On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:06:02 +0100, "Gareth"
 wrote:

>
>
>"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message 
>news:6b6h04dv4og0399spuufltjdv64naikroq@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:26:35 +0100, "Gareth" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Has anyone successfully asked their local mainstream Indian restaurant to
>>>provide an authentic (? staff curry) take away?
>>
>> Yes. My local (Pakistani Kashmiri) restaurant usually has a staff
>> curry on offer. If you ask for the day's special, that's what you get.
>> It's interesting that most of the places around here will make an
>> effort to cook good food (and authentic if you want it that way) if
>> you're a regular customer, and obviously interested in their cuisine.
>
>What sort of food is it? Is it similar to the food that they cook as part of 
>their menu?

No. The meat is cut into fairly small chunks, and the curry is very
dry, and usually contains chopped fresh green chilli - easy to eat
with chapattis and no cutlery.

There are restaurants which serve the food this way as a matter of
course, though. The Akbars chain in Yorkshire is one, IME.

We were offered a choice of two dishes a couple of evenings ago -
chicken keema (which was as I've described above), and chicken on the
bone. I didn't try that one, but from experience it would certainly
have had a tasty sauce. In the past I've also sometimes had quail
curry from the same place - delicious.

-- 
Regards

Mike

mikedotroebuckatgmxdotnet

"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message 
news:fu8h14ltb7386j7kugufhf17cpjc8fteeg@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:06:02 +0100, "Gareth"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message
>>news:6b6h04dv4og0399spuufltjdv64naikroq@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:26:35 +0100, "Gareth" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Has anyone successfully asked their local mainstream Indian restaurant 
>>>>to
>>>>provide an authentic (? staff curry) take away?
>>>
>>> Yes. My local (Pakistani Kashmiri) restaurant usually has a staff
>>> curry on offer. If you ask for the day's special, that's what you get.
>>> It's interesting that most of the places around here will make an
>>> effort to cook good food (and authentic if you want it that way) if
>>> you're a regular customer, and obviously interested in their cuisine.
>>
>>What sort of food is it? Is it similar to the food that they cook as part 
>>of
>>their menu?
>
> No. The meat is cut into fairly small chunks, and the curry is very
> dry, and usually contains chopped fresh green chilli - easy to eat
> with chapattis and no cutlery.

This sounds really nice. Not too keen on the small cut chunks of meat but 
the rest of it sounds very attractive.

> There are restaurants which serve the food this way as a matter of
> course, though. The Akbars chain in Yorkshire is one, IME.

Yes, interesting. In the "South" there's no option like this - almost all of 
the Indian restaurants (Bangladeshi or for Indian owned) serve pretty much 
the same food. Even in Southall the options are oddly limited (compared to 
what can be enjoyed in the "North").

> We were offered a choice of two dishes a couple of evenings ago -
> chicken keema (which was as I've described above), and chicken on the
> bone. I didn't try that one, but from experience it would certainly
> have had a tasty sauce. In the past I've also sometimes had quail
> curry from the same place - delicious.

I wouldn't try quail - don't like the idea of farming quail and they're the 
most beautiful birds (like Ostriches far too impressive to eat; reminds me 
of that Little Britain overfed gastrapod sketch). To be honest the whole 
halal thing gives me the wotsits too.

Anyway, I would love to try a decent chicken on the bone restaurant meal - 
problem is, and I have to admit I've never hadt the courage to order one, 
the portions are apparently very small. When I make curry at home (Camelia 
Panjabi or simpler versions of her recipes) I almost always use chicken 
thigh. There's more than enough for today and a fair bit for tomorrow. Free 
range chicken thigh (from Asda or Tesco) is pretty cheap and even M&S 
"freedom" food chicken thigh is pretty cheap - not much more than the 
barbaric, hellish battery hen agony that is sold as the Asda/Tesco "value" 
range (or whatever they are calling their ranges now). The taste of the home 
made curry is amazing although, obviously, the sauce is *never* (even using 
boiled onions) up to the standard of a passable Bangladeshi restaurant or 
even close for that matter. But with a little trial and error (and a long 
simmering time) people are amazed by the quality of the result.

Having praised Indian restaurants I'm *very* frustrated by the standard fare 
shit that is served with little realisation of the British desire to sample 
authentic Indian or Pakistani or Bangladeshi food. In the central south of 
England it isn't possible (whatever anyone says - and I have tried and 
tried) to acquire authentic food for a reasonable price as a casual eat in 
or eat out customer. Crazy that some very talented chefs are competing to 
make the best British version lamb jalfreizi. Why no authentic curry?

On top of this the east European "enrichment" of the UK means that my local 
Indian now has Polish waiters and waitresses. I find this offensive. What 
happened to the established, tried and tested avenues for waiters and chefs 
from Bangladesh (and Pakistan and maybe occasionally India) to come to the 
UK to provide high quality food and service? Disgraceful  and shameful 
racist immigration policy.

Gareth.

