A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub was a
"more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.

Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina Flaherty with a
tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.

Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.

He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him inside
his home during opening hours.

The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the city's
Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of culpable
homicide.

At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under normal
circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double figures.

He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. It is
plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be released
in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
condition.

	The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
significant physical and mental decline
Donald MacLeod
Defence QC
"Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a sentence
that restricts your liberty.

"You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy her
relatives.

"Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a prison
sentence which will not last long."

During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no recollection of the
moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.

When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no ghosts
running about the house who would have done that."

Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court paints a
picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.

"There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.

"I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very unwell.

"He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this was flatly
rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm

Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
if he'll be banned from a pub...  

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:3m4e94l1ase57c4j1kgqeaq2v25036850u@4ax.com...
>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub was 
>a
> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>
> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina Flaherty 
> with a
> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>
> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>
> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him 
> inside
> his home during opening hours.
>
> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the 
> city's
> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of 
> culpable
> homicide.
>
> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under 
> normal
> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double 
> figures.
>
> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. It 
> is
> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be 
> released
> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
> condition.
>
> The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
> significant physical and mental decline
> Donald MacLeod
> Defence QC
> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a 
> sentence
> that restricts your liberty.
>
> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy 
> her
> relatives.
>
> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a 
> prison
> sentence which will not last long."
>
> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no recollection 
> of the
> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>
> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no 
> ghosts
> running about the house who would have done that."
>
> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court paints 
> a
> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>
> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>
> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very 
> unwell.
>
> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this was 
> flatly
> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>
> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year 
> old
> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...
Dont worry ray, just do a search and cut and paste as you normally do, you 
boring prat

 Hmmm...  Wonder
> if he'll be banned from a pub...
>
> Ray
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:10:59 +0100, "David C Jones"
 wrote:

>
>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
>news:3m4e94l1ase57c4j1kgqeaq2v25036850u@4ax.com...
>>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub was 
>>a
>> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>>
>> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina Flaherty 
>> with a
>> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>>
>> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>>
>> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him 
>> inside
>> his home during opening hours.
>>
>> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the 
>> city's
>> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of 
>> culpable
>> homicide.
>>
>> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under 
>> normal
>> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double 
>> figures.
>>
>> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. It 
>> is
>> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be 
>> released
>> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
>> condition.
>>
>> The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
>> significant physical and mental decline
>> Donald MacLeod
>> Defence QC
>> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a 
>> sentence
>> that restricts your liberty.
>>
>> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy 
>> her
>> relatives.
>>
>> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a 
>> prison
>> sentence which will not last long."
>>
>> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no recollection 
>> of the
>> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>>
>> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no 
>> ghosts
>> running about the house who would have done that."
>>
>> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court paints 
>> a
>> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>>
>> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
>> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>>
>> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very 
>> unwell.
>>
>> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this was 
>> flatly
>> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>>
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>>
>> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year 
>> old
>> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...
>Dont worry ray, just do a search and cut and paste as you normally do, you 
>boring prat
>
> Hmmm...  Wonder

Why not try it your self... You'd look less of a prat and people might actually
think you have a brain inside your head!!!  Imagine that!!!  

Now... Do you have an opinion about this murderous bastard getting banned from a
pub as punishment?  FFS!!  Even YOU must think this is taking the piss?  No?

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
 wrote:

>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub was a
>"more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>
>Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina Flaherty with a
>tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>
>Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>
>He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him inside
>his home during opening hours.
>
>The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the city's
>Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of culpable
>homicide.
>
>At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under normal
>circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double figures.
>
>He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. It is
>plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be released
>in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
>condition.
>
>	The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
>significant physical and mental decline
>Donald MacLeod
>Defence QC
>"Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a sentence
>that restricts your liberty.
>
>"You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy her
>relatives.
>
>"Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a prison
>sentence which will not last long."
>
>During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no recollection of the
>moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>
>When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no ghosts
>running about the house who would have done that."
>
>Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court paints a
>picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>
>"There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
>condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>
>"I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very unwell.
>
>"He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this was flatly
>rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>
>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
>if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>
>Ray
>

You might want to read this follow up news article:

A man police dubbed "the millionaire shoplifter" has been jailed for more than
two years for money laundering.

Kevin Castle, of Nottingham, obtained refunds for shoplifted goods from DIY
stores in north-west England and the Midlands, Preston Crown Court heard.

Castle was wanted by police forces in Lancashire, Nottingham and Greater
Manchester, when he was caught.

At Preston Crown Court, Castle, 43, admitted money laundering and was jailed for
28 months.

Height boosted

Lancashire Police said Castle prompted "a complex and protracted enquiry" with
"crimes committed all over the UK" at Homebase and B&Q stores.

Detectives believe he was making between £500 and £1,000 a day from as far back
as 2004 as he drove around the country claiming numerous refunds.

He used a variety of disguises, posing as a electrical engineer, alarm fitter
and property developer.

The court heard he even wore blocks in his shoes to boost his height of 5ft 5in.

Castle, of Gibbons Avenue, Stapleford, was finally caught as he tried to
exchange a packet of doorknobs at the Homebase branch in Altrincham.

	He has an appalling set of antecedents and he admits he has wasted his
life
Ian Whitehurst
Defending

The court heard Castle spent £140,000 gained from the scam using it to stay in a
five-star hotel, rent a luxury apartment and hire top-of-the-range cars.

He booked a 28-night stay at Claridge's Hotel in London and hired expensive cars
including a Porsche Cayenne and several Jaguars.

Castle's fraud first came to the attention of Lancashire Police in 2004 when he
tried to get a refund using a fraudulent receipt at B&Q store in Bamber Bridge,
Preston.

In 2005, he pleaded guilty at Preston Crown Court to four counts of obtaining
property by deception, with 35 other offences to be taken into consideration.

'Appalling record'

Peter McNaught, prosecuting, said police later found large amounts of money in
Castle's then-partner Elaine Rogers's accounts, which were funding "a lavish
lifestyle".

Both were arrested on suspicion of money laundering in April 2006 and later
bailed, but Castle was arrested again three months later after the doorknob
incident in Altrincham.

A search of his Jaguar uncovered 28 packets of Homebase doorknobs and a map
highlighting 300 store locations in the North of England and the Midlands. A
till roll was found by officers at his home.

Castle was again released on bail and went on the run. He was eventually
arrested as he got out of a hired BMW X5 on a car park in the village of Burton
Joyce, near Nottingham, in February 2008.

A week later, Rogers, 47, of Chad Gardens, Nottingham was sentenced to 12 months
in jail, suspended for two years, at Preston Crown Court for money laundering.

Ian Whitehurst, defending, said Castle now wanted to start a new life.

"He has an appalling set of antecedents and he admits he has wasted his life,"
said Mr Whitehurst.

Refunds policy changed

Lancashire police said Castle continues to be investigated by Nottinghamshire
Police regarding a number of separate deception offences.

Despite the attention on Castle, Det Con Dot Walker, of Lancashire Police, said
his ex-partner also played a part in the con.

"She was spending on a massive scale at places such as Harrods and Claridges in
London," said Ms Walker.

"Castle and Rogers have lived the high life for many years, living off the
proceeds of crime."

Both are now subject to confiscation investigations under the Proceeds of Crime
Act, Mrs Walker added.

Welcoming the conviction, a B&Q spokesperson said: "Since this fraud was
initially detected we have substantially changed our refunds policy, which makes
replicating this kind of fraudulent activity much more difficult.

"We continue to take fraud and all kinds of theft extremely seriously and
co-operate with the authorities wherever we can."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/7540972.stm

2 years for the five fingered discount and yet banned from a pub for murder..

This is what liberal legal laws lead to... 

What say you now?

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:30:48 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
 wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
> wrote:
>
>>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub was a
>>"more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>>
>>Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina Flaherty with a
>>tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>>
>>Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>>
>>He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him inside
>>his home during opening hours.
>>
>>The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the city's
>>Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of culpable
>>homicide.
>>
>>At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under normal
>>circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double figures.
>>
>>He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. It is
>>plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be released
>>in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
>>condition.
>>
>>	The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
>>significant physical and mental decline
>>Donald MacLeod
>>Defence QC
>>"Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a sentence
>>that restricts your liberty.
>>
>>"You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy her
>>relatives.
>>
>>"Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a prison
>>sentence which will not last long."
>>
>>During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no recollection of the
>>moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>>
>>When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no ghosts
>>running about the house who would have done that."
>>
>>Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court paints a
>>picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>>
>>"There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
>>condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>>
>>"I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very unwell.
>>
>>"He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this was flatly
>>rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>>
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>>
>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
>>if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>>
>>Ray
>>
>
>You might want to read this follow up news article:
>
>A man police dubbed "the millionaire shoplifter" has been jailed for more than
>two years for money laundering.
>
>Kevin Castle, of Nottingham, obtained refunds for shoplifted goods from DIY
>stores in north-west England and the Midlands, Preston Crown Court heard.
>
>Castle was wanted by police forces in Lancashire, Nottingham and Greater
>Manchester, when he was caught.
>
>At Preston Crown Court, Castle, 43, admitted money laundering and was jailed for
>28 months.
>
>Height boosted
>
>Lancashire Police said Castle prompted "a complex and protracted enquiry" with
>"crimes committed all over the UK" at Homebase and B&Q stores.
>
>Detectives believe he was making between £500 and £1,000 a day from as far back
>as 2004 as he drove around the country claiming numerous refunds.
>
>He used a variety of disguises, posing as a electrical engineer, alarm fitter
>and property developer.
>
>The court heard he even wore blocks in his shoes to boost his height of 5ft 5in.
>
>Castle, of Gibbons Avenue, Stapleford, was finally caught as he tried to
>exchange a packet of doorknobs at the Homebase branch in Altrincham.
>
>	He has an appalling set of antecedents and he admits he has wasted his
>life
>Ian Whitehurst
>Defending
>
>The court heard Castle spent £140,000 gained from the scam using it to stay in a
>five-star hotel, rent a luxury apartment and hire top-of-the-range cars.
>
>He booked a 28-night stay at Claridge's Hotel in London and hired expensive cars
>including a Porsche Cayenne and several Jaguars.
>
>Castle's fraud first came to the attention of Lancashire Police in 2004 when he
>tried to get a refund using a fraudulent receipt at B&Q store in Bamber Bridge,
>Preston.
>
>In 2005, he pleaded guilty at Preston Crown Court to four counts of obtaining
>property by deception, with 35 other offences to be taken into consideration.
>
>'Appalling record'
>
>Peter McNaught, prosecuting, said police later found large amounts of money in
>Castle's then-partner Elaine Rogers's accounts, which were funding "a lavish
>lifestyle".
>
>Both were arrested on suspicion of money laundering in April 2006 and later
>bailed, but Castle was arrested again three months later after the doorknob
>incident in Altrincham.
>
>A search of his Jaguar uncovered 28 packets of Homebase doorknobs and a map
>highlighting 300 store locations in the North of England and the Midlands. A
>till roll was found by officers at his home.
>
>Castle was again released on bail and went on the run. He was eventually
>arrested as he got out of a hired BMW X5 on a car park in the village of Burton
>Joyce, near Nottingham, in February 2008.
>
>A week later, Rogers, 47, of Chad Gardens, Nottingham was sentenced to 12 months
>in jail, suspended for two years, at Preston Crown Court for money laundering.
>
>Ian Whitehurst, defending, said Castle now wanted to start a new life.
>
>"He has an appalling set of antecedents and he admits he has wasted his life,"
>said Mr Whitehurst.
>
>Refunds policy changed
>
>Lancashire police said Castle continues to be investigated by Nottinghamshire
>Police regarding a number of separate deception offences.
>
>Despite the attention on Castle, Det Con Dot Walker, of Lancashire Police, said
>his ex-partner also played a part in the con.
>
>"She was spending on a massive scale at places such as Harrods and Claridges in
>London," said Ms Walker.
>
>"Castle and Rogers have lived the high life for many years, living off the
>proceeds of crime."
>
>Both are now subject to confiscation investigations under the Proceeds of Crime
>Act, Mrs Walker added.
>
>Welcoming the conviction, a B&Q spokesperson said: "Since this fraud was
>initially detected we have substantially changed our refunds policy, which makes
>replicating this kind of fraudulent activity much more difficult.
>
>"We continue to take fraud and all kinds of theft extremely seriously and
>co-operate with the authorities wherever we can."
>
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/7540972.stm
>
>2 years for the five fingered discount and yet banned from a pub for murder..
>
>This is what liberal legal laws lead to... 
>
>What say you now?
>
>Ray

FFS!! I'v constantly challenged those that I call stupid moronic liberals to
engage me in debate to defend the moronic "restorative justice" Vs REAL
JUSTICE!! as expressed by me!  

