I came across this whitebeam sapling yesterday, but on second thoughts 
I'm not sure what it is. Any ideas?

http://florulaurbana.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-whitebeam-is-this.html
-- 
Stewart Robert Hinsley

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:EyVGk4DyUTUIFwJ4@meden.invalid...
>I came across this whitebeam sapling yesterday, but on second thoughts I'm 
>not sure what it is. Any ideas?
>
> http://florulaurbana.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-whitebeam-is-this.html
> -- 
>

I think it could be bastard service tree.

In sci.bio.botany Stewart Robert Hinsley <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: I came across this whitebeam sapling yesterday, but on second thoughts 
: I'm not sure what it is. Any ideas?

: http://florulaurbana.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-whitebeam-is-this.html
: -- 
: Stewart Robert Hinsley

It is certainly not Sorbus intermedia. It looks very much like Sorbus
hybrida. If it were in Finland, it would certainly be hybrida, but there
are other similar species elsewhere in Europe.

-- 
Erkki 'Örkki' Aalto                          "Life is divided up into
Internet: Erkki.Aalto@Helsinki.FI             the horrible and the miserable"
Snail: Tietotekniikkaosasto, P.O. Box 64
       FI-00014 University of Helsinki, Finland

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:39:46 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley
<{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>I came across this whitebeam sapling yesterday, but on second thoughts 
>I'm not sure what it is. Any ideas?
>
>http://florulaurbana.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-whitebeam-is-this.html

Whitebeam doesn't have cut leaves like on the photo. I'd go with
Christina's Service Tree suggestion but I'm not sure which variety it
could be. 

Chris R.

Stewart Robert Hinsley <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> http://florulaurbana.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-whitebeam-is-this.html

Where geographically are you? There are a number (15 - 20 ?) of sorbus
microspecies around the UK (S. bristoliensis, S. Willmotiana, S.
Devoniensis .....), with a variety of leaf shapes. Your locality might
be as good an indicator as anything else ....
-- 
Larry Stoter

Cheb wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:39:46 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley
> <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I came across this whitebeam sapling yesterday, but on second
>> thoughts I'm not sure what it is. Any ideas?
>>
>> http://florulaurbana.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-whitebeam-is-this.html
>
> Whitebeam doesn't have cut leaves like on the photo. I'd go with
> Christina's Service Tree suggestion but I'm not sure which variety it
> could be.
>
I am reasonably sure it's Bastard Service Tree.  Everything about the leaf 
fits and the colour of the shoot is right.
I'm not an expert, though, could easily be wrong ;-)

In message <EyVGk4DyUTUIFwJ4@meden.invalid>, Stewart Robert Hinsley 
<{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> writes
>I came across this whitebeam sapling yesterday, but on second thoughts 
>I'm not sure what it is. Any ideas?
>
>http://florulaurbana.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-whitebeam-is-this.html

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

My newsfeed was down most of today, but in the interim I've added some 
more observations and photographs to the blog. Same URL.

   http://florulaurbana.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-whitebeam-is-this.html

There are 4 Sorbus found in the UK which have free basal leaflets - 
Sorbus x thuringiaca (bastard service tree = aucuparia x aria), Sorbus x 
liljeforsii (aucuparia x intermedia), Sorbus hybrida (Swedish service 
tree) and Sorbus pseudofennica (Arran service tree). (Note: these plants 
may be service trees, but they're still whitebeams in my idiolect.) None 
of the other British endemics have, fide Stace, free basal leaflets, nor 
are they known to occur in this area; the only Sorbus recorded wild from 
the hectad (up to 2000) are aucuparia, aria (agg.) and latifolia. (So 
confirmation that I also ran across torminalis today would be nice.)

The first three taxa have scattered records over the British Isles. 
(Sorbus x thuringica is about twice as common as the other two.)

Sorbus x thuringiaca and Sorbus x liljeforsii would be expected to have 
more free basal leaflets and more lateral veins that the plant I 
encounted; hence my second thoughts that it was Sorbus hybrida, rather 
than my original misidentification on cursory examination as Sorbus 
intermedia. The number of basal leaflets is low even for Sorbus hybrida, 
so I was concerned about the possibility of some other taxon irregularly 
producing leaves with free basal leaflets, perhaps especially when 
young. As today I encountered additional plants with (0)-1-2 basal 
leaflets my concerns are somewhat alleviated.
-- 
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
> In message <EyVGk4DyUTUIFwJ4@meden.invalid>, Stewart Robert Hinsley 
> <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> writes
>> I came across this whitebeam sapling yesterday, but on second thoughts 
>> I'm not sure what it is. Any ideas?
>>
>> http://florulaurbana.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-whitebeam-is-this.html
> 
> Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
> 
> My newsfeed was down most of today, but in the interim I've added some 
> more observations and photographs to the blog. Same URL.
> 
>   http://florulaurbana.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-whitebeam-is-this.html
> 
> There are 4 Sorbus found in the UK which have free basal leaflets - 
> Sorbus x thuringiaca (bastard service tree = aucuparia x aria), Sorbus x 
> liljeforsii (aucuparia x intermedia), Sorbus hybrida (Swedish service 
> tree) and Sorbus pseudofennica (Arran service tree). (Note: these plants 
> may be service trees, but they're still whitebeams in my idiolect.) None 
> of the other British endemics have, fide Stace, free basal leaflets, nor 
> are they known to occur in this area; the only Sorbus recorded wild from 
> the hectad (up to 2000) are aucuparia, aria (agg.) and latifolia. (So 
> confirmation that I also ran across torminalis today would be nice.)
> 
> The first three taxa have scattered records over the British Isles. 
> (Sorbus x thuringica is about twice as common as the other two.)
> 
> Sorbus x thuringiaca and Sorbus x liljeforsii would be expected to have 
> more free basal leaflets and more lateral veins that the plant I 
> encounted; hence my second thoughts that it was Sorbus hybrida, rather 
> than my original misidentification on cursory examination as Sorbus 
> intermedia. The number of basal leaflets is low even for Sorbus hybrida, 
> so I was concerned about the possibility of some other taxon irregularly 
> producing leaves with free basal leaflets, perhaps especially when 
> young. As today I encountered additional plants with (0)-1-2 basal 
> leaflets my concerns are somewhat alleviated.

If I am reading correctly Hugh McAllister in _The Genus Sorbus_ has S. 
hybrida
found in Britain.

I'm certainly no expert on identifying within the genus, though.  It's 
extremely
complicated taxonomically.

We should note however that McAllister (Kew, 2005) separates the whitebeams,
previously Sorbus Aria etc, into a species distinct from the other 
Sorbus, calling it
Aria.  I'm not sure whether this distinction has been accepted 
internationally or not.
The Sorbus all have pinnate leaves, the Aria entire leaves.

-E