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:29:24 +0100, "Gareth" 
wrote:

>
>"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message 
>news:fu8h14ltb7386j7kugufhf17cpjc8fteeg@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:06:02 +0100, "Gareth"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message
>>>news:6b6h04dv4og0399spuufltjdv64naikroq@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:26:35 +0100, "Gareth" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Has anyone successfully asked their local mainstream Indian restaurant 
>>>>>to
>>>>>provide an authentic (? staff curry) take away?
>>>>
>>>> Yes. My local (Pakistani Kashmiri) restaurant usually has a staff
>>>> curry on offer. If you ask for the day's special, that's what you get.
>>>> It's interesting that most of the places around here will make an
>>>> effort to cook good food (and authentic if you want it that way) if
>>>> you're a regular customer, and obviously interested in their cuisine.
>>>
>>>What sort of food is it? Is it similar to the food that they cook as part 
>>>of
>>>their menu?
>>
>> No. The meat is cut into fairly small chunks, and the curry is very
>> dry, and usually contains chopped fresh green chilli - easy to eat
>> with chapattis and no cutlery.
>
>This sounds really nice. Not too keen on the small cut chunks of meat but 
>the rest of it sounds very attractive.

Trust me, it's very nice. It was Chicken Masala last night - offered
to us before we even picked up a menu. This is what happens when
you're a regular and show interest in the food. This was a very dry
curry, and absolutely delicious.

>
>> There are restaurants which serve the food this way as a matter of
>> course, though. The Akbars chain in Yorkshire is one, IME.
>
>Yes, interesting. In the "South" there's no option like this - almost all of 
>the Indian restaurants (Bangladeshi or for Indian owned) serve pretty much 
>the same food. Even in Southall the options are oddly limited (compared to 
>what can be enjoyed in the "North").

I found the Brilliant in Southall to be a bit different from the
run-of-the-mill Bangladeshi places which are the norm outside this
area (West Yorkshire).

Have you eaten at the Lahore Kebab House, in Whitechapel? It's pretty
authentic Pakistani food.

>
>> We were offered a choice of two dishes a couple of evenings ago -
>> chicken keema (which was as I've described above), and chicken on the
>> bone. I didn't try that one, but from experience it would certainly
>> have had a tasty sauce. In the past I've also sometimes had quail
>> curry from the same place - delicious.
>
>I wouldn't try quail - don't like the idea of farming quail and they're the 
>most beautiful birds (like Ostriches far too impressive to eat; reminds me 
>of that Little Britain overfed gastrapod sketch). To be honest the whole 
>halal thing gives me the wotsits too.

Quail is a typical Pakistani and Bangladeshi dish, which I first
sampled in Brick Lane before it got so touristy. I have no qualms
about eating it. The halal thing is a requirement for practising
Muslims, as is kosher meat for Orthodox Jews. The supermarkets here
sell halal meat, but I think most of the Muslim population buys it
from Muslim butchers, of which there is at least one within walking
distance of where I'm typing this.

>
>Anyway, I would love to try a decent chicken on the bone restaurant meal - 
>problem is, and I have to admit I've never hadt the courage to order one, 
>the portions are apparently very small.

Many restaurants will offer to cook dishes which are not on the menu,
if you ask them perhaps they will cook it for you.

> When I make curry at home (Camelia 
>Panjabi or simpler versions of her recipes) I almost always use chicken 
>thigh. There's more than enough for today and a fair bit for tomorrow. Free 
>range chicken thigh (from Asda or Tesco) is pretty cheap and even M&S 
>"freedom" food chicken thigh is pretty cheap - not much more than the 
>barbaric, hellish battery hen agony that is sold as the Asda/Tesco "value" 
>range (or whatever they are calling their ranges now). The taste of the home 
>made curry is amazing although, obviously, the sauce is *never* (even using 
>boiled onions) up to the standard of a passable Bangladeshi restaurant or 
>even close for that matter. But with a little trial and error (and a long 
>simmering time) people are amazed by the quality of the result.

I agree about chicken thigh. I have the Camelia Panjabi book, but I
get most of my guidance these days from Vicky Bhogal, an English-born
Sikh lady who has taught me a very good method for creating an
authentic curry base. This involves deep-frying sliced onions,
covered, on a very low heat for ten minutes, before blending them and
adding them back to the pan with, first, the spices, and then the
(blended, tinned) tomatoes. I've produced the most authentic chicken
curry I've ever cooked using this method.

>
>Having praised Indian restaurants I'm *very* frustrated by the standard fare 
>shit that is served with little realisation of the British desire to sample 
>authentic Indian or Pakistani or Bangladeshi food. In the central south of 
>England it isn't possible (whatever anyone says - and I have tried and 
>tried) to acquire authentic food for a reasonable price as a casual eat in 
>or eat out customer. Crazy that some very talented chefs are competing to 
>make the best British version lamb jalfreizi. Why no authentic curry?

