Greetings All,
I have and use a Troyke 12 inch cross slide rotary table (R/T). Before
the advent of widespread CNC milling machines these tools were
practically indispensible to mold makers and machinists making complex
parts with radii blending into straight or curved surfaces. I also
have a 4 inch rotary table. This little table is perfect for some of
the small one off parts I make but if they get too complex I either
make 'em on the CNC or use the giant Troyke. Seeing the need for a
smaller cross slide R/T  I designed and have started making a cross
slide to fit the little 4 inch R/T. It's 6 inches square because I
wanted a little more room for clamps. It occurred to me last night
that this cross slide might also be something that model makers would
like. Unlike the small cross slides available that I have seen my
design is compact and low profile. It is also square with equal travel
in both axes. Pretty much a copy of the Troyke but on a much smaller
(and lighter!) scale. I'm posting this message in this newsgroup
because it seems to me that the UK has many more people interested in
model engineering than here in the US. And I'm wondering if there
would be much of a market in the UK for plans, a kit, or a finished
product. Any ideas anybody?
Cheers,
Eric R Snow

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
> Greetings All,
> I have and use a Troyke 12 inch cross slide rotary table (R/T). Before
> the advent of widespread CNC milling machines these tools were
> practically indispensible to mold makers and machinists making complex
> parts with radii blending into straight or curved surfaces. I also
> have a 4 inch rotary table. This little table is perfect for some of
> the small one off parts I make but if they get too complex I either
> make 'em on the CNC or use the giant Troyke. Seeing the need for a
> smaller cross slide R/T  I designed and have started making a cross
> slide to fit the little 4 inch R/T. It's 6 inches square because I
> wanted a little more room for clamps. It occurred to me last night
> that this cross slide might also be something that model makers would
> like. Unlike the small cross slides available that I have seen my
> design is compact and low profile. It is also square with equal travel
> in both axes. Pretty much a copy of the Troyke but on a much smaller
> (and lighter!) scale. I'm posting this message in this newsgroup
> because it seems to me that the UK has many more people interested in
> model engineering than here in the US. And I'm wondering if there
> would be much of a market in the UK for plans, a kit, or a finished
> product. Any ideas anybody?
> Cheers,
> Eric R Snow

  Have you seen the one that was published in Home Shop Machinist a year 
or two back?

  I was pretty interested in programming the CNC mill at work to cut a 
base for the R/T portion, and it turned into a nightmare really fast, 
when the dimensions started adding up wrong.

  The reply from the editor was not promising either.

  It still looked like a decent project, just not one that could be done 
relying upon the dimensions given as being accurate.

  The PITA part of the equation is that the really small mills don't 
have the headroom for the stacked pile o bits, while the ones that do 
have the room, want a little larger R/T and slides.

  Hell, I'd be pretty interested in a decent, low profile, smooth 
turning rotary table, suitable for my Centec or on the slide of my 
Myford. The small, nice ones that I have seen go by were huge money, and 
the small affordable ones were not worth buying for being so rough.

  Best of luck getting this going. An article written and submitted to 
one of the Model Engineering magazines would very likely rouse some 
interest in kits, if one were to go that way.

  Cheers
   Trevor Jones

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 05:10:07 GMT, Trevor Jones 
wrote:

>etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
>> Greetings All,
>> I have and use a Troyke 12 inch cross slide rotary table (R/T). Before
>> the advent of widespread CNC milling machines these tools were
>> practically indispensible to mold makers and machinists making complex
>> parts with radii blending into straight or curved surfaces. I also
>> have a 4 inch rotary table. This little table is perfect for some of
>> the small one off parts I make but if they get too complex I either
>> make 'em on the CNC or use the giant Troyke. Seeing the need for a
>> smaller cross slide R/T  I designed and have started making a cross
>> slide to fit the little 4 inch R/T. It's 6 inches square because I
>> wanted a little more room for clamps. It occurred to me last night
>> that this cross slide might also be something that model makers would
>> like. Unlike the small cross slides available that I have seen my
>> design is compact and low profile. It is also square with equal travel
>> in both axes. Pretty much a copy of the Troyke but on a much smaller
>> (and lighter!) scale. I'm posting this message in this newsgroup
>> because it seems to me that the UK has many more people interested in
>> model engineering than here in the US. And I'm wondering if there
>> would be much of a market in the UK for plans, a kit, or a finished
>> product. Any ideas anybody?
>> Cheers,
>> Eric R Snow
>
>  Have you seen the one that was published in Home Shop Machinist a year 
>or two back?
>
>  I was pretty interested in programming the CNC mill at work to cut a 
>base for the R/T portion, and it turned into a nightmare really fast, 
>when the dimensions started adding up wrong.
>
>  The reply from the editor was not promising either.
>
>  It still looked like a decent project, just not one that could be done 
>relying upon the dimensions given as being accurate.
>
>  The PITA part of the equation is that the really small mills don't 
>have the headroom for the stacked pile o bits, while the ones that do 
>have the room, want a little larger R/T and slides.
>
>  Hell, I'd be pretty interested in a decent, low profile, smooth 
>turning rotary table, suitable for my Centec or on the slide of my 
>Myford. The small, nice ones that I have seen go by were huge money, and 
>the small affordable ones were not worth buying for being so rough.
>
>  Best of luck getting this going. An article written and submitted to 
>one of the Model Engineering magazines would very likely rouse some 
>interest in kits, if one were to go that way.
>
>  Cheers
>   Trevor Jones
>
Greetings Trevor,
   Thanks for the reply. One of the reasons I'm making the cross slide
is because I want as low a profile as possible. With the small table
on a Bridgeport it doesn't make that much difference. But the low
profile also has the advantage of being more rigid. Nevertheless it
still will use up about 1 1/2 inches of spindle to table clearance. I
guess what I'll do is finish the thing and if I like it correct my
drawings and post them to the dropbox. If people like them I'll
consider writing an article.
   The cross slide would need to be adapted to an existing R/T. I have
seen plans for low profile ones. The little 4 incher I have is a
Taiwanese one that I bought considering it a semi-finished kit. It
wasn't real accurate when I got it but I went through the whole thing
and now it's a fine tool.
Cheers,
Eric

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 05:10:07 GMT, Trevor Jones 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
>>
>>>Greetings All,
>>>I have and use a Troyke 12 inch cross slide rotary table (R/T). Before
>>>the advent of widespread CNC milling machines these tools were
>>>practically indispensible to mold makers and machinists making complex
>>>parts with radii blending into straight or curved surfaces. I also
>>>have a 4 inch rotary table. This little table is perfect for some of
>>>the small one off parts I make but if they get too complex I either
>>>make 'em on the CNC or use the giant Troyke. Seeing the need for a
>>>smaller cross slide R/T  I designed and have started making a cross
>>>slide to fit the little 4 inch R/T. It's 6 inches square because I
>>>wanted a little more room for clamps. It occurred to me last night
>>>that this cross slide might also be something that model makers would
>>>like. Unlike the small cross slides available that I have seen my
>>>design is compact and low profile. It is also square with equal travel
>>>in both axes. Pretty much a copy of the Troyke but on a much smaller
>>>(and lighter!) scale. I'm posting this message in this newsgroup
>>>because it seems to me that the UK has many more people interested in
>>>model engineering than here in the US. And I'm wondering if there
>>>would be much of a market in the UK for plans, a kit, or a finished
>>>product. Any ideas anybody?
>>>Cheers,
>>>Eric R Snow
>>
>> Have you seen the one that was published in Home Shop Machinist a year 
>>or two back?
>>
>> I was pretty interested in programming the CNC mill at work to cut a 
>>base for the R/T portion, and it turned into a nightmare really fast, 
>>when the dimensions started adding up wrong.
>>
>> The reply from the editor was not promising either.
>>
>> It still looked like a decent project, just not one that could be done 
>>relying upon the dimensions given as being accurate.
>>
>> The PITA part of the equation is that the really small mills don't 
>>have the headroom for the stacked pile o bits, while the ones that do 
>>have the room, want a little larger R/T and slides.
>>
>> Hell, I'd be pretty interested in a decent, low profile, smooth 
>>turning rotary table, suitable for my Centec or on the slide of my 
>>Myford. The small, nice ones that I have seen go by were huge money, and 
>>the small affordable ones were not worth buying for being so rough.
>>
>> Best of luck getting this going. An article written and submitted to 
>>one of the Model Engineering magazines would very likely rouse some 
>>interest in kits, if one were to go that way.
>>
>> Cheers
>>  Trevor Jones
>>
> 
> Greetings Trevor,
>    Thanks for the reply. One of the reasons I'm making the cross slide
> is because I want as low a profile as possible. With the small table
> on a Bridgeport it doesn't make that much difference. But the low
> profile also has the advantage of being more rigid. Nevertheless it
> still will use up about 1 1/2 inches of spindle to table clearance. I
> guess what I'll do is finish the thing and if I like it correct my
> drawings and post them to the dropbox. If people like them I'll
> consider writing an article.
>    The cross slide would need to be adapted to an existing R/T. I have
> seen plans for low profile ones. The little 4 incher I have is a
> Taiwanese one that I bought considering it a semi-finished kit. It
> wasn't real accurate when I got it but I went through the whole thing
> and now it's a fine tool.
> Cheers,
> Eric

  Well that right there is a pretty good subject for a written article.

