An interesting sight on a freezing cold Friday morning - EIGHT wood pigeons
in the same holly tree stripping berries. There did not seem to be any
territorial aggro. so I wonder if they were related - this tree is a highly
favoured nest site for pigeons and other birds.

-- 
Rodney Blackall (retired meteorologist)(BSc, FRMetS, MRI)
Buckingham, ENGLAND
Using Acorn SA-RPC, OS 4.02 with ANT INS and Pluto 3.03j

"Rodney Blackall"  wrote in message 
news:4f435fd2e6rblackall@rodsrisc.demon.co.uk...
> An interesting sight on a freezing cold Friday morning - EIGHT wood 
> pigeons
> in the same holly tree stripping berries. There did not seem to be any
> territorial aggro. so I wonder if they were related - this tree is a 
> highly
> favoured nest site for pigeons and other birds.
>
> -- 
> Rodney Blackall (retired meteorologist)(BSc, FRMetS, MRI)
> Buckingham, ENGLAND

I noticed that the crop of blackberries this year was very poor, with
perhaps less than a tenth of a normal crop, showing nearest to the
ground, and the rest just brown husks.
At the same time, in my local area too, acorns only showed on some
saplings. That's only 2 years after it happened before.
I am not sure if holly berries are normal fare for pigeons. (Wood pigeons?)
There have been none on my tree.(It's under an oak tree)
Blackbirds have started early on my pyracantha berries(red). Some years
they leave them alone. All the Mountain Ash berries were stripped as usual.

In article , Rodney Blackall 
 writes
>An interesting sight on a freezing cold Friday morning - EIGHT wood pigeons
>in the same holly tree stripping berries. There did not seem to be any
>territorial aggro. so I wonder if they were related - this tree is a highly
>favoured nest site for pigeons and other birds.
>
Pigeons are gregarious during the winter and don't go in for territorial 
aggro.

-- 
Malcolm

On 19 Nov, 01:00, "Miles - Nature"  wrote:
> "Rodney Blackall"  wrote in message
>
> news:4f435fd2e6rblackall@rodsrisc.demon.co.uk...
>
> > An interesting sight on a freezing cold Friday morning - EIGHT wood
> > pigeons
> > in the same holly tree stripping berries. There did not seem to be any
> > territorial aggro. so I wonder if they were related - this tree is a
> > highly
> > favoured nest site for pigeons and other birds.
>
> > --
> > Rodney Blackall (retired meteorologist)(BSc, FRMetS, MRI)
> > Buckingham, ENGLAND
>
> I noticed that the crop of blackberries this year was very poor, with
> perhaps less than a tenth of a normal crop, showing nearest to the
> ground, and the rest just brown husks.
> At the same time, in my local area too, acorns only showed on some
> saplings. That's only 2 years after it happened before.
> I am not sure if holly berries are normal fare for pigeons. (Wood pigeons?)
> There have been none on my tree.(It's under an oak tree)
> Blackbirds have started early on my pyracantha berries(red). Some years
> they leave them alone. All the Mountain Ash berries were stripped as usual.

I've seen 10s of blackbirds in a blackthorn hedge just down the way
gorging themselves, as well as all out Pyracanthus berries went last
week.  As you say I've seen the berries left on the bushes before... a
portent of bad weather to come ?

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:26:58 -0800 (PST), NickTheBatMan
 wrote:

>On 19 Nov, 01:00, "Miles - Nature"  wrote:
>> "Rodney Blackall"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:4f435fd2e6rblackall@rodsrisc.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> > An interesting sight on a freezing cold Friday morning - EIGHT wood
>> > pigeons
>> > in the same holly tree stripping berries. There did not seem to be any
>> > territorial aggro. so I wonder if they were related - this tree is a
>> > highly
>> > favoured nest site for pigeons and other birds.
>>
>> > --
>> > Rodney Blackall (retired meteorologist)(BSc, FRMetS, MRI)
>> > Buckingham, ENGLAND
>>
>> I noticed that the crop of blackberries this year was very poor, with
>> perhaps less than a tenth of a normal crop, showing nearest to the
>> ground, and the rest just brown husks.
>> At the same time, in my local area too, acorns only showed on some
>> saplings. That's only 2 years after it happened before.
>> I am not sure if holly berries are normal fare for pigeons. (Wood pigeons?)
>> There have been none on my tree.(It's under an oak tree)
>> Blackbirds have started early on my pyracantha berries(red). Some years
>> they leave them alone. All the Mountain Ash berries were stripped as usual.
>
>I've seen 10s of blackbirds in a blackthorn hedge just down the way
>gorging themselves, as well as all out Pyracanthus berries went last
>week.  As you say I've seen the berries left on the bushes before... a
>portent of bad weather to come ?

