Perhaps this has been asked before but my searches have revealed
nothing.

I'm a newbie in every sense in that I will shortly, despite being a
life long obssesive railway enthusiast (crank), commence work on my
first ever layout at the grand old age of fifty.

A new house has finally provided the space I need for a large OO scale
layout that I’ve been promising myself since I was ten.

With a background in engineering (electronics) and IT the technology
holds few fears (famous last words) and therefore I’m sold utterly on
the idea of DCC.

The problem is the large array of DCC systems that are available and
deciding on my preferred product so would be very interested to hear
of others’ experiences.

The plan is to buy off-shelf trains and track (probably Peco) as I
want to get something up and running as quickly as possible. Modelling
will be confined to the scenery and although I expect (hope) to enjoy
this, for me it’s will be all about running the trains.

All advice would be much appreciated,

On Jun 19, 2:40 pm, allan tracy  wrote:
> Perhaps this has been asked before but my searches have revealed
> nothing.
>
> I'm a newbie in every sense in that I will shortly, despite being a
> life long obssesive railway enthusiast (crank), commence work on my
> first ever layout at the grand old age of fifty.
>
> A new house has finally provided the space I need for a large OO scale
> layout that I’ve been promising myself since I was ten.
>
> With a background in engineering (electronics) and IT the technology
> holds few fears (famous last words) and therefore I’m sold utterly on
> the idea of DCC.
>
> The problem is the large array of DCC systems that are available and
> deciding on my preferred product so would be very interested to hear
> of others’ experiences.
>
> The plan is to buy off-shelf trains and track (probably Peco) as I
> want to get something up and running as quickly as possible. Modelling
> will be confined to the scenery and although I expect (hope) to enjoy
> this, for me it’s will be all about running the trains.
>
> All advice would be much appreciated,

Join the DCCUK Yahoo group and ask for invites to nearby fellow
members' layouts to try out a few different systems. Ths choice of
handset can be a very personal decision.

MBQ

allan tracy wrote:
> Perhaps this has been asked before but my searches have revealed
> nothing.
>
> A new house has finally provided the space I need for a large OO scale
> layout that I’ve been promising myself since I was ten.
>
> With a background in engineering (electronics) and IT the technology
> holds few fears (famous last words) and therefore I’m sold utterly on
> the idea of DCC.

A decade plus of experience over the world should also be reassuring.
Its hardly new technology :-)


> The problem is the large array of DCC systems that are available and
> deciding on my preferred product so would be very interested to hear
> of others’ experiences.

Suggest trying the Yahoo forum "DCCUK" where you might get more specific 
questions answered.


I would suggest you visit several dealers (ideally specialists who have 
several systems for demonstration; if they only have one maker try another 
dealer) and modellers in your area to see systems in operation.
Find out what works and what does not, each maker has pros and cons.
You can spend as little as £30 on a command station or well over £500.  I 
expect you'll be spending between £100 and £200 initially.


Basics:
If it is NMRA compliant DCC, you get chips for locos from anyone, so pick 
the right chip for the loco based on available space, current consumption 
and quality of motor control.
But once you buy a command station (the controller heart) you are largely 
stuck with that maker for additional control system components(*).  So, if 
you want to control turnouts, signals, or even add automated running (all 
possible), the selection of command station maker is fairly critical.

Check how much add-ons cost, and if they are actually available. Several 
makers have items in their catelogues which have never appeared.  Some 
charge a surprisingly large amount to move from their entry controller to 
the "fully featured" system. Others have more reasonable upgrade paths.

But, equally, its possible to be very silly and over-specify the command 
station. If you only run a few trains, have no signalling/automation, then I 
don't see a reason for buying a £200+ command station.