  Some of the asian import R/T's I have looked at in person were, well, 
nasty.

  If you can massage one into a decent running rotary table with only a 
little work, then that in it's own right is an accomplishment.

  I have a Myford lathe, an Aamco shaper, and a Centec 2A mill.

  The Centec is REALLY challenged for height, really needing a riser to 
do anything much larger than small model stuff with small cutters.

  It has about the same work envelope as a Sherline mill, except it has 
several hundred pounds of cast iron in it, rather than 15 pounds of 
aluminum.

  Got any sketches? I'd be interested in seeing the design.

  Cheers
   Trevor Jones

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:59:48 GMT, Trevor Jones 
wrote:

>etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 05:10:07 GMT, Trevor Jones 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>Greetings All,
>>>>I have and use a Troyke 12 inch cross slide rotary table (R/T). Before
>>>>the advent of widespread CNC milling machines these tools were
>>>>practically indispensible to mold makers and machinists making complex
>>>>parts with radii blending into straight or curved surfaces. I also
>>>>have a 4 inch rotary table. This little table is perfect for some of
>>>>the small one off parts I make but if they get too complex I either
>>>>make 'em on the CNC or use the giant Troyke. Seeing the need for a
>>>>smaller cross slide R/T  I designed and have started making a cross
>>>>slide to fit the little 4 inch R/T. It's 6 inches square because I
>>>>wanted a little more room for clamps. It occurred to me last night
>>>>that this cross slide might also be something that model makers would
>>>>like. Unlike the small cross slides available that I have seen my
>>>>design is compact and low profile. It is also square with equal travel
>>>>in both axes. Pretty much a copy of the Troyke but on a much smaller
>>>>(and lighter!) scale. I'm posting this message in this newsgroup
>>>>because it seems to me that the UK has many more people interested in
>>>>model engineering than here in the US. And I'm wondering if there
>>>>would be much of a market in the UK for plans, a kit, or a finished
>>>>product. Any ideas anybody?
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>Eric R Snow
>>>
>>> Have you seen the one that was published in Home Shop Machinist a year 
>>>or two back?
>>>
>>> I was pretty interested in programming the CNC mill at work to cut a 
>>>base for the R/T portion, and it turned into a nightmare really fast, 
>>>when the dimensions started adding up wrong.
>>>
>>> The reply from the editor was not promising either.
>>>
>>> It still looked like a decent project, just not one that could be done 
>>>relying upon the dimensions given as being accurate.
>>>
>>> The PITA part of the equation is that the really small mills don't 
>>>have the headroom for the stacked pile o bits, while the ones that do 
>>>have the room, want a little larger R/T and slides.
>>>
>>> Hell, I'd be pretty interested in a decent, low profile, smooth 
>>>turning rotary table, suitable for my Centec or on the slide of my 
>>>Myford. The small, nice ones that I have seen go by were huge money, and 
>>>the small affordable ones were not worth buying for being so rough.
>>>
>>> Best of luck getting this going. An article written and submitted to 
>>>one of the Model Engineering magazines would very likely rouse some 
>>>interest in kits, if one were to go that way.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>  Trevor Jones
>>>
>> 
>> Greetings Trevor,
>>    Thanks for the reply. One of the reasons I'm making the cross slide
>> is because I want as low a profile as possible. With the small table
>> on a Bridgeport it doesn't make that much difference. But the low
>> profile also has the advantage of being more rigid. Nevertheless it
>> still will use up about 1 1/2 inches of spindle to table clearance. I
>> guess what I'll do is finish the thing and if I like it correct my
>> drawings and post them to the dropbox. If people like them I'll
>> consider writing an article.
>>    The cross slide would need to be adapted to an existing R/T. I have
>> seen plans for low profile ones. The little 4 incher I have is a
>> Taiwanese one that I bought considering it a semi-finished kit. It
>> wasn't real accurate when I got it but I went through the whole thing
>> and now it's a fine tool.
>> Cheers,
>> Eric
>
>  Well that right there is a pretty good subject for a written article.
>
>  Some of the asian import R/T's I have looked at in person were, well, 
>nasty.
>
>  If you can massage one into a decent running rotary table with only a 
>little work, then that in it's own right is an accomplishment.
>
>  I have a Myford lathe, an Aamco shaper, and a Centec 2A mill.
>
>  The Centec is REALLY challenged for height, really needing a riser to 
>do anything much larger than small model stuff with small cutters.
>
>  It has about the same work envelope as a Sherline mill, except it has 
>several hundred pounds of cast iron in it, rather than 15 pounds of 
>aluminum.
>
>  Got any sketches? I'd be interested in seeing the design.
>
>  Cheers
>   Trevor Jones
>
Greetings Trevor,
Sketches of the cross slide or of the rotary table fixes? I have
drawings of the cross slide but am correcting them as I make the
parts. When they are complete I'll post them to the dropbox.
Eric

