Hello,

I am not an native speaker. Can someony please explain
the difference between:

Ghost
Phantom
Wraith
Spectre
Spirit

My dictionary translates these words all to
the same word.

Thanking ou in advance,
Uli

"Ulrich Schwaderlap"  wrote...
> Hello,
>
> I am not an native speaker. Can someony please explain
> the difference between:
>
> Ghost
> Phantom
> Wraith
> Spectre
> Spirit
>
> My dictionary translates these words all to
> the same word.
>
> Thanking ou in advance,
> Uli

Hi, Uli.  The odd word out is "spirit", which usually refers to the part 
of a person which survives death and goes to heaven, hell, purgatory, 
etc.  The spirit is not itself usually held to be visible or otherwise 
perceivable by the living.  You used the word "soul" in the subject 
line, and this is a close synonym to "spirit" -- but not to the other 
words.

The other words are close synonyms of each other, and only the first, 
"ghost", is in normal usage nowadays.  These refer to the perception of 
a dead person, usually in visible form.

Matti

Ulrich Schwaderlap wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am not an native speaker. Can someony please explain
> the difference between:
>
> Ghost
> Phantom
> Wraith
> Spectre
> Spirit
>
> My dictionary translates these words all to
> the same word.
>
> Thanking ou in advance,
> Uli

You just have to accept that English has more words than German. Some have 
been borrowed from other languages, and often acquire gradations of meaning, 
whereas others are just synonyms.

"Ghost" is from Germanic, "phantom" is from French. "Wraith" is Scottish, 
with possible Norse origins. "Spectre" is from Latin, via French, as is 
"spirit", which originally meant the same as "ghost", which now has a 
different meaning - except in the phrase "Holy Ghost".
-- 
John Briggs

19:40, lunedì 21 gennaio 2008, Matti Lamprhey:
> "Ulrich Schwaderlap"  wrote...
>>
>> Ghost
>> Phantom
>> Wraith
>> Spectre
>> Spirit
>>
> 
> Hi, Uli.  The odd word out is "spirit", which usually refers
> to the part of a person which survives death and goes to
> heaven, hell, purgatory, etc.  The spirit is not itself
> usually held to be visible or otherwise
> perceivable by the living.  You used the word "soul" in the
> subject line, and this is a close synonym to "spirit" -- but
> not to the other words.
> 
> The other words are close synonyms of each other, and only the
> first, "ghost", is in normal usage nowadays.  These refer to
> the perception of a dead person, usually in visible form.


The first two words were used to name Rolls Royce cars.
There was also a Lotus Spirit, if I remember correctly.


-- 
°¿°

At 23:04:43 on Mon, 21 Jan 2008, ADPUF  wrote in 
<47951721$0$17945$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>:

>The first two words were used to name Rolls Royce cars.
>There was also a Lotus Spirit, if I remember correctly.

Wasn't that a Lotus Sprite?
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

ADPUF wrote...
>> Ulrich Schwaderlap wrote...

>>> Ghost
>>> Phantom
>>> Wraith
>>> Spectre
>>> Spirit

> The first two words were used to name Rolls Royce cars.
> There was also a Lotus Spirit, if I remember correctly.

There was also a Silver Wraith. I remember reading that the RR Silver Mist 
had to be hurriedly renamed just before its unveiling at the Frankfurt Motor 
Show, when someone pointed out what Mist means in German. It became the 
Silver Shadow, and a synonym of shadow - shade - could also have figured in 
Ulrich's list.

My Uncle Alistair was a wrabid Wraith Wrovers fan.
-- 
Noel

Molly Mockford wrote:
> At 23:04:43 on Mon, 21 Jan 2008, ADPUF  wrote in
> <47951721$0$17945$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>:
>
>> The first two words were used to name Rolls Royce cars.
>> There was also a Lotus Spirit, if I remember correctly.
>
> Wasn't that a Lotus Sprite?

Austin-Healey Sprite - more politically correct than the MG Midget...