(*) there are a few "standard" buses to allow interworking, but being a 
multiple of "standards" you find that the selections across them is limited. 
The main ones are Xpressnet (Lenz and Roco, and to an extent ZTC) and 
Loconet (Digitrax, Uhlenbrock and several small specialist makers).
Loconet may be better if you want to have a mimic diagram for turnouts, 
track occupancy, etc, and want to link this into the control system (eg CML 
electronics make several LocoNet based boards for such uses).




- Nigel



-- 
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

allan tracy wrote:
> 
> Perhaps this has been asked before but my searches have revealed
> nothing.
> 
> I'm a newbie in every sense in that I will shortly, despite being a
> life long obssesive railway enthusiast (crank), commence work on my
> first ever layout at the grand old age of fifty.
> 
> A new house has finally provided the space I need for a large OO scale
> layout that I’ve been promising myself since I was ten.
> 
> With a background in engineering (electronics) and IT the technology
> holds few fears (famous last words) and therefore I’m sold utterly on
> the idea of DCC.
> 
> The problem is the large array of DCC systems that are available and
> deciding on my preferred product so would be very interested to hear
> of others’ experiences.
> 
> The plan is to buy off-shelf trains and track (probably Peco) as I
> want to get something up and running as quickly as possible. Modelling
> will be confined to the scenery and although I expect (hope) to enjoy
> this, for me it’s will be all about running the trains.
> 
> All advice would be much appreciated,


There are lots of different systems on the market, each with different
levels of capability, limitations and abilities.
Which one you require depends upon what you will do with it, which may
well not be what you imagine you will do with it.
Once you come up against a specification limit it's probable that
there's no fix or upgrade so you will be forced to buy something better.
(like with a digital camera or other consumer appliance)
Within 3-5 years the technology will have upgraded to the point where
you'll want the latest, so my suggestion is that you dive in with
whatever you can source locally.
My only real advice :-) is that you sound like someone who will want a
computer interface with your DCC.

Regards,
Greg.P.

"Greg Procter"  wrote in message 
news:485AC150.A2461FD9@ihug.co.nz...
> allan tracy wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps this has been asked before but my searches have revealed
>> nothing.
>>
>> I'm a newbie in every sense in that I will shortly, despite being a
>> life long obssesive railway enthusiast (crank), commence work on my
>> first ever layout at the grand old age of fifty.
>>
>> A new house has finally provided the space I need for a large OO scale
>> layout that I've been promising myself since I was ten.
>>
>> With a background in engineering (electronics) and IT the technology
>> holds few fears (famous last words) and therefore I'm sold utterly on
>> the idea of DCC.
>>
>> The problem is the large array of DCC systems that are available and
>> deciding on my preferred product so would be very interested to hear
>> of others' experiences.
>>
>> The plan is to buy off-shelf trains and track (probably Peco) as I
>> want to get something up and running as quickly as possible. Modelling
>> will be confined to the scenery and although I expect (hope) to enjoy
>> this, for me it's will be all about running the trains.
>>
>> All advice would be much appreciated,
>
>
> There are lots of different systems on the market, each with different
> levels of capability, limitations and abilities.
> Which one you require depends upon what you will do with it, which may
> well not be what you imagine you will do with it.
> Once you come up against a specification limit it's probable that
> there's no fix or upgrade so you will be forced to buy something better.
> (like with a digital camera or other consumer appliance)
> Within 3-5 years the technology will have upgraded to the point where
> you'll want the latest, so my suggestion is that you dive in with
> whatever you can source locally.
> My only real advice :-) is that you sound like someone who will want a
> computer interface with your DCC.
>
> Regards,
> Greg.P.

Very good advice from Greg.
If you want the best price performance at approx £120 then go for Hornby 
Elite. Compare its spec to any other that is recommended and if it doesnt 
have equivalent features at around the same price then your decision is 
easy.
It is NMRA compatible and reliable.

Any questions do ask.

