NYC that also have anthracite coal fired ovens.

Yes, but the dingaling OP wants to use bituminous for more "flavor", and 
he won't be satisfied until he tries it. Wait till he tastes the burps!

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

In article <g3eias$8r7$1@registered.motzarella.org>, 
george@nospam.invalid says...
> JonH@Underthewagon.net wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:34:20 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
> >  wrote:
> > 
> >> Hi:
> >>
> >> I am looking for a tandoor clay oven that can be fueled by bituminous 
> >> coals. I've looked at many shops on and off the net. I've not been able 
> >> to find one that I'm sure is safe to use bituminous coals on. Some use 
> >> charcoal but I don't know if its safe to use bituminous coals on these oven.
> >>
> > 
> > If you Google industriously, you will find references to coal fired
> > stoves made from ceramic materials, being pushed in Africa and other
> > benighted spots.
> > 
> > My advice on the use of Coal, is 'DON'T'. I suspect that the resulting
> > flavour would be be filfthy - I tried peat bricks just the once.
> > 
> > Don't Go There.  Just rehabilitate your taste buds.
> > 
> > JonH
> 
> There is a German mom & pop bakery in my little town in PA that has an 
> anthracite coal fired oven they used for all of their baking. There is a 
> another bakery in the next town over that does the same. They only make 
> bread and rolls. Anthracite coal burns clean. There are pizza places in 
> NYC that also have anthracite coal fired ovens.

Interesting about anthracite. I do know that burning coal does realease 
a certain amount of radioactivity.