Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who knows
the truth ...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4270908.e
ce

<quotes>

Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue

The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages from
the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some reports even
claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise the
payment of a ransom.

Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the operation had
in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians had paid
$20 million for their freedom.

The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high price, and
the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster said.

The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the hostages,
had been behind the deal.

French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's relatively
healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and haggard
look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested the
hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to health
before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew they
were to be released.

</quotes>

--
My bestest friend Jesse : http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz -

"The Happy Hippy"  wrote in message 
news:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who knows
> the truth ...
>
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4270908.e
> ce
>
> <quotes>
>
> Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages from
> the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some reports 
> even
> claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise the
> payment of a ransom.
>
> Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the operation 
> had
> in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians had 
> paid
> $20 million for their freedom.
>
> The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high price, 
> and
> the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster said.
>
> The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the 
> hostages,
> had been behind the deal.
>
> French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's relatively
> healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and haggard
> look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested the
> hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to health
> before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew they
> were to be released.
>
> </quotes>
>
> --
> My bestest friend Jesse : http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz -

Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the 
ultra-rights'?  Or could the real bullshit story be the one above?  As you 
say, hippy - who knows?

George

On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:
> "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>
>
> > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who knows
> > the truth ...
>
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
> > ce
>
> > <quotes>
>
> > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages from
> > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some reports
> > even
> > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise the
> > payment of a ransom.
>
> > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the operation
> > had
> > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians had
> > paid
> > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high price> > and
> > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster said.
>
> > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > hostages,
> > had been behind the deal.
>
> > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's relatively
> > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and haggard
> > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested the
> > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to health
> > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew they
> > were to be released.
>
> > </quotes>
>
> > --
> > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
> ultra-rights'?  Or could the real bullshit story be the one above?  As you
> say, hippy - who knows?
>
> George

How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
Columbia?  Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
short suicide mission!  Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
themselves would try and take it out!  For twenty million however, 2
helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
Helicopters, so no fire from there!  Again, has the FARC guerillas
ever used helicopters to get around?

"chatnoir"  wrote in message 
news:b73928cb-ba88-47b4-a560-5409d648d22a@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:
> "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in 
> messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>
>
> > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who 
> > knows
> > the truth ...
>
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
> > ce
>
> > <quotes>
>
> > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages 
> > from
> > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some reports
> > even
> > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise the
> > payment of a ransom.
>
> > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the operation
> > had
> > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians had
> > paid
> > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high price,
> > and
> > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster 
> > said.
>
> > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > hostages,
> > had been behind the deal.
>
> > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's relatively
> > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and 
> > haggard
> > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested the
> > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to health
> > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew 
> > they
> > were to be released.
>
> > </quotes>
>
> > --
> > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
> ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As you
> say, hippy - who knows?
>
> George

How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
Columbia?  Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
short suicide mission!  Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
themselves would try and take it out!  For twenty million however, 2
helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
Helicopters, so no fire from there!  Again, has the FARC guerillas
ever used helicopters to get around?

Since I'm no member of the FARC death squads, I couldn't tell you.  Perhaps 
you have some inside knowledge that the rest of us aren't privy to, eh?

George

On Jul 4, 9:44 pm, "George"  wrote:
> "chatnoir"  wrote in message
>
> news:b73928cb-ba88-47b4-a560-5409d648d22a@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:
>
>
>
> > "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in
> > messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> > > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who
> > > knows
> > > the truth ...
>
> > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42.> > > ce
>
> > > <quotes>
>
> > > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages
> > > from
> > > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some reports
> > > even
> > > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise the
> > > payment of a ransom.
>
> > > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> > > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the operation
> > > had
> > > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians had
> > > paid
> > > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high price,
> > > and
> > > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster
> > > said.
>
> > > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > > hostages,
> > > had been behind the deal.
>
> > > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's relatively
> > > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
> > > haggard
> > > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested the
> > > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to health
> > > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew
> > > they
> > > were to be released.
>
> > > </quotes>
>
> > > --
> > > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> > Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
> > ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As you
> > say, hippy - who knows?
>
> > George
>
> How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
> Columbia?  Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
> surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
> would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
> short suicide mission!  Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
> themselves would try and take it out!  For twenty million however, 2
> helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
> Helicopters, so no fire from there!  Again, has the FARC guerillas
> ever used helicopters to get around?
>
> Since I'm no member of the FARC death squads, I couldn't tell you.  Perhaps
> you have some inside knowledge that the rest of us aren't privy to, eh?
>
> George

Just from Vietnam!  You did not see the VC running around in
helicopters and the NVA jets did not stray too far from their
sanctuaries Near and in China!

On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:
> "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>
>
> > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who knows
> > the truth ...
>
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
> > ce
>
> > <quotes>
>
> > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages from
> > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some reports
> > even
> > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise the
> > payment of a ransom.
>
> > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the operation
> > had
> > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians had
> > paid
> > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high price> > and
> > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster said.
>
> > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > hostages,
> > had been behind the deal.
>
> > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's relatively
> > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and haggard
> > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested the
> > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to health
> > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew they
> > were to be released.
>
> > </quotes>
>
> > --
> > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
> ultra-rights'?  Or could the real bullshit story be the one above?  As you
> say, hippy - who knows?
>
> George

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/07/04/18513491.php


The Real "Operation" to Rescue Ingrid Betancourt and US Mercenaries
by Concerned citizens of irc.indymedia.org
Friday Jul 4th, 2008 9:12 PM
In order to understand the "rescue operation" of Ingrid Betancourt and
the Northrop Grumman Corporation mercenaries who were released with
her, it is necessary to piece together articles published in the
media, filter the content and out of this is formed a true
understanding of the facts of what happened here. A version in
Portuguese is available here.
The Real Operation to "Rescue" Ingrid Betancourt and US Mercenaries

Author: Concerned citizens of irc.indymedia.org

In order to understand the "rescue operation" of Ingrid Betancourt and
the Northrop Grumman Corporation mercenaries who were released with
her, it is necessary to piece together articles published in the
media, filter the content and out of this is formed a true
understanding of the facts of what happened here. A version in
Portuguese is available here.
On June 3rd, Colombian Senator Piedad Cordoba revealed that she
possessed information that the government of Colombia was negotiating
a deal with FARC to trade money for the release of Betancourt and the
mercenaries. The official policy of the United States is that they
don't "negotiate with terrorists," even as many leaders of Latin
American countries accuse President Uribe of supporting the AUC
paramilitary death squads and accuse the United States of providing
safe harbor to known terrorists such as Orlando Bosch and Luis Posada
Carriles.

Careful observers began to question the strange circumstances under
which the "dramatic rescue" of Ingrid Betancourt happened. Some guys
with Che Guevara t-shirts simply showed up and redirected them into
another helicopter? If it were that easy, why didn't they do that
years ago? The French media also found strange the fact that
Betancourt didn't resemble the gaunt and hungry images we have been
seeing in the media -- she seemed well-fed and healthy, as if she were
being prepared for release.

More confusion came when the capitalist media seized this opportunity
to hack up Betancourt's press conference, keeping in the parts that
glorified Uribe and the United States and excluding the parts that
talked about Venezuela's Hugo Chavez and Ecuador's Rafael Correa and
their important efforts in finding a diplomatic, peaceful solution to
the crisis. The press conference was broadcast in its entirety on the
Latin American news network, Telesur, but only bit and pieces were
shown on CNN, Fox News and other northern news channels. For instance,
excluded from the edited version is Betancourt's comments that she
felt used by the whole situation and that the operation put the lives
of the hostages at risk while a diplomatic solution, like the one
pursued by President Chavez, would ensure their safety.