Lotus Esprit (same letters, different order...)
-- 
John Briggs

ADPUF wrote:
> 19:40, lunedì 21 gennaio 2008, Matti Lamprhey:
>> "Ulrich Schwaderlap"  wrote...
>>>
>>> Ghost
>>> Phantom
>>> Wraith
>>> Spectre
>>> Spirit
>>>
>>
>> Hi, Uli.  The odd word out is "spirit", which usually refers
>> to the part of a person which survives death and goes to
>> heaven, hell, purgatory, etc.  The spirit is not itself
>> usually held to be visible or otherwise
>> perceivable by the living.  You used the word "soul" in the
>> subject line, and this is a close synonym to "spirit" -- but
>> not to the other words.
>>
>> The other words are close synonyms of each other, and only the
>> first, "ghost", is in normal usage nowadays.  These refer to
>> the perception of a dead person, usually in visible form.
>
> The first two words were used to name Rolls Royce cars.
> There was also a Lotus Spirit, if I remember correctly.

You don't :-)
-- 
John Briggs

Matti Lamprhey wrote:

> Hi, Uli.  The odd word out is "spirit", which usually refers to the part 
> of a person which survives death and goes to heaven, hell, purgatory, 
> etc.  The spirit is not itself usually held to be visible or otherwise 
> perceivable by the living.  You used the word "soul" in the subject 
> line, and this is a close synonym to "spirit" -- but not to the other 
> words.
> 
> The other words are close synonyms of each other, and only the first, 
> "ghost", is in normal usage nowadays.  These refer to the perception of 
> a dead person, usually in visible form.
>

"Ghost" is an archaic equivalent of "soul" or "spirit", as in the phrase 
"to give up the ghost", used (mostly) jocularly for to die. When the 
King James Bible was still in common use, the title used of the third 
member of the Trinity, the Holy Ghost, led to much misapprehension among 
schoolchildren. The meaning is now mostly confined to revenants.

JS

sprocket wrote...
> Matti Lamprhey wrote:
>
>> Hi, Uli.  The odd word out is "spirit", which usually refers to the part 
>> of a person which survives death and goes to heaven, hell, purgatory, 
>> etc.  The spirit is not itself usually held to be visible or otherwise 
>> perceivable by the living.  You used the word "soul" in the subject line, 
>> and this is a close synonym to "spirit" -- but not to the other words.
>>
>> The other words are close synonyms of each other, and only the first, 
>> "ghost", is in normal usage nowadays.  These refer to the perception of a 
>> dead person, usually in visible form.
>>
>
> "Ghost" is an archaic equivalent of "soul" or "spirit", as in the phrase 
> "to give up the ghost", used (mostly) jocularly for to die. When the King 
> James Bible was still in common use, the title used of the third member of 
> the Trinity, the Holy Ghost, led to much misapprehension among 
> schoolchildren. The meaning is now mostly confined to revenants.

To stay with the ecclesiastical, and to compound the confusion: Tallis' 
lovely motet "If ye love me" includes the line "E'en the spirit of 
truth...", with "spirit" to be sung as a single long syllable. Some 
ancient-music gurus have concluded that Tallis intended the word to be 
pronounced "sprite".
-- 
Noel

On Jan 21, 6:50 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> Ulrich Schwaderlap wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I am not an native speaker. Can someony please explain
> > the difference between:
>
> > Ghost
> > Phantom
> > Wraith
> > Spectre
> > Spirit
>
> > My dictionary translates these words all to
> > the same word.
>
> > Thanking ou in advance,
> > Uli
>
> You just have to accept that English has more words than German. Some have> been borrowed from other languages, and often acquire gradations of meaning,
> whereas others are just synonyms.
>
> "Ghost" is from Germanic, "phantom" is from French. "Wraith" is Scottish,
> with possible Norse origins. "Spectre" is from Latin, via French, as is
> "spirit", which originally meant the same as "ghost", which now has a
> different meaning - except in the phrase "Holy Ghost".

The first poster however was still mistaken in
assuming there was any "odd one out".

Moving into a Tolkein-esque reading of the words
were Wraiths, as in the Ring Wraiths, ever but
wraiths? Or were they, too, the intangible essences
of once-living but now dead life?

