Hello,

being a native German (model)railway - enthusiast nowadays living in
Paraguay, I´m looking for some information.

Our left over TOC FEPASA writes in the history of Paraguayan Railway:

"En 1953, después de los Sentinel, la otra inversión en equipos de tracción
que hizo el FCCP, fue la compra de un par de maquinas tipo Garrat 2-6-0, de
vapor saturado, hechas por la “Yorkshire Engine” adquiridas de la
Argentina."

Can anyone help me find some useful information about the Sentinelrailcars
and the 2 Garratts? 
Neither in the archives nor at the cemetery of locos "La Triangula" nearby
Sapucai I could find any hints.

Google told me about Garratts in Africa and New Zealand, Sentinels in South
Africa but nothing about South America.

I learned, that the 6 Sentinels were rebuilt to wagons and run a few years
as normal passenger wagons here, but where and when did the Sentinels come
from?

If you think another newsgroup fixes my request better, please tell me.

Regards and thanks from PY, every hint is welcome
  
        Edgar
-- 
Einfach ist genial

On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:27:11 +0200, Edgar Warnecke 
wrote:

>Hello,
>
>being a native German (model)railway - enthusiast nowadays living in
>Paraguay, I´m looking for some information.
>
>Our left over TOC FEPASA writes in the history of Paraguayan Railway:
>
>"En 1953, después de los Sentinel, la otra inversión en equipos de tracción
>que hizo el FCCP, fue la compra de un par de maquinas tipo Garrat 2-6-0, de
>vapor saturado, hechas por la “Yorkshire Engine” adquiridas de la
>Argentina."
>
>Can anyone help me find some useful information about the Sentinelrailcars
>and the 2 Garratts? 
>Neither in the archives nor at the cemetery of locos "La Triangula" nearby
>Sapucai I could find any hints.

I looked in my copy of "Garratt Locomotives of the World", by A E
Durrant, and what he says is, roughly:

The Argentine railways FC Entre Rios and FC North Eastern Argentina
had a number of Garratts, both 2-6-0+0-6-2 and 4-4-2+2-4-4 types. They
were in the habit of lending them to Paraguay when there were
shortages of power. One of the 4-4-2+2-4-4 types was reported derelict
in Paraguay in 1977.

They seem to have shared a boiler type, though AED lists it as
superheated rather than saturated, and they were built by Beyer
Peacock rather than Yorkshire Engine.

Hope this helps...

Tim

On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:40:02 +0100, Tim Illingworth
 wrote:

>On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:27:11 +0200, Edgar Warnecke 
>wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>being a native German (model)railway - enthusiast nowadays living in
>>Paraguay, I´m looking for some information.

>I looked in my copy of "Garratt Locomotives of the World", by A E
>Durrant, and what he says is, roughly:
>
>The Argentine railways FC Entre Rios and FC North Eastern Argentina
>had a number of Garratts, both 2-6-0+0-6-2 and 4-4-2+2-4-4 types. They
>were in the habit of lending them to Paraguay when there were
>shortages of power. One of the 4-4-2+2-4-4 types was reported derelict
>in Paraguay in 1977.
>
>They seem to have shared a boiler type, though AED lists it as
>superheated rather than saturated, and they were built by Beyer
>Peacock rather than Yorkshire Engine.
>
>Hope this helps...
>
>Tim
>

Pic at http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/bgpix/Fcer.jpg

Googling for garratt entre rios produced a number of hits - easy when
you know the answer ;-)

Tim

On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:40:02 +0100, Tim Illingworth
 wrote:

>On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:27:11 +0200, Edgar Warnecke 
>wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>being a native German (model)railway - enthusiast nowadays living in
>>Paraguay, I´m looking for some information.

>
>I looked in my copy of "Garratt Locomotives of the World", by A E
>Durrant, and what he says is, roughly:
>
>The Argentine railways FC Entre Rios and FC North Eastern Argentina
>had a number of Garratts, both 2-6-0+0-6-2 and 4-4-2+2-4-4 types. They
>were in the habit of lending them to Paraguay when there were
>shortages of power. One of the 4-4-2+2-4-4 types was reported derelict
>in Paraguay in 1977.
>
>They seem to have shared a boiler type, though AED lists it as
>superheated rather than saturated, and they were built by Beyer
>Peacock rather than Yorkshire Engine.
>
>Hope this helps...
>
>Tim
>
And here's the 4-4-2+2-4-4 on the same site

http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/bgpix/Fcnea.jpg

and the index page for that site:

http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/pics1.html

Tim

On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:27:11 +0200, Edgar Warnecke 
wrote:

Edgar,

>Can anyone help me find some useful information about the Sentinelrailcars
>and the 2 Garratts? 
>Neither in the archives nor at the cemetery of locos "La Triangula" nearby
>Sapucai I could find any hints.
>
>Google told me about Garratts in Africa and New Zealand, Sentinels in South
>Africa but nothing about South America.

I did a bit of checking up on the Garratts on the book I have here -
"Garratt Locomotives of the World" by A,E,Durrant.  Apparently no
Garratt locomotives were supplied to Paraguay,  but several standard
gauge 2-6-0+0-6-2 and 4-4-2+2-4-4 Garratts were supplied to FCER and
FCNEA of Argentina and these locos were occasionally loaned to the
Paraguayan Railways.  The author also remarks that one of the
Argentinean Atlantic Garratts was reported to be rotting away in the
Paraguayan railway workshops in 1977

Here's a picture of the 2-6-0+0-6-2 loco
http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/bgpix/Fcer.jpg

Here's a picture of the 4-4-2+2-4-4 loco
http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/bgpix/Fcnea.jpg.

