Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using transfers with 
black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928 express 
passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which colour(s) to use 
for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......

cheers,
Simon

simon wrote:
> 
> Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using transfers with
> black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928 express
> passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which colour(s) to use
> for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
> Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......
> 
> cheers,
> Simon


If this was a 'real friend' I'd suggest that he/she start again and get
the lining right.
Otherwise copious layers of tar should cover the lining but not the
memory.

Regards,
Greg.P.

"Greg Procter"  wrote in message 
news:4845C32D.9436A406@ihug.co.nz...
> simon wrote:
>>
>> Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using transfers with
>> black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928 express
>> passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which colour(s) to use
>> for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
>> Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......
>>
>> cheers,
>> Simon
>
>
> If this was a 'real friend' I'd suggest that he/she start again and get
> the lining right.
> Otherwise copious layers of tar should cover the lining but not the
> memory.
>
> Regards,
> Greg.P.

Thank you kindly ....
Yes but youre a capable perfectionist with years of experience. I just want 
something that looks ok from normal viewing distance.

tar - how does that translate to Humbol colour sceme ?

Cheers,
Simon

simon wrote:
> 
> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> news:4845C32D.9436A406@ihug.co.nz...
> > simon wrote:
> >>
> >> Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using transfers with
> >> black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928 express
> >> passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which colour(s) to use
> >> for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
> >> Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> Simon
> >
> >
> > If this was a 'real friend' I'd suggest that he/she start again and get
> > the lining right.
> > Otherwise copious layers of tar should cover the lining but not the
> > memory.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg.P.
> 
> Thank you kindly ....
> Yes but youre a capable perfectionist with years of experience. I just want
> something that looks ok from normal viewing distance.
> 
> tar - how does that translate to Humbol colour sceme ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Hi Simon,

"Capable perfectionist" Hmmmm.

Waaayyyy back when I was starting high school I built a couple of wagons
- one was a low side open using Hornby Dublo wheels (a catalogue part)
My grandfather showed me how to cut out tinplate with a chisel and how
to punch holes using a nail and I made a balsa and card body. It was so
light it wouldn't stay on the track, and frankly it looked terrible! The
second one used proprietry bogies and a card/balsa body with an old bolt
glued inside. The only paint I had was an ancient tin of teak from Dad's
shed. It really didn't look like 'red-oxide' in the least, but I was
quite proud and it stayed on the track. Then there was an NZR Ec Class
Bo'Bo' built on an old Lone Star Treble-Oh chassis. It looked like the
prototype if you squinted at the right angle. ... Later I built a
layered card passenger carriage using the bogies of the above goods
wagon (HD) I still have that coach stashed away, mostly to keep myself
humble when I get too big-headed. The first (acceptable) loco I built
went through Mks 1 to 7 before I was satisfied. A few years later DJH 
brought out the same model and then Roco brought it out to a standard
I'll never reach.

Where is all this going?
- I've never been satisfied long term with models I've bodged.
- When I've failed I've tried again.
- none of my 'perfect' models are anything like perfect, but only I know
their faults.
- Don't stop building a model because something isn't perfect, but stop
and start again if you know you can do it better.
When you've made enough mistakes you learn what won't work and what
isn't acceptable. Of course there's still more mistakes to be made, but
your chances of success get better.

Regards,
Greg.P.

"Greg Procter"  wrote in message 
news:4845CDB0.A6F6CFE@ihug.co.nz...
> simon wrote:
>>
>> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> news:4845C32D.9436A406@ihug.co.nz...
>> > simon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using transfers 
>> >> with
>> >> black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928 express
>> >> passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which colour(s) to 
>> >> use
>> >> for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
>> >> Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......
>> >>
>> >> cheers,
>> >> Simon
>> >
>> >
>> > If this was a 'real friend' I'd suggest that he/she start again and get
>> > the lining right.
>> > Otherwise copious layers of tar should cover the lining but not the
>> > memory.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Greg.P.
>>
>> Thank you kindly ....
>> Yes but youre a capable perfectionist with years of experience. I just 
>> want
>> something that looks ok from normal viewing distance.
>>
>> tar - how does that translate to Humbol colour sceme ?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Simon
>
>
> Hi Simon,
>
> "Capable perfectionist" Hmmmm.
>
> Waaayyyy back when I was starting high school I built a couple of wagons
> - one was a low side open using Hornby Dublo wheels (a catalogue part)
> My grandfather showed me how to cut out tinplate with a chisel and how
> to punch holes using a nail and I made a balsa and card body. It was so
> light it wouldn't stay on the track, and frankly it looked terrible! The
> second one used proprietry bogies and a card/balsa body with an old bolt
> glued inside. The only paint I had was an ancient tin of teak from Dad's
> shed. It really didn't look like 'red-oxide' in the least, but I was
> quite proud and it stayed on the track. Then there was an NZR Ec Class
> Bo'Bo' built on an old Lone Star Treble-Oh chassis. It looked like the
> prototype if you squinted at the right angle. ... Later I built a
> layered card passenger carriage using the bogies of the above goods
> wagon (HD) I still have that coach stashed away, mostly to keep myself
> humble when I get too big-headed. The first (acceptable) loco I built
> went through Mks 1 to 7 before I was satisfied. A few years later DJH
> brought out the same model and then Roco brought it out to a standard
> I'll never reach.
>
> Where is all this going?
> - I've never been satisfied long term with models I've bodged.
> - When I've failed I've tried again.
> - none of my 'perfect' models are anything like perfect, but only I know
> their faults.
> - Don't stop building a model because something isn't perfect, but stop
> and start again if you know you can do it better.
> When you've made enough mistakes you learn what won't work and what
> isn't acceptable. Of course there's still more mistakes to be made, but
> your chances of success get better.
>
> Regards,
> Greg.P.

True, but this is a legitimate bodge. Theres a number of captions in 
reference books where they arent sure if a loco is lined or not cos the 
lining is only visible in places as an outline.
Always intended to weather it - perhaps just make it a bit dirtier now.

Cheers,
Simon

simon wrote:
> 
> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> news:4845CDB0.A6F6CFE@ihug.co.nz...
> > simon wrote:
> >>
> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> news:4845C32D.9436A406@ihug.co.nz...
> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using transfers
> >> >> with
> >> >> black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928 express
> >> >> passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which colour(s) to
> >> >> use
> >> >> for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
> >> >> Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......
> >> >>
> >> >> cheers,
> >> >> Simon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > If this was a 'real friend' I'd suggest that he/she start again and get
> >> > the lining right.
> >> > Otherwise copious layers of tar should cover the lining but not the
> >> > memory.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Greg.P.
> >>
> >> Thank you kindly ....
> >> Yes but youre a capable perfectionist with years of experience. I just
> >> want
> >> something that looks ok from normal viewing distance.
> >>
> >> tar - how does that translate to Humbol colour sceme ?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Simon
> >
> >
> > Hi Simon,
> >
> > "Capable perfectionist" Hmmmm.
> >
> > Waaayyyy back when I was starting high school I built a couple of wagons
> > - one was a low side open using Hornby Dublo wheels (a catalogue part)
> > My grandfather showed me how to cut out tinplate with a chisel and how
> > to punch holes using a nail and I made a balsa and card body. It was so
> > light it wouldn't stay on the track, and frankly it looked terrible! The
> > second one used proprietry bogies and a card/balsa body with an old bolt
> > glued inside. The only paint I had was an ancient tin of teak from Dad's
> > shed. It really didn't look like 'red-oxide' in the least, but I was
> > quite proud and it stayed on the track. Then there was an NZR Ec Class
> > Bo'Bo' built on an old Lone Star Treble-Oh chassis. It looked like the
> > prototype if you squinted at the right angle. ... Later I built a
> > layered card passenger carriage using the bogies of the above goods
> > wagon (HD) I still have that coach stashed away, mostly to keep myself
> > humble when I get too big-headed. The first (acceptable) loco I built
> > went through Mks 1 to 7 before I was satisfied. A few years later DJH
> > brought out the same model and then Roco brought it out to a standard
> > I'll never reach.
> >
> > Where is all this going?
> > - I've never been satisfied long term with models I've bodged.
> > - When I've failed I've tried again.
> > - none of my 'perfect' models are anything like perfect, but only I know
> > their faults.
> > - Don't stop building a model because something isn't perfect, but stop
> > and start again if you know you can do it better.
> > When you've made enough mistakes you learn what won't work and what
> > isn't acceptable. Of course there's still more mistakes to be made, but
> > your chances of success get better.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg.P.
> 
> True, but this is a legitimate bodge. Theres a number of captions in
> reference books where they arent sure if a loco is lined or not cos the
> lining is only visible in places as an outline.
> Always intended to weather it - perhaps just make it a bit dirtier now.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