If so then no fair treatment of the subject would
omit "Wights", after which I surmise the Isle of
Wight is named and presumed the most haunted place
in Britain. As its Latin name was "Ventnor" there
is no obvious link to Lingua Romanes.

Otherwise to claim the "spirit" is the part which
goes to heaven and this is somehow unique and part
of the essence of the word itself is to ignore basic
tenets of Orthodox Exorcism--which seek to free
trapped tortured souls into Salvation as well as
bind Demons identified via a match-book or grammar
(where Spiritualism is concerned) and other such
nasty hellish creaures and despatch them back off
to the realms of interminable tedium in the form
of menial mind-numbing unrewarding labour for eternity.

Sprites were generally considered benevolent, IIRC
but are still distinct from Spirits. The concept of
the Holy Ghost is likely to be hung over from the
days of syncretism with Germanic peoples, and as
such its inclusion in the King James (Authorised
Version) should come as no surprise, although
obviously the islands of the Faroese were bigger
back then, in 1066 and all that.

Ghouls seems also to have been omitted from this
list.

As far as I'm aware - and no I haven't checked -
soul was at one point identical to sole, again in
the non-Roman, non-podiatric, sense of the word,
and means the indivisible essence of an individual
after all the concepts of "zeitgeist" and Holy Ghost
are of self-similarity manifest across populations
rather than anything so intuitive as individuality.

> --
> John Briggs- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

G DAEB
COPYRIGHT (C) 2008 SIPSTON
--

At 15:43:39 on Thu, 24 Jan 2008, FCS  wrote in 
:

>Moving into a Tolkein-esque reading of the words
>were Wraiths, as in the Ring Wraiths, ever but
>wraiths? Or were they, too, the intangible essences
>of once-living but now dead life?
>
>If so then no fair treatment of the subject would
>omit "Wights", after which I surmise the Isle of
>Wight is named and presumed the most haunted place
>in Britain. As its Latin name was "Ventnor" there
>is no obvious link to Lingua Romanes.

I would venture to suggest that you should move out of 
Tolkien(sic)-esque mode.  JRRT was deeply immersed in the cultural 
linguistics of many languages, and in LOTR he played fun games with that 
knowledge, for his enjoyment and ours.

Wight means man, person, living being.  Nothing more, nothing less.  The 
fact that Tolkien used it for his own purposes in LOTR does not mean 
that the word relates in any way whatsoever to the dead or to the 
undead.

And the Isle of Wight means pretty much "the Isle of Man" - except that 
the Isle of Man may well, accordingly to etymologists, not mean that at 
all.

(In very fond memory of Mike Stevens:  No man is an island.  So is Man.)
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

On Jan 25, 1:04 am, Molly Mockford 
wrote:
> At 15:43:39 on Thu, 24 Jan 2008, FCS  wrote in
> :
>
> >Moving into a Tolkein-esque reading of the words
> >were Wraiths, as in the Ring Wraiths, ever but
> >wraiths? Or were they, too, the intangible essences
> >of once-living but now dead life?
>
> >If so then no fair treatment of the subject would
> >omit "Wights", after which I surmise the Isle of
> >Wight is named and presumed the most haunted place
> >in Britain. As its Latin name was "Ventnor" there
> >is no obvious link to Lingua Romanes.
>
> I would venture to suggest that you should move out of
> Tolkien(sic)-esque mode.  JRRT was deeply immersed in the cultural
> linguistics of many languages, and in LOTR he played fun games with that
> knowledge, for his enjoyment and ours.
>
> Wight means man, person, living being.  Nothing more, nothing less.  The
> fact that Tolkien used it for his own purposes in LOTR does not mean
> that the word relates in any way whatsoever to the dead or to the
> undead.

I shall have to check out the fuller version
but the OED I'm using gives a second definition
as "spirit/ghost" with a poetic/literary usage.

Appearing in Tolkein does not satisfy the OED
requirements. Thus Tolkein did not originate
this usage. TSR and Gary Gygax are not considered
to be poetic/literary; and it's hardly a term I
keep reading in the Diary pages of the Daily Mail.

Have you ever being diagnosed as suffering from
AECMA by the way?