I sympathise, but I don't have that problem here :-)

>
>On top of this the east European "enrichment" of the UK means that my local 
>Indian now has Polish waiters and waitresses. I find this offensive. What 
>happened to the established, tried and tested avenues for waiters and chefs 
>from Bangladesh (and Pakistan and maybe occasionally India) to come to the 
>UK to provide high quality food and service? Disgraceful  and shameful 
>racist immigration policy.

The Eastern European countries are part of the EU; their citzens [1]
have a right of work and residence in all the other EU countries, as
do we. It was inevitable that the Commonwealth countries would be put
at a disadvantage in terms of immigration when we joined, all those
years ago.

We do have the British Asian population to look to for good food
though, so it isn't all bad news.

[1] Not Rumania and Bulgaria though, yet.
-- 
Regards

Mike

mikedotroebuckatgmxdotnet

"Gareth"  wrote in message 
news:4818ba84$0$32048$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...

> Even in Southall the options are oddly limited (compared to what can be 
> enjoyed in the "North").

I was in Southall a couple of days ago and was interested to see that the 
food was nearly all Punjabi with only a couple of 'South Indian' type places 
selling Dosas.

Got a decent cup of masala tea though,  for the first time outside India...

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message 
news:mehj14p1qqvn6mt5ob0r2qgdflo8fb70eh@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:29:24 +0100, "Gareth" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message
>>news:fu8h14ltb7386j7kugufhf17cpjc8fteeg@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:06:02 +0100, "Gareth"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message
>>>>news:6b6h04dv4og0399spuufltjdv64naikroq@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:26:35 +0100, "Gareth" 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Has anyone successfully asked their local mainstream Indian restaurant
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>provide an authentic (? staff curry) take away?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. My local (Pakistani Kashmiri) restaurant usually has a staff
>>>>> curry on offer. If you ask for the day's special, that's what you get.
>>>>> It's interesting that most of the places around here will make an
>>>>> effort to cook good food (and authentic if you want it that way) if
>>>>> you're a regular customer, and obviously interested in their cuisine.
>>>>
>>>>What sort of food is it? Is it similar to the food that they cook as 
>>>>part
>>>>of
>>>>their menu?
>>>
>>> No. The meat is cut into fairly small chunks, and the curry is very
>>> dry, and usually contains chopped fresh green chilli - easy to eat
>>> with chapattis and no cutlery.
>>
>>This sounds really nice. Not too keen on the small cut chunks of meat but
>>the rest of it sounds very attractive.
>
> Trust me, it's very nice. It was Chicken Masala last night - offered
> to us before we even picked up a menu. This is what happens when
> you're a regular and show interest in the food. This was a very dry
> curry, and absolutely delicious.

Stop it. Teasing people like that :-)

Seriously, I've found it to be very hit and miss in terms of the response to 
genuine interest. Some owners greet me by name and, I suspect, would be only 
too willing to allow me to sample authentic food (if I was brave enough to 
ask). But I had shocking service the other night during the opening night of 
a new restaurant - we had a table for two and the service was appalling: the 
waiters unashamedly prioritised tables of 4 or more and even offered 
complimentary drinks to tables of 4 or more. They've lost what would have 
been a bloody good customer in the form of myself - and they don't even 
realise it.

>>
>>> There are restaurants which serve the food this way as a matter of
>>> course, though. The Akbars chain in Yorkshire is one, IME.
>>
>>Yes, interesting. In the "South" there's no option like this - almost all 
>>of
>>the Indian restaurants (Bangladeshi or for Indian owned) serve pretty much
>>the same food. Even in Southall the options are oddly limited (compared to
>>what can be enjoyed in the "North").
>
> I found the Brilliant in Southall to be a bit different from the
> run-of-the-mill Bangladeshi places which are the norm outside this
> area (West Yorkshire).
>
> Have you eaten at the Lahore Kebab House, in Whitechapel? It's pretty
> authentic Pakistani food.

No, I haven't but I may give it a go. But I'm really looking for authentic 
Indian Indian food - Sikh and Hindu. Quite a few of the places in Southall 
I've tried (despite being Sikh or Hindu owned) still provide the same 
British Indian restaurant takeaway fare. I'm not criticising the standard 
fare - it's amazing food and by far my favourite food full stop (anyone who 
hasn't tried it is missing out big time) - but I would like to try authentic 
Indian food (south of the Indian Pakistani border).

>>
>>> We were offered a choice of two dishes a couple of evenings ago -
>>> chicken keema (which was as I've described above), and chicken on the
>>> bone. I didn't try that one, but from experience it would certainly
>>> have had a tasty sauce. In the past I've also sometimes had quail
>>> curry from the same place - delicious.
>>
>>I wouldn't try quail - don't like the idea of farming quail and they're 
>>the
>>most beautiful birds (like Ostriches far too impressive to eat; reminds me
>>of that Little Britain overfed gastrapod sketch). To be honest the whole
>>halal thing gives me the wotsits too.
>
> Quail is a typical Pakistani and Bangladeshi dish, which I first
> sampled in Brick Lane before it got so touristy. I have no qualms
> about eating it. The halal thing is a requirement for practising
> Muslims, as is kosher meat for Orthodox Jews. The supermarkets here
> sell halal meat, but I think most of the Muslim population buys it
> from Muslim butchers, of which there is at least one within walking
> distance of where I'm typing this.