In that case, you want a non-glossy black, let down with a touch of
white and a touch of red-oxide. The white _should_ make the black go
matt.
The "rust" of the red oxide should be greater lower down, almost 50% on
the underframe and minimal near the top.
Use more white on footplates and top surfaces.
Overhead? Add some light green to simulate copper oxide near the top.
You need to _spray_ the weathering on. One of those cheap and nasty $15-
airbrushes (UKP5-?) you find in hardware shops that think they have an
art department will do. A car spare tyre pumped up to 30-50lb/sq.in will
be adequate for the job. Spray on the lightest coat of your _thinned_
Humbrol that you can - check it in sunshine (I guess that would be
daylight in England ;-) and then add some more. Stop before you overdo
it! Stop when it's no longer fun.
Look at lots of colour photos to see where the muck should be.
If people refuse to touch your loco or check their fingers after
touching it, then you've got it nicely grubby!

Greg.P.

"Greg Procter"  wrote in message 
news:4845D935.714E11C4@ihug.co.nz...
> simon wrote:
>>
>> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> news:4845CDB0.A6F6CFE@ihug.co.nz...
>> > simon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> >> news:4845C32D.9436A406@ihug.co.nz...
>> >> > simon wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using 
>> >> >> transfers
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928 
>> >> >> express
>> >> >> passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which colour(s) 
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> use
>> >> >> for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
>> >> >> Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......
>> >> >>
>> >> >> cheers,
>> >> >> Simon
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > If this was a 'real friend' I'd suggest that he/she start again and 
>> >> > get
>> >> > the lining right.
>> >> > Otherwise copious layers of tar should cover the lining but not the
>> >> > memory.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Greg.P.
>> >>
>> >> Thank you kindly ....
>> >> Yes but youre a capable perfectionist with years of experience. I just
>> >> want
>> >> something that looks ok from normal viewing distance.
>> >>
>> >> tar - how does that translate to Humbol colour sceme ?
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Simon
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi Simon,
>> >
>> > "Capable perfectionist" Hmmmm.
>> >
>> > Waaayyyy back when I was starting high school I built a couple of 
>> > wagons
>> > - one was a low side open using Hornby Dublo wheels (a catalogue part)
>> > My grandfather showed me how to cut out tinplate with a chisel and how
>> > to punch holes using a nail and I made a balsa and card body. It was so
>> > light it wouldn't stay on the track, and frankly it looked terrible! 
>> > The
>> > second one used proprietry bogies and a card/balsa body with an old 
>> > bolt
>> > glued inside. The only paint I had was an ancient tin of teak from 
>> > Dad's
>> > shed. It really didn't look like 'red-oxide' in the least, but I was
>> > quite proud and it stayed on the track. Then there was an NZR Ec Class
>> > Bo'Bo' built on an old Lone Star Treble-Oh chassis. It looked like the
>> > prototype if you squinted at the right angle. ... Later I built a
>> > layered card passenger carriage using the bogies of the above goods
>> > wagon (HD) I still have that coach stashed away, mostly to keep myself
>> > humble when I get too big-headed. The first (acceptable) loco I built
>> > went through Mks 1 to 7 before I was satisfied. A few years later DJH
>> > brought out the same model and then Roco brought it out to a standard
>> > I'll never reach.
>> >
>> > Where is all this going?
>> > - I've never been satisfied long term with models I've bodged.
>> > - When I've failed I've tried again.
>> > - none of my 'perfect' models are anything like perfect, but only I 
>> > know
>> > their faults.
>> > - Don't stop building a model because something isn't perfect, but stop
>> > and start again if you know you can do it better.
>> > When you've made enough mistakes you learn what won't work and what
>> > isn't acceptable. Of course there's still more mistakes to be made, but
>> > your chances of success get better.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Greg.P.
>>
>> True, but this is a legitimate bodge. Theres a number of captions in
>> reference books where they arent sure if a loco is lined or not cos the
>> lining is only visible in places as an outline.
>> Always intended to weather it - perhaps just make it a bit dirtier now.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Simon
>
>
> In that case, you want a non-glossy black, let down with a touch of
> white and a touch of red-oxide. The white _should_ make the black go
> matt.
> The "rust" of the red oxide should be greater lower down, almost 50% on
> the underframe and minimal near the top.
> Use more white on footplates and top surfaces.
> Overhead? Add some light green to simulate copper oxide near the top.
> You need to _spray_ the weathering on. One of those cheap and nasty $15-
> airbrushes (UKP5-?) you find in hardware shops that think they have an
> art department will do. A car spare tyre pumped up to 30-50lb/sq.in will
> be adequate for the job. Spray on the lightest coat of your _thinned_
> Humbrol that you can - check it in sunshine (I guess that would be
> daylight in England ;-) and then add some more. Stop before you overdo
> it! Stop when it's no longer fun.
> Look at lots of colour photos to see where the muck should be.
> If people refuse to touch your loco or check their fingers after
> touching it, then you've got it nicely grubby!
>
> Greg.P.

Was just about to remove the worst bits of lining (50%) and start again and 
you give an full answer. Thank you for that. May just replace the extreme 
bad bits.
Any hints if dont want to use an airbrush - managed ok with gunmetal by 
waiting a short while then reburush, wait another short while and rebrush 
till evenly spread.

Thanks
Simon

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:14:25 +0100, "simon"  said
in :

>Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using transfers with 
>black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928 express 
>passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which colour(s) to use 
>for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
>Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......

Make a policy of only looking at it through beer goggles.  Should
work well enough.

Incidentally, on another NG today they referenced a word new to me
but instantly comprehensible and of relevance here: a pingfuckit.  I
take it this requires no further explanation?  I believe the
original reference is along the lines of "now reinsert the
pingfuckit clip..."