> And the Isle of Wight means pretty much "the Isle of Man" - except that
> the Isle of Man may well, accordingly to etymologists, not mean that at
> all.

Yes, indeed. It is Eden. I understand.

> (In very fond memory of Mike Stevens:  No man is an island.  So is ManShould I know who this man (sic) is?

> --
> Molly Mockford
> They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
> deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
> (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

G DAEB
COPYRIGHT (C) 2008 SIPSTON
--

FCS wrote:
> On Jan 25, 1:04 am, Molly Mockford 
> wrote:
>> At 15:43:39 on Thu, 24 Jan 2008, FCS  wrote
>> in
>> :
>>
>>> Moving into a Tolkein-esque reading of the words
>>> were Wraiths, as in the Ring Wraiths, ever but
>>> wraiths? Or were they, too, the intangible essences
>>> of once-living but now dead life?
>>
>>> If so then no fair treatment of the subject would
>>> omit "Wights", after which I surmise the Isle of
>>> Wight is named and presumed the most haunted place
>>> in Britain. As its Latin name was "Ventnor" there
>>> is no obvious link to Lingua Romanes.
>>
>> I would venture to suggest that you should move out of
>> Tolkien(sic)-esque mode. JRRT was deeply immersed in the cultural
>> linguistics of many languages, and in LOTR he played fun games with
>> that knowledge, for his enjoyment and ours.
>>
>> Wight means man, person, living being. Nothing more, nothing less.
>> The fact that Tolkien used it for his own purposes in LOTR does not
>> mean
>> that the word relates in any way whatsoever to the dead or to the
>> undead.
>
> I shall have to check out the fuller version
> but the OED I'm using gives a second definition
> as "spirit/ghost" with a poetic/literary usage.
>
> Appearing in Tolkein does not satisfy the OED
> requirements. Thus Tolkein did not originate
> this usage. TSR and Gary Gygax are not considered
> to be poetic/literary; and it's hardly a term I
> keep reading in the Diary pages of the Daily Mail.
>
> Have you ever being diagnosed as suffering from
> AECMA by the way?

Association Europeene des Constructeurs de Materiel Aerospatial?
-- 
John Briggs

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:27:48 +0100, "Ulrich Schwaderlap"
 wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I am not an native speaker. Can someony please explain
>the difference between:
>
>Ghost
>Phantom
>Wraith
>Spectre
>Spirit
>
>My dictionary translates these words all to
>the same word.

These words are largely interchangeable, but they do have connotations
associated with them. 

Spirit is the intangible "soul" of a person. 

Ghost is the manifestation of the spirit of a dead person. Ghosts are
often represented as white and wispy and translucent. 

Phantom refers to a ghost whose appearance is fleeting or surreal.
Phantom usually implies some menace, whereas ghosts may be benign.

Spectre is the same as phantom. 

Wraith is a ghost whose appearance portends an imminent death. 

Ghosts can be benign, but phantoms, spectres and wraiths are more
terrifying and sinister. 

- TR

At 12:00:26 on Fri, 25 Jan 2008, FCS  wrote in 
:

>Have you ever being diagnosed as suffering from
>AECMA by the way?

I have not the pleasure of understanding you.

>> (In very fond memory of Mike Stevens:  No man is an island.  So is Man.)
>
>Should I know who this man (sic) is?

Only if you happened to be a regular reader of this newsgroup (or 
various others).
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

Dear Ulrich,

I'm not a native speaker either. But I was curious what lead you to
this word-meaning search. How on earth could these words possibly
matter to us as they reflect a figment of human imagination and not
reality or scientifically verifiable truth? I think Matti is pretty
close when he says the terms 'soul' and 'spirit' probably refer to
something we can't see and experience physically. (I do believe you
can neither see or experience either of the other 'forms'.) But
'spirit' has been used in the other sense also, as in the case of
Shakespeare etc.

John Briggs has given it a well-researched answer which is an
etymologist's delight.

I wonder why Molly Mockford doesn't want her answer to be archived. It
is quite humorous and deserves to be archived, is my personal feeling.