And they run like the lemmings I think they are...  Or sheep or rabbits... Which
ever is your most favorite cowardly furry manimal!!! 

It's dead obvious to me and anyone reading this with an open mind that without
their liberal talking points my political opponents can't even mount a half
assed defense of liberal thought nevermind engage in meaningful debate with me a
confirmed Conservative who mocks them and laughs at their pathetic useless
defense....

The next election is a no-brainer... McCain President... There can be no
argument!  Liberals have given up... Cant' even defend their own "lord
Obama"....

I'm laughing already!!!

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:3m4e94l1ase57c4j1kgqeaq2v25036850u@4ax.com...
>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub was 
>a
> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>
> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina Flaherty 
> with a
> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>
> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>
> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him 
> inside
> his home during opening hours.
>
> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the 
> city's
> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of 
> culpable
> homicide.
>
> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under 
> normal
> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double 
> figures.
>
> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. It 
> is
> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be 
> released
> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
> condition.
>
> The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
> significant physical and mental decline
> Donald MacLeod
> Defence QC
> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a 
> sentence
> that restricts your liberty.
>
> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy 
> her
> relatives.
>
> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a 
> prison
> sentence which will not last long."
>
> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no recollection 
> of the
> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>
> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no 
> ghosts
> running about the house who would have done that."
>
> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court paints 
> a
> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>
> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>
> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very 
> unwell.
>
> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this was 
> flatly
> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>
> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year 
> old
> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm... 
> Wonder
> if he'll be banned from a pub...

Once again a disgusting self-styled conservative contrives to use yet 
another tragedy for political capital - and then to compare the sad actions 
of an elderly man suffering from serious mental health issues with the 
psychopatic mass-murderers of Nazi Germany is plumbing the depths of 
depravity.

That 95 year old Nazi wasn't 95 when he did what he did - he was in the 
prime of his physical and mental health and he didn't murder one person in a 
fit of mental illness - he murdered millions.  That 95 year old Nazi lined 
up children, thousands of them at a time, stripped them naked, led them to 
open pits where they could see what had already happened to others, and 
machine-gunned them pitilessly, heartlessly, mercilessly.  Then he went on 
to the next town, the next village and did it all over again, for years.

Read the fucking articles that you post, make an effort to understand what's 
going on, see that the poor man is beyond help, beyond punishment, but not 
beyond mercy, pity and understanding.

Stupid conservatives, no thought, no heart - but can really, like feel, for 
poor persecuted Nazis.

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:15:57 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
 wrote:

>
>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
>news:3m4e94l1ase57c4j1kgqeaq2v25036850u@4ax.com...
>>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub was 
>>a
>> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>>
>> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina Flaherty 
>> with a
>> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>>
>> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>>
>> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him 
>> inside
>> his home during opening hours.
>>
>> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the 
>> city's
>> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of 
>> culpable
>> homicide.
>>
>> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under 
>> normal
>> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double 
>> figures.
>>
>> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. It 
>> is
>> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be 
>> released
>> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
>> condition.
>>
>> The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
>> significant physical and mental decline
>> Donald MacLeod
>> Defence QC
>> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a 
>> sentence
>> that restricts your liberty.
>>
>> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy 
>> her
>> relatives.
>>
>> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a 
>> prison
>> sentence which will not last long."
>>
>> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no recollection 
>> of the
>> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>>
>> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no 
>> ghosts
>> running about the house who would have done that."
>>
>> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court paints 
>> a
>> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>>
>> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
>> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>>
>> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very 
>> unwell.
>>
>> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this was 
>> flatly
>> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>>
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>>
>> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year 
>> old
>> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm... 
>> Wonder
>> if he'll be banned from a pub...
>
>Once again a disgusting self-styled conservative contrives to use yet 
>another tragedy for political capital - and then to compare the sad actions 
>of an elderly man suffering from serious mental health issues with the 
>psychopatic mass-murderers of Nazi Germany is plumbing the depths of 
>depravity.
>
>That 95 year old Nazi wasn't 95 when he did what he did - he was in the 
>prime of his physical and mental health and he didn't murder one person in a 
>fit of mental illness - he murdered millions. 

Remember that word "alleged" and remember the liberal chant of "proof"!! Your a
fool!  a dupe a lemming...  Your a dope if you bought this thing without
thinking about it...  Nevermind!  :)


>That 95 year old Nazi lined 

Alleged!  I told you to remember that word...   There is no conviction... it's
simply alleged...  But your socialist brainwashing let you to belive that it
meant "guilt"... I pity you liberals... morons... thinking morons..  Always
being us thinking Conservatives...   Never mind!  \

>up children, thousands of them at a time, stripped them naked, led them to 
>open pits where they could see what had already happened to others, and 
>machine-gunned them pitilessly, heartlessly, mercilessly.  Then he went on 
>to the next town, the next village and did it all over again, for years.
>

Proof is erm... two old to include...   
He's 95...  

I find it fancyful that liberals like you defend mass murderers and yet you try
to ....  Oh... You know...  


>Read the fucking articles that you post, make an effort to understand what's 
>going on, see that the poor man is beyond help, beyond punishment, but not 
>beyond mercy, pity and understanding.
>

95 years old...  read that you stupid moronic liberal and think about it... 

>Stupid conservatives, no thought, no heart - but can really, like feel, for 
>poor persecuted Nazis. 


Liberals are so stupid they should get a free bus pass... Handicapped people
deserve it...

Ray
(Conservative and damn proud)


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:30:48 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
 wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
> wrote:

>>The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the city's
>>Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of culpable
>>homicide.

>>"He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this was flatly
>>rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."

>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm

>2 years for the five fingered discount and yet banned from a pub for murder..

He was cleared of murder if you actually read the article.

On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:42:53 +0100, mcp@nildram.co.uk wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:30:48 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>> wrote:
>
>>>The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the city's
>>>Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of culpable
>>>homicide.
>
>>>"He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this was flatly
>>>rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>
>>2 years for the five fingered discount and yet banned from a pub for murder..
>
>He was cleared of murder if you actually read the article.

Which part of "Edward Flaherty, 74, was

 *******convicted*** of strangling 69-year-old Ina Flaherty with a tie******

 after she refused to give him money to go out drinking."

Didn't you understand?

Ray

 

---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:pohe94pbt5n4lr0t8pl82t4hsqfflenonu@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:15:57 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>news:3m4e94l1ase57c4j1kgqeaq2v25036850u@4ax.com...
>>>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub 
>>>was
>>>a
>>> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>>>
>>> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina 
>>> Flaherty
>>> with a
>>> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>>>
>>> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>>>
>>> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him
>>> inside
>>> his home during opening hours.
>>>
>>> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the
>>> city's
>>> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of
>>> culpable
>>> homicide.
>>>
>>> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under
>>> normal
>>> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double
>>> figures.
>>>
>>> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. 
>>> It
>>> is
>>> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be
>>> released
>>> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
>>> condition.
>>>
>>> The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
>>> significant physical and mental decline
>>> Donald MacLeod
>>> Defence QC
>>> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a
>>> sentence
>>> that restricts your liberty.
>>>
>>> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy
>>> her
>>> relatives.
>>>
>>> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a
>>> prison
>>> sentence which will not last long."
>>>
>>> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no 
>>> recollection
>>> of the
>>> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>>>
>>> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no
>>> ghosts
>>> running about the house who would have done that."
>>>
>>> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court 
>>> paints
>>> a
>>> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>>>
>>> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
>>> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>>>
>>> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very
>>> unwell.
>>>
>>> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this 
>>> was
>>> flatly
>>> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>>>
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>>>
>>> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 
>>> year
>>> old
>>> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...
>>> Wonder
>>> if he'll be banned from a pub...
>>
>>Once again a disgusting self-styled conservative contrives to use yet
>>another tragedy for political capital - and then to compare the sad 
>>actions
>>of an elderly man suffering from serious mental health issues with the
>>psychopatic mass-murderers of Nazi Germany is plumbing the depths of
>>depravity.
>>
>>That 95 year old Nazi wasn't 95 when he did what he did - he was in the
>>prime of his physical and mental health and he didn't murder one person in 
>>a
>>fit of mental illness - he murdered millions.
>
> Remember that word "alleged" and remember the liberal chant of "proof"!! 
> Your a
> fool!  a dupe a lemming...  Your a dope if you bought this thing without
> thinking about it...  Nevermind!  :)

Nobody is charged with war crimes lightly, nobody is charged without proof.

>>That 95 year old Nazi lined
>
> Alleged!  I told you to remember that word...   There is no conviction... 
> it's
> simply alleged...  But your socialist brainwashing let you to belive that 
> it
> meant "guilt"... I pity you liberals... morons... thinking morons.. 
> Always
> being us thinking Conservatives...   Never mind!  \

Name the man then - let's all have a look at this poor victim of injustice 
that you care so much about.  I dare you.

>>up children, thousands of them at a time, stripped them naked, led them to
>>open pits where they could see what had already happened to others, and
>>machine-gunned them pitilessly, heartlessly, mercilessly.  Then he went on
>>to the next town, the next village and did it all over again, for years.
>>
>
> Proof is erm... two old to include...
> He's 95...

How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden have to be 
before you think that they should stop searching for him?

> I find it fancyful that liberals like you defend mass murderers and yet 
> you try
> to ....  Oh... You know...

Which mass murderers would that be, you lying pisshead?  Oh and look up 
fanciful while you're at it.

