The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam and the Catholic and Protestant
churches support it. They, along with the government and the media, are the
biggest cheerleaders.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXS7NEecU

Looks like...  In the end...  It wasn't the Brits that defeated us and destroyed
our culture...  But a much more incideous vicious enemy...  European Socialism
and Multiculturalism**

**Euro style...

What say you?

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam and the Catholic and Protestant
> churches support it. They, along with the government and the media, are the
> biggest cheerleaders.
> 
> http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXS7NEecU
> 
> Looks like...  In the end...  It wasn't the Brits that defeated us and destroyed
> our culture...  But a much more incideous vicious enemy...  European Socialism
> and Multiculturalism**
> 
> **Euro style...
> 
> What say you?
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
You should try living over here in England if you think you are in 
danger of becoming a minority!

The "English" are marginalised and positively discriminated against.

Once you are part of Europe,you have sold your soul to the devil..

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:55:56 +0100, none  wrote:

>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam and the Catholic and Protestant
>> churches support it. They, along with the government and the media, are the
>> biggest cheerleaders.
>> 
>> http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXS7NEecU
>> 
>> Looks like...  In the end...  It wasn't the Brits that defeated us and destroyed
>> our culture...  But a much more incideous vicious enemy...  European Socialism
>> and Multiculturalism**
>> 
>> **Euro style...
>> 
>> What say you?
>> 
>> Ray
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
>> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>You should try living over here in England if you think you are in 
>danger of becoming a minority!
>
>The "English" are marginalised and positively discriminated against.
>
>Once you are part of Europe,you have sold your soul to the devil..


I'm currently living in Massachusettes, USA, having moved from Limerick, Ireland
in 1998...  However, I have a keen interest and slight active role in politics
and know a little about the situation in England as well...  And I Pray for you
as I do for Ireland!

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:55:56 +0100, none  wrote:
> 
>> Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
>>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam and the Catholic and Protestant
>>> churches support it. They, along with the government and the media, are the
>>> biggest cheerleaders.
>>>
>>> http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXS7NEecU
>>>
>>> Looks like...  In the end...  It wasn't the Brits that defeated us and destroyed
>>> our culture...  But a much more incideous vicious enemy...  European Socialism
>>> and Multiculturalism**
>>>
>>> **Euro style...
>>>
>>> What say you?
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
>>> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> You should try living over here in England if you think you are in 
>> danger of becoming a minority!
>>
>> The "English" are marginalised and positively discriminated against.
>>
>> Once you are part of Europe,you have sold your soul to the devil..
> 
> 
> I'm currently living in Massachusettes, USA, having moved from Limerick, Ireland
> in 1998...  However, I have a keen interest and slight active role in politics
> and know a little about the situation in England as well...  And I Pray for you
> as I do for Ireland!
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
I am grateful for your prayers! I have travelled quite a bit in the US 
and love the east coast and MA. Do you have a spare room for an ex altar 
boy from Antrim?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:43:04 +0100, none  wrote:

>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:55:56 +0100, none  wrote:
>> 
>>> Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
>>>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam and the Catholic and Protestant
>>>> churches support it. They, along with the government and the media, are the
>>>> biggest cheerleaders.
>>>>
>>>> http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXS7NEecU
>>>>
>>>> Looks like...  In the end...  It wasn't the Brits that defeated us and destroyed
>>>> our culture...  But a much more incideous vicious enemy...  European Socialism
>>>> and Multiculturalism**
>>>>
>>>> **Euro style...
>>>>
>>>> What say you?

>>> The "English" are marginalised and positively discriminated against.
>>>
>>> Once you are part of Europe,you have sold your soul to the devil..
>> 
>> 
>> I'm currently living in Massachusettes, USA, having moved from Limerick, Ireland
>> in 1998...  However, I have a keen interest and slight active role in politics
>> and know a little about the situation in England as well...  And I Pray for you
>> as I do for Ireland!
>> 
>> Ray

>I am grateful for your prayers! I have travelled quite a bit in the US 
>and love the east coast and MA. Do you have a spare room for an ex altar 
>boy from Antrim?

I might, but the missus might have something else to say about it...   You being
a total stranger and all...  You know...  

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

Scríobh none :
>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam 

Cheer up Ray, if you define atheism as a religious category, then us
godless infidels outnumber the muslims six to one.

>> and the Catholic and Protestant
>> churches support it. They, along with the government and the media, are the
>> biggest cheerleaders.
>> 
>> http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXS7NEecU
>> 
>> Looks like...  In the end...  It wasn't the Brits that defeated us and destroyed
>> our culture...  But a much more incideous vicious enemy...  European Socialism
>> and Multiculturalism**
>> 
>> **Euro style...
>> 
>> What say you?
>> 
>> Ray
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
>> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>You should try living over here in England if you think you are in 
>danger of becoming a minority!
>
>The "English" are marginalised and positively discriminated against.

So, it's not all bad then :)

>Once you are part of Europe,you have sold your soul to the devil..

Well yes, but the money paves our roads wonderfully.

-- 
'Donegal:  Up Here It's Different'
© Féachadóir

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:52:12 +0100, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:

>Scríobh none :
>>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
>>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam 
>
>Cheer up Ray, if you define atheism as a religious category, then us
>godless infidels outnumber the muslims six to one.

I don't define atheism as a religious category...  And I don't dismiss the
threat from Radical Islamists as easily as you do...  Do we have to have another
"spectacular" in Dublin or Shannon before Liberals like you come to your senses
and realise the dangers we conservative Irish Nationalists have always knows
about?

Ray

---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:849984pcmlp5dve09i0kcp7qh5dtp3h59q@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:55:56 +0100, none  wrote:
>
>>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country 
>>> by 2050.
>>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam and the Catholic and 
>>> Protestant
>>> churches support it. They, along with the government and the media, are 
>>> the
>>> biggest cheerleaders.
>>>
>>> http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXS7NEecU
>>>
>>> Looks like...  In the end...  It wasn't the Brits that defeated us and 
>>> destroyed
>>> our culture...  But a much more incideous vicious enemy...  European 
>>> Socialism
>>> and Multiculturalism**
>>>
>>> **Euro style...
>>>
>>> What say you?
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
>>> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>You should try living over here in England if you think you are in
>>danger of becoming a minority!
>>
>>The "English" are marginalised and positively discriminated against.
>>
>>Once you are part of Europe,you have sold your soul to the devil..
>
>
> I'm currently living in Massachusettes, USA, having moved from Limerick, 
> Ireland
> in 1998...  However, I have a keen interest and slight active role in 
> politics
> and know a little about the situation in England as well...  And I Pray 
> for you
> as I do for Ireland!
Do the authorities know you are there ray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dont believe his "slight active" role, he tells everybody he is a close 
colleague of gerry and knows fuck all about england

>
> Ray
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:otb984t21vl7mtqc5bfaruoe8vev5m49d5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:43:04 +0100, none  wrote:
>
>>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:55:56 +0100, none  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>>>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country 
>>>>> by 2050.
>>>>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam and the Catholic and 
>>>>> Protestant
>>>>> churches support it. They, along with the government and the media, 
>>>>> are the
>>>>> biggest cheerleaders.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXS7NEecU
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like...  In the end...  It wasn't the Brits that defeated us and 
>>>>> destroyed
>>>>> our culture...  But a much more incideous vicious enemy...  European 
>>>>> Socialism
>>>>> and Multiculturalism**
>>>>>
>>>>> **Euro style...
>>>>>
>>>>> What say you?
>
>>>> The "English" are marginalised and positively discriminated against.
>>>>
>>>> Once you are part of Europe,you have sold your soul to the devil..
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm currently living in Massachusettes, USA, having moved from Limerick, 
>>> Ireland
>>> in 1998...  However, I have a keen interest and slight active role in 
>>> politics
>>> and know a little about the situation in England as well...  And I Pray 
>>> for you
>>> as I do for Ireland!
>>>
>>> Ray
>
>>I am grateful for your prayers! I have travelled quite a bit in the US
>>and love the east coast and MA. Do you have a spare room for an ex altar
>>boy from Antrim?
>
> I might, but the missus might have something else to say about it...   You 
> being
> a total stranger and all...  You know...

Altar boy hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Ray
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:34:02 +0100, "David C Jones"
 wrote:

>
>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
>news:otb984t21vl7mtqc5bfaruoe8vev5m49d5@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:43:04 +0100, none  wrote:
>>
>>>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:55:56 +0100, none  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>>>>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country 
>>>>>> by 2050.
>>>>>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam and the Catholic and 
>>>>>> Protestant
>>>>>> churches support it. They, along with the government and the media, 
>>>>>> are the
>>>>>> biggest cheerleaders.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXS7NEecU
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like...  In the end...  It wasn't the Brits that defeated us and 
>>>>>> destroyed
>>>>>> our culture...  But a much more incideous vicious enemy...  European 
>>>>>> Socialism
>>>>>> and Multiculturalism**
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Euro style...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What say you?
>>
>>>>> The "English" are marginalised and positively discriminated against.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once you are part of Europe,you have sold your soul to the devil..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm currently living in Massachusettes, USA, having moved from Limerick, 
>>>> Ireland
>>>> in 1998...  However, I have a keen interest and slight active role in 
>>>> politics
>>>> and know a little about the situation in England as well...  And I Pray 
>>>> for you
>>>> as I do for Ireland!
>>>>
>>>> Ray
>>
>>>I am grateful for your prayers! I have travelled quite a bit in the US
>>>and love the east coast and MA. Do you have a spare room for an ex altar
>>>boy from Antrim?
>>
>> I might, but the missus might have something else to say about it...   You 
>> being
>> a total stranger and all...  You know...
>
>Altar boy hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Total stranger hey!!!!!!!!!!  YOu get the irony I hope!!!!

