I remember many years ago there was a transmitter tower beside Vigo
Village near Wrotham, Kent.  It was apparently used for Eurovision in
the early days.  There is no sign of it on modern maps or google
earth. Does anyone know if any of it remains, such as concrete base or
transmitter building?

Cheers
DB

"Kentish Contractor"  wrote in message 
news:pvgs64dnskfsuvcliv9o9gdu675qtqpl6v@4ax.com...
>I remember many years ago there was a transmitter tower beside Vigo
> Village near Wrotham, Kent.  It was apparently used for Eurovision in
> the early days.  There is no sign of it on modern maps or google
> earth.

....Apart from the huge mast just to west of Vigo.

51.329N 0.339E

TQ630614

Regards
Jeff

"Jeff"  wrote in message 
news:486e527a$0$1345$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com...
>
> "Kentish Contractor"  wrote in message 
> news:pvgs64dnskfsuvcliv9o9gdu675qtqpl6v@4ax.com...
>>I remember many years ago there was a transmitter tower beside Vigo
>> Village near Wrotham, Kent.  It was apparently used for Eurovision in
>> the early days.  There is no sign of it on modern maps or google
>> earth.
>
> ....Apart from the huge mast just to west of Vigo.
>
> 51.329N 0.339E
>
> TQ630614
>
> Regards
> Jeff

I forgot to add that the main Wrotham transmitter mast is at NGR  TQ595604 
next to the M20 a little to the NW of Wrotham.

Regards
Jeff

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 17:50:39 +0100, "Jeff"  wrote:

>
>"Jeff"  wrote in message 
>news:486e527a$0$1345$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com...
>>
>> "Kentish Contractor"  wrote in message 
>> news:pvgs64dnskfsuvcliv9o9gdu675qtqpl6v@4ax.com...
>>>I remember many years ago there was a transmitter tower beside Vigo
>>> Village near Wrotham, Kent.  It was apparently used for Eurovision in
>>> the early days.  There is no sign of it on modern maps or google
>>> earth.
>>
>> ....Apart from the huge mast just to west of Vigo.
>>
>> 51.329N 0.339E
>>
>> TQ630614
>>
>> Regards
>> Jeff
>
>I forgot to add that the main Wrotham transmitter mast is at NGR  TQ595604 
>next to the M20 a little to the NW of Wrotham.
>
>Regards
>Jeff 
>
Thanks Jeff, but I know about those two.
This one was about  TQ 63725 61240, and was used only for the
Eurovision link. The large mast with all the dishes on it is behind
the Fairseat telephone exchange on the other side of the A227.

Cheer
Derek

In article ,
   Kentish Contractor  wrote:
> I remember many years ago there was a transmitter tower beside Vigo
> Village near Wrotham, Kent.  It was apparently used for Eurovision in
> the early days.  There is no sign of it on modern maps or google
> earth. Does anyone know if any of it remains, such as concrete base or
> transmitter building?

Probably the one known, by the BBC, as Fairseat.  I'm pretty sure that at
one point it was used as a receiving point for Crystal Palace from where
the signals were radio-linked to Dover & Heathfield.  After the Wrotham
mast was replaced, the equipment was moved there.  There might well have
been a GPO/BT site there as well for the trans-Channel link.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

> Thanks Jeff, but I know about those two.
> This one was about  TQ 63725 61240, and was used only for the
> Eurovision link. The large mast with all the dishes on it is behind
> the Fairseat telephone exchange on the other side of the A227.
>
> Cheer
> Derek

A little bit of Googling seems to indicate that the Eurovision links were 
via microwave across the Channel to Swingate and then by land line to 
London. There is a reference to Wrotham being used as a relay site from 
Swingate for the first O/B from a ferry in the Channel, but no exact 
location.