>>Read the fucking articles that you post, make an effort to understand 
>>what's
>>going on, see that the poor man is beyond help, beyond punishment, but not
>>beyond mercy, pity and understanding.
>>
>
> 95 years old...  read that you stupid moronic liberal and think about 
> it...

So what, so fuckin what?  You're the one whingeing about an elderly man 
being let off, and now whingeing about another not being let off.  Which do 
you want?

>>Stupid conservatives, no thought, no heart - but can really, like feel, 
>>for
>>poor persecuted Nazis.
>
>
> Liberals are so stupid they should get a free bus pass... Handicapped 
> people
> deserve it...

Oh good grief - this from a full grown man.

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:15:57 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
 wrote:

>
>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
>news:3m4e94l1ase57c4j1kgqeaq2v25036850u@4ax.com...
>>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub was 
>>a
>> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>>
>> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina Flaherty 
>> with a
>> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>>
>> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>>
>> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him 
>> inside
>> his home during opening hours.
>>
>> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the 
>> city's
>> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of 
>> culpable
>> homicide.
>>
>> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under 
>> normal
>> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double 
>> figures.
>>
>> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. It 
>> is
>> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be 
>> released
>> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
>> condition.
>>
>> The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
>> significant physical and mental decline
>> Donald MacLeod
>> Defence QC
>> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a 
>> sentence
>> that restricts your liberty.
>>
>> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy 
>> her
>> relatives.
>>
>> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a 
>> prison
>> sentence which will not last long."
>>
>> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no recollection 
>> of the
>> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>>
>> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no 
>> ghosts
>> running about the house who would have done that."
>>
>> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court paints 
>> a
>> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>>
>> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
>> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>>
>> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very 
>> unwell.
>>
>> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this was 
>> flatly
>> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>>
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>>
>> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year 
>> old
>> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm... 
>> Wonder
>> if he'll be banned from a pub...
>
>Once again a disgusting self-styled conservative contrives to use yet 
>another tragedy for political capital - and then to compare the sad actions 
>of an elderly man suffering from serious mental health issues with the 
>psychopatic mass-murderers of Nazi Germany is plumbing the depths of 
>depravity.
>
>That 95 year old Nazi wasn't 95 when he did what he did - he was in the 
>prime of his physical and mental health and he didn't murder one person in a 
>fit of mental illness - he murdered millions.  That 95 year old Nazi lined 
>up children, thousands of them at a time, stripped them naked, led them to 
>open pits where they could see what had already happened to others, and 
>machine-gunned them pitilessly, heartlessly, mercilessly.  Then he went on 
>to the next town, the next village and did it all over again, for years.
>
>Read the fucking articles that you post, make an effort to understand what's 
>going on, see that the poor man is beyond help, beyond punishment, but not 
>beyond mercy, pity and understanding.
>
>Stupid conservatives, no thought, no heart - but can really, like feel, for 
>poor persecuted Nazis. 

But, but...isn't it lack of thought that Ray is accusing all liberals
of?

ffs!

Neolithic

"Neolithic"  wrote in message 
news:dp3g94pr5tjbmo2jo06e64f9lutvhdcos6@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:15:57 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>news:3m4e94l1ase57c4j1kgqeaq2v25036850u@4ax.com...
>>>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub 
>>>was
>>>a
>>> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>>>
>>> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina 
>>> Flaherty
>>> with a
>>> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>>>
>>> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>>>
>>> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him
>>> inside
>>> his home during opening hours.
>>>
>>> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the
>>> city's
>>> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of
>>> culpable
>>> homicide.
>>>
>>> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under
>>> normal
>>> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double
>>> figures.
>>>
>>> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. 
>>> It
>>> is
>>> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be
>>> released
>>> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
>>> condition.
>>>
>>> The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
>>> significant physical and mental decline
>>> Donald MacLeod
>>> Defence QC
>>> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a
>>> sentence
>>> that restricts your liberty.
>>>
>>> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy
>>> her
>>> relatives.
>>>
>>> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a
>>> prison
>>> sentence which will not last long."
>>>
>>> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no 
>>> recollection
>>> of the
>>> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>>>
>>> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no
>>> ghosts
>>> running about the house who would have done that."
>>>
>>> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court 
>>> paints
>>> a
>>> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>>>
>>> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
>>> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>>>
>>> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very
>>> unwell.
>>>
>>> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this 
>>> was
>>> flatly
>>> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>>>
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>>>
>>> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 
>>> year
>>> old
>>> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...
>>> Wonder
>>> if he'll be banned from a pub...
>>
>>Once again a disgusting self-styled conservative contrives to use yet
>>another tragedy for political capital - and then to compare the sad 
>>actions
>>of an elderly man suffering from serious mental health issues with the
>>psychopatic mass-murderers of Nazi Germany is plumbing the depths of
>>depravity.
>>
>>That 95 year old Nazi wasn't 95 when he did what he did - he was in the
>>prime of his physical and mental health and he didn't murder one person in 
>>a
>>fit of mental illness - he murdered millions.  That 95 year old Nazi lined
>>up children, thousands of them at a time, stripped them naked, led them to
>>open pits where they could see what had already happened to others, and
>>machine-gunned them pitilessly, heartlessly, mercilessly.  Then he went on
>>to the next town, the next village and did it all over again, for years.
>>
>>Read the fucking articles that you post, make an effort to understand 
>>what's
>>going on, see that the poor man is beyond help, beyond punishment, but not
>>beyond mercy, pity and understanding.
>>
>>Stupid conservatives, no thought, no heart - but can really, like feel, 
>>for
>>poor persecuted Nazis.
>
> But, but...isn't it lack of thought that Ray is accusing all liberals
> of?

That's nothing, wait until you see his fulminations on the nefarious 
machinations of the liberal hang 'em and flog 'em brigade.

"Sophistry Made Simple"  wrote in message 
news:FbOlk.26604$j7.472241@news.indigo.ie...
>
> "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
> news:pohe94pbt5n4lr0t8pl82t4hsqfflenonu@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:15:57 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>>news:3m4e94l1ase57c4j1kgqeaq2v25036850u@4ax.com...
>>>>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub 
>>>>was
>>>>a
>>>> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>>>>
>>>> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina 
>>>> Flaherty
>>>> with a
>>>> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>>>>
>>>> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>>>>
>>>> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him
>>>> inside
>>>> his home during opening hours.
>>>>
>>>> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the
>>>> city's
>>>> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of
>>>> culpable
>>>> homicide.
>>>>
>>>> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under
>>>> normal
>>>> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double
>>>> figures.
>>>>
>>>> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. 
>>>> It
>>>> is
>>>> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be
>>>> released
>>>> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
>>>> condition.
>>>>
>>>> The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
>>>> significant physical and mental decline
>>>> Donald MacLeod
>>>> Defence QC
>>>> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a
>>>> sentence
>>>> that restricts your liberty.
>>>>
>>>> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy
>>>> her
>>>> relatives.
>>>>
>>>> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a
>>>> prison
>>>> sentence which will not last long."
>>>>
>>>> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no 
>>>> recollection
>>>> of the
>>>> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>>>>
>>>> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no
>>>> ghosts
>>>> running about the house who would have done that."
>>>>
>>>> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court 
>>>> paints
>>>> a
>>>> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>>>>
>>>> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
>>>> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>>>>
>>>> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is 
>>>> very
>>>> unwell.
>>>>
>>>> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this 
>>>> was
>>>> flatly
>>>> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>>>>
>>>> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 
>>>> year
>>>> old
>>>> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...
>>>> Wonder
>>>> if he'll be banned from a pub...
>>>
>>>Once again a disgusting self-styled conservative contrives to use yet
>>>another tragedy for political capital - and then to compare the sad 
>>>actions
>>>of an elderly man suffering from serious mental health issues with the
>>>psychopatic mass-murderers of Nazi Germany is plumbing the depths of
>>>depravity.
>>>
>>>That 95 year old Nazi wasn't 95 when he did what he did - he was in the
>>>prime of his physical and mental health and he didn't murder one person 
>>>in a
>>>fit of mental illness - he murdered millions.
>>
>> Remember that word "alleged" and remember the liberal chant of "proof"!! 
>> Your a
>> fool!  a dupe a lemming...  Your a dope if you bought this thing without
>> thinking about it...  Nevermind!  :)
>
> Nobody is charged with war crimes lightly, nobody is charged without 
> proof.
>
>>>That 95 year old Nazi lined
>>
>> Alleged!  I told you to remember that word...   There is no conviction... 
>> it's
>> simply alleged...  But your socialist brainwashing let you to belive that 
>> it
>> meant "guilt"... I pity you liberals... morons... thinking morons.. 
>> Always
>> being us thinking Conservatives...   Never mind!  \
>
> Name the man then - let's all have a look at this poor victim of injustice 
> that you care so much about.  I dare you.
>
>>>up children, thousands of them at a time, stripped them naked, led them 
>>>to
>>>open pits where they could see what had already happened to others, and
>>>machine-gunned them pitilessly, heartlessly, mercilessly.  Then he went 
>>>on
>>>to the next town, the next village and did it all over again, for years.
>>>
>>
>> Proof is erm... two old to include...
>> He's 95...
>
> How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden have to be 
> before you think that they should stop searching for him?
>
>> I find it fancyful that liberals like you defend mass murderers and yet 
>> you try
>> to ....  Oh... You know...
>
> Which mass murderers would that be, you lying pisshead?  Oh and look up 
> fanciful while you're at it.
>
>>>Read the fucking articles that you post, make an effort to understand 
>>>what's
>>>going on, see that the poor man is beyond help, beyond punishment, but 
>>>not
>>>beyond mercy, pity and understanding.
>>>
>>
>> 95 years old...  read that you stupid moronic liberal and think about 
>> it...
>
> So what, so fuckin what?  You're the one whingeing about an elderly man 
> being let off, and now whingeing about another not being let off.  Which 
> do you want?
>
>>>Stupid conservatives, no thought, no heart - but can really, like feel, 
>>>for
>>>poor persecuted Nazis.
>>
>>
>> Liberals are so stupid they should get a free bus pass... Handicapped 
>> people
>> deserve it...
>
> Oh good grief - this from a full grown man.

