No Such Thing As Purely Positive Dog Training? Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "Doggy Advice": "No Loving, No Learning." "Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior," "Clicker Training for Dogs," "Instrumental / Classical / Operant / -P +P / +R -R / S R / R S Conditioning"
No Such Thing As Purely Positive Dog
Training?
Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes:
"Doggy Advice":
"No Loving, No Learning."
"Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior,"
"Clicker Training for Dogs"
"Instrumental / Classical / Operant / -P / -R / S R / R S
Conditioning"
AND
An APOLOGY From professor of Behavior Analysis,
marshall dermer, UofWI
From: "The Puppy Wizard"
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:31 GMT
Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "No Loving, No Learning."
HOWEDY People,
Perhaps the PROBLEM is "TOO MANY WORDS?"
From: "The Puppy Wizard"
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop
> From: "diannes"
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > LeeCharlesKelley wrote:
> > > I wrote:
> > > > LeeCharlesKelley wrote:
> > > > > On another note: I understand why someone
> > > > > proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
> > > > > all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
> > > > > and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
> > > > > *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
> > > > > underlying that technique.
> > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
> > > > is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
> > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
> > > method, though anyone is welcome to make that
> > > leap.
> > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
> > > and its model of learning.
> > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
> > terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:
Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.
> In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
> typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
> to be able to terminate it.
This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.
Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;
Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;
Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;
The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;
Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .
There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.
I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.
NO PUNISHMENT.
Must pay attention to who is the animal?
His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.
I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.
Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.
Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.
You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.
Fondly, Dr. Von
--------------
From: "GEORGE VONHILSHEINER"
To: "Jerry Howe"
Subject: Proposed article for Wikipedia
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:48:33 -0500
The Amazing Puppy Wizard is the cognomen of a dog behaviorist,
Jerry Howe, of Orlando, Fl. Howe's primary teaching is that
dogs deserve unconditional love, respect, and attention and
that by providing these emotional needs dogs will regulate
their own behavior.
Howe is bombastically antagonistic to rewarders, but he is
aggressively hostile to punishers - he refers antagonists
to B.F. Skinner, Mary Cover Jones, and J.B. Watson and
especially to Samuel A. Corson when they mistakenly annunciate
behavioral principles to support their use of punishment.
Punishment always deranges behavior, says Skinner,
Jones, Watson, Corson and Jerry Howe!
Howe developed a sonic device which calms dogs and has been
broadly tested in a wide range of different situations. The
present author is a Who's Who recognized psychologist who was
asked to evaluate Howe's device by a former student.
Howe provided the author with a device, without
charge, and said device worked as reported.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
drv...@earthlink.net
Then cross reference to Jerry Howe, etc.
--------------
Jerry, the difficulty with these ignorant dog molesters
is that they cannot read. Negative reinforcement is no
response by the trainer.
There is positive reinforcement, an action which is followed
by an increase in the targetted behavior (usually called
"reward" which is precisely and technically a misnomer),
negative reinforcement is the absence of any response.
Negative means 'No'.
Skinner's last book, "CUMULATIVE RECORD" reviews this thoroughly.
http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/proj/nru/nr.html
Negative reinforcement is stopping an aversive reinforcement
according to this author. Read it, they have a sense of humor!
There are four forms of systematic reinforcement:
do nothing (negative reinforcement)
reward the behavior (positive reinforcement)
punish the behavior (aversive reinforcement) after habituating
the subject to punishment,
stop punishing (relief of aversion, which is negative reinforcement).
Logically, failing to reward after habituating a reward
is also negative reinforcement. Actually intermittent
rewards work better than consistent, invariable rewards,
so there is actually another two categories. Invariable
reinforcement and random reinforcement (on varying schedules).
Punishment is AVERSIVE REINFORCEMENT. Actions which cause
the animal being trained to avoid, avert, cringe away from. Pavlovians
always responded to American psychologist's inability to reproduce
Pavlov's results with dogs with the comment, "American's don't LOVE
their dogs". If you ever observed a Russian psychologist working with
a dog, you'd instantly see the difference. American psychologists were
wooden, robot-like, wanted to be "scientific".
This meant to them that they should display no affection,
or any other emotion with the subjects.