I do hope the members of this group does not take this spirit-ghost-
phantom thing tooseriously and agree with me that this sort of
superstitions have only lead human civilisation backward. ('Phantom' I
think has a positive connotation as it is associated with Lee Falk's
comic.)

Paul.


 I am not an native speaker. Can someony please explain
> the difference between:
>
> Ghost
> Phantom
> Wraith
> Spectre
> Spirit
>
> My dictionary translates these words all to
> the same word.
>
> Thanking ou in advance,
> Uli

Paul wrote:
How on earth could these words possibly
> matter to us as they reflect a figment of human imagination and not
> reality or scientifically verifiable truth? 

Look behind you......

Ghosts etc. might not exist, but they make for good stories. I recommend 
that you read some of M.R. James' stories. This is a good one: 
http://www.fadl12200.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/mrjframes.html.

JS

At 06:58:55 on Mon, 28 Jan 2008, Paul  wrote in 
:

>I wonder why Molly Mockford doesn't want her answer to be archived. It
>is quite humorous and deserves to be archived, is my personal feeling.

You've got the wrong person, I think - in normal newsgroup postings I 
have never used X-No-Archive, and never would - no more than I would 
conceal my real name.  I stand by what I write, for good or ill, and I 
always have.

[When I was a member of UKVoting, of course the Calls for Votes which I 
prepared included X-No-Archive headers, otherwise (*sigh*) users of 
GoogleGroups would find them and try to vote, months or even years after 
the vote had closed.]

But thank you for the compliment, if it was indeed directed towards me, 
and not to somebody who is using XNA.
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

Well, it's the quote below with the interesting reference to the Rolls
Royce models that I felt bears a trace of light hearted banter, Molly.
And I can swear, when I looked at it first, it came with a
'rider' (typed specially in a light pink box below the original
message) which stated for all those who cared to read, that the author
does not want this message archived and this message will disappear in
a span of exactly seven days! (After all, seven days was what it took
God Almighty to create the universe!)

But now, looking at it again, I find that this precautionary
notification has vanished in to thin air, much like the phantoms,
ghosts, elves,goblins et al in Uri's letter!

In all humility I retract from my earlier position that these things
don't really exist  and are only figments of human imagination!

At 23:04:43 on Mon, 21 Jan 2008, ADPUF  wrote in
<47951721$0$17945$4fafb...@reader1.news.tin.it>:

>The first two words were used to name Rolls Royce cars.
>There was also a Lotus Spirit, if I remember correctly.

Wasn't that a Lotus Sprite?
--
Molly Mockford




On 29 Jan, 00:53, Molly Mockford 
wrote:
> At 06:58:55 on Mon, 28 Jan 2008, Paul  wrote in
> :
>
> >I wonder why Molly Mockford doesn't want her answer to be archived. It
> >is quite humorous and deserves to be archived, is my personal feeling.
>
> You've got the wrong person, I think - in normal newsgroup postings I
> have never used X-No-Archive, and never would - no more than I would
> conceal my real name.  I stand by what I write, for good or ill, and I
> always have.
>
> [When I was a member of UKVoting, of course the Calls for Votes which I
> prepared included X-No-Archive headers, otherwise (*sigh*) users of
> GoogleGroups would find them and try to vote, months or even years after
> the vote had closed.]
>
> But thank you for the compliment, if it was indeed directed towards me,
> and not to somebody who is using XNA.
> --
> Molly Mockford
> They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
> deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
> (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

To Sprocket.

I checked the link. Have saved it for a rainy day's reading. But give
me Wodehouse, Jeffery Archer,  'Illusions', or 'Da Vincy Code' and
I'll give the ghosts the go by. Also, narrow-minded as I am, I tend to
believe, that belief in things supernatural has been a dampener on
mankind all along, bringing in its wake, a complexity of socio-
psychological problems.

To IIdhund

I still do not know what 'Mist' means in German. The only German words
I know are Blaupunkt (which a friend told me, means Blue Dot) and
Alpen Liebe (a different friend said it translates to 'Love from
Alps').