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:33:15 +0100, "David C Jones"
 wrote:

>
>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
>news:849984pcmlp5dve09i0kcp7qh5dtp3h59q@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:55:56 +0100, none  wrote:
>>
>>>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country 
>>>> by 2050.
>>>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam and the Catholic and 
>>>> Protestant
>>>> churches support it. They, along with the government and the media, are 
>>>> the
>>>> biggest cheerleaders.
>>>>
>>>> http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXS7NEecU
>>>>
>>>> Looks like...  In the end...  It wasn't the Brits that defeated us and 
>>>> destroyed
>>>> our culture...  But a much more incideous vicious enemy...  European 
>>>> Socialism
>>>> and Multiculturalism**
>>>>
>>>> **Euro style...
>>>>
>>>> What say you?
>>>>
>>>> Ray
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
>>>> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>You should try living over here in England if you think you are in
>>>danger of becoming a minority!
>>>
>>>The "English" are marginalised and positively discriminated against.
>>>
>>>Once you are part of Europe,you have sold your soul to the devil..
>>
>>
>> I'm currently living in Massachusettes, USA, having moved from Limerick, 
>> Ireland
>> in 1998...  However, I have a keen interest and slight active role in 
>> politics
>> and know a little about the situation in England as well...  And I Pray 
>> for you
>> as I do for Ireland!
>Do the authorities know you are there ray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Dont believe his "slight active" role, he tells everybody he is a close 
>colleague of gerry and knows fuck all about england

I'm talking about USA politics dope!

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:936f845s3f1duqj2hj1m3fvi3eth33v473@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:33:15 +0100, "David C Jones"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message
>>news:849984pcmlp5dve09i0kcp7qh5dtp3h59q@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:55:56 +0100, none  wrote:
>>>
>>>>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>>>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country
>>>>> by 2050.
>>>>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam and the Catholic and
>>>>> Protestant
>>>>> churches support it. They, along with the government and the media, 
>>>>> are
>>>>> the
>>>>> biggest cheerleaders.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXS7NEecU
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like...  In the end...  It wasn't the Brits that defeated us and
>>>>> destroyed
>>>>> our culture...  But a much more incideous vicious enemy...  European
>>>>> Socialism
>>>>> and Multiculturalism**
>>>>>
>>>>> **Euro style...
>>>>>
>>>>> What say you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
>>>>> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>You should try living over here in England if you think you are in
>>>>danger of becoming a minority!
>>>>
>>>>The "English" are marginalised and positively discriminated against.
>>>>
>>>>Once you are part of Europe,you have sold your soul to the devil..
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm currently living in Massachusettes, USA, having moved from Limerick,
>>> Ireland
>>> in 1998...  However, I have a keen interest and slight active role in
>>> politics
>>> and know a little about the situation in England as well...  And I Pray
>>> for you
>>> as I do for Ireland!
>>Do the authorities know you are there ray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>Dont believe his "slight active" role, he tells everybody he is a close
>>colleague of gerry and knows fuck all about england
>
> I'm talking about USA politics dope!

 "situation in England as well"

dope!!
>
> Ray
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

On 21 Jul, 16:52, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
[snips]
>
> >Once you are part of Europe,you have sold your soul to the devil..
>
> Well yes, but the money paves our roads wonderfully.
>
sorry, but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaE3EaQte78

On 21 Jul, 17:00, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:52:12 퍝, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
> >Scríobh none :
> >>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
> >>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
> >>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam
>
> >Cheer up Ray, if you define atheism as a religious category, then us
> >godless infidels outnumber the muslims six to one.
>
> I don't define atheism as a religious category...  And I don't dismiss the
> threat from Radical Islamists as easily as you do...  Do we have to have another
> "spectacular" in Dublin or Shannon before Liberals like you come to your senses
> and realise the dangers we conservative Irish Nationalists have always knows
> about?
>
> Ray
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

Wind your neck in Ray. First and formost that vast majority of Irish
in Ireland are pretty liberal. Infact you don't realise it Irish,
especially nationalists are not on your side on these issues.  How
many countries has the US dropped bombs in the last 30 years then
compare that to Ireland. Thats why we have nothing to fear from so
called radical islamists. Funny how you people always need a bad guy,
in the 60's it was the communists and since the break up of the USSR
its now Islamic radicals. The US foreign polical has killed more
innocent people than all islamic radicals put together yet that counts
for little in your mind. At the minute Ray your are a prime example of
everything that is so wrong with the US at the moment.

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:43:47 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
wrote:

>On 21 Jul, 17:00, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:52:12 +0100, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
>> >Scríobh none :
>> >>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>> >>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
>> >>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam
>>
>> >Cheer up Ray, if you define atheism as a religious category, then us
>> >godless infidels outnumber the muslims six to one.
>>
>> I don't define atheism as a religious category...  And I don't dismiss the
>> threat from Radical Islamists as easily as you do...  Do we have to have another
>> "spectacular" in Dublin or Shannon before Liberals like you come to your senses
>> and realise the dangers we conservative Irish Nationalists have always knows
>> about?
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
>> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Wind your neck in Ray. First and formost that vast majority of Irish
>in Ireland are pretty liberal.

But not all thank God!

>Infact you don't realise it Irish,
>especially nationalists are not on your side on these issues.

They ought to be if they are real nationalists... Interested in preserving the
country, the culture and the real Irish spirit of Ireland.  

 >How
>many countries has the US dropped bombs in the last 30 years then
>compare that to Ireland.

WTF?


>Thats why we have nothing to fear from so
>called radical islamists.

Don't we?  Read and learn boyo!
http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/000893.html

I had a better article, but can't find it now that I need it.    The implication
of your statement is of course, that Spain, England and the USA, among others
deserved to be attacked and that the innocents there murdered somehow are to
blame...  

>Funny how you people always need a bad guy,

Leftists never hold up a bad guy as an example such as comparing anyone that
disagrees with them to Hitler... Oh no...  And Ronald Reagan was a saint...  

>in the 60's it was the communists and since the break up of the USSR

Since American military might and tactical thinking overpowered and cowed the
cowardly commie scum...  Commies not scum?  Ask the relatives of the 20 million
Stalin killed?  

>its now Islamic radicals.

They picked the fight with us...  Did the people on 911 deserve to die?  What
about the people in the 7/7 bombings in London?  

>The US foreign polical has killed more
>innocent people than all islamic radicals put together yet that counts
>for little in your mind.

Your going to have to back that up...

>At the minute Ray your are a prime example of
>everything that is so wrong with the US at the moment.

And yet America is one of the strongest most nationalist nations in the world...
Standing up against the creeping socialism of the world...  Except for the
Democrats of course...  They are the "cut and run" party and we have Obama
telling us why we should be more like european socialists like he is...

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

"Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote in message 
news:oru094t2mp8mon5r1g56igpeli21oacs1n@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:43:47 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
> 
> wrote:
>
>>On 21 Jul, 17:00, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
>>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:52:12 +0100, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
>>> >Scríobh none :
>>> >>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>>> >>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own 
>>> >>> country by 2050.
>>> >>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam
>>>
>>> >Cheer up Ray, if you define atheism as a religious category, then us
>>> >godless infidels outnumber the muslims six to one.
>>>
>>> I don't define atheism as a religious category... And I don't dismiss 
>>> the
>>> threat from Radical Islamists as easily as you do... Do we have to have 
>>> another
>>> "spectacular" in Dublin or Shannon before Liberals like you come to your 
>>> senses
>>> and realise the dangers we conservative Irish Nationalists have always 
>>> knows
>>> about?
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
>>> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Wind your neck in Ray. First and formost that vast majority of Irish
>>in Ireland are pretty liberal.
>
> But not all thank God!
>
>>Infact you don't realise it Irish,
>>especially nationalists are not on your side on these issues.
>
> They ought to be if they are real nationalists... Interested in preserving 
> the
> country, the culture and the real Irish spirit of Ireland.
>
> >How
>>many countries has the US dropped bombs in the last 30 years then
>>compare that to Ireland.
>
> WTF?
>
>
>>Thats why we have nothing to fear from so
>>called radical islamists.
>
> Don't we?  Read and learn boyo!
> http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/000893.html
>
> I had a better article, but can't find it now that I need it.    The 
> implication
> of your statement is of course, that Spain, England and the USA, among 
> others
> deserved to be attacked and that the innocents there murdered somehow are 
> to
> blame...
>
>>Funny how you people always need a bad guy,
>
> Leftists never hold up a bad guy as an example such as comparing anyone 
> that
> disagrees with them to Hitler... Oh no...  And Ronald Reagan was a 
> saint...
>
>>in the 60's it was the communists and since the break up of the USSR
>
> Since American military might and tactical thinking overpowered and cowed 
> the
> cowardly commie scum...  Commies not scum?  Ask the relatives of the 20 
> million
> Stalin killed?
>
>>its now Islamic radicals.
>
> They picked the fight with us...  Did the people on 911 deserve to die? 
> What
> about the people in the 7/7 bombings in London?
>
>>The US foreign polical has killed more
>>innocent people than all islamic radicals put together yet that counts
>>for little in your mind.
>
> Your going to have to back that up...
>
>>At the minute Ray your are a prime example of
>>everything that is so wrong with the US at the moment.
>
> And yet America is one of the strongest most nationalist nations in the 
> world...
> Standing up against the creeping socialism of the world...  Except for the
> Democrats of course...  They are the "cut and run" party and we have Obama
> telling us why we should be more like european socialists like he is...
>  and the prick isnt a native american, a plastic yank, hey ray wheres the 
> boy these days, carted off hopefully
> Ray
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