Yes. I do have qualms about halal meat as well. Kosher meat is, it is 
claimed, prepared with more attention given to animal welfare (a fundamental 
requirement for complicated reasons of Kosher). But no, I wouldn't eat 
Kosher either - nor would I want to try anything other than lamb, chicken or 
beef (I have qualms about eating pork).

>>Anyway, I would love to try a decent chicken on the bone restaurant meal -
>>problem is, and I have to admit I've never had the courage to order one,
>>the portions are apparently very small.
>
> Many restaurants will offer to cook dishes which are not on the menu,
> if you ask them perhaps they will cook it for you.

You know I've been wanting to ask for such a thing for years but haven't had 
the courage. A filling on the bone chicken dish. Actually, now I think of 
it, I did once ask a very good takeaway manager of an incredible quality 
open kitchen takeaway (takeaway now closed) whether he could prepare a Quorn 
dish for a vegetarian friend: he told me to bring him the Quorn and watch 
him cook it. I never did but I wish I had.

>> When I make curry at home (Camelia
>>Panjabi or simpler versions of her recipes) I almost always use chicken
>>thigh. There's more than enough for today and a fair bit for tomorrow. 
>>Free
>>range chicken thigh (from Asda or Tesco) is pretty cheap and even M&S
>>"freedom" food chicken thigh is pretty cheap - not much more than the
>>barbaric, hellish battery hen agony that is sold as the Asda/Tesco "value"
>>range (or whatever they are calling their ranges now). The taste of the 
>>home
>>made curry is amazing although, obviously, the sauce is *never* (even 
>>using
>>boiled onions) up to the standard of a passable Bangladeshi restaurant or
>>even close for that matter. But with a little trial and error (and a long
>>simmering time) people are amazed by the quality of the result.
>
> I agree about chicken thigh. I have the Camelia Panjabi book, but I
> get most of my guidance these days from Vicky Bhogal, an English-born
> Sikh lady who has taught me a very good method for creating an
> authentic curry base. This involves deep-frying sliced onions,
> covered, on a very low heat for ten minutes, before blending them and
> adding them back to the pan with, first, the spices, and then the
> (blended, tinned) tomatoes. I've produced the most authentic chicken
> curry I've ever cooked using this method.

Oh right - just found her website. Looks interesting. The sauce recipe is 
very interesting. I had previously heard of the deep fried onion method (as 
opposed to boiled onion method) for producing authentic sauce. I may give 
this one a go.

>>Having praised Indian restaurants I'm *very* frustrated by the standard 
>>fare
>>shit that is served with little realisation of the British desire to 
>>sample
>>authentic Indian or Pakistani or Bangladeshi food. In the central south of
>>England it isn't possible (whatever anyone says - and I have tried and
>>tried) to acquire authentic food for a reasonable price as a casual eat in
>>or eat out customer. Crazy that some very talented chefs are competing to
>>make the best British version lamb jalfreizi. Why no authentic curry?
>
> I sympathise, but I don't have that problem here :-)

It's good to know, seriously, that the tradition where you are is self 
confident enough to provide authentic food as part of the mainstream menu. 
Here it is not :-(

>>On top of this the east European "enrichment" of the UK means that my 
>>local
>>Indian now has Polish waiters and waitresses. I find this offensive. What
>>happened to the established, tried and tested avenues for waiters and 
>>chefs
>>from Bangladesh (and Pakistan and maybe occasionally India) to come to the
>>UK to provide high quality food and service? Disgraceful  and shameful
>>racist immigration policy.
>
> The Eastern European countries are part of the EU; their citzens [1]
> have a right of work and residence in all the other EU countries, as
> do we. It was inevitable that the Commonwealth countries would be put
> at a disadvantage in terms of immigration when we joined, all those
> years ago.

Well, this is a point of view - but I don't agree with it. The EU labour 
migration is virtually all one way traffic (blame the UK education system 
and cultural norms which still don't take second language acquisition 
seriously). But more importantly why should migrant workers from India and 
Pakistan (staying in the UK for a short period of time) be disadvantaged by 
a racist policy which doesn't even acknowledge the obligation that the UK 
arguably has to certain countries for decades of exploitation?

> We do have the British Asian population to look to for good food
> though, so it isn't all bad news.

True. But it is far from clear that new generations want to mould their 
lives around the restaurant - law, medicine, accountancy, mechanics and 
estate agency are much more attractive.

> [1] Not Rumania and Bulgaria though, yet.

No. Another example of racist but apparently acceptable policy. The UK is 
changing and old assumptions about cultural mix and dominant culture are 
fast changing. But no UK government - including the Scottish Executive - 
wants to open the doors to Romany Gypsy travellers.

