Please,

I have a Gardner 3LW that has lain outside for a long, long time.  I
have the head off OK, but I cannot get the block to come up off the
crankcase.   I suspect that at least one piston is seized solidly in
its liner.  The engine will not turn at all.

Using wedges I have managed to get the block up about 22mm all round.

Yes, I have poured diesel into the combustion chambers and left it
there for over a week.

Here's my idea:  I will make a plate that will bolt unto the top of
the block.   Over the centre of each cylinder, I will drill a hole
down through this plate.  Over this hole I will weld a nut.  Through
the nut I will thread a set screw.   This screw will pass down until
it meets the top of the piston.   As it tightens down it will force
the block off.

I will do this simultaneously for each cylinder.  Obviously I will put
plates on top of each piston so as to spread the load and I will force
each piston down simultaneously.

I do not care about damaging the liners, or the the pistons.  All
these will be renewed, but I do care about the crankcase and the
crankshaft.

Is this a good idea ?   Are there dangers in it ?   Any other
suggestions.

I make more wedges and continue, but I am worried about breaking bits
off the block casting.  Besides, it is painfully slow.

Thanks a lot.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 05:13:31 -0700 (PDT), snark
 wrote:

>Please,
>
>I have a Gardner 3LW that has lain outside for a long, long time.  I
>have the head off OK, but I cannot get the block to come up off the
>crankcase.   I suspect that at least one piston is seized solidly in
>its liner.  The engine will not turn at all.
>
>Using wedges I have managed to get the block up about 22mm all round.
>
>Yes, I have poured diesel into the combustion chambers and left it
>there for over a week.
>
>Here's my idea:  I will make a plate that will bolt unto the top of
>the block.   Over the centre of each cylinder, I will drill a hole
>down through this plate.  Over this hole I will weld a nut.  Through
>the nut I will thread a set screw.   This screw will pass down until
>it meets the top of the piston.   As it tightens down it will force
>the block off.
>
>I will do this simultaneously for each cylinder.  Obviously I will put
>plates on top of each piston so as to spread the load and I will force
>each piston down simultaneously.
>
>I do not care about damaging the liners, or the the pistons.  All
>these will be renewed, but I do care about the crankcase and the
>crankshaft.
>
>Is this a good idea ?   Are there dangers in it ?   Any other
>suggestions.
>
>I make more wedges and continue, but I am worried about breaking bits
>off the block casting.  Besides, it is painfully slow.
>
>Thanks a lot.


I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I broke the pistons up
in the end, only way I could get things to move. Engine's still
running fine with new pistons & a re-bore.


If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.' Catherine Aird

I've heard lots of good reports about Diesel being a good penetrating  oil, 
but for my money nothing beats Plus Gas.

Mostly though, IMHO you have not left it nearly long enough. Any penetrating 
lubricant needs time to work & a week isn't enough.. Heat and cooling cycles 
are important too, so a good gas torch to get it all nice & hot followed by 
clouds of smoke as you douse the pistons in old sump oil then take a turn on 
the jack screws, shut the door & walk away! Repeat as necessary ...........

regards,

Kim Siddorn

"Duracell Bunny"  wrote in message 
news:thj9b418l6i99co05ffda0m6kblld58jto@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 05:13:31 -0700 (PDT), snark
>  wrote:
>
>>Please,
>>
>>I have a Gardner 3LW that has lain outside for a long, long time.  I
>>have the head off OK, but I cannot get the block to come up off the
>>crankcase.   I suspect that at least one piston is seized solidly in
>>its liner.  The engine will not turn at all.
>>
>>Using wedges I have managed to get the block up about 22mm all round.
>>
>>Yes, I have poured diesel into the combustion chambers and left it
>>there for over a week.
>>
>>Here's my idea:  I will make a plate that will bolt unto the top of
>>the block.   Over the centre of each cylinder, I will drill a hole
>>down through this plate.  Over this hole I will weld a nut.  Through
>>the nut I will thread a set screw.   This screw will pass down until
>>it meets the top of the piston.   As it tightens down it will force
>>the block off.
>>
>>I will do this simultaneously for each cylinder.  Obviously I will put
>>plates on top of each piston so as to spread the load and I will force
>>each piston down simultaneously.
>>
>>I do not care about damaging the liners, or the the pistons.  All
>>these will be renewed, but I do care about the crankcase and the
>>crankshaft.
>>
>>Is this a good idea ?   Are there dangers in it ?   Any other
>>suggestions.
>>
>>I make more wedges and continue, but I am worried about breaking bits
>>off the block casting.  Besides, it is painfully slow.
>>
>>Thanks a lot.
>
>
> I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I broke the pistons up
> in the end, only way I could get things to move. Engine's still
> running fine with new pistons & a re-bore.
>
>
> If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible 
> warning.' Catherine Aird
>