On 30 Jul, 15:41, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:43:47 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On 21 Jul, 17:00, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
> >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:52:12 퍝, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
> >> >Scríobh none :
> >> >>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
> >> >>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
> >> >>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam
>
> >> >Cheer up Ray, if you define atheism as a religious category, then us
> >> >godless infidels outnumber the muslims six to one.
>
> >> I don't define atheism as a religious category...  And I don't dismiss the
> >> threat from Radical Islamists as easily as you do...  Do we have to have another
> >> "spectacular" in Dublin or Shannon before Liberals like you come to your senses
> >> and realise the dangers we conservative Irish Nationalists have always knows
> >> about?
>
> >> Ray
>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> >> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >Wind your neck in Ray. First and formost that vast majority of Irish
> >in Ireland are pretty liberal.
>
> But not all thank God!

Ray you don't even know what a liberal is.  At least most people here
can make up their own mind on individual policies. Thats why Ireland
has a strong mix or both conservative and liberal legislation.

Blind conservatives like you have little or not experience of any real
world living and just repeat what others tell you to think. Try some
original thought for once Ray.


>
> >Infact you don't realise it Irish,
> >especially nationalists are not on your side on these issues.
>
> They ought to be if they are real nationalists... Interested in preserving the
> country, the culture and the real Irish spirit of Ireland.  
>

If that was infact the case Ray then the biggest problem to Ireland is
not immigration but emmigration. More people of Irish decendency live
outside Ireland than in it. Including you Ray! You have yet to mention
that this year more people have left Ireland than have come into it
putting us once again into a period of emmigration.  Immigrants
contribute more  financially to the Irish economy that they take out.
Immigrants to Ireland have embraced organisations such as the GAA and
other Irish cultural organisations. Especially at underage levels.
Though Ray you being one of the people who abandoned his country
living thousands of miles away would know little of that. How can
anyone claim to be an irish nationalist when he abandoned his
country.

>  >How
>
> >many countries has the US dropped bombs in the last 30 years then
> >compare that to Ireland.
>
> WTF?

Don't you know or have you lost count?

>
> >Thats why we have nothing to fear from so
> >called radical islamists.
>
> Don't we?  Read and learn boyo!http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/000893.html

What if Ireland was allowing arabic planes to refuel in Ireland to
bomb the US. I bet you would see his point then. The US government are
warmongers. Their foreign policy is based on greedy self interest.

I am sorry quotes from Sir Ian Blair are not held in high regard
here.

We have nothing to fear from Islam as long as our government does not
support the greedy imperialist policies of the US and UK. Incase you
do not realise Ray most Irish nationalists know what imperilism is
really about and will have more sympathy with Islm than us imperialism
and greedy self interest. Ireland was forged on resisting imperialism.


>
> I had a better article, but can't find it now that I need it.    The implication
> of your statement is of course, that Spain, England and the USA, among others
> deserved to be attacked and that the innocents there murdered somehow are to
> blame...  
>

I made no such claim and and you have no right to try put words into
my mouth as such.

No innocent is to be blamed for any bombing. However the governments
of the US, UK, Spain etc are directly to blame for the murders of
hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their foreign
polices in the middle east are directly responsible for the increase
in anti western feeling and strengthening of fundamentalism in the
middle east.  No middle eastern country sent an army to the US or the
UK.


> >Funny how you people always need a bad guy,
>
> Leftists never hold up a bad guy as an example such as comparing anyone that
> disagrees with them to Hitler... Oh no...  And Ronald Reagan was a saint...  
>
> >in the 60's it was the communists and since the break up of the USSR
>
> Since American military might and tactical thinking overpowered and cowed the
> cowardly commie scum...  Commies not scum?  Ask the relatives of the 20 million
> Stalin killed?  

Again what do you actually know of communism, Stalin is not communism.
Tell me Ray how many have died around the world as a direct result of
greedy capitalism and imperialism.

Maybe Ray you can tell me how many civilains have dies in Iraq as a
result of the US/UK invasion. It was estimated as 785,957 in June
2007. With 1,414,723 seriously injured.

Why is it Ray the US government does not count the number of innocent
killed at their hands and are quite willing to say how many people
other countries killed?


>
> >its now Islamic radicals.
>
> They picked the fight with us...  Did the people on 911 deserve to die?  What
> about the people in the 7/7 bombings in London?  

This is the most pathetic excuse I have heard. First Iraq had nothing
to with 9/11 or 7/7 and neither did the Taliban. Us foreign policy has
been meddling in the middle east since the end od WW II. Nearly all
those who where involved in 9/11 had Saudi passports. Bin Laden is a
Saudi.  Why did they not invade Saudi Arabia? The Taliban had Bin
Laden under house arrest and where willing to extradite him as under
international law.

Neocon policies which centered on controlling the oil supplies inthe
middle east have existed since the early seventies.

Its an insult to those who died to use their names to bomb even more
innocent people thousands of miles away for oil.



>
> >The US foreign polical has killed more
> >innocent people than all islamic radicals put together yet that counts
> >for little in your mind.
>
> Your going to have to back that up...
>

Then Ray tell me how many poeple have died in Iraq due to the US/UK
invasion?

> >At the minute Ray your are a prime example of
> >everything that is so wrong with the US at the moment.
>
> And yet America is one of the strongest most nationalist nations in the world...
> Standing up against the creeping socialism of the world...  Except for the
> Democrats of course...  They are the "cut and run" party and we have Obama
> telling us why we should be more like european socialists like he is...
>
> Ray

Again Ray this shows you clearly do not know what socialism is. The
reality is the US system of government is closer to socialist than any
in Europe. A centralised government is the cornerstone of socialism.
Thats whay socialists in Europe want the european treaty.

>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 06:49:40 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
wrote:

>On 30 Jul, 15:41, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:43:47 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 21 Jul, 17:00, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:52:12 +0100, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
>> >> >Scríobh none :
>> >> >>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>> >> >>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
>> >> >>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam
>>
>> >> >Cheer up Ray, if you define atheism as a religious category, then us
>> >> >godless infidels outnumber the muslims six to one.
>>
>> >> I don't define atheism as a religious category...  And I don't dismiss the
>> >> threat from Radical Islamists as easily as you do...  Do we have to have another
>> >> "spectacular" in Dublin or Shannon before Liberals like you come to your senses
>> >> and realise the dangers we conservative Irish Nationalists have always knows
>> >> about?
>>
>> >> Ray
>>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
>> >> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> >Wind your neck in Ray. First and formost that vast majority of Irish
>> >in Ireland are pretty liberal.
>>
>> But not all thank God!
>
>Ray you don't even know what a liberal is.

And your expressing an elitism that is common among liberals... Nobody knows the
facts except people like you and everyone else is a dupe...

> At least most people here
>can make up their own mind on individual policies.

As they can do here...  Democracy in action

>Thats why Ireland
>has a strong mix or both conservative and liberal legislation.

As does America... Where do you think all those social programs that cost the
taxpayers so much come from?  

>Blind conservatives like you have little or not experience of any real
>world living and just repeat what others tell you to think. Try some
>original thought for once Ray.

I've probably travelled more of the world then you have...   I can see and think
about all sides of the issues, but I choose to support the side that I feel is
best for me and best for the country... 

A little test for you:  You know about the gas prices over here...  

Obama:  Opposes more drilling (mind you he just changed his mind on that, but
that might change again tomorrow)... He opposes the proposed new 45 new nuclear
power stations...  His solution to the crisis?  Inflate your tires!  Is this the
sort of solution you expect from the man that would be president?


>> >Infact you don't realise it Irish,
>> >especially nationalists are not on your side on these issues.
>>
>> They ought to be if they are real nationalists... Interested in preserving the
>> country, the culture and the real Irish spirit of Ireland.  
>>
>
>If that was infact the case Ray then the biggest problem to Ireland is
>not immigration but emmigration. More people of Irish decendency live
>outside Ireland than in it. Including you Ray!

I know the latter, I dispute the former...