"William Black"  wrote in message 
news:fvir1b$1bd$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Gareth"  wrote in message 
> news:4818ba84$0$32048$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
>
>> Even in Southall the options are oddly limited (compared to what can be 
>> enjoyed in the "North").
>
> I was in Southall a couple of days ago and was interested to see that the 
> food was nearly all Punjabi with only a couple of 'South Indian' type 
> places selling Dosas.

Were these fast food joints as opposed to well rounded 
restaurants/takeaways? There are some very good vegetarian restaurants in 
Southall but the majority of non vegetarian restaurants sell mainstream 
British Indian food.

> Got a decent cup of masala tea though,  for the first time outside 
> India...

It should hardly be brain surgey but, yes, it is odd isn't it that such 
simple things are not more readily available in their authentic form. Same 
with lassi.

Gareth.

"Gareth"  wrote in message 
news:4821eb8c$0$10642$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
>
> "William Black"  wrote in message 
> news:fvir1b$1bd$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "Gareth"  wrote in message 
>> news:4818ba84$0$32048$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
>>
>>> Even in Southall the options are oddly limited (compared to what can be 
>>> enjoyed in the "North").
>>
>> I was in Southall a couple of days ago and was interested to see that the 
>> food was nearly all Punjabi with only a couple of 'South Indian' type 
>> places selling Dosas.
>
> Were these fast food joints as opposed to well rounded 
> restaurants/takeaways? There are some very good vegetarian restaurants in 
> Southall but the majority of non vegetarian restaurants sell mainstream 
> British Indian food.

The fast food places that pretty obviously serve the local working 
population.

>> Got a decent cup of masala tea though,  for the first time outside 
>> India...
>
> It should hardly be brain surgey but, yes, it is odd isn't it that such 
> simple things are not more readily available in their authentic form. Same 
> with lassi.

Well 'tea masala' isn't something I've ever seen on sale in the UK,  we 
bring ours back from India.

As for lassi,  my wife,  who is Indian,  makes it and I've never bought it 
'over the counter' in the UK.

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"William Black"  wrote in message 
news:fvssmq$3nu$2@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Gareth"  wrote in message 
> news:4821eb8c$0$10642$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
>>
>> "William Black"  wrote in message 
>> news:fvir1b$1bd$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>
>>> "Gareth"  wrote in message 
>>> news:4818ba84$0$32048$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
>>>
>>>> Even in Southall the options are oddly limited (compared to what can be 
>>>> enjoyed in the "North").
>>>
>>> I was in Southall a couple of days ago and was interested to see that 
>>> the food was nearly all Punjabi with only a couple of 'South Indian' 
>>> type places selling Dosas.
>>
>> Were these fast food joints as opposed to well rounded 
>> restaurants/takeaways? There are some very good vegetarian restaurants in 
>> Southall but the majority of non vegetarian restaurants sell mainstream 
>> British Indian food.
>
> The fast food places that pretty obviously serve the local working 
> population.

Thought so. They're okay for a quick bite but there isn't surprisingly much 
choice in terms of authentic restaurant or higher quality takeaway food.

>>> Got a decent cup of masala tea though,  for the first time outside 
>>> India...
>>
>> It should hardly be brain surgey but, yes, it is odd isn't it that such 
>> simple things are not more readily available in their authentic form. 
>> Same with lassi.
>
> Well 'tea masala' isn't something I've ever seen on sale in the UK,  we 
> bring ours back from India.

I've seen it - can't think where though (wasn't looking for it but I have 
seen it in the past month or so in, I'm sure, a number of general stores). 
This is really bugging - I have seen it but can't remember where. It was in 
a cigarette size packet (can't remember if it was plain white or green).

> As for lassi,  my wife,  who is Indian,  makes it and I've never bought it 
> 'over the counter' in the UK.

Oh well, you're no doubt spoilt then when it comes to authentic Indian food! 
A number of items are difficult to come by in the UK though - I've never 
found a source of black cardamom for example. The lassi can be okay but it 
isn't up to the standard of an authentic Indian or Sri Lankan lassi. Can't 
work out why with such basic ingredients.

Gareth.

"Gareth"  wrote in message 
news:48233e5c$0$2494$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
>
>
> "William Black"  wrote in message 
> news:fvssmq$3nu$2@registered.motzarella.org...

>> As for lassi,  my wife,  who is Indian,  makes it and I've never bought 
>> it 'over the counter' in the UK.
>
> Oh well, you're no doubt spoilt then when it comes to authentic Indian 
> food!

Oh yes :-)

> A number of items are difficult to come by in the UK though - I've never 
> found a source of black cardamom for example.

We've seen it in a warehouse belonging to a friend who sells the stuff in 
wholesale quantities in Bradford,  but never in the shops here.