Not really sure I'd say it is a portent of a bad winter but the
countryside is *full* of fruit around here (Thames Valley - rose-hips,
privet, hawthorne, sloe, spindle, crab apples etc) and the weather is
fairly mild, compared with eastern Europe, so I just think the birds
are here and making the most of the crop. 

Chris R.

In article 
, 
NickTheBatMan  writes
>On 19 Nov, 01:00, "Miles - Nature"  wrote:
>> "Rodney Blackall"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:4f435fd2e6rblackall@rodsrisc.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> > An interesting sight on a freezing cold Friday morning - EIGHT wood
>> > pigeons
>> > in the same holly tree stripping berries. There did not seem to be any
>> > territorial aggro. so I wonder if they were related - this tree is a
>> > highly
>> > favoured nest site for pigeons and other birds.
>>
>> > --
>> > Rodney Blackall (retired meteorologist)(BSc, FRMetS, MRI)
>> > Buckingham, ENGLAND
>>
>> I noticed that the crop of blackberries this year was very poor, with
>> perhaps less than a tenth of a normal crop, showing nearest to the
>> ground, and the rest just brown husks.
>> At the same time, in my local area too, acorns only showed on some
>> saplings. That's only 2 years after it happened before.
>> I am not sure if holly berries are normal fare for pigeons. (Wood pigeons?)
>> There have been none on my tree.(It's under an oak tree)
>> Blackbirds have started early on my pyracantha berries(red). Some years
>> they leave them alone. All the Mountain Ash berries were stripped as usual.
>
>I've seen 10s of blackbirds in a blackthorn hedge just down the way
>gorging themselves, as well as all out Pyracanthus berries went last
>week.  As you say I've seen the berries left on the bushes before... a
>portent of bad weather to come ?

No, the result of a good fruiting year! Nothing else

-- 
Malcolm

In article , Cheb 
 writes
>On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:26:58 -0800 (PST), NickTheBatMan
> wrote:
>
>>On 19 Nov, 01:00, "Miles - Nature"  wrote:
>>> "Rodney Blackall"  wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:4f435fd2e6rblackall@rodsrisc.demon.co.uk...
>>>
>>> > An interesting sight on a freezing cold Friday morning - EIGHT wood
>>> > pigeons
>>> > in the same holly tree stripping berries. There did not seem to be any
>>> > territorial aggro. so I wonder if they were related - this tree is a
>>> > highly
>>> > favoured nest site for pigeons and other birds.
>>>
>>> > --
>>> > Rodney Blackall (retired meteorologist)(BSc, FRMetS, MRI)
>>> > Buckingham, ENGLAND
>>>
>>> I noticed that the crop of blackberries this year was very poor, with
>>> perhaps less than a tenth of a normal crop, showing nearest to the
>>> ground, and the rest just brown husks.
>>> At the same time, in my local area too, acorns only showed on some
>>> saplings. That's only 2 years after it happened before.
>>> I am not sure if holly berries are normal fare for pigeons. (Wood pigeons?)
>>> There have been none on my tree.(It's under an oak tree)
>>> Blackbirds have started early on my pyracantha berries(red). Some years
>>> they leave them alone. All the Mountain Ash berries were stripped as usual.
>>
>>I've seen 10s of blackbirds in a blackthorn hedge just down the way
>>gorging themselves, as well as all out Pyracanthus berries went last
>>week.  As you say I've seen the berries left on the bushes before... a
>>portent of bad weather to come ?
>
>Not really sure I'd say it is a portent of a bad winter but the
>countryside is *full* of fruit around here (Thames Valley - rose-hips,
>privet, hawthorne, sloe, spindle, crab apples etc) and the weather is
>fairly mild, compared with eastern Europe, so I just think the birds
>are here and making the most of the crop.
>
There has been very heavy and early snowfall in parts of Scandinavia 
this autumn (1) which has sent a lot of birds here earlier and in larger 
numbers than usual, including thrushes, siskins, bramblings, etc.

(1) Must be global warming :-)

-- 
Malcolm

"Malcolm"  wrote in message 
news:oM4cBqP9gUQHFwiU@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>
> Pigeons are gregarious during the winter and don't go in for territorial 
> aggro.
>

Hi Malcolm,

Would it depend on whether these Pigeons are ours or continental birds and 
if so what would they be happy eating themselves silly on.