>You have yet to mention
>that this year more people have left Ireland than have come into it
>putting us once again into a period of emmigration.

I was unaware of this fact...  Source?

>Immigrants
>contribute more  financially to the Irish economy that they take out.
>Immigrants to Ireland have embraced organisations such as the GAA and
>other Irish cultural organisations.

You are talking about legal immigrants who came through the system of checks and
had background and well as health checks to ensure they were not bringing in any
diseases?  

You are talking about legal immigrants who are not criminal illegal aliens?

If you, than we have no issue...  It's ILLEGAL  get that ILLEGAL, did I mention
ILLEGAL immigrants that have to be stopped and deported...  Most especially if
they are found to be criminals or commit a crime within the State...  Would you
agree with this?

>Especially at underage levels.
>Though Ray you being one of the people who abandoned his country
>living thousands of miles away would know little of that. How can
>anyone claim to be an irish nationalist when he abandoned his
>country.

Cheap shot...  A good debater, who has a command of the issues argues the issues
and not the personalities...  Your better than this... I've seen you debate
before, and you can be a good debater...  Do so again...

>
>>  >How
>>
>> >many countries has the US dropped bombs in the last 30 years then
>> >compare that to Ireland.
>>
>> WTF?
>
>Don't you know or have you lost count?
>

What does this have to do with illegal immigration?


>>
>> >Thats why we have nothing to fear from so
>> >called radical islamists.
>>
>> Don't we?  Read and learn boyo!http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/000893.html
>
>What if Ireland was allowing arabic planes to refuel in Ireland to
>bomb the US. I bet you would see his point then. The US government are
>warmongers. Their foreign policy is based on greedy self interest.
>

I should save this quote for the day, God forbid!  That Ireland is attacked by
Islamofascists!  Your only fooling youself if you think Ireland is immune from
this cancerous fascist evil...

>I am sorry quotes from Sir Ian Blair are not held in high regard
>here.
>
>We have nothing to fear from Islam as long as our government does not
>support the greedy imperialist policies of the US and UK.

So 9/11 and 7/7 and whenever that date was in Spain were all those countries
fault and they deserved to have innocent people bombed to bits?  Don't tell me
your one of those?

> Incase you
>do not realise Ray most Irish nationalists know what imperilism is
>really about and will have more sympathy with Islm than us imperialism
>and greedy self interest. Ireland was forged on resisting imperialism.

And what do you think Islamofascism is?  A peaceful loving hippy commune who are
filled with suicide bombers and psychopats who are simply misunderstood?  What
about the bombs they set off in Iraq killing Iraqis?  I remember a whole
schoolbus full of children been blown up, killing them all, and that is what
Islamofascism is...  A cruel, heartless, evil philosophy determined to
exterminate anyone and everyone that is not one of them...  That my friend is
modern imperalism...  

America freed 30 millon people when it liberated Iraq and ended the threat of
WMD and a middle east wide war...  Now Iran is threatening stability with Russia
and China backing it up...  When will the world learn?


>> I had a better article, but can't find it now that I need it.    The implication
>> of your statement is of course, that Spain, England and the USA, among others
>> deserved to be attacked and that the innocents there murdered somehow are to
>> blame...  
>>
>
>I made no such claim and and you have no right to try put words into
>my mouth as such.

I said it was implied, not stated...  It's how I read it, perhaps not how you
meant it... I should have given you a chance to clarify...

>No innocent is to be blamed for any bombing. However the governments
>of the US, UK, Spain etc are directly to blame for the murders of
>hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Murders?  Of terrorists?  Innocent people get killed in all wars!  

>Their foreign
>polices in the middle east are directly responsible for the increase
>in anti western feeling and strengthening of fundamentalism in the
>middle east.  No middle eastern country sent an army to the US or the
>UK.

They use terrorist orgs to fight a proxy war and you know this!  

>> >Funny how you people always need a bad guy,
>>
>> Leftists never hold up a bad guy as an example such as comparing anyone that
>> disagrees with them to Hitler... Oh no...  And Ronald Reagan was a saint...  
>>
>> >in the 60's it was the communists and since the break up of the USSR
>>
>> Since American military might and tactical thinking overpowered and cowed the
>> cowardly commie scum...  Commies not scum?  Ask the relatives of the 20 million
>> Stalin killed?  
>
>Again what do you actually know of communism, Stalin is not communism.
>Tell me Ray how many have died around the world as a direct result of
>greedy capitalism and imperialism.

Well 20 million or so died at the hands of Stalin...  

>
>Maybe Ray you can tell me how many civilains have dies in Iraq as a
>result of the US/UK invasion. It was estimated as 785,957 in June
>2007. With 1,414,723 seriously injured.

Those numbers are high even for you...  These stats are all over the place and
one quick search through google will show that...  Nobody knows for sure.  What
we DO know for SURE is that civilian deaths in Iraq were ACCIDENTAL and not part
of a genocidal policy...  Unlike alqaeda murders of civilians that they
deliberately target for murder...

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On 6 Aug, 16:42, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 06:49:40 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On 30 Jul, 15:41, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
> >> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:43:47 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On 21 Jul, 17:00, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote> >> >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:52:12 퍝, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
> >> >> >Scríobh none :
> >> >> >>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
> >> >> >>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
> >> >> >>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam
>
> >> >> >Cheer up Ray, if you define atheism as a religious category, then us
> >> >> >godless infidels outnumber the muslims six to one.
>
> >> >> I don't define atheism as a religious category...  And I don't dismiss the
> >> >> threat from Radical Islamists as easily as you do...  Do we have to have another
> >> >> "spectacular" in Dublin or Shannon before Liberals like you come to your senses
> >> >> and realise the dangers we conservative Irish Nationalists have always knows
> >> >> about?
>
> >> >> Ray
>
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> >> >> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >> >Wind your neck in Ray. First and formost that vast majority of Irish
> >> >in Ireland are pretty liberal.
>
> >> But not all thank God!
>
> >Ray you don't even know what a liberal is.
>
> And your expressing an elitism that is common among liberals... Nobody knows the
> facts except people like you and everyone else is a dupe...

Its was a challenge Ray for you to explain what a liberal actually is?
The reality is I believe you just blame everything you do not like on
liberals or socialists etc without actually knowing what they are.


>
> > At least most people here
> >can make up their own mind on individual policies.
>
> As they can do here...  Democracy in action
>
> >Thats why Ireland
> >has a strong mix or both conservative and liberal legislation.
>
> As does America... Where do you think all those social programs that cost the
> taxpayers so much come from?  
>
> >Blind conservatives like you have little or not experience of any real
> >world living and just repeat what others tell you to think. Try some
> >original thought for once Ray.
>
> I've probably travelled more of the world then you have...   I can see and think
> about all sides of the issues, but I choose to support the side that I feel is
> best for me and best for the country...
>
> A little test for you:  You know about the gas prices over here...  
>
> Obama:  Opposes more drilling (mind you he just changed his mind on that, but
> that might change again tomorrow)... He opposes the proposed new 45 new nuclear
> power stations...  His solution to the crisis?  Inflate your tires!  Is this the
> sort of solution you expect from the man that would be president?

So tell me Ray how 45 nuclear power stations are going to reduce the
price of gas?

The only possible solution is to create hybrid or electric cars which
use electric generated by the nuclear power stations, yet anyone will
tell you converting energy like this is extremely wastefull. Building
45 nuclear power stations is a long term solution and is certanly not
going to help people at the pump tomorrow morning. Secondly it just
pushes the dependency on oil onto an even more limited resource
uranium. This has a potential to make things even worse.  Keeping
tyres properly inflated is one solution to reduce fuel consumption and
save money Ray tomorrow morning. Obama clearly identifies US reliance
on foreign oil as the problem. Clearly everyone knows this yet with
oil men like GW Bush in charge, making millions for himself and his
oil buddies the real problem will never be tackled. Invading two
countries in the region which supplies the majority of world oil is
also a major factor in driving up oil prices.

the reality for you Ray is the US is being susidised buy the rest of
the world when itr comes to oil. This is being shown at the price of
fuel at the pump.  Just over $4 a gallon in the US. its rount $2.30
for a litre here, coming upto around $10 a gallon.

Obamas has clear polices on the matter,

1, Build cars that use less gas by increasin CAFE standards resulting
by 2020 passenger vehicles would average 40 miles per gallon.  My
current car in the UK averages 50mpg.

2, Replace the use of oil altogether as America's fuel of choice. Buy
providing $100 to anyone who wants a flexible fuel tank to run on E85.
and by making E85 availble across the US.

3. Reduce the risk of investing in renewable fuels by providing loan
guarantees and venture capital to those entrepreneurs with the best
plans to develop cell-bio fuel.

"If we had taken all these steps decades ago, like Brazil did when the
call for energy independence was first issued, we'd be immune right
now to the whims of oil-rich dictators and surging gas prices. If we
don't take these steps now there's going to be a day when we look back
at that $3.05 or $3.15 gasoline as the good old days. At some point
there's not going to be a tax rebate that's big enough or a tax
holiday that's long enough to solve these problems."  -Obama.

