It's not fair. My brassicas are supposed to have a chance to recover and
feed *us* over the winter, but last night I found a large caterpillar
actively feeding on the cavolo nero. I didn't stop to identify it, but I
think it was one of the usual whites. I can check if anyone's
interested; I suppose I should go and look for more of them. I also
wondered idly whether feeding over the winter would affect pupation,
etc.

regards
sarah

-- 
Think of it as evolution in action.

"sarah"  wrote
> It's not fair. My brassicas are supposed to have a chance to recover and
> feed *us* over the winter, but last night I found a large caterpillar
> actively feeding on the cavolo nero. I didn't stop to identify it, but I
> think it was one of the usual whites. I can check if anyone's
> interested; I suppose I should go and look for more of them. I also
> wondered idly whether feeding over the winter would affect pupation,
> etc.
>
I too have found the odd one, bright green, tucked inside winter cabbages 
but usually find the spring cauliflowers (Walcheren Winter Armardo April) 
free from any damage with nice clean, meat free, curds in April. :-)

-- 
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Hi,

I have as well, saw a small bright green caterpillar being bashed by a Wren 
the other day in my garden when we had that cold snap.

Tony

"Bob Hobden"  wrote in message 
news:422763F1govllU1@individual.net...
>
> "sarah"  wrote
>> It's not fair. My brassicas are supposed to have a chance to recover and
>> feed *us* over the winter, but last night I found a large caterpillar
>> actively feeding on the cavolo nero. I didn't stop to identify it, but I
>> think it was one of the usual whites. I can check if anyone's
>> interested; I suppose I should go and look for more of them. I also
>> wondered idly whether feeding over the winter would affect pupation,
>> etc.
>>
> I too have found the odd one, bright green, tucked inside winter cabbages 
> but usually find the spring cauliflowers (Walcheren Winter Armardo April) 
> free from any damage with nice clean, meat free, curds in April. :-)
>
> -- 
> Regards
> Bob
> In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
>
>

Bob Hobden  wrote:

> "sarah"  wrote
> > It's not fair. My brassicas are supposed to have a chance to recover and
> > feed *us* over the winter, but last night I found a large caterpillar
> > actively feeding on the cavolo nero. I didn't stop to identify it, but I
> > think it was one of the usual whites. I can check if anyone's
> > interested; I suppose I should go and look for more of them. I also
> > wondered idly whether feeding over the winter would affect pupation,
> > etc.
> >
> I too have found the odd one, bright green, tucked inside winter cabbages
> but usually find the spring cauliflowers (Walcheren Winter Armardo April)
> free from any damage with nice clean, meat free, curds in April. :-)

grrr. I prefer my Savoys without the lacework. I did grow caulis one
year, but they take a lot of space and I've only got about 4m^2.
More seriously, are caterpillars often active through the winter, or
have my brassicas simply been lucky in the past? I should have left the
mesh on longer :-(

regards
sarah


-- 
Think of it as evolution in action.

In message <1h8mzsx.1teya02sertqjN%usenet@colddrake.co.uk>, sarah 
 writes
>It's not fair. My brassicas are supposed to have a chance to recover and
>feed *us* over the winter, but last night I found a large caterpillar
>actively feeding on the cavolo nero. I didn't stop to identify it, but I
>think it was one of the usual whites. I can check if anyone's
>interested; I suppose I should go and look for more of them. I also
>wondered idly whether feeding over the winter would affect pupation,
>etc.

Huh. There were midges performing a mating dance over my lawn, 
yesterday.