On 28 Jan, 20:53, sprocket  wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
> How on earth could these words possibly
>
> > matter to us as they reflect a figment of human imagination and not
> > reality or scientifically verifiable truth?
>
> Look behind you......
>
> Ghosts etc. might not exist, but they make for good stories. I recommend
> that you read some of M.R. James' stories. This is a good one:http://www.fadl12200.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/mrjframes.html.
>
> JS

On 26 Jan, 02:53, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> FCS wrote:
> > On Jan 25, 1:04 am, Molly Mockford 
> > wrote:
> >> At 15:43:39 on Thu, 24 Jan 2008, FCS  wrote
> >> in
> >> :
>
> >>> Moving into a Tolkein-esque reading of the words
> >>> were Wraiths, as in the Ring Wraiths, ever but
> >>> wraiths? Or were they, too, the intangible essences
> >>> of once-living but now dead life?
>
> >>> If so then no fair treatment of the subject would
> >>> omit "Wights", after which I surmise the Isle of
> >>> Wight is named and presumed the most haunted place
> >>> in Britain. As its Latin name was "Ventnor" there
> >>> is no obvious link to Lingua Romanes.
>
> >> I would venture to suggest that you should move out of
> >> Tolkien(sic)-esque mode. JRRT was deeply immersed in the cultural
> >> linguistics of many languages, and in LOTR he played fun games with
> >> that knowledge, for his enjoyment and ours.
>
> >> Wight means man, person, living being. Nothing more, nothing less.
> >> The fact that Tolkien used it for his own purposes in LOTR does not
> >> mean
> >> that the word relates in any way whatsoever to the dead or to the
> >> undead.
>
> > I shall have to check out the fuller version
> > but the OED I'm using gives a second definition
> > as "spirit/ghost" with a poetic/literary usage.
>
> > Appearing in Tolkein does not satisfy the OED
> > requirements. Thus Tolkein did not originate
> > this usage. TSR and Gary Gygax are not considered
> > to be poetic/literary; and it's hardly a term I
> > keep reading in the Diary pages of the Daily Mail.
>
> > Have you ever being diagnosed as suffering from
> > AECMA by the way?
>
> Association Europeene des Constructeurs de Materiel Aerospatial?
> --
> John Briggs

With your takes on AECMA, the ghost synonyms, and Lotus Sprite, I feel
you deserve the distinction of the most resourceful member of this
group, John Briggs. (I mean it from the bottom of my heart.)

Paul wrote:
> But give
> me Wodehouse, Jeffery Archer,  'Illusions', or 'Da Vincy Code' and
> I'll give the ghosts the go by. 

I don't know what 'Illusions' is, but the mere mention of Archer and 
Brown in the same sentence as Wodehouse and M. R. James is blasphemy.

JS

Paul wrote...

> I still do not know what 'Mist' means in German. The only German words
> I know are Blaupunkt (which a friend told me, means Blue Dot) and
> Alpen Liebe (a different friend said it translates to 'Love from
> Alps').

http://tinyurl.com/36jeej
There are abundant references to this particular faux pas on the web, but I 
have not found an authoritative one. I had the story from one of my 
mechanics lecturers at Cambridge in the mid Sixties, shortly after the 
event. He was a consultant for Rolls Royce.
-- 
Noel

At 04:48:02 on Thu, 31 Jan 2008, Paul  wrote in 
:

>Well, it's the quote below with the interesting reference to the Rolls
>Royce models that I felt bears a trace of light hearted banter, Molly.

Thank you, Paul.  May I, in that case, ask you a favour?  Please, 
please, please - don't top-post.  Quotes should always be "above", never 
"below"!

>And I can swear, when I looked at it first, it came with a
>'rider' (typed specially in a light pink box below the original
>message) which stated for all those who cared to read, that the author
>does not want this message archived and this message will disappear in
>a span of exactly seven days!