Cheers,
Simon

manatbandq@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 19, 2:40 pm, allan tracy  wrote:
>> Perhaps this has been asked before but my searches have revealed
>> nothing.
>>
>> I'm a newbie in every sense in that I will shortly, despite being a
>> life long obssesive railway enthusiast (crank), commence work on my
>> first ever layout at the grand old age of fifty.
>>
>> A new house has finally provided the space I need for a large OO scale
>> layout that I’ve been promising myself since I was ten.
>>
>> With a background in engineering (electronics) and IT the technology
>> holds few fears (famous last words) and therefore I’m sold utterly on
>> the idea of DCC.
>>
>> The problem is the large array of DCC systems that are available and
>> deciding on my preferred product so would be very interested to hear
>> of others’ experiences.
>>
>> The plan is to buy off-shelf trains and track (probably Peco) as I
>> want to get something up and running as quickly as possible. Modelling
>> will be confined to the scenery and although I expect (hope) to enjoy
>> this, for me it’s will be all about running the trains.
>>
>> All advice would be much appreciated,
> 
> Join the DCCUK Yahoo group and ask for invites to nearby fellow
> members' layouts to try out a few different systems. Ths choice of
> handset can be a very personal decision.
> 
> MBQ


Very valuable advice.

The only thing I'd add, is to make sure you get an NMRA compliant 
system. Then any other NMRA compliant bits  will work with it, and you 
won't be stuck with a proprietary system that won't work with other ones.

HTH

-- 
wolf k.

Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
> manatbandq@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Jun 19, 2:40 pm, allan tracy  wrote:
>>> Perhaps this has been asked before but my searches have revealed
>>> nothing.
>>>
>>> I'm a newbie in every sense in that I will shortly, despite being a
>>> life long obssesive railway enthusiast (crank), commence work on my
>>> first ever layout at the grand old age of fifty.
>>>
>>> A new house has finally provided the space I need for a large OO scale
>>> layout that I’ve been promising myself since I was ten.
>>>
>>> With a background in engineering (electronics) and IT the technology
>>> holds few fears (famous last words) and therefore I’m sold utterly on
>>> the idea of DCC.
>>>
>>> The problem is the large array of DCC systems that are available and
>>> deciding on my preferred product so would be very interested to hear
>>> of others’ experiences.
>>>
>>> The plan is to buy off-shelf trains and track (probably Peco) as I
>>> want to get something up and running as quickly as possible. Modelling
>>> will be confined to the scenery and although I expect (hope) to enjoy
>>> this, for me it’s will be all about running the trains.
>>>
>>> All advice would be much appreciated,
>>
>> Join the DCCUK Yahoo group and ask for invites to nearby fellow
>> members' layouts to try out a few different systems. Ths choice of
>> handset can be a very personal decision.
>>
>> MBQ
> 
> 
> Very valuable advice.
> 
> The only thing I'd add, is to make sure you get an NMRA compliant 
> system. Then any other NMRA compliant bits  will work with it, and you 
> won't be stuck with a proprietary system that won't work with other ones.
> 
> HTH
> 
I would add should rather than will, some are more compliant than 
others. From experience one manufacturer built around at top end of the 
frequency spec and another at the bottom so would work with all other 
systems apart form each other.

Chris

Just a slight deviation from the discussion so far - I'm in a similar
position to the original poster at present (in choosing a control
system).  One thing I've found most difficult is simply finding
comparrable info on the different systems available - manufacturer's
websites obviously each play up their own system, and people's
opinions are always subjective.  Even good model shops only seem to
stock a few systems, so again, full hands-on comparrison is not easy.

Is there a website which has basic comparrisons of the main systems
available, with basic descriptions of function, features, limitations
and compatibility of the various systems?  Oh, and using accessible
language!?

Anyone know of such a site?

Ben.