His policies are certainly more susbstancial than you are leading
people to believe Ray and your claim "His solution to the crisis?
Inflate your tires!" was infact misleading at best.

>
> >> >Infact you don't realise it Irish,
> >> >especially nationalists are not on your side on these issues.
>
> >> They ought to be if they are real nationalists... Interested in preserving the
> >> country, the culture and the real Irish spirit of Ireland.  
>
> >If that was infact the case Ray then the biggest problem to Ireland is
> >not immigration but emmigration. More people of Irish decendency live
> >outside Ireland than in it. Including you Ray!
>
> I know the latter, I dispute the former...
>
> >You have yet to mention
> >that this year more people have left Ireland than have come into it
> >putting us once again into a period of emmigration.
>
> I was unaware of this fact...  Source?

Have you lost touch with Ireland completely Ray. Maybe you should
check out the RTE news sometime.


>
> >Immigrants
> >contribute more  financially to the Irish economy that they take out.
> >Immigrants to Ireland have embraced organisations such as the GAA and
> >other Irish cultural organisations.
>
> You are talking about legal immigrants who came through the system of checks and
> had background and well as health checks to ensure they were not bringing in any
> diseases?  
>
> You are talking about legal immigrants who are not criminal illegal aliens?
>
> If you, than we have no issue...  It's ILLEGAL  get that ILLEGAL, did I mention
> ILLEGAL immigrants that have to be stopped and deported...  Most especially if
> they are found to be criminals or commit a crime within the State...  Would you
> agree with this?

Ireland is not the US Ray. The problem with illegal immigrants even
when exaggerated is small.  First most immigrants come from eastern
europe and are entitled to come to Ireland under the european freedom
of movement legislation. We have no land borders, few airports and few
seaports. Its one of the more difficult places to sneak into.

Secondly most crime in Ireland is committed by the Irish, Dublin crime
gangs run rampant. Irelands unemployed are largely Irish citizens. If
anything the immigrants are paying for those Irish who are lazy and
want to sponge of the system.

While the Irish government enforces strong and now found to be illegal
anti immigration laws they are now pushing for the 10s of thousands of
illegal Irish special status in the US. Thats hypocracy of the highest
order Ray. Considering Ray they kept a women in a refuggee camp in
Africa for 3 years despite the fact she had a visa and was legally
entitled to reside in Ireland.

The real way to tackle illegal immigrants is to prosecute those people
who employ them not draconian legislation that forces the legal
filipino nurses who contribute greatly  into abject poverty because
the Irish government did not want to pay to train Irish nurses.

>
> >Especially at underage levels.
> >Though Ray you being one of the people who abandoned his country
> >living thousands of miles away would know little of that. How can
> >anyone claim to be an irish nationalist when he abandoned his
> >country.
>
> Cheap shot...  A good debater, who has a command of the issues argues the issues
> and not the personalities...  Your better than this... I've seen you debate
> before, and you can be a good debater...  Do so again...
>
>

its a fact Ray. Young Irish people today are leaving to got the US,
england, Scotland and Austrailia is a bigger problem to an aging
population than immigration.


>
> >>  >How
>
> >> >many countries has the US dropped bombs in the last 30 years then
> >> >compare that to Ireland.
>
> >> WTF?
>
> >Don't you know or have you lost count?
>
> What does this have to do with illegal immigration?
>
>
>
> >> >Thats why we have nothing to fear from so
> >> >called radical islamists.
>
> >> Don't we?  Read and learn boyo!http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/000893.html
>
> >What if Ireland was allowing arabic planes to refuel in Ireland to
> >bomb the US. I bet you would see his point then. The US government are
> >warmongers. Their foreign policy is based on greedy self interest.
>
> I should save this quote for the day, God forbid!  That Ireland is attacked by
> Islamofascists!  Your only fooling youself if you think Ireland is immune from
> this cancerous fascist evil...

Catch your self on Ray now they are facists! Thats just emotive
language or spin nothing more.

Ireland is free from and will remain so while or goverment keeps a
neutral stance. Irish people by a landside want nothing todo with US/
UK aggressions or retention/torture flights in the middle east.

Already US dollars are paying for Isreals proxy agggressions against
Iran. This wanton violation of a nation's sovereignty would not be
tolerated if the tables were turned and Americans were being subjected
to Iranian-funded covert actions that took the lives of Americans, on
American soil, and destroyed American property and livelihood.


>
> >I am sorry quotes from Sir Ian Blair are not held in high regard
> >here.
>
> >We have nothing to fear from Islam as long as our government does not
> >support the greedy imperialist policies of the US and UK.
>
> So 9/11 and 7/7 and whenever that date was in Spain were all those countries
> fault and they deserved to have innocent people bombed to bits?  Don't tell me
> your one of those?

Ray the US has been meddling in the middle east since WW II. These
countries where bombed as a direct result of their respective
countries  foreign polices.  The thousands dead in both Europe, the US
and the middle east lies solely at the feet of these governments.


>
> > Incase you
> >do not realise Ray most Irish nationalists know what imperilism is
> >really about and will have more sympathy with Islm than us imperialism
> >and greedy self interest. Ireland was forged on resisting imperialism.
>
> And what do you think Islamofascism is?  A peaceful loving hippy commune who are
> filled with suicide bombers and psychopats who are simply misunderstood?  What
> about the bombs they set off in Iraq killing Iraqis?  I remember a whole
> schoolbus full of children been blown up, killing them all, and that is what
> Islamofascism is...  A cruel, heartless, evil philosophy determined to
> exterminate anyone and everyone that is not one of them...  That my friend is
> modern imperalism...  

So then Ray what about the 300 cruise missles per night for three
weeks in Iraq. Then tell about the 300 tonnes of depleted uranium left
by coalition forces, tell me about the fuel air bombs, or the nazi
tactic of shock and awe. All this in a nation devastated by 13 years
of US sanctions. The reality is the US is quite happy to fill the
ground withthe thousands of bodies of dead Iraqis for the $3 gallon
but outraged at the response you get.


>
> America freed 30 millon people when it liberated Iraq and ended the threat of
> WMD and a middle east wide war...  Now Iran is threatening stability with Russia
> and China backing it up...  When will the world learn?

When will the US learn Ray. Nearly 1 million of those Iraqies where
killed as a result of being freed. Another million and a half severely
injured. More millions (christian and sunnis mainly) forced to flee to
places like Syria. Already years of war and destruction with no end in
sight thats not freedem thats destruction Ray.  The regime you claimed
the Iraqis are freed from the US put in power and armed.  His running
of Iraq had little bearing on US opinion then.

As for WMDs who are you kidding Ray. Even the US has given up looking
for them.


>
> >> I had a better article, but can't find it now that I need it.    The implication
> >> of your statement is of course, that Spain, England and the USA, among others
> >> deserved to be attacked and that the innocents there murdered somehow are to
> >> blame...  
>
> >I made no such claim and and you have no right to try put words into
> >my mouth as such.
>
> I said it was implied, not stated...  It's how I read it, perhaps not how you
> meant it... I should have given you a chance to clarify...

I in noway way ever immplied that innocent people should be murdered
and I certainly did not imply that they deserved to be be murdered
Ray. You are directly trying to put words in my mouth and I will not
stand for it.


>
> >No innocent is to be blamed for any bombing. However the governments
> >of the US, UK, Spain etc are directly to blame for the murders of
> >hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>
> Murders?  Of terrorists?  Innocent people get killed in all wars!  

Casualities of war when they are killed in Iraq inncent victims of
murder when they are killed in the US. This is a clear example of the
hyprocracy within the neocon camp.


>
> >Their foreign
> >polices in the middle east are directly responsible for the increase
> >in anti western feeling and strengthening of fundamentalism in the
> >middle east.  No middle eastern country sent an army to the US or the
> >UK.
>
> They use terrorist orgs to fight a proxy war and you know this!  

Then why are the US not invading Saudi Arabia.  Bin Laden is a Saudi,
the 9/11 bombers where Saudi and the majority if Al Qaeda training
camps are there and Pakistan.


>
> >> >Funny how you people always need a bad guy,
>
> >> Leftists never hold up a bad guy as an example such as comparing anyone that
> >> disagrees with them to Hitler... Oh no...  And Ronald Reagan was a saint...  
>
> >> >in the 60's it was the communists and since the break up of the USSR
>
> >> Since American military might and tactical thinking overpowered and cowed the
> >> cowardly commie scum...  Commies not scum?  Ask the relatives of the 20 million
> >> Stalin killed?  
>
> >Again what do you actually know of communism, Stalin is not communism.
> >Tell me Ray how many have died around the world as a direct result of
> >greedy capitalism and imperialism.
>
> Well 20 million or so died at the hands of Stalin...  
>

This is propaganda Ray you are repeating. Its about 40 years out of
date. These figures include those who died during hte Russian famine
during WW II. Its like blaming Bush for what happened at New Orleans.
Another fact for you Ray, do you know nearly 60 percent of Russians
today believe Stalin was a good influence on their country. He
basically squeezed 150 years if industrial revolution into 10 years.
He did nothing any other imperialist country did including the UK and
now the US.  Old people in Russia are not dying from the cold winters
as in the UK or the US due to lack of energy due to Lenins communism.
Stalin killed all the communists after Lenins death. though again this
shows you do not know what communism is or what Russian people think
of Stalin.