The capitalist media, without any shame, immediately began to use the
situation to promote their own political objectives: everywhere in the
corporate media, Uribe was lauded as a hero, FARC's days are numbered
and Chavez's successful and peaceful diplomacy that freed other FARC-
held prisoners was downplayed.

However, on Friday, information began to be revealed that, in reality,
the government of Colombia had secretly paid $20 million USD to FARC
in exchange for the release of Betancourt and the US mercenaries,
confirming what Senator Cordoba had said a month before. This story
was broken by MediaPart in France and Radio Suisse Romande. MediaPart
also reported that France and Colombia guaranteed safe asylum for some
members of FARC as part of the deal.

Dominique Moisi, one of France's most prominent foreign policy
experts, said that it was "probable" that FARC was given money in
exchange for the prisoners. "They were bought in order to turn them
around, like Mafia chiefs," he said on French state television.

In light of all these events, the government of Ecuador has suspended
diplomatic relations with Colombia.

The report of the $20 million pay-off is now rapidly circulating
throughout the corporate media as it struggles with a way to spin this
news. The confusion caused by this bizarre operation makes a lot more
sense when viewed as a pre-arranged, money-for-prisoners exchange.
And, the true face of the Latin American right-wing is once again
exposed.

It is worth repeating that along with Betancourt, also released were
private military contractors from the United States who were captured
when their surveillance plane went down in FARC-controlled territory
during a Plan Colombia operation. Northrop Grumman, an aerospace and
arms manufacturing firm, was awarded a $60 million contract to provide
logistical support to the US and Colombian military, on the ground in
war zones there. Between 1990 and 2002, Northrop Grumman contributed
$8.5 million to federal campaigns. Coincidentally, at least "seven
former officials, consultants or shareholders of Northrop Grumman"
have held posts in the Bush administration, including Deputy Secretary
of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and Lewis Libby (who was convicted on
obstruction of justice, two counts of perjury and making false
statements to federal investigators for his role in illegally "outing"
CIA agent Valerie Plame). In addition, Plan Colombia has been
repeatedly criticized by international human rights organizations,
including Amnesty International and the United Nations, for
maintaining close relationships with right-wing death squads,
providing direct assistance to illegal right-wing terrorist
organizations as well as directly and indirectly participating in
massacres and atrocities. Many of the right-wing terrorists operating
in Colombia are former members of the Colombian military, like
paramilitary commander "Yair," who openly support Plan Colombia and
publicly offer their support to Plan Colombia operations.

Finally, it should be noted that the Colombian government under Uribe,
who has enjoyed widespread celebration by the corporate press in the
last few days, is routinely condemned as having one of the worst human
rights records of any country in the world. More than 60 members of
President Uribe's congressional coalition are under investigation for
election fraud or collaborating with right-wing groups classified as
"terrorist organizations" by the United States. Colombia is the most
dangerous country in the world for labor union organizers, with the
world's highest rate of assassinations and extra-judicial executions
of trade unionists. Since Plan Colombia began, the United States has
provided over $4.7 billion to the government of Colombia, described by
Senator Cordoba as a "democracy that governs through fear and terror."
Senator Cordoba, herself, was kidnapped by 12 heavily-armed government-
affiliated terrorists. Senator Cordoba says that the operations of
Plan Colombia are only partly used to fight the so-called "war on
drugs": "It's also used to silence those of us who speak out against
the government. They try to silence us by kidnapping, disappearing and
even killing many of us." Unlike many other Latin American countries,
who overthrew the brutal US-backed dictatorships which ruled the
continent during much of the 20th century, Colombia is an active
reminder of what life used to be like throughout all of South America
-- fiercely repressive dictatorships which terrorize the population
with money and weapons provided by the United States in exchange for
support of U.S. policies. How can a government like this receive the
kind of tributes and congratulations that have been showered on them
by the capitalist press in the last few days since they traded $20
million for the release of Ingrid Betancourt and U.S. mercenaries? How
can a supposedly free and democratic media uncritically praise a
government like this?
Today, Fidel Castro made one of the most sensible declarations about
this situation: the imprisonment of civilians is wrong but what is
worse is that the United States and the western, capitalist press are
exploiting this situation to obscure and justify the genocidal horrors
that they have imposed on Latin America for hundreds of years, up to
and including this very day.

Even now, the soldiers of Plan Colombia and their right-wing death
squads continue murdering union leaders in cold blood, continue
terrorizing the civilian population of Colombia, and continue
protecting terrorists who hunt down and kill anyone seeking social
justice in the region, a cause that threatens the profit and power of
the dominant, ruling class.

Even when the United States and their Latin American allies attempt to
create a spectacle of positive public relations for themselves, their
hands are so bloody and their crimes are so deep that, in the end,
their fabrications do little to change the reality on the ground. Like
all dictatorships in human history, their lies are so transparent,
their brutality is so brazen and their lifespan is so limited.

"chatnoir"  wrote in message 
news:fbad582d-c5ea-401e-8395-2bb5d980bcdf@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 4, 9:44 pm, "George"  wrote:
> "chatnoir"  wrote in message
>
> news:b73928cb-ba88-47b4-a560-5409d648d22a@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:
>
>
>
> > "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in
> > messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> > > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who
> > > knows
> > > the truth ...
>
> > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
> > > ce
>
> > > <quotes>
>
> > > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages
> > > from
> > > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some 
> > > reports
> > > even
> > > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise 
> > > the
> > > payment of a ransom.
>
> > > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> > > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the 
> > > operation
> > > had
> > > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians 
> > > had
> > > paid
> > > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high 
> > > price,
> > > and
> > > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster
> > > said.
>
> > > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > > hostages,
> > > had been behind the deal.
>
> > > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's 
> > > relatively
> > > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
> > > haggard
> > > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested 
> > > the
> > > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to 
> > > health
> > > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew
> > > they
> > > were to be released.
>
> > > </quotes>
>
> > > --
> > > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> > Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
> > ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As you
> > say, hippy - who knows?
>
> > George
>
> How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
> Columbia? Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
> surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
> would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
> short suicide mission! Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
> themselves would try and take it out! For twenty million however, 2
> helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
> Helicopters, so no fire from there! Again, has the FARC guerillas
> ever used helicopters to get around?
>
> Since I'm no member of the FARC death squads, I couldn't tell you. Perhaps
> you have some inside knowledge that the rest of us aren't privy to, eh?
>
> George

Just from Vietnam!  You did not see the VC running around in
helicopters and the NVA jets did not stray too far from their
sanctuaries Near and in China!

Are you suggesting that the FARC (which is financed rather lucratively by 
drug money) could not afford a helicopter?  Columbia is not Vietnam, dude.

George

"chatnoir"  wrote in message 
news:44950741-b00e-4b9a-83ed-852157783874@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:
> "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in 
> messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>
>
> > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who 
> > knows
> > the truth ...
>
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
> > ce
>
> > <quotes>
>
> > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages 
> > from
> > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some reports
> > even
> > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise the
> > payment of a ransom.
>
> > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the operation
> > had
> > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians had
> > paid
> > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high price,
> > and
> > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster 
> > said.
>
> > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > hostages,
> > had been behind the deal.
>
> > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's relatively
> > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and 
> > haggard
> > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested the
> > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to health
> > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew 
> > they
> > were to be released.
>
> > </quotes>
>
> > --
> > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
> ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As you
> say, hippy - who knows?
>
> George

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/07/04/18513491.php


The Real "Operation" to Rescue Ingrid Betancourt and US Mercenaries
by Concerned citizens of irc.indymedia.org
Friday Jul 4th, 2008 9:12 PM
In order to understand the "rescue operation" of Ingrid Betancourt and
the Northrop Grumman Corporation mercenaries who were released with
her, it is necessary to piece together articles published in the
media, filter the content and out of this is formed a true
understanding of the facts of what happened here.
===
Oh please!  This rag lost me when it began talking about the "capitalist 
media", and praised Castro like he was a god.  It is clear that the author 
(whoever that is, since we don't actually even know) is a paper lap dog for 
the rebels in Columbia.  The reality on the ground is that a bunch of people 
who were held hostage for many years by a Columbian narco terrorist group 
have been released, and the ultra-left is not pleased.  Nice try, but no 
cigar.