Guy
-- 
May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

simon wrote:
> 
> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> news:4845D935.714E11C4@ihug.co.nz...
> > simon wrote:
> >>
> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> news:4845CDB0.A6F6CFE@ihug.co.nz...
> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> >> news:4845C32D.9436A406@ihug.co.nz...
> >> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using
> >> >> >> transfers
> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928
> >> >> >> express
> >> >> >> passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which colour(s)
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> use
> >> >> >> for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
> >> >> >> Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> cheers,
> >> >> >> Simon
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If this was a 'real friend' I'd suggest that he/she start again and
> >> >> > get
> >> >> > the lining right.
> >> >> > Otherwise copious layers of tar should cover the lining but not the
> >> >> > memory.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> > Greg.P.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thank you kindly ....
> >> >> Yes but youre a capable perfectionist with years of experience. I just
> >> >> want
> >> >> something that looks ok from normal viewing distance.
> >> >>
> >> >> tar - how does that translate to Humbol colour sceme ?
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> Simon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Hi Simon,
> >> >
> >> > "Capable perfectionist" Hmmmm.
> >> >
> >> > Waaayyyy back when I was starting high school I built a couple of
> >> > wagons
> >> > - one was a low side open using Hornby Dublo wheels (a catalogue part)
> >> > My grandfather showed me how to cut out tinplate with a chisel and how
> >> > to punch holes using a nail and I made a balsa and card body. It was so
> >> > light it wouldn't stay on the track, and frankly it looked terrible!
> >> > The
> >> > second one used proprietry bogies and a card/balsa body with an old
> >> > bolt
> >> > glued inside. The only paint I had was an ancient tin of teak from
> >> > Dad's
> >> > shed. It really didn't look like 'red-oxide' in the least, but I was
> >> > quite proud and it stayed on the track. Then there was an NZR Ec Class
> >> > Bo'Bo' built on an old Lone Star Treble-Oh chassis. It looked like the
> >> > prototype if you squinted at the right angle. ... Later I built a
> >> > layered card passenger carriage using the bogies of the above goods
> >> > wagon (HD) I still have that coach stashed away, mostly to keep myself
> >> > humble when I get too big-headed. The first (acceptable) loco I built
> >> > went through Mks 1 to 7 before I was satisfied. A few years later DJH
> >> > brought out the same model and then Roco brought it out to a standard
> >> > I'll never reach.
> >> >
> >> > Where is all this going?
> >> > - I've never been satisfied long term with models I've bodged.
> >> > - When I've failed I've tried again.
> >> > - none of my 'perfect' models are anything like perfect, but only I
> >> > know
> >> > their faults.
> >> > - Don't stop building a model because something isn't perfect, but stop
> >> > and start again if you know you can do it better.
> >> > When you've made enough mistakes you learn what won't work and what
> >> > isn't acceptable. Of course there's still more mistakes to be made, but
> >> > your chances of success get better.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Greg.P.
> >>
> >> True, but this is a legitimate bodge. Theres a number of captions in
> >> reference books where they arent sure if a loco is lined or not cos the
> >> lining is only visible in places as an outline.
> >> Always intended to weather it - perhaps just make it a bit dirtier now.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Simon
> >
> >
> > In that case, you want a non-glossy black, let down with a touch of
> > white and a touch of red-oxide. The white _should_ make the black go
> > matt.
> > The "rust" of the red oxide should be greater lower down, almost 50% on
> > the underframe and minimal near the top.
> > Use more white on footplates and top surfaces.
> > Overhead? Add some light green to simulate copper oxide near the top.
> > You need to _spray_ the weathering on. One of those cheap and nasty $15-
> > airbrushes (UKP5-?) you find in hardware shops that think they have an
> > art department will do. A car spare tyre pumped up to 30-50lb/sq.in will
> > be adequate for the job. Spray on the lightest coat of your _thinned_
> > Humbrol that you can - check it in sunshine (I guess that would be
> > daylight in England ;-) and then add some more. Stop before you overdo
> > it! Stop when it's no longer fun.
> > Look at lots of colour photos to see where the muck should be.
> > If people refuse to touch your loco or check their fingers after
> > touching it, then you've got it nicely grubby!
> >
> > Greg.P.
> 
> Was just about to remove the worst bits of lining (50%) and start again and
> you give an full answer. Thank you for that. May just replace the extreme
> bad bits.
> Any hints if dont want to use an airbrush - managed ok with gunmetal by
> waiting a short while then reburush, wait another short while and rebrush
> till evenly spread.
> 
> Thanks
> Simon

Hi Simon,

I'm a professional artist these days and know how to make any pattern
you want with a paintbrush and paint, ink ... :-)
To get the weathered finish you want with no brush marks would require
good quality fine ground pigment paint (a new tin of Humbrol _might_
just do) strained through the finest strainer you can get (very fine
nylon stockings)
thinned about 3:1 and applied with a _really_ good quality brush in a
reverse stippling manner. That paint brush is going to cost you more
than the airbrush I suggested and won't do as good a job. Anything less
is going to look like tar painted on with a six inch paintbrush. (ie
BAD)
Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - If you
never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar will
do the job ;-)

Greg.P.

"Greg Procter"  wrote in message 
news:4846F670.9DDB8376@ihug.co.nz...
> simon wrote:
>>
>> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> news:4845D935.714E11C4@ihug.co.nz...
>> > simon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> >> news:4845CDB0.A6F6CFE@ihug.co.nz...
>> >> > simon wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> >> >> news:4845C32D.9436A406@ihug.co.nz...
>> >> >> > simon wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using
>> >> >> >> transfers
>> >> >> >> with
>> >> >> >> black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928
>> >> >> >> express
>> >> >> >> passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which 
>> >> >> >> colour(s)
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> use
>> >> >> >> for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
>> >> >> >> Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> cheers,
>> >> >> >> Simon
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > If this was a 'real friend' I'd suggest that he/she start again 
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > get
>> >> >> > the lining right.
>> >> >> > Otherwise copious layers of tar should cover the lining but not 
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > memory.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Regards,
>> >> >> > Greg.P.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thank you kindly ....
>> >> >> Yes but youre a capable perfectionist with years of experience. I 
>> >> >> just
>> >> >> want
>> >> >> something that looks ok from normal viewing distance.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> tar - how does that translate to Humbol colour sceme ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cheers,
>> >> >> Simon
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Simon,
>> >> >
>> >> > "Capable perfectionist" Hmmmm.
>> >> >
>> >> > Waaayyyy back when I was starting high school I built a couple of
>> >> > wagons
>> >> > - one was a low side open using Hornby Dublo wheels (a catalogue 
>> >> > part)
>> >> > My grandfather showed me how to cut out tinplate with a chisel and 
>> >> > how
>> >> > to punch holes using a nail and I made a balsa and card body. It was 
>> >> > so
>> >> > light it wouldn't stay on the track, and frankly it looked terrible!
>> >> > The
>> >> > second one used proprietry bogies and a card/balsa body with an old
>> >> > bolt
>> >> > glued inside. The only paint I had was an ancient tin of teak from
>> >> > Dad's
>> >> > shed. It really didn't look like 'red-oxide' in the least, but I was
>> >> > quite proud and it stayed on the track. Then there was an NZR Ec 
>> >> > Class
>> >> > Bo'Bo' built on an old Lone Star Treble-Oh chassis. It looked like 
>> >> > the
>> >> > prototype if you squinted at the right angle. ... Later I built a
>> >> > layered card passenger carriage using the bogies of the above goods
>> >> > wagon (HD) I still have that coach stashed away, mostly to keep 
>> >> > myself
>> >> > humble when I get too big-headed. The first (acceptable) loco I 
>> >> > built
>> >> > went through Mks 1 to 7 before I was satisfied. A few years later 
>> >> > DJH
>> >> > brought out the same model and then Roco brought it out to a 
>> >> > standard
>> >> > I'll never reach.
>> >> >
>> >> > Where is all this going?
>> >> > - I've never been satisfied long term with models I've bodged.
>> >> > - When I've failed I've tried again.
>> >> > - none of my 'perfect' models are anything like perfect, but only I
>> >> > know
>> >> > their faults.
>> >> > - Don't stop building a model because something isn't perfect, but 
>> >> > stop
>> >> > and start again if you know you can do it better.
>> >> > When you've made enough mistakes you learn what won't work and what
>> >> > isn't acceptable. Of course there's still more mistakes to be made, 
>> >> > but
>> >> > your chances of success get better.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Greg.P.
>> >>
>> >> True, but this is a legitimate bodge. Theres a number of captions in
>> >> reference books where they arent sure if a loco is lined or not cos 
>> >> the
>> >> lining is only visible in places as an outline.
>> >> Always intended to weather it - perhaps just make it a bit dirtier 
>> >> now.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Simon
>> >
>> >
>> > In that case, you want a non-glossy black, let down with a touch of
>> > white and a touch of red-oxide. The white _should_ make the black go
>> > matt.
>> > The "rust" of the red oxide should be greater lower down, almost 50% on
>> > the underframe and minimal near the top.
>> > Use more white on footplates and top surfaces.
>> > Overhead? Add some light green to simulate copper oxide near the top.
>> > You need to _spray_ the weathering on. One of those cheap and nasty 
>> > $15-
>> > airbrushes (UKP5-?) you find in hardware shops that think they have an
>> > art department will do. A car spare tyre pumped up to 30-50lb/sq.in 
>> > will
>> > be adequate for the job. Spray on the lightest coat of your _thinned_
>> > Humbrol that you can - check it in sunshine (I guess that would be
>> > daylight in England ;-) and then add some more. Stop before you overdo
>> > it! Stop when it's no longer fun.
>> > Look at lots of colour photos to see where the muck should be.
>> > If people refuse to touch your loco or check their fingers after
>> > touching it, then you've got it nicely grubby!
>> >
>> > Greg.P.
>>
>> Was just about to remove the worst bits of lining (50%) and start again 
>> and
>> you give an full answer. Thank you for that. May just replace the extreme
>> bad bits.
>> Any hints if dont want to use an airbrush - managed ok with gunmetal by
>> waiting a short while then reburush, wait another short while and rebrush
>> till evenly spread.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Simon
>
> Hi Simon,
>
> I'm a professional artist these days and know how to make any pattern
> you want with a paintbrush and paint, ink ... :-)
> To get the weathered finish you want with no brush marks would require
> good quality fine ground pigment paint (a new tin of Humbrol _might_
> just do) strained through the finest strainer you can get (very fine
> nylon stockings)
> thinned about 3:1 and applied with a _really_ good quality brush in a
> reverse stippling manner. That paint brush is going to cost you more
> than the airbrush I suggested and won't do as good a job. Anything less
> is going to look like tar painted on with a six inch paintbrush. (ie
> BAD)
> Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - If you
> never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
> cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar will
> do the job ;-)
>
> Greg.P.

