On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:24:48 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:55:59 +1300, Nik  wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:54:41 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:03:29 +1300, Nik  wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:54:40 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>>You have mentioned that before. Maybe you might prefer to keep
>>>>>quiet on your relationship with a key supporter of the Opium War, and
>>>>>the man who kept collecting his Catholic Rent during the famine.
>>>>
>>>>Dat's fuckin naughty isn't it now?
>>>>
>>>>I'm proud of my familial connection to the great Dan. 
>>>>
>>>>I don't give a shit about any muck that you may rake on him. I don't
>>>>require him to be perfect, he was what he was and I love him for it.
>>>
>>>That could apply to anyone, though, couldn't it?
>>
>>No.
>>
>>> - sort of - "Ignoring half of what he did, the other half was OK"
>>
>>If being a prat in debates gives you joy you must be in raptures at
>>the moment.
>>
>>O'Connell was revered rather than reviled, you know that though, I'm
>>sure.
>
>You don't require him to be perfect, but you revere him anyway?
>Or you withhold your reverence because of his position on the Opium
>wars?
>
>Tell us what *you* think...
> 
>>>>>>>because, after all,  he
>>>>>>>never set out to deliver what you wanted. Instead, there are plenty
>>>>>>>of republicans alive today who failed 
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrong tense.
>>>>>
>>>>>Then take your pick:
>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who have failed..."
>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who will have failed..."
>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who are failing..."
>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who were failing..."
>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who have been failing..."
>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who will have been failing..."
>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who sold out..."
>>>>
>>>>"...plenty of Republicans alive today who are about to see the full
>>>>fruit of the Irish Republican cause and the stuggle and who're already
>>>>enjoying the change including the dismantlement of ALL the observation
>>>>posts, the official end of Operation Banner, a reduction in British
>>>>troop presence to the level prior to Operation Banner's initial
>>>>implementation,
>>
>><more gobshitery>
>>>Ahem. Just like the old days, then. I vaguely remember going to
>>>a go-kart race in the grounds of Palace Barracks in the 1960s.
>>>Boy scouts selling toffee apples, etc.
>>>
>>>Who knows, it could happen again.
>></more gobshitery>
>
>Nik, you were celebrating a return to the 1960's military position.
>Me too! So what is your problem?
>
>>>>The Republican movement has succeeded admirably and has yet to reach
>>>>the full and final fruitition of its action over history.
>>>
>>>How is that going to happen then?
>>
>>Time will tell.
>
>Are you waiting for time to tell *you* ? Or do you already know, but
>you won't say?
>
>>>>Tiocfaidh ár lá!
>
>>>Such as it is, your day is already here.
>
>>It is dawning right now.
>
>so, what does it look like? Power sharing at Stormont within
>the UK? Is there any part of that current situation that
>you *want* to keep?

First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the priority,
for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein, with regards to
the six counties was to end the abuse of the Nationalist/Republican
population. 

This consideration alone does not necessarily require a United Ireland
but, it was believed that the ending of the abuse of the
Nationalist/Republican community would be completely dismantled in the
even of Ireland becoming a 32 county Republic.

It seems to me, even though I am on the other side of the world, from
my reading of various different news sources from the six north
eastern counties in Ireland, is that things for the
Republican/Nationalist community have improved hugely in recents
times. The ending of Operation Banner, the dismantlement of every,
(obvious at least), British Army observation post, the perception of a
change within the culture of the PSNI, the sections from ther GFA
pertaining to a border referendum...

I see the current state of play in Ireland as very positive and so do
the mainstream Republican movement, in so far as I know.