Ben wrote:
> Just a slight deviation from the discussion so far - I'm in a similar
> position to the original poster at present (in choosing a control
> system).  One thing I've found most difficult is simply finding
> comparrable info on the different systems available - manufacturer's
> websites obviously each play up their own system, and people's
> opinions are always subjective.  Even good model shops only seem to
> stock a few systems, so again, full hands-on comparrison is not easy.
> 
> Is there a website which has basic comparrisons of the main systems
> available, with basic descriptions of function, features, limitations
> and compatibility of the various systems?  Oh, and using accessible
> language!?
> 
> Anyone know of such a site?
> 
> Ben.


http://www.p4me.net/DCC/systems.html

-- 
wolf k.

http://www.tonystrains.com/

Ben wrote:
> Just a slight deviation from the discussion so far - I'm in a similar
> position to the original poster at present (in choosing a control
> system).  One thing I've found most difficult is simply finding
> comparrable info on the different systems available - manufacturer's
> websites obviously each play up their own system, and people's
> opinions are always subjective.  Even good model shops only seem to
> stock a few systems, so again, full hands-on comparrison is not easy.
> 
> Is there a website which has basic comparrisons of the main systems
> available, with basic descriptions of function, features, limitations
> and compatibility of the various systems?  Oh, and using accessible
> language!?
> 
> Anyone know of such a site?
> 
> Ben.

Ben wrote:
> Just a slight deviation from the discussion so far - I'm in a similar
> position to the original poster at present (in choosing a control
> system).  One thing I've found most difficult is simply finding
> comparrable info on the different systems available - manufacturer's
> websites obviously each play up their own system, and people's
> opinions are always subjective.  Even good model shops only seem to
> stock a few systems, so again, full hands-on comparrison is not easy.
>
> Is there a website which has basic comparrisons of the main systems
> available, with basic descriptions of function, features, limitations
> and compatibility of the various systems?  Oh, and using accessible
> language!?
>
> Anyone know of such a site?

The two links given are a starter, but both are a bit out of date and lack a 
few critical things.

There are a handful of DCC specialist dealers around the country with 
test/demonstration facilities. I think it is worth a day out if 
contemplating spending a lot. I know of: Digitrains, Bromsgrove Models, DCC 
Supplies and Sunningwell Command Control.  The latter are a bit limited 
(Digitrax + NCE), but are very knowledgeable on them.

You could ask around for modellers in your area who have a system they are 
willing to demonstrate (the previously mentioned DCCUK Yahoo forum is a good 
start). That is likely to give a warts and all view of their system (though 
most people will defend a £200+ purchase even if it is not really that 
good).

Another approach is to either spend months reading manuals, support forums, 
etc, to try to get to the bottom of what each system can do.

Most people I've met seem to end up with a system which is over-specified 
for their requirements; they have one handset and a handful of turnouts 
running on a system capable of driving 50+trains and hundreds of turnouts 
(and the system is way to complicated because it is capable of driving such 
a huge empire). The best systems I've driven on model railways are simple to 
use.

I would suggest you start with a sub-£120 system unless you have a 
compelling reason to spend more.


- Nigel


-- 
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

On 23 Jun, 09:05, "Nigel Cliffe"  wrote:

--Snipped--

> I would suggest you start with a sub-£120 system unless you have a
> compelling reason to spend more.
>
> - Nigel

Hi Nigel,

Many thanks for this reply, it is most helpful.  Thanks also to Wolf
and John, those sites did provide a useful reference... if nothing
else, to give a quick view of all the popular systems available: there
were some listed which seem to be established and popular, but I had
never seen them mentioned before so had not considered them.

When I started looking into this, the first system I saw was Hornby's
offering.  I took an instant dislike to it just from the picture,
probably because ten years or so ago, when I had a 'train set' layout,
I always bought Hornby, but every exhibition I went to had every other
make of everything on display, with all the advice being 'Don't buy
Hornby because it is... too expensive / inaccurate / poor quality /
too train-set-ish etc".

However, the more I look at other systems and compare expandability,
compatibility, capacity, and even quality of supporting literature, I
seem to be coming back to the Hornby... as you say Nigel... stick with
something sub-£120 for a starter.  My layout will be in a loft so
space is limited (for track and operators!).  It will never move, let
alone to an exhibition!  I can't forsee ever having more than two
operators, and I'm not interested in train position sensing, automatic
running and all that business.

I'll be enquiring of some of the shops you mention, thanks for the
details.

Best regards,

Ben.

Ben wrote:
> On 23 Jun, 09:05, "Nigel Cliffe"  wrote:
>
> --Snipped--
>
>> I would suggest you start with a sub-£120 system unless you have a
>> compelling reason to spend more.

> When I started looking into this, the first system I saw was Hornby's
> offering.  I took an instant dislike to it just from the picture,
> probably because ten years or so ago, when I had a 'train set' layout,
> I always bought Hornby, but every exhibition I went to had every other
> make of everything on display, with all the advice being 'Don't buy
> Hornby because it is... too expensive / inaccurate / poor quality /
> too train-set-ish etc".
>
> However, the more I look at other systems and compare expandability,
> compatibility, capacity, and even quality of supporting literature, I
> seem to be coming back to the Hornby... as you say Nigel... stick with
> something sub-£120 for a starter.  My layout will be in a loft so
> space is limited (for track and operators!).  It will never move, let
> alone to an exhibition!  I can't forsee ever having more than two
> operators, and I'm not interested in train position sensing, automatic
> running and all that business.

I would shortlist the following from the above description:

Hornby Elite; seems OK, conforms to standards. Two controller knobs 
(throttles) in one box for reasonable price. Some expansion with additional 
throttles. Might do well on a traditional loft layout.
Digitrax Zephyr. One throttle as standard, but can add two more instantly if 
you have a couple of old 0-12v analogue controllers (only device with "jump 
throttle"). Additional proper DCC throttles cost from £45 in the UK (several 
designs, not just from Digitrax).
NCE Power Cab. Probably easiest to use system which still does "everything". 
Depends if you like the handheld design. Can be reconfigured by owner to 
suit requirements (change every button's behaviour if wanted !). One 
throttle as standard, can add a second from about £50 (several different 
designs available at differing prices), but further expansion beyond two 
requires an upgrade to their more expensive systems (the bits bought can all 
be re-used).
Roco MultiMaus.  Single handset controller, some limitations, but works 
well. Can add more handsets to basic system.

I've skipped the Bachmann Dynamis because its a single handset system at 
present; the upgrade bits to allow second controller are not on sale yet 
(and the dealer pricelist which was published a while back suggests the 
upgrade will be expensive).




- Nigel


-- 
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Nigel Cliffe wrote:
> Ben wrote:
>> Just a slight deviation from the discussion so far - I'm in a similar
>> position to the original poster at present (in choosing a control
>> system).  One thing I've found most difficult is simply finding
>> comparrable info on the different systems available - manufacturer's
>> websites obviously each play up their own system, and people's
>> opinions are always subjective.  Even good model shops only seem to
>> stock a few systems, so again, full hands-on comparrison is not easy.
>>
>> Is there a website which has basic comparrisons of the main systems
>> available, with basic descriptions of function, features, limitations
>> and compatibility of the various systems?  Oh, and using accessible
>> language!?
>>
>> Anyone know of such a site?
> 
> The two links given are a starter, but both are a bit out of date and lack a 
> few critical things.
> 
> There are a handful of DCC specialist dealers around the country with 
> test/demonstration facilities. I think it is worth a day out if 
> contemplating spending a lot. I know of: Digitrains, Bromsgrove Models, DCC 
> Supplies and Sunningwell Command Control.  The latter are a bit limited 
> (Digitrax + NCE), but are very knowledgeable on them.
> 
> You could ask around for modellers in your area who have a system they are 
> willing to demonstrate (the previously mentioned DCCUK Yahoo forum is a good 
> start). That is likely to give a warts and all view of their system (though 
> most people will defend a £200+ purchase even if it is not really that 
> good).
> 
> Another approach is to either spend months reading manuals, support forums, 
> etc, to try to get to the bottom of what each system can do.
> 
> Most people I've met seem to end up with a system which is over-specified 
> for their requirements; they have one handset and a handful of turnouts 
> running on a system capable of driving 50+trains and hundreds of turnouts 
> (and the system is way to complicated because it is capable of driving such 
> a huge empire). The best systems I've driven on model railways are simple to 
> use.
> 
> I would suggest you start with a sub-£120 system unless you have a 
> compelling reason to spend more.
> 
> 
> - Nigel
> 
> 
You could also try MERG and DEMU. The latter's exhibition last had a 
large number of layouts with DCC and some quite noisy with all the 
diesels ticking over. Plenty of people showing off with showing how to 
set up sound on decoders.