I for one, have seen a huge flock of many many thousands a few years back 
gorging on left over maize and all were birds were largely gone within 
hours.

Wintry Cheers

Tony

In article , Malcolm
 wrote:

> In article , Rodney Blackall
>  writes
> >An interesting sight on a freezing cold Friday morning - EIGHT wood
> >pigeons in the same holly tree stripping berries. There did not seem to
> >be any territorial aggro. so I wonder if they were related - this tree
> >is a highly favoured nest site for pigeons and other birds.
> >
> Pigeons are gregarious during the winter and don't go in for territorial
> aggro.

Ours do! Intruding pigeons cause the most frightful flap if they come near
this holly tree once nest building has been started by the first comers.

-- 
Rodney Blackall (retired meteorologist)(BSc, FRMetS, MRI)
Buckingham, ENGLAND
Using Acorn SA-RPC, OS 4.02 with ANT INS and Pluto 3.03j

In article , Rodney Blackall 
 writes
>In article , Malcolm
> wrote:
>
>> In article , Rodney Blackall
>>  writes
>> >An interesting sight on a freezing cold Friday morning - EIGHT wood
>> >pigeons in the same holly tree stripping berries. There did not seem to
>> >be any territorial aggro. so I wonder if they were related - this tree
>> >is a highly favoured nest site for pigeons and other birds.
>> >
>> Pigeons are gregarious during the winter and don't go in for territorial
>> aggro.
>
>Ours do! Intruding pigeons cause the most frightful flap if they come near
>this holly tree once nest building has been started by the first comers.
>
Please note my words "during the winter"!

-- 
Malcolm

In article <KPI0j.670$B97.361@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, Tony Powell 
 writes
>
>"Malcolm"  wrote in message
>news:oM4cBqP9gUQHFwiU@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> Pigeons are gregarious during the winter and don't go in for territorial
>> aggro.
>>
>
>Hi Malcolm,
>
>Would it depend on whether these Pigeons are ours or continental birds and
>if so what would they be happy eating themselves silly on.
>
How many pigeons actually come across from the continent is a matter of 
some dispute, believe it or not. A recent analysis of ringing recoveries 
showed minimal movement of continental birds into Britain except in very 
hard winters. They will eat whatever is going in the vegetable line, 
whether seeds, brassicas, growing plants of various kinds, etc.

>I for one, have seen a huge flock of many many thousands a few years back
>gorging on left over maize and all were birds were largely gone within
>hours.
>
They had presumably exhausted the food supply and had moved on.

-- 
Malcolm

"Malcolm"  wrote in message 
news:w95KdmD472QHFwic@indaal.demon.co.uk...

How many pigeons actually come across from the continent is a matter of some 
dispute, believe it or not.

I certainly do believe this is a matter of dispute, I think there certainly 
should be a need to ring a few of these woodies in the name of scientific 
research, methinks.  I would not dispute it when many birders are currently 
involved in personal studies along the south coast either!

Malcolm"  wrote in message

A recent analysis of ringing recoveries showed minimal movement of 
continental birds into Britain except in very
 hard winters.

How many have exactly been ringed to date, Malcolm?

Malcolm"  wrote in message

They will eat whatever is going in the vegetable line, whether seeds, 
brassicas, growing plants of various kinds, etc.

Interesting, they certainly like to stock up, what with these super large 
pigeons that have been witnessed.

Tony Powell (me) wrote in message:

I for one, have seen a huge flock of many many thousands a few years back
gorging on left over maize and all were birds were largely gone within
hours.

Malcolm"  wrote in message

They had presumably exhausted the food supply and had moved on.

Indeed, they were not seen again that year in those sort of numbers and must 
have headed somewhere far afield in what I would call a monster flock, I 
couldn't even enter the actual figure on Birdtrack at the time either!

Thanks Malcolm. Very informative and talking of which try the following 
websites on vis mig and just look at the numbers of the wood pigs in 
October/November this year.

http://www.chog.org.uk/Sightings%20Archive/2007/October%202007.htm

http://www.portlandbirdobs.org.uk/latest_oct2007.htm

http://www.durlston.co.uk/index.php?id=3&dry_id=2&nid=66&pg=Oct%2007

All very interesting.