Nik

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Nik wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:24:48 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:55:59 +1300, Nik  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:54:41 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:03:29 +1300, Nik  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:54:40 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>You have mentioned that before. Maybe you might prefer to keep
>>>>>>quiet on your relationship with a key supporter of the Opium War, and
>>>>>>the man who kept collecting his Catholic Rent during the famine.
>>>>>
>>>>>Dat's fuckin naughty isn't it now?
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm proud of my familial connection to the great Dan. 
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't give a shit about any muck that you may rake on him. I don't
>>>>>require him to be perfect, he was what he was and I love him for it.
>>>>
>>>>That could apply to anyone, though, couldn't it?
>>>
>>>No.
>>>
>>>
>>>>- sort of - "Ignoring half of what he did, the other half was OK"
>>>
>>>If being a prat in debates gives you joy you must be in raptures at
>>>the moment.
>>>
>>>O'Connell was revered rather than reviled, you know that though, I'm
>>>sure.
>>
>>You don't require him to be perfect, but you revere him anyway?
>>Or you withhold your reverence because of his position on the Opium
>>wars?
>>
>>Tell us what *you* think...
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>because, after all,  he
>>>>>>>>never set out to deliver what you wanted. Instead, there are plenty
>>>>>>>>of republicans alive today who failed 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wrong tense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Then take your pick:
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who have failed..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who will have failed..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who are failing..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who were failing..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who have been failing..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who will have been failing..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who sold out..."
>>>>>
>>>>>"...plenty of Republicans alive today who are about to see the full
>>>>>fruit of the Irish Republican cause and the stuggle and who're already
>>>>>enjoying the change including the dismantlement of ALL the observation
>>>>>posts, the official end of Operation Banner, a reduction in British
>>>>>troop presence to the level prior to Operation Banner's initial
>>>>>implementation,
>>>
>>><more gobshitery>
>>>
>>>>Ahem. Just like the old days, then. I vaguely remember going to
>>>>a go-kart race in the grounds of Palace Barracks in the 1960s.
>>>>Boy scouts selling toffee apples, etc.
>>>>
>>>>Who knows, it could happen again.
>>>
>>></more gobshitery>
>>
>>Nik, you were celebrating a return to the 1960's military position.
>>Me too! So what is your problem?
>>
>>
>>>>>The Republican movement has succeeded admirably and has yet to reach
>>>>>the full and final fruitition of its action over history.
>>>>
>>>>How is that going to happen then?
>>>
>>>Time will tell.
>>
>>Are you waiting for time to tell *you* ? Or do you already know, but
>>you won't say?
>>
>>
>>>>>Tiocfaidh ár lá!
>>
>>>>Such as it is, your day is already here.
>>
>>>It is dawning right now.
>>
>>so, what does it look like? Power sharing at Stormont within
>>the UK? Is there any part of that current situation that
>>you *want* to keep?
> 
> 
> First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the priority,
> for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein, with regards to
> the six counties was to end the abuse of the Nationalist/Republican
> population. 
> 
> This consideration alone does not necessarily require a United Ireland
> but, it was believed that the ending of the abuse of the
> Nationalist/Republican community would be completely dismantled in the
> even of Ireland becoming a 32 county Republic.
> 
> It seems to me, even though I am on the other side of the world, from
> my reading of various different news sources from the six north
> eastern counties in Ireland, is that things for the
> Republican/Nationalist community have improved hugely in recents
> times. The ending of Operation Banner, the dismantlement of every,
> (obvious at least), British Army observation post, the perception of a
> change within the culture of the PSNI, the sections from ther GFA
> pertaining to a border referendum...


It depends where a person lives. House prices have made people rich. I 
suppose the IRA cessation assisted towards that real estate bonanza.

The IRA are definitely on the run from the hoods in West Belfast. People 
are being stabbed & murdered defending property.

Toight (Saturday) for example the hoods defied the republican movement 
by standing their ground in Turf Lodge & Norfolk.

The PSNI sent out a helicopter with a searchlight. However the hoods sa 
usual clearly won. The UDA, UVF, RUC they are not the problem, the 
crisis was caused by thirty years of anti-state activism.

Our young people think it is ok to stab and terrorize pensioners because 
they lack a value system with any element of respect.