We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet standard - 
as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout standard. 
Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered acceptable.
Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have trundling round. 
Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.

OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?

Cheers,
Simon

simon wrote:
> 
> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> news:4846F670.9DDB8376@ihug.co.nz...
> > simon wrote:
> >>
> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> news:4845D935.714E11C4@ihug.co.nz...
> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> >> news:4845CDB0.A6F6CFE@ihug.co.nz...
> >> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:4845C32D.9436A406@ihug.co.nz...
> >> >> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using
> >> >> >> >> transfers
> >> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> >> black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928
> >> >> >> >> express
> >> >> >> >> passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which
> >> >> >> >> colour(s)
> >> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >> use
> >> >> >> >> for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
> >> >> >> >> Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> cheers,
> >> >> >> >> Simon
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > If this was a 'real friend' I'd suggest that he/she start again
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > get
> >> >> >> > the lining right.
> >> >> >> > Otherwise copious layers of tar should cover the lining but not
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > memory.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> >> > Greg.P.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Thank you kindly ....
> >> >> >> Yes but youre a capable perfectionist with years of experience. I
> >> >> >> just
> >> >> >> want
> >> >> >> something that looks ok from normal viewing distance.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> tar - how does that translate to Humbol colour sceme ?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> >> Simon
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hi Simon,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Capable perfectionist" Hmmmm.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Waaayyyy back when I was starting high school I built a couple of
> >> >> > wagons
> >> >> > - one was a low side open using Hornby Dublo wheels (a catalogue
> >> >> > part)
> >> >> > My grandfather showed me how to cut out tinplate with a chisel and
> >> >> > how
> >> >> > to punch holes using a nail and I made a balsa and card body. It was
> >> >> > so
> >> >> > light it wouldn't stay on the track, and frankly it looked terrible!
> >> >> > The
> >> >> > second one used proprietry bogies and a card/balsa body with an old
> >> >> > bolt
> >> >> > glued inside. The only paint I had was an ancient tin of teak from
> >> >> > Dad's
> >> >> > shed. It really didn't look like 'red-oxide' in the least, but I was
> >> >> > quite proud and it stayed on the track. Then there was an NZR Ec
> >> >> > Class
> >> >> > Bo'Bo' built on an old Lone Star Treble-Oh chassis. It looked like
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > prototype if you squinted at the right angle. ... Later I built a
> >> >> > layered card passenger carriage using the bogies of the above goods
> >> >> > wagon (HD) I still have that coach stashed away, mostly to keep
> >> >> > myself
> >> >> > humble when I get too big-headed. The first (acceptable) loco I
> >> >> > built
> >> >> > went through Mks 1 to 7 before I was satisfied. A few years later
> >> >> > DJH
> >> >> > brought out the same model and then Roco brought it out to a
> >> >> > standard
> >> >> > I'll never reach.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Where is all this going?
> >> >> > - I've never been satisfied long term with models I've bodged.
> >> >> > - When I've failed I've tried again.
> >> >> > - none of my 'perfect' models are anything like perfect, but only I
> >> >> > know
> >> >> > their faults.
> >> >> > - Don't stop building a model because something isn't perfect, but
> >> >> > stop
> >> >> > and start again if you know you can do it better.
> >> >> > When you've made enough mistakes you learn what won't work and what
> >> >> > isn't acceptable. Of course there's still more mistakes to be made,
> >> >> > but
> >> >> > your chances of success get better.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> > Greg.P.
> >> >>
> >> >> True, but this is a legitimate bodge. Theres a number of captions in
> >> >> reference books where they arent sure if a loco is lined or not cos
> >> >> the
> >> >> lining is only visible in places as an outline.
> >> >> Always intended to weather it - perhaps just make it a bit dirtier
> >> >> now.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> Simon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > In that case, you want a non-glossy black, let down with a touch of
> >> > white and a touch of red-oxide. The white _should_ make the black go
> >> > matt.
> >> > The "rust" of the red oxide should be greater lower down, almost 50% on
> >> > the underframe and minimal near the top.
> >> > Use more white on footplates and top surfaces.
> >> > Overhead? Add some light green to simulate copper oxide near the top.
> >> > You need to _spray_ the weathering on. One of those cheap and nasty
> >> > $15-
> >> > airbrushes (UKP5-?) you find in hardware shops that think they have an
> >> > art department will do. A car spare tyre pumped up to 30-50lb/sq.in
> >> > will
> >> > be adequate for the job. Spray on the lightest coat of your _thinned_
> >> > Humbrol that you can - check it in sunshine (I guess that would be
> >> > daylight in England ;-) and then add some more. Stop before you overdo
> >> > it! Stop when it's no longer fun.
> >> > Look at lots of colour photos to see where the muck should be.
> >> > If people refuse to touch your loco or check their fingers after
> >> > touching it, then you've got it nicely grubby!
> >> >
> >> > Greg.P.
> >>
> >> Was just about to remove the worst bits of lining (50%) and start again
> >> and
> >> you give an full answer. Thank you for that. May just replace the extreme
> >> bad bits.
> >> Any hints if dont want to use an airbrush - managed ok with gunmetal by
> >> waiting a short while then reburush, wait another short while and rebrush
> >> till evenly spread.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Simon
> >
> > Hi Simon,
> >
> > I'm a professional artist these days and know how to make any pattern
> > you want with a paintbrush and paint, ink ... :-)
> > To get the weathered finish you want with no brush marks would require
> > good quality fine ground pigment paint (a new tin of Humbrol _might_
> > just do) strained through the finest strainer you can get (very fine
> > nylon stockings)
> > thinned about 3:1 and applied with a _really_ good quality brush in a
> > reverse stippling manner. That paint brush is going to cost you more
> > than the airbrush I suggested and won't do as good a job. Anything less
> > is going to look like tar painted on with a six inch paintbrush. (ie
> > BAD)
> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - If you
> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar will
> > do the job ;-)
> >
> > Greg.P.
> 
> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet standard -
> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout standard.
> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered acceptable.
> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have trundling round.
> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
> 
> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?

Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders were
mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were in the
spot most difficult to access for maintainance.

