I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.

It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.

The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a friendly 
nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.

Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to avoid 
using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly science fiction 
programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the use of f... etc.)


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>> niss!'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
>> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>
> 
> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
> 

Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it would not 
have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the word slightly did 
allow them to use it more forcefully than would have been possible with 'nit'.

Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a result 
of it being featured in a remarkable television series.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
>>> niss!'.
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and
> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme
>>> to avoid using a 'real' swear-word?
>>
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word
>> in Britain.
>
> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
guess?
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> Richard Polhill wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>>> niss!'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>>
>>>
>>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and 
>>> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>>
>>
>> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
>>
> 
> Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it 
> would not have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the 
> word slightly did allow them to use it more forcefully than would have 
> been possible with 'nit'.
> 
> Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a 
> result of it being featured in a remarkable television series.
> 
> 

I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening to a 
1960's recording.

Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps somebody 
will actually have access to the scripts...

In article <uKV6i.4147$J15.1123@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs  wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> >
> > The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> > character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> > primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> > English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
wrote:

>Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>
>> 
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>> Eunice Carne?
>
>
>It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>syllable as part of their name).
>
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>> 
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>> Britain.
>
>
>The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
"nish":
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm

    nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.

OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".

"Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
local coining, or something else.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

Richard Polhill wrote:

> I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening 
> to a 1960's recording.

I gathered as much, but do not think so as it appears a number of times and the 
sound is generally quite good.


> Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps 
> somebody will actually have access to the scripts...


It isn't a secret LOL
The series is Big Breadwinner Hog.

My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  Access to 
the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or earlier meaning, 
if it had one.

-- 
Blue Sow

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Because the question is about the word and its meaning.  I have given the 
programme name above which you were never asked (or forced) to guess.


-- 
Blue Sow

Tony Mountifield wrote:

> 
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
> be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
> heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
> 

Indeed (-:

I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area where it 
was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.


-- 
Blue Sow

Peter Duncanson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
> wrote:
> 
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>>> Eunice Carne?
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>> less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>> syllable as part of their name).
>>
>>
>>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>>> Britain.
>>
>> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>> uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>> with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>> It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
> "nish":
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm
> 
>     nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.
> 
> OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".
> 
> "Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
> local coining, or something else.
> 

That looks quite promising and really helpful.  Thank you so much.  I shall 
follow that trail and see where it leads.

-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that
>> it could be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of
>> which I have ever heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
>>
>
> Indeed (-:
>
> I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
> I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area
> where it was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.

A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
please confirm that you have checked those first.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.
>
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
> niss!'.
> The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a
> friendly nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.
>
> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly
> science fiction programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the
> use of f... etc.)

Yes, it's most likely a nonce-word used instead of some other word that 
might have been judged unacceptable.  In his novel "Myron" (a sequel to 
"Myra Breckinridge") Gore Vidal replaced rude words by the names of Supreme 
Court Justices - I think you can probably imagine what an enormous rehnquist 
is :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
> please confirm that you have checked those first.


Obviously, I have checked those that relate to the episodes which I have 
watched, bearing in mind the set of scripts is incomplete.  In most cases, the 
word and the phrase in which it was uttered are not mentioned.  There is no full 
script for the episode which contains my original quote of 'you niss!'.  Certain 
handwritten documents are not in a hand that I can read.

A direct quote from episode three however has 'The poor old niss.' when 
referring to someone he considers to be beneath him.  That reference appears in 
the rehearsal script but not in the performance script. Both versions are not 
available for every episode.

As stated elsewhere, the scripts would show spellings and I offered two options 
in the subject line.

But this does not help with my enquiry into the origins, and meanings, of the 
word 'niss' or 'nis' unless as I suggested previously, it was a word devised to 
represent something akin to 'bastard' without the need to swear on television. 
That would seem overly squeamish given the acid incident in episode one.

I am following up the suggestion by PD for the moment.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>> niss!'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
>> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>
> 
> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
> 

Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it would not 
have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the word slightly did 
allow them to use it more forcefully than would have been possible with 'nit'.

Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a result 
of it being featured in a remarkable television series.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
>>> niss!'.
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and
> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme
>>> to avoid using a 'real' swear-word?
>>
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word
>> in Britain.
>
> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
guess?
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> Richard Polhill wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>>> niss!'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>>
>>>
>>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and 
>>> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>>
>>
>> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
>>
> 
> Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it 
> would not have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the 
> word slightly did allow them to use it more forcefully than would have 
> been possible with 'nit'.
> 
> Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a 
> result of it being featured in a remarkable television series.
> 
> 

I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening to a 
1960's recording.

Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps somebody 
will actually have access to the scripts...

In article <uKV6i.4147$J15.1123@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs  wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> >
> > The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> > character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> > primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> > English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
wrote:

>Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>
>> 
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>> Eunice Carne?
>
>
>It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>syllable as part of their name).
>
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>> 
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>> Britain.
>
>
>The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
"nish":
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm

    nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.

OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".

"Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
local coining, or something else.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

Richard Polhill wrote:

> I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening 
> to a 1960's recording.

I gathered as much, but do not think so as it appears a number of times and the 
sound is generally quite good.


> Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps 
> somebody will actually have access to the scripts...


It isn't a secret LOL
The series is Big Breadwinner Hog.

My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  Access to 
the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or earlier meaning, 
if it had one.

-- 
Blue Sow

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Because the question is about the word and its meaning.  I have given the 
programme name above which you were never asked (or forced) to guess.


-- 
Blue Sow

Tony Mountifield wrote:

> 
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
> be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
> heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
> 

Indeed (-:

I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area where it 
was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.


-- 
Blue Sow

Peter Duncanson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
> wrote:
> 
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>>> Eunice Carne?
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>> less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>> syllable as part of their name).
>>
>>
>>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>>> Britain.
>>
>> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>> uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>> with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>> It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
> "nish":
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm
> 
>     nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.
> 
> OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".
> 
> "Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
> local coining, or something else.
> 

That looks quite promising and really helpful.  Thank you so much.  I shall 
follow that trail and see where it leads.