Nik wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:24:48 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:55:59 +1300, Nik  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:54:41 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:03:29 +1300, Nik  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:54:40 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>You have mentioned that before. Maybe you might prefer to keep
>>>>>>quiet on your relationship with a key supporter of the Opium War, and
>>>>>>the man who kept collecting his Catholic Rent during the famine.
>>>>>
>>>>>Dat's fuckin naughty isn't it now?
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm proud of my familial connection to the great Dan. 
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't give a shit about any muck that you may rake on him. I don't
>>>>>require him to be perfect, he was what he was and I love him for it.
>>>>
>>>>That could apply to anyone, though, couldn't it?
>>>
>>>No.
>>>
>>>
>>>>- sort of - "Ignoring half of what he did, the other half was OK"
>>>
>>>If being a prat in debates gives you joy you must be in raptures at
>>>the moment.
>>>
>>>O'Connell was revered rather than reviled, you know that though, I'm
>>>sure.
>>
>>You don't require him to be perfect, but you revere him anyway?
>>Or you withhold your reverence because of his position on the Opium
>>wars?
>>
>>Tell us what *you* think...
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>because, after all,  he
>>>>>>>>never set out to deliver what you wanted. Instead, there are plenty
>>>>>>>>of republicans alive today who failed 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wrong tense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Then take your pick:
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who have failed..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who will have failed..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who are failing..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who were failing..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who have been failing..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who will have been failing..."
>>>>>>"...plenty of republicans alive today who sold out..."
>>>>>
>>>>>"...plenty of Republicans alive today who are about to see the full
>>>>>fruit of the Irish Republican cause and the stuggle and who're already
>>>>>enjoying the change including the dismantlement of ALL the observation
>>>>>posts, the official end of Operation Banner, a reduction in British
>>>>>troop presence to the level prior to Operation Banner's initial
>>>>>implementation,
>>>
>>><more gobshitery>
>>>
>>>>Ahem. Just like the old days, then. I vaguely remember going to
>>>>a go-kart race in the grounds of Palace Barracks in the 1960s.
>>>>Boy scouts selling toffee apples, etc.
>>>>
>>>>Who knows, it could happen again.
>>>
>>></more gobshitery>
>>
>>Nik, you were celebrating a return to the 1960's military position.
>>Me too! So what is your problem?
>>
>>
>>>>>The Republican movement has succeeded admirably and has yet to reach
>>>>>the full and final fruitition of its action over history.
>>>>
>>>>How is that going to happen then?
>>>
>>>Time will tell.
>>
>>Are you waiting for time to tell *you* ? Or do you already know, but
>>you won't say?
>>
>>
>>>>>Tiocfaidh ár lá!
>>
>>>>Such as it is, your day is already here.
>>
>>>It is dawning right now.
>>
>>so, what does it look like? Power sharing at Stormont within
>>the UK? Is there any part of that current situation that
>>you *want* to keep?
> 
> 
> First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the priority,
> for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein, with regards to
> the six counties was to end the abuse of the Nationalist/Republican
> population. 



Sinn Fein are far more concerned with sectional or special interest 
group politics and with ways to appear ordinarily competent in the RoI.

For example, SF are not so smart with a budget, or economic issues, & 
gay rights trumps any problems that exist in West or North Belfast.

The core support that facilitated the war is taken for granted or viewed 
as unlikely to vote. Not voting is a good enough result for SF.

They want to contain 'open' dissent, they don't expect people in West 
Belfast etc. to actually take them that seriously as politicians.

Nik wrote:

[...]
> First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the priority,
> for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein, with regards to
> the six counties was to end the abuse of the Nationalist/Republican
> population.
[...]

Equality was only a priority for mainstream nationalist politicians, lead by
respectable, intelligent people Sinn Fein and the IRA went out of their
way to intimidate. Sinn Fein's only interest in human rights was to take
political and propaganda advantage of discrimination in support of it's
terrorist operations.

-- 
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
Go nuclear for a third industrial revolution, says EC
http://xrl.us/7dhw (Link to technology.newscientist.com)

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:11:34 +1300, Nik  wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:24:48 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>wrote:

>>so, what does it look like? Power sharing at Stormont within
>>the UK? Is there any part of that current situation that
>>you *want* to keep?
>
>First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the priority,
>for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein, with regards to
>the six counties was to end the abuse of the Nationalist/Republican
>population. 

Nik, I think I remember you saying that you used to sell copies
of An Phoblacht while you were over here. You maybe ought to
have read a few!

Their priority was British withdrawal.

David H

-- 
abend

Falcon wrote:
> Nik wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the priority,
>>for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein, with regards to
>>the six counties was to end the abuse of the Nationalist/Republican
>>population.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Equality was only a priority for mainstream nationalist politicians, lead by
> respectable, intelligent people Sinn Fein and the IRA went out of their
> way to intimidate. Sinn Fein's only interest in human rights was to take
> political and propaganda advantage of discrimination in support of it's
> terrorist operations.
> 


Respectability is relative.

"Sinn Fein's only interest in human rights was to take
political and propaganda advantage of discrimination in support of it's 
terrorist operations."

There is some truth in that, SF do not really understand human rights 
and when they do, it is often one-sided,

The IRA for example had a 'shoot to kill' policy which was much more 
clear cut than anything etc.

David H wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:11:34 +1300, Nik  wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:24:48 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>>wrote:
> 
> 
>>>so, what does it look like? Power sharing at Stormont within
>>>the UK? Is there any part of that current situation that
>>>you *want* to keep?
>>
>>First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the priority,
>>for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein, with regards to
>>the six counties was to end the abuse of the Nationalist/Republican
>>population. 
> 
> 
> Nik, I think I remember you saying that you used to sell copies
> of An Phoblacht while you were over here. You maybe ought to
> have read a few!
> 
> Their priority was British withdrawal.
> 
> David H
> 


Don't knock selling An Phoblacht!