Regards,
Greg.P.

simon wrote:
> 
> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> news:4846F670.9DDB8376@ihug.co.nz...
> > simon wrote:
> >>
> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> news:4845D935.714E11C4@ihug.co.nz...
> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> >> news:4845CDB0.A6F6CFE@ihug.co.nz...
> >> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:4845C32D.9436A406@ihug.co.nz...
> >> >> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Say you had a 'friend' who made a pigs ear of lining using
> >> >> >> >> transfers
> >> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> >> black/yellow on base colour of crimson lake - ie LMS post 1928
> >> >> >> >> express
> >> >> >> >> passenger livery. What advice would you give as to which
> >> >> >> >> colour(s)
> >> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >> use
> >> >> >> >> for heavy weathering to hide the error of their ways.
> >> >> >> >> Like you can use lots of gunmetal on black then ......
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> cheers,
> >> >> >> >> Simon
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > If this was a 'real friend' I'd suggest that he/she start again
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > get
> >> >> >> > the lining right.
> >> >> >> > Otherwise copious layers of tar should cover the lining but not
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > memory.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> >> > Greg.P.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Thank you kindly ....
> >> >> >> Yes but youre a capable perfectionist with years of experience. I
> >> >> >> just
> >> >> >> want
> >> >> >> something that looks ok from normal viewing distance.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> tar - how does that translate to Humbol colour sceme ?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> >> Simon
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hi Simon,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Capable perfectionist" Hmmmm.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Waaayyyy back when I was starting high school I built a couple of
> >> >> > wagons
> >> >> > - one was a low side open using Hornby Dublo wheels (a catalogue
> >> >> > part)
> >> >> > My grandfather showed me how to cut out tinplate with a chisel and
> >> >> > how
> >> >> > to punch holes using a nail and I made a balsa and card body. It was
> >> >> > so
> >> >> > light it wouldn't stay on the track, and frankly it looked terrible!
> >> >> > The
> >> >> > second one used proprietry bogies and a card/balsa body with an old
> >> >> > bolt
> >> >> > glued inside. The only paint I had was an ancient tin of teak from
> >> >> > Dad's
> >> >> > shed. It really didn't look like 'red-oxide' in the least, but I was
> >> >> > quite proud and it stayed on the track. Then there was an NZR Ec
> >> >> > Class
> >> >> > Bo'Bo' built on an old Lone Star Treble-Oh chassis. It looked like
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > prototype if you squinted at the right angle. ... Later I built a
> >> >> > layered card passenger carriage using the bogies of the above goods
> >> >> > wagon (HD) I still have that coach stashed away, mostly to keep
> >> >> > myself
> >> >> > humble when I get too big-headed. The first (acceptable) loco I
> >> >> > built
> >> >> > went through Mks 1 to 7 before I was satisfied. A few years later
> >> >> > DJH
> >> >> > brought out the same model and then Roco brought it out to a
> >> >> > standard
> >> >> > I'll never reach.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Where is all this going?
> >> >> > - I've never been satisfied long term with models I've bodged.
> >> >> > - When I've failed I've tried again.
> >> >> > - none of my 'perfect' models are anything like perfect, but only I
> >> >> > know
> >> >> > their faults.
> >> >> > - Don't stop building a model because something isn't perfect, but
> >> >> > stop
> >> >> > and start again if you know you can do it better.
> >> >> > When you've made enough mistakes you learn what won't work and what
> >> >> > isn't acceptable. Of course there's still more mistakes to be made,
> >> >> > but
> >> >> > your chances of success get better.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> > Greg.P.
> >> >>
> >> >> True, but this is a legitimate bodge. Theres a number of captions in
> >> >> reference books where they arent sure if a loco is lined or not cos
> >> >> the
> >> >> lining is only visible in places as an outline.
> >> >> Always intended to weather it - perhaps just make it a bit dirtier
> >> >> now.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> Simon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > In that case, you want a non-glossy black, let down with a touch of
> >> > white and a touch of red-oxide. The white _should_ make the black go
> >> > matt.
> >> > The "rust" of the red oxide should be greater lower down, almost 50% on
> >> > the underframe and minimal near the top.
> >> > Use more white on footplates and top surfaces.
> >> > Overhead? Add some light green to simulate copper oxide near the top.
> >> > You need to _spray_ the weathering on. One of those cheap and nasty
> >> > $15-
> >> > airbrushes (UKP5-?) you find in hardware shops that think they have an
> >> > art department will do. A car spare tyre pumped up to 30-50lb/sq.in
> >> > will
> >> > be adequate for the job. Spray on the lightest coat of your _thinned_
> >> > Humbrol that you can - check it in sunshine (I guess that would be
> >> > daylight in England ;-) and then add some more. Stop before you overdo
> >> > it! Stop when it's no longer fun.
> >> > Look at lots of colour photos to see where the muck should be.
> >> > If people refuse to touch your loco or check their fingers after
> >> > touching it, then you've got it nicely grubby!
> >> >
> >> > Greg.P.
> >>
> >> Was just about to remove the worst bits of lining (50%) and start again
> >> and
> >> you give an full answer. Thank you for that. May just replace the extreme
> >> bad bits.
> >> Any hints if dont want to use an airbrush - managed ok with gunmetal by
> >> waiting a short while then reburush, wait another short while and rebrush
> >> till evenly spread.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Simon
> >
> > Hi Simon,
> >
> > I'm a professional artist these days and know how to make any pattern
> > you want with a paintbrush and paint, ink ... :-)
> > To get the weathered finish you want with no brush marks would require
> > good quality fine ground pigment paint (a new tin of Humbrol _might_
> > just do) strained through the finest strainer you can get (very fine
> > nylon stockings)
> > thinned about 3:1 and applied with a _really_ good quality brush in a
> > reverse stippling manner. That paint brush is going to cost you more
> > than the airbrush I suggested and won't do as good a job. Anything less
> > is going to look like tar painted on with a six inch paintbrush. (ie
> > BAD)
> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - If you
> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar will
> > do the job ;-)
> >
> > Greg.P.
> 
> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet standard -
> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout standard.
> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered acceptable.
> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have trundling round.
> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.


That's fine for the loco's paint, but hopefully the weathering won't be
as thick!
:-)

"Greg Procter"  wrote in message 
news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
> simon wrote:
>>
>> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - If 
>> > you
>> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
>> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar will
>> > do the job ;-)
>> >
>> > Greg.P.
>>
>> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet 
>> standard -
>> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout 
>> standard.
>> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered 
>> acceptable.
>> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have trundling 
>> round.
>> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
>>
>> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?
>
> Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders were
> mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were in the
> spot most difficult to access for maintainance.
>
> Regards,
> Greg.P.

Should hope so, dont want nasty bits spoiling the outline ! What shape/size 
are they ?

Cheers,
Simon

simon wrote:
> 
> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
> > simon wrote:
> >>
> >> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - If
> >> > you
> >> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
> >> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar will
> >> > do the job ;-)
> >> >
> >> > Greg.P.
> >>
> >> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet
> >> standard -
> >> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout
> >> standard.
> >> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered
> >> acceptable.
> >> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have trundling
> >> round.
> >> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
> >>
> >> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?
> >
> > Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders were
> > mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were in the
> > spot most difficult to access for maintainance.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg.P.
> 
> Should hope so, dont want nasty bits spoiling the outline ! 


There was the advantage of greatly reduced rocking couples with inside
cylinders as compared to equivalent outside cylinders.

"...spoiling the outline"??? I bet you're one of those philistines who
thinks locomotives should be rectangular boxes filled with nasty Dieasal
stuff and distinguished only by hastly repainted numbers with a computer
check code appended(?)


> What shape/size
> are they ?


Well, they were (generally) cylindrical in shape and often about the
right size for their intended tasks.
Of course, a _proper_ steam loco should have full valve gear with lots
of extra rods and levers that only the designer understood while he was
drawing them on his plan.
<http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klose/klosetothe.htm>

Regards,
Greg.P.

"Greg Procter"  wrote in message 
news:4848532C.59B000A9@ihug.co.nz...
> simon wrote:
>>
>> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
>> > simon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - If
>> >> > you
>> >> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
>> >> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar 
>> >> > will
>> >> > do the job ;-)
>> >> >
>> >> > Greg.P.
>> >>
>> >> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet
>> >> standard -
>> >> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout
>> >> standard.
>> >> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered
>> >> acceptable.
>> >> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have trundling
>> >> round.
>> >> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
>> >>
>> >> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?
>> >
>> > Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders were
>> > mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were in 
>> > the
>> > spot most difficult to access for maintainance.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Greg.P.
>>
>> Should hope so, dont want nasty bits spoiling the outline !
>
>
> There was the advantage of greatly reduced rocking couples with inside
> cylinders as compared to equivalent outside cylinders.
>
> "...spoiling the outline"??? I bet you're one of those philistines who
> thinks locomotives should be rectangular boxes filled with nasty Dieasal
> stuff and distinguished only by hastly repainted numbers with a computer
> check code appended(?)
>

Whos feeling a bit snappy this morning then. there were very few of that 
type of box on the midland, LNWR or LMS as far as I know.
Its the graceful curves of which I am a fan.