Probably the best web site for Garratts is this site

http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/source.html

from where the pictures came.

There were a lot of Garratts in South America - and Paraguay seems to
be the exception in not having any locos supplied to the country
directly.

A lot of Garratts were produced by other manufacturers - usually under
licence from Beyer-Peacock,  but the locos you are interested in were
produced in Manchester by Beyer Peacock and there is an archive of B-P
drawing held at the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester

http://emu.msim.org.uk/htmlmn/collections/online/browsethemes/relatedobjects_lower.php?irn=4517&start=1

and you can contact them through their contact page at

http://www.msim.org.uk/contact-us.aspx

Sorry,  I'm not all that informed about Sentinel locomotives.

Jim.

Edgar Warnecke wrote:
> Hello,
[...]
> If you think another newsgroup fixes my request better, please tell me.
> 
> Regards and thanks from PY, every hint is welcome
>   
>         Edgar

You may get an answer here, there are a lot of strange obsessions 
amongst the denizens of this group. ;-)

OTOH, you could try uk.railway. Very active by the look of it. Set your 
news client to download only the most recent 50 headers or so, otherwise 
you'll be overwhelmed.

HTH

-- 
Wolf Kirchmeir

On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:12:46 -0400, Wolf Kirchmeir
 wrote:

>Edgar Warnecke wrote:
>> Hello,
>[...]
>> If you think another newsgroup fixes my request better, please tell me.
>> 
>> Regards and thanks from PY, every hint is welcome
>>   
>>         Edgar
>
>You may get an answer here, there are a lot of strange obsessions 
>amongst the denizens of this group. ;-)
>
>OTOH, you could try uk.railway. Very active by the look of it. Set your 
>news client to download only the most recent 50 headers or so, otherwise 
>you'll be overwhelmed.

The only Sentinels I know of in South America were steam motor
locomotives in Argentina and Colombia:

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/argmotor/argmotor.htm

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/colombia/colombia.htm

However Skoda in Czechoslovakia built Sentinels including railcars
under licence. I don't know much about them but....

http://www.feudal.cz/sentinel/html/sentinely_ve_fotografii.htm


>HTH

Edgar,

This poist got lost in my news server and it duplicates some of what
Tim has said but I've just sent the lot again :-)

>Can anyone help me find some useful information about the Sentinelrailcars
>and the 2 Garratts? 
>Neither in the archives nor at the cemetery of locos "La Triangula" nearby
>Sapucai I could find any hints.
>
>Google told me about Garratts in Africa and New Zealand, Sentinels in South
>Africa but nothing about South America.

I did a bit of checking up on the Garratts on the book I have here -
"Garratt Locomotives of the World" by A,E,Durrant.  Apparently no
Garratt locomotives were supplied to Paraguay,  but several standard
gauge 2-6-0+0-6-2 and 4-4-2+2-4-4 Garratts were supplied to FCER and
FCNEA of Argentina and these locos were occasionally loaned to the
Paraguayan Railways.  The author also remarks that one of the
Argentinean Atlantic Garratts was reported to be rotting away in the
Paraguayan railway workshops in 1977

Here's a picture of the 2-6-0+0-6-2 loco
http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/bgpix/Fcer.jpg

Here's a picture of the 4-4-2+2-4-4 loco
http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/bgpix/Fcnea.jpg.

Probably the best web site for Garratts is this site

http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/source.html

from where the pictures came.

There were a lot of Garratts in South America - and Paraguay seems to
be the exception in not having any locos supplied to the country
directly.

A lot of Garratts were produced by other manufacturers - usually under
licence from Beyer-Peacock,  but the locos you are interested in were
produced in Manchester by Beyer Peacock and there is an archive of B-P
drawing held at the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester

http://emu.msim.org.uk/htmlmn/collections/online/browsethemes/relatedobjects_lower.php?irn=4517&start=1

and you can contact them through their contact page at

http://www.msim.org.uk/contact-us.aspx

Sorry,  I'm not all that informed about Sentinel locomotives.

Jim.

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:58:33 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
 wrote:

Christopher,

>The only Sentinels I know of in South America were steam motor
>locomotives in Argentina and Colombia:
>
>http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/argmotor/argmotor.htm
>
>http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/colombia/colombia.htm

I wonder if the Sentinels could also have been loaned to the
Paraguayan railways in the same way as the Garratts were,  although I
note that the Sentinels were metre gauge and I'm not sure if there
were metre gauge tracks in Paraguay.

Jim.

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:44:51 +0100, Jim Guthrie wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:58:33 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
> wrote:
>
>Christopher,
>
>>The only Sentinels I know of in South America were steam motor
>>locomotives in Argentina and Colombia:
>>
>>http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/argmotor/argmotor.htm
>>
>>http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/colombia/colombia.htm
>
>I wonder if the Sentinels could also have been loaned to the
>Paraguayan railways in the same way as the Garratts were,  although I
>note that the Sentinels were metre gauge and I'm not sure if there
>were metre gauge tracks in Paraguay.

I don't know.

To be honest I wasn't too interested in Sentinels in my train spotting
days. I did occasionally see them but they weren't "real steam
locomotives". L&Y pugs, Manning Wardles etc were even though they were
tiny.

It was only when I got up close and personal with one on the Middleton
Railway in Leeds that I realised how unorthodox and ingenious they
were, with their high pressure water tube boiler, steam motor and
chain drive. They were fast steam raisers, very efficient and ideal
for light industrial shunting work. More economical than traditional
engines.

Also a lot more successful than most attempts to get away from the
Stephenson paradigm.

>Jim.