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:23:03 +0100, "Falcon"
 wrote:

>
>Nik wrote:
>
>[...]
>> First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the priority,
>> for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein, with regards to
>> the six counties was to end the abuse of the Nationalist/Republican
>> population.
>[...]
>
>Equality was only a priority for mainstream nationalist politicians, lead by
>respectable, intelligent people Sinn Fein and the IRA went out of their
>way to intimidate. Sinn Fein's only interest in human rights was to take
>political and propaganda advantage of discrimination in support of it's
>terrorist operations.

Bullshit.

Nik

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On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:53:42 GMT, Jürs <Jürs@giantscr.ie> wrote:

>Falcon wrote:
>> Nik wrote:
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>>>First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the priority,
>>>for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein, with regards to
>>>the six counties was to end the abuse of the Nationalist/Republican
>>>population.
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>> Equality was only a priority for mainstream nationalist politicians, lead by
>> respectable, intelligent people Sinn Fein and the IRA went out of their
>> way to intimidate. Sinn Fein's only interest in human rights was to take
>> political and propaganda advantage of discrimination in support of it's
>> terrorist operations.
>> 
>
>
>Respectability is relative.
>
>"Sinn Fein's only interest in human rights was to take
>political and propaganda advantage of discrimination in support of it's 
>terrorist operations."
>
>There is some truth in that,

Bullshit there's truth in that.

> SF do not really understand human rights 

I've studied Moral Philosophy and I'm a past member of Sinn Fein so
take your prejudiced generalisations elsewhere.

>and when they do, it is often one-sided,

Examples please.

>The IRA for example had a 'shoot to kill' policy which was much more 
>clear cut than anything etc.

Explain, giving quotations from IRA Volunteers explicitly stating
that.

Nik

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On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:29:25 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:11:34 +1300, Nik  wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:24:48 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>>wrote:
>
>>>so, what does it look like? Power sharing at Stormont within
>>>the UK? Is there any part of that current situation that
>>>you *want* to keep?
>>
>>First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the priority,
>>for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein, with regards to
>>the six counties was to end the abuse of the Nationalist/Republican
>>population. 
>
>Nik, I think I remember you saying that you used to sell copies
>of An Phoblacht while you were over here. You maybe ought to
>have read a few!

Duh.

>Their priority was British withdrawal.

No. It is as I say and current events bear this out.

Nik

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"Nik"  wrote in message 
news:ih72p35t31fm38pu7anjg7l1jsc9s84lqj@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:29:25 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:11:34 +1300, Nik  wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:24:48 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>so, what does it look like? Power sharing at Stormont within
>>>>the UK? Is there any part of that current situation that
>>>>you *want* to keep?
>>>
>>>First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the priority,
>>>for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein, with regards to
>>>the six counties was to end the abuse of the Nationalist/Republican
>>>population.
>>
>>Nik, I think I remember you saying that you used to sell copies
>>of An Phoblacht while you were over here. You maybe ought to
>>have read a few!
>
> Duh.
>
>>Their priority was British withdrawal.
>
> No. It is as I say and current events bear this out.
>
> Nik
>

Well nikky you old IRA sympathiser, I thought you had been topped as we 
havent heard from you for a while, o well we can dream on cant we, are you 
back for good, still tryingt to get the money to get back to the rebel land 
then?
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet 
> News==----
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> Newsgroups
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> =----

David C Jones wrote:
> "Nik"  wrote in message
> news:ih72p35t31fm38pu7anjg7l1jsc9s84lqj@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:29:25 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:11:34 +1300, Nik 
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:24:48 GMT, swelter@btinternet.com (David H)
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> so, what does it look like? Power sharing at Stormont within
>>>>> the UK? Is there any part of that current situation that
>>>>> you *want* to keep?
>>>>
>>>> First and foremost, though it seems you have missed it, the
>>>> priority, for the mainstream Republican movement i.e. Sinn Fein,
>>>> with regards to the six counties was to end the abuse of the
>>>> Nationalist/Republican population.
>>>
>>> Nik, I think I remember you saying that you used to sell copies
>>> of An Phoblacht while you were over here. You maybe ought to
>>> have read a few!
>>
>> Duh.
>>
>>> Their priority was British withdrawal.
>>
>> No. It is as I say and current events bear this out.
>>
>> Nik
>>
>
> Well nikky you old IRA sympathiser, I thought you had been topped as
> we havent heard from you for a while, o well we can dream on cant we,
> are you back for good, still tryingt to get the money to get back to
> the rebel land then?

<RIBALD LAUGHTER>!!

-- 
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh.