On Jul 7, 8:18 pm, matt wrote:
> On Jul 7, 4:45 pm, Peter J Ross wrote:
> > matt wrote:
> > > On Jul 7, 1:12 pm, adamlynn wrote:
> > >> On Jul 7, 12:21 am, matt  wrote:
>
> > >> > from fairest creatures we desire increase
> > >> > that thereby beauties rose might never die;
> > >> > but, as the riper should by time decease,
> > >> > his tender hire might be his memory.
> > >> > but, thou contracted to thine own bright eyes;
> > >> > feedest thy lights flame with self substantial fuel;
> > >> > making a famine where abundance lies;
> > >> > thyself, they foe, to thy sweat self too cruel.
> > >> > thou that art now the worlds fresh ornament;
> > >> > and cater only to the gaudy spring;
> > >> > within thine own bud buriest thy content;
> > >> > and, tender churl, makest waste in niggarding.
> > >> > pity the world, or esle this glutten be.
> > >> > to eat the world dues, by the grave and thee.
>
> > >> > william shakespeare
>
> > >> > now, ladies and gents, notice that the word
> > >> > "memory" at the end of line four doesn't necessarily
> > >> > rhyme with "die" from line two.  however, after
> > >> > reading it out loud many times, i finally decided to
> > >> > try out my best attempt at a british accent.  and,
> > >> > upon watching many episodes of montey python
> > >> > in my day, i was able to scratch something out.
> > >> > anyway, it's altogether possible that shakespeare
> > >> > intended "memory" to be enunciated with a british
> > >> > accent, which would, in turn, make it memor i.
>
> > >> > get it..?
> > >> > ain't it clever..?
> > >> > matt
>
> > >> more likely die pronounced as dee
> > >> (I can hear John Cleese in the dead parrot skit now.....)
>
> > >>www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Lq771TVm4http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ne...quoted text -
>
> > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > perfect!
> > > you're probably correct.
> > > i'm glad i was, at least, in the ballpark.
>
> > No doubt you were in *a* ball park when you ought to have been
> > listening to a school lesson about the Great Vowel Shift.
>
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift>
>
> > > i'm positive my stab at a british accent
> > > is far from accurate...i just threw this
> > > out there for a few laughs.
>
> > I laughed. A lot. At you.
>
> > > everybody's so serious lately.
>
> > > it's such a drag.
>
> > Why don't you fuck off and dee?
>
> well, at least i did something positive todaye.
>
> and, i don't mind fucking off...it's the dying part
> that i'm not quite ready for at this time.  but,
> thanks for the offer all the sime.

Well, since this /is/ a Shakespeare thread, it is worth pointing out
that "die" was slang for "orgasm" at the time... my best and favorite
English teacher, Dan Barfield, explained that and other "had to be
there" things about Shakes that made the audiences enjoy these works
in ways we'll probably never get. His explanation of the word "Quaint"
was pretty enlightening, and why folks in the audience might chuckle
or blush when a man on the stage would smile and say "Pleased to make
your aquaintence, lady..." or somesuch. Here's some reposts from the
archives, fair use for educational purposes:

http://groups.google.com/group/humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare/msg/acae9fb206cb91d4?hl=en

"Paul Crowley"  wrote in
message news:8jEtc.728$Z14.701@news.indigo.ie...
> "Buffalo"  wrote in message news:c9605c$5oq$1@titan.btinternet.com...

> > At the other end of the spectrum we have those who
> > continually find sexual innuendo where it doesn't exist.

> Care to provide some examples?

I'll do better than that. I'll provide contrasting examples.

Example of adult exegesis (Lynne Kositsky), relating to Sonnet 3:

  But if thou live remembered not to be,
  Die single, and thine image dies with thee.

"But there's a wonderful pun on it too, one I've just discovered.
"Die" is
to have an orgasm. Therefore "to die single" is to masturbate. And
"Die
single and thine image dies with thee" has a wonderful flavour of self
love.
If you have an orgasm
while looking in the mirror, your image has one too. "

Example of pre-pubescent exegesis (Paul Crowley) of Sonnet 2 - my
paraphrase:

   When forty of the martial Winter brothers browbeat you about some
issue
   And dig deep trenches in Windsor Park....

Like most other people, I didn't have the stamina to wade through the
rest
of it. But a few taps of the Page Down key confirmed that it contained
what
I expected it to contain:-

Penis....vagina.... penis..... vagina....askt=arsed...her beauty lies
in her
arse... her "deepe sunken eyes"=her vagina (twin vaginas,
presumably)...
penis...female pudenda...orgasm....thriftlesse p-raise..another
vagina...
sum my cunt...her excuse for a cunt...the Queen's 'ole...