Kind Regards

Tony

In article <vmn1j.28779$6v.1201@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>, Tony Powell 
 writes
>
>"Malcolm"  wrote in message
>news:w95KdmD472QHFwic@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>
>How many pigeons actually come across from the continent is a matter of some
>dispute, believe it or not.
>
>I certainly do believe this is a matter of dispute, I think there certainly
>should be a need to ring a few of these woodies in the name of scientific
>research, methinks.  I would not dispute it when many birders are currently
>involved in personal studies along the south coast either!
>
>Malcolm"  wrote in message
>
>A recent analysis of ringing recoveries showed minimal movement of
>continental birds into Britain except in very
> hard winters.
>
>How many have exactly been ringed to date, Malcolm?
>
>Malcolm"  wrote in message
>
>They will eat whatever is going in the vegetable line, whether seeds,
>brassicas, growing plants of various kinds, etc.
>
>Interesting, they certainly like to stock up, what with these super large
>pigeons that have been witnessed.
>
>Tony Powell (me) wrote in message:
>
>I for one, have seen a huge flock of many many thousands a few years back
>gorging on left over maize and all were birds were largely gone within
>hours.
>
>Malcolm"  wrote in message
>
>They had presumably exhausted the food supply and had moved on.
>
>Indeed, they were not seen again that year in those sort of numbers and must
>have headed somewhere far afield in what I would call a monster flock, I
>couldn't even enter the actual figure on Birdtrack at the time either!
>
>Thanks Malcolm. Very informative and talking of which try the following
>websites on vis mig and just look at the numbers of the wood pigs in
>October/November this year.
>
>http://www.chog.org.uk/Sightings%20Archive/2007/October%202007.htm
>
>http://www.portlandbirdobs.org.uk/latest_oct2007.htm
>
>http://www.durlston.co.uk/index.php?id=3&dry_id=2&nid=66&pg=Oct%2007
>
>All very interesting.
>
The latest ringing totals to hand (up to 2005) are just over 42,000 
ringed and c.3000 recoveries.

It is quite usual to see large numbers of woodpigeons flying along our 
coasts in autumn, e.g. south down the coasts of East Anglia and west 
along the Channel coast. These are considered to be continental birds on 
migration.

Here are a couple of extracts from The Migration Atlas (2002).

"During October, Scandinavian and Baltic [breeding] birds move through 
Denmark, the Netherlands and France, some continuing southwest through 
the western end of the Pyrenees where they have been trapped in large 
numbers for food. For many, their goal is the acorn harvest in the 
forests of northwest Spain."

"There has been much debate concerning the arrival of foreign 
Woodpigeons in Britain, and the emigration of British birds to the 
Continent. The evidence has largely been based upon direct sightings of 
birds either coming in from the sea onto the east coast of England, or 
leaving the south coast of England and departing southwards over the 
English Channel.  Murton and Ridpath (1962) argued that most of these 
observations resulted from Woodpigeons 'coasting and occasionally making 
sallies for short distances out to sea and then returning'. They 
concluded that only a small number of British Woodpigeons actually 
emigrate to the Continent and, similarly, that very few foreign birds 
reach these shores during their autumn migration.
More systematic watching of the coast in recent decades has revealed 
annual movements in late autumn, westward along the North Norfolk coast, 
but southward along the coasts of Yorkshire and Suffolk. The numbers 
involved vary greatly from year to year. In 1994, an exceptional total 
of 88,397 birds was logged flying south at Landguard Point in Suffolk 
between 10 October and 25 November, with 30,610 birds on 2 November 
alone. It is likely that the majority of these birds are from 
Fennoscandia and heading for France or Iberia, and are not in Britain 
long enough either to be ringed or for any rings they are carrying to be 
recovered. If on the other hand they are British, then the ringing 
recoveries are greatly underestimating the scale of movement of 
British-bred birds.
Certainly the ring-recovery data contain no evidence of widespread 
immigration into Britain; indeed, despite many long-distance recoveries 
on the Continent, just eight foreign birds, ringed in the Netherlands 
(three), Germany (two), Denmark, Norway and Belgium, have been recovered 
here."

-- 
Malcolm

"Malcolm"  wrote in message 
news:+NXJxp5GWoRHFwpr@indaal.demon.co.uk...

> Certainly the ring-recovery data contain no evidence of widespread 
> immigration into Britain; indeed, despite many long-distance recoveries on 
> the Continent, just eight foreign birds, ringed in the Netherlands 
> (three), Germany (two), Denmark, Norway and Belgium, have been recovered 
> here."

That's interesting, Malcolm but I do wonder where my local feeding flock of 
c50,000 had originated from? if they were all local birds, there must have 
certainly been some big roosting flocks about too.

Cheers

Tony
Newbury, Berkshire

PS I hope you got a chance to look at the websites I aforementioned in my 
previous email.