-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that
>> it could be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of
>> which I have ever heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
>>
>
> Indeed (-:
>
> I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
> I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area
> where it was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.

A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
please confirm that you have checked those first.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.
>
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
> niss!'.
> The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a
> friendly nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.
>
> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly
> science fiction programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the
> use of f... etc.)

Yes, it's most likely a nonce-word used instead of some other word that 
might have been judged unacceptable.  In his novel "Myron" (a sequel to 
"Myra Breckinridge") Gore Vidal replaced rude words by the names of Supreme 
Court Justices - I think you can probably imagine what an enormous rehnquist 
is :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
> please confirm that you have checked those first.


Obviously, I have checked those that relate to the episodes which I have 
watched, bearing in mind the set of scripts is incomplete.  In most cases, the 
word and the phrase in which it was uttered are not mentioned.  There is no full 
script for the episode which contains my original quote of 'you niss!'.  Certain 
handwritten documents are not in a hand that I can read.

A direct quote from episode three however has 'The poor old niss.' when 
referring to someone he considers to be beneath him.  That reference appears in 
the rehearsal script but not in the performance script. Both versions are not 
available for every episode.

As stated elsewhere, the scripts would show spellings and I offered two options 
in the subject line.

But this does not help with my enquiry into the origins, and meanings, of the 
word 'niss' or 'nis' unless as I suggested previously, it was a word devised to 
represent something akin to 'bastard' without the need to swear on television. 
That would seem overly squeamish given the acid incident in episode one.

I am following up the suggestion by PD for the moment.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>> niss!'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
>> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>
> 
> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
> 

Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it would not 
have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the word slightly did 
allow them to use it more forcefully than would have been possible with 'nit'.

Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a result 
of it being featured in a remarkable television series.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
>>> niss!'.
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and
> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme
>>> to avoid using a 'real' swear-word?
>>
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word
>> in Britain.
>
> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
guess?
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> Richard Polhill wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>>> niss!'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>>
>>>
>>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and 
>>> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>>
>>
>> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
>>
> 
> Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it 
> would not have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the 
> word slightly did allow them to use it more forcefully than would have 
> been possible with 'nit'.
> 
> Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a 
> result of it being featured in a remarkable television series.
> 
> 

I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening to a 
1960's recording.

Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps somebody 
will actually have access to the scripts...

In article <uKV6i.4147$J15.1123@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs  wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> >
> > The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> > character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> > primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> > English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
wrote:

>Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>
>> 
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>> Eunice Carne?
>
>
>It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>syllable as part of their name).
>
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>> 
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>> Britain.
>
>
>The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
"nish":
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm

    nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.

OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".

"Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
local coining, or something else.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

Richard Polhill wrote:

> I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening 
> to a 1960's recording.

I gathered as much, but do not think so as it appears a number of times and the 
sound is generally quite good.


> Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps 
> somebody will actually have access to the scripts...


It isn't a secret LOL
The series is Big Breadwinner Hog.

My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  Access to 
the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or earlier meaning, 
if it had one.

-- 
Blue Sow

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Because the question is about the word and its meaning.  I have given the 
programme name above which you were never asked (or forced) to guess.


-- 
Blue Sow

Tony Mountifield wrote:

> 
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
> be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
> heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
> 

Indeed (-:

I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area where it 
was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.


-- 
Blue Sow

Peter Duncanson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
> wrote:
> 
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>>> Eunice Carne?
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>> less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>> syllable as part of their name).
>>
>>
>>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>>> Britain.
>>
>> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>> uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>> with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>> It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
> "nish":
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm
> 
>     nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.
> 
> OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".
> 
> "Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
> local coining, or something else.
> 

That looks quite promising and really helpful.  Thank you so much.  I shall 
follow that trail and see where it leads.

-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that
>> it could be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of
>> which I have ever heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
>>
>
> Indeed (-:
>
> I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
> I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area
> where it was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.

A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
please confirm that you have checked those first.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.
>
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
> niss!'.
> The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a
> friendly nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.
>
> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly
> science fiction programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the
> use of f... etc.)

Yes, it's most likely a nonce-word used instead of some other word that 
might have been judged unacceptable.  In his novel "Myron" (a sequel to 
"Myra Breckinridge") Gore Vidal replaced rude words by the names of Supreme 
Court Justices - I think you can probably imagine what an enormous rehnquist 
is :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
> please confirm that you have checked those first.


Obviously, I have checked those that relate to the episodes which I have 
watched, bearing in mind the set of scripts is incomplete.  In most cases, the 
word and the phrase in which it was uttered are not mentioned.  There is no full 
script for the episode which contains my original quote of 'you niss!'.  Certain 
handwritten documents are not in a hand that I can read.

A direct quote from episode three however has 'The poor old niss.' when 
referring to someone he considers to be beneath him.  That reference appears in 
the rehearsal script but not in the performance script. Both versions are not 
available for every episode.

As stated elsewhere, the scripts would show spellings and I offered two options 
in the subject line.

But this does not help with my enquiry into the origins, and meanings, of the 
word 'niss' or 'nis' unless as I suggested previously, it was a word devised to 
represent something akin to 'bastard' without the need to swear on television. 
That would seem overly squeamish given the acid incident in episode one.

I am following up the suggestion by PD for the moment.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:

> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or 
> earlier meaning, if it had one.
> 

I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> 
>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins 
>> or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>
> 
> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
> one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
> the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.
> 
> Paul Burke

Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>> niss!'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
>> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>
> 
> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
> 

Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it would not 
have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the word slightly did 
allow them to use it more forcefully than would have been possible with 'nit'.

Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a result 
of it being featured in a remarkable television series.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
>>> niss!'.
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and
> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme
>>> to avoid using a 'real' swear-word?
>>
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word
>> in Britain.
>
> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
guess?
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> Richard Polhill wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>>> niss!'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>>
>>>
>>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and 
>>> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>>
>>
>> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
>>
> 
> Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it 
> would not have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the 
> word slightly did allow them to use it more forcefully than would have 
> been possible with 'nit'.
> 
> Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a 
> result of it being featured in a remarkable television series.
> 
> 

I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening to a 
1960's recording.

Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps somebody 
will actually have access to the scripts...

In article <uKV6i.4147$J15.1123@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs  wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> >
> > The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> > character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> > primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> > English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
wrote:

>Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>
>> 
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>> Eunice Carne?
>
>
>It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>syllable as part of their name).
>
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>> 
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>> Britain.
>
>
>The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
"nish":
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm

    nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.

OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".

"Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
local coining, or something else.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

Richard Polhill wrote:

> I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening 
> to a 1960's recording.

I gathered as much, but do not think so as it appears a number of times and the 
sound is generally quite good.


> Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps 
> somebody will actually have access to the scripts...


It isn't a secret LOL
The series is Big Breadwinner Hog.

My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  Access to 
the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or earlier meaning, 
if it had one.

-- 
Blue Sow

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Because the question is about the word and its meaning.  I have given the 
programme name above which you were never asked (or forced) to guess.


-- 
Blue Sow

Tony Mountifield wrote:

> 
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
> be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
> heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
> 

Indeed (-:

I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area where it 
was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.


-- 
Blue Sow

Peter Duncanson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
> wrote:
> 
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>>> Eunice Carne?
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>> less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>> syllable as part of their name).
>>
>>
>>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>>> Britain.
>>
>> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>> uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>> with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>> It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
> "nish":
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm
> 
>     nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.
> 
> OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".
> 
> "Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
> local coining, or something else.
> 

That looks quite promising and really helpful.  Thank you so much.  I shall 
follow that trail and see where it leads.

-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that
>> it could be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of
>> which I have ever heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
>>
>
> Indeed (-:
>
> I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
> I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area
> where it was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.

A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
please confirm that you have checked those first.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.
>
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
> niss!'.
> The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a
> friendly nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.
>
> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly
> science fiction programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the
> use of f... etc.)

Yes, it's most likely a nonce-word used instead of some other word that 
might have been judged unacceptable.  In his novel "Myron" (a sequel to 
"Myra Breckinridge") Gore Vidal replaced rude words by the names of Supreme 
Court Justices - I think you can probably imagine what an enormous rehnquist 
is :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
> please confirm that you have checked those first.


Obviously, I have checked those that relate to the episodes which I have 
watched, bearing in mind the set of scripts is incomplete.  In most cases, the 
word and the phrase in which it was uttered are not mentioned.  There is no full 
script for the episode which contains my original quote of 'you niss!'.  Certain 
handwritten documents are not in a hand that I can read.

A direct quote from episode three however has 'The poor old niss.' when 
referring to someone he considers to be beneath him.  That reference appears in 
the rehearsal script but not in the performance script. Both versions are not 
available for every episode.

As stated elsewhere, the scripts would show spellings and I offered two options 
in the subject line.

But this does not help with my enquiry into the origins, and meanings, of the 
word 'niss' or 'nis' unless as I suggested previously, it was a word devised to 
represent something akin to 'bastard' without the need to swear on television. 
That would seem overly squeamish given the acid incident in episode one.

I am following up the suggestion by PD for the moment.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:

> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or 
> earlier meaning, if it had one.
> 

I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> 
>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins 
>> or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>
> 
> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
> one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
> the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.
> 
> Paul Burke

Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>
>>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.
>>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its
>>> origins or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>>
>>
>> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either
>> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that
>> it's a one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed
>> unacceptable by the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary
>> Whitehouse was in full pomp. Paul Burke
>
> Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

We did get Blue Sow to admit to seeing "The poor niss." in a script.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>> niss!'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
>> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>
> 
> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
> 

Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it would not 
have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the word slightly did 
allow them to use it more forcefully than would have been possible with 'nit'.

Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a result 
of it being featured in a remarkable television series.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
>>> niss!'.
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and
> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme
>>> to avoid using a 'real' swear-word?
>>
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word
>> in Britain.
>
> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
guess?
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> Richard Polhill wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>>> niss!'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>>
>>>
>>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and 
>>> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>>
>>
>> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
>>
> 
> Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it 
> would not have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the 
> word slightly did allow them to use it more forcefully than would have 
> been possible with 'nit'.
> 
> Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a 
> result of it being featured in a remarkable television series.
> 
> 

I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening to a 
1960's recording.

Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps somebody 
will actually have access to the scripts...

In article <uKV6i.4147$J15.1123@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs  wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> >
> > The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> > character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> > primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> > English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
wrote:

>Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>
>> 
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>> Eunice Carne?
>
>
>It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>syllable as part of their name).
>
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>> 
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>> Britain.
>
>
>The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
"nish":
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm

    nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.

OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".

"Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
local coining, or something else.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

Richard Polhill wrote:

> I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening 
> to a 1960's recording.

I gathered as much, but do not think so as it appears a number of times and the 
sound is generally quite good.


> Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps 
> somebody will actually have access to the scripts...


It isn't a secret LOL
The series is Big Breadwinner Hog.

My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  Access to 
the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or earlier meaning, 
if it had one.

-- 
Blue Sow

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Because the question is about the word and its meaning.  I have given the 
programme name above which you were never asked (or forced) to guess.


-- 
Blue Sow

Tony Mountifield wrote:

> 
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
> be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
> heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
> 

Indeed (-:

I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area where it 
was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.


-- 
Blue Sow

Peter Duncanson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
> wrote:
> 
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>>> Eunice Carne?
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>> less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>> syllable as part of their name).
>>
>>
>>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>>> Britain.
>>
>> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>> uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>> with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>> It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
> "nish":
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm
> 
>     nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.
> 
> OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".
> 
> "Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
> local coining, or something else.
> 

That looks quite promising and really helpful.  Thank you so much.  I shall 
follow that trail and see where it leads.

-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that
>> it could be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of
>> which I have ever heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
>>
>
> Indeed (-:
>
> I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
> I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area
> where it was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.

A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
please confirm that you have checked those first.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.
>
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
> niss!'.
> The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a
> friendly nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.
>
> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly
> science fiction programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the
> use of f... etc.)