I told you  a couple of weeks ago that you had your head up your
arse.  But
that was before I'd heard about your  Royal Shitting Contest theory.
Now
that I've read it, it's obvious to me that your head is up your arse
because
you find the surroundings congenial.

Buffalo

And another from the Usenet archives:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.english.usage/msg/8cf5e89899baad46?hl=en

On Mon, 20 May 2002 15:21:47 퍝, "John Dean"
 said:

> "Polar"  wrote in message
> news:573heug3j33mrd0ocr9719bvtm89djj53n@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 19 May 2002 00:42:32 GMT, Bob Cunningham
> >  wrote:
> > [///]
> > >The French are actually very
> > >> clever at this. A lot of their rude slang looks & sounds identical to
> > >> non-rude words so the inference, so to speak, is in the eye of the
> > >> beholder.  cf 'baiser'
> > [///]
> > Takes me back to my French professor at university,
> > who warned us solemnly never to use the word "jouir".
> > He didn't say why.
> You don't say whether you ever found out, so, just in case, 'jouir' as a
> transitive verb is 'to enjoy' as in 'jouir d'une bonne sante' - 'to enjoy
> good health'. Intransitively, it means to have an orgasm.
> Has anyone ever done a thesis on this French tendency to hijack innocent
> vocab for unhealthy purposes?

The French evidently don't have a monopoly on it.  Shakespeare used
"die"
for "have an orgasm".

Is that usage still found in any modern English-speaking community?

Hmm ... Come to think of it, I guess there's nothing especially
healthy
about dying.
----

Crossposted to the appropriate newsgroups where we might get some
interested feedback... anyone care to illuminate this for us?

--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU

(Wilbur Wiggins posting in alt.english.usage)

On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 17:45:31 -0700 (PDT), Will Dockery
 wrote:

>On Jul 7, 8:18 pm, matt wrote:

<snip>

>> Has anyone ever done a thesis on this French tendency to hijack innocent
>> vocab for unhealthy purposes?
>
>The French evidently don't have a monopoly on it.  Shakespeare used
>"die" for "have an orgasm".

Spanish 'coger,' which can have various innocent meanings (e.g., to
take, to catch), also means 'to fuck' in some Latin American areas
(Mexico, Rio de la Plata, Venezuela), according to The Oxford Spanish
Dictionary.

<snip>

(alt.usage.english, which has a much larger readership than
alt.english.usage, added to newgroups list.)

 On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:53:11 -0700, Wilbur Wiggins
 wrote:

> 
>(Wilbur Wiggins posting in alt.english.usage)
>
>On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 17:45:31 -0700 (PDT), Will Dockery
> wrote:
>
>>On Jul 7, 8:18 pm, matt wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>> Has anyone ever done a thesis on this French tendency to hijack innocent
>>> vocab for unhealthy purposes?
>>
>>The French evidently don't have a monopoly on it.  Shakespeare used
>>"die" for "have an orgasm".
>
>Spanish 'coger,' which can have various innocent meanings (e.g., to
>take, to catch), also means 'to fuck' in some Latin American areas
>(Mexico, Rio de la Plata, Venezuela), according to The Oxford Spanish
>Dictionary.

English "woody," which can be the common nickname of a man (Woody
Hayes, Woody Harrelson), can also describe the sylvan characteristic
of a piece of property, or can refer to a bygone station-wagon style
in which the external door panels were real wood (and were not
unusually infested with termites), can also be a penile erection in
sometime (modern?) slang.

Wilbur Wiggins wrote:
> (alt.usage.english, which has a much larger readership than
> alt.english.usage, added to newgroups list.)
> 
>  On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:53:11 -0700, Wilbur Wiggins
>  wrote:
> 
>> (Wilbur Wiggins posting in alt.english.usage)
>>
>> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 17:45:31 -0700 (PDT), Will Dockery
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 7, 8:18 pm, matt wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Has anyone ever done a thesis on this French tendency to hijack innocent
>>>> vocab for unhealthy purposes?
>>> The French evidently don't have a monopoly on it.  Shakespeare used
>>> "die" for "have an orgasm".
>> Spanish 'coger,' which can have various innocent meanings (e.g., to
>> take, to catch), also means 'to fuck' in some Latin American areas
>> (Mexico, Rio de la Plata, Venezuela), according to The Oxford Spanish
>> Dictionary.
> 
> English "woody," which can be the common nickname of a man (Woody
> Hayes, Woody Harrelson), can also describe the sylvan characteristic
> of a piece of property, or can refer to a bygone station-wagon style
> in which the external door panels were real wood (and were not
> unusually infested with termites), can also be a penile erection in
> sometime (modern?) slang.