Well he is not really a grown man, he is a dwarf really and he is a well 
known associate of gerry adams and as such dont say to much to him.
He is the only person on the net who has a degree in cut and paste LOL, in 
fact he is a frigging looney really.
>

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:igae945puaqdldtfbguerbjhvh3nf6bb1j@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:10:59 +0100, "David C Jones"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>news:3m4e94l1ase57c4j1kgqeaq2v25036850u@4ax.com...
>>>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub 
>>>was
>>>a
>>> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>>>
>>> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina 
>>> Flaherty
>>> with a
>>> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>>>
>>> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>>>
>>> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him
>>> inside
>>> his home during opening hours.
>>>
>>> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the
>>> city's
>>> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of
>>> culpable
>>> homicide.
>>>
>>> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under
>>> normal
>>> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double
>>> figures.
>>>
>>> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. 
>>> It
>>> is
>>> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be
>>> released
>>> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
>>> condition.
>>>
>>> The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
>>> significant physical and mental decline
>>> Donald MacLeod
>>> Defence QC
>>> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a
>>> sentence
>>> that restricts your liberty.
>>>
>>> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy
>>> her
>>> relatives.
>>>
>>> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a
>>> prison
>>> sentence which will not last long."
>>>
>>> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no 
>>> recollection
>>> of the
>>> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>>>
>>> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no
>>> ghosts
>>> running about the house who would have done that."
>>>
>>> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court 
>>> paints
>>> a
>>> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>>>
>>> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
>>> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>>>
>>> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very
>>> unwell.
>>>
>>> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this 
>>> was
>>> flatly
>>> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>>>
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>>>
>>> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 
>>> year
>>> old
>>> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...
>>Dont worry ray, just do a search and cut and paste as you normally do, you
>>boring prat
>>
>> Hmmm...  Wonder
>
> Why not try it your self... You'd look less of a prat and people might 
> actually
> think you have a brain inside your head!!!  Imagine that!!!
>
> Now... Do you have an opinion about this murderous bastard getting banned 
> from a
> pub as punishment?  FFS!!  Even YOU must think this is taking the piss? 
> No?
>

Well ray not rea;;y, each case needs to be looked at individually and that 
is what has happened here, so its got fuck all to do with you you moronic 
prick, now go back to your hole and be a good republican and fester away.
> Ray
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:01:34 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
 wrote:

>
>"Neolithic"  wrote in message 
>news:dp3g94pr5tjbmo2jo06e64f9lutvhdcos6@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:15:57 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>>news:3m4e94l1ase57c4j1kgqeaq2v25036850u@4ax.com...
>>>>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub 
>>>>was
>>>>a
>>>> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>>>>
>>>> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina 
>>>> Flaherty
>>>> with a
>>>> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>>>>
>>>> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>>>>
>>>> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him
>>>> inside
>>>> his home during opening hours.
>>>>
>>>> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the
>>>> city's
>>>> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of
>>>> culpable
>>>> homicide.
>>>>
>>>> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under
>>>> normal
>>>> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double
>>>> figures.
>>>>
>>>> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. 
>>>> It
>>>> is
>>>> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be
>>>> released
>>>> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
>>>> condition.
>>>>
>>>> The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
>>>> significant physical and mental decline
>>>> Donald MacLeod
>>>> Defence QC
>>>> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a
>>>> sentence
>>>> that restricts your liberty.
>>>>
>>>> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy
>>>> her
>>>> relatives.
>>>>
>>>> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a
>>>> prison
>>>> sentence which will not last long."
>>>>
>>>> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no 
>>>> recollection
>>>> of the
>>>> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>>>>
>>>> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no
>>>> ghosts
>>>> running about the house who would have done that."
>>>>
>>>> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court 
>>>> paints
>>>> a
>>>> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>>>>
>>>> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
>>>> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>>>>
>>>> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very
>>>> unwell.
>>>>
>>>> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this 
>>>> was
>>>> flatly
>>>> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>>>>
>>>> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 
>>>> year
>>>> old
>>>> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...
>>>> Wonder
>>>> if he'll be banned from a pub...
>>>
>>>Once again a disgusting self-styled conservative contrives to use yet
>>>another tragedy for political capital - and then to compare the sad 
>>>actions
>>>of an elderly man suffering from serious mental health issues with the
>>>psychopatic mass-murderers of Nazi Germany is plumbing the depths of
>>>depravity.
>>>
>>>That 95 year old Nazi wasn't 95 when he did what he did - he was in the
>>>prime of his physical and mental health and he didn't murder one person in 
>>>a
>>>fit of mental illness - he murdered millions.  That 95 year old Nazi lined
>>>up children, thousands of them at a time, stripped them naked, led them to
>>>open pits where they could see what had already happened to others, and
>>>machine-gunned them pitilessly, heartlessly, mercilessly.  Then he went on
>>>to the next town, the next village and did it all over again, for years.
>>>
>>>Read the fucking articles that you post, make an effort to understand 
>>>what's
>>>going on, see that the poor man is beyond help, beyond punishment, but not
>>>beyond mercy, pity and understanding.
>>>
>>>Stupid conservatives, no thought, no heart - but can really, like feel, 
>>>for
>>>poor persecuted Nazis.
>>
>> But, but...isn't it lack of thought that Ray is accusing all liberals
>> of?
>
>That's nothing, wait until you see his fulminations on the nefarious 
>machinations of the liberal hang 'em and flog 'em brigade. 

Surely you jest good sir.

Neolithic

On Aug 4, 7:44 am, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>" 
wrote:
> A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub was a
> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>
> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina Flaherty with a
> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>
> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>
> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him inside
> his home during opening hours.
>
> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the city's
> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of culpable
> homicide.
>
> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under normal
> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double figures.
>
> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. It is
> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be released
> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
> condition.
>
>         The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
> significant physical and mental decline
> Donald MacLeod
> Defence QC
> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a sentence
> that restricts your liberty.
>
> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy her
> relatives.
>
> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a prison
> sentence which will not last long."
>
> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no recollection of the
> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>
> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no ghosts
> running about the house who would have done that."
>
> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court paints a
> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>
> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>
> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very unwell.
>
> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this was flatly
> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/75409...
>
> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
> if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>
> Ray
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

 A remake of an old song.. "Please Don't Be Beastly To the Vermin"..

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
 wrote:

>
>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
>news:pohe94pbt5n4lr0t8pl82t4hsqfflenonu@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:15:57 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>>news:3m4e94l1ase57c4j1kgqeaq2v25036850u@4ax.com...
>>>>A judge has told a Glasgow pensioner that stopping him going to the pub 
>>>>was
>>>>a
>>>> "more meaningful" sentence than a prison term for killing his wife.
>>>>
>>>> Edward Flaherty, 74, was convicted of strangling 69-year-old Ina 
>>>> Flaherty
>>>> with a
>>>> tie after she refused to give him money to go out drinking.
>>>>
>>>> Lord Matthews said Flaherty's dementia made him unsuited to prison.
>>>>
>>>> He imposed a year-long restriction of liberty order which will keep him
>>>> inside
>>>> his home during opening hours.
>>>>
>>>> The pensioner will be tagged and banned from leaving his home in the
>>>> city's
>>>> Drygate area between 1100 and 2300 BST after being found guilty of
>>>> culpable
>>>> homicide.
>>>>
>>>> At the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Matthews told Flaherty that under
>>>> normal
>>>> circumstances he would have been given a prison sentence in double
>>>> figures.
>>>>
>>>> He said: "I have read and considered a number of reports from experts. 
>>>> It
>>>> is
>>>> plain to me that if I were to impose that sort of sentence you would be
>>>> released
>>>> in a very short time because prison would not be able to cope with your
>>>> condition.
>>>>
>>>> The report prepared for the court paints a picture of a man in
>>>> significant physical and mental decline
>>>> Donald MacLeod
>>>> Defence QC
>>>> "Sentencing you would just be a token gesture. I am anxious to impose a
>>>> sentence
>>>> that restricts your liberty.
>>>>
>>>> "You still go to the pub where you went with your wife. That must annoy
>>>> her
>>>> relatives.
>>>>
>>>> "Not being able to go there will be a more meaningful disposal than a
>>>> prison
>>>> sentence which will not last long."
>>>>
>>>> During the trial the jury heard that Flaherty said he had no 
>>>> recollection
>>>> of the
>>>> moment he throttled his wife of 52 years in April last year.
>>>>
>>>> When asked who killed her, he said: "It must have been me. There are no
>>>> ghosts
>>>> running about the house who would have done that."
>>>>
>>>> Defence QC Donald MacLeod said: "The report prepared for the court 
>>>> paints
>>>> a
>>>> picture of a man in significant physical and mental decline.
>>>>
>>>> "There is a clear diagnosis of dementia setting in. It is a progressive
>>>> condition and ultimately he will need 24-hour care.
>>>>
>>>> "I am deeply conscious there has been a death here, but this man is very
>>>> unwell.
>>>>
>>>> "He was always willing to plead guilty to culpable homicide, but this 
>>>> was
>>>> flatly
>>>> rejected by the Crown and that is why a trial was necessary."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7540994.stm
>>>>
>>>> Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 
>>>> year
>>>> old
>>>> being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...
>>>> Wonder
>>>> if he'll be banned from a pub...
>>>
>>>Once again a disgusting self-styled conservative contrives to use yet
>>>another tragedy for political capital - and then to compare the sad 
>>>actions
>>>of an elderly man suffering from serious mental health issues with the
>>>psychopatic mass-murderers of Nazi Germany is plumbing the depths of
>>>depravity.
>>>
>>>That 95 year old Nazi wasn't 95 when he did what he did - he was in the
>>>prime of his physical and mental health and he didn't murder one person in 
>>>a
>>>fit of mental illness - he murdered millions.
>>
>> Remember that word "alleged" and remember the liberal chant of "proof"!! 
>> Your a
>> fool!  a dupe a lemming...  Your a dope if you bought this thing without
>> thinking about it...  Nevermind!  :)
>
>Nobody is charged with war crimes lightly, nobody is charged without proof.
>
>>>That 95 year old Nazi lined
>>
>> Alleged!  I told you to remember that word...   There is no conviction... 
>> it's
>> simply alleged...  But your socialist brainwashing let you to belive that 
>> it
>> meant "guilt"... I pity you liberals... morons... thinking morons.. 
>> Always
>> being us thinking Conservatives...   Never mind!  \
>
>Name the man then - let's all have a look at this poor victim of injustice 
>that you care so much about.  I dare you.
>
>>>up children, thousands of them at a time, stripped them naked, led them to
>>>open pits where they could see what had already happened to others, and
>>>machine-gunned them pitilessly, heartlessly, mercilessly.  Then he went on
>>>to the next town, the next village and did it all over again, for years.
>>>
>>
>> Proof is erm... two old to include...
>> He's 95...
>
>How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden have to be 
>before you think that they should stop searching for him?
>

It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of time that has
passed since the alleged events took place...  


>> I find it fancyful that liberals like you defend mass murderers and yet 
>> you try
>> to ....  Oh... You know...
>
>Which mass murderers would that be, you lying pisshead?  Oh and look up 
>fanciful while you're at it.
>
>>>Read the fucking articles that you post, make an effort to understand 
>>>what's
>>>going on, see that the poor man is beyond help, beyond punishment, but not
>>>beyond mercy, pity and understanding.
>>>
>>
>> 95 years old...  read that you stupid moronic liberal and think about 
>> it...
>
>So what, so fuckin what?  You're the one whingeing about an elderly man 
>being let off, and now whingeing about another not being let off.  Which do 
>you want?
>

It's the time that has passed since the events and the impossibility of a robust
defense that is at issue not the age of the person accused...

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
 wrote:


>
>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
>if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>
>Ray
>
>

Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
deserve a freebie? 
No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
would result in her death. The court decided that he was not a threat
to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
not be in the best interest of the old guy. 

I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
upon.
I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
nor the relatives of the victim.

max.it (the orange cage)

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
>>if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>>
>>Ray
>>
>>
>
>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>deserve a freebie? 

Bad joke...

>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>would result in her death.

No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to knock down
someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do that...

> The court decided that he was not a threat
>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>not be in the best interest of the old guy. 
>
>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>upon.
>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>nor the relatives of the victim.
>
>max.it (the orange cage)

The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is unacceptable
behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he wants to
his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
 wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>>>
>>>Ray
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>deserve a freebie? 
>
>Bad joke...
>
>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>would result in her death.
>
>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to knock down
>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do that...

Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.

>
>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>not be in the best interest of the old guy. 
>>
>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>upon.
>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>
>>max.it (the orange cage)
>
>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is unacceptable
>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he wants to
>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>
>Ray

The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to? 
It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
carry out a murder under this defence.
He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
place. 

max.it (the orange cage)

On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>>>>
>>>>Ray
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>deserve a freebie? 
>>
>>Bad joke...
>>
>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>would result in her death.
>>
>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to knock down
>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do that...
>
>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>
>>
>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy. 
>>>
>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>upon.
>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>
>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>
>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is unacceptable
>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he wants to
>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>
>>Ray
>
>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to? 
>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>carry out a murder under this defence.
>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>place. 
>
>max.it (the orange cage)

This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I understand
your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the wall sort
of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the criminal...  My
aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to jail... He
should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight and
narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal nonsense...  

Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a shoplifter...

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>  wrote:
>>
>>How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden have to be
>>before you think that they should stop searching for him?
>>
>
> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of time 
> that has
> passed since the alleged events took place...

Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only too 
happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged crimes, and 
retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.  You are all heart.

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:4shm9455rvqj17hhmtum6fot5m0sgj4jv6@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 
>>>>>year old
>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm... 
>>>>>Wonder
>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...
>>>>>
>>>>>Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>>deserve a freebie?
>>>
>>>Bad joke...
>>>
>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>>would result in her death.
>>>
>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to 
>>>knock down
>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do 
>>>that...
>>
>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>>
>>>
>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy.
>>>>
>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>>upon.
>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>>
>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>
>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is 
>>>unacceptable
>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he 
>>>wants to
>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>>
>>>Ray
>>
>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to?
>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>>carry out a murder under this defence.
>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>>place.
>>
>>max.it (the orange cage)
>
> This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I 
> understand
> your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the wall 
> sort
> of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the 
> criminal...  My
> aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to jail... 
> He
> should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight and
> narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal 
> nonsense...
>
> Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a 
> shoplifter...

I remember Pierrepoint finally realising that capital punishment was futile 
simply because it did nothing to deter the people that he tended to hang - 
sad squalid little murders committed in fits of passion, insanity or 
drunkenness.  The real criminals, the real professional criminals, repeat 
offenders every one of them, simply didn't do things like that.

Of course, I'm assuming that Ray keeps a special get out  jail card for mass 
murderers past their shelf life, and of course them that did it for the Old 
Sod.

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:57:55 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
 wrote:

>
>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
>news:4shm9455rvqj17hhmtum6fot5m0sgj4jv6@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 
>>>>>>year old
>>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm... 
>>>>>>Wonder
>>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>>>deserve a freebie?
>>>>
>>>>Bad joke...
>>>>
>>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>>>would result in her death.
>>>>
>>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to 
>>>>knock down
>>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do 
>>>>that...
>>>
>>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>>>upon.
>>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>>>
>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>
>>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is 
>>>>unacceptable
>>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he 
>>>>wants to
>>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>>>
>>>>Ray
>>>
>>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to?
>>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>>>carry out a murder under this defence.
>>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>>>place.
>>>
>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>
>> This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I 
>> understand
>> your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the wall 
>> sort
>> of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the 
>> criminal...  My
>> aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to jail... 
>> He
>> should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight and
>> narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal 
>> nonsense...
>>
>> Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a 
>> shoplifter...
>
>I remember Pierrepoint finally realising that capital punishment was futile 
>simply because it did nothing to deter the people that he tended to hang - 
>sad squalid little murders committed in fits of passion, insanity or 
>drunkenness.  The real criminals, the real professional criminals, repeat 
>offenders every one of them, simply didn't do things like that.
>
>Of course, I'm assuming that Ray keeps a special get out  jail card for mass 
>murderers past their shelf life, and of course them that did it for the Old 
>Sod. 

Child abusers here in America now face Jessica's Law in 42 (or more) States...
That is - first offense - 25 years...  No nonsense...  Unless your in Vermont
and a few other states where you'll get a slap on the wrist by Liberal judges...

Tell me this is NOT a deterrent to child molesting scum of the earth bastards?

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
 wrote:

>
>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
>news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden have to be
>>>before you think that they should stop searching for him?
>>>
>>
>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of time 
>> that has
>> passed since the alleged events took place...
>
>Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only too 
>happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged crimes, and 
>retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.  You are all heart. 

Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either way... You
know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened 63 or more years ago...
What I'm questioning is the ability of ANYONE to mount a defence of some alleged
incident back then...     That is why the whole idea of still hunting for
"nazis" is now nothing more then revenge and not justice at all...

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:aelm9415dt3esi3fb7vlo6oo0p4rbe6d2b@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden have to 
>>>>be
>>>>before you think that they should stop searching for him?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of time
>>> that has
>>> passed since the alleged events took place...
>>
>>Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only too
>>happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged crimes, 
>>and
>>retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.  You are all 
>>heart.
>
> Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either way... 
> You
> know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened 63 or more years 
> ago...
> What I'm questioning is the ability of ANYONE to mount a defence of some 
> alleged
> incident back then...     That is why the whole idea of still hunting for
> "nazis" is now nothing more then revenge and not justice at all...

No it isn't - it's all about justice.  It's not about some alleged incident, 
they are tried and convicted if found guilty.  All above board, even if they 
don't get nailed to the wall as you'd like them to be.

So you'll be happy enough for bin Laden to walk free if he makes it to 2051 
or so, say another 40 years - would that be enough?

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:54:40 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
 wrote:

>
>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
>news:aelm9415dt3esi3fb7vlo6oo0p4rbe6d2b@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>>news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden have to 
>>>>>be
>>>>>before you think that they should stop searching for him?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of time
>>>> that has
>>>> passed since the alleged events took place...
>>>
>>>Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only too
>>>happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged crimes, 
>>>and
>>>retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.  You are all 
>>>heart.
>>
>> Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either way... 
>> You
>> know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened 63 or more years 
>> ago...
>> What I'm questioning is the ability of ANYONE to mount a defence of some 
>> alleged
>> incident back then...     That is why the whole idea of still hunting for
>> "nazis" is now nothing more then revenge and not justice at all...
>
>No it isn't - it's all about justice. 

A 95 year old man is brought before a court about something that allegedly
happed some 64 or more years ago...  And you call this "justice"?  Knowing full
well how hard it would be to mount a robust defense?


> It's not about some alleged incident, 
>they are tried and convicted if found guilty.

Isn't it always alleged until conviction?  Or do you find trials just a pain on
the arse and would prefer to hang him from the nearest tree???

>All above board, even if they 
>don't get nailed to the wall as you'd like them to be.
>
>So you'll be happy enough for bin Laden to walk free if he makes it to 2051 
>or so, say another 40 years - would that be enough? 

We're discussing a man convicted of some sort of crime over 60 years ago and my
argument is that it's impossible to mount a robust defense because of the amount
of time gone by...  Evidence...  Witnessess... perhaps long dead...  

To proceed with such a trial is a mockery of justice and a slap in the face of
humanity.. it is pure blood lust and revenge...  And nothing more...  Which puts
them at the same level as the very nazis they claim to put to justice...  

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>> "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>> news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden
>>>> have to be before you think that they should stop searching for
>>>> him?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of
>>> time that has
>>> passed since the alleged events took place...
>>
>> Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only
>> too happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged
>> crimes, and retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.
>> You are all heart.
>
> Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either
> way... You know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened 63
> or more years ago... What I'm questioning is the ability of ANYONE to
> mount a defence of some alleged incident back then...     That is why
> the whole idea of still hunting for "nazis" is now nothing more then
> revenge and not justice at all...

So? Revenge is good. What justice did the Germans give the Jews? What 
justice did the IRA give all their victims? No, revenge is good indeed! Do 
as you would be done by!

-- 
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh.

(Glac bóg an saol agus glacfaidh an saol bóg thú).

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:23:01 +0100, "Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." 
wrote:

>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>> news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden
>>>>> have to be before you think that they should stop searching for
>>>>> him?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of
>>>> time that has
>>>> passed since the alleged events took place...
>>>
>>> Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only
>>> too happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged
>>> crimes, and retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.
>>> You are all heart.
>>
>> Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either
>> way... You know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened 63
>> or more years ago... What I'm questioning is the ability of ANYONE to
>> mount a defence of some alleged incident back then...     That is why
>> the whole idea of still hunting for "nazis" is now nothing more then
>> revenge and not justice at all...
>
>So? Revenge is good. What justice did the Germans give the Jews? What 
>justice did the IRA give all their victims? No, revenge is good indeed! Do 
>as you would be done by!

Now your just being ridiculous!

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

In article ,
 "Hal Ó Mearadhaigh."  wrote:

> Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
> > On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
> >  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
> >> news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
> >>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden
> >>>> have to be before you think that they should stop searching for
> >>>> him?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of
> >>> time that has
> >>> passed since the alleged events took place...
> >>
> >> Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only
> >> too happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged
> >> crimes, and retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.
> >> You are all heart.
> >
> > Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either
> > way... You know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened 63
> > or more years ago... What I'm questioning is the ability of ANYONE to
> > mount a defence of some alleged incident back then...     That is why
> > the whole idea of still hunting for "nazis" is now nothing more then
> > revenge and not justice at all...
> 
> So? Revenge is good. What justice did the Germans give the Jews? What 
> justice did the IRA give all their victims? No, revenge is good indeed! Do 
> as you would be done by!

Indeed, future generations need to see that there is NO stature of 
limitations on this kind of horrendous genocide, absolutely none. That 
is how you prevent them from repeating this barbarism. The civilized 
world will have its "revenge" by giving these Nazi cowards no peace 
until they pay for their crimes. Hunt them down until every last one of 
the cowardly butchers has been brought to justice.