Regards
Jeff

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:04:55 +0100, charles
 wrote:

>In article ,
>   Kentish Contractor  wrote:
>> I remember many years ago there was a transmitter tower beside Vigo
>> Village near Wrotham, Kent.  It was apparently used for Eurovision in
>> the early days.  There is no sign of it on modern maps or google
>> earth. Does anyone know if any of it remains, such as concrete base or
>> transmitter building?
>
>Probably the one known, by the BBC, as Fairseat.  I'm pretty sure that at
>one point it was used as a receiving point for Crystal Palace from where
>the signals were radio-linked to Dover & Heathfield.  After the Wrotham
>mast was replaced, the equipment was moved there.  There might well have
>been a GPO/BT site there as well for the trans-Channel link.

Hi Charles
Round about 1969-70 ish, I was lucky enough to have a guided tour of
the Wrotham transmitter buildings and I remember asking the engineer
what the two other nearby sites were. He said the large fat one is the
Post Office (now BT) relay station but the smaller one was the
eurovision link.  I was just curious to find out if there were any
remains of the latter.

Cheers
Derek

Kentish Contractor wrote:

> I remember many years ago there was a transmitter tower beside Vigo
> Village near Wrotham, Kent.  It was apparently used for Eurovision in
> the early days.  There is no sign of it on modern maps or google
> earth. Does anyone know if any of it remains, such as concrete base or
> transmitter building?

BT Fairseat radio station.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/21540
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=51.329004+n+0.339324+e&ie=UTF8&ll=51.329004,0.339324&spn=0.001421,0.003076&t=h&z=19
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=563077&y=161476&z=3&sv=563077,161476&st=4&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=563077&ay=161476

-- 
Richard Lamont                        http://www.lamont.me.uk/

OpenPGP Key ID: 0xBD89BE41
Fingerprint: CE78 C285 1F97 0BDA 886D BA78 26D8 6C34 BD89 BE41

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:29:27 +0100, Richard Lamont
 wrote:

>Kentish Contractor wrote:
>
>> I remember many years ago there was a transmitter tower beside Vigo
>> Village near Wrotham, Kent.  It was apparently used for Eurovision in
>> the early days.  There is no sign of it on modern maps or google
>> earth. Does anyone know if any of it remains, such as concrete base or
>> transmitter building?
>
>BT Fairseat radio station.
>
>http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/21540
>http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=51.329004+n+0.339324+e&ie=UTF8&ll=51.329004,0.339324&spn=0.001421,0.003076&t=h&z=19
>http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=563077&y=161476&z=3&sv=563077,161476&st=4&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=563077&ay=161476

Hi Richard
This is not the one.
The one I am referring to was taken down, and was about 750 yards east
of the BT mast you referred to.

Cheers
Derek

In article ,
   Kentish Contractor  wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:04:55 +0100, charles
>  wrote:

> >In article ,
> >   Kentish Contractor  wrote:
> >> I remember many years ago there was a transmitter tower beside Vigo
> >> Village near Wrotham, Kent.  It was apparently used for Eurovision in
> >> the early days.  There is no sign of it on modern maps or google
> >> earth. Does anyone know if any of it remains, such as concrete base or
> >> transmitter building?
> >
> >Probably the one known, by the BBC, as Fairseat.  I'm pretty sure that at
> >one point it was used as a receiving point for Crystal Palace from where
> >the signals were radio-linked to Dover & Heathfield.  After the Wrotham
> >mast was replaced, the equipment was moved there.  There might well have
> >been a GPO/BT site there as well for the trans-Channel link.