George

"chatnoir"  wrote ...

On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:
> "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in
messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>
>
> > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who
knows
> > the truth ...
>
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
> > ce
>
> > <quotes>
>
> > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages
from
> > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some reports
> > even
> > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise the
> > payment of a ransom.
>
> > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the operation
> > had
> > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians had
> > paid
> > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high price,
> > and
> > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster
said.
>
> > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > hostages,
> > had been behind the deal.
>
> > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's relatively
> > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
haggard
> > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested the
> > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to health
> > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew
they
> > were to be released.
>
> > </quotes>
>
> > --
> > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
> ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As you
> say, hippy - who knows?
>
> George

How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
Columbia?  Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
short suicide mission!  Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
themselves would try and take it out!  For twenty million however, 2
helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
Helicopters, so no fire from there!  Again, has the FARC guerillas
ever used helicopters to get around?

====

It does seem odd that FARC would be flying helicopters around with the
Columbians and Americans turning a blind eye and not routinely destroying
them. Let alone where they would be storing them or getting their fuel from.
The authorities seem to have predicted raised eyebrows at that so the claim
is that it was disguised as helicopter of an NGO known to be friendly to
FARC. That picked up the hostages, flew them to an exchange point where they
were then moved into a military helicopter.

Quite convenient that they don't have to name who this NGO is which is
allegedly helping FARC and the transfer means they don't have to produce it.

Why would the Columbians and the US be allowing a known rogue NGO to operate
in such a way ? They are quick to jump on charities and NGO's allegedly
helping 'the enemy' so why did they let this one continue operating,
especially as it must be a quite regular thing for FARC to have trusted such
an NGO. If they were operating regularly and are working with FARC then it
would be reasonable to assume they are moving FARC and weapons around, even
bringing in ramaments and supplies. Why would Columbia or US let that go on
?

If they let it go on for intelligence, then they must know an awful lot
about FARC operational bases, which begs the question why haven't they used
that information more effectively in the past ?

There's a lot of unaswered questions. "It's a con", covers most of them.

"The Happy Hippy"  wrote in message 
news:EKNbk.21250$E41.8463@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> "chatnoir"  wrote ...
>
> On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:
>> "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in
> messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who
> knows
>> > the truth ...
>>
>> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
>> > ce
>>
>> > <quotes>
>>
>> > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>>
>> > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages
> from
>> > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some reports
>> > even
>> > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise the
>> > payment of a ransom.
>>
>> > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
>> > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the operation
>> > had
>> > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians had
>> > paid
>> > $20 million for their freedom.
>>
>> > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
>> > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high 
>> > price,
>> > and
>> > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster
> said.
>>
>> > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
>> > hostages,
>> > had been behind the deal.
>>
>> > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's 
>> > relatively
>> > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
> haggard
>> > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested the
>> > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to health
>> > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew
> they
>> > were to be released.
>>
>> > </quotes>
>>
>> > --
>> > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>>
>> Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
>> ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As you
>> say, hippy - who knows?
>>
>> George
>
> How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
> Columbia?  Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
> surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
> would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
> short suicide mission!  Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
> themselves would try and take it out!  For twenty million however, 2
> helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
> Helicopters, so no fire from there!  Again, has the FARC guerillas
> ever used helicopters to get around?
>
> ====
>
> It does seem odd that FARC would be flying helicopters around with the
> Columbians and Americans turning a blind eye and not routinely destroying
> them. Let alone where they would be storing them or getting their fuel 
> from.
> The authorities seem to have predicted raised eyebrows at that so the 
> claim
> is that it was disguised as helicopter of an NGO known to be friendly to
> FARC. That picked up the hostages, flew them to an exchange point where 
> they
> were then moved into a military helicopter.
>
> Quite convenient that they don't have to name who this NGO is which is
> allegedly helping FARC and the transfer means they don't have to produce 
> it.
>
> Why would the Columbians and the US be allowing a known rogue NGO to 
> operate
> in such a way ? They are quick to jump on charities and NGO's allegedly
> helping 'the enemy' so why did they let this one continue operating,
> especially as it must be a quite regular thing for FARC to have trusted 
> such
> an NGO. If they were operating regularly and are working with FARC then it
> would be reasonable to assume they are moving FARC and weapons around, 
> even
> bringing in ramaments and supplies. Why would Columbia or US let that go 
> on
> ?
>
> If they let it go on for intelligence, then they must know an awful lot
> about FARC operational bases, which begs the question why haven't they 
> used
> that information more effectively in the past ?
>
> There's a lot of unaswered questions. "It's a con", covers most of them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080704/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/colombia_hostages_48

By FRANK BAJAK, Associated Press Writer Fri Jul 4, 1:44 AM ET

BOGOTA, Colombia - The plan was nothing if not audacious: A turncoat 
persuades rebels to bring together their most prized hostages and march them 
90 miles through Colombia's wilderness. A month later, disguised commandos 
primed with acting lessons land in a helicopter and trick the rebels into 
handing them over.

The mission was to rescue three U.S. military contractors, former 
presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt and 11 others held captive in the 
Colombian jungles.
Its success hinged entirely, its planners said Thursday, on a near-total 
breakdown in communications between the isolated guerrilla jailers and their 
commanders — the net result of years of intense U.S.-Colombian military 
cooperation that has seriously weakened Latin America's last major rebel 
army.

That, and a bit of revenge.

"When I first got briefed, I said, 'This is realistic? Can this truly work?' 
U.S. Ambassador William Brownfield told The Associated Press. "And 
obviously, the answer was yes."

Wednesday's expertly choreographed rescue had its genesis in the escape last 
year of a Colombian who had spent time in captivity with the three Americans 
and Betancourt.

But it began to gain steam only in January, when Colombian intelligence 
determined that the hostages were being moved, said Gen. Freddy Padilla, 
Colombia's armed forces chief.

The Colombians installed U.S.-provided remote-controlled video monitoring 
devices — which can zoom in and out — along rivers that are the only 
transport route through dense jungles, U.S. and Colombian officials said. 
U.S. surveillance planes intercepted rebel radio and satellite phone 
conversations and employed foliage-penetrating imagery, they said.

In mid-February, a Colombian patrol spotted the three Americans — Marc 
Gonsalves, Keith Stansell and Thomas Howes — bathing in the Apoporis River 
under guard, the first sight of the Americans since their surveillance plane 
crashed in 2003.

For four days, "We had eyes on them," Brownfield said.

But a rescue operation was deemed too risky and called off.

"The president's order was: rescue, yes, but without even a drop of blood," 
said a Colombian army general directly involved in the mission, speaking on 
condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to disclose details.

The general said a disgruntled member of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of 
Colombia, or FARC, had agreed to spearhead the operation. This turncoat, he 
said, was trusted by both the rebels' high command and by the leader of the 
1st Front, which was holding the hostages.

"The FARC's communications are medieval," Padilla said. He said its 
command-and-control is so diminished that it sends important messages by 
courier. This breakdown in the chain of command has made it easier to flip 
disillusioned rebels to the government's side, and indeed, Padilla said more 
than one double agent was involved in this mission.

But the turncoat was the key. He convinced Gerardo Aguilar Ramirez, alias 
Cesar, the commander of the 1st Front, that top commanders wanted the 15 
hostages moved to a rallying point, the general directly involved in the 
operation told the AP.

