Jill's comment in a reply post got me thinking.

What do people mean when they think about turning a horse away for the 
winter?

field ornament with mnimla daily handling to check over?
handling and some ground work but no riding?
Light riding but nothing new?


And what are the pros and cons of turning away v keeping a young horse 'in 
work'?

Matzi

Matzi wrote:
> Jill's comment in a reply post got me thinking.
>
> What do people mean when they think about turning a horse away for the
> winter?
>
> field ornament with mnimla daily handling to check over?
> handling and some ground work but no riding?
> Light riding but nothing new?
>
>
> And what are the pros and cons of turning away v keeping a young
> horse 'in work'?
>
> Matzi

For me, and the horsemen/women I respect, it would be
Mostly : - Out in the field with good basic ground manners maintained.
No riding, but building on gaining good experiences as in its previous 
years, if the conditions are right.
This can mean short trips in a horsebox, going out and about in hand, 
experiencing an event in hand, all sorts of things - IF its right for the 
animal.
It does not hurt at all if they do none of that. But then I would expect 
that all of that was done in the previous years as part of their growing up 
process. Basic handling is basic, that is done as a matter of course.
And there are alsorts of ground exercises you can do.

Riding is HARD on young horses - both mentally and physically.
4 years old is plenty old enough.

a 3year old is not a young horse, its a baby. The potential for long term 
damage to the physiology by continued riding at this age is a risk greater 
than I would want to take, especially a big growing baby. I can think of no 
pro's except money. There is plenty to do with a baby without rushing to get 
on its back if you want to.

However being out in a field is also fine, babies need to grow, horses do 
NOT need to work.

YMMV

-- 
regards
Jill Bowis

Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

" Jill"  wrote in message 
news:7je818F355vr0U1@mid.individual.net...
> Matzi wrote:
>> Jill's comment in a reply post got me thinking.
>>
>> What do people mean when they think about turning a horse away for the
>> winter?
>>
>> field ornament with mnimla daily handling to check over?
>> handling and some ground work but no riding?
>> Light riding but nothing new?
>>
>>
>> And what are the pros and cons of turning away v keeping a young
>> horse 'in work'?
>>
>> Matzi
>
> For me, and the horsemen/women I respect, it would be
> Mostly : - Out in the field with good basic ground manners maintained.
> No riding, but building on gaining good experiences as in its previous 
> years, if the conditions are right.
> This can mean short trips in a horsebox, going out and about in hand, 
> experiencing an event in hand, all sorts of things - IF its right for the 
> animal.
> It does not hurt at all if they do none of that. But then I would expect 
> that all of that was done in the previous years as part of their growing 
> up process. Basic handling is basic, that is done as a matter of course.
> And there are alsorts of ground exercises you can do.
>
> Riding is HARD on young horses - both mentally and physically.
> 4 years old is plenty old enough.
>
> a 3year old is not a young horse, its a baby. The potential for long term 
> damage to the physiology by continued riding at this age is a risk greater 
> than I would want to take, especially a big growing baby. I can think of 
> no pro's except money. There is plenty to do with a baby without rushing 
> to get on its back if you want to.
>
> However being out in a field is also fine, babies need to grow, horses do 
> NOT need to work.
>
> YMMV

I pretty much agree with what Jill has written here.  With a 3 yr old I 
wouldn't ride it at all, but then I've never backed any of my youngsters 
until they were 4 anyway.  That's just my choice as I'm not producing them 
to sell so there's no rush to back them young. If the horse was a 4yr old 
then I'd maybe hack once or twice a week just to keep the horse ticking over 
and keeping a little bit of fitness.  I wouldn't be schooling and the 
hacking would be all about the horse enjoying the ride out.