Yes, it's most likely a nonce-word used instead of some other word that 
might have been judged unacceptable.  In his novel "Myron" (a sequel to 
"Myra Breckinridge") Gore Vidal replaced rude words by the names of Supreme 
Court Justices - I think you can probably imagine what an enormous rehnquist 
is :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
> please confirm that you have checked those first.


Obviously, I have checked those that relate to the episodes which I have 
watched, bearing in mind the set of scripts is incomplete.  In most cases, the 
word and the phrase in which it was uttered are not mentioned.  There is no full 
script for the episode which contains my original quote of 'you niss!'.  Certain 
handwritten documents are not in a hand that I can read.

A direct quote from episode three however has 'The poor old niss.' when 
referring to someone he considers to be beneath him.  That reference appears in 
the rehearsal script but not in the performance script. Both versions are not 
available for every episode.

As stated elsewhere, the scripts would show spellings and I offered two options 
in the subject line.

But this does not help with my enquiry into the origins, and meanings, of the 
word 'niss' or 'nis' unless as I suggested previously, it was a word devised to 
represent something akin to 'bastard' without the need to swear on television. 
That would seem overly squeamish given the acid incident in episode one.

I am following up the suggestion by PD for the moment.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:

> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or 
> earlier meaning, if it had one.
> 

I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> 
>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins 
>> or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>
> 
> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
> one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
> the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.
> 
> Paul Burke

Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>
>>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.
>>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its
>>> origins or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>>
>>
>> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either
>> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that
>> it's a one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed
>> unacceptable by the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary
>> Whitehouse was in full pomp. Paul Burke
>
> Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

We did get Blue Sow to admit to seeing "The poor niss." in a script.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>> niss!'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
>> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>
> 
> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
> 

Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it would not 
have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the word slightly did 
allow them to use it more forcefully than would have been possible with 'nit'.

Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a result 
of it being featured in a remarkable television series.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
>>> niss!'.
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and
> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme
>>> to avoid using a 'real' swear-word?
>>
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word
>> in Britain.
>
> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
guess?
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> Richard Polhill wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>>> niss!'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>>
>>>
>>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and 
>>> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>>
>>
>> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
>>
> 
> Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it 
> would not have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the 
> word slightly did allow them to use it more forcefully than would have 
> been possible with 'nit'.
> 
> Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a 
> result of it being featured in a remarkable television series.
> 
> 

I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening to a 
1960's recording.

Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps somebody 
will actually have access to the scripts...

In article <uKV6i.4147$J15.1123@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs  wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> >
> > The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> > character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> > primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> > English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
wrote:

>Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>
>> 
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>> Eunice Carne?
>
>
>It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>syllable as part of their name).
>
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>> 
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>> Britain.
>
>
>The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
"nish":
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm

    nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.

OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".

"Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
local coining, or something else.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

Richard Polhill wrote:

> I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening 
> to a 1960's recording.

I gathered as much, but do not think so as it appears a number of times and the 
sound is generally quite good.


> Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps 
> somebody will actually have access to the scripts...


It isn't a secret LOL
The series is Big Breadwinner Hog.

My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  Access to 
the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or earlier meaning, 
if it had one.

-- 
Blue Sow

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Because the question is about the word and its meaning.  I have given the 
programme name above which you were never asked (or forced) to guess.


-- 
Blue Sow

Tony Mountifield wrote:

> 
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
> be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
> heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
> 

Indeed (-:

I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area where it 
was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.


-- 
Blue Sow

Peter Duncanson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
> wrote:
> 
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>>> Eunice Carne?
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>> less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>> syllable as part of their name).
>>
>>
>>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>>> Britain.
>>
>> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>> uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>> with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>> It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
> "nish":
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm
> 
>     nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.
> 
> OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".
> 
> "Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
> local coining, or something else.
> 

That looks quite promising and really helpful.  Thank you so much.  I shall 
follow that trail and see where it leads.

-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that
>> it could be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of
>> which I have ever heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
>>
>
> Indeed (-:
>
> I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
> I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area
> where it was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.

A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
please confirm that you have checked those first.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.
>
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
> niss!'.
> The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a
> friendly nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.
>
> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly
> science fiction programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the
> use of f... etc.)

Yes, it's most likely a nonce-word used instead of some other word that 
might have been judged unacceptable.  In his novel "Myron" (a sequel to 
"Myra Breckinridge") Gore Vidal replaced rude words by the names of Supreme 
Court Justices - I think you can probably imagine what an enormous rehnquist 
is :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
> please confirm that you have checked those first.


Obviously, I have checked those that relate to the episodes which I have 
watched, bearing in mind the set of scripts is incomplete.  In most cases, the 
word and the phrase in which it was uttered are not mentioned.  There is no full 
script for the episode which contains my original quote of 'you niss!'.  Certain 
handwritten documents are not in a hand that I can read.

A direct quote from episode three however has 'The poor old niss.' when 
referring to someone he considers to be beneath him.  That reference appears in 
the rehearsal script but not in the performance script. Both versions are not 
available for every episode.

As stated elsewhere, the scripts would show spellings and I offered two options 
in the subject line.

But this does not help with my enquiry into the origins, and meanings, of the 
word 'niss' or 'nis' unless as I suggested previously, it was a word devised to 
represent something akin to 'bastard' without the need to swear on television. 
That would seem overly squeamish given the acid incident in episode one.

I am following up the suggestion by PD for the moment.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:

> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or 
> earlier meaning, if it had one.
> 

I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> 
>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins 
>> or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>
> 
> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
> one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
> the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.
> 
> Paul Burke

Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>
>>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.
>>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its
>>> origins or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>>
>>
>> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either
>> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that
>> it's a one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed
>> unacceptable by the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary
>> Whitehouse was in full pomp. Paul Burke
>
> Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

We did get Blue Sow to admit to seeing "The poor niss." in a script.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>> niss!'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
>> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>
> 
> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
> 

Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it would not 
have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the word slightly did 
allow them to use it more forcefully than would have been possible with 'nit'.

Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a result 
of it being featured in a remarkable television series.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
>>> niss!'.
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and
> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme
>>> to avoid using a 'real' swear-word?
>>
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word
>> in Britain.
>
> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
guess?
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> Richard Polhill wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>>> niss!'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>>
>>>
>>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and 
>>> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>>
>>
>> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
>>
> 
> Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it 
> would not have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the 
> word slightly did allow them to use it more forcefully than would have 
> been possible with 'nit'.
> 
> Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a 
> result of it being featured in a remarkable television series.
> 
> 

I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening to a 
1960's recording.

Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps somebody 
will actually have access to the scripts...

In article <uKV6i.4147$J15.1123@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs  wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> >
> > The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> > character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> > primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> > English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
wrote:

>Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>
>> 
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>> Eunice Carne?
>
>
>It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>syllable as part of their name).
>
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>> 
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>> Britain.
>
>
>The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
"nish":
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm

    nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.

OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".

"Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
local coining, or something else.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

Richard Polhill wrote:

> I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening 
> to a 1960's recording.

I gathered as much, but do not think so as it appears a number of times and the 
sound is generally quite good.


> Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps 
> somebody will actually have access to the scripts...


It isn't a secret LOL
The series is Big Breadwinner Hog.

My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  Access to 
the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or earlier meaning, 
if it had one.

-- 
Blue Sow

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Because the question is about the word and its meaning.  I have given the 
programme name above which you were never asked (or forced) to guess.


-- 
Blue Sow

Tony Mountifield wrote:

> 
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
> be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
> heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
> 

Indeed (-:

I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area where it 
was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.


-- 
Blue Sow

Peter Duncanson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
> wrote:
> 
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>>> Eunice Carne?
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>> less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>> syllable as part of their name).
>>
>>
>>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>>> Britain.
>>
>> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>> uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>> with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>> It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
> "nish":
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm
> 
>     nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.
> 
> OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".
> 
> "Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
> local coining, or something else.
> 

That looks quite promising and really helpful.  Thank you so much.  I shall 
follow that trail and see where it leads.

-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that
>> it could be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of
>> which I have ever heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
>>
>
> Indeed (-:
>
> I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
> I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area
> where it was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.

A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
please confirm that you have checked those first.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.
>
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
> niss!'.
> The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a
> friendly nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.
>
> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly
> science fiction programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the
> use of f... etc.)

Yes, it's most likely a nonce-word used instead of some other word that 
might have been judged unacceptable.  In his novel "Myron" (a sequel to 
"Myra Breckinridge") Gore Vidal replaced rude words by the names of Supreme 
Court Justices - I think you can probably imagine what an enormous rehnquist 
is :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
> please confirm that you have checked those first.


Obviously, I have checked those that relate to the episodes which I have 
watched, bearing in mind the set of scripts is incomplete.  In most cases, the 
word and the phrase in which it was uttered are not mentioned.  There is no full 
script for the episode which contains my original quote of 'you niss!'.  Certain 
handwritten documents are not in a hand that I can read.

A direct quote from episode three however has 'The poor old niss.' when 
referring to someone he considers to be beneath him.  That reference appears in 
the rehearsal script but not in the performance script. Both versions are not 
available for every episode.

As stated elsewhere, the scripts would show spellings and I offered two options 
in the subject line.

But this does not help with my enquiry into the origins, and meanings, of the 
word 'niss' or 'nis' unless as I suggested previously, it was a word devised to 
represent something akin to 'bastard' without the need to swear on television. 
That would seem overly squeamish given the acid incident in episode one.

I am following up the suggestion by PD for the moment.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:

> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or 
> earlier meaning, if it had one.
> 

I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> 
>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins 
>> or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>
> 
> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
> one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
> the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.
> 
> Paul Burke

Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>
>>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.
>>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its
>>> origins or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>>
>>
>> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either
>> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that
>> it's a one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed
>> unacceptable by the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary
>> Whitehouse was in full pomp. Paul Burke
>
> Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

We did get Blue Sow to admit to seeing "The poor niss." in a script.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>> niss!'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
>> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>
> 
> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
> 

Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it would not 
have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the word slightly did 
allow them to use it more forcefully than would have been possible with 'nit'.

Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a result 
of it being featured in a remarkable television series.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
>>> niss!'.
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and
> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme
>>> to avoid using a 'real' swear-word?
>>
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word
>> in Britain.
>
> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
guess?
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> Richard Polhill wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>>> niss!'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>>
>>>
>>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and 
>>> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>>
>>
>> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
>>
> 
> Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it 
> would not have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the 
> word slightly did allow them to use it more forcefully than would have 
> been possible with 'nit'.
> 
> Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a 
> result of it being featured in a remarkable television series.
> 
> 

I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening to a 
1960's recording.

Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps somebody 
will actually have access to the scripts...

In article <uKV6i.4147$J15.1123@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs  wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> >
> > The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> > character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> > primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> > English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
wrote:

>Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>
>> 
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>> Eunice Carne?
>
>
>It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>syllable as part of their name).
>
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>> 
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>> Britain.
>
>
>The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
"nish":
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm

    nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.

OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".

"Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
local coining, or something else.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

Richard Polhill wrote:

> I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening 
> to a 1960's recording.

I gathered as much, but do not think so as it appears a number of times and the 
sound is generally quite good.


> Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps 
> somebody will actually have access to the scripts...


It isn't a secret LOL
The series is Big Breadwinner Hog.

My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  Access to 
the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or earlier meaning, 
if it had one.

-- 
Blue Sow

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Because the question is about the word and its meaning.  I have given the 
programme name above which you were never asked (or forced) to guess.


-- 
Blue Sow

Tony Mountifield wrote:

> 
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
> be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
> heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
> 

Indeed (-:

I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area where it 
was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.


-- 
Blue Sow

Peter Duncanson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
> wrote:
> 
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>>> Eunice Carne?
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>> less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>> syllable as part of their name).
>>
>>
>>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>>> Britain.
>>
>> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>> uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>> with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>> It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
> "nish":
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm
> 
>     nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.
> 
> OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".
> 
> "Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
> local coining, or something else.
> 

That looks quite promising and really helpful.  Thank you so much.  I shall 
follow that trail and see where it leads.