The turncoat was upset with the FARC because his own commander had taken a 
house and farm away from him, the general said. This was payback.

U.S. spy satellites helped track the hostages on a monthlong journey that 
began May 31 and ended with Wednesday's rescue.

From mid-June on, Brownfield and a team of 100 people at the U.S. Embassy 
who had been dedicated to securing the American hostages' release worked 
closely with the Colombians running the operation.

"The truth of the matter is, we have actually come together in a way that we 
rarely have in the United States of America, except with longtime allies, 
principally NATO allies," Brownfield said of relations with Colombia's 
security forces, which have received more than $4 billion in military aid 
since 2000.

Several times, he said, the U.S. government had to make decisions — "at the 
highest levels" — about proceeding.

On Monday, President Alvaro Uribe gave the go-ahead, Padilla said.

***On Tuesday, the two Russian-made Mi-17 helicopters left a military base 
in an Andean mountain valley, settling down for a nervous night in a 
wilderness clearing.***

Aboard the helicopter that would recover the hostages were four air force 
crewmen in civilian disguise, seven military intelligence agents and the 
guerrilla turncoat, military officials said. Two of the agents were dressed 
as rebels, and the rest wore white, as if representing some sort of 
humanitarian mission. All had taken a week and a half of acting lessons, 
Padilla said.

Shortly after midday on Wednesday, the helicopter touched down at the 
rendezvous point.

One of the agents, posing as a cameraman, recorded video as the guerrillas 
on the ground bound the hostages' hands on the crew's instructions, Padilla 
said. Tying up the hostages was part of the plan.

"These are 14 trained soldiers we're dealing with," Padilla said, referring 
to the captive Americans and 11 Colombian soldiers or police. "Nobody wanted 
to risk them trying to overpower the crew."

Once aloft, it was Cesar and his aide who were overpowered instead.

There was no need for Plan B — sending 39 helicopters and 2,000 troops to 
encircle the hostage-holders and trying to persuade them to give up 
peacefully.

The turncoat is now free and will likely receive a sizable amount from a 
$100 million government reward fund, the general said.

For the FARC, the rescue could not have come at a worse time. The rebels 
were already in disarray after losing three senior commanders in March — one 
killed by government bombs, a second by a turncoat bodyguard and the third, 
co-founder Manuel Marulanda, succumbing to a heart attack at age 78.

"Even before the rescue operation — but especially afterwards — there is 
every indication that the war is, for all intents and purposes, over," said 
Michael Shifter of The Inter-American Dialogue, a nonpartisan Washington 
think tank. "A very different question is whether the FARC is prepared to 
acknowledge that reality."

Padilla said the FARC have maintained complete radio silence since 
Wednesday's rescue. Its two most senior leaders, Monoy Jojoy and Alfonso 
Cano, are hunkered down in jungle hideouts and not communicating.

But Padilla said he thinks it will take well beyond the end of Uribe's 
second term in 2010 to defeat the rebels, who over 44 years have filled 
their ranks with peasants resentful of government neglect.

They are simply too well-entrenched, he said, and unlike Central American 
leftist groups of the 1980s are unprepared to enter peace talks.

"They're not ready for that process," he said. "They can't set conditions."

___

Associated Press writer Libardo Cardona contributed to this report.

"The Happy Hippy"  wrote ...

> There's a lot of unaswered questions. "It's a con", covers most of them.

And where were the military airstrikes on the compound the minute they'd got
the hostages free ? It's not as if FARC would be expecting such an attack.
Seems a golden opportunity to hit FARC which they missed or, more correctly,
simply chose not to take.

Apparently the fake NGO team weren't even armed. Seems unlikely. What if the
op had gone tits-up ? Where was the military backup ready to act if it had
gone tits-up ? What would the Columbian governments response have been if
FARC were parading the captured crew and helicopter showing the Columbian
military operating in the guise of a legitimate NGO ?

There's so much which is improbable about the claimed operation.

"The Happy Hippy"  wrote in message 
news:_%Nbk.21263$E41.5617@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> "The Happy Hippy"  wrote ...
>
>> There's a lot of unaswered questions. "It's a con", covers most of them.
>
> And where were the military airstrikes on the compound the minute they'd 
> got
> the hostages free ? It's not as if FARC would be expecting such an attack.
> Seems a golden opportunity to hit FARC which they missed or, more 
> correctly,
> simply chose not to take.
>
> Apparently the fake NGO team weren't even armed. Seems unlikely. What if 
> the
> op had gone tits-up ? Where was the military backup ready to act if it had
> gone tits-up ? What would the Columbian governments response have been if
> FARC were parading the captured crew and helicopter showing the Columbian
> military operating in the guise of a legitimate NGO ?
>
> There's so much which is improbable about the claimed operation.

Those and other questions were answered in the article I posted, Hippyboy.

George

On Jul 5, 9:51 am, "George"  wrote:
> "chatnoir"  wrote in message
>
> news:fbad582d-c5ea-401e-8395-2bb5d980bcdf@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 4, 9:44 pm, "George"  wrote:
>
>
>
> > "chatnoir"  wrote in message
>
> >news:b73928cb-ba88-47b4-a560-5409d648d22a@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:
>
> > > "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in
> > > messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> > > > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who
> > > > knows
> > > > the truth ...
>
> > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
> > > > ce
>
> > > > <quotes>
>
> > > > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > > > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages
> > > > from
> > > > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some
> > > > reports
> > > > even
> > > > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise
> > > > the
> > > > payment of a ransom.
>
> > > > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> > > > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the
> > > > operation
> > > > had
> > > > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians
> > > > had
> > > > paid
> > > > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > > > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > > > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high
> > > > price,
> > > > and
> > > > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster
> > > > said.
>
> > > > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > > > hostages,
> > > > had been behind the deal.
>
> > > > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's
> > > > relatively
> > > > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
> > > > haggard
> > > > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested
> > > > the
> > > > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to
> > > > health
> > > > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew
> > > > they
> > > > were to be released.
>
> > > > </quotes>
>
> > > > --
> > > > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> > > Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
> > > ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As you
> > > say, hippy - who knows?
>
> > > George
>
> > How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
> > Columbia? Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
> > surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
> > would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
> > short suicide mission! Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
> > themselves would try and take it out! For twenty million however, 2
> > helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
> > Helicopters, so no fire from there! Again, has the FARC guerillas
> > ever used helicopters to get around?
>
> > Since I'm no member of the FARC death squads, I couldn't tell you. Perhaps
> > you have some inside knowledge that the rest of us aren't privy to, eh?
>
> > George
>
> Just from Vietnam!  You did not see the VC running around in
> helicopters and the NVA jets did not stray too far from their
> sanctuaries Near and in China!
>
> Are you suggesting that the FARC (which is financed rather lucratively by
> drug money) could not afford a helicopter?  Columbia is not Vietnam, dude.
>
> George

I am suggesting it would be blown out of the air in minutes!  Where do
they store it?  In one of the neighboring countries?