>
>> What shape/size
>> are they ?
>
>
> Well, they were (generally) cylindrical in shape and often about the
> right size for their intended tasks.
> Of course, a _proper_ steam loco should have full valve gear with lots
> of extra rods and levers that only the designer understood while he was
> drawing them on his plan.
> <http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klose/klosetothe.htm>
>
> Regards,
> Greg.P.

Rumbled ?

Cheers,
Simon

simon wrote:
> 
> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> news:4848532C.59B000A9@ihug.co.nz...
> > simon wrote:
> >>
> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - If
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
> >> >> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar
> >> >> > will
> >> >> > do the job ;-)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Greg.P.
> >> >>
> >> >> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet
> >> >> standard -
> >> >> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout
> >> >> standard.
> >> >> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered
> >> >> acceptable.
> >> >> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have trundling
> >> >> round.
> >> >> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
> >> >>
> >> >> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?
> >> >
> >> > Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders were
> >> > mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were in
> >> > the
> >> > spot most difficult to access for maintainance.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Greg.P.
> >>
> >> Should hope so, dont want nasty bits spoiling the outline !
> >
> >
> > There was the advantage of greatly reduced rocking couples with inside
> > cylinders as compared to equivalent outside cylinders.
> >
> > "...spoiling the outline"??? I bet you're one of those philistines who
> > thinks locomotives should be rectangular boxes filled with nasty Dieasal
> > stuff and distinguished only by hastly repainted numbers with a computer
> > check code appended(?)
> >
> 
> Whos feeling a bit snappy this morning then. there were very few of that
> type of box on the midland, LNWR or LMS as far as I know.
> Its the graceful curves of which I am a fan.
> 
> >
> >> What shape/size
> >> are they ?
> >
> >
> > Well, they were (generally) cylindrical in shape and often about the
> > right size for their intended tasks.
> > Of course, a _proper_ steam loco should have full valve gear with lots
> > of extra rods and levers that only the designer understood while he was
> > drawing them on his plan.
> > <http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klose/klosetothe.htm>
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg.P.
> 
> Rumbled ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Me "snappy"???
Most of my railway stuff has been in storage since November 2006 and the
new house was to be finished in July 2007 ... before Christmas 2007 ...
March, 15th April ... 17th June ... now the 36th June. Sigh!!!

I've built about 20x 1:24th scale coaches and wagons for the garden
railway meanwhile, but I don't dare lay any outdoor track as it will
probably be in the way of a bulldozer. I can't get stuck into a loco
because my workshop is the room occupied by all the cartons ...
I can't get on with my L&YR Highflyer nor my KWStsE Klose 0-10-0.
If I get one more delay I'm gonna bite the leg off the next tradesman!!!
"Snappy", well, perhaps just a little.

Greg.P.

On Jun 6, 12:23 am, "simon"  wrote:
> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>
> news:4848532C.59B000A9@ihug.co.nz...
>
>
>
> > simon wrote:
>
> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >>news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
> >> > simon wrote:
>
> >> >> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - If
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
> >> >> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar
> >> >> > will
> >> >> > do the job ;-)
>
> >> >> > Greg.P.
>
> >> >> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet
> >> >> standard -
> >> >> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout
> >> >> standard.
> >> >> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered
> >> >> acceptable.
> >> >> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have trundling
> >> >> round.
> >> >> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
>
> >> >> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?
>
> >> > Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders were
> >> > mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were in
> >> > the
> >> > spot most difficult to access for maintainance.
>
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Greg.P.
>
> >> Should hope so, dont want nasty bits spoiling the outline !
>
> > There was the advantage of greatly reduced rocking couples with inside
> > cylinders as compared to equivalent outside cylinders.
>
> > "...spoiling the outline"??? I bet you're one of those philistines who
> > thinks locomotives should be rectangular boxes filled with nasty Dieasal
> > stuff and distinguished only by hastly repainted numbers with a computer
> > check code appended(?)
>
> Whos feeling a bit snappy this morning then. there were very few of that
> type of box on the midland, LNWR or LMS as far as I know.
> Its the graceful curves of which I am a fan.
>
>
>
> >> What shape/size
> >> are they ?
>
> > Well, they were (generally) cylindrical in shape and often about the
> > right size for their intended tasks.
> > Of course, a _proper_ steam loco should have full valve gear with lots
> > of extra rods and levers that only the designer understood while he was
> > drawing them on his plan.
> > <http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klose/klosetothe.htm>
>
> > Regards,
> > Greg.P.
>
> Rumbled ?
>
> Cheers,
> Simon

To be fair the LMS had lots of Diesels pre- WWII . They were mostly
Ruston powered shunters which became the 08's eventually and didn't
10000 & 10001 carry the LMS insignia?   Not to mention all those
Watford trains which started out  as LTR and somehow changed ownership
out in Bucks?

Ha!

In message 
          Sailor  wrote:

> On Jun 6, 12:23 am, "simon"  wrote:
> > "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >
> > news:4848532C.59B000A9@ihug.co.nz...
> >
> >
> >
> > > simon wrote:
> >
> > >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> > >>news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
> > >> > simon wrote:
> >
> > >> >> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - If
> > >> >> > you
> > >> >> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
> > >> >> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar
> > >> >> > will
> > >> >> > do the job ;-)
> >
> > >> >> > Greg.P.
> >
> > >> >> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet
> > >> >> standard -
> > >> >> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout
> > >> >> standard.
> > >> >> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered
> > >> >> acceptable.
> > >> >> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have trundling
> > >> >> round.
> > >> >> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
> >
> > >> >> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?
> >
> > >> > Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders were
> > >> > mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were in
> > >> > the
> > >> > spot most difficult to access for maintainance.
> >
> > >> > Regards,
> > >> > Greg.P.
> >
> > >> Should hope so, dont want nasty bits spoiling the outline !
> >
> > > There was the advantage of greatly reduced rocking couples with inside
> > > cylinders as compared to equivalent outside cylinders.
> >
> > > "...spoiling the outline"??? I bet you're one of those philistines who
> > > thinks locomotives should be rectangular boxes filled with nasty Dieasal
> > > stuff and distinguished only by hastly repainted numbers with a computer
> > > check code appended(?)
> >
> > Whos feeling a bit snappy this morning then. there were very few of that
> > type of box on the midland, LNWR or LMS as far as I know.
> > Its the graceful curves of which I am a fan.
> >
> >
> >
> > >> What shape/size
> > >> are they ?
> >
> > > Well, they were (generally) cylindrical in shape and often about the
> > > right size for their intended tasks.
> > > Of course, a _proper_ steam loco should have full valve gear with lots
> > > of extra rods and levers that only the designer understood while he was
> > > drawing them on his plan.
> > > <http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klose/klosetothe.htm>
> >
> > > Regards,
> > > Greg.P.
> >
> > Rumbled ?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Simon
> 
> To be fair the LMS had lots of Diesels pre- WWII . They were mostly
> Ruston powered shunters which became the 08's eventually and didn't
> 10000 & 10001 carry the LMS insignia?   Not to mention all those
> Watford trains which started out  as LTR and somehow changed ownership
> out in Bucks?
> 
> Ha!

Indeed, the LMS were arguably the first to see the light and look
for non-electric alternatives to those dirty, inefficient,
kettles ;-)

Cheers
Richard (Tin hat donned...)