> Hi Charles
> Round about 1969-70 ish, I was lucky enough to have a guided tour of
> the Wrotham transmitter buildings and I remember asking the engineer
> what the two other nearby sites were. He said the large fat one is the
> Post Office (now BT) relay station but the smaller one was the
> eurovision link.  I was just curious to find out if there were any
> remains of the latter.

some confusion by someone.  The Eurovision link WAS provided by GPO/BT.  It
may be the same member of Wrotham staff who told a colleague that the early
stereo trials in the SE were a two transmitter system as Radio Times said
the tests were coming from Wrotham and Swingate. In reality both
transmitters were carrying the coded stereo signal.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:42:58 +0100, charles
 wrote:

>In article ,
>   Kentish Contractor  wrote:
>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:04:55 +0100, charles
>>  wrote:
>

>
>> Hi Charles
>> Round about 1969-70 ish, I was lucky enough to have a guided tour of
>> the Wrotham transmitter buildings and I remember asking the engineer
>> what the two other nearby sites were. He said the large fat one is the
>> Post Office (now BT) relay station but the smaller one was the
>> eurovision link.  I was just curious to find out if there were any
>> remains of the latter.
>
>some confusion by someone.  The Eurovision link WAS provided by GPO/BT.  It
>may be the same member of Wrotham staff who told a colleague that the early
>stereo trials in the SE were a two transmitter system as Radio Times said
>the tests were coming from Wrotham and Swingate. In reality both
>transmitters were carrying the coded stereo signal.

The mast I remember was smaller and slimmer and had a strange shaped
dish on top which was aimed roughly easterly.

Derek

"charles"  wrote in message > some 
confusion by someone.  The Eurovision link WAS provided by GPO/BT.  It
> may be the same member of Wrotham staff who told a colleague that the 
> early
> stereo trials in the SE were a two transmitter system as Radio Times said
> the tests were coming from Wrotham and Swingate. In reality both
> transmitters were carrying the coded stereo signal.

The earliest stereo transmissions which I recall used two transmitters, in 
fact one of the FM stations for one channel and BBC TV sound (AM) for the 
other. The results were surprisingly good!

Les.

In article <g4ndft$l1s$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Les. 
wrote:

> "charles"  wrote in message > some
> confusion by someone.  The Eurovision link WAS provided by GPO/BT.  It
> > may be the same member of Wrotham staff who told a colleague that the
> > early stereo trials in the SE were a two transmitter system as Radio
> > Times said the tests were coming from Wrotham and Swingate. In reality
> > both transmitters were carrying the coded stereo signal.

> The earliest stereo transmissions which I recall used two transmitters,
> in fact one of the FM stations for one channel and BBC TV sound (AM) for
> the other. The results were surprisingly good!

They were indeed, but when the Zenith-GE tests started at least one of the
Wrotham staff (in fact the only one there at the time of one of the tests)
believed that the two transmitter system was being continued.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

>>some confusion by someone.  The Eurovision link WAS provided by GPO/BT. 
>>It
>>may be the same member of Wrotham staff who told a colleague that the 
>>early
>>stereo trials in the SE were a two transmitter system as Radio Times said
>>the tests were coming from Wrotham and Swingate. In reality both
>>transmitters were carrying the coded stereo signal.
>
> The mast I remember was smaller and slimmer and had a strange shaped
> dish on top which was aimed roughly easterly.
>


Easterly seems a strange direction for a Eurovision link, Swingate near 
Dover is where the link came across, and that would be more or less SW, in 
the direction of Maidstone. Could the mast in question have perhaps been to 
do with ROC 1 Group at Maidstone?

Jeff

>>some confusion by someone.  The Eurovision link WAS provided by GPO/BT.
>>It
>>may be the same member of Wrotham staff who told a colleague that the
>>early
>>stereo trials in the SE were a two transmitter system as Radio Times said
>>the tests were coming from Wrotham and Swingate. In reality both
>>transmitters were carrying the coded stereo signal.
>
> The mast I remember was smaller and slimmer and had a strange shaped
> dish on top which was aimed roughly easterly.
>


Easterly seems a strange direction for a Eurovision link, Swingate near
Dover is where the link came across, and that would be more or less SE, in
the direction of Maidstone. Could the mast in question have perhaps been to
do with ROC 1 Group at Maidstone?