I like discussions of word usage as much as the next Partridge, but is 
this particular discussion fascinating even over in the appropriate 
newsgroup? Because - frankly and shirley - there's nothing in this 
portion of the conversation that isn't known to almost anyone with half 
a mind and a decent high school education.

What if Woody Guthrie had married Sylvia Plath: would they have given 
birth to Natalie Wood and Forrest DeKelly?

dmh

Dale Houstman wrote:

> I like discussions of word usage as much as the next Partridge

Is this a grouse?
-- 

Rob Bannister

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:50:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
 wrote:

>Dale Houstman wrote:
>
>> I like discussions of word usage as much as the next Partridge
>
>Is this a grouse?

I quail in fear of what's coming next in puns.

-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

tony cooper filted:
>
>On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:50:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
> wrote:
>
>>Dale Houstman wrote:
>>
>>> I like discussions of word usage as much as the next Partridge
>>
>>Is this a grouse?
>
>I quail in fear of what's coming next in puns.

As long as there's no squabbling....r


-- 
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?

On 2009-07-09 19:00:41 -0600, tony cooper said:
> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:50:30 +0800, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> Dale Houstman wrote:
>> 
>>> I like discussions of word usage as much as the next Partridge
>> 
>> Is this a grouse?
> 
> I quail in fear of what's coming next in puns.

Then - duck !!


-- 
The Canadian Curmudgeon (in Calgary)
Save our precious CO2 - plant many trees

At 17:17:32 on Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Mudge  wrote in 
<2009071011173116807-Nospam@neverever>:

>On 2009-07-09 19:00:41 -0600, tony cooper said:
>> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:50:30 +0800, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>> Dale Houstman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I like discussions of word usage as much as the next Partridge
>>>  Is this a grouse?
>>  I quail in fear of what's coming next in puns.
>
>Then - duck !!

Otherwise, the noise around here will *cap a ceilidh*.
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

In message <oS6Gf0X+m3VKFwPE@molly.mockford>, at 18:26:22 on Fri, 10 Jul 
2009, Molly Mockford  wibbled
>At 17:17:32 on Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Mudge  wrote in 
><2009071011173116807-Nospam@neverever>:
>
>>On 2009-07-09 19:00:41 -0600, tony cooper said:
>>> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:50:30 +0800, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>>> Dale Houstman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I like discussions of word usage as much as the next Partridge
>>>>  Is this a grouse?
>>>  I quail in fear of what's coming next in puns.
>>
>>Then - duck !!
>
>Otherwise, the noise around here will *cap a ceilidh*.

You bustard, I'll grouse about that one.

-- 
Pedt

Pedt" <"\"@ @\" wrote:
> Molly Mockford  wibbled:
>> At 17:17:32 on Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Mudge  wrote:
>>> On 2009-07-09 19:00:41 -0600, tony cooper said:
>>>> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:50:30 +0800, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>>>> Dale Houstman wrote:

>>>>>> I like discussions of word usage as much as the next Partridge

>>>>>  Is this a grouse?

>>>>  I quail in fear of what's coming next in puns.

>>> Then - duck !!

>> Otherwise, the noise around here will *cap a ceilidh*.

> You bustard, I'll grouse about that one.

Lawks, is it that time again?

On Jul 13, 5:06 am, Pedt <"\"@ @\""@user-unknown.mx2.org.uk> wrote:
> In message <oS6Gf0X魵...@molly.mockford>, at 18:26:22 on Fri, 10 Jul
> 2009, Molly Mockford  wibbled
>
> >At 17:17:32 on Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Mudge  wrote in
> ><2009071011173116807-Nospam@neverever>:
>
> >>On 2009-07-09 19:00:41 -0600, tony cooper said:
> >>> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:50:30 폍, Robert Bannister wrote:
> >>>> Dale Houstman wrote:
>
> >>>>> I like discussions of word usage as much as the next Partridge
> >>>>  Is this a grouse?
> >>>  I quail in fear of what's coming next in puns.
>
> >>Then - duck !!
>
> >Otherwise, the noise around here will *cap a ceilidh*.
>
> You bustard, I'll grouse about that one.
>

Can we please have less fowl language on AAPC?






> --
> Pedt