Hi all

I have a problem with my AV1 fuel pump or govorner.

I took the engine apart to fit it through the hatch into the engine
room of my barge and I, foolishly?, took off the fuel pump. Everything
has gone back together, I can get the engine to start by pushing the
rod that goes into the fuel pump (sorry, remembering the names of
these things seems beyond me today) and it either runs very slowly, ie
barely running or runs away. Have I messed up the fuel pump settings
by unbolting it or do I have a govorner problem? One of the bolts that
holds down the pump has a bracket against which there is a stop for
the "at rest" possition. The adjustment bolt for this stop is "factory
set" and I suspect this is the cause of my problems. The manual states
that misadjustment of this may cause the engine to run away when not
under load.

Any thoughts would be gratefully received, and if anyone is, or knows,
a simpathetic engineer in the Maidenhead, Berkshire area please get in
touch!

many thanks

Matt

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:19:51 -0700 (PDT), matt.biss@gmail.com wrote:

>Hi all
>
>I have a problem with my AV1 fuel pump or govorner.
>
>I took the engine apart to fit it through the hatch into the engine
>room of my barge and I, foolishly?, took off the fuel pump. Everything
>has gone back together, I can get the engine to start by pushing the
>rod that goes into the fuel pump (sorry, remembering the names of
>these things seems beyond me today) and it either runs very slowly, ie
>barely running or runs away. Have I messed up the fuel pump settings
>by unbolting it or do I have a govorner problem? One of the bolts that
>holds down the pump has a bracket against which there is a stop for
>the "at rest" possition. The adjustment bolt for this stop is "factory
>set" and I suspect this is the cause of my problems. The manual states
>that misadjustment of this may cause the engine to run away when not
>under load.
>
>Any thoughts would be gratefully received, and if anyone is, or knows,
>a simpathetic engineer in the Maidenhead, Berkshire area please get in
>touch!
>
>many thanks
>
>Matt

Is it a Series I or Series II engine?

Series I has the injector horizontal, Series II has the injector at 45 Degrees.

I'll have a look at the manual when I get home to see if there is any settings
info.

The rack will open the pump one way and close it the other.

The governor arm should hold the throttle (rack) in the full throttle position
when the engine is stopped.

AV1 Series I rack/governor arm picture here:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/PetterData/PetterAV1.htm

Note the position of the pump label which shows which way round it is fitted.

The Series II engines had their injector and pump on opposite sides IIRC.

 
Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK
peterforbes@prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.eu

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:00:34 +0100, Peter A Forbes 
wrote:

>Is it a Series I or Series II engine?
>
>Series I has the injector horizontal, Series II has the injector at 45 Degrees.
>
>I'll have a look at the manual when I get home to see if there is any settings
>info.
>
>The rack will open the pump one way and close it the other.
>
>The governor arm should hold the throttle (rack) in the full throttle position
>when the engine is stopped.
>
>AV1 Series I rack/governor arm picture here:
>
>http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/PetterData/PetterAV1.htm
>
>Note the position of the pump label which shows which way round it is fitted.
>
>The Series II engines had their injector and pump on opposite sides IIRC.
>

Series II AVA1 picture here, showing the pump arrangement:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/PetterData/PetterAVA1.htm


Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK
peterforbes@prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.eu

Hi Peter thanks for you help.

It is a series II

>The rack will open the pump one way and close it the other.
>
> >The governor arm should hold the throttle (rack) in the full throttle position
> >when the engine is stopped.

Well there's the problem, the governor is flapping around not touching
the rack until the engine speed picks up and then it flys across to
hold the engine at full revs.

Does that suggest a broken or missing spring on the governor?

Matt

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 06:57:57 -0700 (PDT), matt.biss@gmail.com wrote:

>
>Hi Peter thanks for you help.
>
>It is a series II
>
>>The rack will open the pump one way and close it the other.
>>
>> >The governor arm should hold the throttle (rack) in the full throttle position
>> >when the engine is stopped.
>
>Well there's the problem, the governor is flapping around not touching
>the rack until the engine speed picks up and then it flys across to
>hold the engine at full revs.
>
>Does that suggest a broken or missing spring on the governor?
>
>Matt

Might be, or the other thing is a missing rack spring on the pump.