Jeff

"Jeff"  wrote in message 
news:486f464f$0$1350$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com...
>
>>>some confusion by someone.  The Eurovision link WAS provided by GPO/BT.
>>>It
>>>may be the same member of Wrotham staff who told a colleague that the
>>>early
>>>stereo trials in the SE were a two transmitter system as Radio Times said
>>>the tests were coming from Wrotham and Swingate. In reality both
>>>transmitters were carrying the coded stereo signal.
>>
>> The mast I remember was smaller and slimmer and had a strange shaped
>> dish on top which was aimed roughly easterly.
>>
>
>
> Easterly seems a strange direction for a Eurovision link, Swingate near
> Dover is where the link came across, and that would be more or less SE, in
> the direction of Maidstone. Could the mast in question have perhaps been 
> to
> do with ROC 1 Group at Maidstone?
>
> Jeff
>
>

Please ignore the first post; I typed SW rather than SE but I thought that I 
killed the message before it went out

Jeff

On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:59:41 +0100, "Jeff"  wrote:

>
>>>some confusion by someone.  The Eurovision link WAS provided by GPO/BT.
>>>It
>>>may be the same member of Wrotham staff who told a colleague that the
>>>early
>>>stereo trials in the SE were a two transmitter system as Radio Times said
>>>the tests were coming from Wrotham and Swingate. In reality both
>>>transmitters were carrying the coded stereo signal.
>>
>> The mast I remember was smaller and slimmer and had a strange shaped
>> dish on top which was aimed roughly easterly.
>>
>
>
>Easterly seems a strange direction for a Eurovision link, Swingate near
>Dover is where the link came across, and that would be more or less SE, in
>the direction of Maidstone. Could the mast in question have perhaps been to
>do with ROC 1 Group at Maidstone?
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
Hi Jeff
Pardon me for getting my easterly mixed up with eastward.
The site where this mast was located, was right on the top of the
downs and the antenna was pointing roughly towards the east or
south-east, which would have been Dover. It's been gone for several
years so it was obviously superseded by something elsewhere.
In those days, such an installation would probably have been quite
bulky compared to all the miniaturised gear they have now, so it would
have required a building of some sort.
I can see the mast on a late 1960s 1:63,360  OS map but the area is
now just woodland.

Cheers
Derek

Way back when, did not the BBC a system for receiving French (and
probably Belgian) broadcasts off air in London?

This would have been very old in nature, and possibly de-commissioned
around the time you suggest for the demise of the Vigo mast.  I can't
remember any specific detail of the system, but generally an of-air
receiver was located  near the coast and fed to London (BH?) via one
of the University of London's higher points (Senate Building). There
would have been several repeaters along the North Downs in Kent, Vigo
would have made sense, as would Dunkirk, Swingate or Detling.

Rgds/Ted

In article
,
   Ted Richardson  wrote:
> Way back when, did not the BBC a system for receiving French (and
> probably Belgian) broadcasts off air in London?

> This would have been very old in nature, and possibly de-commissioned
> around the time you suggest for the demise of the Vigo mast.  I can't
> remember any specific detail of the system, but generally an of-air
> receiver was located  near the coast and fed to London (BH?) via one
> of the University of London's higher points (Senate Building). There
> would have been several repeaters along the North Downs in Kent, Vigo
> would have made sense, as would Dunkirk, Swingate or Detling.