This sounds as though it is a function of the infamous GoogleGroups 
interface, and not of actual newsreading software.  No doubt Google, as 
so often, got it wrong :-(
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

Paul schrieb:

<snip>
> 
> I still do not know what 'Mist' means in German. The only German words
> I know are Blaupunkt (which a friend told me, means Blue Dot) and
> Alpen Liebe (a different friend said it translates to 'Love from
> Alps').
> 
It's basic meaning "dung", "crap", "shit". It is also used in the same 
way as the word "bullshit" is used in English and is a fairly mild 
expletive meaning something like "Bugger!", "Bollocks!" or "Damn!" The 
phrase "So ein Mist! corresponds to "What a bummer!" - "Verdammter 
Mist!" corresponds to "Bloody hell!" or "Sod it"!

You can perhaps see why a fragrance called "Scotch Mist" might not have 
a massive appeal here in Germany. In one of the local bars they have a 
bottle of the licqueur "Irish Mist" - they've had it for years as an 
English acquaintance is the only person who ever drinks it and then only 
very occasionally!

Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

On 31 Jan, 22:13, sprocket  wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> > But give
> > me Wodehouse, Jeffery Archer,  'Illusions', or 'Da Vincy Code' and
> > I'll give the ghosts the go by.
>
> I don't know what 'Illusions' is, but the mere mention of Archer and
> Brown in the same sentence as Wodehouse and M. R. James is blasphemy.
>
> JS

Typing it out one late night, bleary eyed as I was and short of ideas,
I almost knew I was asking for it!

I meant Richard Bach's 'Illusions', 'Jonathan Livingston Seagull',
'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' and books in the same
category.

sprocket wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> But give
>> me Wodehouse, Jeffery Archer,  'Illusions', or 'Da Vincy Code' and
>> I'll give the ghosts the go by.
>
> I don't know what 'Illusions' is, but the mere mention of Archer and
> Brown in the same sentence as Wodehouse and M. R. James is blasphemy.

Maybe so, but did you notice that he is mispronouncing "Da Vinci"?

(I get few opportunities to correct pronunciation on Usenet...)
-- 
John Briggs

Paul wrote:
> On 26 Jan, 02:53, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>> FCS wrote:
>>> On Jan 25, 1:04 am, Molly Mockford
>>>  wrote:
>>>> At 15:43:39 on Thu, 24 Jan 2008, FCS 
>>>> wrote in
>>>> :
>>
>>>>> Moving into a Tolkein-esque reading of the words
>>>>> were Wraiths, as in the Ring Wraiths, ever but
>>>>> wraiths? Or were they, too, the intangible essences
>>>>> of once-living but now dead life?
>>
>>>>> If so then no fair treatment of the subject would
>>>>> omit "Wights", after which I surmise the Isle of
>>>>> Wight is named and presumed the most haunted place
>>>>> in Britain. As its Latin name was "Ventnor" there
>>>>> is no obvious link to Lingua Romanes.
>>
>>>> I would venture to suggest that you should move out of
>>>> Tolkien(sic)-esque mode. JRRT was deeply immersed in the cultural
>>>> linguistics of many languages, and in LOTR he played fun games with
>>>> that knowledge, for his enjoyment and ours.
>>
>>>> Wight means man, person, living being. Nothing more, nothing less.
>>>> The fact that Tolkien used it for his own purposes in LOTR does not
>>>> mean
>>>> that the word relates in any way whatsoever to the dead or to the
>>>> undead.
>>
>>> I shall have to check out the fuller version
>>> but the OED I'm using gives a second definition
>>> as "spirit/ghost" with a poetic/literary usage.
>>
>>> Appearing in Tolkein does not satisfy the OED
>>> requirements. Thus Tolkein did not originate
>>> this usage. TSR and Gary Gygax are not considered
>>> to be poetic/literary; and it's hardly a term I
>>> keep reading in the Diary pages of the Daily Mail.
>>
>>> Have you ever being diagnosed as suffering from
>>> AECMA by the way?
>>
>> Association Europeene des Constructeurs de Materiel Aerospatial?
>
> With your takes on AECMA, the ghost synonyms, and Lotus Sprite, I feel
> you deserve the distinction of the most resourceful member of this
> group, John Briggs. (I mean it from the bottom of my heart.)

Nah, the others just aren't trying :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> Maybe so, but did you notice that he is mispronouncing "Da Vinci"?
> 

naa, I can't hear people on Usenet, it's too noisy. I thought everyone 
knew that he was really an Irishman called Leonard O'Binchy. And how do 
YOU pronounce van Gogh?