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

>> Got any sketches? I'd be interested in seeing the design.
>>
>> Cheers
>>  Trevor Jones
>>
> 
> Greetings Trevor,
> Sketches of the cross slide or of the rotary table fixes? I have
> drawings of the cross slide but am correcting them as I make the
> parts. When they are complete I'll post them to the dropbox.
> Eric

  Sketches of the cross slide general layout and such.

  Sketches or a rundown on the rebuild of the R/T would be nice too! :-)

  I can wait.

  If I have too. :-)

  Cheers
   Trevor Jones

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:51:29 GMT, Trevor Jones 
wrote:

>etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
>
>>> Got any sketches? I'd be interested in seeing the design.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>  Trevor Jones
>>>
>> 
>> Greetings Trevor,
>> Sketches of the cross slide or of the rotary table fixes? I have
>> drawings of the cross slide but am correcting them as I make the
>> parts. When they are complete I'll post them to the dropbox.
>> Eric
>
>  Sketches of the cross slide general layout and such.
>
>  Sketches or a rundown on the rebuild of the R/T would be nice too! :-)
>
>  I can wait.
>
>  If I have too. :-)
>
>  Cheers
>   Trevor Jones
>
Well Trevor, I can describe the R/T changes to you pretty easily.
First thing I did was to take the whole thing apart. This left me with
the table separated from the spindle. After cleaning everything I
machined a groove in the underside of the table about 3/8" wide and
1/8' deep. I then filled this groove with silicon bronze by tig
brazing. After brazing the bottom of the table was faced flat and a
groove cut into the silicon bronze 1/8" wide and .094 deep. The bottom
of the worm gear was also faced flat. The spindle was then reattached
to the table, turned so that it was square with the table, the thread
on the end chased so that it was square, and then tapped for a
threaded insert. The body of the R/T was then machined inside: it was
bored for a bronze bushing to accept the spindle, grooved for a bronze
insert that the bottom of the worm gear bears on, and a register
turned on top that fits into the groove machined into the bottom of
the table. This register and groove makes a labyrinth seal as well as
a radial register. I lapped, with Timesaver compound for soft metals,
the bronze areas and checked with bluing to make sure that there was
proper contact of the bronze and cast iron areas. This is actually
running a little longer than I thought so I'll need to come back and
finish up.
Eric

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:51:29 GMT, Trevor Jones 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Got any sketches? I'd be interested in seeing the design.
>>>>
>>>>Cheers
>>>> Trevor Jones
>>>>
>>>
>>>Greetings Trevor,
>>>Sketches of the cross slide or of the rotary table fixes? I have
>>>drawings of the cross slide but am correcting them as I make the
>>>parts. When they are complete I'll post them to the dropbox.
>>>Eric
>>
>> Sketches of the cross slide general layout and such.
>>
>> Sketches or a rundown on the rebuild of the R/T would be nice too! :-)
>>
>> I can wait.
>>
>> If I have too. :-)
>>
>> Cheers
>>  Trevor Jones
>>
> 
> Well Trevor, I can describe the R/T changes to you pretty easily.
> First thing I did was to take the whole thing apart. This left me with
> the table separated from the spindle. After cleaning everything I
> machined a groove in the underside of the table about 3/8" wide and
> 1/8' deep. I then filled this groove with silicon bronze by tig
> brazing. After brazing the bottom of the table was faced flat and a
> groove cut into the silicon bronze 1/8" wide and .094 deep. The bottom
> of the worm gear was also faced flat. The spindle was then reattached
> to the table, turned so that it was square with the table, the thread
> on the end chased so that it was square, and then tapped for a
> threaded insert. The body of the R/T was then machined inside: it was
> bored for a bronze bushing to accept the spindle, grooved for a bronze
> insert that the bottom of the worm gear bears on, and a register
> turned on top that fits into the groove machined into the bottom of
> the table. This register and groove makes a labyrinth seal as well as
> a radial register. I lapped, with Timesaver compound for soft metals,
> the bronze areas and checked with bluing to make sure that there was
> proper contact of the bronze and cast iron areas. This is actually
> running a little longer than I thought so I'll need to come back and
> finish up.
> Eric

  Thanks Eric!