Happy new year.
-- 
Tim Lamb

In message <1h8ngjk.4ztndxo4aucjN%usenet@colddrake.co.uk>, sarah 
 writes
>Bob Hobden  wrote:
>
>> "sarah"  wrote
>> > It's not fair. My brassicas are supposed to have a chance to recover and
>> > feed *us* over the winter, but last night I found a large caterpillar
>> > actively feeding on the cavolo nero. I didn't stop to identify it, but I
>> > think it was one of the usual whites. I can check if anyone's
>> > interested; I suppose I should go and look for more of them. I also
>> > wondered idly whether feeding over the winter would affect pupation,
>> > etc.
>> >
>> I too have found the odd one, bright green, tucked inside winter cabbages
>> but usually find the spring cauliflowers (Walcheren Winter Armardo April)
>> free from any damage with nice clean, meat free, curds in April. :-)
>
>grrr. I prefer my Savoys without the lacework. I did grow caulis one
>year, but they take a lot of space and I've only got about 4m^2.
>More seriously, are caterpillars often active through the winter, or
>have my brassicas simply been lucky in the past? I should have left the
>mesh on longer :-(

Umm. I ring netted my cabbages as a protection against Pigeons but found 
they were then destroyed by Cabbage White caterpillars. I wonder if 
small birds that might predate the caterpillars are discouraged by the 
netting?

regards

-- 
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:  ZE9BtPN8iGvDFwsX@marford.demon.co.uk,

> In message <1h8mzsx.1teya02sertqjN%usenet@colddrake.co.uk>, sarah
>  writes
>> It's not fair. My brassicas are supposed to have a chance to recover
>> and feed *us* over the winter, but last night I found a large
>> caterpillar actively feeding on the cavolo nero. I didn't stop to
>> identify it, but I think it was one of the usual whites. I can check
>> if anyone's interested; I suppose I should go and look for more of
>> them. I also wondered idly whether feeding over the winter would
>> affect pupation, etc.

> Huh. There were midges performing a mating dance over my lawn,
> yesterday.

Probably the usual "winter crane flies/winter mosquitos"
Trichocera spec.

Here a nice photo by Peter Nielsen
http://www.fugleognatur.dk/gallery_showlarge.asp?ID=3383
A good Danish site BTW.

-- 
º°º°º°º < Peter Alaca > º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°

Tim Lamb  wrote:

> In message <1h8ngjk.4ztndxo4aucjN%usenet@colddrake.co.uk>, sarah 
>  writes
> >Bob Hobden  wrote:
> >
> >> "sarah"  wrote
> >> > It's not fair. My brassicas are supposed to have a chance to recover and
> >> > feed *us* over the winter, but last night I found a large caterpillar
> >> > actively feeding on the cavolo nero. I didn't stop to identify it, but I
> >> > think it was one of the usual whites. I can check if anyone's
> >> > interested; I suppose I should go and look for more of them. I also
> >> > wondered idly whether feeding over the winter would affect pupation,
> >> > etc.
> >> >
> >> I too have found the odd one, bright green, tucked inside winter cabbages
> >> but usually find the spring cauliflowers (Walcheren Winter Armardo April)
> >> free from any damage with nice clean, meat free, curds in April. :-)
> >
> >grrr. I prefer my Savoys without the lacework. I did grow caulis one
> >year, but they take a lot of space and I've only got about 4m^2.
> >More seriously, are caterpillars often active through the winter, or
> >have my brassicas simply been lucky in the past? I should have left the
> >mesh on longer :-(
> 
> Umm. I ring netted my cabbages as a protection against Pigeons but found
> they were then destroyed by Cabbage White caterpillars. I wonder if 
> small birds that might predate the caterpillars are discouraged by the
> netting?

I've never seen anything other than wasps checking the brassicas for
caterpillars; I did wonder whether the whites have an unpleasant
flavour. For a week or three I even tried putting bird feeders near the
veg to encourage predation, but that simply resulted in my having to
wash everything even more thoroughly than usual :-(

I've rarely seen pigeons on the veg, although they're always on the
feeders, but a friend with small allotment a few hundred yards away
loses most of her kale to them, summer and winter. Vaguely amusing --
she had absolutely no idea what was doing the damage, assumed invisible
caterpillars plus kale-centred vandals from the local housing estate!

Having such a small growing area means it's easier to cover. I construct
a frame and use a fine plastic enviromesh that keeps out everything bar
whitefly -- although I have seen hordes[1] of whites trying to lay eggs
on leaves through the mesh. I spent some time trying to perfect a method
of killing the butterflies: I found it astonishingly difficult to take
them out of the air using a hose as the wings shed water extremely well.
The most effective weapon was a handsprayer full of water and detergent
(surfactant), followed by the heel of my shoe.