> John Briggs wrote:
> > Maybe so, but did you notice that he is mispronouncing "Da Vinci"?
> . And how do
> YOU pronounce van Gogh?

I don't tune in to usernet audio either, but I thought Da Vincy was
pronounced (oops... can't type   Phoentic script on my keyboard)
something like  ' Thaa Veen Chi' with  stress on 'Veen'. What was that
bit about Ireland? I hope it was a joke. (Being a nonnative user of
English, sometimes they fly right over my head.). And Van Gogh, to my
knowledge, which is limited, (humility just happens to be my weakness)
is pronounced 'Van Gof' with stress on 'Van' and 'Gof'. (One of those
compound things that take two primary stresses). I have a digital
version of Van Gogh's 'Wheatfields with Crows' in my comp which will
happily be shared with any art buff in the group.

Paul.

On 1 Feb, 18:11, Paul  wrote:
> > John Briggs wrote:
> > > Maybe so, but did you notice that he is mispronouncing "Da Vinci"?
> > . And how do
> > YOU pronounce van Gogh?
>
> I don't tune in to usernet audio either, but I thought Da Vincy was
> pronounced (oops... can't type   Phoentic script on my keyboard)
> something like  ' Thaa Veen Chi' with  stress on 'Veen'. What was that
> bit about Ireland? I hope it was a joke. (Being a nonnative user of
> English, sometimes they fly right over my head.). And Van Gogh, to my
> knowledge, which is limited, (humility just happens to be my weakness)
> is pronounced 'Van Gof' with stress on 'Van' and 'Gof'. (One of those
> compound things that take two primary stresses). I have a digital
> version of Van Gogh's 'Wheatfields with Crows' in my comp which will
> happily be shared with any art buff in the group.
>
> Paul.

stop press: wikipedia gives the Dutch pronunciation of Van Gogh as
'Feen-Sensh-Faan-Hoff'
Any takers?

At 05:11:54 on Fri, 1 Feb 2008, Paul  wrote in 
:

>And Van Gogh, to my
>knowledge, which is limited, (humility just happens to be my weakness)
>is pronounced 'Van Gof' with stress on 'Van' and 'Gof'.

Well done - that's the Commonwealth English way.  In US English, for 
some reason, they say "Van Go".
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

In uk.culture.language.english on Fri, 1 Feb 2008 19:00:30 +0000, Molly
Mockford  wrote:

}At 05:11:54 on Fri, 1 Feb 2008, Paul  wrote in 
}:
}
}>And Van Gogh, to my
}>knowledge, which is limited, (humility just happens to be my weakness)
}>is pronounced 'Van Gof' with stress on 'Van' and 'Gof'.
}
}Well done - that's the Commonwealth English way.  In US English, for 
}some reason, they say "Van Go".

When did the pronunciation of Bodicea change from what I was taught
Bo-Dise-eeaa too Boo-dick-a ?

{R}

In article ,
 {R}  writes:
>
>When did the pronunciation of Bodicea change from what I was taught
>Bo-Dise-eeaa too Boo-dick-a ?

The following link explains the reason for the change in spelling and
pronunciation of her name, though it doesn't give a precise date
(presumably it would take several decades for everyone to adopt the
revised form):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boadicea#Boudica.27s_name

Of course Wikipedia isn't always to be relied on, but the piece is well
references and seems convincing.
-- 
John Hall
            "Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin"
            attributed to Sir Josiah Stamp,
            a former director of the Bank of England

At 20:30:14 on Fri, 1 Feb 2008, {R}  wrote in 
:

>When did the pronunciation of Bodicea change from what I was taught
>Bo-Dise-eeaa too Boo-dick-a ?

Probably when the accepted spelling changed from Boadicea to Boudicca. I 
suspect (although I ought to go check - even Wikipedia would do) that 
the former is the Romanised version, and the latter is closer to how her 
name would actually have been as pronounced by the Iceni.  History is 
written by the winners, and in the end the Romans won :-(
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)