When a Pavlovian dog started to misbehave or fail to respond,
doggie was taken out of the equipment, and taken home for a
loving vacation, with much TLC. Sam Corson, Pavlov's last
student, demonstrated the same relationships at Ohio State.
Interestingly the first page of results for Sam Corson,
dog behaviorist is loaded with Jerry Howe quoting Dr. Von.
heh heh heh
Dr. Von
Oh, by the way, you once had a pompous fellow say that
Dr. Von was a figment of your imagination. I don't
normally mention this, but I have been listed in Who's
Who in the S & SE USA since 1982, and in the big books,
Who's Who in the USA, WW in the World, WW in Medicine
etc, and WW in Science and Technology, since that date.
These are the Marquis Publications, the "real" WW, and
you can't get yourself into them.
GvH
============
From: "Dr. Von"
Date: 12 Sep 2005 10:52:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Clicker Training for Dogs Newsgroups?
> Jen
> "artbylucy" wrote in message
> news:OMudnRS23OLEc7zenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> > Hello,
> > Does anyone know of a dedicated newsgroup for
> > positive-only dog training, in particular clicker
> > training?
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Lucy
Jen wrote:
> I would love to know of one as well. If there was
> enough people interested maybe we could start one.
> I've just started clicker training my dog and have
> been doing the positive training for a while now.
> I think it's great!!
Jen, your request for a positive only dog training list,
needs the same answer as I give the folk who ask why I
don't have a list for what I do with biofeedback.
The method is so simple, and if you adopt it and relate
to your dog in such a positive manner you won't have any
more problems and there is no need for any more technique.
With Puppies we Ph.D. psychologists have been outflanked
by the entirely practical and effective methods described
in http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u. Free download, nothing
sold, no mailing list, no distribution of your name. Free
support if needed.
With ADHD kids I provide similar information at
www.drbiofeedback.com and there is no need for
a list dealing with problems with kids. Apply
as directed and have happy healthy doggies or
kiddies.
Not difficult.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
P.S. jerk and choke, spanking, shocking, scruff shake,
choke, chin chucks, all those negatives, denial of
affection etc. are harmful, dranging, obscenities.
You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
taught that there are outward and inward responding
organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
methods effectively.
Punishment ALWAYS deranges behavior, and so is
recommended and given only by deranged humans.
Of course, it doesn't matter if we are talking
dogs, cats, people, sheep, even husbands. Dr. Von
---------------
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
To: "Jerry Howe"
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
-----------------
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice
Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.
I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.
I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:
whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.
The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).
You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.
As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine
------
Instrumental / Classical / Operant / Conditioning
CC / OC / IC / -P / -R / S R / R S
It's ALL The SAME SAME SAME SAME
<{); ~ ) >
HOWEDY People,
Since The Amazing Puppy Wizard ALWAYS gets CONfHOWENDED
tryin to suss the psychobabble in behavioral terminology HE asked Dr.
Von if he could remember what he was taught in school fifty years ago:
"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
tself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov
What's important is, "does Shamu reliably
eat the fish and not the pretty girl?"
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400
You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.
I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.
This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!
The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.
Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.
A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.
Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.
The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.
The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.
They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)
Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.
It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.
One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!
Even Skinner understood this!
And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.
Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
----------
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can
Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving
Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management Of
Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."
"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavior
and learning immediately deteriorated."
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective, Safe Results
For All Handler's And All Critters,
And ALL Behaviors
In ALL FIELDS And ALL UTILITIES,
ALL OVER The Whole Wild World,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
GRAND
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE
WWW Wits'End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual
<{} ; ~ ) >
A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
ALL Temperament And Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.
What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George
From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method
I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.
The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.
It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.
Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.
One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.
When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.
You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).
Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.
What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.
At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.
Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.
Is Jerry a nut?
It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.
More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.
I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?
Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.
Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.
Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.
Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.
If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?).
--Larry
----------------------
Subject: Subject: Training Two Dogs At Once
BlueMoon Wrote:
Hello MOCrab.