>
>
> >Maybe Ray you can tell me how many civilains have dies in Iraq as a
> >result of the US/UK invasion. It was estimated as 785,957 in June
> >2007. With 1,414,723 seriously injured.
>
> Those numbers are high even for you...  These stats are all over the place and
> one quick search through google will show that...  Nobody knows for sure.  What
> we DO know for SURE is that civilian deaths in Iraq were ACCIDENTAL and not part
> of a genocidal policy...  Unlike alqaeda murders of civilians that they
> deliberately target for murder...
>
> Ray
>


These numbers are from a peer reviewed scientific document Ray and are
as accurate as can be.  If anythign this figure is more likley to be
lower than the actual body count.

> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 13:44:39 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
wrote:

>On 6 Aug, 16:42, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 06:49:40 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 30 Jul, 15:41, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:43:47 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On 21 Jul, 17:00, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
>> >> >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:52:12 +0100, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
>> >> >> >Scríobh none :
>> >> >> >>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
>> >> >> >>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam
>>
>> >> >> >Cheer up Ray, if you define atheism as a religious category, then us
>> >> >> >godless infidels outnumber the muslims six to one.
>>
>> >> >> I don't define atheism as a religious category...  And I don't dismiss the
>> >> >> threat from Radical Islamists as easily as you do...  Do we have to have another
>> >> >> "spectacular" in Dublin or Shannon before Liberals like you come to your senses
>> >> >> and realise the dangers we conservative Irish Nationalists have always knows
>> >> >> about?
>>
>> >> >> Ray
>>
>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
>> >> >> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> >> >Wind your neck in Ray. First and formost that vast majority of Irish
>> >> >in Ireland are pretty liberal.
>>
>> >> But not all thank God!
>>
>> >Ray you don't even know what a liberal is.
>>
>> And your expressing an elitism that is common among liberals... Nobody knows the
>> facts except people like you and everyone else is a dupe...
>
>Its was a challenge Ray for you to explain what a liberal actually is?
>The reality is I believe you just blame everything you do not like on
>liberals or socialists etc without actually knowing what they are.
>

Are we talking Euro Liberal, American Liberal, or socialist liberal?


>
>>
>> > At least most people here
>> >can make up their own mind on individual policies.
>>
>> As they can do here...  Democracy in action
>>
>> >Thats why Ireland
>> >has a strong mix or both conservative and liberal legislation.
>>
>> As does America... Where do you think all those social programs that cost the
>> taxpayers so much come from?  
>>
>> >Blind conservatives like you have little or not experience of any real
>> >world living and just repeat what others tell you to think. Try some
>> >original thought for once Ray.
>>
>> I've probably travelled more of the world then you have...   I can see and think
>> about all sides of the issues, but I choose to support the side that I feel is
>> best for me and best for the country...
>>
>> A little test for you:  You know about the gas prices over here...  
>>
>> Obama:  Opposes more drilling (mind you he just changed his mind on that, but
>> that might change again tomorrow)... He opposes the proposed new 45 new nuclear
>> power stations...  His solution to the crisis?  Inflate your tires!  Is this the
>> sort of solution you expect from the man that would be president?
>
>So tell me Ray how 45 nuclear power stations are going to reduce the
>price of gas?
>
>The only possible solution is to create hybrid or electric cars which
>use electric generated by the nuclear power stations, yet anyone will
>tell you converting energy like this is extremely wastefull.

I'm a sorta all-inclusive fella... Build the windmills and wave power thingines
and work towards having a hybrid car that can go over 40 MPH over a hill, as
well as drilling for more oil and creating Nuclear Power stations to aid the
rising need for power in this country....  What's wrong with that?

> Building
>45 nuclear power stations is a long term solution and is certanly not
>going to help people at the pump tomorrow morning.

Nothing the Dems would help the people at the pumps tomorrow either... However
Bush lifted the ban on drilling and the damn Dems (again) refused to allow an
up/down vote on the issue and pretty much gave the middle finger to the working
class people of America putting "liberal socialist principles" ahead of the
people they were elected to represent...

> Secondly it just
>pushes the dependency on oil onto an even more limited resource
>uranium. This has a potential to make things even worse.

10 years ago, it was your boy Clinton and the liberals that defeated yet another
attempt to get some drilling started...  

 >Keeping
>tyres properly inflated is one solution to reduce fuel consumption and
>save money Ray tomorrow morning.

700 billion a year going over seas to feed the need for oil here... Even liberal
estimates suggest that inflating your tires will cut that by 3%....   dopey
Obama suggested that by inflating your tires, we wouldn't need to drill!  This
man is a looney tune if he really believes this!


> Obama clearly identifies US reliance on foreign oil as the problem.

Than he should be a full supporter of "drill here, drill now!" right?

>Clearly everyone knows this yet with
>oil men like GW Bush in charge, making millions for himself and his
>oil buddies the real problem will never be tackled.

Polosi refused the up/down vote and swanned off to sell her total failure of a
book...  And after all them platitudes about "non-partisan" nonsense she spat
out when she became speaker!  Republicans will drill, Liberals would rather
everyone pay 8 dollars a gallon for oil....  Simple as that!


>Invading two
>countries in the region which supplies the majority of world oil is
>also a major factor in driving up oil prices.
>

They used to say we only invaded for the oil...  We didn't take it...  Now...
Ah you know the arguments... 

>the reality for you Ray is the US is being susidised buy the rest of
>the world when itr comes to oil. This is being shown at the price of
>fuel at the pump.  Just over $4 a gallon in the US. its rount $2.30
>for a litre here, coming upto around $10 a gallon.

You have to take GDP and standards of living into account when you try to
compare prices in different countries...  


>Obamas has clear polices on the matter,

It's a good thing your going to try and list them because he's been keeping them
secret up until now!

>
>1, Build cars that use less gas by increasin CAFE standards resulting
>by 2020 passenger vehicles would average 40 miles per gallon.  My
>current car in the UK averages 50mpg.

I've no probs with hybrids and if my truck ever needs to be replaced I'd
consider one of them beasties if they can make it as strong and powerful as my
current truck and yet get more MPG...   I "think" my SUV gets about 20 MPG city
and about 28 freeway...  I recently refilled it, it cost more then $70  Ouch!  

>2, Replace the use of oil altogether as America's fuel of choice. Buy
>providing $100 to anyone who wants a flexible fuel tank to run on E85.
>and by making E85 availble across the US.

There isn't the infrastructure in place for that sort of bold move...  If every
petrol/gas station were to provide support for hybrids like this it might work,
but converting all stations would cost an arm and a leg...  Who's to pay for
that?


>3. Reduce the risk of investing in renewable fuels by providing loan
>guarantees and venture capital to those entrepreneurs with the best
>plans to develop cell-bio fuel.

Don't agree... Let the free market decide the issue...  Private enterprise
funded privately is the way to go...  

>
>"If we had taken all these steps decades ago, like Brazil did when the
>call for energy independence was first issued, we'd be immune right
>now to the whims of oil-rich dictators and surging gas prices. If we
>don't take these steps now there's going to be a day when we look back
>at that $3.05 or $3.15 gasoline as the good old days. At some point
>there's not going to be a tax rebate that's big enough or a tax
>holiday that's long enough to solve these problems."  -Obama.
>
>His policies are certainly more susbstancial than you are leading
>people to believe Ray and your claim "His solution to the crisis?
>Inflate your tires!" was infact misleading at best.

He has no plan... He was stupid enough to suggest that inflating your tires was
the same as drilling and negated the need to drill...  He's clueless on this
issue..  As he is on many other issues... 

>
>>
>> >> >Infact you don't realise it Irish,
>> >> >especially nationalists are not on your side on these issues.
>>
>> >> They ought to be if they are real nationalists... Interested in preserving the
>> >> country, the culture and the real Irish spirit of Ireland.  
>>
>> >If that was infact the case Ray then the biggest problem to Ireland is
>> >not immigration but emmigration. More people of Irish decendency live
>> >outside Ireland than in it. Including you Ray!
>>
>> I know the latter, I dispute the former...
>>
>> >You have yet to mention
>> >that this year more people have left Ireland than have come into it
>> >putting us once again into a period of emmigration.
>>
>> I was unaware of this fact...  Source?
>
>Have you lost touch with Ireland completely Ray. Maybe you should
>check out the RTE news sometime.

I can't get to surf freely every day anymore...  I don't go to RTE except every
few days at best...   RTE is not what I'd call an unbiased source...