-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that
>> it could be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of
>> which I have ever heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
>>
>
> Indeed (-:
>
> I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
> I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area
> where it was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.

A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
please confirm that you have checked those first.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.
>
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
> niss!'.
> The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a
> friendly nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.
>
> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly
> science fiction programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the
> use of f... etc.)

Yes, it's most likely a nonce-word used instead of some other word that 
might have been judged unacceptable.  In his novel "Myron" (a sequel to 
"Myra Breckinridge") Gore Vidal replaced rude words by the names of Supreme 
Court Justices - I think you can probably imagine what an enormous rehnquist 
is :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
> please confirm that you have checked those first.


Obviously, I have checked those that relate to the episodes which I have 
watched, bearing in mind the set of scripts is incomplete.  In most cases, the 
word and the phrase in which it was uttered are not mentioned.  There is no full 
script for the episode which contains my original quote of 'you niss!'.  Certain 
handwritten documents are not in a hand that I can read.

A direct quote from episode three however has 'The poor old niss.' when 
referring to someone he considers to be beneath him.  That reference appears in 
the rehearsal script but not in the performance script. Both versions are not 
available for every episode.

As stated elsewhere, the scripts would show spellings and I offered two options 
in the subject line.

But this does not help with my enquiry into the origins, and meanings, of the 
word 'niss' or 'nis' unless as I suggested previously, it was a word devised to 
represent something akin to 'bastard' without the need to swear on television. 
That would seem overly squeamish given the acid incident in episode one.

I am following up the suggestion by PD for the moment.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:

> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or 
> earlier meaning, if it had one.
> 

I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> 
>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins 
>> or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>
> 
> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
> one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
> the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.
> 
> Paul Burke

Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>
>>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.
>>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its
>>> origins or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>>
>>
>> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either
>> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that
>> it's a one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed
>> unacceptable by the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary
>> Whitehouse was in full pomp. Paul Burke
>
> Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

We did get Blue Sow to admit to seeing "The poor niss." in a script.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>> niss!'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
>> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>
> 
> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
> 

Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it would not 
have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the word slightly did 
allow them to use it more forcefully than would have been possible with 'nit'.

Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a result 
of it being featured in a remarkable television series.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
>>> niss!'.
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and
> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme
>>> to avoid using a 'real' swear-word?
>>
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word
>> in Britain.
>
> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
guess?
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> Richard Polhill wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>>> niss!'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>>
>>>
>>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and 
>>> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>>
>>
>> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
>>
> 
> Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it 
> would not have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the 
> word slightly did allow them to use it more forcefully than would have 
> been possible with 'nit'.
> 
> Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a 
> result of it being featured in a remarkable television series.
> 
> 

I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening to a 
1960's recording.

Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps somebody 
will actually have access to the scripts...

In article <uKV6i.4147$J15.1123@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs  wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> >
> > The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> > character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> > primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> > English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
wrote:

>Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>
>> 
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>> Eunice Carne?
>
>
>It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>syllable as part of their name).
>
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>> 
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>> Britain.
>
>
>The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
"nish":
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm

    nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.

OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".

"Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
local coining, or something else.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

Richard Polhill wrote:

> I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening 
> to a 1960's recording.

I gathered as much, but do not think so as it appears a number of times and the 
sound is generally quite good.


> Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps 
> somebody will actually have access to the scripts...


It isn't a secret LOL
The series is Big Breadwinner Hog.

My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  Access to 
the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or earlier meaning, 
if it had one.

-- 
Blue Sow

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Because the question is about the word and its meaning.  I have given the 
programme name above which you were never asked (or forced) to guess.


-- 
Blue Sow

Tony Mountifield wrote:

> 
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
> be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
> heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
> 

Indeed (-:

I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area where it 
was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.


-- 
Blue Sow

Peter Duncanson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
> wrote:
> 
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>>> Eunice Carne?
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>> less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>> syllable as part of their name).
>>
>>
>>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>>> Britain.
>>
>> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>> uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>> with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>> It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
> "nish":
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm
> 
>     nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.
> 
> OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".
> 
> "Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
> local coining, or something else.
> 

That looks quite promising and really helpful.  Thank you so much.  I shall 
follow that trail and see where it leads.

-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that
>> it could be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of
>> which I have ever heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
>>
>
> Indeed (-:
>
> I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
> I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area
> where it was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.

A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
please confirm that you have checked those first.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.
>
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
> niss!'.
> The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a
> friendly nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.
>
> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly
> science fiction programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the
> use of f... etc.)

Yes, it's most likely a nonce-word used instead of some other word that 
might have been judged unacceptable.  In his novel "Myron" (a sequel to 
"Myra Breckinridge") Gore Vidal replaced rude words by the names of Supreme 
Court Justices - I think you can probably imagine what an enormous rehnquist 
is :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
> please confirm that you have checked those first.


Obviously, I have checked those that relate to the episodes which I have 
watched, bearing in mind the set of scripts is incomplete.  In most cases, the 
word and the phrase in which it was uttered are not mentioned.  There is no full 
script for the episode which contains my original quote of 'you niss!'.  Certain 
handwritten documents are not in a hand that I can read.

A direct quote from episode three however has 'The poor old niss.' when 
referring to someone he considers to be beneath him.  That reference appears in 
the rehearsal script but not in the performance script. Both versions are not 
available for every episode.

As stated elsewhere, the scripts would show spellings and I offered two options 
in the subject line.

But this does not help with my enquiry into the origins, and meanings, of the 
word 'niss' or 'nis' unless as I suggested previously, it was a word devised to 
represent something akin to 'bastard' without the need to swear on television. 
That would seem overly squeamish given the acid incident in episode one.

I am following up the suggestion by PD for the moment.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:

> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or 
> earlier meaning, if it had one.
> 

I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> 
>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins 
>> or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>
> 
> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
> one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
> the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.
> 
> Paul Burke

Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>
>>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.
>>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its
>>> origins or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>>
>>
>> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either
>> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that
>> it's a one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed
>> unacceptable by the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary
>> Whitehouse was in full pomp. Paul Burke
>
> Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

We did get Blue Sow to admit to seeing "The poor niss." in a script.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>> niss!'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
>> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>
> 
> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
> 

Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it would not 
have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the word slightly did 
allow them to use it more forcefully than would have been possible with 'nit'.

Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a result 
of it being featured in a remarkable television series.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
>>> niss!'.
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and
> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme
>>> to avoid using a 'real' swear-word?
>>
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word
>> in Britain.
>
> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
guess?
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> Richard Polhill wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>>> niss!'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>>
>>>
>>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and 
>>> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>>
>>
>> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
>>
> 
> Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it 
> would not have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the 
> word slightly did allow them to use it more forcefully than would have 
> been possible with 'nit'.
> 
> Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a 
> result of it being featured in a remarkable television series.
> 
> 

I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening to a 
1960's recording.

Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps somebody 
will actually have access to the scripts...

In article <uKV6i.4147$J15.1123@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs  wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> >
> > The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> > character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> > primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> > English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
wrote:

>Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>
>> 
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>> Eunice Carne?
>
>
>It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>syllable as part of their name).
>
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>> 
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>> Britain.
>
>
>The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
"nish":
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm

    nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.

OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".

"Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
local coining, or something else.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

Richard Polhill wrote:

> I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening 
> to a 1960's recording.

I gathered as much, but do not think so as it appears a number of times and the 
sound is generally quite good.


> Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps 
> somebody will actually have access to the scripts...


It isn't a secret LOL
The series is Big Breadwinner Hog.

My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  Access to 
the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or earlier meaning, 
if it had one.

-- 
Blue Sow

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Because the question is about the word and its meaning.  I have given the 
programme name above which you were never asked (or forced) to guess.


-- 
Blue Sow

Tony Mountifield wrote:

> 
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
> be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
> heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
> 

Indeed (-:

I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area where it 
was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.


-- 
Blue Sow

Peter Duncanson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
> wrote:
> 
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>>> Eunice Carne?
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>> less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>> syllable as part of their name).
>>
>>
>>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>>> Britain.
>>
>> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>> uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>> with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>> It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
> "nish":
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm
> 
>     nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.
> 
> OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".
> 
> "Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
> local coining, or something else.
> 

That looks quite promising and really helpful.  Thank you so much.  I shall 
follow that trail and see where it leads.

-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that
>> it could be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of
>> which I have ever heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
>>
>
> Indeed (-:
>
> I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
> I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area
> where it was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.

A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
please confirm that you have checked those first.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.
>
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
> niss!'.
> The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a
> friendly nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.
>
> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly
> science fiction programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the
> use of f... etc.)

Yes, it's most likely a nonce-word used instead of some other word that 
might have been judged unacceptable.  In his novel "Myron" (a sequel to 
"Myra Breckinridge") Gore Vidal replaced rude words by the names of Supreme 
Court Justices - I think you can probably imagine what an enormous rehnquist 
is :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
> please confirm that you have checked those first.


Obviously, I have checked those that relate to the episodes which I have 
watched, bearing in mind the set of scripts is incomplete.  In most cases, the 
word and the phrase in which it was uttered are not mentioned.  There is no full 
script for the episode which contains my original quote of 'you niss!'.  Certain 
handwritten documents are not in a hand that I can read.

A direct quote from episode three however has 'The poor old niss.' when 
referring to someone he considers to be beneath him.  That reference appears in 
the rehearsal script but not in the performance script. Both versions are not 
available for every episode.

As stated elsewhere, the scripts would show spellings and I offered two options 
in the subject line.

But this does not help with my enquiry into the origins, and meanings, of the 
word 'niss' or 'nis' unless as I suggested previously, it was a word devised to 
represent something akin to 'bastard' without the need to swear on television. 
That would seem overly squeamish given the acid incident in episode one.

I am following up the suggestion by PD for the moment.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:

> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or 
> earlier meaning, if it had one.
> 

I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> 
>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins 
>> or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>
> 
> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
> one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
> the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.
> 
> Paul Burke

Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>
>>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.
>>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its
>>> origins or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>>
>>
>> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either
>> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that
>> it's a one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed
>> unacceptable by the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary
>> Whitehouse was in full pomp. Paul Burke
>
> Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

We did get Blue Sow to admit to seeing "The poor niss." in a script.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
> 

Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
Eunice Carne?

> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  

Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
Britain.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>
> 
> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
> Eunice Carne?


It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
syllable as part of their name).


>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
> 
> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
> Britain.


The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
It was written by Robin Chapman (British).


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>> niss!'.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
> 
> 
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
> 

Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).

 From the OED:
"2. colloq. Originally: an insignificant, inconsequential, or contemptible 
person. In later use chiefly: spec. a foolish, stupid, or incompetent person. 
Cf. LOUSE n. 2.
   In early use sometimes as a more general term of abuse. The later 
development in meaning may be influenced by NITWIT n."

And on "nitwit":

"A. n. A stupid, silly, or foolish person. Also in extended use as a term of 
abuse or derision.

  B. adj. (attrib.). Stupid, foolish, idiotic."

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>> niss!'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none 
>> of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>
> 
> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
> 

Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it would not 
have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the word slightly did 
allow them to use it more forcefully than would have been possible with 'nit'.

Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a result 
of it being featured in a remarkable television series.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
>>> niss!'.
>>
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the
>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>
> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were
> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and
> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme
>>> to avoid using a 'real' swear-word?
>>
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word
>> in Britain.
>
> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
guess?
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> Richard Polhill wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you 
>>>>> niss!'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the 
>>>> cricketer Eunice Carne?
>>>
>>>
>>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were 
>>> considered less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and 
>>> none of whom had the syllable as part of their name).
>>>
>>
>> Possibly 'nit' or 'nits' (plural).
>>
> 
> Yes, I did consider that it might have been a variation of that as it 
> would not have attracted the attention of the censors.  Changing the 
> word slightly did allow them to use it more forcefully than would have 
> been possible with 'nit'.
> 
> Whatever its origins, the term does not seem to have become popular as a 
> result of it being featured in a remarkable television series.
> 
> 

I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening to a 
1960's recording.

Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps somebody 
will actually have access to the scripts...

In article <uKV6i.4147$J15.1123@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs  wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> >
> > The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The
> > character who uses the term is London English.  Other characters are
> > primarily London English with some Scottish (the actors are generally
> > English). It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
wrote:

>Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>
>> 
>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>> Eunice Carne?
>
>
>It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>syllable as part of their name).
>
>
>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>> 
>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>> Britain.
>
>
>The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>It was written by Robin Chapman (British).

This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
"nish":
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm

    nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.

OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".

"Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
local coining, or something else.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

Richard Polhill wrote:

> I was kind of assuming you'd misheard it, especially as you're listening 
> to a 1960's recording.

I gathered as much, but do not think so as it appears a number of times and the 
sound is generally quite good.


> Why not let us all on to the secret of what program it is? Perhaps 
> somebody will actually have access to the scripts...


It isn't a secret LOL
The series is Big Breadwinner Hog.

My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  Access to 
the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or earlier meaning, 
if it had one.

-- 
Blue Sow

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> Why not just tell us the name of the programme rather than forcing us to 
> guess?

Because the question is about the word and its meaning.  I have given the 
programme name above which you were never asked (or forced) to guess.


-- 
Blue Sow

Tony Mountifield wrote:

> 
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that it could
> be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of which I have ever
> heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
> 

Indeed (-:

I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area where it 
was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.


-- 
Blue Sow

Peter Duncanson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 10:51:52 +0100, Blue Sow 
> wrote:
> 
>> Paul Burke wrote:
>>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>>> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you niss!'.
>>>>
>>> Are you sure they weren't calling the person Eunice, as in the cricketer 
>>> Eunice Carne?
>>
>> It was used to refer to any number of individuals, all of whom were considered 
>> less wise, or less young, by the person saying it (and none of whom had the 
>> syllable as part of their name).
>>
>>
>>>> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to 
>>>> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  
>>> Was the program UK or US or even Australian? I've not heard the word in 
>>> Britain.
>>
>> The programme is British English and was broadcast in 1969.  The character who 
>> uses the term is London English.  Other characters are primarily London English 
>> with some Scottish (the actors are generally English).
>> It was written by Robin Chapman (British).
> 
> This suggestion might be something or nothing, but there is a word
> "nish":
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/n.htm
> 
>     nish   Pron./Adv. Nothing.
> 
> OED Online has it as a variant spelling of "nesh".
> 
> "Niss" might derive from "nish" or "nesh", it might be a more recent
> local coining, or something else.
> 

That looks quite promising and really helpful.  Thank you so much.  I shall 
follow that trail and see where it leads.

-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:
> Tony Mountifield wrote:
>
>> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Chapman suggests that
>> it could be either "Spindoe" or "Big Breadwinner Hog", neither of
>> which I have ever heard of (I was aged 11 or 12 at the time).
>>
>
> Indeed (-:
>
> I have both (all in the same DVD set) but 'Niss' appears in 'Hog'.
> I was a little older and remember it well - except I lived in an area
> where it was quickly cancelled so much of it will be quite new to me.

A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
please confirm that you have checked those first.
-- 
John Briggs

Blue Sow wrote:
> I encountered this word while watching a late sixties tv drama.
>
> It was used in the sense of calling someone a bad name as in 'you
> niss!'.
> The only word like that I can find refers to Swedish goblins of a
> friendly nature (or similar) which would not seem to fit.
>
> Is this a pre-existing word or simply one coined for the programme to
> avoid using a 'real' swear-word?  (I was reminded of some silly
> science fiction programme that allegedly used such words to avoid the
> use of f... etc.)

Yes, it's most likely a nonce-word used instead of some other word that 
might have been judged unacceptable.  In his novel "Myron" (a sequel to 
"Myra Breckinridge") Gore Vidal replaced rude words by the names of Supreme 
Court Justices - I think you can probably imagine what an enormous rehnquist 
is :-)
-- 
John Briggs

John Briggs wrote:

> 
> A little searching shows that the set contains PDF of original scripts - 
> please confirm that you have checked those first.


Obviously, I have checked those that relate to the episodes which I have 
watched, bearing in mind the set of scripts is incomplete.  In most cases, the 
word and the phrase in which it was uttered are not mentioned.  There is no full 
script for the episode which contains my original quote of 'you niss!'.  Certain 
handwritten documents are not in a hand that I can read.

A direct quote from episode three however has 'The poor old niss.' when 
referring to someone he considers to be beneath him.  That reference appears in 
the rehearsal script but not in the performance script. Both versions are not 
available for every episode.

As stated elsewhere, the scripts would show spellings and I offered two options 
in the subject line.

But this does not help with my enquiry into the origins, and meanings, of the 
word 'niss' or 'nis' unless as I suggested previously, it was a word devised to 
represent something akin to 'bastard' without the need to swear on television. 
That would seem overly squeamish given the acid incident in episode one.

I am following up the suggestion by PD for the moment.


-- 
Blue Sow

Blue Sow wrote:

> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins or 
> earlier meaning, if it had one.
> 

I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.

Paul Burke

Paul Burke wrote:
> Blue Sow wrote:
> 
>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.  
>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its origins 
>> or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>
> 
> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either 
> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that it's a 
> one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed unacceptable by 
> the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary Whitehouse was in full pomp.
> 
> Paul Burke

Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

Richard Polhill wrote:
> Paul Burke wrote:
>> Blue Sow wrote:
>>
>>> My enquiry was to ask if anyone could place the word prior to 1969.
>>> Access to the script will determine the spelling, but not its
>>> origins or earlier meaning, if it had one.
>>>
>>
>> I think the responses so far show that none of us can place it either
>> prior to 1969, or indeed thereafter. I think the suggestion that
>> it's a one- off usage of a made- up word, replacing one deemed
>> unacceptable by the broadcaster, is most likely. In 1969, Mary
>> Whitehouse was in full pomp. Paul Burke
>
> Or misheard, which makes finding the spelling relevant.

We did get Blue Sow to admit to seeing "The poor niss." in a script.
-- 
John Briggs