On Jul 5, 10:58 am, "The Happy Hippy"
 wrote:
> "chatnoir"  wrote ...
>
> On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:> "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in
>
> messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who
> knows
> > > the truth ...
>
> > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42.> > > ce
>
> > > <quotes>
>
> > > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages
> from
> > > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some reports
> > > even
> > > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise the
> > > payment of a ransom.
>
> > > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> > > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the operation
> > > had
> > > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians had
> > > paid
> > > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high price,
> > > and
> > > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster
> said.
>
> > > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > > hostages,
> > > had been behind the deal.
>
> > > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's relatively
> > > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
> haggard
> > > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested the
> > > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to health
> > > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew
> they
> > > were to be released.
>
> > > </quotes>
>
> > > --
> > > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> > Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
> > ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As you
> > say, hippy - who knows?
>
> > George
>
> How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
> Columbia?  Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
> surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
> would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
> short suicide mission!  Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
> themselves would try and take it out!  For twenty million however, 2
> helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
> Helicopters, so no fire from there!  Again, has the FARC guerillas
> ever used helicopters to get around?
>
> ====
>
> It does seem odd that FARC would be flying helicopters around with the
> Columbians and Americans turning a blind eye and not routinely destroying
> them. Let alone where they would be storing them or getting their fuel from.
> The authorities seem to have predicted raised eyebrows at that so the claim
> is that it was disguised as helicopter of an NGO known to be friendly to
> FARC. That picked up the hostages, flew them to an exchange point where they
> were then moved into a military helicopter.
>
> Quite convenient that they don't have to name who this NGO is which is
> allegedly helping FARC and the transfer means they don't have to produce it.
>
> Why would the Columbians and the US be allowing a known rogue NGO to operate
> in such a way ? They are quick to jump on charities and NGO's allegedly
> helping 'the enemy' so why did they let this one continue operating,
> especially as it must be a quite regular thing for FARC to have trusted such
> an NGO. If they were operating regularly and are working with FARC then it
> would be reasonable to assume they are moving FARC and weapons around, even
> bringing in ramaments and supplies. Why would Columbia or US let that go on
> ?

An NGO group friendly to the FARC?  Most NGOs don't have one Copter
lying around for use, much less two!  Given the way labor leaders are
executed in Colombia, I can't see any NGO group being friendly to FARC
and still allowed to operate of even being allowed to live for that
matter!  And just how often did this NGO group give FARC free rides in
the past!  I seem to remember a missionary plane being shot down in
the area a few years ago!  With the US and Colombia fighting like they
do, I just don't see any NGO group running up the copter or two to
transport FARC people around Columbia!



>
> If they let it go on for intelligence, then they must know an awful lot
> about FARC operational bases, which begs the question why haven't they used
> that information more effectively in the past ?
>
> There's a lot of unaswered questions. "It's a con", covers most of them.

On 5 Jul, 18:39, "George"  wrote:
> "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in messagenews:_%Nbk.21263$E41.5617@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "The Happy Hippy"  wrote ...
>
> >> There's a lot of unaswered questions. "It's a con", covers most of them.
>
> > And where were the military airstrikes on the compound the minute they'd
> > got
> > the hostages free ? It's not as if FARC would be expecting such an attack.
> > Seems a golden opportunity to hit FARC which they missed or, more
> > correctly,
> > simply chose not to take.
>
> > Apparently the fake NGO team weren't even armed. Seems unlikely. What if
> > the
> > op had gone tits-up ? Where was the military backup ready to act if it had
> > gone tits-up ? What would the Columbian governments response have been if
> > FARC were parading the captured crew and helicopter showing the Columbian
> > military operating in the guise of a legitimate NGO ?
>
> > There's so much which is improbable about the claimed operation.
>
> Those and other questions were answered in the article I posted, Hippyboy.
>
> George- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Oh, HH isn't interested in answers.  The hate and
the fantasia are all to him.

Israeli advice!

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3563850,00.html

And a lovely post in the talkback:

"Maybe the Sayeret team can rescue us from olmert"

"chatnoir"  wrote in message 
news:96ede42c-37cf-4785-b4d1-d0fc58457f76@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 5, 10:58 am, "The Happy Hippy"
 wrote:
> "chatnoir"  wrote ...
>
> On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:> "The Happy Hippy" 
>  wrote in
>
> messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who
> knows
> > > the truth ...
>
> > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
> > > ce
>
> > > <quotes>
>
> > > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages
> from
> > > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some 
> > > reports
> > > even
> > > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise 
> > > the
> > > payment of a ransom.
>
> > > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> > > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the 
> > > operation
> > > had
> > > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians 
> > > had
> > > paid
> > > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high 
> > > price,
> > > and
> > > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster
> said.
>
> > > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > > hostages,
> > > had been behind the deal.
>
> > > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's 
> > > relatively
> > > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
> haggard
> > > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested 
> > > the
> > > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to 
> > > health
> > > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew
> they
> > > were to be released.
>
> > > </quotes>
>
> > > --
> > > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> > Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
> > ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As you
> > say, hippy - who knows?
>
> > George
>
> How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
> Columbia? Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
> surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
> would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
> short suicide mission! Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
> themselves would try and take it out! For twenty million however, 2
> helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
> Helicopters, so no fire from there! Again, has the FARC guerillas
> ever used helicopters to get around?
>
> ====
>
> It does seem odd that FARC would be flying helicopters around with the
> Columbians and Americans turning a blind eye and not routinely destroying
> them. Let alone where they would be storing them or getting their fuel 
> from.
> The authorities seem to have predicted raised eyebrows at that so the 
> claim
> is that it was disguised as helicopter of an NGO known to be friendly to
> FARC. That picked up the hostages, flew them to an exchange point where 
> they
> were then moved into a military helicopter.
>
> Quite convenient that they don't have to name who this NGO is which is
> allegedly helping FARC and the transfer means they don't have to produce 
> it.
>
> Why would the Columbians and the US be allowing a known rogue NGO to 
> operate
> in such a way ? They are quick to jump on charities and NGO's allegedly
> helping 'the enemy' so why did they let this one continue operating,
> especially as it must be a quite regular thing for FARC to have trusted 
> such
> an NGO. If they were operating regularly and are working with FARC then it
> would be reasonable to assume they are moving FARC and weapons around, 
> even
> bringing in ramaments and supplies. Why would Columbia or US let that go 
> on
> ?

An NGO group friendly to the FARC?  Most NGOs don't have one Copter
lying around for use, much less two!  Given the way labor leaders are
executed in Colombia, I can't see any NGO group being friendly to FARC
and still allowed to operate of even being allowed to live for that
matter!  And just how often did this NGO group give FARC free rides in
the past!  I seem to remember a missionary plane being shot down in
the area a few years ago!  With the US and Colombia fighting like they
do, I just don't see any NGO group running up the copter or two to
transport FARC people around Columbia!

I take it you guys still haven't read my earlier post.  The helicopters were 
Russian made, and were leased.  NGOs do that sometimes (lease equipment).