William Clark

In article ,
 "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:

> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:57:55 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>  wrote:
> 
> >
> >"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
> >news:4shm9455rvqj17hhmtum6fot5m0sgj4jv6@4ax.com...
> >> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 
> >>>>>>year old
> >>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm... 
> >>>>>>Wonder
> >>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Ray
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
> >>>>>deserve a freebie?
> >>>>
> >>>>Bad joke...
> >>>>
> >>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
> >>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
> >>>>>would result in her death.
> >>>>
> >>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to 
> >>>>knock down
> >>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do 
> >>>>that...
> >>>
> >>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
> >>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
> >>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
> >>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
> >>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
> >>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
> >>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
> >>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
> >>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
> >>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
> >>>>>upon.
> >>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
> >>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
> >>>>
> >>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is 
> >>>>unacceptable
> >>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he 
> >>>>wants to
> >>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
> >>>>
> >>>>Ray
> >>>
> >>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to?
> >>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
> >>>carry out a murder under this defence.
> >>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
> >>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
> >>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
> >>>place.
> >>>
> >>>max.it (the orange cage)
> >>
> >> This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I 
> >> understand
> >> your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the wall 
> >> sort
> >> of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the 
> >> criminal...  My
> >> aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to jail... 
> >> He
> >> should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight and
> >> narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal 
> >> nonsense...
> >>
> >> Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a 
> >> shoplifter...
> >
> >I remember Pierrepoint finally realising that capital punishment was futile 
> >simply because it did nothing to deter the people that he tended to hang - 
> >sad squalid little murders committed in fits of passion, insanity or 
> >drunkenness.  The real criminals, the real professional criminals, repeat 
> >offenders every one of them, simply didn't do things like that.
> >
> >Of course, I'm assuming that Ray keeps a special get out  jail card for mass 
> >murderers past their shelf life, and of course them that did it for the Old 
> >Sod. 
> 
> Child abusers here in America now face Jessica's Law in 42 (or more) 
> States...
> That is - first offense - 25 years...  No nonsense...  Unless your in Vermont
> and a few other states where you'll get a slap on the wrist by Liberal 
> judges...
> 
> Tell me this is NOT a deterrent to child molesting scum of the earth 
> bastards?
> 
> Ray

Produce some statistics that show it is. Go on - I dare you.

William Clark

On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:08:40 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
 wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>>>>>
>>>>>Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>>deserve a freebie? 
>>>
>>>Bad joke...
>>>
>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>>would result in her death.
>>>
>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to knock down
>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do that...
>>
>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>>
>>>
>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy. 
>>>>
>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>>upon.
>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>>
>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>
>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is unacceptable
>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he wants to
>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>>
>>>Ray
>>
>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to? 
>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>>carry out a murder under this defence.
>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>>place. 
>>
>>max.it (the orange cage)
>
>This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I understand
>your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the wall sort
>of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the criminal...  My
>aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to jail... He
>should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight and
>narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal nonsense...  
>
>Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a shoplifter...
>
>Ray

There was no murder!! fucksake Ray read the bloody story.
Dementia is a horrible thing to deal with. The wifey probably had to
take him to the pub each day, to sit over 2 pints of heavy for 12
hours. She loved her husband so she looked after him and gave him the
chance of some communal recreation before he forgot everything.
I would like to see at what time the old guy wanted to visit the pub
on the day or night that he killed his wife.

Ray: I have been reading and responding to your posts for 10 years.
You have been right wing, racist, you have supported killers, bombers,
and terrorists. At the same time you have castigated every victim of a
news story that you thought you could make a meal of. From cheering
the murderer of young ladies in England to denouncing the terms of an
old senile man's concivtion.

The fact that you ply your trade as a web designer for Christian
organisations makes you the most disgusting little, short leg, tully
eyed dwarf cunt on the face of God's grey earth.

We all now when the wifey  has chucked you out again.
Limerick droop?

max.it (the orange cage)

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:ljlm94div45lsh4haasv6t8tin28rd2v92@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:57:55 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>news:4shm9455rvqj17hhmtum6fot5m0sgj4jv6@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95
>>>>>>>year old
>>>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial... 
>>>>>>>Hmmm...
>>>>>>>Wonder
>>>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>>>>deserve a freebie?
>>>>>
>>>>>Bad joke...
>>>>>
>>>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>>>>would result in her death.
>>>>>
>>>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to
>>>>>knock down
>>>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do
>>>>>that...
>>>>
>>>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>>>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>>>>upon.
>>>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>>
>>>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is
>>>>>unacceptable
>>>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he
>>>>>wants to
>>>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>>>>
>>>>>Ray
>>>>
>>>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to?
>>>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>>>>carry out a murder under this defence.
>>>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>>>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>>>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>>>>place.
>>>>
>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>
>>> This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I
>>> understand
>>> your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the 
>>> wall
>>> sort
>>> of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the
>>> criminal...  My
>>> aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to 
>>> jail...
>>> He
>>> should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight 
>>> and
>>> narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal
>>> nonsense...
>>>
>>> Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a
>>> shoplifter...
>>
>>I remember Pierrepoint finally realising that capital punishment was 
>>futile
>>simply because it did nothing to deter the people that he tended to hang -
>>sad squalid little murders committed in fits of passion, insanity or
>>drunkenness.  The real criminals, the real professional criminals, repeat
>>offenders every one of them, simply didn't do things like that.
>>
>>Of course, I'm assuming that Ray keeps a special get out  jail card for 
>>mass
>>murderers past their shelf life, and of course them that did it for the 
>>Old
>>Sod.
>
> Child abusers here in America now face Jessica's Law in 42 (or more) 
> States...
> That is - first offense - 25 years...  No nonsense...  Unless your in 
> Vermont
> and a few other states where you'll get a slap on the wrist by Liberal 
> judges...
>
> Tell me this is NOT a deterrent to child molesting scum of the earth 
> bastards?

Unless all child abuse has stopped then it's not a deterrent.

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:cqom949smn5k4j9nhnpu5jp9eeduej5b2j@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:54:40 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>news:aelm9415dt3esi3fb7vlo6oo0p4rbe6d2b@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>>>news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden have 
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>be
>>>>>>before you think that they should stop searching for him?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of 
>>>>> time
>>>>> that has
>>>>> passed since the alleged events took place...
>>>>
>>>>Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only too
>>>>happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged crimes,
>>>>and
>>>>retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.  You are all
>>>>heart.
>>>
>>> Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either 
>>> way...
>>> You
>>> know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened 63 or more years
>>> ago...
>>> What I'm questioning is the ability of ANYONE to mount a defence of some
>>> alleged
>>> incident back then...     That is why the whole idea of still hunting 
>>> for
>>> "nazis" is now nothing more then revenge and not justice at all...
>>
>>No it isn't - it's all about justice.
>
> A 95 year old man is brought before a court about something that allegedly
> happed some 64 or more years ago...  And you call this "justice"?  Knowing 
> full
> well how hard it would be to mount a robust defense?

If he's innocent he's got nothing to worry about, has he?  His lawyers won't 
be 95, his age doesn't affect how 'robust' his defence is or isn't.

>> It's not about some alleged incident,
>>they are tried and convicted if found guilty.
>
> Isn't it always alleged until conviction?  Or do you find trials just a 
> pain on
> the arse and would prefer to hang him from the nearest tree???
>
>>All above board, even if they
>>don't get nailed to the wall as you'd like them to be.
>>
>>So you'll be happy enough for bin Laden to walk free if he makes it to 
>>2051
>>or so, say another 40 years - would that be enough?
>
> We're discussing a man convicted of some sort of crime over 60 years ago 
> and my
> argument is that it's impossible to mount a robust defense because of the 
> amount
> of time gone by...  Evidence...  Witnessess... perhaps long dead...

In that case it would be equally impossible to mount a robust prosecution - 
what are you worried about.

> To proceed with such a trial is a mockery of justice and a slap in the 
> face of
> humanity.. it is pure blood lust and revenge...  And nothing more... 
> Which puts
> them at the same level as the very nazis they claim to put to justice...

To proceed with such a trial is a vindication of justice and a reminder to 
all who would commit such crimes against humanity.  It shows that we can 
rise above the level of these nazis that you admire and sympathise with. 
There should be no escape, no statute of limitations for these monsters.

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:ljlm94div45lsh4haasv6t8tin28rd2v92@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:57:55 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>news:4shm9455rvqj17hhmtum6fot5m0sgj4jv6@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95
>>>>>>>year old
>>>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial... 
>>>>>>>Hmmm...
>>>>>>>Wonder
>>>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>>>>deserve a freebie?
>>>>>
>>>>>Bad joke...
>>>>>
>>>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>>>>would result in her death.
>>>>>
>>>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to
>>>>>knock down
>>>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do
>>>>>that...
>>>>
>>>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>>>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>>>>upon.
>>>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>>
>>>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is
>>>>>unacceptable
>>>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he
>>>>>wants to
>>>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>>>>
>>>>>Ray
>>>>
>>>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to?
>>>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>>>>carry out a murder under this defence.
>>>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>>>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>>>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>>>>place.
>>>>
>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>
>>> This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I
>>> understand
>>> your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the 
>>> wall
>>> sort
>>> of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the
>>> criminal...  My
>>> aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to 
>>> jail...
>>> He
>>> should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight 
>>> and
>>> narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal
>>> nonsense...
>>>
>>> Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a
>>> shoplifter...
>>
>>I remember Pierrepoint finally realising that capital punishment was 
>>futile
>>simply because it did nothing to deter the people that he tended to hang -
>>sad squalid little murders committed in fits of passion, insanity or
>>drunkenness.  The real criminals, the real professional criminals, repeat
>>offenders every one of them, simply didn't do things like that.
>>
>>Of course, I'm assuming that Ray keeps a special get out  jail card for 
>>mass
>>murderers past their shelf life, and of course them that did it for the 
>>Old
>>Sod.
>
> Child abusers here in America now face Jessica's Law in 42 (or more) 
> States...
> That is - first offense - 25 years...  No nonsense...  Unless your in 
> Vermont
> and a few other states where you'll get a slap on the wrist by Liberal 
> judges...

Oh right, and you're saying that they should be let off if they get away 
with it for long enough.  The really old perverts should be let away with 
their crimes if it's long enough ago.  Right.

> Tell me this is NOT a deterrent to child molesting scum of the earth 
> bastards?

Right, and it doesn't matter how many children were murdered by this man 
because it was so long ago.  Come back Cromwell, all is forgiven.

Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:23:01 +0100, "Hal Ó Mearadhaigh."
>  wrote:
>
>> Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>>> news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden
>>>>>> have to be before you think that they should stop searching for
>>>>>> him?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of
>>>>> time that has
>>>>> passed since the alleged events took place...
>>>>
>>>> Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only
>>>> too happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged
>>>> crimes, and retire into a happy old age under your moral
>>>> protection. You are all heart.
>>>
>>> Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either
>>> way... You know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened
>>> 63 or more years ago... What I'm questioning is the ability of
>>> ANYONE to mount a defence of some alleged incident back then...
>>> That is why the whole idea of still hunting for "nazis" is now
>>> nothing more then revenge and not justice at all...
>>
>> So? Revenge is good. What justice did the Germans give the Jews? What
>> justice did the IRA give all their victims? No, revenge is good
>> indeed! Do as you would be done by!
>
> Now your just being ridiculous!

I don't think so! - It is clearly YOU who is ridiculous Ray, nobody else.

-- 
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh.

(Glac bóg an saol agus glacfaidh an saol bóg thú).

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:q5qm945uehtf3s9soik7qfj21ickmtpoeo@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:23:01 +0100, "Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." 
> 
> wrote:
>
>>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>>> news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden
>>>>>> have to be before you think that they should stop searching for
>>>>>> him?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of
>>>>> time that has
>>>>> passed since the alleged events took place...
>>>>
>>>> Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only
>>>> too happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged
>>>> crimes, and retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.
>>>> You are all heart.
>>>
>>> Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either
>>> way... You know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened 63
>>> or more years ago... What I'm questioning is the ability of ANYONE to
>>> mount a defence of some alleged incident back then...     That is why
>>> the whole idea of still hunting for "nazis" is now nothing more then
>>> revenge and not justice at all...
>>
>>So? Revenge is good. What justice did the Germans give the Jews? What
>>justice did the IRA give all their victims? No, revenge is good indeed! Do
>>as you would be done by!
>
> Now your just being ridiculous!