Well, I'd take your advice and go thru the killfile as you
have recommended below, but Jerry's system Is WORKING wonders
with these two puppies in a matter of days. He may be abusive
and short-tempered with some people out there because, quite
frankly, I think he cares more about the dogs that the owner's
feelings and feels so strongly about it, it's aggravating to
have "experts" discount his methods.
My husband just got back from taking these 15 week old pups
for a walk, who now respond remarkably well to the "Zena-Zoey-
sit-good-girl!" phrase now when only said once no matter where
they are.
They also respond to the come here command. We trained them
(granted, out of order of the instructions) with the pennies
in the cans only two days ago to come to us when called. I've
since backtracked to do the exercises in the proper order.
They are calm and well-behaved and impress the Hell out of
anyone who sees them. "You're kidding, they're only 14 weeks
old and they are THAT well behaved?" Yessiree Bob, they are,
and we've only had them for 12 days and have been training
them (correctly for 3 days.
We still have more training exercises to do, but why fix
something if it's not broken???? These dogs are happy, we
don't have to yell at or scold them, they are learning to
be secure and to pay attention to us for approval and not
out of fear.
I can only assume some might be threatened by this manual's
methods because it goes against all human logic on how to
train a dog. It certainly didn't make any sense to me, but
I thought what the heck, try it (even tho I still have to
remind myself what to do because my previous limited
experiences with dog training were SO DIFFERENT to the point
that I almost felt like I needed to take my brain out of my
head and put it back in backwards!!!.....).....
BUT THE SYSTEM WORKS!!!
How in the world could someone just "make
something up" and it WORK?>??>?
My husband was very doubtful about this method when I told
him I wanted to try this. His dad was a vet, and certainly
didn't use these methods with the parade of dogs they had
as kids. But now even HE has to admit we're doing something
right here, as our stress and frustration levels have lowered
and EVERYONE is much happier around here, especially the dogs!
I really don't think people are used to the notion that you
can train a dog and it NOT be stressful or difficult. It's
easy IF you do it just like the manual says. It might be
easier for some to NOT do it now and go with the concept of
control rather than respect and understanding, because that's
the way WE are used to thinking and heaven forbid WE change
OUR way of thinking and admit we've done some counterproductive
things in the past, right?
The results I'm seeing here with these puppies speaks
volumes and discounts what anyone tells me otherwise.
This Wit's End manual is now in a binder and we're sticking with it.
BlueMoon
------------------
From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
>
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?
It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.
Works like a charm.
My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.
Sorry that slipped my mind.
I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.
Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.
Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.
Seemed he learned through osmosis.
Nice side benefit there.
It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.
I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.
I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.
I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.
Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.
Mike
--------------
Date Oct 3 2005
Hi Jerry,
It is now 1:130 A.M. and I just finished reading your manual.
Of course I will need to read it many more times in order to
apply the techniques when I get a dog.
I found it even better than I thought it would be
and I had high expectations for it.
It is absolutely new , original, TOTALLY overdue for
the world to learn about to stop all the violence,
fear and abuse.
It is interesting how they have us in a SPELL (source
peoples emotional language legacy) and even with the
best of intentions while doing these awful techniques
that feel violent and inside the heart recoils from
doing them, there is the little voice that say's 'But
it is for the dog's good' and so I have to get tough
and not be a sissy and give in to the horror I am
seeing in the dog and feeling that in my moral compass
this feels wrong, and yet continue to betray myself
and the dog because all the "experts" who say they
love dogs ALL agree that I must do this and what do
I know, they say they love dogs they are "love covered
in fur" as Uncle Matty say's.
He loves dogs to say this so I must be too soft hearted
to recoil from what obviously is my duty toward the dog.
You really broke the spell for me.
It is ground breaking work and I am exited to absorb
it as in the first reading there are so many oh wow
moments that the exercises need to be studied at
another time as the impact of the first reading makes
it so mind altering that the emotional response of
FINALLY SOME SANITY is so strong that the details
of 'the how' to needs for me to be studied later many
times to internalize it so it is done correctly.
Thank you for the amazing manual.
Go jolly,
show dog bark aka mirelle aka vera perks
==========
Show Dog Bark aka mirelle Wrote:
Subject: Rumor Has it...