There are fundamental problems with the quality of spices imported to the EC 
which relate to the spice cartel in India,  the way the Indian government 
licenses the export of spices and the EC's insanely strict regulations on 
the import of spices from the East.

While there is undoubtedly a market for high quality spices from India in 
the UK there seems to be no legal way of supplying that market that wouldn't 
require some sort of massive investment.

We find we have about 15 Kg of spices and dried chillies in our luggage 
every time we come back to the UK from India.

But things are undoubtedly getting better.

You can now get Indian 'kingfish' and even packs of Kashmiri chillies in the 
UK now,  although it's still cheaper to buy there and send them by courier. 
(not the fish,  the chillies)

The instant ' shake and bake' food they sell now is better as well, 
although we did try one of the instant 'behl puri' kits and it was 
dreadful...

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Fri, 9 May 2008 06:39:57 +0100, Rex M F Smith
 wrote:

>In message <48233e5c$0$2494$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>, Gareth 
> writes
>
>>I've never found a source of black cardamom
>
>http://www.twenga.co.uk/dir-Gastronomy,Spices-and-condiments,Cardamom
>
>Looking more expensive than I paid for mine; clearly I bought a fragile 
>packet (because I've decanted it into a recycled "Rajah" tin and 
>forgotten where I bought it :-(  )
>
>This is more like my price level!
>
>http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-TRS-Cardamom-Black-Moti-Elaichi.html
>
>I've *seen* this packaging; so might be available somewhere near Chrisp 
>Street, E14

If we're talking about the large brown cardamom pods which are
commonly known as black cardamom, my local sub post office sells them,
as do a myriad other Asian grocers in this region.

Expensive they are not.

-- 
Regards

Mike

mikedotroebuckatgmxdotnet

On Wed, 7 May 2008 18:46:25 +0100, "Gareth" 
wrote:

snip

>>>> No. The meat is cut into fairly small chunks, and the curry is very
>>>> dry, and usually contains chopped fresh green chilli - easy to eat
>>>> with chapattis and no cutlery.
>>>
>>>This sounds really nice. Not too keen on the small cut chunks of meat but
>>>the rest of it sounds very attractive.
>>
>> Trust me, it's very nice. It was Chicken Masala last night - offered
>> to us before we even picked up a menu. This is what happens when
>> you're a regular and show interest in the food. This was a very dry
>> curry, and absolutely delicious.
>
>Stop it. Teasing people like that :-)

<g>

>
>Seriously, I've found it to be very hit and miss in terms of the response to 
>genuine interest. Some owners greet me by name and, I suspect, would be only 
>too willing to allow me to sample authentic food (if I was brave enough to 
>ask). But I had shocking service the other night during the opening night of 
>a new restaurant - we had a table for two and the service was appalling: the 
>waiters unashamedly prioritised tables of 4 or more and even offered 
>complimentary drinks to tables of 4 or more. They've lost what would have 
>been a bloody good customer in the form of myself - and they don't even 
>realise it.

Under those circumstances, they would have lost my custom, too.

>>
>> Have you eaten at the Lahore Kebab House, in Whitechapel? It's pretty
>> authentic Pakistani food.
>
>No, I haven't but I may give it a go. But I'm really looking for authentic 
>Indian Indian food - Sikh and Hindu. Quite a few of the places in Southall 
>I've tried (despite being Sikh or Hindu owned) still provide the same 
>British Indian restaurant takeaway fare. I'm not criticising the standard 
>fare - it's amazing food and by far my favourite food full stop (anyone who 
>hasn't tried it is missing out big time) - but I would like to try authentic 
>Indian food (south of the Indian Pakistani border).

I can see your problem. I tried Southall for the same reason, but most
of the Punjabi food there is East African influenced. There are still
some interesting specialities though - curried cassava chips for one,
and the Brilliant also does Jeera Chicken and Butter Chicken, both of
which I am assured are absolutely authentic. Certainly I've never
eaten Jeera chicken like that anywhere else.

However, I think the real problem is that the Hindu population mostly
cooks at home. It really only seems to be the Muslims, and to a lesser
extent the Sikhs and Nepalese, who have the  drive to run businesses
like restaurants. 

>>>
>>>I wouldn't try quail - don't like the idea of farming quail and they're 
>>>the
>>>most beautiful birds (like Ostriches far too impressive to eat; reminds me
>>>of that Little Britain overfed gastrapod sketch). To be honest the whole
>>>halal thing gives me the wotsits too.
>>
>> Quail is a typical Pakistani and Bangladeshi dish, which I first
>> sampled in Brick Lane before it got so touristy. I have no qualms
>> about eating it. The halal thing is a requirement for practising
>> Muslims, as is kosher meat for Orthodox Jews. The supermarkets here
>> sell halal meat, but I think most of the Muslim population buys it
>> from Muslim butchers, of which there is at least one within walking
>> distance of where I'm typing this.
>
>Yes. I do have qualms about halal meat as well. Kosher meat is, it is 
>claimed, prepared with more attention given to animal welfare (a fundamental 
>requirement for complicated reasons of Kosher). But no, I wouldn't eat 
>Kosher either - nor would I want to try anything other than lamb, chicken or 
>beef (I have qualms about eating pork).