Of course he isnt, just because they are your republican bum chums  it makes 
all the difference to you.
Revenge is sweet and may adams and his cronies get thier just deserts
>
> Ray
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

"max.it" wrote in message news:489b810d.7671921@news.btinternet.com...
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:08:40 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>  wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 
>>>>>>year old
>>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial... 
>>>>>>Hmmm...  Wonder
>>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>>>deserve a freebie?
>>>>
>>>>Bad joke...
>>>>
>>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>>>would result in her death.
>>>>
>>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to 
>>>>knock down
>>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do 
>>>>that...
>>>
>>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>>>upon.
>>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>>>
>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>
>>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is 
>>>>unacceptable
>>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he 
>>>>wants to
>>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>>>
>>>>Ray
>>>
>>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to?
>>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>>>carry out a murder under this defence.
>>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>>>place.
>>>
>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>
>>This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I 
>>understand
>>your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the wall 
>>sort
>>of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the 
>>criminal...  My
>>aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to jail... 
>>He
>>should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight and
>>narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal 
>>nonsense...
>>
>>Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a 
>>shoplifter...
>>
>>Ray
>
> There was no murder!! fucksake Ray read the bloody story.
> Dementia is a horrible thing to deal with. The wifey probably had to
> take him to the pub each day, to sit over 2 pints of heavy for 12
> hours. She loved her husband so she looked after him and gave him the
> chance of some communal recreation before he forgot everything.
> I would like to see at what time the old guy wanted to visit the pub
> on the day or night that he killed his wife.
>
> Ray: I have been reading and responding to your posts for 10 years.
> You have been right wing, racist, you have supported killers, bombers,
> and terrorists. At the same time you have castigated every victim of a
> news story that you thought you could make a meal of. From cheering
> the murderer of young ladies in England to denouncing the terms of an
> old senile man's concivtion.
>
> The fact that you ply your trade as a web designer for Christian
> organisations makes you the most disgusting little, short leg, tully
> eyed dwarf cunt on the face of God's grey earth.
>
> We all now when the wifey  has chucked you out again.
> Limerick droop?

LMAORATF
>
> max.it (the orange cage)
>

On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 00:40:01 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
 wrote:

>
>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
>news:ljlm94div45lsh4haasv6t8tin28rd2v92@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:57:55 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>>news:4shm9455rvqj17hhmtum6fot5m0sgj4jv6@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95
>>>>>>>>year old
>>>>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial... 
>>>>>>>>Hmmm...
>>>>>>>>Wonder
>>>>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>>>>>deserve a freebie?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bad joke...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>>>>>would result in her death.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to
>>>>>>knock down
>>>>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do
>>>>>>that...
>>>>>
>>>>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>>>>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>>>>>upon.
>>>>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is
>>>>>>unacceptable
>>>>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he
>>>>>>wants to
>>>>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to?
>>>>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>>>>>carry out a murder under this defence.
>>>>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>>>>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>>>>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>>>>>place.
>>>>>
>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>
>>>> This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I
>>>> understand
>>>> your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the 
>>>> wall
>>>> sort
>>>> of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the
>>>> criminal...  My
>>>> aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to 
>>>> jail...
>>>> He
>>>> should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight 
>>>> and
>>>> narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal
>>>> nonsense...
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a
>>>> shoplifter...
>>>
>>>I remember Pierrepoint finally realising that capital punishment was 
>>>futile
>>>simply because it did nothing to deter the people that he tended to hang -
>>>sad squalid little murders committed in fits of passion, insanity or
>>>drunkenness.  The real criminals, the real professional criminals, repeat
>>>offenders every one of them, simply didn't do things like that.
>>>
>>>Of course, I'm assuming that Ray keeps a special get out  jail card for 
>>>mass
>>>murderers past their shelf life, and of course them that did it for the 
>>>Old
>>>Sod.
>>
>> Child abusers here in America now face Jessica's Law in 42 (or more) 
>> States...
>> That is - first offense - 25 years...  No nonsense...  Unless your in 
>> Vermont
>> and a few other states where you'll get a slap on the wrist by Liberal 
>> judges...
>>
>> Tell me this is NOT a deterrent to child molesting scum of the earth 
>> bastards?
>
>Unless all child abuse has stopped then it's not a deterrent. 

We have no way of knowing...  But if every child abuser knew he faced an
automatic 25 years in jail on first conviction, I'm sure that would make him/her
think twice...  Before destroying the soul of a child...

What's your solution?  Restorative justice?  Perhaps community service at a Boy
Scout camp?

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:35:33 GMT, (max.it) wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:08:40 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
>>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
>>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>>>deserve a freebie? 
>>>>
>>>>Bad joke...
>>>>
>>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>>>would result in her death.
>>>>
>>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to knock down
>>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do that...
>>>
>>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy. 
>>>>>
>>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>>>upon.
>>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>>>
>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>
>>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is unacceptable
>>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he wants to
>>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>>>
>>>>Ray
>>>
>>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to? 
>>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>>>carry out a murder under this defence.
>>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>>>place. 
>>>
>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>
>>This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I understand
>>your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the wall sort
>>of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the criminal...  My
>>aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to jail... He
>>should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight and
>>narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal nonsense...  
>>
>>Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a shoplifter...
>>
>>Ray
>
>There was no murder!! fucksake Ray read the bloody story.
>Dementia is a horrible thing to deal with. The wifey probably had to
>take him to the pub each day, to sit over 2 pints of heavy for 12
>hours. She loved her husband so she looked after him and gave him the
>chance of some communal recreation before he forgot everything.
>I would like to see at what time the old guy wanted to visit the pub
>on the day or night that he killed his wife.
>
>Ray: I have been reading and responding to your posts for 10 years.
>You have been right wing, racist, you have supported killers, bombers,
>and terrorists. At the same time you have castigated every victim of a
>news story that you thought you could make a meal of. From cheering
>the murderer of young ladies in England to denouncing the terms of an
>old senile man's concivtion.
>
>The fact that you ply your trade as a web designer for Christian
>organisations makes you the most disgusting little, short leg, tully
>eyed dwarf cunt on the face of God's grey earth.
>
>We all now when the wifey  has chucked you out again.
>Limerick droop?
>
>max.it (the orange cage)

Bye Max...  If you can't debate the issues like an adult, I can't be bothered to
engage you in that debate...  

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:09:30 -0400, William Clark
 wrote:

>In article ,
> "Hal Ó Mearadhaigh."  wrote:
>
>> Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>> > On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>> >> news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
>> >>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
>> >>>  wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden
>> >>>> have to be before you think that they should stop searching for
>> >>>> him?
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of
>> >>> time that has
>> >>> passed since the alleged events took place...
>> >>
>> >> Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only
>> >> too happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged
>> >> crimes, and retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.
>> >> You are all heart.
>> >
>> > Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either
>> > way... You know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened 63
>> > or more years ago... What I'm questioning is the ability of ANYONE to
>> > mount a defence of some alleged incident back then...     That is why
>> > the whole idea of still hunting for "nazis" is now nothing more then
>> > revenge and not justice at all...
>> 
>> So? Revenge is good. What justice did the Germans give the Jews? What 
>> justice did the IRA give all their victims? No, revenge is good indeed! Do 
>> as you would be done by!
>
>Indeed, future generations need to see that there is NO stature of 
>limitations on this kind of horrendous genocide, absolutely none.

They already know this...  

>That 
>is how you prevent them from repeating this barbarism. 

What about Stalin?  What about Dresden?  Stalin killed 20 million people, and
Harris ordered Dresden when it was completly militarily useless...  Yet some say
500 thousand people died in the wildfires...  Harris has statues to him...  If
the Germans won the war would you want Harris dragged before a kangaroo court
and be executed for crimes against humanity?

>The civilized 
>world will have its "revenge" by giving these Nazi cowards no peace 
>until they pay for their crimes.

When did "revenge" and Bloodlust become words to use for "civilized"?

> Hunt them down until every last one of 
>the cowardly butchers has been brought to justice.
>
>William Clark

Even if there is no chance of a robust defense?

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

In article ,
 "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:

> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:09:30 -0400, William Clark
>  wrote:
> 
> >In article ,
> > "Hal Ó Mearadhaigh."  wrote:
> >
> >> Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
> >> > On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
> >> >  wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
> >> >> news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
> >> >>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 +0100, "Sophistry Made Simple"
> >> >>>  wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden
> >> >>>> have to be before you think that they should stop searching for
> >> >>>> him?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of
> >> >>> time that has
> >> >>> passed since the alleged events took place...
> >> >>
> >> >> Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only
> >> >> too happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged
> >> >> crimes, and retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.
> >> >> You are all heart.
> >> >
> >> > Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either
> >> > way... You know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened 63
> >> > or more years ago... What I'm questioning is the ability of ANYONE to
> >> > mount a defence of some alleged incident back then...     That is why
> >> > the whole idea of still hunting for "nazis" is now nothing more then
> >> > revenge and not justice at all...
> >> 
> >> So? Revenge is good. What justice did the Germans give the Jews? What 
> >> justice did the IRA give all their victims? No, revenge is good indeed! Do 
> >> as you would be done by!
> >
> >Indeed, future generations need to see that there is NO stature of 
> >limitations on this kind of horrendous genocide, absolutely none.
> 
> They already know this...  
> 
> >That 
> >is how you prevent them from repeating this barbarism. 
> 
> What about Stalin?  What about Dresden?  Stalin killed 20 million people, and
> Harris ordered Dresden when it was completly militarily useless...  Yet some 
> say
> 500 thousand people died in the wildfires...  Harris has statues to him...  
> If
> the Germans won the war would you want Harris dragged before a kangaroo court
> and be executed for crimes against humanity?
> 
> >The civilized 
> >world will have its "revenge" by giving these Nazi cowards no peace 
> >until they pay for their crimes.
> 
> When did "revenge" and Bloodlust become words to use for "civilized"?
> 
> > Hunt them down until every last one of 
> >the cowardly butchers has been brought to justice.
> >
> >William Clark
> 
> Even if there is no chance of a robust defense?
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

So you DO support the Nazis then, Ray, don't you? How do you feel about 
the gas chambers, or do you think they never existed, just like you BNP 
buddies?