>
>
>>
>> >Immigrants
>> >contribute more  financially to the Irish economy that they take out.
>> >Immigrants to Ireland have embraced organisations such as the GAA and
>> >other Irish cultural organisations.
>>
>> You are talking about legal immigrants who came through the system of checks and
>> had background and well as health checks to ensure they were not bringing in any
>> diseases?  
>>
>> You are talking about legal immigrants who are not criminal illegal aliens?
>>
>> If you, than we have no issue...  It's ILLEGAL  get that ILLEGAL, did I mention
>> ILLEGAL immigrants that have to be stopped and deported...  Most especially if
>> they are found to be criminals or commit a crime within the State...  Would you
>> agree with this?
>
>Ireland is not the US Ray. The problem with illegal immigrants even
>when exaggerated is small.  First most immigrants come from eastern
>europe and are entitled to come to Ireland under the european freedom
>of movement legislation. We have no land borders, few airports and few
>seaports. Its one of the more difficult places to sneak into.
>

And when caught they should be finger printed, photographed and deported
immediately with a lifetime ban of every entering the country again, illegally
or legally...  

>Secondly most crime in Ireland is committed by the Irish, Dublin crime
>gangs run rampant. Irelands unemployed are largely Irish citizens. If
>anything the immigrants are paying for those Irish who are lazy and
>want to sponge of the system.

They make the same excuses over here to defend the crimes of illegal criminal
aliens...  Recently a gang banger murdered 3 US citizens in SanFran and he was
known but because of the moronic policy of the gay loving liberal mayor there,
he wasn't reported to ICE when he encountered the police before...  3 dead
people, murdered by an illegal criminal alien that should never have been in the
country!!!


>> >Especially at underage levels.
>> >Though Ray you being one of the people who abandoned his country
>> >living thousands of miles away would know little of that. How can
>> >anyone claim to be an irish nationalist when he abandoned his
>> >country.
>>
>> Cheap shot...  A good debater, who has a command of the issues argues the issues
>> and not the personalities...  Your better than this... I've seen you debate
>> before, and you can be a good debater...  Do so again...
>>
>>
>
>its a fact Ray. Young Irish people today are leaving to got the US,
>england, Scotland and Austrailia is a bigger problem to an aging
>population than immigration.
>
>
>>
>> >>  >How
>>
>> >> >many countries has the US dropped bombs in the last 30 years then
>> >> >compare that to Ireland.
>>
>> >> WTF?
>>
>> >Don't you know or have you lost count?
>>
>> What does this have to do with illegal immigration?
>>
>>
>>
>> >> >Thats why we have nothing to fear from so
>> >> >called radical islamists.
>>
>> >> Don't we?  Read and learn boyo!http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/000893.html
>>
>> >What if Ireland was allowing arabic planes to refuel in Ireland to
>> >bomb the US. I bet you would see his point then. The US government are
>> >warmongers. Their foreign policy is based on greedy self interest.
>>
>> I should save this quote for the day, God forbid!  That Ireland is attacked by
>> Islamofascists!  Your only fooling youself if you think Ireland is immune from
>> this cancerous fascist evil...
>
>Catch your self on Ray now they are facists! Thats just emotive
>language or spin nothing more.

Islamofascists...  

>Ireland is free from and will remain so while or goverment keeps a
>neutral stance. Irish people by a landside want nothing todo with US/
>UK aggressions or retention/torture flights in the middle east.
>

Yes, so long as Ireland kow tows to the Islamofascists and, like a good doggy,
sits and begs not to have it's citizens blown to bits...  That's just
insanity!!!  These bastards need to be confronted and exterminated!  not
appeased!!!!  We all saw where appeasement got Britain during ww2 didn't we?


>Already US dollars are paying for Isreals proxy agggressions against
>Iran. This wanton violation of a nation's sovereignty would not be
>tolerated if the tables were turned and Americans were being subjected
>to Iranian-funded covert actions that took the lives of Americans, on
>American soil, and destroyed American property and livelihood.
>

Oh... The UN are so good at keeping rogue nations in line...  Just like N Korea
and Iraq and now Iran...  I hope and fully expect the Israelies to bomb the Iran
Nuclear plant before long, the only thing I'm wondering about is why they
haven't already?!


>
>>
>> >I am sorry quotes from Sir Ian Blair are not held in high regard
>> >here.
>>
>> >We have nothing to fear from Islam as long as our government does not
>> >support the greedy imperialist policies of the US and UK.
>>
>> So 9/11 and 7/7 and whenever that date was in Spain were all those countries
>> fault and they deserved to have innocent people bombed to bits?  Don't tell me
>> your one of those?
>
>Ray the US has been meddling in the middle east since WW II. These
>countries where bombed as a direct result of their respective
>countries  foreign polices.  The thousands dead in both Europe, the US
>and the middle east lies solely at the feet of these governments.

The West and US freed 30 million people from under the yoke of Sadam Hussain and
is currently giving Iraq the best chance for actual democratic freedom it ever
had!  Meanwhile Iran....


>
>
>>
>> > Incase you
>> >do not realise Ray most Irish nationalists know what imperilism is
>> >really about and will have more sympathy with Islm than us imperialism
>> >and greedy self interest. Ireland was forged on resisting imperialism.
>>
>> And what do you think Islamofascism is?  A peaceful loving hippy commune who are
>> filled with suicide bombers and psychopats who are simply misunderstood?  What
>> about the bombs they set off in Iraq killing Iraqis?  I remember a whole
>> schoolbus full of children been blown up, killing them all, and that is what
>> Islamofascism is...  A cruel, heartless, evil philosophy determined to
>> exterminate anyone and everyone that is not one of them...  That my friend is
>> modern imperalism...  
>
>So then Ray what about the 300 cruise missles per night for three
>weeks in Iraq. Then tell about the 300 tonnes of depleted uranium left
>by coalition forces, tell me about the fuel air bombs, or the nazi
>tactic of shock and awe. All this in a nation devastated by 13 years
>of US sanctions. The reality is the US is quite happy to fill the
>ground withthe thousands of bodies of dead Iraqis for the $3 gallon
>but outraged at the response you get.
>

It was a war, not a fuckin' party and if the damn UN had done more than send
strongly worded letters to Sadam regarding it's WMD's the war would not have
been necessary!!    If anyone is to blame for the current situation in Iraq,
it's the UN (Useless Nonentities)

>> America freed 30 millon people when it liberated Iraq and ended the threat of
>> WMD and a middle east wide war...  Now Iran is threatening stability with Russia
>> and China backing it up...  When will the world learn?
>
>When will the US learn Ray. Nearly 1 million of those Iraqies where
>killed as a result of being freed. Another million and a half severely
>injured. More millions (christian and sunnis mainly) forced to flee to
>places like Syria. Already years of war and destruction with no end in
>sight thats not freedem thats destruction Ray.  The regime you claimed
>the Iraqis are freed from the US put in power and armed.  His running
>of Iraq had little bearing on US opinion then.
>
>As for WMDs who are you kidding Ray. Even the US has given up looking
>for them.
>

I'm not going over this issue again, you'll never accept the truth...


>
>>
>> >> I had a better article, but can't find it now that I need it.    The implication
>> >> of your statement is of course, that Spain, England and the USA, among others
>> >> deserved to be attacked and that the innocents there murdered somehow are to
>> >> blame...  
>>
>> >I made no such claim and and you have no right to try put words into
>> >my mouth as such.
>>
>> I said it was implied, not stated...  It's how I read it, perhaps not how you
>> meant it... I should have given you a chance to clarify...
>
>I in noway way ever immplied that innocent people should be murdered
>and I certainly did not imply that they deserved to be be murdered
>Ray. You are directly trying to put words in my mouth and I will not
>stand for it.
>

Your condecending attitude is irking me, but I'm putting it aside to debate you
so we're even on that score...

>
>>
>> >No innocent is to be blamed for any bombing. However the governments
>> >of the US, UK, Spain etc are directly to blame for the murders of
>> >hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>>
>> Murders?  Of terrorists?  Innocent people get killed in all wars!  
>
>Casualities of war when they are killed in Iraq inncent victims of
>murder when they are killed in the US. This is a clear example of the
>hyprocracy within the neocon camp.
>

I am NOT a neo-conservative... I'm old-school conservative...  

>
>>
>> >Their foreign
>> >polices in the middle east are directly responsible for the increase
>> >in anti western feeling and strengthening of fundamentalism in the
>> >middle east.  No middle eastern country sent an army to the US or the
>> >UK.
>>
>> They use terrorist orgs to fight a proxy war and you know this!  
>
>Then why are the US not invading Saudi Arabia.  Bin Laden is a Saudi,
>the 9/11 bombers where Saudi and the majority if Al Qaeda training
>camps are there and Pakistan.

One battle at a time!  LOL!!!  I don't suppose you see the humour there?
Thought not!

>
>
>>
>> >> >Funny how you people always need a bad guy,
>>
>> >> Leftists never hold up a bad guy as an example such as comparing anyone that
>> >> disagrees with them to Hitler... Oh no...  And Ronald Reagan was a saint...  
>>
>> >> >in the 60's it was the communists and since the break up of the USSR
>>
>> >> Since American military might and tactical thinking overpowered and cowed the
>> >> cowardly commie scum...  Commies not scum?  Ask the relatives of the 20 million
>> >> Stalin killed?  
>>
>> >Again what do you actually know of communism, Stalin is not communism.
>> >Tell me Ray how many have died around the world as a direct result of
>> >greedy capitalism and imperialism.
>>
>> Well 20 million or so died at the hands of Stalin...  
>>
>
>This is propaganda Ray you are repeating. Its about 40 years out of
>date. These figures include those who died during hte Russian famine
>during WW II. Its like blaming Bush for what happened at New Orleans.
>Another fact for you Ray, do you know nearly 60 percent of Russians
>today believe Stalin was a good influence on their country. He
>basically squeezed 150 years if industrial revolution into 10 years.
>He did nothing any other imperialist country did including the UK and
>now the US.  Old people in Russia are not dying from the cold winters
>as in the UK or the US due to lack of energy due to Lenins communism.
>Stalin killed all the communists after Lenins death. though again this
>shows you do not know what communism is or what Russian people think
>of Stalin.