That's fair enough - each to his own.

snip

>
>>> When I make curry at home (Camelia
>>>Panjabi or simpler versions of her recipes) I almost always use chicken
>>>thigh. There's more than enough for today and a fair bit for tomorrow. 
>>>Free
>>>range chicken thigh (from Asda or Tesco) is pretty cheap and even M&S
>>>"freedom" food chicken thigh is pretty cheap - not much more than the
>>>barbaric, hellish battery hen agony that is sold as the Asda/Tesco "value"
>>>range (or whatever they are calling their ranges now). The taste of the 
>>>home
>>>made curry is amazing although, obviously, the sauce is *never* (even 
>>>using
>>>boiled onions) up to the standard of a passable Bangladeshi restaurant or
>>>even close for that matter. But with a little trial and error (and a long
>>>simmering time) people are amazed by the quality of the result.
>>
>> I agree about chicken thigh. I have the Camelia Panjabi book, but I
>> get most of my guidance these days from Vicky Bhogal, an English-born
>> Sikh lady who has taught me a very good method for creating an
>> authentic curry base. This involves deep-frying sliced onions,
>> covered, on a very low heat for ten minutes, before blending them and
>> adding them back to the pan with, first, the spices, and then the
>> (blended, tinned) tomatoes. I've produced the most authentic chicken
>> curry I've ever cooked using this method.
>
>Oh right - just found her website. Looks interesting. The sauce recipe is 
>very interesting. I had previously heard of the deep fried onion method (as 
>opposed to boiled onion method) for producing authentic sauce. I may give 
>this one a go.

By all means buy the books, but note that I'm not convinced all the
recipes are correct - some of them call for so much water that the
curry turns out like a thin watery soup. Use your own judgement here,
as I do.  It's the techniques and some of the Indian adaptations of
British dishes I like. The idea of stuffing spiced [1] scrambled egg
into a leftover chapatti for breakfast hit the mark, too!

>
>>>Having praised Indian restaurants I'm *very* frustrated by the standard 
>>>fare
>>>shit that is served with little realisation of the British desire to 
>>>sample
>>>authentic Indian or Pakistani or Bangladeshi food. In the central south of
>>>England it isn't possible (whatever anyone says - and I have tried and
>>>tried) to acquire authentic food for a reasonable price as a casual eat in
>>>or eat out customer. Crazy that some very talented chefs are competing to
>>>make the best British version lamb jalfreizi. Why no authentic curry?
>>
>> I sympathise, but I don't have that problem here :-)
>
>It's good to know, seriously, that the tradition where you are is self 
>confident enough to provide authentic food as part of the mainstream menu. 
>Here it is not :-(

Yes. The rule around here seems to be that if you ask for your food
"Asian-style", you will usually get the restaurant's standard curry,
with the additon of some chopped fresh green chilli. In my particular
local, they will ask us if we want the food "proper Asian-style". This
always results in the sort of dry authentic curry I have already
described in this thread. It's only when they come and tell us what
the dish of the day is when we walk in that I suspect we are being
offered the staff curry.

Three of us ate in there the other evening - all the dishes we ordered
were on the menu; they all appeared, after the magic question had been
asked of us, in the authentic dry style - and they were very nice
indeed.

>
>>>On top of this the east European "enrichment" of the UK means that my 
>>>local
>>>Indian now has Polish waiters and waitresses. I find this offensive. What
>>>happened to the established, tried and tested avenues for waiters and 
>>>chefs
>>>from Bangladesh (and Pakistan and maybe occasionally India) to come to the
>>>UK to provide high quality food and service? Disgraceful  and shameful
>>>racist immigration policy.
>>
>> The Eastern European countries are part of the EU; their citzens [1]
>> have a right of work and residence in all the other EU countries, as
>> do we. It was inevitable that the Commonwealth countries would be put
>> at a disadvantage in terms of immigration when we joined, all those
>> years ago.
>
>Well, this is a point of view - but I don't agree with it. The EU labour 
>migration is virtually all one way traffic (blame the UK education system 
>and cultural norms which still don't take second language acquisition 
>seriously).

Going a bit off topic here, but there are a lot of expatriate British
around the world, who speak other languages. I learned three foreign
languages at school here in England, and as a result lived on the
Continent for 25 years. If the work situation had been different, I'd
still be there.

> But more importantly why should migrant workers from India and 
>Pakistan (staying in the UK for a short period of time) be disadvantaged by 
>a racist policy which doesn't even acknowledge the obligation that the UK 
>arguably has to certain countries for decades of exploitation?

"Racist policy" seems a bit strong. It's an economic thing surely?

>
>> We do have the British Asian population to look to for good food
>> though, so it isn't all bad news.
>
>True. But it is far from clear that new generations want to mould their 
>lives around the restaurant - law, medicine, accountancy, mechanics and 
>estate agency are much more attractive.