William Clark

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:50:26 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
 wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:35:33 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:08:40 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
>>>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
>>>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>>>>deserve a freebie? 
>>>>>
>>>>>Bad joke...
>>>>>
>>>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>>>>would result in her death.
>>>>>
>>>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to knock down
>>>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do that...
>>>>
>>>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>>>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>>>>upon.
>>>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>>
>>>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is unacceptable
>>>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he wants to
>>>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>>>>
>>>>>Ray
>>>>
>>>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to? 
>>>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>>>>carry out a murder under this defence.
>>>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>>>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>>>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>>>>place. 
>>>>
>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>
>>>This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I understand
>>>your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the wall sort
>>>of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the criminal...  My
>>>aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to jail... He
>>>should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight and
>>>narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal nonsense...  
>>>
>>>Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a shoplifter...
>>>
>>>Ray
>>
>>There was no murder!! fucksake Ray read the bloody story.
>>Dementia is a horrible thing to deal with. The wifey probably had to
>>take him to the pub each day, to sit over 2 pints of heavy for 12
>>hours. She loved her husband so she looked after him and gave him the
>>chance of some communal recreation before he forgot everything.
>>I would like to see at what time the old guy wanted to visit the pub
>>on the day or night that he killed his wife.
>>
>>Ray: I have been reading and responding to your posts for 10 years.
>>You have been right wing, racist, you have supported killers, bombers,
>>and terrorists. At the same time you have castigated every victim of a
>>news story that you thought you could make a meal of. From cheering
>>the murderer of young ladies in England to denouncing the terms of an
>>old senile man's concivtion.
>>
>>The fact that you ply your trade as a web designer for Christian
>>organisations makes you the most disgusting little, short leg, tully
>>eyed dwarf cunt on the face of God's grey earth.
>>
>>We all now when the wifey  has chucked you out again.
>>Limerick droop?
>>
>>max.it (the orange cage)
>
>Bye Max...  If you can't debate the issues like an adult, I can't be bothered to
>engage you in that debate...  
>
>Ray

You are running away Ray. Defend yourself like a man. You crawl and
creep digging up stories to make a sensation. Tell me that you don't.
You defend some murders on your twisted sick style of morality, tell
me you don't do that either. You would say anything if you thought
that it might help someone to like you just a little bit. You are
fucking rank piss poor at it too aren't you?

There is nothing to debate with you Ray, you are always wrong. Your
roll in life is to be a sad mouthy little cunt with no friends, who is
the focus of abuse from the people whose lives you stain.

I remember well what you had to say about Steve Wright, and I'm sure
other readers will also remember. Right enough you got a good response
to that post, all negative...again.



max.it (the orange cage)

On Aug 7, 1:54 pm, "Sophistry Made Simple" 
wrote:
> "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>
> news:aelm9415dt3esi3fb7vlo6oo0p4rbe6d2b@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:50:42 퍝, "Sophistry Made Simple"
> >  wrote:
>
> >>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
> >>news:11ej941vq3qkclnk7t604293nbklqbpdf7@4ax.com...
> >>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:38:45 퍝, "Sophistry Made Simple"
> >>>  wrote:
>
> >>>>How old was he at the time?  How old will, say, Osama bin Laden have to
> >>>>be
> >>>>before you think that they should stop searching for him?
>
> >>> It's not his age (at the time that is at issue), but the amount of time
> >>> that has
> >>> passed since the alleged events took place...
>
> >>Okey dokey, so bin Laden only has to wait it out and you'll be only too
> >>happy to see him get the benefit of the doubt about his alleged crimes,
> >>and
> >>retire into a happy old age under your moral protection.  You are all
> >>heart.
>
> > Either your stupid (which I doubt) or your being a pranny!  Either way...
> > You
> > know damn well I'm talking about an event that happened 63 or more years
> > ago...
> > What I'm questioning is the ability of ANYONE to mount a defence of some
> > alleged
> > incident back then...     That is why the whole idea of still hunting for
> > "nazis" is now nothing more then revenge and not justice at all...
>
> No it isn't - it's all about justice.  It's not about some alleged incident,
> they are tried and convicted if found guilty.  All above board, even if they
> don't get nailed to the wall as you'd like them to be.
>
> So you'll be happy enough for bin Laden to walk free if he makes it to 2051
> or so, say another 40 years - would that be enough?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

"Please Don't Be beastly to the Muslims"  ..a rewrite of an old song..
http://beecy.net/frank

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:22:13 GMT, (max.it) wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:50:26 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:35:33 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:08:40 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
>>>>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
>>>>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>>>>>deserve a freebie? 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bad joke...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>>>>>would result in her death.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to knock down
>>>>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do that...
>>>>>
>>>>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>>>>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>>>>>upon.
>>>>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is unacceptable
>>>>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he wants to
>>>>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to? 
>>>>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>>>>>carry out a murder under this defence.
>>>>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>>>>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>>>>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>>>>>place. 
>>>>>
>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>
>>>>This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I understand
>>>>your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the wall sort
>>>>of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the criminal...  My
>>>>aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to jail... He
>>>>should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight and
>>>>narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal nonsense...  
>>>>
>>>>Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a shoplifter...
>>>>
>>>>Ray
>>>
>>>There was no murder!! fucksake Ray read the bloody story.
>>>Dementia is a horrible thing to deal with. The wifey probably had to
>>>take him to the pub each day, to sit over 2 pints of heavy for 12
>>>hours. She loved her husband so she looked after him and gave him the
>>>chance of some communal recreation before he forgot everything.
>>>I would like to see at what time the old guy wanted to visit the pub
>>>on the day or night that he killed his wife.
>>>
>>>Ray: I have been reading and responding to your posts for 10 years.
>>>You have been right wing, racist, you have supported killers, bombers,
>>>and terrorists. At the same time you have castigated every victim of a
>>>news story that you thought you could make a meal of. From cheering
>>>the murderer of young ladies in England to denouncing the terms of an
>>>old senile man's concivtion.
>>>
>>>The fact that you ply your trade as a web designer for Christian
>>>organisations makes you the most disgusting little, short leg, tully
>>>eyed dwarf cunt on the face of God's grey earth.
>>>
>>>We all now when the wifey  has chucked you out again.
>>>Limerick droop?
>>>
>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>
>>Bye Max...  If you can't debate the issues like an adult, I can't be bothered to
>>engage you in that debate...  
>>
>>Ray
>
>You are running away Ray. Defend yourself like a man. You crawl and
>creep digging up stories to make a sensation. Tell me that you don't.

Your attacking me personally and your still doing it, how the hell did you
expect me to respond?  I'm trying to discuss the damn issues and all your doing
it throwing personal shite at me...  Now I have pretty thick skin having been
here a while, but you take the biscuit...  There is only so much shite I'll take
before I decide the debate is over...  Keep to the issues!!!

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:30:50 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
 wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:22:13 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:50:26 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:35:33 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:08:40 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:14 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:24:30 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:33:09 GMT, (max.it) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:44:55 -0400, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Wonderful sentence...  Now where did I put that article about that 95 year old
>>>>>>>>>being charged with being a Nazi and has to go to full trial...  Hmmm...  Wonder
>>>>>>>>>if he'll be banned from a pub...  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Fucksake Ray, the old guy had already served 52 years, sure didn't he
>>>>>>>>deserve a freebie? 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bad joke...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No joking, he admitted that he was resposible for his wifes death, the
>>>>>>>>medics decided that he was not aware that his actions at the time
>>>>>>>>would result in her death.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No excuse...    That's the same as a driver saying he didn't mean to knock down
>>>>>>>someone and kill them because nobody sets out from home in a car to do that...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Despite your most valiant but fankly poor attempts at distraction, I
>>>>>>must point out that the  car driver is in control of his mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The court decided that he was not a threat
>>>>>>>>to any other person and that reform by way of the prison system would
>>>>>>>>not be in the best interest of the old guy. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I think the judge was savvy enough to handle such a delicate case in
>>>>>>>>this way. The old lad is bound indoors, if his condition is as
>>>>>>>>reported then it will not be long before he will have to be taken away
>>>>>>>>for care. Even if his condition did not deteriorate, it is possible
>>>>>>>>that at times he would not recognise the relitives of his victim in
>>>>>>>>the social enviroment of the pub. This could lead to their distress
>>>>>>>>and this seems to be the issue that the judge has made his decision
>>>>>>>>upon.
>>>>>>>>I think this is a good decision that will not burden either the system
>>>>>>>>nor the relatives of the victim.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The victim gets no justice...  NO signal is sent that this is unacceptable
>>>>>>>behaviour...  He can probably get a pal to bring him all the booze he wants to
>>>>>>>his house... It doesn't sound like punishment to me...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The punishment is justified. Who would this signal be sent to? 
>>>>>>It would be difficult for anyone who was not dianosed with dementia to
>>>>>>carry out a murder under this defence.
>>>>>>He can probably nip down to an off licence and get booze himself, it
>>>>>>is Glasgow, no shortage of places to buy booze.
>>>>>>Did you notice the times of his curfew, and only banned from one
>>>>>>place. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>>>
>>>>>This to me, seems to be a reward for murder, not a punishment...  I understand
>>>>>your point, but i just don't agree...  I'm a nail the bastards to the wall sort
>>>>>of guy for murder and prisons that are crude and painful for the criminal...  My
>>>>>aim is to try to prevent repeat crimes...  If the criminal goes to jail... He
>>>>>should be so afraid of going back that he will remain on the straight and
>>>>>narrow...   I do not believe in this "restorative justice" liberal nonsense...  
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry, the man is murderer...  He should not be treated like a shoplifter...
>>>>>
>>>>>Ray
>>>>
>>>>There was no murder!! fucksake Ray read the bloody story.
>>>>Dementia is a horrible thing to deal with. The wifey probably had to
>>>>take him to the pub each day, to sit over 2 pints of heavy for 12
>>>>hours. She loved her husband so she looked after him and gave him the
>>>>chance of some communal recreation before he forgot everything.
>>>>I would like to see at what time the old guy wanted to visit the pub
>>>>on the day or night that he killed his wife.
>>>>
>>>>Ray: I have been reading and responding to your posts for 10 years.
>>>>You have been right wing, racist, you have supported killers, bombers,
>>>>and terrorists. At the same time you have castigated every victim of a
>>>>news story that you thought you could make a meal of. From cheering
>>>>the murderer of young ladies in England to denouncing the terms of an
>>>>old senile man's concivtion.
>>>>
>>>>The fact that you ply your trade as a web designer for Christian
>>>>organisations makes you the most disgusting little, short leg, tully
>>>>eyed dwarf cunt on the face of God's grey earth.
>>>>
>>>>We all now when the wifey  has chucked you out again.
>>>>Limerick droop?
>>>>
>>>>max.it (the orange cage)
>>>
>>>Bye Max...  If you can't debate the issues like an adult, I can't be bothered to
>>>engage you in that debate...  
>>>
>>>Ray
>>
>>You are running away Ray. Defend yourself like a man. You crawl and
>>creep digging up stories to make a sensation. Tell me that you don't.
>
>Your attacking me personally and your still doing it, how the hell did you
>expect me to respond?  I'm trying to discuss the damn issues and all your doing
>it throwing personal shite at me...  Now I have pretty thick skin having been
>here a while, but you take the biscuit...  There is only so much shite I'll take
>before I decide the debate is over...  Keep to the issues!!!
>
>Ray

The issue is Ray, that while you are crying about a senile elderly man
not being given enough punishment, you recently posted your happiness
about the "Five dead whores" in Middlesbourogh. 
As I see it, your statement above about  all murderers seems just a
whole lot like hypocrisy to me. 

max.it (the orange cage)