1From: Show Dog Bark
Date: Sat, Aug 19 2006 2:06 am
Email: "Show Dog Bark"
I hear from Jerry, that I have been accused of being some
person called Mirelle. Whoever this Choix Vox is, it disturbs
me that he/she has some issue with someone else and drags me
into his/her Drama.
Blue is doing fantastic. Thanks to his wonderful personality,
genetics and Jerry's help. I speak with Jerry a couple of times
a week about his progress and fine tuning his training. Blue
sits, heels, is totally toilet trained, comes, knows 'down',
stay and all kinds of things like 'lets go for a walk'.
He is pure joy and has made my heart glad and full of puppy
love. He loves walking in the forest trails and swimming in
the cool and refreshing lake. His 'daddy' takes him for his
final walk every evening at 7 P.M. Then it is off to bed. He
sleeps till 7 A.M.
It is nice to be able to sleep all night without getting up
for a pee pee a few times with him. In the first few weeks I
had to take him out at night, but now he is able to sleep all
night. He is like a tranquilizer.
I keep asking Jerry if Blue is a genius, as he is so clever
and obedient.
Her tells me this is the nature of a dog that has not been abused.
Blue is super good looking and so smart. He learned to sit weeks ago.
When he needs to go outside to relieve himself, he lets me know by
going to the door and woofing. One thing that I have noticed using
Jerry's methods is that Blue is very calm.
Most dogs are hyper and chew furniture and have bad habits. Blue
only plays with his toys. He knows the difference between his toys
and furniture and does not nip.
I was surprised that he does not want to go on the furniture. He likes
to play on the floor and outside. We sit outside together and he sits
by where I am reading. He may chew a toy or just hang out in the
shade. The whole town loves him and people are impressed with his
manners.
Show Dog Bark
------------------------
From: showdogbark
Date: Tues, May 2 2006 1:13 pm
Email: "showdogbark"
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.health
Sharon,
I understand your frustrations from your practice with
your husband. I know a couple of vets myself and a few
assistants. The end of the business that you described
is hard and emotionally draining.
Yes vets do sacrifice and put in long hours and their
family is involved in the long hours and irregular hours
put in, there is a very hard side to the job.
It sounds like you get close to many of the animals that
come in especially the ones that come in long term.
I understand your feelings about the euthanasia part
of the job, although it is often overdone, I agree
that sometimes it is necessary, like with my angel
dog Ruby who had a broken neck from spondalosis and
she was put down in the most compassionate way while
I was holding her along with my husband, and the
interesting thing about it was when he came with
the needle she sweetly closed her eyes as though she
sensed she would have relief from the pain and it did
seem as though she embraced death by doing that. The
parting was very hard and at the same time very spiritual.
This vet is a country vet and does not perform esoteric
tests he works in the old fashioned way and tries simple
things first, he works from his own large farm and saves
costs and is sweet like a border collie himself.
The vets I am talking about are the city vets who are so
nice and reasonable the first few times and then out come
the expensive tests and drugs. For instance one time when
Ruby needed surgery for an accident he prescribed a 90
dollar anti-inflammatory for her, well she threw up from
it and my friend who worked for a vet when she was young
told me to use enteric coated generic aspirin and it worked
and she did not throw up and had pain relief.
My son gets the same thing with his dog, esoteric tests
and expensive drugs so he researches it and suggests and
consults with the vet and he no longer is getting gouged.
Perhaps the vets you know are reasonable and kind however
surely you must agree that the profession deserves allot
to be answered about when it comes to exploitation.
Consumer fraud and manipulation is at an all time high
and that includes the vets.
Of course there are many good ones who try and do their
best from their own medical knowledge that can be on the
pharmaceutical side of the training along with a genuine
belief in all the tests, of course to pay for the equipment
it helps to believe in the tests.
It is a complicated subject and I certainly sympathies
with you about the dark side of the business that is
hard for you and your husband.
I am sorry for the loss of your angel. May she rest in peace.
Show Dog Bark
P.S. I never did pretend to be Jerry's dog.
I do like Jerry and Barbara very much I even went and
visited with them in Orlando. They were very polite and
Jerry picked me up at the airport and Barbara made me
dinner. They were the most gracious hosts and made me
very welcome.