They may be more attractive, but many of the local Pakistani
population here run other businesses - restaurants and takeaways
abound, there are an inordinate number of wooden furniture
manufactureres and salesrooms, and all the taxi companies are
Asian-run, without exception.

>
>> [1] Not Rumania and Bulgaria though, yet.
>
>No. Another example of racist but apparently acceptable policy. The UK is 
>changing and old assumptions about cultural mix and dominant culture are 
>fast changing. But no UK government - including the Scottish Executive - 
>wants to open the doors to Romany Gypsy travellers. 

I agree to some extent, but I don't think it's about Romanies. It's
about not letting lots of perceived criminals into the country, and
Rumania (along with Kosovo) has a bad international reputation in this
respect. I confess I don't fully understand why the Bulgarians have
been disadvantaged, but we're getting well off-topic here.


[1] Garam Masala, HP sauce and chopped coriander leaf!
-- 
Regards

Mike

mikedotroebuckatgmxdotnet

"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message 
news:5688245a0jk4brvim52u0mtc2larrtq148@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 7 May 2008 18:46:25 +0100, "Gareth" 


>> But more importantly why should migrant workers from India and
>>Pakistan (staying in the UK for a short period of time) be disadvantaged 
>>by
>>a racist policy which doesn't even acknowledge the obligation that the UK
>>arguably has to certain countries for decades of exploitation?
>
> "Racist policy" seems a bit strong. It's an economic thing surely?

The decision of the courts last year concerning the treatment of doctors 
with work permits, rather than being UK residents, decided that the policy 
was racist because the people concerned were mainly of South Asian origin.

This being the case the decision of the British government to exclude the 
kitchen porters from Bengal is certainly racist.

But it'll be  a year or two before someone drags them into court over the 
new 'points based' work permit system...


-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Fri, 9 May 2008 14:06:12 +0100, "William Black"
 wrote:

>
>"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message 
>news:5688245a0jk4brvim52u0mtc2larrtq148@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 7 May 2008 18:46:25 +0100, "Gareth" 
>
>
>>> But more importantly why should migrant workers from India and
>>>Pakistan (staying in the UK for a short period of time) be disadvantaged 
>>>by
>>>a racist policy which doesn't even acknowledge the obligation that the UK
>>>arguably has to certain countries for decades of exploitation?
>>
>> "Racist policy" seems a bit strong. It's an economic thing surely?
>
>The decision of the courts last year concerning the treatment of doctors 
>with work permits, rather than being UK residents, decided that the policy 
>was racist because the people concerned were mainly of South Asian origin.
>
>This being the case the decision of the British government to exclude the 
>kitchen porters from Bengal is certainly racist.
>
>But it'll be  a year or two before someone drags them into court over the 
>new 'points based' work permit system...

I wasn't aware of any of that, but surely it's a case of who has an
automatic *right* to live and work here, and who doesn't. EU residents
have that right, Commonwealth residents don't necessarily have it, but
the Government can decide to grant them residence. Indeed, the
original Asian immigrants were invited here by the Government - they
didn't have any automatic right of residence.

Once you get into a situation where millions of people have the right,
and millions of others do not have it, you have to assess how many the
country's infrastructure can support.

This is all well off topic for this group, though. Can we stick to
food please?



-- 
Regards

Mike

mikedotroebuckatgmxdotnet

"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message 
news:175924hlhc1l2sqo73nkvaprf4jklhmkfh@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 9 May 2008 14:06:12 +0100, "William Black"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mike Roebuck"  wrote in message
>>news:5688245a0jk4brvim52u0mtc2larrtq148@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 7 May 2008 18:46:25 +0100, "Gareth" 
>>
>>
>>>> But more importantly why should migrant workers from India and
>>>>Pakistan (staying in the UK for a short period of time) be disadvantaged
>>>>by
>>>>a racist policy which doesn't even acknowledge the obligation that the 
>>>>UK
>>>>arguably has to certain countries for decades of exploitation?
>>>
>>> "Racist policy" seems a bit strong. It's an economic thing surely?
>>
>>The decision of the courts last year concerning the treatment of doctors
>>with work permits, rather than being UK residents, decided that the policy
>>was racist because the people concerned were mainly of South Asian origin.
>>
>>This being the case the decision of the British government to exclude the
>>kitchen porters from Bengal is certainly racist.
>>
>>But it'll be  a year or two before someone drags them into court over the
>>new 'points based' work permit system...
>
> I wasn't aware of any of that, but surely it's a case of who has an
> automatic *right* to live and work here, and who doesn't. EU residents
> have that right, Commonwealth residents don't necessarily have it, but
> the Government can decide to grant them residence. Indeed, the
> original Asian immigrants were invited here by the Government - they
> didn't have any automatic right of residence.

Actually,  they did.

Until about 1962 all Commonwealth citizens had the right of residence in the 
UK.


-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.