Listers have mechanical coupling between the governor and pump rack, Petters
appear to have had something similar but I can't tell by the small image I have
on the screen.

Generally, with the CAV or Bryce label towards you, moving the rack to your left
increases fuel and moving to the right decreases it.

The pump should have a largish spring on the end of the rack holding it at the
full fuel position. The governor should push against that spring to shut the
fuel off as the speed rises.


Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK
peterforbes@prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.eu

I need to go and have a look, armed with all this info. Will report
back

Matt

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:27:39 -0700 (PDT), matt.biss@gmail.com wrote:

>I need to go and have a look, armed with all this info. Will report
>back
>
>Matt
>

The AVA Series II manual states:

" On replacing the pump, make sure that its securing set-screws are returned to
their proper places. The right-hand screw projects into a groove on the priming
shaft to retain it in position."

Have a look at:

http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk/Misc/AVA1Pump.jpg

The special setscrews are 3 and 3a.

I don't think that priming shaft would move with the screws out, but it would be
worth checking to make sure the screws are engaged correctly.

Peter
--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Email: diesel@easynet.co.uk
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel
http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk
http://www.oldengine.co.uk

Hi Peter

Thanks for that, im not sure where 3A goes. as there are only 2 holes,
the shorter one (2)goes in the left side of the pump and the longer
one (3) goes into the right hand and engages with a slot on the
priming lever to hold it in possition. At least that was how mine came
apart!

I have been down to the boat and had a look this AM and as far as I
can see it apears that the pump is working in reverse!

At rest the governor is not in contact with the rack so that should be
full fuel
as engine speed picks up the governor arm pushes on the rack (to the
right) to reduce the fuel flow (the spring on the rack is there and
the pump is the correct way around)

what happens is that I have to push the rack in manually a bit to get
the thing started and then as the engine speed picks up, the governor
pushes the rack right over to the right and the engine runs away.

Could the pump have been reassembled incorrectly in a way that could
pruduce this fault.

All this conjecture assumes that the governor is working correctly and
the pump works in the normal way ie rack right for less fuel and rack
left for more

Matt

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 02:31:53 -0700 (PDT), matt.biss@gmail.com wrote:

>Hi Peter
>
>Thanks for that, im not sure where 3A goes. as there are only 2 holes,
>the shorter one (2)goes in the left side of the pump and the longer
>one (3) goes into the right hand and engages with a slot on the
>priming lever to hold it in possition. At least that was how mine came
>apart!
>
>I have been down to the boat and had a look this AM and as far as I
>can see it apears that the pump is working in reverse!
>
>At rest the governor is not in contact with the rack so that should be
>full fuel
>as engine speed picks up the governor arm pushes on the rack (to the
>right) to reduce the fuel flow (the spring on the rack is there and
>the pump is the correct way around)
>
>what happens is that I have to push the rack in manually a bit to get
>the thing started and then as the engine speed picks up, the governor
>pushes the rack right over to the right and the engine runs away.
>
>Could the pump have been reassembled incorrectly in a way that could
>pruduce this fault.
>
>All this conjecture assumes that the governor is working correctly and
>the pump works in the normal way ie rack right for less fuel and rack
>left for more
>
>Matt

Was the engine seen running before you took the pump off?

If the helix on the element is reversed then the control will be a problem.

  
Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK
peterforbes@prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk
http://www.prepair.eu

No, I didnt run it first, and am now seriously regretting it.

Can you point me in the direction of some pictures of a brice pump
exploded. This is sounding like i need to find someone to overhaul the
pump, can you recomend anyone or is it quite feasable DIY job (I am
good with fiddly things). The manual has little to say on the subject
or the pump other than not to dismantle.

The manual I have is for a series I. Do you have a copy, i could scan
and send you a .pdf if it is useful.

cheers

Matt