Louise

"Ian - Louise"  wrote in message 
news:AIGdncshIJd7r0_XnZ2dnUVZ8r-dnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> " Jill"  wrote in message 
> news:7je818F355vr0U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Matzi wrote:
>>> Jill's comment in a reply post got me thinking.
>>>
>>> What do people mean when they think about turning a horse away for the
>>> winter?
>>>
>>> field ornament with mnimla daily handling to check over?
>>> handling and some ground work but no riding?
>>> Light riding but nothing new?
>>>
>>>
>>> And what are the pros and cons of turning away v keeping a young
>>> horse 'in work'?
>>>
>>> Matzi
>>
>> For me, and the horsemen/women I respect, it would be
>> Mostly : - Out in the field with good basic ground manners maintained.
>> No riding, but building on gaining good experiences as in its previous 
>> years, if the conditions are right.
>> This can mean short trips in a horsebox, going out and about in hand, 
>> experiencing an event in hand, all sorts of things - IF its right for the 
>> animal.
>> It does not hurt at all if they do none of that. But then I would expect 
>> that all of that was done in the previous years as part of their growing 
>> up process. Basic handling is basic, that is done as a matter of course.
>> And there are alsorts of ground exercises you can do.
>>
>> Riding is HARD on young horses - both mentally and physically.
>> 4 years old is plenty old enough.
>>
>> a 3year old is not a young horse, its a baby. The potential for long term 
>> damage to the physiology by continued riding at this age is a risk 
>> greater than I would want to take, especially a big growing baby. I can 
>> think of no pro's except money. There is plenty to do with a baby without 
>> rushing to get on its back if you want to.
>>
>> However being out in a field is also fine, babies need to grow, horses do 
>> NOT need to work.
>>
>> YMMV
>
> I pretty much agree with what Jill has written here.  With a 3 yr old I 
> wouldn't ride it at all, but then I've never backed any of my youngsters 
> until they were 4 anyway.  That's just my choice as I'm not producing them 
> to sell so there's no rush to back them young. If the horse was a 4yr old 
> then I'd maybe hack once or twice a week just to keep the horse ticking 
> over and keeping a little bit of fitness.  I wouldn't be schooling and the 
> hacking would be all about the horse enjoying the ride out.
>
> Louise
>
Anyone with any other ideas? :  )
Just in case anyone wants to go against the  ideal described here.

I think I'd mostly agree. I certainly wouldn't start one of mine till it was 
3 and ten take it slow but then I'm never likely to have a youngster..I know 
my limits bravery lol

I have to say though I've not seen any ill effects from the work Lilly and 
Kizzy have done. Lilly is laid back. happy in what she's asked to do and 
very quick to say when she needs a break..which she has got every few weeks. 
Her schooling has been little more than getting her to balance with a rider 
and go forward and understanding moving off the leg.

Kizzy's has been a bit faster - faster I think than I'd do but Belinda is 
schooling for other people and when they're looking to sell I guess they 
want something people can come and ride to try (which Kizzy certainly isn't 
ready for) and that has a few rosettes to show. I guess it's finding that 
middle ground between results and long term horse welfare.
I wouldn't always do things B's way with my own horse but I've not seen any 
significant issue with the work done to date.
It was good to clarify what people meant by turning away - It does seem to 
mean diff things to diff people.
Anyone welcome to judge for self - see if I'm missing anything as pics and 
video of both horses on my facebook site - even some of me jumping 
2foot!!!!!! lol
I'd welcome comments and view points just please be polite when critising - 
I happen to consider B a friend : )
had two sets of people come to look at Lilly atweekend so hopefully she'll 
find a long term home with someone looking to take her education steady very 
soon.
And hopefully Kizzy will be ready to find a new home next year - I think 
she'll make a perfect competion horse, dressage or jumping.  (but I'm biased 
I know)

Matzi

"Matzi"  wrote in message 
news:wqadnSK5bMTiAE7XnZ2dnUVZ8hCdnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>>
> Anyone with any other ideas? :  )
> Just in case anyone wants to go against the  ideal described here.
>
> I think I'd mostly agree. I certainly wouldn't start one of mine till it 
> was 3 and ten take it slow but then I'm never likely to have a 
> youngster..I know my limits bravery lol

They are fun, and a challenge.

>
> I have to say though I've not seen any ill effects from the work Lilly and 
> Kizzy have done.

Yet you have already described Lilly having broken down with lameness due to 
being worked through significant physiological changes. That IS an ill 
effect.
For me, having not seen her but reading what you have written and described, 
she is not sufficiently mature to be ridden.
With all respect to you having fun I would not ever put a relative novice 
rider on a such a baby either.
Sorry about getting the wrong end of the stick re B being a trainer/dealer - 
its just what came across, with the stories of babies being broken to be 
schooled to sell in their third year, and all the talk of selling on and 
into polo etc.
Hope the babies grow up to fulfill all their potential.
Have fun with your riding.