He really is a third generation dog trainer and his
methods are new and refreshing.
I learned much more about them by speaking with him
about some of the ideas behind the methods.
They welcomed me into their home and yet I had only
met them through this site.
The man is sincere kind and very likable. His wife
is a saint and very loving and hard working.
When my husband came down to see me he was made very
welcome also and he also was impressed by Jerry's love for dogs.
I think Jerry is not understood sometimes because his
methods are so different from the main stream. But his
intentions are good and effective results are there.
And he has had 45 years of experience and evidence
that he knows what he is doing. Like him or not, it
certainly is worth listening to his ideas as he comes
from a loving, knowledgeable place.
Do Good, BE Good, Be One.
Show Dog Bark
===========
Lauren wrote:
Everything Jerry does is positive reinforcement. In fact, a
lot of it is completely counter-intuitive (eg, praise the dog
even when he's doing the WRONG thing)... but for some bizarre
reason, it works.... His methods *don't* quite match up with
what Cesar does... but... I figure, if you're willing to give
it a try, the *worst* that could happen would be the dog gets
a lot of extra praise and there's no effect whatsoever :-).
The way Jerry's training works, *any* problem is sorted out
after four iterations of extinguishing the behaviour. He says
*anybody* can do it, *every* time, because if a method doesn't
work 100% of the time, for everybody, it's not a good method.
Here's *my* quick summary of it all....
Basically, Jerry's method is based on a foundation of:
a) Focusing the dog's attention on you (the Hot and Cold exercise)
b) Establishing yourself as pack leader (the Family Pack Leadership
exercise) - Note that he does this by dominating *mentally*, never
by dominating *physically* (no alph rolls, no leash corrections)
c) Praising EVERYTHING the dog does - desired or undesired !!!
This is the weird part !! because you are praising the dog
for *thinking* and *deciding* (even if he decided something
you didn't want him to do). This part is so counter-intuitive,
that a lot of people just won't even try this method of training,
because they "know" it couldn't possibly work.
You *never* show the dog displeasure, raise your tone, emphasize
a word strongly, sigh in disgust, *nothing* negative (a hard
habit for a human being to break), EVER. Everything is completely
calm and matter of fact.
All the dog ever hears is what a good dog he is, and you're
*telling* him what a great dog he is, even when he's doing
the behaviour you DON'T want him to do (!). As I said, this
makes so little sense to human beings that a lot of people
won't even *try* this method of training a dog.
d) You *never* put *any* pressure on, or pull on, the dog's
collar. the lead is *always* kept loose. NO corrections are
done by pulling on the collar (a hard habit for a human being
to break).
e) Every behaviour can be created, or extinguished, with only
four repetitions of the training session (another wildly counter-
intuitive concept).
f) Interrupting and eliminating bad behaviours from the dog's
repertoire is done by using sound distractions to condition
the dog *not* to do certain things (or, rather TO do certain
OTHER things)....
Part (f), the sound distraction part, always consists of an
unvarying sequence of saying the exact same thing, four times
in a row (the only new thing being the insertion of the command
keyword <sit, down, come, whatever>) into the sequence, and with
no tonal emphasis on the words at all... and you say all four
sequences in a row, as if they were one long monotone word...
Two of the verbal iterations are accompanied by a sound <pennies
rattling in a can> and two aren't. It's the timing of the sound
to come at the same time as the keyword, that is critical...
Iteration 1: Doggy-<keyword>-good-boy. (and he may have NO clue
what "<keyword>" means)... immediately followed by: Iteration 2:
Doggy-<keyword> <shake can with pennies on the word "<keyword>"> -
good-boy.... immediately followed by: Iteration 3: Doggy-<keyword>-
good-boy.... immediately followed by:Iteration 4: <toss can with
pennies so that *just* as you say the <keyword>, the can hits the
ground, somewhere on the far side of the dog>: Doggy-<keyword> <can
lands as you say the word "<keyword>"> - good-boy.
So, it's really: Take a deep reath: Doggy-keyword-good-boy-
Doggy-[keyword/NEARBY-SOUND]-good-boy-Doggy-keyword-good-boy-
Doggyy-[keyword/FAR-SOUND]-good-boy,
The important part is that the sound has to come from two different
locations, and it has to occur precisely when the keyword is said.