-- 
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk       sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
              I have become... comfortably numb

"Greg Procter"  wrote in message 
news:48488631.93156726@ihug.co.nz...
> simon wrote:
>>
>> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> news:4848532C.59B000A9@ihug.co.nz...
>> > simon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> >> news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
>> >> > simon wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - 
>> >> >> > If
>> >> >> > you
>> >> >> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
>> >> >> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar
>> >> >> > will
>> >> >> > do the job ;-)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Greg.P.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet
>> >> >> standard -
>> >> >> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout
>> >> >> standard.
>> >> >> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered
>> >> >> acceptable.
>> >> >> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have 
>> >> >> trundling
>> >> >> round.
>> >> >> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders 
>> >> > were
>> >> > mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were in
>> >> > the
>> >> > spot most difficult to access for maintainance.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Greg.P.
>> >>
>> >> Should hope so, dont want nasty bits spoiling the outline !
>> >
>> >
>> > There was the advantage of greatly reduced rocking couples with inside
>> > cylinders as compared to equivalent outside cylinders.
>> >
>> > "...spoiling the outline"??? I bet you're one of those philistines who
>> > thinks locomotives should be rectangular boxes filled with nasty 
>> > Dieasal
>> > stuff and distinguished only by hastly repainted numbers with a 
>> > computer
>> > check code appended(?)
>> >
>>
>> Whos feeling a bit snappy this morning then. there were very few of that
>> type of box on the midland, LNWR or LMS as far as I know.
>> Its the graceful curves of which I am a fan.
>>
>> >
>> >> What shape/size
>> >> are they ?
>> >
>> >
>> > Well, they were (generally) cylindrical in shape and often about the
>> > right size for their intended tasks.
>> > Of course, a _proper_ steam loco should have full valve gear with lots
>> > of extra rods and levers that only the designer understood while he was
>> > drawing them on his plan.
>> > <http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klose/klosetothe.htm>
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Greg.P.
>>
>> Rumbled ?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Simon
>
>
> Me "snappy"???
> Most of my railway stuff has been in storage since November 2006 and the
> new house was to be finished in July 2007 ... before Christmas 2007 ...
> March, 15th April ... 17th June ... now the 36th June. Sigh!!!
>
> I've built about 20x 1:24th scale coaches and wagons for the garden
> railway meanwhile, but I don't dare lay any outdoor track as it will
> probably be in the way of a bulldozer. I can't get stuck into a loco
> because my workshop is the room occupied by all the cartons ...
> I can't get on with my L&YR Highflyer nor my KWStsE Klose 0-10-0.
> If I get one more delay I'm gonna bite the leg off the next tradesman!!!
> "Snappy", well, perhaps just a little.
>
> Greg.P.

Might manage some sympathy if there was ever a chance of getting a 
workshop - some of us make do with a desk !
Garden railway as well....
No chance then.
Cheers,
Simon

"Sailor"  wrote in message 
news:e85b109a-6f80-4c02-8eda-686c8d804ba5@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 6, 12:23 am, "simon"  wrote:
>> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:4848532C.59B000A9@ihug.co.nz...
>>
>>
>>
>> > simon wrote:
>>
>> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> >>news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
>> >> > simon wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is - 
>> >> >> > If
>> >> >> > you
>> >> >> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
>> >> >> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar
>> >> >> > will
>> >> >> > do the job ;-)
>>
>> >> >> > Greg.P.
>>
>> >> >> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet
>> >> >> standard -
>> >> >> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout
>> >> >> standard.
>> >> >> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered
>> >> >> acceptable.
>> >> >> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have 
>> >> >> trundling
>> >> >> round.
>> >> >> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
>>
>> >> >> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?
>>
>> >> > Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders 
>> >> > were
>> >> > mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were in
>> >> > the
>> >> > spot most difficult to access for maintainance.
>>
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Greg.P.
>>
>> >> Should hope so, dont want nasty bits spoiling the outline !
>>
>> > There was the advantage of greatly reduced rocking couples with inside
>> > cylinders as compared to equivalent outside cylinders.
>>
>> > "...spoiling the outline"??? I bet you're one of those philistines who
>> > thinks locomotives should be rectangular boxes filled with nasty 
>> > Dieasal
>> > stuff and distinguished only by hastly repainted numbers with a 
>> > computer
>> > check code appended(?)
>>
>> Whos feeling a bit snappy this morning then. there were very few of that
>> type of box on the midland, LNWR or LMS as far as I know.
>> Its the graceful curves of which I am a fan.
>>
>>
>>
>> >> What shape/size
>> >> are they ?
>>
>> > Well, they were (generally) cylindrical in shape and often about the
>> > right size for their intended tasks.
>> > Of course, a _proper_ steam loco should have full valve gear with lots
>> > of extra rods and levers that only the designer understood while he was
>> > drawing them on his plan.
>> > <http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klose/klosetothe.htm>
>>
>> > Regards,
>> > Greg.P.
>>
>> Rumbled ?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Simon
>
> To be fair the LMS had lots of Diesels pre- WWII . They were mostly
> Ruston powered shunters which became the 08's eventually and didn't
> 10000 & 10001 carry the LMS insignia?   Not to mention all those
> Watford trains which started out  as LTR and somehow changed ownership
> out in Bucks?
>
> Ha!

LMS 10000 was finished with 3 weeks to spare. But even when the outside 
livery was changed presume there was still letters lms cast in aluminium 
floorplates of engineroom compartment.
Very nice in black but still a diesel.

Cheers,
Simon

"beamendsltd"  wrote in message 
news:548d24ab4f%beamendsltd@btconnect.com...
> In message 
> 
>          Sailor  wrote:
>
>> On Jun 6, 12:23 am, "simon"  wrote:
>> > "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> >
>> > news:4848532C.59B000A9@ihug.co.nz...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > simon wrote:
>> >
>> > >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> > >>news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
>> > >> > simon wrote:
>> >
>> > >> >> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight 
>> > >> >> > is - If
>> > >> >> > you
>> > >> >> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
>> > >> >> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed 
>> > >> >> > tar
>> > >> >> > will
>> > >> >> > do the job ;-)
>> >
>> > >> >> > Greg.P.
>> >
>> > >> >> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet
>> > >> >> standard -
>> > >> >> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres 
>> > >> >> layout
>> > >> >> standard.
>> > >> >> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered
>> > >> >> acceptable.
>> > >> >> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have 
>> > >> >> trundling
>> > >> >> round.
>> > >> >> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
>> >
>> > >> >> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?
>> >
>> > >> > Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders 
>> > >> > were
>> > >> > mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were 
>> > >> > in
>> > >> > the
>> > >> > spot most difficult to access for maintainance.
>> >
>> > >> > Regards,
>> > >> > Greg.P.
>> >
>> > >> Should hope so, dont want nasty bits spoiling the outline !
>> >
>> > > There was the advantage of greatly reduced rocking couples with 
>> > > inside
>> > > cylinders as compared to equivalent outside cylinders.
>> >
>> > > "...spoiling the outline"??? I bet you're one of those philistines 
>> > > who
>> > > thinks locomotives should be rectangular boxes filled with nasty 
>> > > Dieasal
>> > > stuff and distinguished only by hastly repainted numbers with a 
>> > > computer
>> > > check code appended(?)
>> >
>> > Whos feeling a bit snappy this morning then. there were very few of 
>> > that
>> > type of box on the midland, LNWR or LMS as far as I know.
>> > Its the graceful curves of which I am a fan.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >> What shape/size
>> > >> are they ?
>> >
>> > > Well, they were (generally) cylindrical in shape and often about the
>> > > right size for their intended tasks.
>> > > Of course, a _proper_ steam loco should have full valve gear with 
>> > > lots
>> > > of extra rods and levers that only the designer understood while he 
>> > > was
>> > > drawing them on his plan.
>> > > <http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klose/klosetothe.htm>
>> >
>> > > Regards,
>> > > Greg.P.
>> >
>> > Rumbled ?
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Simon
>>
>> To be fair the LMS had lots of Diesels pre- WWII . They were mostly
>> Ruston powered shunters which became the 08's eventually and didn't
>> 10000 & 10001 carry the LMS insignia?   Not to mention all those
>> Watford trains which started out  as LTR and somehow changed ownership
>> out in Bucks?
>>
>> Ha!
>
> Indeed, the LMS were arguably the first to see the light and look
> for non-electric alternatives to those dirty, inefficient,
> kettles ;-)
>
> Cheers
> Richard (Tin hat donned...)
>
> -- 
> www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk       sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
>              I have become... comfortably numb