-- 
-- 
regards
Jill Bowis

Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

Matzi wrote:
> Anyone welcome to judge for self - see if I'm missing anything as
> pics and video of both horses on my facebook site - even some of me
> jumping 2foot!!!!!! lol
> I'd welcome comments and view points

Sorry, I meant to ask if these albums are only open to FB members who have 
already connected to you?
Or are they public?
(not a facebook expert, or signatory as yet)
:o)

-- 
regards
Jill Bowis

Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

"Jill"  wrote in message 
news:7jhpfoF34vagaU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Matzi"  wrote in message 
> news:wqadnSK5bMTiAE7XnZ2dnUVZ8hCdnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>>>
>> Anyone with any other ideas? :  )
>> Just in case anyone wants to go against the  ideal described here.
>>
>> I think I'd mostly agree. I certainly wouldn't start one of mine till it 
>> was 3 and ten take it slow but then I'm never likely to have a 
>> youngster..I know my limits bravery lol
>
> They are fun, and a challenge.
>
>>
>> I have to say though I've not seen any ill effects from the work Lilly 
>> and Kizzy have done.
>
> Yet you have already described Lilly having broken down with lameness due 
> to being worked through significant physiological changes. That IS an ill 
> effect.
> For me, having not seen her but reading what you have written and 
> described, she is not sufficiently mature to be ridden.
> With all respect to you having fun I would not ever put a relative novice 
> rider on a such a baby either.
> Sorry about getting the wrong end of the stick re B being a 
> trainer/dealer - its just what came across, with the stories of babies 
> being broken to be schooled to sell in their third year, and all the talk 
> of selling on and into polo etc.
> Hope the babies grow up to fulfill all their potential.
> Have fun with your riding.

I've been riding 25 years. hardly a novice. Just not experienced with 
backing and training very young horses.

Lilly's injury wasn't from riding...she did it in the field. Physio 
described her muscles and bones having a varied growth spirt which put a 
strain on her back and shoulders and after 4 days in the field when she came 
back to work was lame...so clearly did it in the field...prob rolling or 
dodging being kicked by the bossy Tinky. Physio came out and was happy with 
her progress...jsut advised no lunging for a while (hasn't really been 
lunged since). B left her out of work longer than the physio advised because 
she wasn't totally convinced it wasn't sometihng more serous but  Lilly's 
done just fine.

I'm not sure if I haven't explained myself well or...
Lilly isn't and never will be a polo pony.
4 year old April is being introduced to polo as in a mallet being swung 
round her and knocked on the floor...hardly anf diff from into a horse to 
cars and plastic bags o nthe floor etc. NOT bombing arounf the field and 
neck reinging at high speed!

I hope that clarifies some issues. while I personally wouldn't have back 
Lilly till this year, otherwise I have no problem with how she has been 
worked over all. And while I might be a 'novice' with youngster after 25 
years around horses I hope I do know how to recognise distress, pain etc.

And that for all B is a friend and I'm eternally grateful for her allowing 
me to ride her horse and gain new experience, if I had any question about 
what she did I would (and have) said.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was a total new comer to horses and so 
wouldn't know if one was being mistreated or badly trained.

All I was looking to do if find out what people do with their youngsters, 
the pros and cons , the ideal and where people may sacrifice the ideal in 
the name of practicality.

Matzi

Some are viewable by friends of friends only. Others are there for anyone to 
see.

I'm happy to accept as a 'friend' anyone from here who asks..never turn down 
a horsey collegue lol


" Jill"  wrote in message 
news:7jj45tF35n1fcU1@mid.individual.net...
> Matzi wrote:
>> Anyone welcome to judge for self - see if I'm missing anything as
>> pics and video of both horses on my facebook site - even some of me
>> jumping 2foot!!!!!! lol
>> I'd welcome comments and view points
>
> Sorry, I meant to ask if these albums are only open to FB members who have 
> already connected to you?
> Or are they public?
> (not a facebook expert, or signatory as yet)
> :o)
>
> -- 
> regards
> Jill Bowis
>
> Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
> Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
> Seasonal Farm Food
> http://www.kintaline.co.uk
>