George

On Jul 6, 4:00 am, "George"  wrote:
> "chatnoir"  wrote in message
>
> news:96ede42c-37cf-4785-b4d1-d0fc58457f76@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 5, 10:58 am, "The Happy Hippy"
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> > "chatnoir"  wrote ...
>
> > On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:> "The Happy Hippy"
> >  wrote in
>
> > messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> > > > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who
> > knows
> > > > the truth ...
>
> > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
> > > > ce
>
> > > > <quotes>
>
> > > > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > > > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages
> > from
> > > > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some
> > > > reports
> > > > even
> > > > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise
> > > > the
> > > > payment of a ransom.
>
> > > > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the events,
> > > > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the
> > > > operation
> > > > had
> > > > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians
> > > > had
> > > > paid
> > > > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > > > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > > > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high
> > > > price,
> > > > and
> > > > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster
> > said.
>
> > > > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > > > hostages,
> > > > had been behind the deal.
>
> > > > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's
> > > > relatively
> > > > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
> > haggard
> > > > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested
> > > > the
> > > > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to
> > > > health
> > > > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew
> > they
> > > > were to be released.
>
> > > > </quotes>
>
> > > > --
> > > > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> > > Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of the
> > > ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As you
> > > say, hippy - who knows?
>
> > > George
>
> > How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
> > Columbia? Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
> > surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
> > would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
> > short suicide mission! Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
> > themselves would try and take it out! For twenty million however, 2
> > helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
> > Helicopters, so no fire from there! Again, has the FARC guerillas
> > ever used helicopters to get around?
>
> > ====
>
> > It does seem odd that FARC would be flying helicopters around with the
> > Columbians and Americans turning a blind eye and not routinely destroying
> > them. Let alone where they would be storing them or getting their fuel
> > from.
> > The authorities seem to have predicted raised eyebrows at that so the
> > claim
> > is that it was disguised as helicopter of an NGO known to be friendly to
> > FARC. That picked up the hostages, flew them to an exchange point where
> > they
> > were then moved into a military helicopter.
>
> > Quite convenient that they don't have to name who this NGO is which is
> > allegedly helping FARC and the transfer means they don't have to produce
> > it.
>
> > Why would the Columbians and the US be allowing a known rogue NGO to
> > operate
> > in such a way ? They are quick to jump on charities and NGO's allegedly
> > helping 'the enemy' so why did they let this one continue operating,
> > especially as it must be a quite regular thing for FARC to have trusted
> > such
> > an NGO. If they were operating regularly and are working with FARC then it
> > would be reasonable to assume they are moving FARC and weapons around,
> > even
> > bringing in ramaments and supplies. Why would Columbia or US let that go
> > on
> > ?
>
> An NGO group friendly to the FARC?  Most NGOs don't have one Copter
> lying around for use, much less two!  Given the way labor leaders are
> executed in Colombia, I can't see any NGO group being friendly to FARC
> and still allowed to operate of even being allowed to live for that
> matter!  And just how often did this NGO group give FARC free rides in
> the past!  I seem to remember a missionary plane being shot down in
> the area a few years ago!  With the US and Colombia fighting like they
> do, I just don't see any NGO group running up the copter or two to
> transport FARC people around Columbia!
>
> I take it you guys still haven't read my earlier post.  The helicopters were
> Russian made, and were leased.  NGOs do that sometimes (lease equipment> George

How much does it take to lease a Russian helicoper?

"chatnoir"  wrote ...

On Jul 6, 4:00 am, "George"  wrote:
> "chatnoir"  wrote in message
>
> news:96ede42c-37cf-4785-b4d1-d0fc58457f76@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 5, 10:58 am, "The Happy Hippy"
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> > "chatnoir"  wrote ...
>
> > On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:> "The Happy
Hippy"
> >  wrote in
>
> > messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> > > > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but who
> > knows
> > > > the truth ...
>
> > >
>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
> > > > ce
>
> > > > <quotes>
>
> > > > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> > > > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 hostages
> > from
> > > > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some
> > > > reports
> > > > even
> > > > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise
> > > > the
> > > > payment of a ransom.
>
> > > > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the
events,
> > > > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the
> > > > operation
> > > > had
> > > > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians
> > > > had
> > > > paid
> > > > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> > > > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, the
> > > > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high
> > > > price,
> > > > and
> > > > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public broadcaster
> > said.
>
> > > > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> > > > hostages,
> > > > had been behind the deal.
>
> > > > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's
> > > > relatively
> > > > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
> > haggard
> > > > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested
> > > > the
> > > > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to
> > > > health
> > > > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages knew
> > they
> > > > were to be released.
>
> > > > </quotes>
>
> > > > --
> > > > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> > > Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of
the
> > > ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As
you
> > > say, hippy - who knows?
>
> > > George
>
> > How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
> > Columbia? Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
> > surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
> > would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
> > short suicide mission! Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
> > themselves would try and take it out! For twenty million however, 2
> > helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
> > Helicopters, so no fire from there! Again, has the FARC guerillas
> > ever used helicopters to get around?
>
> > ====
>
> > It does seem odd that FARC would be flying helicopters around with the
> > Columbians and Americans turning a blind eye and not routinely
destroying
> > them. Let alone where they would be storing them or getting their fuel
> > from.
> > The authorities seem to have predicted raised eyebrows at that so the
> > claim
> > is that it was disguised as helicopter of an NGO known to be friendly to
> > FARC. That picked up the hostages, flew them to an exchange point where
> > they
> > were then moved into a military helicopter.
>
> > Quite convenient that they don't have to name who this NGO is which is
> > allegedly helping FARC and the transfer means they don't have to produce
> > it.
>
> > Why would the Columbians and the US be allowing a known rogue NGO to
> > operate
> > in such a way ? They are quick to jump on charities and NGO's allegedly
> > helping 'the enemy' so why did they let this one continue operating,
> > especially as it must be a quite regular thing for FARC to have trusted
> > such
> > an NGO. If they were operating regularly and are working with FARC then
it
> > would be reasonable to assume they are moving FARC and weapons around,
> > even
> > bringing in ramaments and supplies. Why would Columbia or US let that go
> > on
> > ?
>
> An NGO group friendly to the FARC? Most NGOs don't have one Copter
> lying around for use, much less two! Given the way labor leaders are
> executed in Colombia, I can't see any NGO group being friendly to FARC
> and still allowed to operate of even being allowed to live for that
> matter! And just how often did this NGO group give FARC free rides in
> the past! I seem to remember a missionary plane being shot down in
> the area a few years ago! With the US and Colombia fighting like they
> do, I just don't see any NGO group running up the copter or two to
> transport FARC people around Columbia!
>
> I take it you guys still haven't read my earlier post. The helicopters
were
> Russian made, and were leased. NGOs do that sometimes (lease equipment).
>
> George

How much does it take to lease a Russian helicoper?

=====

So now we have a claim that this NGO friendly to FARC is leasing Russian
helicopters, flying them around Columbia and the Columbian military and
authorities haven't done anything to stop them, have simply turned a blind
eye to this NGO operating with FARC.

Doesn't seem very likely to me.

Apparently there was also a Plan B if everything had gone tits-up - "9 more
helicopters and 2,000 troops were in position to encircle the
hostage-holders and try to persuade them to give up peacefully"

http://news.scotsman.com/world/39Mission-impossible39-in-the-jungle.4260550.
jp

So Columbian forces moved 39 helicopters and 2,000 troops into the immediate
area yet no one from FARC had noticed that going on ?

It all seems highly implausible.