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 05:13:31 -0700 (PDT), snark
 wrote:

>Please,
>
>I have a Gardner 3LW that has lain outside for a long, long time.  I
>have the head off OK, but I cannot get the block to come up off the
>crankcase.   I suspect that at least one piston is seized solidly in
>its liner.  The engine will not turn at all.
>
>Using wedges I have managed to get the block up about 22mm all round.
>
>Yes, I have poured diesel into the combustion chambers and left it
>there for over a week.
>
>Here's my idea:  I will make a plate that will bolt unto the top of
>the block.   Over the centre of each cylinder, I will drill a hole
>down through this plate.  Over this hole I will weld a nut.  Through
>the nut I will thread a set screw.   This screw will pass down until
>it meets the top of the piston.   As it tightens down it will force
>the block off.
>
>I will do this simultaneously for each cylinder.  Obviously I will put
>plates on top of each piston so as to spread the load and I will force
>each piston down simultaneously.
>
What about hardwood blocks, with the grain vertical, 1/2" or so longer
than the piston/head space, tighten the head down onto them? Then when
you've moved things a bit, head off ,add some packing & repeat.
As Kim said, more soaking first.
An impact wrench on the head nuts would speed the job up no end.
Hydraulic rams under your plate would be better than your jacking
screw, but not something you can make at home.

Tim

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 05:13:31 -0700 (PDT), snark
 wrote:

>Please,
>
>I have a Gardner 3LW that has lain outside for a long, long time.  I
>have the head off OK, but I cannot get the block to come up off the
>crankcase.   I suspect that at least one piston is seized solidly in
>its liner.  The engine will not turn at all.
>
>Using wedges I have managed to get the block up about 22mm all round.
>
>Yes, I have poured diesel into the combustion chambers and left it
>there for over a week.
>
>Here's my idea:  I will make a plate that will bolt unto the top of
>the block.   Over the centre of each cylinder, I will drill a hole
>down through this plate.  Over this hole I will weld a nut.  Through
>the nut I will thread a set screw.   This screw will pass down until
>it meets the top of the piston.   As it tightens down it will force
>the block off.
>
>I will do this simultaneously for each cylinder.  Obviously I will put
>plates on top of each piston so as to spread the load and I will force
>each piston down simultaneously.
>
>I do not care about damaging the liners, or the the pistons.  All
>these will be renewed, but I do care about the crankcase and the
>crankshaft.
>
>Is this a good idea ?   Are there dangers in it ?   Any other
>suggestions.
>
Another thought about your 'plate' is that it won't take much point
force to distort a plate unless it's very thick, then it'll probably
bind onto the studs and you'll have a different removal problem. Some
sort of beam across the studs would be better from that point of view.

Tim

On 26 Aug, 13:13, snark  wrote:
> Please,
>
> I have a Gardner 3LW that has lain outside for a long, long time.  I
> have the head off OK, but I cannot get the block to come up off the
> crankcase.   I suspect that at least one piston is seized solidly in
> its liner.  The engine will not turn at all.
>
> Using wedges I have managed to get the block up about 22mm all round.
>
> Yes, I have poured diesel into the combustion chambers and left it
> there for over a week.
>
> Here's my idea:  I will make a plate that will bolt unto the top of
> the block.   Over the centre of each cylinder, I will drill a hole
> down through this plate.  Over this hole I will weld a nut.  Through
> the nut I will thread a set screw.   This screw will pass down until
> it meets the top of the piston.   As it tightens down it will force
> the block off.
>
> I will do this simultaneously for each cylinder.  Obviously I will put
> plates on top of each piston so as to spread the load and I will force
> each piston down simultaneously.
>
> I do not care about damaging the liners, or the the pistons.  All
> these will be renewed, but I do care about the crankcase and the
> crankshaft.
>
> Is this a good idea ?   Are there dangers in it ?   Any other
> suggestions.
>
> I make more wedges and continue, but I am worried about breaking bits
> off the block casting.  Besides, it is painfully slow.
>
> Thanks a lot.

instead of trying to remove the block, extract the pistons by removing
the big end bearings and easing the pistons down and out one at a
time. this is what I did with a sized up Lister FR. The liners where
impossible to pull so I lapped the old ones and ran at that.