  Looking forward to it!

  Souns like quite the kit build!

  Cheers
   Trevor Jones

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:31:07 GMT, Trevor Jones 
wrote:

>etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:51:29 GMT, Trevor Jones 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Got any sketches? I'd be interested in seeing the design.
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers
>>>>> Trevor Jones
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Greetings Trevor,
>>>>Sketches of the cross slide or of the rotary table fixes? I have
>>>>drawings of the cross slide but am correcting them as I make the
>>>>parts. When they are complete I'll post them to the dropbox.
>>>>Eric
>>>
>>> Sketches of the cross slide general layout and such.
>>>
>>> Sketches or a rundown on the rebuild of the R/T would be nice too! :-)
>>>
>>> I can wait.
>>>
>>> If I have too. :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>  Trevor Jones
>>>
>> 
>> Well Trevor, I can describe the R/T changes to you pretty easily.
>> First thing I did was to take the whole thing apart. This left me with
>> the table separated from the spindle. After cleaning everything I
>> machined a groove in the underside of the table about 3/8" wide and
>> 1/8' deep. I then filled this groove with silicon bronze by tig
>> brazing. After brazing the bottom of the table was faced flat and a
>> groove cut into the silicon bronze 1/8" wide and .094 deep. The bottom
>> of the worm gear was also faced flat. The spindle was then reattached
>> to the table, turned so that it was square with the table, the thread
>> on the end chased so that it was square, and then tapped for a
>> threaded insert. The body of the R/T was then machined inside: it was
>> bored for a bronze bushing to accept the spindle, grooved for a bronze
>> insert that the bottom of the worm gear bears on, and a register
>> turned on top that fits into the groove machined into the bottom of
>> the table. This register and groove makes a labyrinth seal as well as
>> a radial register. I lapped, with Timesaver compound for soft metals,
>> the bronze areas and checked with bluing to make sure that there was
>> proper contact of the bronze and cast iron areas. This is actually
>> running a little longer than I thought so I'll need to come back and
>> finish up.
>> Eric
>
>  Thanks Eric!
>
>  Looking forward to it!
>
>  Souns like quite the kit build!
>
>  Cheers
>   Trevor Jones
>
Well, here's some more. I have to back  up a little. The first work
was done on the body was to surface grind the bottom and the right
angle surface to make them flat and square. After the inside work on
top was done I turned the body over to bore and face the bottom of
said bore for a thrust bearing. I used a needle type thrust bearing
along with two washer type races made for the bearing. I made a new
nut that clamps onto the spindle threads so that the preload could be
kept where I wanted it. The spindle was threaded in the lower part to
recieve an insert. This insert is threaded .532-24 on the OD , 3/8-16
and 10-32 on the ID. It's an inch long and the 10-32 thread is about
5/16 long with the remainder the 3/8 thread. The spindle is bored from
the other end for a morse taper center. The 10-32 thread in the insert
is for using a screw to push the morse taper center out of the table
and the 3/8 thread is for a clamping stud to be threaded in. The
original table clamp was a screw that threaded through the R/T body
and pressed against the worm gear. That threaded  hole was threaded
1/4-28 and a zerk fitting installed. I machined an annular groove in
the table on center 1/8 wide and deep. Two 3/8 wide slots were
machined tn the body opposite each other and tapped 10-32 in the
bottom. These slots hold clamps that fit into the annular table
groove. After all the work so far done it was time to address the worm
assembly. Because the table position had shifted slightly I though the
worm might not contact the warm gear properly. As it turns out it was
so far out it wouldn't have contacted the worm gear properly before
any mods. So I bored the body to correct the worm center location and
bushed the bore back to size to accept the worm assembly. I made a new
split cotter to clamp the worm assembly and a new handle to turn the
screw which toghtens the cotter. Lastly I tapped another hole in the
handwheel opposite the existing hole so that an arm could be attached
to the handwheel effectively increasing the diameter of the handwheel.
This makes milling with the R/T much easier because of the increased
leverage. I did this to my 10 inch table and the 12 inch Troyke too. I
think that covers all the work I did to the thing. Now I'll never be
able to justify the time except that it was fun and the R/T is now a
fine tool and I know just how accurate it really is. The next mod is
to add an encoder to the worm assembly. I have the encoder and
readout. The encoder is a 900 line device. The R/T has a 72:1 gear
ratio. This means that with the encoder mounted to the worm and read
in quadrature the resolution will be 5 seconds. Probably not the
accuracy though. Hope you found this enlightening. When I get a new
digital camera I will take some pics and post 'em.
Eric