I, personally, have the most trouble with timing the toss
so that the far-away can lands precisely on the keyword.
Jerry explains how to communicate to the dog what "<keyword>"
means, with your own actions. Initially, the behaviours are
based on the dog's motion (coming, going), and the foundation
that was established in the first two exercises, and then he
focuses on extinguishing undesirable behaviours (barking,
jumping, aggression, slamming against fences, bolting through
doors). Establishing desired behaviours like "sit" and "heel"
takes up a lot of the third file.
I'm warning you right up front that Jerry's method seems
COMPLETELY counter-intuitive. Not just counter-intuitive,
it seems completely stupid, impossible, unlikely, ridiculous,
and even *uncomfortable* (for you, the human being) to do.
You reward the dog when he hasn't seemed to do *anything* yet.
(boy, do you feel stupid! "This can't work!" ... but it does.)
You reward the dog when he's very pointedly doing something you
DON'T want.... (keep that smile on your face, in your tone, and
in your body language! very difficult! "Why am I rewarding him
when he's disobeying or being bad?" Jerry explains why !! )
It's the weirdest thing in the world, and yet it seems to work anyway.
I know you don't have tons of time, and it is, of course better
to read the original author's version than a summary! But, here's
a quick summary of the exercises I'm hoping you'll think are worth
trying...
The "Hot and Cold" exercise:
- Done in four different sessions on the first day.
- Takes about 2-3 minutes. You praise the dog every time he
comes towards you, or even looks at you, even out of the corner
of his eyes. Very shortly, he's hovering close to you and keeping
at least one eye on you. Now he's paying attention.
The "Pack Family Leadership" exericise:
- Done in four different sessions on the first day. The first
session takes about 15 minutes the first time, the second session
that day takes about 12 minutes, 8 minutes for the third session,
6 minutes for the fourth session. You do it in a 60' x 60' foot
square (you'll be using a 20' x 20' section, the rest is for the
dog's 20 foot leash to play out, if he wants to roam).
Ideally each of the four sessions is done in four different physical
locations. Do this weekly for the first month, then monthly as a
"tune up" thereafter. What you do is, preferably the entire family
(although it can be done by just one person) marches very slowly
(one step per second) around the square, stopping at the corners,
talking only to each other, never pulling the dog along with them,
never looking at the dog. If he comes, or looks at the group, he
gets praised. If he looks away, or walks away, he hears nothing.
That's it!
Pretty soon, he's hovering around his "pack", seeking attention.
Now you have the foundation to build on.
You build on the "Pack Family Leadership" exercise, to get a come/
recall, by adding in the four iterations plus sound distractions,
as per Jerry's instructions.
After that, any undesired behaviour is interrupted with brief
variably alternating sound distractions INSTANTLY followed by
prolonged NON PHYSICAL praise (if it takes as many as four),
and praise in advance as per his instructions, and any new
desired behaviour is taught using the four iterations plus
sound distractions, as per Jerry's instructions.
He specifically addresses dogs who bark too much/fling themselves
at windows/throw themselves at the door/etc. and bolting out the
front door, dogs who throw themselves against fences, people-
aggressive dogs, etc., and more.
Well, hope that didn't drown you with information....
Anyway, I hope you get a chance to read through it, and are
willing to give it a try. It takes less time than correcting
the dog over and over for the rest of his life, and it's more
fun all the way around for everybody.
Thanks,
-Lauren
-------
This was professor of Behavior ANAL-ysis at UofWI, marshall
dermer's first analysis of "Pure Positive" methods:
Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
26 From: Marshall Dermer -
Date: Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
In article
mattburns...@yahoo.com (Matthew Burnside) writes:
Dear Matt:
Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but
Jerry has failed to profit from it.
My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.
--Marshall
PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.
I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much. They include:
Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman,
jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace,
John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.
*(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG POSTED CASE}
HISTORIES of INCURABLE MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN
INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)
Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of
Wisconsin--Milwaukee/Milwaukee, WI 53201
der...@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer"
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
--------------
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The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
date: 22 Nov 2006 16:21:51 -0800
author: unknown
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