The answer is no, the BBC did not have such a system.  They did, on the
other hand, have a radio receiving site at Tatsfield, a bit further to the
west of the site in question.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

"Ted Richardson"  wrote in message 
news:6a8c7a70-a957-468d-9aa3-c38950c4dfed@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Way back when, did not the BBC a system for receiving French (and
> probably Belgian) broadcasts off air in London?
>
> This would have been very old in nature, and possibly de-commissioned
> around the time you suggest for the demise of the Vigo mast.  I can't
> remember any specific detail of the system, but generally an of-air
> receiver was located  near the coast and fed to London (BH?) via one
> of the University of London's higher points (Senate Building). There
> would have been several repeaters along the North Downs in Kent, Vigo
> would have made sense, as would Dunkirk, Swingate or Detling.
>
> Rgds/Ted

The very early BBC O/B's from France and on a ferry in the channel, used a 
microwave relay chain starting on the UK side at Swingate (Dover)
then to Wrotham and then to the London University Senate building. All of 
the references that I have found indicate that the Wrotham site was not
a permanent set-up, rather BBC relay truck.

By the time that Eurovision came along it would appear that the link from 
Swingate to London was on GPO wideband landline.

Regards
Jeff

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 04:43:41 -0700, Ted Richardson wrote:

> Way back when, did not the BBC a system for receiving French (and
> probably Belgian) broadcasts off air in London?
> 
> This would have been very old in nature .......

I am surprised that the story of "Churchill watching television
transmitted from german occupied Paris" has not re-emerged.

Allegedly, during WWII, television pictures transmitted from the Eiffel
Tower were said to have been received at Beachy Head ("and elsewhere on
the south coast") and then relayed on to London.

G.

-- 
gareth at lightfox dot plus dot com

In article <4870d658$0$1345$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com>,
   Jeff  wrote:

> "Ted Richardson"  wrote in message 
> news:6a8c7a70-a957-468d-9aa3-c38950c4dfed@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> > Way back when, did not the BBC a system for receiving French (and
> > probably Belgian) broadcasts off air in London?
> >
> > This would have been very old in nature, and possibly de-commissioned
> > around the time you suggest for the demise of the Vigo mast.  I can't
> > remember any specific detail of the system, but generally an of-air
> > receiver was located  near the coast and fed to London (BH?) via one
> > of the University of London's higher points (Senate Building). There
> > would have been several repeaters along the North Downs in Kent, Vigo
> > would have made sense, as would Dunkirk, Swingate or Detling.
> >
> > Rgds/Ted

> The very early BBC O/B's from France and on a ferry in the channel, used
> a microwave relay chain starting on the UK side at Swingate (Dover) then
> to Wrotham and then to the London University Senate building. All of the
> references that I have found indicate that the Wrotham site was not a
> permanent set-up, rather BBC relay truck.

This was August 1950. According to Pawley "BBC Engineering 1922 - 1972":
the links were Swingate to Warren Street, near Lenham,  Warren Street to
Harvel (near Wrotham), & Harvel to the Senate House roof.   


> By the time that Eurovision came along it would appear that the link from 
> Swingate to London was on GPO wideband landline.

No - GPO microwave link

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

> The mast I remember was smaller and slimmer and had a strange shaped
> dish on top which was aimed roughly easterly.

You can't recall what the antenna looked like can you?

It wouldn't have been a rectangular plate at an angle to the ground by any 
chance?

Jeff

In article <487114ee$0$1346$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com>,
   Jeff  wrote:

> > The mast I remember was smaller and slimmer and had a strange shaped
> > dish on top which was aimed roughly easterly.

> You can't recall what the antenna looked like can you?

> It wouldn't have been a rectangular plate at an angle to the ground by
> any chance?

Your comment has reminded me.  There was a major user of radio links about
which nothing was ever published.  I refer of course to the Royal Corps of
Signals.  They used to run links to the continent before the days of
satellites,

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 19:53:35 +0100, "Jeff"  wrote:

>
>> The mast I remember was smaller and slimmer and had a strange shaped
>> dish on top which was aimed roughly easterly.
>
>You can't recall what the antenna looked like can you?
>
>It wouldn't have been a rectangular plate at an angle to the ground by any 
>chance?
>
>Jeff 
>
I never saw it that close, but it could well have been as you suggest.
From as far away as the A229, it was visible, as well as the GPO tower
at Fairseat and the Wrotham mast.

Derek