It's probably time to start prebaiting for slugs...

regards
sarah


[1] There were an awful lot of them and I'm sure the largest was named
Genghis.


-- 
Think of it as evolution in action.

In message <43bc713b$0$64616$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>, Peter Alaca 
 writes
>Tim Lamb wrote:  ZE9BtPN8iGvDFwsX@marford.demon.co.uk,
>
>> Huh. There were midges performing a mating dance over my lawn,
>> yesterday.
>
>Probably the usual "winter crane flies/winter mosquitos"
>Trichocera spec.

Maybe. They looked a bit big for midges. I was making assumptions from 
the dance.

I'll try to catch one if they return.
>
>Here a nice photo by Peter Nielsen
>http://www.fugleognatur.dk/gallery_showlarge.asp?ID=3383
>A good Danish site BTW.

Yes. Scale is a bit difficult. If that is Comfrey then I don't think 
these insects were quite so big.

regards
>

-- 
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:  Mfn0L9GVLPvDFwfW@marford.demon.co.uk,

> In message <43bc713b$0$64616$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>, Peter Alaca
>  writes
>> Tim Lamb wrote:  ZE9BtPN8iGvDFwsX@marford.demon.co.uk,
>>
>>> Huh. There were midges performing a mating dance over my lawn,
>>> yesterday.
>>
>> Probably the usual "winter crane flies/winter mosquitos"
>> Trichocera spec.
>
> Maybe. They looked a bit big for midges. I was making assumptions from
> the dance.
>
> I'll try to catch one if they return.
>>
>> Here a nice photo by Peter Nielsen
>> http://www.fugleognatur.dk/gallery_showlarge.asp?ID=3383
>> A good Danish site BTW.
>
> Yes. Scale is a bit difficult. If that is Comfrey then I don't think
> these insects were quite so big.

It is Sage /Salvia officinalis/

-- 
º°º°º°º < Peter Alaca > º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°

In article , Tim Lamb
 wrote:
> In message <1h8ngjk.4ztndxo4aucjN%usenet@colddrake.co.uk>, sarah
>  writes
> >Bob Hobden  wrote:
> >
> >> "sarah"  wrote
> >> > It's not fair. My brassicas are supposed to have a chance to
> >> > recover and feed *us* over the winter, but last night I found a
> >> > large caterpillar actively feeding on the cavolo nero. I didn't
> >> > stop to identify it, but I think it was one of the usual whites. I
> >> > can check if anyone's interested; I suppose I should go and look
> >> > for more of them. I also wondered idly whether feeding over the
> >> > winter would affect pupation, etc.
> >> >
> >> I too have found the odd one, bright green, tucked inside winter
> >> cabbages but usually find the spring cauliflowers (Walcheren Winter
> >> Armardo April) free from any damage with nice clean, meat free, curds
> >> in April. :-)
> >
> >grrr. I prefer my Savoys without the lacework. I did grow caulis one
> >year, but they take a lot of space and I've only got about 4m^2. More
> >seriously, are caterpillars often active through the winter, or have my
> >brassicas simply been lucky in the past? I should have left the mesh on
> >longer :-(

> Umm. I ring netted my cabbages as a protection against Pigeons but found
> they were then destroyed by Cabbage White caterpillars. I wonder if
> small birds that might predate the caterpillars are discouraged by the
> netting?

> regards
Sadly small birds at my allotment are rather scarce, though I have used no
netting, and pigeons haven't 
yet been a problem.

I have to add that I was surprised just today to see a whole brood (word?)
on the crown of my sprouts. I squashed them! I have in the past had single
individuals skulking in the winter, but never a whole colony.  I suppose it
was to do with the very warm autumn.  They had done rather little damage,
presumably because the cold slowed their metabolism.

-- 
Regards from Robert Seago : http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/rjseago