Hitler is a an animal, anyone who ever even swept the floors for him in a
uniform must be hounded down no matter how long ago it was... Yet you give a man
who killed more people, because he's a lefty like you, a complete pass and try
to explain away 20 million deaths...   



>
>
>>
>>
>> >Maybe Ray you can tell me how many civilains have dies in Iraq as a
>> >result of the US/UK invasion. It was estimated as 785,957 in June
>> >2007. With 1,414,723 seriously injured.
>>
>> Those numbers are high even for you...  These stats are all over the place and
>> one quick search through google will show that...  Nobody knows for sure.  What
>> we DO know for SURE is that civilian deaths in Iraq were ACCIDENTAL and not part
>> of a genocidal policy...  Unlike alqaeda murders of civilians that they
>> deliberately target for murder...
>>
>> Ray
>>
>
>
>These numbers are from a peer reviewed scientific document Ray and are
>as accurate as can be.  If anythign this figure is more likley to be
>lower than the actual body count.

Here are some figures from the far far away with the moon bats liberals and even
their numbers don't match what your tryint to put forth:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/  - Obviously a fascist group (get it?)
 Documented civilian deaths from violence - 86,606 – 94,487 

Your numbers are away with the fairies!

Ray


---------------------------------------------------------------
We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
---------------------------------------------------------------

On 11 Aug, 16:50, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 13:44:39 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On 6 Aug, 16:42, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
> >> On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 06:49:40 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On 30 Jul, 15:41, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote> >> >> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:43:47 -0700 (PDT), freeireland 
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >On 21 Jul, 17:00, "Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"  wrote:
> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:52:12 퍝, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
> >> >> >> >Scríobh none :
> >> >> >> >>Whitewolf <rayh<spam>@iol.ie> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> The Irish are forecast to become an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050.
> >> >> >> >>> The fastest growing religion in Ireland is Islam
>
> >> >> >> >Cheer up Ray, if you define atheism as a religious category, then us
> >> >> >> >godless infidels outnumber the muslims six to one.
>
> >> >> >> I don't define atheism as a religious category...  And I don't dismiss the
> >> >> >> threat from Radical Islamists as easily as you do...  Do we have to have another
> >> >> >> "spectacular" in Dublin or Shannon before Liberals like you come to your senses
> >> >> >> and realise the dangers we conservative Irish Nationalists have always knows
> >> >> >> about?
>
> >> >> >> Ray
>
> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> We have our task, and God knows it is a hard one -- the salvage
> >> >> >> of a shipwrecked world. - Lothrop Stoddard
> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >> >> >Wind your neck in Ray. First and formost that vast majority of Irish
> >> >> >in Ireland are pretty liberal.
>
> >> >> But not all thank God!
>
> >> >Ray you don't even know what a liberal is.
>
> >> And your expressing an elitism that is common among liberals... Nobody knows the
> >> facts except people like you and everyone else is a dupe...
>
> >Its was a challenge Ray for you to explain what a liberal actually is?
> >The reality is I believe you just blame everything you do not like on
> >liberals or socialists etc without actually knowing what they are.
>
> Are we talking Euro Liberal, American Liberal, or socialist liberal?
>
>

You certainly where not very specific when you where branding liberals
as elitists!  There are many other brands of liberalism than those you
mention yet clearly you have been branding them all with one brush.
Liberalis transends politics crossing the borders of Art, culture and
politics.

It does not surprise me that somebody who resides in a country who was
the first to draft a constitution based on the concept of liberal
government or is run by a central government should dispise liberals
or socialists.  You have liberals to thank for the democracy and
indivdual freedoms you have today.


>
>
>
> >> > At least most people here
> >> >can make up their own mind on individual policies.
>
> >> As they can do here...  Democracy in action
>
> >> >Thats why Ireland
> >> >has a strong mix or both conservative and liberal legislation.
>
> >> As does America... Where do you think all those social programs that cost the
> >> taxpayers so much come from?
>
> >> >Blind conservatives like you have little or not experience of any real
> >> >world living and just repeat what others tell you to think. Try some
> >> >original thought for once Ray.
>
> >> I've probably travelled more of the world then you have...   I can see and think
> >> about all sides of the issues, but I choose to support the side that I feel is
> >> best for me and best for the country...
>
> >> A little test for you:  You know about the gas prices over here...
>
> >> Obama:  Opposes more drilling (mind you he just changed his mind on that, but
> >> that might change again tomorrow)... He opposes the proposed new 45 new nuclear
> >> power stations...  His solution to the crisis?  Inflate your tires!  Is this the
> >> sort of solution you expect from the man that would be president?
>
> >So tell me Ray how 45 nuclear power stations are going to reduce the
> >price of gas?
>
> >The only possible solution is to create hybrid or electric cars which
> >use electric generated by the nuclear power stations, yet anyone will
> >tell you converting energy like this is extremely wastefull.
>
> I'm a sorta all-inclusive fella... Build the windmills and wave power thingines
> and work towards having a hybrid car that can go over 40 MPH over a hill, as
> well as drilling for more oil and creating Nuclear Power stations to aid the
> rising need for power in this country....  What's wrong with that?

Drill for more oil, or windmills etc  thats your answer Ray.  First
Oil production has peaked thats means 50% of the worlds underground
oil supply has gone.  Due the poor performance of the dollar and
strife in the middle east the only real solution is to find an
alternative solution. As for wind power etc they are even more
expensive. The UK is now in the situation where wind farms have
actually pushed the price of energy up.  Hydrogen only shifts the
consumption to the power station. Due to the principles of capitalism
its in the interests of the oil companies to keep oil prices high.
The only real solution is to find an alternative to oil.


>
> > Building
> >45 nuclear power stations is a long term solution and is certanly not
> >going to help people at the pump tomorrow morning.
>
> Nothing the Dems would help the people at the pumps tomorrow either... However
> Bush lifted the ban on drilling and the damn Dems (again) refused to allow an
> up/down vote on the issue and pretty much gave the middle finger to the working
> class people of America putting "liberal socialist principles" ahead of the
> people they were elected to represent...


Properly inflating your tyres is a step people can take today. Cooper
Tire Europe that Britons could save a collective £1 billion every year
by maintaining their tyre pressure. Thats a 2.5 to 3% effiency in fuel
consumption.

>
> > Secondly it just
> >pushes the dependency on oil onto an even more limited resource
> >uranium. This has a potential to make things even worse.
>
> 10 years ago, it was your boy Clinton and the liberals that defeated yet another
> attempt to get some drilling started...

Remeber the first President Bush expanded the ban on drilling on most
of the offshore Outer Continental Shel fwith an executive order in
1990 after the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill in Alaska -- the worst
tanker accident in U.S. history.

Again not a good long term solution. These supplies would only
increase oil as a viable source of energy for a few years. 18 billion
barrels of oil and 76.5 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. Between
1996 and 2004 oil consumption in the US grew by 3 billion barrels a
day.

>
>  >Keeping
>
> >tyres properly inflated is one solution to reduce fuel consumption and
> >save money Ray tomorrow morning.
>
> 700 billion a year going over seas to feed the need for oil here... Even liberal
> estimates suggest that inflating your tires will cut that by 3%....   dopey
> Obama suggested that by inflating your tires, we wouldn't need to drill!  This
> man is a looney tune if he really believes this!

Again the US cannot meet its own demand for oil by increasing its own
drilling. A 3% reduction in US oil use comes to millions of barrels a
year.


>
> > Obama clearly identifies US reliance on foreign oil as the problem.
>
> Than he should be a full supporter of "drill here, drill now!" right?

Again the US cannot survive on its own oil reserves.

>
> >Clearly everyone knows this yet with
> >oil men like GW Bush in charge, making millions for himself and his
> >oil buddies the real problem will never be tackled.
>
> Polosi refused the up/down vote and swanned off to sell her total failure of a
> book...  And after all them platitudes about "non-partisan" nonsense she spat
> out when she became speaker!  Republicans will drill, Liberals would rather
> everyone pay 8 dollars a gallon for oil....  Simple as that!

Its the US excessive use of oil thats at the route of the crisis. The
rest of the world subsidises your oil. $8 a barrel its over $10 a
barrel in the UK.  Oil is a finite resource that Americans continue to
squander and then complain when they have to pay for it like everyone
else.


>
> >Invading two
> >countries in the region which supplies the majority of world oil is
> >also a major factor in driving up oil prices.
>
> They used to say we only invaded for the oil...  We didn't take it...  Now...
> Ah you know the arguments...

"New plans, obtained from the State Department by Newsnight and
H