"The Happy Hippy"  wrote in message 
news:DS2ck.21670$E41.17310@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> "chatnoir"  wrote ...
>
> On Jul 6, 4:00 am, "George"  wrote:
>> "chatnoir"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:96ede42c-37cf-4785-b4d1-d0fc58457f76@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 5, 10:58 am, "The Happy Hippy"
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> > "chatnoir"  wrote ...
>>
>> > On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:> "The Happy
> Hippy"
>> >  wrote in
>>
>> > messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>
>> > > > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but 
>> > > > who
>> > knows
>> > > > the truth ...
>>
>> > >
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
>> > > > ce
>>
>> > > > <quotes>
>>
>> > > > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>>
>> > > > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15 
>> > > > hostages
>> > from
>> > > > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some
>> > > > reports
>> > > > even
>> > > > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise
>> > > > the
>> > > > payment of a ransom.
>>
>> > > > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the
> events,
>> > > > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the
>> > > > operation
>> > > > had
>> > > > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians
>> > > > had
>> > > > paid
>> > > > $20 million for their freedom.
>>
>> > > > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt, 
>> > > > the
>> > > > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high
>> > > > price,
>> > > > and
>> > > > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public 
>> > > > broadcaster
>> > said.
>>
>> > > > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
>> > > > hostages,
>> > > > had been behind the deal.
>>
>> > > > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's
>> > > > relatively
>> > > > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
>> > haggard
>> > > > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested
>> > > > the
>> > > > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to
>> > > > health
>> > > > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages 
>> > > > knew
>> > they
>> > > > were to be released.
>>
>> > > > </quotes>
>>
>> > > > --
>> > > > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>>
>> > > Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of
> the
>> > > ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As
> you
>> > > say, hippy - who knows?
>>
>> > > George
>>
>> > How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
>> > Columbia? Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
>> > surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
>> > would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
>> > short suicide mission! Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
>> > themselves would try and take it out! For twenty million however, 2
>> > helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
>> > Helicopters, so no fire from there! Again, has the FARC guerillas
>> > ever used helicopters to get around?
>>
>> > ====
>>
>> > It does seem odd that FARC would be flying helicopters around with the
>> > Columbians and Americans turning a blind eye and not routinely
> destroying
>> > them. Let alone where they would be storing them or getting their fuel
>> > from.
>> > The authorities seem to have predicted raised eyebrows at that so the
>> > claim
>> > is that it was disguised as helicopter of an NGO known to be friendly 
>> > to
>> > FARC. That picked up the hostages, flew them to an exchange point where
>> > they
>> > were then moved into a military helicopter.
>>
>> > Quite convenient that they don't have to name who this NGO is which is
>> > allegedly helping FARC and the transfer means they don't have to 
>> > produce
>> > it.
>>
>> > Why would the Columbians and the US be allowing a known rogue NGO to
>> > operate
>> > in such a way ? They are quick to jump on charities and NGO's allegedly
>> > helping 'the enemy' so why did they let this one continue operating,
>> > especially as it must be a quite regular thing for FARC to have trusted
>> > such
>> > an NGO. If they were operating regularly and are working with FARC then
> it
>> > would be reasonable to assume they are moving FARC and weapons around,
>> > even
>> > bringing in ramaments and supplies. Why would Columbia or US let that 
>> > go
>> > on
>> > ?
>>
>> An NGO group friendly to the FARC? Most NGOs don't have one Copter
>> lying around for use, much less two! Given the way labor leaders are
>> executed in Colombia, I can't see any NGO group being friendly to FARC
>> and still allowed to operate of even being allowed to live for that
>> matter! And just how often did this NGO group give FARC free rides in
>> the past! I seem to remember a missionary plane being shot down in
>> the area a few years ago! With the US and Colombia fighting like they
>> do, I just don't see any NGO group running up the copter or two to
>> transport FARC people around Columbia!
>>
>> I take it you guys still haven't read my earlier post. The helicopters
> were
>> Russian made, and were leased. NGOs do that sometimes (lease equipment).
>>
>> George
>
> How much does it take to lease a Russian helicoper?
>
> =====
>
> So now we have a claim that this NGO friendly to FARC is leasing Russian
> helicopters, flying them around Columbia and the Columbian military and
> authorities haven't done anything to stop them, have simply turned a blind
> eye to this NGO operating with FARC.
>
> Doesn't seem very likely to me.
>
> Apparently there was also a Plan B if everything had gone tits-up - "9 
> more
> helicopters and 2,000 troops were in position to encircle the
> hostage-holders and try to persuade them to give up peacefully"
>
> http://news.scotsman.com/world/39Mission-impossible39-in-the-jungle.4260550.
> jp
>
> So Columbian forces moved 39 helicopters and 2,000 troops into the 
> immediate
> area yet no one from FARC had noticed that going on ?
>
> It all seems highly implausible.

But then, you see conspiracies everywhere, Hippyboy.  The hostages are back 
home.  Get over it already.  Jeez. What are you, a FARC sucubus, or what?

George

On Jul 6, 12:58 pm, "George"  wrote:
> "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in messagenews:DS2ck.21670$E41.17310@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>
>
> > "chatnoir"  wrote ...
>
> > On Jul 6, 4:00 am, "George"  wrote:
> >> "chatnoir"  wrote in message
>
> >>news:96ede42c-37cf-4785-b4d1-d0fc58457f76@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com.> >> On Jul 5, 10:58 am, "The Happy Hippy"
>
> >>  wrote:
> >> > "chatnoir"  wrote ...
>
> >> > On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:> "The Happy
> > Hippy"
> >> >  wrote in
>
> >> > messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> >> > > > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but
> >> > > > who
> >> > knows
> >> > > > the truth ...
>
> >>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42..> >> > > > ce
>
> >> > > > <quotes>
>
> >> > > > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt rescue
>
> >> > > > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15
> >> > > > hostages
> >> > from
> >> > > > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some
> >> > > > reports
> >> > > > even
> >> > > > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to disguise
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > payment of a ransom.
>
> >> > > > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the
> > events,
> >> > > > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the
> >> > > > operation
> >> > > > had
> >> > > > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and Colombians
> >> > > > had
> >> > > > paid
> >> > > > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> >> > > > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt,
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high
> >> > > > price,
> >> > > > and
> >> > > > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public
> >> > > > broadcaster
> >> > said.
>
> >> > > > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among the
> >> > > > hostages,
> >> > > > had been behind the deal.
>
> >> > > > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's
> >> > > > relatively
> >> > > > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
> >> > haggard
> >> > > > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio suggested
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to
> >> > > > health
> >> > > > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages
> >> > > > knew
> >> > they
> >> > > > were to be released.
>
> >> > > > </quotes>
>
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> >> > > Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those of
> > the
> >> > > ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? As
> > you
> >> > > say, hippy - who knows?
>
> >> > > George
>
> >> > How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
> >> > Columbia? Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
> >> > surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
> >> > would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
> >> > short suicide mission! Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
> >> > themselves would try and take it out! For twenty million however, 2
> >> > helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
> >> > Helicopters, so no fire from there! Again, has the FARC guerillas
> >> > ever used helicopters to get around?
>
> >> > ====
>
> >> > It does seem odd that FARC would be flying helicopters around with the
> >> > Columbians and Americans turning a blind eye and not routinely
> > destroying
> >> > them. Let alone where they would be storing them or getting their fuel
> >> > from.
> >> > The authorities seem to have predicted raised eyebrows at that so the
> >> > claim
> >> > is that it was disguised as helicopter of an NGO known to be friendly
> >> > to
> >> > FARC. That picked up the hostages, flew them to an exchange point where
> >> > they
> >> > were then moved into a military helicopter.
>
> >> > Quite convenient that they don't have to name who this NGO is which is
> >> > allegedly helping FARC and the transfer means they don't have to
> >> > produce
> >> > it.
>
> >> > Why would the Columbians and the US be allowing a known rogue NGO to
> >> > operate
> >> > in such a way ? They are quick to jump on charities and NGO's allegedly
> >> > helping 'the enemy' so why did they let this one continue operating,
> >> > especially as it must be a quite regular thing for FARC to have trusted
> >> > such
> >> > an NGO. If they were operating regularly and are working with FARC then
> > it
> >> > would be reasonable to assume they are moving FARC and weapons around,
> >> > even
> >> > bringing in ramaments and supplies. Why would Columbia or US let that
> >> > go
> >> > on
> >> > ?
>
> >> An NGO group friendly to the FARC? Most NGOs don't have one Copter
> >> lying around for use, much less two! Given the way labor leaders are
> >> executed in Colombia, I can't see any NGO group being friendly to FARC
> >> and still allowed to operate of even being allowed to live for that
> >> matter! And just how often did this NGO group give FARC free rides in
> >> the past! I seem to remember a missionary plane being shot down in
> >> the area a few years ago! With the US and Colombia fighting like they
> >> do, I just don't see any NGO group running up the copter or two to
> >> transport FARC people around Columbia!
>
> >> I take it you guys still haven't read my earlier post. The helicopters
> > were
> >> Russian made, and were leased. NGOs do that sometimes (lease equipment> >> George
>
> > How much does it take to lease a Russian helicoper?
>
> > =====
>
> > So now we have a claim that this NGO friendly to FARC is leasing Russian
> > helicopters, flying them around Columbia and the Columbian military and
> > authorities haven't done anything to stop them, have simply turned a blind
> > eye to this NGO operating with FARC.
>
> > Doesn't seem very likely to me.
>
> > Apparently there was also a Plan B if everything had gone tits-up - "9
> > more
> > helicopters and 2,000 troops were in position to encircle the
> > hostage-holders and try to persuade them to give up peacefully"
>
> >http://news.scotsman.com/world/39Mission-impossible39-in-the-jungle.4...> > jp
>
> > So Columbian forces mhttp://groups.google.com/group/uk.current-events.terrorismoved 39 helicopters and 2,000 troops into the
> > immediate
> > area yet no one from FARC had noticed that going on ?
>
> > It all seems highly implausible.
>
> But then, you see conspiracies everywhere, Hippyboy.  The hostages are back
> home.  Get over it already.  Jeez. What are you, a FARC sucubus, or what?
>
> George

Let us get down what really happened - Not the Pap they feed the the
common citizen!