Chris

"Nigel Cliffe"  wrote in message 
news:g3q78r$4m2$1@news.albasani.net...
> Ben wrote:
>> On 23 Jun, 09:05, "Nigel Cliffe"  wrote:
>>
>> --Snipped--
>>
>>> I would suggest you start with a sub-£120 system unless you have a
>>> compelling reason to spend more.
>
>> When I started looking into this, the first system I saw was Hornby's
>> offering.  I took an instant dislike to it just from the picture,
>> probably because ten years or so ago, when I had a 'train set' layout,
>> I always bought Hornby, but every exhibition I went to had every other
>> make of everything on display, with all the advice being 'Don't buy
>> Hornby because it is... too expensive / inaccurate / poor quality /
>> too train-set-ish etc".
>>
>> However, the more I look at other systems and compare expandability,
>> compatibility, capacity, and even quality of supporting literature, I
>> seem to be coming back to the Hornby... as you say Nigel... stick with
>> something sub-£120 for a starter.  My layout will be in a loft so
>> space is limited (for track and operators!).  It will never move, let
>> alone to an exhibition!  I can't forsee ever having more than two
>> operators, and I'm not interested in train position sensing, automatic
>> running and all that business.
>
> I would shortlist the following from the above description:
>
> Hornby Elite; seems OK, conforms to standards. Two controller knobs 
> (throttles) in one box for reasonable price. Some expansion with 
> additional throttles. Might do well on a traditional loft layout.
>
would add it already has computer connection and reasonable power at 4 AMP 
(said to be one for points and 3 for track).
(no connection except except had an Elite for a year or so and rather like 
it).

>
>
> - Nigel
>
>
> -- 
> Nigel Cliffe,
> Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
>

Cheers,
Simon

Thanks for the very helpful replies.

Since I’ve been digging I now have better idea of my requirements
based on what I’ve discovered DCC can deliver.

Apart from the basic train control other features I will definitely be
looking for are sound (completely sold on that), point control,
possibly uncoupling (still need to investigate that further) and I
guess signalling.

All of the above features would be nice to have but will depend
largely on how much work is involved.

A computer interface sounds nice, for the longer term; presumably
there are commercial software packages available to support
automation.

Yet again thanks to all for all the help.

allan tracy wrote:
> Thanks for the very helpful replies.
> 
> Since I’ve been digging I now have better idea of my requirements
> based on what I’ve discovered DCC can deliver.
> 
> Apart from the basic train control other features I will definitely be
> looking for are sound (completely sold on that), point control,
> possibly uncoupling (still need to investigate that further) and I
> guess signalling.
> 
> All of the above features would be nice to have but will depend
> largely on how much work is involved.
> 
> A computer interface sounds nice, for the longer term; presumably
> there are commercial software packages available to support
> automation.
> 
> Yet again thanks to all for all the help.
There is free software in the form of JMRI which being open source you 
can customise and share with others works with most systems including 
Lenz and Digitrax. Based on Java so not tied to Windows either.

Chris