Well yes but that doesnt mean they liked them and the real world is rarely 
wellcome in my modelling thank you.
Finally were they dirty for most of the time that steam was prevalent, were 
diesels ever cleaner during their time ?
Cheers,
Simon

simon wrote:
> 
> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> news:48488631.93156726@ihug.co.nz...
> > simon wrote:
> >>
> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> news:4848532C.59B000A9@ihug.co.nz...
> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> >> news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
> >> >> > simon wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight is -
> >> >> >> > If
> >> >> >> > you
> >> >> >> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
> >> >> >> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed tar
> >> >> >> > will
> >> >> >> > do the job ;-)
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Greg.P.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet
> >> >> >> standard -
> >> >> >> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres layout
> >> >> >> standard.
> >> >> >> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered
> >> >> >> acceptable.
> >> >> >> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have
> >> >> >> trundling
> >> >> >> round.
> >> >> >> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders
> >> >> > were
> >> >> > mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were in
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > spot most difficult to access for maintainance.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> > Greg.P.
> >> >>
> >> >> Should hope so, dont want nasty bits spoiling the outline !
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > There was the advantage of greatly reduced rocking couples with inside
> >> > cylinders as compared to equivalent outside cylinders.
> >> >
> >> > "...spoiling the outline"??? I bet you're one of those philistines who
> >> > thinks locomotives should be rectangular boxes filled with nasty
> >> > Dieasal
> >> > stuff and distinguished only by hastly repainted numbers with a
> >> > computer
> >> > check code appended(?)
> >> >
> >>
> >> Whos feeling a bit snappy this morning then. there were very few of that
> >> type of box on the midland, LNWR or LMS as far as I know.
> >> Its the graceful curves of which I am a fan.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> What shape/size
> >> >> are they ?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Well, they were (generally) cylindrical in shape and often about the
> >> > right size for their intended tasks.
> >> > Of course, a _proper_ steam loco should have full valve gear with lots
> >> > of extra rods and levers that only the designer understood while he was
> >> > drawing them on his plan.
> >> > <http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klose/klosetothe.htm>
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Greg.P.
> >>
> >> Rumbled ?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Simon
> >
> >
> > Me "snappy"???
> > Most of my railway stuff has been in storage since November 2006 and the
> > new house was to be finished in July 2007 ... before Christmas 2007 ...
> > March, 15th April ... 17th June ... now the 36th June. Sigh!!!
> >
> > I've built about 20x 1:24th scale coaches and wagons for the garden
> > railway meanwhile, but I don't dare lay any outdoor track as it will
> > probably be in the way of a bulldozer. I can't get stuck into a loco
> > because my workshop is the room occupied by all the cartons ...
> > I can't get on with my L&YR Highflyer nor my KWStsE Klose 0-10-0.
> > If I get one more delay I'm gonna bite the leg off the next tradesman!!!
> > "Snappy", well, perhaps just a little.
> >
> > Greg.P.
> 
> Might manage some sympathy if there was ever a chance of getting a
> workshop - some of us make do with a desk !
> Garden railway as well....
> No chance then.
> Cheers,
> Simon



Hey, I'm so old I've _earned_ a workshop! There were several decades
when I didn't even have a desk.
It's only a little garden (90 x 129) and I have to put up with a 30m
commute to be able to have that.

You're a tough audience - should I make it a musical and sing the tragic
bits?

In message 
          "simon"  wrote:

> 
> "beamendsltd"  wrote in message 
> news:548d24ab4f%beamendsltd@btconnect.com...
> > In message 
> > 
> >          Sailor  wrote:
> >
> >> On Jun 6, 12:23 am, "simon"  wrote:
> >> > "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> >
> >> > news:4848532C.59B000A9@ihug.co.nz...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > simon wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
> >> > >>news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
> >> > >> > simon wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >> >> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight 
> >> > >> >> > is - If
> >> > >> >> > you
> >> > >> >> > never noticed that older British steam locos don't have outside
> >> > >> >> > cylinders then yer Dad's 6" linseed brush and a tin of warmed 
> >> > >> >> > tar
> >> > >> >> > will
> >> > >> >> > do the job ;-)
> >> >
> >> > >> >> > Greg.P.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> We've had a chat here and come to the conclusion theres cabinet
> >> > >> >> standard -
> >> > >> >> as provided by Hornby and (sometimes) Bachmann. Then theres 
> >> > >> >> layout
> >> > >> >> standard.
> >> > >> >> Brushing just reaches the local layout standard so is considered
> >> > >> >> acceptable.
> >> > >> >> Was looking at an old Hornby Compound that am happy to have 
> >> > >> >> trundling
> >> > >> >> round.
> >> > >> >> Whilst the lining is not as bad as mine it is a bit rough.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> OK, where would I look for a cylinder ?
> >> >
> >> > >> > Well, for the first hundred years after the Rocket, the cylinders 
> >> > >> > were
> >> > >> > mostly put between the frames under the smoke box where they were 
> >> > >> > in
> >> > >> > the
> >> > >> > spot most difficult to access for maintainance.
> >> >
> >> > >> > Regards,
> >> > >> > Greg.P.
> >> >
> >> > >> Should hope so, dont want nasty bits spoiling the outline !
> >> >
> >> > > There was the advantage of greatly reduced rocking couples with 
> >> > > inside
> >> > > cylinders as compared to equivalent outside cylinders.
> >> >
> >> > > "...spoiling the outline"??? I bet you're one of those philistines 
> >> > > who
> >> > > thinks locomotives should be rectangular boxes filled with nasty 
> >> > > Dieasal
> >> > > stuff and distinguished only by hastly repainted numbers with a 
> >> > > computer
> >> > > check code appended(?)
> >> >
> >> > Whos feeling a bit snappy this morning then. there were very few of 
> >> > that
> >> > type of box on the midland, LNWR or LMS as far as I know.
> >> > Its the graceful curves of which I am a fan.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >> What shape/size
> >> > >> are they ?
> >> >
> >> > > Well, they were (generally) cylindrical in shape and often about the
> >> > > right size for their intended tasks.
> >> > > Of course, a _proper_ steam loco should have full valve gear with 
> >> > > lots
> >> > > of extra rods and levers that only the designer understood while he 
> >> > > was
> >> > > drawing them on his plan.
> >> > > <http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klose/klosetothe.htm>
> >> >
> >> > > Regards,
> >> > > Greg.P.
> >> >
> >> > Rumbled ?
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Simon
> >>
> >> To be fair the LMS had lots of Diesels pre- WWII . They were mostly
> >> Ruston powered shunters which became the 08's eventually and didn't
> >> 10000 & 10001 carry the LMS insignia?   Not to mention all those
> >> Watford trains which started out  as LTR and somehow changed ownership
> >> out in Bucks?
> >>
> >> Ha!
> >
> > Indeed, the LMS were arguably the first to see the light and look
> > for non-electric alternatives to those dirty, inefficient,
> > kettles ;-)
> >
> > Cheers
> > Richard (Tin hat donned...)
> >
> > -- 
> > www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk       sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
> >              I have become... comfortably numb
> 
> Well yes but that doesnt mean they liked them and the real world is rarely 
> wellcome in my modelling thank you.
> Finally were they dirty for most of the time that steam was prevalent, were 
> diesels ever cleaner during their time ?

Not on the outside ;-) But to work with..... I never worked with a 
driver who would swap a steam for diesel - even for a brief nostalgia 
trip in many cases........ 

> Cheers,
> Simon

Cheers
Richard

P.S. I'm not anti steam, but the "romance of steam" was an expression
not understood by the drivers I worked with - usually attracting comments
like "try running tender first from Savernake in the middle of winter"
etc.

> 
> 
> 

-- 
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk       sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
              I have become... comfortably numb

"Greg Procter"  wrote in message 
news:484A1C4F.16A04489@ihug.co.nz...
> simon wrote:
>>
>> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> news:48488631.93156726@ihug.co.nz...
>> > simon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> >> news:4848532C.59B000A9@ihug.co.nz...
>> >> > simon wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Greg Procter"  wrote in message
>> >> >> news:48473B4B.B1ABC29C@ihug.co.nz...
>> >> >> > simon wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > Of course, the result also depends on how good your eyesight 
>> >> >> >