"chatnoir"  wrote in message 
news:ad7c1b5e-2aa2-4939-9e89-9bc67c8c2773@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 6, 12:58 pm, "George"  wrote:
> "The Happy Hippy"  wrote in 
> messagenews:DS2ck.21670$E41.17310@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>
>
> > "chatnoir"  wrote ...
>
> > On Jul 6, 4:00 am, "George"  wrote:
> >> "chatnoir"  wrote in message
>
> >>news:96ede42c-37cf-4785-b4d1-d0fc58457f76@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Jul 5, 10:58 am, "The Happy Hippy"
>
> >>  wrote:
> >> > "chatnoir"  wrote ...
>
> >> > On Jul 4, 5:03 pm, "George"  wrote:> "The Happy
> > Hippy"
> >> >  wrote in
>
> >> > messagenews:j1vbk.20829$E41.8869@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> >> > > > Things aren't always as they seem nor as they are presented, but
> >> > > > who
> >> > knows
> >> > > > the truth ...
>
> >>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article42...
> >> > > > ce
>
> >> > > > <quotes>
>
> >> > > > Brilliant or a sham? Questions asked over Ingrid Betancourt 
> >> > > > rescue
>
> >> > > > The bloodless and apparently brilliant operation to free 15
> >> > > > hostages
> >> > from
> >> > > > the Colombian jungle today became mired in confusion, with some
> >> > > > reports
> >> > > > even
> >> > > > claiming that the entire episode was nothing but a sham to 
> >> > > > disguise
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > payment of a ransom.
>
> >> > > > Swiss public radio cited an unidentified source "close to the
> > events,
> >> > > > reliable and tested many times in recent years" as saying the
> >> > > > operation
> >> > > > had
> >> > > > in fact been staged to cover up the fact that the US and 
> >> > > > Colombians
> >> > > > had
> >> > > > paid
> >> > > > $20 million for their freedom.
>
> >> > > > The hostages released on Wednesday, including Ingrid Betancourt,
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > French-Colombian politician, "were in reality ransomed for a high
> >> > > > price,
> >> > > > and
> >> > > > the whole operation afterwards was a set-up," the public
> >> > > > broadcaster
> >> > said.
>
> >> > > > The report claimed that the US, which had three citizens among 
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > hostages,
> >> > > > had been behind the deal.
>
> >> > > > French media have also raised questions about Ms Betancourt's
> >> > > > relatively
> >> > > > healthy appearance after her release, compared with the gaunt and
> >> > haggard
> >> > > > look of her last video from captivity. French state radio 
> >> > > > suggested
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > hostages may have been given food and medicine to return them to
> >> > > > health
> >> > > > before their release. There was no suggestion that the hostages
> >> > > > knew
> >> > they
> >> > > > were to be released.
>
> >> > > > </quotes>
>
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > My bestest friend Jesse :http://tinyurl.com/6zwjnz-
>
> >> > > Why are the ultra-left's "unidentified sources" better than those 
> >> > > of
> > the
> >> > > ultra-rights'? Or could the real bullshit story be the one above? 
> >> > > As
> > you
> >> > > say, hippy - who knows?
>
> >> > > George
>
> >> > How often do helicopters come out to assist the Guerillas in
> >> > Columbia? Given all the money the US has given Columbia for
> >> > surveillance and all the surveillance the US can carry out there. I
> >> > would say two helicopters flying out to help the FARC would be on a
> >> > short suicide mission! Either Columbia or the FARC guerillas
> >> > themselves would try and take it out! For twenty million however, 2
> >> > helicopters would not be molested by FARC and it was Columbian
> >> > Helicopters, so no fire from there! Again, has the FARC guerillas
> >> > ever used helicopters to get around?
>
> >> > ====
>
> >> > It does seem odd that FARC would be flying helicopters around with 
> >> > the
> >> > Columbians and Americans turning a blind eye and not routinely
> > destroying
> >> > them. Let alone where they would be storing them or getting their 
> >> > fuel
> >> > from.
> >> > The authorities seem to have predicted raised eyebrows at that so the
> >> > claim
> >> > is that it was disguised as helicopter of an NGO known to be friendly
> >> > to
> >> > FARC. That picked up the hostages, flew them to an exchange point 
> >> > where
> >> > they
> >> > were then moved into a military helicopter.
>
> >> > Quite convenient that they don't have to name who this NGO is which 
> >> > is
> >> > allegedly helping FARC and the transfer means they don't have to
> >> > produce
> >> > it.
>
> >> > Why would the Columbians and the US be allowing a known rogue NGO to
> >> > operate
> >> > in such a way ? They are quick to jump on charities and NGO's 
> >> > allegedly
> >> > helping 'the enemy' so why did they let this one continue operating,
> >> > especially as it must be a quite regular thing for FARC to have 
> >> > trusted
> >> > such
> >> > an NGO. If they were operating regularly and are working with FARC 
> >> > then
> > it
> >> > would be reasonable to assume they are moving FARC and weapons 
> >> > around,
> >> > even
> >> > bringing in ramaments and supplies. Why would Columbia or US let that
> >> > go
> >> > on
> >> > ?
>
> >> An NGO group friendly to the FARC? Most NGOs don't have one Copter
> >> lying around for use, much less two! Given the way labor leaders are
> >> executed in Colombia, I can't see any NGO group being friendly to FARC
> >> and still allowed to operate of even being allowed to live for that
> >> matter! And just how often did this NGO group give FARC free rides in
> >> the past! I seem to remember a missionary plane being shot down in
> >> the area a few years ago! With the US and Colombia fighting like they
> >> do, I just don't see any NGO group running up the copter or two to
> >> transport FARC people around Columbia!
>
> >> I take it you guys still haven't read my earlier post. The helicopters
> > were
> >> Russian made, and were leased. NGOs do that sometimes (lease 
> >> equipment).
>
> >> George
>
> > How much does it take to lease a Russian helicoper?
>
> > =====
>
> > So now we have a claim that this NGO friendly to FARC is leasing Russian
> > helicopters, flying them around Columbia and the Columbian military and
> > authorities haven't done anything to stop them, have simply turned a 
> > blind
> > eye to this NGO operating with FARC.
>
> > Doesn't seem very likely to me.
>
> > Apparently there was also a Plan B if everything had gone tits-up - "9
> > more
> > helicopters and 2,000 troops were in position to encircle the
> > hostage-holders and try to persuade them to give up peacefully"
>
> >http://news.scotsman.com/world/39Mission-impossible39-in-the-jungle.4....
> > jp
>
> > So Columbian forces 
> > mhttp://groups.google.com/group/uk.current-events.terrorismoved 39 
> > helicopters and 2,000 troops into the
> > immediate
> > area yet no one from FARC had noticed that going on ?
>
> > It all seems highly implausible.
>
> But then, you see conspiracies everywhere, Hippyboy. The hostages are back
> home. Get over it already. Jeez. What are you, a FARC sucubus, or what?
>
> George

> Let us get down what really happened - Not the Pap they feed the the
> common citizen!

Do explain what difference it makes to the hostages who are now home with 
their loved ones.

George